Welcome to another episode of Men Explained. It is getting crowded in here, right? Yes, it is. Once again, welcome back to another episode where we dive into topics and see, we go into the minds of women, of men, and then we kind of break it down with our unapologetic, honest opinions. Yeah, honestly, I think this is the time where like A and I can actually argue and get away with it. Correct on the show, and we can actually say what we want to say. But please, before
anything else, can we please welcome our guest today. Welcome to the Hot. The fuck.
Oh my God, someone's a fan. Yeah,
I know, right, but please welcome Joey and Nick. How are you guys doing today? Very excited to be here by the way. When they told me that we want you to do an episode where you can explain things. That's the reason why he came here. That's great. Happy to be here. Happy to be sitting next to Avery or OK, I'm looking at you. 3 times for help at this point in time. OK, but I think you know what, today's topic, right, we're
going to have a lot to talk about. Weaponized incompetence, a term that has been thrown around quite a bit lately. I want to be very honest. I haven't heard this I was going to do this episode. It's all for my TikTok. I wonder if it's because like I'm being targeted. algorithm to send you a message. Can we start by Giving a definition, what is weaponized? What? I don't even know what it means. But you might be doing it unconsciously.
This is not restricted to just men, by the way, because when I went through this, I felt like I could relate a lot to it. Guilty as charged. Do you realize sometimes certain people in your life, they are not exactly not good at something, but they make excuses for it like, oh, I can't do this because I'm not good at it. Yeah, but actually they're just trying to get away with doing something. Could be in an office, could be at home, wherever.
It became a trend on TikTok, right, because I think it first started off with a lot of, uh, in general women posting about how like they are the ones who are primarily doing the household chores at home and then when asked like why their male partners do not contribute. Yeah I was like, oh, I'm bad at the laundry. I'm so bad at doing the laundry. You do it so much better. I can't really that sort of thing.
So I guess it works both ways, right, for women as well, it could be like uh repairing the stuff, you know, I don't know how to change a light bulb. I do that with Jeremy very often like I don't like to do the dishes or the laundry or anything really.
Yeah. There's a female version. It's just I'm just a girl.
I'm.
I'm a
passenger princess
so far. I'm just a girl. I'm
that girl. So, so when was the last time you guys actually used that excuse? I'm just bad at it. Like, can you do it for me? Yeah, all the time. So I'll give you an example and then maybe Joey, you can. I don't know which one you relate to more, but this is the number one excuse that I always make when I don't want to do the dishes, which is all the time, OK? I'll say like I don't want my hands to like itch, you know, um, and my manicure and my hands are very, you know, sensitive
to the dishwashing soap. It is, it is, yes.
It could be true with prolonged,
um, you know, just not just any dishwashing soap really. get like upgrade your dishwasher's pink rubber gloves, but then the gloves, right, you still have that residual, I don't
know, like, the best is when was the last time you
you said, you know, I'm just bad at
it. I wouldn't say I'm just bad at it. I would just say like, oh, we need to do this, which is if you look into the words you need to do this. Yeah, like, oh we need to do this. Oh, we need to go and get that. Oh, I need to go to the fridge, but he's closer to the fridge. Yes, OK, I'll go get it. I'm like, oh thanks.
But would you say that that's really weaponized incompetence then because it's not that you can't do it. It's not that you're bad at it. You just don't want that's just manipulation. Are we? No, I feel like it becomes weaponized incompetence, right, when you use you doing it badly or not being able to do it as an excuse to get the other person to do it. If you are say like I don't like to do it or I don't want to do it, can you do it for me please, because like I would like if you
could do this for me. I think that's not. OK, OK. So what about your dynamic then? I don't think so I don't want to do something, I'll just say I don't want to do something, and I feel like in terms of household chores, we are split evenly so like cleaning and laundry we will split, but cooking is always myself. Then after that, like dishes will always be my wife Jess, yeah. What about like tech related stuff, it's definitely you. Does she make any reasons or excuses or no?
Just, just doesn't keep up to date with like yeah or even like home improvement, right, like say if we were to implement a smart home tomorrow, it will be me, but the thing is she doesn't expect me to do it, so it's not a case of like I want a smart home, can you do it? She's just like I don't need a smart home. But do you think that's a gender norm being like, all the men should do the repairing, the men should do the setting up of the smart homes, while in that case a bit different lah, huh?
