Welcome to another episode of Men Explained, where we give our most unhinged selves, right, Avery? I think unhinged is a perfect word for today because we've got two of the most unhinged people on TikTok and it's not. It's these two right here with us. Oh my gosh, welcome to the show, Dewey and Ryan. How are you guys feeling?
I'm so happy I'm
back. OK, but we're going to dissect this because we know that we have a lot of different opinions and also generational opinions, I would say because entrepreneurs of different generations will have different views, I feel. Yeah, and today we're going to be breaking down your businesses as Gen Zs and how you guys started a business and how it feels in the world of entrepreneurship as a child, sorry, not child, as a Gen Z. How old are you? I don't want to he's still
a child. My mind is a mind of 11 year olds. Alright, so let's break it down first. How old are you guys? How old do you think we are? Just answer the question. It's
actually, um,
I'm gonna say 24 this year, yes, but I'm still 23 223 I'm 2 this year. You're 20 this year. He's very young. Wait, how do you guys then meet? Is it through the creator community or? Now that we know your ages, how old were you guys when you started your first business? We know that you guys did this thing called Afterlife for a while, right? Or why to laugh in the afterlife.
I mean, I started, it was 2 years ago, right? I was 17.
I wasn't even allowed to drink. No, but
like I couldn't even enter the club. I still remember because at that point in time, you know, when like everybody wanted to go party and everything, and I was like, oh, I also want to go and then I realized, right, that like clubbing is damn expensive in Singapore. OK, especially like a 17 year old, right? I was like, Wow, paying like $40 to go in first
of all, 17 year olds are not supposed to club. So yeah,
1717.
So what made you guys want to do that? I was the one that started the idea. I think because it was after COVID and then there was a rise in like just clubbing culture and then a lot of organizers came on the scene and then there was this one organizer, so he would invite a lot of creators to like events and then like a lot of people would turn up to these events because they are creators going and then we share about it, right? And I was looking at my friend and I was like, wait,
we can totally do this. We're the one bringing the crowd. I also want to do my own kinds of parties where we have like our own unique ideas and we really build on the community building. Aspect of like a club. If you realize through all our events, right, we always have events or like activities throughout the party that will have people mingling, you know, so we want to have icebreakers or not just like
go there, drink boring. So I got this other guy to do it with me, this other creator, and then I was like, oh, I need someone to do PR for us, like someone to do marketing, and then that was Ryan. So my diploma was in events management, so I could do like the on ground and I like doing that, like the lights, the music. The sets and whatnot and then the other guy was doing design and then he was in charge of marketing and PR yeah, at that point in time.
So at that point of time I was just like, OK, I like to make money, right? I mean, who doesn't? So I was like, let's try to like get as many sponsors. It was our first ever event. Um, I told them that like I didn't want to like start with like a loss, right? So let's let's just try to find a way that we can get the money to secure the location to get, you know, so we are not loaning from anyone, you know, I don't want to go through any of that. So our first sponsor.
I remember they came in clutch, they sponsored our first ever event, so all the money that we made from our first event throughout the whole entire Afterlife, um, was reinvested back into the company. So just kind of
let it roll. So that's why we started I actually. The capital built from Afterlife was used to start up IO we actually started with. Why the switch then because we noticed that is dying is dying. You think so? We saw it coming. Like now if you look at the news, no, is empty Holland. a lot of the pubs and bars are
empty. If you look at the analytics of our events, right, because after every event I was just looking back into like the finance and everything, and I'm just like, wow, last time we could like sell out an event like 500, 700 packs in like what, two weeks and then nearing like the start of like, I mean 2 years last year, yeah, it was like very slow already. I was like wait what is going on?
I think it's like when the post-COVID revenge partying died down. I think it was. Yeah, at one point I think Aces and I were going out like 3 times a week maybe twice. No, but I think, I think it's different for us because Sosa and I actually we met at work and then we became really close and we started partying together and then COVID hit and we stopped, right? Everything became
super wholesome like she she became domesticated. She cooks, she cooks soup for me, you know, yeah, but then after that, when it started again and partying happened, that's when we were like, oh my God, we missed this, you know, yeah, but this is coming from two millennials, right? Were people at your parties, right? Were they Gen Z as well?
