Hello and welcome to another episode of Men. Explain, Is Sonia here with you? Thank you so much for all the support and the love so far has been so much fun. I've been learning so much about the men's perspective. Today's guest is someone that I've never actually sat down to have a conversation like this with before. And also, he is a sight for sore eyes. Please welcome Erin.
Hi, everyone. My name's Aaron and I'm an actor.
And you know what? Today's topic is interesting because we are about to address why men or most men, maybe not you and most feel the need to suppress their emotions and hide their emotions. And, you know, terms like, oh, grow a pair or like or men or you're not manly enough these terms that are thrown around quite a bit, right? So we want to explore how toxic masculinity impacts our society. Is this going to be a stressful one for you? Are you coolly opening up
chatting with me? Yeah, I think it's fine. I think it's something that that is very important to me. I mean, I was raised by women, so there was always a disparity in how I felt growing up. And then I go out into the world and have all these expectations and I'm like, Huh, okay? And even from within the family or and the ones who have raised me to be who I am.
Yeah, yeah. And do you feel like generally you're the kind of person that is very in touch with your feelings?
I think I've always been very in touch. My feelings, I'm a very emotional person. Yeah. So growing up, I used to always cry easily at movies. And no, I still cry easily at movies.
Thing.
Apparently, it's not something that
is socially acceptable.
Yeah. Yeah. Those ones in through your. And so the whole cohort went to watch Bridge to Terabithia in GB action and that movie director Mila. Yeah, it wrecked me. I was crying and I can feel everyone accumulate. Like, what
the heck is going on?
Yeah, it was really sad. It turns out only one other guy in the entire cohort cried. So three of us like, Yeah, man, I mean, I feel, you know, yeah, but everyone else made us feel like, like, Jesus Christ, these guys are a bunch of wusses, you know? Yeah.
So obviously in today's episode, we are also looking at how society has, you know, brought us up as such, you know, with certain assumptions and how maybe you as a man as well, you feel like when you were younger, perhaps you had to conform to certain ideas or like
certain ways that people see men as right. So were there some moments in your life where you feel like, OK, I can not show my feelings aside from the movies or, you know, I have to restrain myself or be more manly or light goes on balls, you know, stuff like that.
Yeah, definitely. I think especially growing up when it's not even to strangers or people that you're not very close to, sometimes it's to your own closest friends. You don't you want to fit in. I think back then, everyone kind of just one that once the gang up with someone, it's easy to gang up on to make themselves feel better because everyone's just insecure. Growing up, we went to band together. In the easiest way to do that is to, you know, make someone else, you plug it in.
It still happens when we're adults, but
you know, it's yeah, it's really unhealthy and just not the not a good thing for anyone to do that. Yeah. So, OK. Recently, about two years ago, I learned how to drive.
Oh, OK. Yeah, so that's how
you guys first time, first time. All right. But I took it and I got so many people going like Otto, like you might. So, you know, you might seem
like, why didn't you take manual?
Exactly. It's like it's a man's thing to drive manual. I'm like, Have you seen Singapore?
Like, there's not a single manual
conference last time you saw manual kind and you want to start stop in traffic. It's just not practical, right? But this association with how many it is the great manual. I'm like, OK, oh, growing up when when everyone was trying to be cool and smaller? Yeah. So number one, is that smoking because you want to be different, you know, after school, you know, be different. You want to be a man, you grow up. So what does everyone start with? Rids because you know you want to be the Marlboro
man, right? Cannot be menthol.
Exactly.
The fruit flavors.
Yeah. And my throat couldn't handle it. I was like, Oh my god, it's why does anyone want to smoke reds? I mean, you know, on TV, you see in Mad Men, Californication, Sons of Anarchy, all these cool manly men smoking rates, right? So we all start there, and I was like, This is not smart. I can't handle this. So I switch to something really like I started. I can't remember what it was like a long time ago, and I got so much shit fruit. Everyone's like, What? You taught me?
Why I understand the association of like something fruity, something nice flavor. It is never really manly enough. Yeah, yeah, I can't. We mean, it's interesting that you raise up the issue about driving because in general, I feel like men are expected to drive well. You expect it to have a natural flair for it to be able to partly instantly. Do you feel that kind of pressure?