But do you think that's a I feel like if we look at the median and average, right, then there definitely are gender stereotypes in terms of like what society expects women to do, what society expects men to be better at, but I don't think that that's accurate or representative for every relationship la. Yeah, I'm going to just put it out there like my own partner Jeremy, he's not very good at tech stuff, honestly, like the man works in fintech. Yeah, but he's
more thin tech.
Fintech doesn't equate to fixing cables, my friend. This is why A is in media, OK, I can see that. No, but I think it's interesting because like coming from a single person, right, obviously you've got all this weaponized incompetence that you guys are talking about comes from relationships. Do you guys see it in the workplace, right? Because for me, I will say that as a single person, I can't say, oh yeah, you know, I see this in a relationship because what are we talking about? But we do see.
I know, no, no externally, but um I see a lot in the workplace. So for me, my weaponizing confidence comes from knowing that my radio partner Jermaine is very much logistically more capable than I am. Logistically meaning that she handles all the Excel sheets when it comes to like doing our scripting, our Pro Tools. She is hands on with everything and initially when we first started, she was like, you know, can you do it? And I was like, I can, but you do it better. You do it
better than me. And you know, we've been in this partnership for 3 years now that she doesn't even bother asking anymore. She's just like, OK, I will do it because I know that you're terrible at it. So you contribute with power and moral support. I contribute with my brain and my presence and the vibes you or not. I do try. I'm not great at it, right, and she really is good at it, and I think it's also kind of like a give and take. Because now she knows when you do it, it's it's OK.
When I do it, it's great. So let me do it. I feel like if it's a case of you put in like 100% right and it's at a level that you can live with and you're happy with, but the other person is not happy with it, then it's not really, but I will admit sometimes then now when I do like maybe I do 60% and she wants to do better, then she do all. That is incompetence.
I think I need to say that I think there's a very fine line between playing to each other's strengths and weaknesses and weaponizing incompetence. Like if you have been tasked to do something and it's agreed upon that you will handle this and you come home and the dishes are not done, everything is messy and they're like, oh, because like I tried and it was just too messy, I can't do it. I figured you'd do it better, but it was really. Upon that you would handle this. If you don't even try,
then I think that's weaponized incompetence. But if it's agreed upon that OK, it's OK, I'm better at this and you're better at this, then we split. I don't think it's weaponized incompetence because it's agreed upon that you guys play to your strengths and weaknesses in a within a couple,
right, one person assign something to another person, then you must be prepared for. The result la, 100%.
Like why would you force a task that you know will not be performed well on someone just to make them feel like, see, you're not living up to the standard, but it doesn't make sense to force this task on someone that like you know they can't do.
Yeah, no, so for me like, OK, I don't feel forced to do it. I know that I should. Also pull my own weight when it comes to these things. We have our own places, right? So I also learned how to handle some of my stuff, you know, be it household chores, finances, or whatever it may be, right? But then when we come together and you know, he already knows that I hate doing, say, laundry or dishes or whatever, but when I do it at his house, he's like extra, extra appreciative of it, you know, so
he's like, oh, I really appreciate it. So maybe the trick is you got to hold back a little bit like don't. So when you do it, it's like, but the question is, do you think that that's really incompetence or just that you just don't want to do it because like if you're incompetent, it means that you can't do it well. It's like throwing it in and pressing a button. How bad can it's not like I quite particular about laundry
or so, um, must fall a certain way. So then when Jess doesn't fall a certain way, right, then I'm like I will refold, but I will make it a point to not be like, uh, you fall wrong, can you don't fold it like that. Because if you are doing it, then I must be prepared that like this is the result lah.
But he really likes like laundry, cooking, cleaning, he loves
I'm starting to realize that a lot of this when it comes to relationships, a lot of it is dependent on how your partner both of you like to do something, don't like to do something, right? But that's more of like a compromise. When you guys first started this relationship, was it like you paid attention to what this person is not good at? Because I to me.