Yes, mostly mostly Gen Z. So do you think it's because you guys were Gen Z creators or do you think it's because you guys were Gen Z entrepreneurs that you guys drew a Gen Z crowd to the party scene? Definitely Gen Z creators. I don't think anyone saw us as entrepreneurs at that point in time. We were just organizers, you know. It's a bit of both because you also know what you guys like, like what your friends like,
and that's what you were doing too, right? So like Gen Z and whatever was like trending at that point in time. We really niche in on like Gen Z. trends and like like for example, our Halloween party was called Villain era and it's very show up in like villain costumes. Yeah, just like an inflatable dick, you know, we've seen this guy. OK, so then segueing into your new business, how did that change then? So
like right now I think ever since like the nightlife site, right, we were like, OK, it's not working, right, we got to like pivot and then the one thing that I realized very quickly was that a lot of brands out there. I want to get onto the TikTok app, right? But then they don't have a team of Gen Zs or like people who are actually using the app to actually understand the kind of landscape that they are dealing with.
So we realized that a lot of millennials want to touch, like reach out to the Gen Z, but like they don't know how. So we were like, hey, TikTok is like our realm. I've been doing TikTok for like 5 years now, you know what I mean? Like it's changed so much and like we've right through that change, you know. So we were like, OK, you know what, maybe we can be the middle ground to help these brands who want To like grow to like reach out to like the
Gen Zs and let us help them, you know. So I think that was that was what we started to think of and then moving like a little bit deeper, we realized that like Gen Zs will be the next replacement market. A lot of brands right now don't look at the replacement market which are Gen Z, which will eventually be the ones spending on their brand. You can focus on the ones that are spending right now, but you can't forget about the replacement market,
yeah, you just need to bring awareness. You know, I feel the idea of entrepreneurship has changed so much from our parents' generation to our generation to their generation. In the past, it was always seen as always very risky. It's very like, you got to really be careful with what you do if you want to start a business. And then I think with the millennials, it was more of like they were starting things like starting cafes, it changes, right?
And then the younger millennials started becoming a bit more like risk takers. They're like, OK, we can use social media to start and then it comes to you guys. I will say that it's it's a shift that even while you're talking about it, right? Talk about like starting a business, right? The first thing that comes to mind is how much capital do we have, right? But you see the difference between the two of them was I'm not going to have capital. I'm going to
find sponsors to pay for that. So it's always a difference in that risk. Yes, it's a risk, but for us it's like we got to have a certain amount to blow when they're like, we don't want to spend any money and it worked for them. Exactly. So the perspective changed over the years I would say. But do you think it's because you guys are Gen Zs or because you guys were creators that you guys thought. We've got a bit more leverage to do this.
Like realistically speaking, I think afterlife at that point in time wasn't like our main thing, right? We all had our own social media careers before that. So in terms of risk, if any of us think we said this before, like if we needed to pump in money, we know that we can, but like let's just try to not do that, you know what I mean. But also at the
same time, because you guys started so young, right, do you think there was a time where people weren't really taking you seriously? They were like, Oh, they're just doing it for fun. Yeah,
so the other day during, um, we had like lunch together with the whole entire team and then one of the representatives told us that like, hey, you know, before we sign you right, actually we didn't really believe in like your agency because like you and Dey are like and the other partner was like the face of it, and then you guys do like just heha kids and then we don't know whether to take your seriously to
like represent our brand. Like it was quite what the hell lah, but at the end of the day we made them so much money, so I'm just like, you know what, you can take that and shove it up your ass, you know, like.
I think a lot of other Gen Zs would actually feel the same way because I think age is a very big thing, especially in the community and the social structure that we live in in Singapore. It's always going to be like, you know, oh, you're too young, you don't know what you're doing.
I heard that a lot so often and I think like a lot of people just and and I still till today like just not just finished a meeting, right, and then the person asked me, oh, so how old are you? And 9 out of 10 times I would never answer that question because I just know that once I do, right, they'll be like, oh. Yeah, do they have the expertise to do this? But at the same time, you know, it's like we know our shit so well that like we know the space,
you know what I mean? Like if you don't trust us, you can go to another agency, but I just know that you're going to regret it because once you come back, it's going to be more expensive.