Yes. I don't know where it comes from. I really don't. It's really just like the societal norms, local norms, right? Yeah, I think I'm a decent driver, but certainly not a star. It's not so. Naturally, you know, I look in all the different mirrors and I overthink it, and I'm like a big cobra, you know, when when you're very new on the road and then you know, you always see people like, Oh, no wonder, female driver,
OK, I know that's a thing that pisses me off to every time. Like, Oh, something bad happens. I almost be a girl driving like, Yeah,
I actually have a friend who doesn't trust female drivers. Oh, really? Yeah. It's gotten to the point where if you booked a cab,
what a stereotype. I know,
and we're just like, Well, you're fascinating. You're married. How you like, how does your wife feel about that? You know, like, he's a very nice person, but this is what he believes, and it just goes to show that this is not something that needs to be, you know, out of spite or malice. It's just some people really were just nurture to feel that way. And it's unfortunate.
I think it's just so deep rooted. It's so funny that we're starting with this example because it is so true like it is one of the biggest examples in day-to-day life, right? You know, when when I started driving as well, like people or my friends and all would be like, you know, better not drive like, go alone or that kind of thing. Or, yeah, I mean, just as a passing remark, you know, they don't mean anything bad or they don't mean anything with malice, like you said.
But it is such a deep rooted thing in society. And I think that every time something that happens on the road or whatever, and it's highlighted that it's a girl or woman then or men that makes it extra bad. And all these negative things are highlighted in the media as well. Then you get all your keyboard warriors going on and stuff like that.
Well, if the headlines don't show it in the comments that they're definitely going to comment, like, what's the gender like? Oh, no wonder.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
And I don't know. And you see the thing is when, when people see it, you know, so casually in part in passing comments, right? But you kind of realize that it's that deep root that they don't think like, Oh, you know, it's it's a thing. Everyone knows this, but
almost like casual sexism in a way.
Why have you stopped to wonder why? Like, you think that's weird?
I mean, I have a couple of girlfriends who are terrible addressing joke who don't tell you that, OK, yeah, it is cool. Yeah. Anyway, I'm bringing us back to the topic, as well as really interesting that we started with that, I think is a good time to also properly define what toxic masculinity is because all of these examples are perfect. Example is really they do realize you may not even realize it. Sometimes it just flies by
the radar. We don't even realize that this is toxic behavior or toxic masculinity, suppressing emotions or hiding distress that could be one of aggression as an indication of power. All classic examples here, and sometimes we just don't even realize it. Yeah. In this industry, and you've been in this industry for for a couple of years now, for some time now, right? Do you feel like at any point in time, you need it to conform to the
idea of being a very masculine man? Or do you think that this industry has allowed you to be more in touch with, you know, your feelings and other sort of sights of you?
Hmm. I don't think I had to conform in the industry. I think that in any way, anywhere you go, you know, you kind of want to be charming if the guy is right. And, you know, sometimes you hear very cool, casual like sexist remarks being passed around and just like, OK, I wouldn't call this guy out because you don't want the energy on set. I understand. Yeah. So I think that's the fullest extent. I think as far as that goes, what
about like previously in school or. Oh yeah.
Yeah, yeah, we've always.
Oh, OK. You know what? Yes. And give you some examples. Yeah.
I mean, it's it's, you know, like, there's the crying thing. Everyone just wants to to be secure. And so naturally, like if you don't want to confront your yourself and who you really are, you're emotions and all that. The easiest way to do it is to be the most superficially masculine men. Be sporty, you know, be good at sports because you know, who's gonna look at the guy who's good at math and go like, Oh, that's a real man. Right? Because you know, this guy can be
whatever man even is defined. Baylor Yeah. But the easiest way to to feel like one is to at least be more different than the woman, which is in your physical appearance. Right, right. So I was a very scrawny kid, scrawny kid. Not really a hit of the girls. It was. Yeah, and that definitely takes a toll, right? Because you've got all these people who are more athletic, more masculine, more deemed worthy or attractive or more manly. And so naturally, you just kind of feel like maybe I should be
like that. Maybe it's this is what I need to do to gain the attention of the opposite sex or something.
