everybody to another episode of the Men's Sexual Mastery podcast where we are supporting our brothers awakening and empowering and aligning themselves into their fullest sexual potential, stepping into the men they came here to be. I'm joined here today by my fellow Co host and Co founder Ian Hawks as well as my brother Mark Holman. Mark, it's great to have you on the show today. Welcome, brother. Yeah, thanks man. I'm excited to dive in. Yeah.
And so for anyone listening in, Mark is a men's holistic health and testosterone optimization coach. He is the founder of Unchained, a men's online support community that is helping men reclaim their holistic male testosterone optimization and stepping into the leadership and the the masculinity that is our birthright. And Mark, I'd love to just start by passing out things to you to share a little bit about what you do and what brought you into
this work. Yeah. So a little bit about what I do mentalistic health. So the main thing that I focus on is testosterone and how I do that is through using functional blood work. So I address the root cause, like I was telling you guys a little bit before this of we're not using like TRT or anything like that. We're addressing the actual root cause as to why a man's testosterone might be low, why a man's health, energy, vitality are all out of whack.
And we're addressing that. And how I do that is through using blood work and analyzing that and seeing how all the different pieces fit together. One what like nutrient deficiencies there might be, if there's gut health issues, if organs like the thyroid are dysfunctional, All of these things like the body is such a complex Organism. Looking at the different systems, how they're functioning and then optimizing for that and how I got into this, just my own
journey. I used to work at 9:00 to 5:00 as an engineer and I was just like, I hated it every second of it. I was depressed, I was lonely. I had low testosterone, all of the symptoms of it, like low energy, everything I had. And so I know what it feels like with low testosterone and just not feeling masculine, not having any type of masculine essence or potency. And so now on the other side of that, I know what it's like to like be in masculine leadership and have high testosterone.
And I just want every man on the planet to experience that and feel that because there's so much power that comes from it. When your health, your hormones are all locked in. And then you have the embodiment piece and the personal development, sexual mastery side of things to then plug into and just become like the fullest expression of man that you can, you can be. Yeah, brother.
Well, celebrating you, honoring you for stepping into that work and into that leadership, you know, assisting so many men. I was curious to ask, you know, there's a a bit of an epidemic that I just for anyone who's tuning in here that they may not be aware of with testosterone and can you speak a little bit
about that? Yeah. So the quote, there's a quote that goes, I think it's a 20 year old today has the same testosterone levels as a 67 year old in the year 2000. So that just illustrates the decline of testosterone and just how men are showing up as well As for the factors at play, it's holistic, right? There's tons, there's tons of them. The main ones we can boil down to I think are men are a lot more stressed, a lot more stressed out.
They're working these nine to five jobs in cubicles doing things that they necessarily don't really want to do. They're not connected to their purpose and that creates a sense of dis ease and stress within their body. And that can up regulate cortisol, which is going to trash testosterone levels. Sleep.
Men aren't sleeping. People in general just aren't sleeping as well as deeply due to the junk light that's around everywhere, the stress as well that's playing into that poor nutritional habits just like not taking care of care of themselves. And then we can go more into the societal aspects of almost this war on masculinity and calling
masculinity toxic. And from a young age, boys are told being a man and being manly is wrong and how that is implicating on their behavior and them being more passive. And when you're more passive, like testosterone operates on a positive feedback. If you're more passive, you let people cross your boundaries, that's going to lower your
testosterone. Rather, if you're a strong, assertive, dominant man, that's going to not only produce more testosterone, but it's also what makes testosterone as well. Yeah. Can you speak a little more to that? I was curious to hear you said a positive feedback loop. Is that what you called it? Could you could you actually speak a little more about that? Yeah. So it's essentially like twofold. Men with higher testosterone do habits and do things that create more testosterone.
So let's we can use the the passive versus assertive example. A man who's more passive, he's probably gonna like on average, he's gonna have lower testosterone levels. Therefore he's not going to have the ability, the the physiological prerequisite to have confidence to have self worth, to then assert himself, to assert boundaries, to hold up boundaries. And therefore that's a negative feedback loop.
Like when you get when you get a boundary crossed, when you're more passive and you know, inside like I, I could have done something different there. I could have, I could have spoken up and you don't. I feel like a lot of us know that feeling. I was just like just constrictive and there's a lot of different things that are going on, but that is that negative feedback loop of testosterone starting to decrease as well.