That's more incompetent than it is like a compromise. I think it depends on your tolerance level so far the examples that we've given right have always been like one is good, one is not good, but I think it really becomes a true test when both are not good or both of you don't like to do a certain thing. And I also feel like a lot of the things that we're talking about right is very like physical like laundry, vacuuming, ironing chores another angle like emotional,
emotional talking about feelings
like OK, we found we found. You're not a perfect man.
Nobody said
that. You're mostly what Avery is aspiring to be right now. OK, I am emotionally so I've been told by my female co-host on the podcast and Jess has confirmed this. I think like when we argue a lot of times it's because of this. I've learned recently that I have cognitive empathy and not emotional empathy. Please fill us in on the case. I understand why you are feeling this way. Emotional empathy is, oh, I can feel it as well. So you understand why you don't feel. Yeah.
He can like intellectualize it, but he can't emotionally
process it in that way. So that's just look at it and she's like, OK, I understand that you don't. Process this the way that like, you know, I would prefer it. So that to me is like I'm going to step up and then be able to properly do this in a relationship. Yeah, so I think there was
that that calibration that was needed. I also had the realization that if I kept on going like I'm just not like that, then I feel like that is a form of weaponizing computers so like you are kind of making an excuse to not try by saying that, you know, I just cannot. I completely understand this as well, right, because as you are. Trying to emotionally deal with something, right, and then you're like, oh. Because it's so emotional, I don't know how to deal
with it. Yeah, I'm just gonna like, you know what, if you don't understand it, too bad. No, but you are the emotional one or you are not emotional one. So like to my partner, I'm not emotional. So I'm very emotional. So it's a spectrum I also think that sometimes it depends on the person that you're with. It
brings out a different side of people. Like, you know, sometimes the person that is maybe not suitable for you, right, brings out just this like horrible side of you that you didn't even realize existed and then you don't even recognize yourself. Yeah,
I think once it's brought to your consciousness from your subconscious or like maybe you weren't aware, once someone tells you, hey, I'm not OK with this, and you constantly continue the same behavior, then to me, I feel like you're going out of your way to hurt that person or like you're consciously hurting that person because you already know what your partner needs this to feel validated or secure and you're like, but I'm not good at it. So it's
still a conscious choice to. I know if I don't change, I'm hurting her, but it suits me better. So you know what I mean?
Yeah, no, I think a good example is when Jeremy and I had our own issues and we tried to iron certain things out, right? One of it was the communication when it came to like solving problems or when I'm when I come to the table with like this issue or that issue, and I actually just want him to empathize and listen, but he is, he was very similar to what you, yeah, problem solver, so he'd be like, ah, it's just so easy, just do this. Why don't you
just do that? That would make me even more emotional, right? And I'm like, you just don't understand me. And after I communicated to him that he sometimes all I need is someone to listen and not come back with a solution. I just want you to be like, I'm on your side, babe, like I'm on your side. That's it. I'm on your side. So he's like, oh, like that, OK, OK. So to be fair, he's kind of changed it a little bit.
Same same with Charlie, he would oftentimes like keep quiet and in his head he's like, yeah, I agree this person sucks so like I can't believe they hurt you, but then outside it's like this like hm. You know, like I already knew this would happen. I'm like, I understand that. I understand that logically you can process it, but like me, what I need right now is to feel like you're on my side. So I will literally give in phrases like I'm sorry. When you say I'm sorry,
it's not like I'm sorry I caused you hurt. It's like I'm sorry you're feeling this way about empathizing or sympathizing the person is. Correct, the teacher, like, say I'm sorry this is happening. You can say you can rub my back. If you know what to say, you can rub my back. You can maybe hold my arm. Like these are ways that I will feel assured. Correct. I think. I cannot expect him to know what to do without
communicating that also. So I think a lot of the partnership and growing together right is about communicating and also sometimes I cannot take his silence as like ignoring me because that's how he processes it.
Yeah, sometimes my partner is like, I have nothing to say. I understand, but I've got nothing to say at this point and that's why he stays quiet. So it's a case of I feel like if you give them 10 keywords right to use and then they use 6 but then the other 40% of the time they're silent or like problem solving mode.