And I was just sharing with the team earlier on that because you were asking me also about my take on it. Since, you know, obviously I've had a history of like ex-boyfriends and stuff like that, right? And I realized that all, almost all of my ex-boyfriends are very different. Like, there's not one like all, like all of them are muscular. All of them are fit. That is all shapes and sizes. All types of. Men, you know, as well. And I thought to myself, like, did I or do I look
out for a masculine, fit looking guy? Not necessarily. I mean, you're absolutely right. I think what matters more is if a guy is confident in your own skin, you're confident, you're healthy. You know what you're doing. It doesn't bother you if you're standing next to like an ultra buff guy or something. I don't know. Does that? Is that a guy thing? Like sometimes when you stand next to someone that's so buff and fit, you're like, Ooh, I feel a little not so strong or something.
From what I've experienced and learned, a lot of guys to go to the gym, the ones who really look after their bodies and they want to sculpt this muscle in their muscle and watch everything to eat. They're actually one of the most insecure.
I think so, too.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm not. You mean, maybe they started going to the gym because of that. But I think ultimately, if you're putting in so much effort to look this way, and then along comes another guy who you deem looks better than you.
Usually it takes a jab at your confidence again,
you know, because you want to be the best. But then you're like, Oh shit, this is other guy. But ultimately, yeah, you can also, I mean, there are a lot of jacked guys who are very confident, but I don't think that confidence lies solely in your physical appearance. I think it lies in your own confidence that may come from working in your body.
Interesting. You say that because, you know, as much as girls always think like, Oh, we are such insecure creatures and, you know, sometimes within our girlfriends, we don't necessarily share it all the time with our male friends or like our partners or whatever. But amongst the girls, OK, I'm sure that if you are watching right now, you might agree. We're always like, Oh, my skin sucks or like, Oh, I need to like lose for CG or like, oh, like, it's real. Oh my god, my Ebanks. You know your
life because you know it's true, right? Yeah. So we have about this amongst ourselves. And then we also rely on each other to uplift each other to be like, No girl, you are so hot, you're the prettiest. OK, I know I'm going on right now, but this is true. This is what we do back.
And I've heard stories about like the female bathroom in clubs and apparently it's like utopia and everyone gets along, but the male bathroom is not like that.
So what goes on in the male bathroom? Just curious because we can spend like 30 minutes in there talking to the street, talking to a total stranger, sharing makeup, you know, like you seeing like in a bar that was so good. Sure. This is sherry glass pre-pandemic.
Even pre-pandemic, you
know, sometimes if a sister needs help, like, I'll share my lip gloss, then do
you like chop off the top?
No, you just think maybe you just want her head love and she like,
Oh, OK, OK, OK, OK, it's not too
bad, but when everyone's drunk, who knows?
That's a very good point. Yeah, the the male bathroom was not like that.
It's the silence of those
grunts, right? It's again, number one. I don't know what the female bathroom looks like, but I would. I think it's a lot cleaner because people in pee in the floors and stuff.
Well, honey, you will be surprised. Wow. The bathroom in clubs. Oh, not the best place to be.
Yeah, I don't miss that.
Yeah, that's the one part. I don't.
Yeah, I think in clubs for men, there's a higher chance for them to be very sussing out the competition. Yeah, they're very defensive. There's a lot of posturing. There's a lot of like, you know, like because everyone wants to feel good about themselves, right? Because they're out on the prowl or something. Yeah, we kind of want to feel better than the person next to us. So even in the in the bathrooms, there's a lot of like bravado, you know,
and and that can be toxic to toxic masculinity. Exactly.
And you know, when you don't feel that way, but everyone's doing that, you kind of feel like, Okay, I got to be a bit defensive here. Like, I always get paranoid. Like, what if somebody wants to pick a fight?
So on that note, has you know your upbringing and your surroundings in your family sort of changed the way that you view masculinity as well as you grew up?