So on the flip side of that, a man who's confident, who's assertive, just if his testosterone levels are base level higher, he's going to have more confidence. He's going to feel more able to assert himself or have a create a confrontation, have an opinion that might be disagreed with, but he has more confidence in his self, more self assertiveness so that he's more willing to to do something about it. And then you know the feeling of that as well. Like you assert yourself, you
hold a boundary. It's like, fuck yeah, like no one can can cross me. You feel kind of that like I'm untouchable, that then it's the positive feedback loop that tells your body that we're producing more. This is the type of man that we're, we are. This is the type of life that we live. And that makes the the positive feedback loop go and produce even more. Yeah, well, I love that you're bringing in the mindset piece around this too.
I can really sense everything you're talking about is so is so holistic. And yeah, I, I love that there's nothing missed, you know, in this approach that you're speaking to. I'm curious for, for the average guy, let's say that comes to you that, you know, let's say he's got his sleep routine down, he's his stress levels are, you know, maintained. He's on purpose, he's working out, he's got a good nutrition, he's eating well, he's doing high intensity training and everything else.
When you do the blood work with these guys or when guys come into your training program, what would you say are the most common areas that he actually could use more assistance in and what what do you usually bring to guys who are kind of already at a a solid baseline? Yeah, that's a really good
question. And what I see a lot is absorption issues, especially for the guys who, like, I'm doing everything right and like I'm eating clean and I'm eating all the right foods, get into the blood work. And I see like, maybe their cholesterol is low because they're not able to absorb and digest the fats in their food.
Like they might eat tons of eggs, but they're not absorbing that and therefore they're not getting the nutrients, they're not getting the prerequisites to actually produce testosterone. So that's a big one that I see is like the lack of absorption, which could be caused by either like a gut infection, like a SIBO, candida mold, something like that, or just again, not having the adequate nutrients. Deficiencies in zinc and B12 can
create low stomach acid. And then if you have low stomach acid, you're not going to be able to digest protein, digest the nutrients that come in the foods. And that's that's probably the biggest one that I see pretty consistently. Mark, when you're speaking to looking at blood work in that sense is would if somebody had like high total testosterone levels but low free testosterone levels, is that something that would also clue you into an
absorption issue? Potentially. So I feel like a lot of the questions that you're going to ask, I'm going to say it depends because it does. So potentially, yeah, it could be a nutrient deficiency based on absorption. Usually when free levels are low, it's because SHBG, sex hormone binding globulin is high. And that could be high due to a whole host of reasons. It's produced in the liver. So there's a lot of liver connection with that.
So if the liver is a little bit out of whack, like if someone's drinking, that goes in hand in hand with the absorption issues as well. Bile is produced in the liver and bile is needed to absorb fats. So there's a lot of in interconnectivity with that nutrient deficiencies as well. So like if you're a division in vitamin D, that's not really an absorption thing. That's more of like a lifestyle sunlight thing, but then also making sure your magnesium status is, is adequate too.
So I'm just like branching off all these different different tangents based on that one question and short answer like yes, but long answer there's a lot more interconnectivity as to like maybe why? Yeah, I appreciate that root cause approach that you're taking and it certainly does require a lot of a lot of asterisks and further investigations. So appreciate that you're doing
that with men. It's, you know, my partner's a naturopathic Dr. and one of the things that that she often says is libido and our sexual health is directly related and a result of our overall health and vitality.
And I, I think that our hormone levels and those markers in our blood work are, can also be representative of what's going on behind the scenes and can, can require a deeper dive into repair and adjusting certain diet or lifestyle approaches or incorporating other means of, of healing to, to actually prime the body to, to be in a state to hold a higher sexual health. Is that, yeah. Does that like feel true in your work? Yeah, 100%.
Like tapping on that too. You can see someone maybe have high total testosterone and high free testosterone, but they still have a low libido. That could be due to the the balance of all the other things. So like estradiol, estrogen levels and prolactin levels, if those two are also really high as well, the balance can be thrown off and they can experience the low testosterone symptoms like the lack of libido, maybe poor erection quality as well.
So it's like, again, there's just like another, there's like continually deeper and deeper layers to this. Like most people, they just look at total testosterone. They don't know about free. Then you can look at free and then you think you stopped there, but then it's like, OK, what about SHBG? What about prolactin? What about estradiol? We're getting a little bit technical here, but it's about the just like driving home the point of it's the whole picture. It's holistic.