Then they are trying, if they don't like don't try to communicate in the way that you want, then that is a bit of a weaponized he's already committed to me in life, so he has no choice but to deal with this, you know. Obviously this is because you feel that your partners are not able to express a certain emotion towards you and you guys have to teach them in that sense, right? So do you think in a sense, women are kind of to blame.
Open inverted commas like that, yeah, disclaimer to blame for like coddling men in this sense, you know, when it comes to maybe emotionally, or you don't understand me as a woman, let me do this for you because if not, it's going to feel as though you're weaponizing your incompetence and making me feel like I cannot express it this way. It is a two way street I feel, right? Yeah,
I think coddling comes when um let's say you are in a public setting and then he doesn't say anything. And then you try to defend him without letting him handle it himself. For example, like maybe it's his family and maybe there's bad news, right? And then he didn't say the right thing, he just said there and then they accused him of, why don't you have anything to say about this family better, right? And then you speak out like, no, no, no, he actually just doesn't, you know,
like this is how he processes it. Instead of letting him deal with it and then you go and speak up and protect him. I think that's coddling. But if behind the scenes you're like, hey, you know, just now at the family thing, I think you should have like spoken. But I understand is how you process, but from the
outside it looks like you don't care. And then you give him the tools to also have independence because we don't want to ship them to the people that we want them to be like all the way, you know what I mean.
So Nick, do you think your wife cuddles you and maybe not say emotionally, but even in like household chores and stuff like that. I think a bit, because like there are times where my workday is quite hectic like and a lot of times I I cook my lunches, so you know when I'm alone at home. Then I will cook because like my wife will go to the office and all that and I work from home. So sometimes I cook, I eat, and then I have to go straight back to work so I don't clean up,
but I do that too. But then in my mind it's like, OK, I will clean up later but I think her threshold for like leaving it there is much lower than mine. So then a lot of times she cleans up, obviously not all the time lah, and then there are times also where it's like when she returns home from office, I make it a point that OK, must have hot dinner for for her already. So that's one thing. So then
To me it's a bit of a compromise. But do you think it's ever been a point where you cook and then you're like, I know Jess is going to clean. I'm just gonna leave her. No, I don't think so. I don't think so. I think
that's when it is.
That's why I think you're trying to, you know, so you don't do that. So you do it subconsciously because you're like, I will clean and then she just does it for you. OK, OK, but I know that you are not actively in a relationship right now, but previously, in your previous relationships, have you ever had any experiences with experiencing any of this when it comes to weaponizing competence, it is the most like. Basic thing, but I will tell you sons has to do it for me as well.
It's hot pot for you. So is it the prawn you don't know how to peel? OK,
so here's the thing, it's not that I don't know. I don't want, right? And when we go to hot pot, I refuse. So if we go, I have to sit next to her, right? She say he will say I suck at this. Spoiling the food. I mean just cooking the food. No, you know why? Because I suggested hotpot and forgot that he is, and then I did it again. I don't know why. I just because I want to eat hot pot, yeah, because she loves hot pot and the thing is that it happened in my past relationships
as well, right? So I will always say, oh, you like hot pot can, but I'm not good at cooking the food because I scared I will get sick, but it's bullshit. I just hate cooking shit. Oh my God, so you don't cook at all and I don't like going on hot pot, so pot in general, Korean barbecue. I also don't like. I think anything that requires to me that's my very low level of of like weaponizing incompetence, right, because I just don't like to cook hot pot. Maybe that was a deal breaker.
That's why you're saying.
Every Chinese New Year is a struggle. Oh no, my family knows. My family, my sister, my Alex will cook for me, so I will have to sit next to my sister and she'll cook for me. It would be very funny if one day they just decided not to do it for you and you have, and I just ate white rice. Oh my God. So you,
OK, you know,
you don't like. No,
no, I think if he's like, huh, I got no food. No cook for me, then I'll be. No, no, no,
I will not say that.
But if you are contented eating your boring white rice, actually I love white rice
or not eating hot pot at all. OK, that's my version of like my weaponizing competence, but do you guys think women are more likely to do this or men are more likely to do this dangerous. Nick, what do you think it's quite equal, but the branding for women doing it is a lot better than the branding.