I think so. There was never any clear and conscious like, this is what it is to be a man or something. But maybe that's why I'm a bit more emotional, bit more in tune with my emotions. Yeah, my dad is a very mans man. So what happened was I would feel like the way I feel. I'm very emotional and very. He's called me a snag,
a snag
bag, which I was like, Yes, I'm a snake. So snake is sensitive. New Age guy. Oh yeah. You and your
acronyms, man like, OK, since the New Age, guy. Yeah, all I know is a snack snack. Yeah, OK,
that's 21st century. So giving me my age?
Yes, exactly.
So going on into the world, I would already feel this way. Maybe it's because of my upbringing. Yeah. And then I I meet other guys who are, you know, everyone's trying to be different from that posture should be more manly, especially in secondary school when you need to do something to stand down, right, because everyone's wear a uniform, same haircut kind of stuff. It was very jarring. So didn't. I said looking at TV shows are my, Oh look, this guy is pretty cool. Maybe I should. Maybe I
should try to be like him. Maybe I should try to be like that. Maybe I should try to be like this, like that to fulfill these roles and stereotypes of what it is to be a man to feel about the. About myself. Yeah. But in reality, deep down, I was always very sensitive, I never really felt very manly. You see this in pop culture, you see this out there in the world, especially when you're young and trying
to find your place and find who you are. I think over time, I just got very comfortable with, you know what? I'm not happy trying to posture and trying to be something I'm not. Yeah, you can even even like the first time I saw that drinking. Right? OK. I enjoy beer. I enjoy whiskey. But how are
you enjoying prosecco? Oh, no, no. OK, you well, use this one.
But yeah, but it used to be a norm to go like, Oh, that's a girlie drink. Yes. Yeah. How do you like your whisky at the Bensebaini? Like, you know, how many do you, how much hair you have? And that's it's like, it's ridiculous.
Can you just say how much hair you ever do?
We are really meant to feel like that. We really need to feel like, Oh, I need to fit in and conform. So yeah, yeah, yeah, I totally I can. You know, he's the little white lie.
Yeah, he clearly still has no idea.
I mean, I know what was he like, but I'm not going to stop feeling the need to pretend. Yes. Like, I'm this passionate because this is what makes me a man, and that's my identity, because that's not sustainable. It's just very afterwards. Like, Oh my gosh, you have to live wearing a mask, you know, I got piercings and then I used to have what you call your rings, right? OK.
Whoops. Is it? Yeah, OK.
I mean, small, small black one. Yeah. But then I would still get, you know, comments on really rings. Yeah. I'm like, OK, fine studs. Final before studs. I did all these little things. Like the other day, a family member pointed out that I was wearing a lot of accessories and accessories, so I was wearing light bracelet and stuff. So I think it is a generational thing. Yes, right? So she was like, You wearing so many accessories? Don't you feel like a girl?
Oh yeah. What did you say to that?
I was I was shocked, so I thought, No, should I? You know, it's these two. I think there is change with the generations. I think the younger generation is very aware of these things and very vocal about it. So that's very good. We're in the right direction. The resistance, I feel, will always come from the older generations who
pass on this knowledge to the new generation. So in every generation, you still have those people subscribing to the, you know, the old norms because, oh, my dad said, that's a good thing to do, so I can never do that. I'm looking to a life coach now, and he's been giving me very good advice. Oh, that's great. Yeah. So you're saying that when we put labels on things, we don't want to put in the work to understand these things, you know, so like you can always say, like, Oh,
this guy's just a jackass. But if he did the work, we actually sat down with him and said, Hey, man, what's really going on here? Yeah, it's not normal. Why do you want to spend money? Go to a club, spend money in the clubs
that have a horrible time?
Yeah, where you might get your ass kicked. Like, it doesn't make sense what's really going on? And you know, I guess for the most part, people don't, especially at the age, sit down and figure themselves out, of course, you know, so then they just project these are just projections
of your own unhappiness with yourself, your dissatisfaction or something. Has it ever affected your relationships? Like, has it ever been a topic where you know it was brought up in an argument or I don't know the topic of masculinity has ever come up before?
No, I've only ever had one ex-girlfriend. So no, I don't think.
Oh, great. Even when you guys are angry, like,
why would that come up?