It's like everything. You can just look at one marker in isolation and conclude from that. You need to see the whole thing. Yeah, And just to hop in here too, just for our listeners tuning in, you know, it would be a disservice to not mention, of course, the effects, the correlation between testosterone and your sexual health. So I'll name a few. And Mark, I'd love to just hear any additional riffs you have as an expert in this.
You know, I think the biggest one most guys know is obviously just confidence and, you know, feeling well and feeling that assertiveness, that positive feedback loop. You spoke to libido, the production of nitric oxide and increased vascular, you know, increased direction, quality sperm production. Are there any others you would throw into their mark that in ways that testosterone can optimize your sex life? Yeah, energy levels.
So like if you work a nine to five or just a normal job or even as an entrepreneur, you come home and you're exhausted. Like that's going to impact your sexual health as well. You're not going to have the desire. You might have the desire, but like it fades because you're just like, I can't, I don't have the energy to even get up and go to go pee or whatever. So like that's a that's a big
one there. Yeah. Confidence was, it was a big one too, just like self worth, like maybe that desire isn't there because of insecurity that that you might have coming from like a different, different ones there. Yeah. I think those from the sexual health lens, I think those are pretty comprehensive. Yeah. And I was curious, Mark, if so, if someone were to step into your program and into what you do and what you offer, what is
the process look like? So let's back up again to let's say that guy who kind of has a pretty standard baseline. He's health conscious, he's fit, he's doing all these things. And you mentioned those markers that may be off. What would the process look like if he were to start working with you? And I I believe you offer a free blood analysis right to begin. And then how would you guide that man along the path? Yeah. So like I said, it all starts with blood work.
If they have blood work, they come in and I'll be able to look at it and tell them like this, this and this, and then come up with a protocol that's specific to them. But yeah, all starts with blood work. Comprehensive panel. It's not just hormones, it's not just what's your testosterone at. It's literally like 50 plus markers, sometimes 6065 plus.
Just getting a really comprehensive view of what's going on with this person's health from a foundational level, holistically, all the different systems. And then from that developed training, lifestyle, supplementation, nutrition based on what gaps he has. So it's very like precise. It's not just like, this is my dogma. I'm a carnivore. So like everyone has to do carnivore. I'm a carnivore coach. Like, no, not at all. Because for some people that might not work.
Some people, they might have hemochromatosis and if they eat a ton of red meat, their iron goes through the roof and they just can't handle that. That's just like one example. So it's really just finding what that person needs exactly where they're at in their life, their stress levels, their goals, their Physiology, their biology, like even their psychology, all of that, it's factored in. And then we come up with this protocol that's very clear, very precise.
And the only like the only way that they don't get results is if they don't do it. So like I'm pretty confident in that because it's based on them. It's, it's pretty clear. So then I create the like structure and systems to ensure that they do do it. So like if usually if someone comes into my world like and they join the program and they have the like application and the agency to do it, there's no way they're not going to get a result.
Yeah. And do you do panels like every couple months and things like that just to be checking in on all those levels? Yeah, depends on the person at least like a start and a finish. I like to do every six months. Yeah, six months. So I do also like midway through. So like we'll run through initial protocol, see how that goes, Check, check back in. Usually things have improved and then we can be a little bit more specific and customized based on what that person wants.
So usually it's like phase one, optimize health foundationally. And then phase two, it's like go hard on hormones, whether that's like specific supplementation, like leaning more into the leadership side of things and like the high tea lifestyle and the the competition and assertiveness and that that side of things, the embodiment side of things to just really just blow, blow the top off. Mark, you mentioned supplements
there. Could you speak to what some of your supplement protocols or some of your favorite supplements are? Yeah. So I find it really interesting that that's the biggest question that I get. Like what supplements do I take for testosterone optimization? Like everyone's asked me that studies have shown that like supplements are only going to give you 10 to 20% increase. So very, they do have a place.