You know what I mean. Do you think it's wrong for people to think that like to look at the number of years of experience as something that they want to consider before hiring? Because I know sometimes when we talk, OK, how long have you been hosting? That's fair. For 10 years versus someone 01 year, then likely they might go for the person who has had more experience, right? So do you feel like the number of years of experience is extremely important?
I think it's slightly different. I think the number of years of experience definitely matter, but I think the point that I want to bring across here was that like they ask us how old we are. For example, like I started content creation since I was like taking my O levels, you know what I mean? 5 years in, like that's my experience, but just because I'm 20.
Oh, it's a bit too young, but I still have 5 years of experience, you know, like some other agencies have never got on TikTok at all, maybe last 1 year, 2 years, you know, so I think the number of experiences do matter, but like when clients see us as like, oh, we are too young in terms of like age, I think that's why I have a problem with, you know what I mean?
Yeah. Obviously, um, we're talking about gender as well. So when you guys are there, who's more front facing when you guys are meeting clients, you are. So I'm going to be very honest about this. Um, a lot of the times when we speak to clients, I always let Ryan take the lead. I'm very, I like to be on the ground. I like to just do things behind the doors. I just work with my
team because I'm not going to lie lah. I don't know is it because of my persona online or is it because of my gender, you know, I don't want to put him on anything, but I do realize that sometimes people take him more seriously compared to me when they have something serious, they didn't want to bring up to like the higher ups in I go right, they go to him. Yeah, very rarely they come to me, only if I've really talked to that person and I've built trust with them.
So then to me, I will just take a step back. I'm OK to let him find you. Um, sometimes, but sometimes I will ask myself, oh, is it because of my gender, or is it because of the persona that I have online, but I try not to blame those kind of things because those things are not things that I can change, but right now I know I'm young, I'm a girl, those are facts, but what I can do is to just be credible enough
that people will respect me, maybe in the future. This is what I'm trying to build right now because I am still young, you know,
and I see that like sometimes like the clients like reach out to me and then Dewey is just like. You know, I actually I texted the client already, but the client never replied to me, but then I texted the client like 2 minutes instant reply, you know, and as a business partner, right, I got to tell the client like, hey, um, Dey texted you as well, and I think I would appreciate like if you could promptly reply to her as well because we are the same, you know what I mean?
You're trying to make it work, but is there a difference in the way that the two of you communicate? Like what's your communication style with clients? We're both very formal. I cannot imagine. It's a difference. I mean, for example, I'm a client and you want to, if we're just bumping on this, I just need a few things back from you and then I'll list it on point form very clearly. Let me know when I can get back to you if you need a call, just let me know. I'm very, very like circle back.
Corporate lingo guys like we're not like that,
but that's good to know because sometimes people might have this preconceived notion of what they see on social media and think that that's what they're going to get. I think because we
have very loud personalities online, right? But then at the same time like people don't know that there's another side of us, you know, like, sure, you know, like, but.
That's what
the hell?
You won't know until you find out, I always say this, right, that as long as you have a personality online, the world thinks that they can have an opinion of who you are as a person based off that, right? Yeah, I always, always. I want to ask you as well, right, because I know this person? Is this person my podcast partner? No, I was going to ask you, right, how old were you when you said that you wanted to try and do something outside of radio in your own personal space
like entrepreneurship wise? If you remember, I did do F&;B for a little bit with a bunch of other partners like we ran a barakaya style sort of place, and I was about 26 when we started talking about it. But it was a period of time where I was still building my brand because I didn't start as early as you guys. I started like when I was 21 into radio and into all this, and I'm not naturally a person that would be like, yes, I'm in front
of the camera like that was not actually in my nature. Yeah, I was more of like I want to write and be a journalist, that kind of person. I'm not this, no, I never expected myself to do this. I took a while to like build that, you know, and we also were at a time where there was like no TikTok, it was only Instagram, right? And then at 26 there was an opportunity that presented itself. If it wasn't an opportunity that came by, maybe I would not have even taken it, you know what I mean?