Because I'm a man. Yeah, yeah. And I guess in some fights I hear, you know, from my friends, I personally haven't really experienced too much of it as well. But some of my friends who share their concerns when it comes to relationships are like, Oh, you know, I need my boyfriend, for example, to be more of a man. Like, I need him to take charge. I need him to, you know, come pick me up or take control or, you know, I need him to support me more financially
in the future. I need to know that I'm secure stuff like that. And I know as a friend as well who is very frustrated that her boyfriend doesn't want a car. Oh, I'm not sure if this would spark off any sort of, you know, memories or, you know, experiences that you had before. Do you feel pressure to be like, Oh, you know, when in car, I need to own a car, I need to buy the house, I need to.
Do you live in Singapore then?
Yeah, we're good. Yeah.
As far as owning a car goes, I've never wanted to own a car because of the cause. That's just not practical. I get done on the way to work in the cab, which I can't do if I'm driving. Yeah. So no, but obviously that there's this grand fantasy of being picked up on a date or sent home off that date. Exactly. So because I only got my license like two years ago, I didn't do that many times. It's not really anything to do with being a man.
It's just like the gesture. The gesture is one thing, and it's just like this classic date field where you actually get picked up and sent home and all that.
But I think the concept of dating in this day and age has changed a lot or it is constantly changing. Exactly. So I mean, on that note, also, I guess I will share a story or one of my the one of the first guys that I ever did it. OK? This was back then when I was doing poorly and he was slightly older me, so he had to go to N.S. at that point in time. I don't know whether this will take you back to some memories you know in.
And that's a
that's that's tough, is it?
You know, it's way of toxic masculinity, lives
and thrives, survives there and you can if you share a few samples with me after. But I few, like during that time, I was still very young, didn't have much experience in relationships. Heck, I didn't even know how to date or whatever like I was from a girls school, like 10 years of my life didn't know how to dress. You know how to put on makeup, whatever. Heck, I don't know anything. I went to poly like totally blank.
Slate had no idea what was going on. So when the guy that I was dating back then had to go into an S., I was thinking, Oh, how hard could it be? I can still see him on the weekends, you know, is going to be all good and all that. But what I did not realize was that he was going through a lot during this period, especially what is it called the. Yeah, where they have to stay in and then you get you only get a very limited
amount of time with them. I think he was going through a lot internally and struggling with, you know, I guess, being there, being stuck there, the activities and just, you know, it took a toll on his psychological health, too. And he never really wanted to open up to me about it because he's always like, Yeah, I got it, you know, is cool, is fine and you always want to plan, you know, dates and stuff like that on the weekend.
And I appreciated that, but I felt like I didn't ask him about his feelings enough, and he didn't also want to open up to me enough about what he was going through. And eventually it imploded because he he he spiraled down into a bit of depression as well, and he acted out in some ways and in families
had to get involved. Oh, and I really feel bad because, you know, I mean, if you're watching us now like, you know, not going to name names, but I felt bad because I think as a partner, I wasn't also having these conversations with him or having enough of these conversations. And perhaps we were younger as well, didn't know how to deal with certain things or address and things. But, you know, I felt like I could have been a
better girlfriend for him to lean on emotionally. It's just a matter of whether you want to open up to a trusted person. Right?
And I think ultimately, we always we just we don't know how the exit is, so we can always just think to ourselves, like, maybe I could have done this, maybe I could have done that. But it's just, you know, it's it's could I would have should have left. Yeah. I think guys going through Amy as well because they have all the other guy friends going through. I mean, the number one, don't want to be this caricature way.
All they can talk about is, I mean, to their partners, I'd say, because he probably didn't want to scare you away.
Exactly.
Yeah, I mean, you get all these guys who are like, just like, Oh yeah, it is. And men love to talk in acronyms because everything in the SDF is an acronym. Okay? And indeed, at the same time, explaining and trying to explain why it's so difficult. And they would rather just talk to people who've been there. And because they do have such little time review, they would rather just focus on the two of you. But unfortunately, yeah, it is
important to to share what is bothering you. And I think, you know, men generally do struggle with that.