And then coming back to the question and I, I like supplements like I'm, I'm not saying that they're, they're worthless, but there's a lot more at play. But also with this, like within this, there's so much just even within the supplement conversation, we can talk for, for hours. First off, it's like you need to supplement with what your body needs. So zinc is, some people say zinc's an amazing test booster. If you're not deficient in zinc, it's not going to do shit for
you because you're fine already. The only reason why it increases testosterone is if it's deficient. Yeah. And if you're overdoing it with something like zinc, that can actually have a detrimental effect to, I think it's calcium levels. Or. Copper, yeah, it'll throw off copper levels and other micro micronutrients like magnesium and calcium are similar to that. Like all these nutrients, if you over supplement, they can throw the balance of something else off. So that's a really important
thing to note. Like does your body need this? How do you know that you do bloods? And then you also have to know what the supplement does. So a lot of people talk about Tong Cat Alley like I love Tong Cat alley. I've had great results with that. Why most people use it and use it is because they just it's AT booster. But in reality, what it does is it it helps with the stress
mediate mediated response. So if someone's like really stressed out, that's where Tongkat could be really good for that person. If someone has a stress management and levels fine, they take Tom Katali, they might not get the the boost that they wanted. So it's really being intelligent with the supplementation. It's being precise with that, not just like throwing the whole cabinet list at at you and just see what sticks. That might work because one of the one or two of those your
body might actually need. But then you just don't really know you don't know what worked. And then going even deeper on that, the supplement industry wildly unregulated. So you can get, again, with Tom Katali, you can get a Tong Katali product, but if it's shit quality, it's not going to have any of the active ingredient that's actually doing the thing that increases your testosterone.
So making sure these ingredients are high quality, they're standardized for the active ingredient that's like studied in studies. So there's a little bit of like research that someone has to do or like obviously I know all this stuff. So working with a professional that knows how to properly supplement with the right things based on what that person actually needs. Yeah. And source too, right, Those
connections. Yeah. Yeah. I had a question here, Mark, about your perspective on semen retention. At Men's Sexual Mastery, we like to use the word semen intention, not retention, because there can be extreme cases of problems that come up with retention. But just in general, do you see a correlation, you know, in your work and your metrics with guys conserving their semen and their testosterone levels?
Yeah. So there's actually a study that was done that showed semen retention or intention for a week and then on the 5th day there was 100% increase in testosterone. I don't really think that that study's that high quality, but it's kind of interesting to see that after a few days of the boost was pretty, pretty high.
I think just from I can break this down from like a science level of let's take the the typical guy who's not semen, not doing semen retention, he's probably watching porn and he's probably ejaculating, you know, if if not every day, like let's
say three times a week. So physiologically, when you're consistently ejaculating, something called prolactin goes really high and prolactin lowers testosterone, it creates a lower Dr. lower motivation, can create brain fog, can create that just like, you know, after you ejaculate a man just like, OK, cool, I want to go to bed now. Like think about that consistently elevated. So you're going to get that same. That's going to be your baseline if you're consistently ejaculating.
And then also from a neurotransmitter perspective, when you're ejaculating alone and using porn and masturbation, that dump of dopamine and skyrocket of prolactin is a lot more exaggerated than if you were having sex with a partner. So like that's a key distinction there as well based on the neurotransmitters. And then when dopamine gets crashed through porn, through consistent masturbation, that's like key for drive and motivation and dopamine and
testosterone heavily correlated. So if you're dumping your dopamine, testosterone's going to follow and it's going to be low as well. And then speaking anecdotally, so I went through a breakup about a year ago and then after that, like two months after that, I went into like a semen retention. And let's say that was maybe in December. And then I did a test in February, and that's when my testosterone was the highest. I don't think there was the sole reason, but it was a
contributing factor. And then also anecdotally, how I was feeling like again, without that consistent dump of dopamine, without the rise and prolactin, I was able to use more of that energy and recirculate it back into myself. And I just felt like AI felt like a fucking beast. Like my driving motivation was at all time highs, my libido was like through the roof, I was crushing in business. Like every aspect of my life was just way better.
And there's a lot of other things that were at play as well. But it it is something that I would recommend. And I do feel like there's tons and tons of value. I don't think the science is really there yet. It's because it's like more of an esoteric practice and getting that studied might be a little bit difficult. But I think just because this is my kind of gripe with the scientific community as well as like just because there's only anecdotal evidence doesn't mean
that it's not true. Like maybe there's not a peer reviewed study on this. It doesn't mean that it's not true. Like the, our capability of understanding and seeing and experiencing everything in the universe is, is where we get like 1%. So thinking that just because there's no peer reviewed study on it doesn't mean that it's true. Like I think that's kind of crazy. So anecdotally, I think there's a lot of evidence. You talk to anyone who's done it, they're like, bro, it's
amazing. And I think that's that's enough. Yeah, yeah. And that's AI. Appreciate those shares. And just as a brother who is devoted to understanding the science, you know the whole holistic picture. Anecdotally, I would just be curious if you were to guess based on your own personal experience, what percentage it, let's say if 10 to 20% of your testosterone levels or your masculine embodiment is due to supplements supplementation.