For men doing it. Because I find that so this is going off like social media trends, right when it's like um a girl doing it, then a lot of times it can be disguised under the I'm just a girl, I'm just a baby, I'm passenger's princess, but then I think um when when guys do it, then it gets it gets called out very quickly.
I think it's also because with relationships with men and women, it sometimes crosses the boundary of men liking. Women that resemble their moms. Yeah. So because of that dynamic that exists, they expect a maternal caregiver kind of thing and that's why they are OK to not because women also we have that maternal instinct to want to
take care and provide in that sense. And because we already have that innate ability, when we see a man that we love, like not being able to do something or he's not, and we want the best for him. It's not that they ask. It's like I'm very hungry, but I'm very lazy to go across the street, so I'll just like eat beans, for example, and I'll be like, Ha, no, we need to get you your protein or whatever. So then I'll go out my way and I'll be annoyed that I have to go and buy food. And then
I realized he didn't ask for it. I'm just assuming that like he has chosen this super inconvenient like path for himself and no, no, no, we need to get the best one. Actually, am I mothering him? I noticed that that can be very dangerous as well because you don't want to mother your partner.
But I think especially when you and then you feel resentment, then it's for nothing. At least you recognize it. It's
like one side
just to add on to this. So I'm not sure if this is related to me being like an only child, for example, right? Wait anyone else here you also. So the fact is when I was growing up, we didn't have a helper, but because I'm the only child. People would think that I'm quite spoiled or like only children are spoiled. That's the generic view on only children, right?
And the problem is if I don't do something like a chore or I don't wash the dishes or clean up my room, my mom will end up doing it without even saying anything because she's just like, ah, just do it, you know, kind of thing. So I don't know whether subconsciously I feel that way about my partner too. I'm like, oh, if I don't clean up this cup, someone else will do it
it will get done.
Yeah. Do you think it's kind of like ingra? I think so, but I think so I think um in this instance it's not gender specific, but I feel like in a lot of households, right, especially in Singapore or like Asian households, there's one expectation for a son and then there are different expectations for daughters. So I have friends who are like, the son don't need to do this, but then the daughter must do and it's like it's not unique it's quite, quite common. I feel like it could stem from this.
Generational, I think it's also so that together with like being a mama's boy, then those sons grow up to become like that, they will expect their wives to do it.
There are a lot of TikToks of moms now saying like if you have a son, you better make sure you teach him too. You are doing this for his future girlfriend or wife because I'm having to go through it with my husband and I don't want to repeat this pattern. So there are a lot of women who are stepping up and saying this.
That's why so many women have beef with their mother-in-laws. The mindset is changing though, I feel
100%.
The question that I have is because you guys are all in relationships, right, and obviously these are things that like leaving the cups around, you know, like not, not washing up and then having just to wash up. I leave the cups around so much that Jeremy calls it a cup for us. There we go, yeah, right, like your partners. for it, right? And how do you all deal with that? Like they're like, you know, I've told you this multiple times. Like how do they do it? How do you all
deal with that? Suddenly I feel like I'm being interviewed as well. therapist. So initially he reacted in an irritated sort of way like. Why, why so many cups? Like, ah, you know, that kind of thing. So I told, I'm really sorry, like, you know, I'll try to be better at this, not cup for us, you know, just a cup bush or something small, something smaller, and he'd be like, OK, so I realized that when he comes at me with this more like frustrated aggressive tone, I will react or I'll
be like defensive about it. But then he tries to change his tone, he'd be like, babe, you know, like I know that you need to drink a lot of water, but can you please just limit it to one cup? You mean it's all water. It's not different beverages. No, I don't drink any other beverages except for coffee and water. And then you use one cup per cup of water per time that I need to drink.
No, but the last day we cannot finish it needs to be a new cup.
No. I cannot mix the water from 6 a.m. with the water at 2 p.m. Why the taste different? No, the dust will go inside
the minerals. the oxygen
after you guys talk about it, how do they respond? Are they like, they just say, OK, I understand it. It's no longer this weaponized incompetence that you're leaving it around. It's just you being you. Do they ever acknowledge that?
I think after living together for so long, Charlie and I have kind of figured out where we lack like individually. And because I recognize that there are so many things that he does like that are like picking up after me and cleaning up after me that when I clean up after him, I don't see it as like a chore. It's just like I hope you, you help me, but it's only when the balance is like tipped and one person is. Doing everything. I think that's when a conversation needs to happen.