Based on that, right, let's say you're looking at both. Kind of entrepreneurship situations, right, as a millennial and as a Gen Z, do you guys see any similarities or is it a lot of differences?
I think it's quite similar in the sense that like when opportunity is given, right, that's that's where I go. You should take it, you should take it because if we didn't have our first client, right, it's very hard to prove to our other clients that we actually know what we're doing. Until today, I'm still so grateful.
very first client JBL, you know, like, thanks for signing with us, you know, because of that, right, we still use your account as like um yeah, I need to circle back because a lot of people feel like it's very tough to be so young and create like an impression to like the older people, right? I don't want to say this, but like how older people just give these young people a chance because you never know they could actually make more of a difference than like what. Your bubble, you know.
Does it make you more motivated to win over other people when you get treated in a sort of a not so nice manner or when people doubt you? Does that give you more fuel and motivation? Yeah, so circling back to the whole thing a lot more corporate lingo. My email says sent by my iPhone. Yeah, no, going back to the part where I talked about how I feel um like I'm not taking it seriously because I'm a girl and I have my own
online persona, right? So sometimes I would lie in bed and like ask myself, do they see me as a clown?
No,
they don't. Did you see a clown? Oh well, you know, it's not my fault. I'm funny. Yeah, I will literally have like identity crisis. I will ask myself, like, do I need to change who I am online so that they will take Iko seriously? So there's this like, I feel this conflict sometimes right between like the detri persona and the Iko persona because people see me in offices and they're like, Hey, you're actually normal. I'm like, yeah, then you think what? You think I'm
just crazy. This is normal. I mean, yeah, so I've always wondered if I should just tone myself down, but then I realized like. No, we
had this conversation before,
what I want to work towards now as I say, is to just like let my accomplishments speak for itself. Honestly, the best way to prove people wrong is through your own success. that's what I feel. You don't need to even say anything or like they can just
see for themselves, you know,
you know, we all see this online as well. You don't present yourself as a traditionally masculine man, right? It's very prevalent about that and you are very open about that. Has clients or people in general ever turned away because of this thing or they treated you a little bit differently because of
that? Differently definitely have. I think it goes both ways. Like, for example, if it is a beauty client, well I think 90% I can close, you know what I mean like I literally embody what this Sephora Squad, I do beauty that's my whole entire content. I'm doing it for 4 years now, right? But then if it comes to like more like those tech lifestyle. Kind, I find myself actually like dressing
down or muting.
Yeah, so it sucks to say this, you know, but there was once I went into a meeting and then I had like one of my employees inside as well, right? The person didn't even look at me. The person just looked at my employee like talking to him as if like he runs the place and he knows that.
Do you think it's because some people generally don't know what to say or they feel awkward? Are they of a different generation or different mindset? It is the older generation, right, so maybe they don't know how to approach or like
I mean it could be that um I don't want to like say like oh because I wear makeup because maybe you could you could maybe they scared, you know what I mean, I don't know, but it did like it did kind of affect me a little bit because I was just like, wow, my son like wow, become like a man like what's up bro, you know, like I
mean obviously, well, you know, side tracking a little bit, there was, this was quite recent. I overheard a conversation at another table of older generation, right, and there was a guy that walked past that was like doing shoots. This guy was wearing like more of a feminine outfit with heels, and I overheard this other guy say, Wow, guys wear heels now. The other one said, don't look, don't look. I
don't know, definitely,
yeah, so I think they're just awkward, like they don't know how to react. They don't want to make you feel uncomfortable, but in turn they actually so how would you Navigate this.
I think for me at the end of the day, right, I got to put my personal feelings aside if I want to grow the brand, right? So if it makes the client more comfortable, and I know it sucks for me to say this because I got to like dumb myself down, but like if that is what it takes to to close the client and make them feel comfortable, that's what I would do. But I must say that I want I could to go to the day where I don't have to do this anymore. Like if you want to come to me, you.