If you were to throw semen retention into that, what what kind of a category would it be similar to that or what would you rank that at? Yeah, that's an interesting one. I haven't really thought too much about that. I think if you're, I think there's a lot of intention that needs to go into it as well. If you're just doing it just to do it, maybe percentage is a little bit lower.
But if you're very intentional with it and like actively recirculating that energy into other things, like intentionally back into yourself, I think you can get a pretty high, high boost. Hard for me to say percentage wise though, Like I'm nothing, no numbers really coming to mind. It's kind of hard for me to pinpoint that. Yeah, I know because there's no science behind it or anything like that.
It's hard to like go out on a limb and say a percentage, but would you say it's like a significant or very or minor? I would. I would say it's significant,
yeah, yeah. I, I think about it similarly to something you spoke to at the beginning of the conversation, Mark this, these cascading benefits, you're talking about how as we become more assertive, as we create more boundaries, as we create more structure and direction and purpose in our life, that has a positive influence on our testosterone levels, which will then result in US having more energy and capacity to continue in that direction.
And I look at semen intention in a similar way as we create that containment and direction and intention in our life.
And all those felt experiences, regardless of whether they can be shown in a lab result or not, those felt experiences of increased libido, increased Dr. something that almost across the board men coming through our program experiences like, oh, if I wasn't already working out, now I'm practicing semen intention and I've got all this energy and it needs somewhere to go. So I'm going to go hit the gym.
Like so many guys come into our program and within a few weeks they're like, yeah, so I started working out again and it feels great. And so I also look at it, it's like it's, it's one, it's one piece that can have a much, it can influence so many other aspects of our lifestyle that all of that combined is, is part of the big picture, which is what I think you're really looking at and, and working
with. Yeah, I love that lens too, because like something I I also say is like testosterone, having adequate levels of that gets you into the arena, like you're more, more able to approach whatever might be uncomfortable or something that you want to avoid. And that's, that's the moment where you gain skills, you gain
more confidence. And that's like also a key part of the, the positive feedback loop of getting into the arena and like doing doing things and having like, if you're low T, you're less likely to, to do things to approach, like approach a woman that you find is cute to speak up in a business meeting and, and bring up an idea. And then so like high tea men, they get further in life because they have that prerequisite to then like approach a cert and do
all these things. And that's just like the positive feedback a little bit. As well. Yeah. And I'm loving this conversation. It's just, you know, to me, the these foundational pillars just for guys tuning in, you know, and you spoke in the very beginning about stress, cortisol levels being connected to purpose, being like #1 sleep, you know, I would even throw in like hydration, nutrition, working out, you know, and getting high intensity, high
strength workouts. I would also add in that seem the cool thing about our semen is that just like our sleep and just like our stress levels, like some of the highest markers and ways you can get started if you're listening on to this is really already within you and it's free, you know, and once you get it optimized, actually once you get it dialed in, I can imagine, Mark, for guys who come through your training program and they're in that positive feedback loop and it's
compounding, right? Like the actual maintenance of it once it's up and running, even with the initial upfront expenses like investing a professional like you getting the blood work done, investing in the supplementation, getting a gym membership, you know, all these investments like once you get to that level, I can imagine the maintenance is actually it just compounds on itself. Would you say that feels?
True. Yeah, 100% because especially from the lifestyle perspective, like you, you get yourself out of the low T hole. That's the hardest part. And it's like, you know, your lifestyle's in that negative feedback loop and is once you pop into the positive feedback loop, then it it just, it's just way easier because you're going to have more and when you have more, you do more.
That gets you more. I'm curious, Mark, if you just is a kind of a personal question and it might come off a little funny, but when you interact with guys and like shake their hands and are talking with them, Can you, I'm curious if do you feel like you can get a pretty good sense of their T levels And like could you actually write a number down? And have you ever compared that with a guy who comes into your program like on a discovery call and then guess what his.
Numbers are and do you feel like you, you get pretty attuned to that as a guy who works all the time. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Like I can, I can tell 'cause it's, it's like a body language thing as well. Handshake for sure. Like, you know, some people can like overcompensate with that because they know it's a thing. Like I'm going to grip your hand really hard just just so you
know. But yeah, I can kind of tell just like how someone carries themselves, like if they're going to be high T or low T, it's just, it's just different. Like it's something that you can feel, you can feel when a man is like one embodied in their masculinity. And then also I think that there's a lot of carryover embodied in like have and also having high testosterone.