Yeah, yeah. I think like it's a great perception that you gave me because I never thought of it that way, honestly. And ever since then, I've not dated anyone else in Ennis during doing that phase of life. It's a rough time. Yeah, it's a rough time. How was your how was your time? There was a lot of toxic masculinity. You mentioned there
are examples of toxic masculinity there. I think, you know, the more the more Garang you are, the more the more
the more manly you come across.
Yeah, but some people are very capable. Not physically. Yeah, yeah.
Of course that's the thing. So I feel like manliness or what is perceived as manliness could come in a variety of ways is not just like muscles and, you know, brute force or whatever could be intellect. Yeah, it could be personality. It could be so many other things, right?
And this can make people great soldiers as well. Maybe they're not the most obviously physically fit, but they have other qualities that made them a good soldier. But that is an easily recognized at the start that takes time, and you need to put these people in pressure situations, right? And unfortunately, you know, we we don't have enough of that before we judge someone. I saw I saw a lot of people who are seemingly meek, very small. But
those dudes can last in the field. They can just keep fighting and carrying heavy loads.
The psychological strength is that your mind is powerful.
Yeah, I don't know what it is. I remember being very like, Wow, OK. And because for me, I would have all these sergeants going, like, How Geula? Yeah, I'm like, I can run. I'm happy with silver. I barely hits a scratch Silva, right? But there's this immediate expectation.
So do you feel like in general, this whole perception is changing along the way? Do you think you know, guys and even you opening up about, you know, going for your life, coach therapy and stuff like that? I'm not sure if I'm doing that right. You have a life coach you. Open to therapy, because a lot of men out there still see or perceive therapy and counselling is something of a weakness, you know?
Yeah, I mean, I see all these ads advocating getting help for mental health and all that, which is really nice to see. Yeah, I think that's good. I think that with the rise of feminism as well and definitely helps. Just though you're talking about the female bathroom, right? Yeah. Now everyone's really back there.
OK.
Unfortunately, men aren't very good at getting help and advice even from other men, even from their own friends.
I agree with that. You continue first.
I kind of grew up living vicariously through my friends, and I would want to always get that advice and opinions and always observe what they're doing and how you know how they're doing it and try to learn from from what they're doing. Even until now, it's not very easy to sit down and go, Guys, I'm going through this. Yeah, I need some help. Yeah, it's
OK.
I mean, for me, I'm a bit more open, but I know a lot of guys who would rather just like help themselves. Yeah. And I don't really know where that comes from or why. Maybe because the of the belief that no matter what my friends see, it's my life and these are my experiences and my thoughts. And this is why I am. So there's no point looking elsewhere. I would rather look inward, which is not a good, which is not a bad way of looking at it. I think that
sometimes you kind of internalize everything.
Yeah, yeah. Because sometimes your judgment is clouded by your own cognitive biases, your own experiences, your own emotions. When you're very close to the situation, you can't really see it for what it is. So that's unfortunate. And I think, most importantly, is just having that avenue to reinvent yourself.
And yeah, it's healthy.
I've seen this thing where people, when people are venting right, the first question you ask is, are we here to look for solutions? Or we had to vent which. So I sold out on Facebook and I say, Wow, that's a really good way of approaching things.
It's true because sometimes all you want is an outlet. And I have to say this because sometimes when my partner and I fight for it, he will go off with himself and just sort of process it or whatever. And the first thing that I do is call my girlfriends like the person who's texting the group chat, Oh my god, guys, this happened in like voice. No. Yeah. And say, Let's see the fight. It's like, very bad.
And maybe, perhaps we don't really talk to each other for a couple of days, or we want to take some time out and not get into any more fights or abrasive conversations anymore. I can spend the next two or three days confiding in three separate group of friends. Our producer is laughing right now because she knows it's true. And then when I ask you when we finally, you know, come together and say, Look, when you discuss, you know, let's let's let's lay it out and resolve this a bit.
So did you share with your friends? And he's like, No, no, what do you mean? You didn't show a single person? I literally share with my entire social life. He was like, What? He's so cute. I mean, as as far as it goes, you might just share with the one guy friend that he trusts or talks and even saw it end in 30 minutes. And like I said, I went all day. I was six hours talking about the same thing.