Come to me. If not, I don't need your business, you know what I
mean? I like the confidence here, like, you know, if you want to come to you want, don't want, don't want. But what if people come through with like, Hey guys, I think you could have done this better. Are you open to that kind of criticism of course,
of course. I think, I think our agency grew quite a lot from the start and thanks to our interns, our employees, yeah, you know what, maybe you can do this differently, maybe you all can subscribe to. This like HR plan, you know what I mean it really it really you know ecosystem, you know.
So you guys are actually very, very much open to like change and everything. I always sit down and ask them like what do you think can be done better. It's really good because I feel that not generalizing it as a generational thing or what, but I think I've definitely heard this before where people say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And that also indicates that there's not much. Change or progress.
But also like context is that we are a smaller company, so we can do that, you know what I mean because I know a lot of bigger companies like oh because higher management say already but like in our company especially, I think we want to make it very clear that like be your intern, your employee, like we all share the same level in terms of like how we can improve the company together.
How many people are there in your company? 12. Older than you or younger than you guys around all right because I was going to say that if you guys hired somebody who is older, do you think was there an issue? How much older?
28
and did they see it in a situation where, oh, you're younger, you don't know what you're talking about, even though you're my bosses. OK, so the employee was very nice, right? He was lovely to work with. But I think when it comes down to like conflicts when I have to. Tell him you can't do this. And when I'm very
stunned about it, right? I'm not going to lie, I think it kind of like hurt his ego a little bit, knowing that someone so much younger is telling him that and it never feels great, but it has to be done. And don't worry, I'm not an abusive boss. I'm always very like no one thought you were. I'm very constructive. I'm like, this is wrong. You do this. I'm not going to call your name.
Or whatever, you know what I mean? But then like I think he couldn't take it and then I saw him broke down because of that and I felt so bad for him. Yeah, then he told me that like he want to go somewhere else to work. So I was like, you know what, I'm happy for you. What do you say is completely right, right? The way that you approach a situation, it's not about calling them names,
it's how you say it, right? Not that way where it's like it's, you know, yeah, but I'm trying to be her, OK, you get, you get my point. Wait, wait, wait, you actually spoke to me like that. Yeah, sometimes I don't do it no but because sometimes if I'm very serious, right, OK,
wait, wait, I must just say when Dewey is I get scared.
A lot of them just cry. But then again I also feel like it's the strawberry generation, and I can say that because I'm a Gen Z. Really, you only need to stop crying, OK. But
like genuinely don't how
to feel. Grow up. So you guys seem really close outside of work. That's right. Has this ever taken a toll on your friendship before and what is the reality of doing a business together? I mean, I know that we're talking a lot about like your clients dealing with them, the glamorous side of things, and almost tell us what is the reality of things. It's great. I love Ryan so much. He's my best friend. But you have a fight? No, we have our fight. in one hour.
we don't, we don't carry on. I feel like don't hold
grudges tiring.
You want to go and bring on so long
for one to assess the fight and then we come up with solutions and then we conclusion. That's it. Give us one very strategic one example of a fight that you guys have. I was asking him, oh, I'm gonna get to sponsor. I ask him, what color you want, you say he wants red color. OK, I love you I got you, but I'm like, I'm not gonna have 3 red color chairs just like spiraling in my office. So he got every other thing else for like our office, right? Like
he got the water dispenser. He didn't run through me, but I'm like, get it, whatever. I did the whole it also red water. Yeah, I let him choose all the colors and the things for office. I kind of trust him, but because I'm getting a goin chair. So I was like, you know what, I'm going to make the decision to choose black chairs instead because I just think it's easy on the eyes. So you all basically fought over the colors of the chairs. Yeah, so then when the chairs, right,
he realized it was black. I was like, Why didn't you tell me that it's gonna become black? I said, uh, but you also didn't tell me that the water dispenser is gonna be the $80 dispenser. I thought we're getting the $3 dispenser from Shopei. You know I mine. Then after that it became a fight, he's like, why didn't you tell me? I should have been. No I'm like, but you didn't tell me other things too and I let you have the executive position. So you all kind of just worked it out.
I want to share a bit more about um how the company started with more than just both of us. I mean, as nice as you want to make it seem right, like it's not all like happy like this company because it really wasn't like it was quite rough, I would say like we started off with 3 different people when we first incorporated our company and now it's just me and Dewey, and I think if like you're a young entrepreneur, right?