You feel, you can feel that, especially if you've been in the space and you've had conversations and you know, a lot of the guys that get on calls with me, it's kind of like a it's a challenge because you know, they're in the negative feedback loop of low T and they like don't want to make a decision. They want to, don't want to take something that's a little bit uncomfortable.
So then they get in that feedback loop and these are the guys who like have to talk to their wife or can't make a decision, can't step forward because they're just stuck in that. So that's kind of the challenge of getting these guys who struggle to make decisions to make a decision that's going to like absolutely change their life. And then once they get, once they start and make that decision, like they're in my world, there's no way they're failing.
I want to bring that back to an earlier thing we were talking about around the relationship between testosterone and sex and what you were speaking to there, Mark. Like it's felt you can feel that as a man, and you can bet that women are feeling that as well. And so like our attraction, the level to which we are attractive to women is also related to our testosterone levels, whether we like it or not.
It's not the only thing, but biologically there is something there that is felt by the world around us. And there's a reason why women, some women will sometimes go and have an affair with the, with the biker, with the, the, the Uber masculine man or like, whether it's an affair or not, they might go and have, you know, feel attracted and drawn to that Uber masculine man, someone that's exuding some of those qualities of high testosterone levels.
And there's a, there's, there is a biological piece at work there. And, and I think that often happens for women during ovulation when they're also at their peak in their feminine expression and, and in their, you know, sexual openness. And I'm just curious like what comes up for you with that? Yeah, I love that conversation.
I make these posts sometimes. I used to think the caption was like low testosterone men tend to get cheated on or get cheated on and that it goes to what you're saying right there. Like if you're a low testosterone man, you're probably not leading as well as you could. You don't have that like felt experience, probably don't have like the attractive physique in all these different things.
But I think it more so it's just how how like the feminine is experiencing you as a low testosterone man. They don't they're not really feeling much from you. So if some other man who's just like embodied in high tea as fuck, like it's kind of, it's kind of shitty to say, but I feel like it's it's all over the averages. It's going to be more true. If you just compare 2 scenarios of a man who has high testosterone and he's showing up and he's leading his woman, there's tons of polarity.
The likelihood of her going and seeking that elsewhere is very low. She's not getting LED. If she's not feeling like in her feminine, she's not feeling desired and attractive. The high the likelihood of her going elsewhere is higher. I mean, I think it's just, it's just factual to say that some people get upset when I say things like that. But I mean, it's just that it's the truth in my opinion. Yeah, the polarity that you spoke to is that's what was coming up for me as well.
This is like a biological polarity enhancer. And it's not, you know, the it's a biological marker. But as you're speaking to, it has all of these other influences on how we carry ourselves in the world. And all of that serves to amplify polarity. And when there's really strong polarity, there's strong attraction and there's there's no way around that. I mean, there is a way around it, which is also really nice empowering part about this is there are ways for us to
influence these levels. Yeah. And one of the side effects of influencing these levels, if done in a really holistic, intentional way with someone like yourself, is that you're also just going to boost your health and vitality in all aspects of life.
Yeah, you're just going to become more magnetic in general because like I've experienced that that side of things of like a, a low T man previously, like in the relationship, being a nice guy, not being able to stand up for myself and just so afraid of confrontation. So I've experienced that lack of polarity and and that was in my previous relationship. And yeah, I've I like the things that I was talking about. I have experienced that. I understand that.
I know what that feels like. So I feel like I can speak on that pretty confidently. And then also I know the flip side of that and like the relationship that I'm in now is so different because I'm more embodied in that high T in masculine leadership, there is tons of polarity. And so I've felt both. And so I feel like I can confidently say that when a man is, we can say showing up as low T. Like the felt experience from the feminine is just like completely different.
And like if it's crazy because like when you're showing up in that, that embodiment of masculinity, you just get whatever the hell you want and it's just so good. Yeah, Mark, actually that brought up a question I had for you. You know, in a lot of our teachings and you know, the Dow and a lot of these practices, they talk about the middle path, which is called Wu Wei, between the yin and the Yang and the, you know, the darkness and the light, the masculine and the feminine.