But definitely at the start I got beard hair everywhere in the sink la then like after you trim your beard hair then. But then I realized after I trimmed my bangs, right, then the hair I just like let in the sink, right, then the sink choke. So it's like we're both, yeah, we're both learning, and we're both very different people like our lifestyles are very different. So I think because of that we really had to learn and find like middle ground and compromise.
I think at the workplace, if I try to think about the dynamic that I have with my own partner Joakim as well, right, like both of us obviously have our strengths and weaknesses and what we're good at, what we're not. So we do pick up and we don't say anything because we're not in a relationship and to be honest, we just want the best result for our show, for example. So we don't question, we just do it. Yeah,
I think it's a matter of recognizing that there are strengths and weaknesses for both of you and as long as you don't constantly hold them accountable to their weaknesses and like when they say something about you then you get.
then that's not fair, right? So I think it's about, yeah, I think the unspoken thing is very respectful because you recognize that you both have different strengths that you play into and you rely on each other for and creating that like resentment or friction is only going to do harm to your relationship.
The other example like because we talk about workplace and like in your romantic relationships, right, actually within your family or so. So like for example, if you have an older parent and then they are always like, help me do the Microsoft Word or help me do help me do the pay now or like I think I'm gonna scam, and then you know there's that constant resistance to learning like or embracing technology and then being 100%
dependent on you. To me that is a form of weaponized incompetence, yeah, because I think, OK, if it's a complex task, right. Like, ask you Photoshop one poster that kind of thing, then it's a bit much, but then if you can WhatsApp your friends, if you can do these things, right, you can go on Facebook, you can you can scroll to right, then you surely can learn how to learn how to pay now someone, right, yeah.
Speaking of right on the Chinese version of Reddit, I don't know if you guys have heard of this story, but there was this one guy who created this thread and he said, how do I stop getting my wife to ask me to do household chores? because she she just gave birth and now that she's home, he needs to do a lot of things and he's like, how do I get this to stop? And then so the second top comment right was every time you do something, just break.
The dishes. So let's say you do the dishes, you break. No, seriously. And every time she asks you, you just do it, but like make it bad so that she will stop asking you. OK. So that was that was the top second thought, right? The first comment was a guy who said, No, actually I want up you. You always offer to do it, but when you offer to do it, you do the same. Same thing you make it bad, but at least she she gets to say like, oh actually he really wants to but he's just not good at it. So then
I will do it. So much manipulation emotional plus like, oh my God, when I read that, I was like this is so scary
because it's calculated. Yeah it is. OK, we've talked a lot about emotional, a lot about work space and everything, right? But we also need to know how do you draw the line and how do you differentiate actual incompetence and weaponized incompetence? Like what if somebody really just does not know how to do something versus, you know, I really don't know how to do it, but I'm trying to make you do it for me. I think everybody's different.
So I have friends, right, like guy friends who they really go out of their way to the point where I call them sIs for their wives, which is fine. To be a sim for your wife is fine.
But then like I'll be like, bro, come on, like she can do, but they just want to do it for their partner, which I think is fine as long as you are happy and like are able to tolerate and it's a compromise you're willing to make, it's an extra effort that you are happily willing to give, then I think that is your line, but that line might be different for everybody. I feel that a person is able to tell whether it's real or not, like an excuse or actually not knowing how to do something.
Yeah, I think it's the worst when it's verbalized like yeah I know. I do, you're going to redo anyway, so then I just do like half, you know what I mean? So you already, why not instead of wasting both our times because you're going to do it already, just do it like one time go online just do once and then you don't have to make me check also, you know what I mean?
Guys, thank you so much for breaking this down with us and giving us an insight into your relationships as well. I think we can all relate somehow
except to cooking your own food,
the hot pot. Well, hopefully you guys enjoyed this episode and once again, thank you Joey and Nick for joining us on another episode of Men Explain. Make sure to follow us on all our socials on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, subscribe at its clarity.co. Yeah, if you enjoyed it, please log on Apple Podcast, Spotify, me listen, we're all around you as well. So be sure to see you there. Thanks guys.