Um, and you and you're planning to like start something with like your friend, I think the most important thing is to have similar working styles because I think a lot of conflicts will come up when you guys work very differently. So, Like you got to know who you're working with, babes, because even for us, right, we kind of didn't like each other when we first I
hated him. We hated each other when we first started working, but I saw his value and I knew he was a really smart guy, and I was like, I want this person on my team. Yeah, and then we actually became best friends through working together. So I want to debunk this, right? A lot of people always say, Oh, will you fight with your friends or like don't go into business with your friends. Don't get money. I just like to say that. We do it now. No, but didn't you just say
that you guys didn't like each other? Yeah, but because of I go we became so close. So technically you didn't go into business as friends. We were friends, but we weren't like close friends, you know, we were like friend.
It was like she's just there, you know, but then I started to like
her. No, but I just want to say that. I don't believe that businesses breaks friendship. I feel like it shows you whether or not your friendship can actually tie to hard times. And
some people are better off as friends than business partners. I think that's what we realized and especially when we had to like let go one of our business partners, right? I think it was, it was not easy definitely. We were at our old office, we all sat in the room together and we were like, so what is your
vision for for ICO, you know? And then I think We, we sooner or later realized that like the other partner had like different plans and we were like, OK, you know what, if you're going to double down and put 110% because we're gonna, we just moved to our new office, so we were like, it's just gonna be us then, you know, and then bye bye. I think deep down he also kind of wanted to leave, so
I think he wanted to pursue other things. I mean, no hard feelings. He just had other pursuits in life. I am happy for him and I want him to do well, but I have to be very honest and say that like the company really tested our friendship and I've realized that like. We don't align on a lot of things, but that's OK. He's still a great person. I think he's still talented in his own ways. He's happier now and I'm happy for him. So speaking of, yeah, we know friends and
all that that get involved into businesses. I'm sure you guys shared it with your families too.
My dad is, he's his own entrepreneur, he has his own business and whatever he does events like he does weddings. So when I told him, I think he was trying to relieve his like youth in me, you know, like I was like, well, let me give you some advice. So it was very nice and the point. time when we were doing afterlife as well, right, like a lot of props for not that we need, I could just like, hi, do you have like extra or whatever. So I really felt like there was like a backing,
you know. I saw my mom, like she was really proud of me to just start something on my own and when I told her that I was doing with Dewey because my mom loves Dewey, you know, so she was like, oh my God, let's, you know, can't wait to see where she's going, and I think like the point that they really was like, OK, this is like legit was when we just moved to our recent office. They came and stopped by and they were like, wow, you're actually like
Doing it and that was when I almost cried. I was like, wow, you know, like, like that validation from like my parents just felt like it was everything.
Oh. That's really sweet. What about you? I was doing social media and they're just like, What are you doing? I'm like, I'm a creator. No, because my, my actually my dad, I don't think he understands what I'm doing till now, right? He's like, What are you doing? So I tell him like, Oh, was she got Mingxing, meaning I'm like a superstar. That's it. So I think he still thinks I'm like a superstar.
Or whatever. So now, now that you own Iko and you run Iko and you explain this to him like, Dad, look, I run like a marketing agency and whatnot, is he more receptive and is he more like, oh, I get that now. OK, I'm going to be honest. I feel like I'm not at that stage where my parents will look at me and be like. That's much, you know what I mean, I feel like my parents set the standard for me at like the sky. I have to be on Forbes or something, then my father would be like, oh.
Legitim own an agency. I thought you were unemployed so now they just still think that you're xing. Yeah, no, but I think it's very normal for anyone in the media industry, right? I'm very lucky that my parents were in media, so they were very supportive of like media because I had other friends and people whom I've dated before, right, you know, whose mom and dad didn't approve of them dating me because they're like, what's she doing in media?
