Welcome to another episode of Men explained today. Oh, boy. I mean, invested in this topic. We're talking about dating in or out of your league. Does that even exist? I've got two very special guests with me. It's already chaos. The moment I stepped in, say hi to Shawn and Nadia. Hi.
Hi, I am
Sean and I'm Nadia and I'm the better half of why would you
start off with this?
I'm not going to lie. I was waiting to see that in person. It's part of the topic, Sean you must get with it. Come on, I'm
assuming you are already above my leg. Yes, I'm,
I'm setting the stage first. Yeah. So you know where this flows?
I didn't put her on a pedestal.
We've got time to unpack this. Ok. We've got time to really discuss delve in and get into the nitty gritty details. Let's go. Yeah, let's go. Ok, so we're talking about dating Les here today. I'm sure that this has come up before. Subconsciously. Yeah. Sometimes we don't even realize it right when you talk amongst your friends, sometimes you go like, oh no, he's so you're so out of his league or like, now he's way below your league. Have you guys ever
heard of these phrases being thrown around? I feel like a guy has, has told me that before. Like, no, I like you but I think you are out of my league. I'm just like, I feel like you're better. Yeah, I was just like, why do you ever think that? That's so weird.
Yeah. A girl has never said I'm out of the league before. By the way, just putting out there,
I want to expand on that. Er, when this guy told you that, how did that make you feel? I just felt very weird because like, we are like classmates. Yeah, back then, like way back and I was like, I, I mean, it makes me feel good obviously. Like I'm like, 00, you think I'm great? But I just like, I don't want to feel that way even like, it's something that I want, I don't feel proud of because it feels like a, like a wall, right? Ok. Like, why would you,
which is weird that the guy said up front said that, right? Would
you ever say that even if you felt that way? I mean,
among guys when you discuss, like we discussed,
I don't
hear this. We were like, hey, you don't go for this girl and then we say like she a bit too up there for you. We will say some things among ourselves but it's a bit weird to tell the girl directly. Like, oh, I think you both.
So I want to break it down when you say, oh, she is way too ups for you or two or two, whatever, however you face it. What is your definition of that? Is it looks, is it intellect? Is it education? Is it what, or is it a combination disclaimer
here? Um, looks are not the only thing, it's the first impression, right? Yeah. So sometimes if let's say we see someone that, that, that looks like an influencer or a model immediately, most guys will go like, you know, a lot of guys chasing her. She, you know, I can, I can go for 11.
Really? Ok. So that is, that is your immediate thought? That is
what I hope most average guys feel that I feel as well. I hope I speak for every Singaporean out there.
But what about like getting to know the person better? Like what if you really click intellectually and on a different level, Sean is very good at like getting girls. Like he knows how to, he knows how to slip into, slide into the D MS and like, like chat them up. Ok? I would like to continue, continue like stuff I've heard, you know, like in the past, I'm like, always like very like short. I'm like, wow, a good man. Like he finished an opening line. May I
ask who I can I can give you one that, that, that she hates a lot.
Ok. Ok. I'm ready. I think I
know this already. So, uh, so, yeah. Oh,
no, I'm scared you should be, you should be.
What, what is the, the number of love, the
number of love?
What's, if love I would have a number. Right. What, what's the number of love
or you can't put a number to it? It's infinite.
That's a good answer. But, but I scientifically, I have a correct answer for you. OK. Right. Right. Right. So the number is actually 55. Yeah, because you show me number five,
you know how many times he has done on me? Oh my God. So then for you Nadia, you know, he's already shared what they talk about in their, their men chat. So in girl chat, for example, girl guys that, you know, you meet and like maybe potentially did all has this ever come up and have you shared this with your friends before? So like, I mean, I think, well, this is a bit tough because maybe it might make me sound a bit elitist somehow. OK? Like, OK, this is the open space. So you can also ask
me about my thoughts. OK? I'm sure that I say some unsavory things. I don't know. Go ahead. OK. Why I think I might be a bit elitist is because I want to find someone who is smarter than I am smarter than you Yeah, because I want to be inspired, you know, I want to be inspired by whoever I'm with like
how many, how many score?
Say no.
Yeah. How much was yours?
Yeah. So that's why I, I would like kind of look at the school sometimes. Fish, fish. OK. Kind of I said kind of, but it's not the be all and all it subconscious thing is it sometimes you just, yeah, it's a subconscious thing like, you know, because I know of some schools and I don't know of some schools. So if I sometimes I don't hear of some schools, I'm like, oh, like it just makes me look elitist but actually I'm just not aware sometimes. Ok, I get what you mean. I get it's not the
be all and every school is a good school. I know. I know. But I don't know, it was more like the education of the education I think also because grew up in Singapore. Yeah, it always like fit into our brains. Like no, you know, because everything enough on that note since, since you mentioned it, um one of my close friends, we were just having a chat, you know,
um typical girls chat, an average of six hours. And we, and we were talking about this and she brought up um this guy that she dated a couple of years back and she said, you know, like I never realized this, I didn't actually know which school he came from because I never talked about it because he never brought it up and he, she just found out recently that he actually didn't complete, er, I think he didn't go to JC or POLY or something like that.