And generally speaking, just as a principle of energy of the laws of the universe, like there are these extremes and there is harmony where we balance all things. I'm curious within the realm and the lens of testosterone, if you see an area where it can get out of balance and too extreme, and if there's anything you could speak to about balance or harmony in working towards building and optimizing your
testosterone. Yeah. So I think in terms of like the natural route, I don't think you can really get too far out of balance in terms of like too much testosterone. There can be out of bounds. Like if your testosterone is a little bit higher than normal, then like the estrogen, if you're aromatizing a lot,
estrogen can be a lot higher. And that can create like that's actually what creates the anger and like the typical roid rage symptoms is that sometimes that's like their estrogen levels are actually a lot higher than they need to be. It's not necessarily just testosterone, because testosterone it's can almost like lower that that aggression in terms of like it can make you more grounded. It can lower the feet. Like it quiets the amygdala, which is the fear center in the brain.
So with like optimal levels of that, you're going to be calm, which I've experienced as well. Like there's it's like the it's more that like warrior in the garden of like you're you're dangerous, but not a danger. I love that. I think it's Travor Boehm. He's a fucking G. So there's, there's that aspect and then going into the unnatural route of like taking TRT that can get levels to a
pretty, pretty high level. And if you're not careful, there's a lot of fertility things that can, that can that can happen as well because you're shutting down the natural production. So your balls necessarily aren't working anymore. So that's going to lower sperm production as well. So that's how things can get out
of whack. If people, a lot of these young guys are hopping on TRT because they want to get jacked fast, but they don't realize that they could have some lasting impacts on their fertility if they want to be a father later down the road. So like, there's a lot of instances like that where there's consequences for these, for these actions. Yeah. I feel like there was one more thing I wanted to say but it left me. Well, I appreciate what you said about being a warrior in the garden.
And, you know, I definitely wanted to highlight that as well as part of this conversation, you know, especially talking about shaking a man's hand, feeling his T levels, feeling his embodied masculinity. You know, I see personally like testosterone as very similar to sexual energy, to money, to power, to technology. None of these things are good or evil. It's not like that.
It's just powerful. So it's like if we're, if this is rocket fuel containment and integrity, I guess is the biggest piece I want to bring in here. You know, to me, shaking a man's hand who is powerful, who is tapped into that energy, who can do anything and make the world, you know, bend over at his will, but also has that restraint and that ability to maintain coherence between his words and
his actions. You know, that's a big piece that I, I think we're all probably on the same page on, but just wanted to add that in as part of the stack as like staying connected to the heart and not just being led by our balls all the time. And we talk a lot in our work about hardcock coherence. I sense that is like for me. Just my own input on finding this balance and curious if anything comes up for you in that.
Yeah, yeah. What I was going to say earlier came back up. So thank you for pinging that in me. Yeah. So it's like you mentioned money and we look at money, it's just an amplifier of everything of all your energy. And I look at testosterone in the same way, like you said. So if you're insecure, that's only going to amplify your
insecurities. Like if you like for whatever in terms of in, in a relationship or in a like physical standpoint, insecure about your body, like that's only going to make these things more prevalent. So that's where the the mental emotional embodiment part comes in as well. And it's like equally as important, you can have the physiological prereq, you can OK, like you have high testosterone, but then how do
you use it? Like how are you able to direct it almost like banks of a river, like without it, it just floods everything. But using the embodiment and probably like a lot of the skills and things that you guys teach, to direct that energy and that high testosterone into aspects of your life that are productive. Mark, can we talk numbers real quick here? Yeah. I know that your approach is taking a a big picture wide lens. You said, I think 50 or 60 plus markers ideally, which is going
to require a thorough analysis. If somebody has already had their blood work done and they have some of the simple markers or if somebody was paying out of pocket for their blood work and they're like, I can't do a full massive panel. What are like the top three markers that you would look for?
And then could you share like what you would consider an acceptable and then ideal range and maybe even just speaking to free testosterone for that, if that feels like the the one that's kind of, and I know acknowledging that this isn't your approach, but also just giving the guys out there something so they have some kind of an idea. Yeah. No, I, I appreciate the question. Since we're talking about hormones and testosterone, I'll stay in that panel.
So I would definitely do total, total test. And then I would do, you can do SHBG, which if you have total in SHBG, you can kind of calculate free, free testosterone's a lot. A lot of the times it's a calculation as well. So getting those two and yeah, I would go estradiol as well.
So testosterone, SHBG and estradiol, I think that at least in the hormone panel for a man, for someone like me, if I see those three, I can infer a lot and I can give that person like a decent amount of value to go for it and, and change something Still limited because I don't have the full picture, but I yeah, test for, for the game that we're playing. Like I think it's those 3. Yeah, appreciate you playing the game. So I heard you say total test. Would you like if? What about free?