What do they even do? And this is this is pre-TikTok, pre-instagram, you know, it's like I'm still in school studying like. What? God, what do they do? And that that perception is already there. The I until they see me on the poster or the bus stop or the TV, then I'm like, oh, OK, she's doing something as a small company, what are some things that you guys have experienced that that you guys want to spill some tea maybe young entrepreneurs
maybe because I do a lot of the pitching a lot of clients. I tell you. No, a lot, a lot of them, right, they were like, I guess are quite new, ah, maybe, uh, your retainer package, you all give us, I can give us free la. You give me 3 videos free, OK. Then after I will ask my friend sign with you so, trust me, the friend doesn't exist, OK. Then like, yeah, or maybe ah it too expensive for you're 2 year old only you all can charge so high man lower lower for me, OK, the thing is like.
If we say OK, we're just devaluing ourselves, and the thing is that we need to pay people, you know, so I just feel because we are young, they just feel like they can just, OK la, take advantage of them because I see
that we are giving you a chance. That's the thing, yeah. They feel like you need them more than they need you,
but they need the help the social media, you know what I mean. No, and then also because me and you are creators, right, a lot of them will be like, OK, OK, beside you, ah, then inside the video you and be inside, OK, it's
like. They asked us to post on our account, but the thing is that we charge for that. That's different, you know I mean it's not fair to my other clients who actually pay good money for me to produce videos for them, and then they want to load our face some more. Maybe
you can try, but you never, you know, like, girl,
what is something that has happened. With Iko, right, or maybe as young entrepreneurs, right, that's going to like blow our minds. I think this thing happened to us and it made me realize that it doesn't matter how many followers I have. I'm a small company and and if something happens and I need to take legal action, I don't actually have that much backing to go against a big company. So this is what I'm going to talk about the time that we got scammed.
So Afterlife is under ICO and before Afterlife was gone, ICO was already running. So we actually did an event for a client with the Afterlife name. So we actually brought in our organic customers. It was a nightlife event.
So the practice is every time after a night, what the club would do, the manager, he will like run out the receipt from the cash register to show you all the transactions from the night, so we know exactly what's our commission because As organizers, we do take a commission of all the alcohol sold for the sales of the night. So this company, right, this sucky company this event right was fully packed.
We sold out so quick. People were lining up at the lift trying to get in. OK, we were
full rack, right? And then my manager, he closed a lot of tables because he's a very buddy buddy guy. He closed a lot of tables and a lot of those uh openers were like. His friends, and then we were like, OK, it's a great night. Can't wait to see how much we've made. And then at the end of the night, right, when my manager asked him, Oh, can you draw out the receipt of the transaction, this, they were like, No, no,
we can't do that. We can't do that. And we were like, so it's so strange because let me tell you, even some deals, right, can have the decency to draw out the receipt for me to show me that, OK, DVD is how much you make. This is a commission. Got it. OK, then we go home and settle finance. And then we were like, it's very strange why he die I don't want to draw out the sales check. And then after that, the day after, right, he told us,
oh my God, he texted us, he texted us saying that like
I
I'm catching its
scared.
So the next day, OK, so context is that for every event, right, our commissions would be around like 4 to 5 digits,
5 digits. Our events always do 5 digits in sales, always be
humble a bit, OK.
OK, OK, OK,
so when we receive, ah, do you know how much the person put, so the person sent us a text, you be like, Oh, your total night Carlos, all the bottles and all the drinks is $4,339
which is like 50% of what you would usually no, like 20%,
it was a fully packed event, so it didn't make sense at all.
Wait alcohol is so expensive, right? Let's be real. And then I was like, OK, if it's 4K, can you show me? The proof like
one table alone right can be up to like 4 or 5k. Like
what on earth did they order? It's press a button, give me the transaction. If it's 4K, fine, whatever. I'll just take my commissions off of that. But he I don't want to show me, so I know he's playing this stupid ass game. And then I had to tell him like, uh, you cannot do this to us. OK. I was like, I can speak to your call my lawyer. Then you call. lie. We're so small.
But then she called me and then I'm like, what to do, so we tried to like to like threatenen we will call the police. I wasn't gonna call the police, but I was like it was so tough because like we couldn't defend ourselves, you know what I mean? Like even if you wanted to, right, what lawyer fees over like the commission card is like not worth it if the lawyer is gonna be so expensive.