I have definitely noticed. It's that women will always tell their friends will always tell their friends, will always and not just one social circle. You need to, you know, get it out there.
Yeah. And it's like a brand new story every time, you know?
So I don't know if that's a very good idea, because if it's if it's a couple of fight and you're letting the whole world
know you wanted to keep it between is a personal problem.
Yeah, because what happens is when the fight is over, you may forgive this person, but your friends may not necessarily have forgiven. May not have agreed if your decision to forgive.
Maybe see see your partner in a different way.
Oh, see your friend spotted them differently.
Yeah, that's what I meant. Yeah, yeah.
So then what happens is it can have a negative impact on the relationship because the next time you guys fight, and if you were to tell this friend again, this friend is already has already has a bias. Yeah, yeah. And this the thing about confiding in friends. Your friends will always have a bias.
Yeah. And you'll always be on your side regardless. Well, most of the time,
most of the time or relative may be more empathetic. Yes.
Yeah. So I think, you know, we've covered quite a wide variety of examples, stories, experiences, everything. Let's wrap it up with this question for you. Why do you think masculinity is so important to most men, and is this something that needs to change?
I think I think it stems from insecurity. I think that people. Find it easier to fall into norms and rules that have been around for a long time. It's easier to do that and go like, OK, this is what it means. It's a very textbook answer. I'm going to work to become this. Yeah, I'm not going to be the sole breadwinner,
you know, by the house. Do this, do that
like this is what it means to be a man. I'm going to work to become this person rather than look inward and become who I am and be OK with that
and embrace it.
Yeah, because I mean, to me, ultimately being a man is integrity. It's doing the right thing, even in the face of adversity, adversity. And that's not gender specific.
I know. And you know, I feel like the ideal and I guess in a way when you are looking for the ideal partner or in my case, I do, man and all that right. I think to me is not so much of like all like how well you take care of your physique. And it's more do you take care of me as a partner? Are you consider it? Are you conscientious? You know you are. You also someone who wants to keep your mental and physical health in check? I think that's also important taking care of yourself. And
then in turn, taking care of your partner. It's an ecosystem, right? Like, everything sort of is like a well-oiled machine. Yeah, one is doing good and so on. Yeah.
Yeah, because you impact your partner that way. And if your partner maybe doesn't struggles, if if self-care, then you can impact that knowledge. Yes, but ultimately just falling into a norm because it's the norm without questioning it and changing yourself to suit this norm, suppressing yourself or trying to be something you're not. It's not sustainable. You can't like. That's why. So suicide rates for men are very high.
Depression rates are very high or higher than women. And there's a reason for that because I feel like women are a lot more likely to express themselves, whereas men are like, No, it's not. The many thing to do is the man's role to which is, I got this not sustainable at all.
Yeah, no, I totally agree. So I think to wrap this up nicely, you know, it is important for you to be in touch with your emotions, your feelings to also realize that it's OK to ask for help. It doesn't matter if you're a guy or whatever, it doesn't matter. I think it's just so important to do some introspection, reflection as well and realize that it's OK to even go for therapy. I think that's something that is such a big conversation. Ariana Grundy is doing like $2 billion
worth of giveaways with better health now. It's not wrong. So she's encouraging people to also seek help. Go for therapy, talk about your, your feelings and your problems.
Actually unknown, right? Yeah. Being vulnerable to strangers, you know, friends, because sometimes it's the hardest to be vulnerable to your own family members, closest friends.
That is the hardest thing to do.
Yeah, that takes courage. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I feel like courage is a very masculine. Yeah. You know,
call pretty sexy.
Yeah, exactly.
Food. Yeah, I totally agree. Thank you so much for being with us. Thank you. I had a great conversation with you. I mean, this is an interesting first meeting topic. You know, usually would be like, you know, how are you? What's your favorite color? But that's very flattering, actually. Was that something I never I never ask someone for their favorite color? You know, I think the next episode will be how to flirt. Yes. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Men Explain. If you like
what you heard, please hit the follow button. We're available on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Also, please follow us at its Clarity Echo and Instagram and Facebook for more content like this. We'll see you next time.