Yeah. So it would be total and then SHBG and if you have those two you can calculate free. Oh, OK. Cool. Yeah, a lot of the times free testosterone is just a calculation. They take it, you can put it in on there's like online websites you took, you put the total in, you took the SHPG and then sometimes albumin. But usually if you have total in SHPG you can calculate free. OK, cool. And then what are the what, what's like an acceptable and then ideal range for it?
And we'll just use the avatar of like a man in his 30s. Yeah, yeah. So pretty much regardless, I like my total at least 700 for most men in most most ages. So 30 for sure, over 700. Like nanograms per. Yeah, nanograms, Nanograms. That's a little different than we typically use here in the in Canada, but. You're in Canada, OK. Yeah, For that it would be, yeah. Nanomoles per liter. I think that would be 23 and above. Yeah, I think that's about right.
Something like that, yeah. And then for like fully optimized, like ideally after six months, you get someone who is at like a decent base level to somewhere that you're like, wow, this, this is like awesome results. What does that look like? Yeah, again, kind of like case by case dependent also based on how they feel because like a person. Yeah. And this opens a whole nother can of worms. It's based on how someone feels. And then something called
androgen receptor density. We don't need to get into that. But that's just like a man can have high testosterone, but his androgen receptor density is low and he's not going to have as much fire as someone whose receptor density is a lot more sensitive. So that's a side conversation. We don't need to get into that. Any, any guy that like comes to me below 600 and gets over 800, they they feel that, they significantly feel that. And that's just from the total.
Then looking into free. Free has a bunch of different units, but we can use the ones in the 100. So for for reference, like I after I had my shoulder surgery, I did my bloods. I was 681 and then my free was 8 and I doubled that. So I got my free from 8 to 16 and that is that was just like a crazy difference. So that was 681 and then eleven O 4 and then doubled the free. So like for free over 150, which 15 or 150 for American units, not sure the Canadian units there, there's two different
ones as well. But yeah, at least 150 or 15. That's a significant, you feel that significantly. Yeah, thank you, Mark. And just for listeners, you know the the good news is you don't have to figure it all out yourself, right, Mark, 'cause you offer free blood screening, right? You speaking? About that, yeah, easiest way is just go on my Instagram, which will probably be in show notes or whatever.
Mark Holman health, you just DM me the word bloods and I have a mini chat automation that asks you a few questions. You pop your blood bloods in, I get notified and I put it in my spreadsheet and then film a loom and go through it all and just show like line by line. These are the patterns that I'm seeing. This is the analysis. This is what you need to focus on. And then obviously like on the back end of that, if they want clear clarity on what exactly to do with the support as well like
opportunity to work together. Yeah, man, we're really just thanking you for that service. Thank you for for sending out those analysis to guys for free when Yeah. Is there any other ways that guys can can you talk a little bit about your program? I know you have so far in this conversation, but there any last logistics or anything guys could know about what it is you do and then and your offerings? Yeah, talked a bit about the blood work.
So that's like first stage if someone has blood work or they're just like feeling that fatigue, the lack of energy, lack of libido, lack of vitality, they're just not, they don't have their edge anymore. Like those are usually the guys that tend to reach out and I can really help. So if listeners are experiencing any of that reach out, first stage is the blood work. And then I put you through a protocol which again is based on that really specific precise,
what is your body telling me? What are the goals that you have? And then I have a community as well. So we do like men's group calls. So that's a little bit on the embodiment side of just like getting in a rooms with men, sharing experiences that you're struggling with, getting held accountable to maybe have a conversation that maybe you've been avoiding or stuff like that. So that's a key piece as well.
And then just the, the coaching aspect as well, like accountability and making sure I'm giving you everything that you need to get the result. Literally all you have to do is execute. And then I make sure that you're executing with calls, with check insurance, with accountability
systems and stuff like that. So again, like I said earlier, like if a guy comes into my world, into my program and they apply themselves, there's literally no possibility to not change their life, to not get the result that they're looking for. Yeah. Yeah, brother, cheers to that. Yeah, we say similar thing at MSM. We have 100% results with 100% of the guys who give it 100%. Yeah, exactly. Awesome, brother. Well, thank you so much for coming on with us today. And thank you for the work
you're doing in the world, man. Really appreciate you leading the charge in this. It is so needed for men and Hawks. Are there any last things you want to say before we sign off? It was great to meet you Mark. Appreciate you sharing your time and your expertise and looking forward to seeing you continue to grow and and serve. Appreciate it man. All right, guys. Thanks for tuning in and we'll catch you on the next one. Peace.