Correct, correct, but after you go for the situation, if you win the case, they will pay for your loyal fees. If you win,
we do not know that. But
that's the thing, we were so small that we cannot even now to this day you still haven't got the money. So there's no resolution.
I talked to the boss and then the boss was like, OK, if you're not happy with it, then you can proceed with like um what is it called filing a lawyer's letter, and then I was just like. Huh, then now what do I do? You know, I really tried to everything and then, OK, you want, you go. I'm like, where do I go now have the money to drag it out, you know, 10,
200 is a lot to a small company. If I was in your position, wouldn't you use your position as influencers and as people to do that and be like, you know, look, we've been scammed. Did you guys think of that? We didn't, but we don't want to portray us as influencers that will wear the dirty laundries of like our.
It will link back to our brand as a whole. Like if any new brand will be like, I work then they don't like me then I'll make no it's a very bad look for us.
Honestly, the netizens and people already think that if we have any sort of influence online like, oh, so you know you only get this kind of treatment because you're like that of course you and people like attend to you. I get what you mean. And also
because like can you imagine how crazy it sound that we say that like oh we didn't get this part of money and it's like not small money, a lot of money. like, hey, I didn't get like 5 digit commission. Like they're going to be like, What the hell, you know what I mean, wouldn't like
it's a tough it's a tough situation to be in, but like, I don't know if there are any lawyers tuning in right now, please advise them what to do because it's never too late to turn it around. Do you still want to pursue this situation? The guy got fired, by the way. Yeah, that's the thing. It's been so long. How long has it been? 1 year?
1.5 years I
think. It's too long to reopen. OK. A grudge can be held forever. Do you think that. That kind of like set you back and you were like, oh this is such a terrible situation like we're going to give up or like you know you were so angry,
let's make more money.
Don't go down without a fight, my friends. Guys, thank you so much. That was so much fun. OK, before you leave though, since I'm sure a lot of other young entrepreneurs or aspiring entrepreneurs look up to you and other Gen Z entrepreneurs, what do you have to say to them?
Actually, just do it. Like don't don't have to think that like you must like have like a large amount of capital. Because actually, right, you can work around it. First of all, like you start a party, right, you can collect the
money first, you know what I mean? You sell the tickets first, collect the money, then we use it to cover the cost of the rental, and then we just tell the vendor, Hey, maybe I pay you after the event, you know, like there's always ways to like, you don't need to like fork out so much money at the start. So don't be afraid by that. Just try because you never know where it will go. If you fail, right, I always tell myself I'm so young, at least I try because if I'm older, right, I have no time
to try this kind of thing. So just try YOLO, man, do it.
I also a lot of. They are launching a new product, right? It's before you even actually launch it and sell it on whatever store you're selling on. You can already do the marketing, like make content about it, see if you actually have a crowd for it. Once you feel like, OK, you have the crowd for it, you have like 1000 followers or 500 followers, people are ready to buy your product and receive it, then you sell it, right? The win is more guaranteed that way, yeah, or you can do pre-order,
so there's a few ways to go about it. Yeah. So I also feel like, especially when you're young, right, just do it. You have nothing to lose. everything to gain. That's why I always tell myself. Like I don't have a family. I might not be able to have this freedom when I'm in my 30s, when I'm a responsibility. So just do it. You're gonna learn so much about yourself and it'll be so fun and be consistent. Don't just give up. Don't give up.
It's gonna get tough.
Yeah, there are some days where you ask yourself, why the hell you start your company? Like me every day when I walk into my office and I ask myself why I have this overhead, so expensive and my blacklet chair that I love so much. OK, and the $80 water dispenser. That I love so much. I love so much, OK. We're gonna get there someday because we are still getting there. Well, thank you guys so much for being here with us today on another episode of Men Explained. And if you're
watching at home, thank you as well. Please make sure to follow us on all our socials on Instagram, TikTok and on YouTube as well at itsclarity.co. That's right. If you're tuning into us from wherever it is and listening to us, yap and be super unhinged. That's Apple Podcast, Spotify, and me listen. So we'll catch you again next time. Bye