And to her that made her feel quite shocked because I think in a society like Singapore we are so used to. Oh, you got to, you got to Chung all the way you finish your diploma, you get your degree. So to her, she was like, oh, I was shocked but then maybe that's why it explains that I couldn't get along with him to some extent because certain things that I wanted to talk about him, he could never really like continue the conversation. So I was like, oh really?
Like I didn't think I didn't think of that because I would not, that is not the first question that comes to my mind like what school are you from? But
they were together for
years. She never a year or so I think it just never came up for some reason, like they just never talked about
it. So let's say you were to, let's say you are on the market now and somebody hit you. But I'm from, I'm from secondary school.
What's up
like the most neighborhood school then? Would you automatically think neighborhood school? OK. You need to work harder to chase
me. Not necessarily that way, not from an elite school. I'm also just, you know, from a regular school, Anthony's whatsapp and, and you know, the thing, the thing about it is back then I met all kinds of people. Right. Like, you know, you meet people from boy school, from mix school, whatever. And I think, like, everyone comes together in a setting like poly where you don't, you would have never thought you meet, like, wow, such a wide variety of people.
And it strikes me that everyone is intellectual in their own way or, you know, they communicate in their own way. Maybe it's just not what you're used to. But if you're a bit more open minded, yeah, it's ok. Yeah. Can be more open mind. No. Ok. So that's why I wanted to continue and say, like, because of, ok, so, I mean, I talked to my girlfriend before about like, oh, like, oh, then they'll be like, where did, where did he come from? Like, oh, what school and all?
So when I, when I tell it to them and then they are like, uh, like, really? I'm just like, huh? But it's ok, like I'm ok with it. I'm just like, saying, like, this is what gets brought up sometimes but it's not all the time. Yeah, for sure. Especially in our country. I think
if you're watching this don't be so judgy. Hey,
are they dating or single or, um, dating? Dating? Yeah. Ok. Ok. So, aside from the education aspect, I mean, there are other things that we look at, you know, for example, financial status age, um, do these things pop up as well? Like when you look at a potential partner,
not when I say this right to me, I'm ok with, uh, if my partner earns more than me. Right. And like, I mean, in this day and age it's not, it's not a fast anymore. Right. I, I thought I told her, like, if my partner earns a lot, right? I will be the best stay at home dad for, for, you know, I'm going, when you're home, I'm going to make sure the food is, food is cold, the house is clean, everything. Hey, you just earn the money. I do anything else? That's
great. And why he says I hate it is because like what I said, I like someone with ambition. I don't want someone who, who desires to stay at home and calling me lazy and we all make I know, say you say yourself ok. So are you more of like a go getter? I feel I'm more of a go getter and more of a I would say I'm more alpha than the usual girl. And that's why I feel I need someone more alpha than I am, which is who's going out alpha. You ok? I am also not sure. So don't you
think sometimes you need, do you need a balance? You feel like, do you think? Yeah, you need a in your
life.
Actually I am. Although I, I think I'm a bit more alpha, I'm very simp. Like I am a simp. Ok. So I can be like the simp in the relationship. But I would really like someone who, who is driven, who knows what they want, at least, you know, like you don't have to be like a CEO, you know, you just need to know what you want to do with your life and like too lazy. Like no, not
for me, you can ask you both this question. So you're dating this guy, right? So this guy is just working at, let's say a random part time job. But he says his dream is to one day make it big as a musician. He's working on it but financially 8 50 an hour, but he's very driven. Would you consider at this stage? Now?
Actually, you, you, you interesting that you brought up at this stage because I think a different face calls for a different mindset. I think for me in this head space right now, I do need someone to like match up to my current ambition and phase of life and it, it, that's why it's always difficult for me to date people of the same age. I'm not saying that people of my age are not, don't have it together. But I think in general cause guys enter the workforce a little later.
So maybe they take some time as well and it doesn't help that I entered the workforce super early, like I entered when I was in school still. So, technically, it seems like I have a lifetime of work experience, but I was just working through my school days and then the early twenties and all that. Right. So, I think, unfortunately in this phase of my life I need to date someone who is a bit more stable. Yeah. Yeah.
And that's why my current partner is 14 years older. Ok. That is why I don't like dating apps because I don't like looking at it like it's a resume, you know? Ok. So I've never been on a dating app. Tell me why it's, it's horrible because I feel like at the end of the day I'm just swiping everyone away and I'm like, I'm such a horrible person. I'm just looking at everything at face value and just seeing what job they have, what school they are in, like, how old they are.
They do the same to you. Yeah. I know. But I don't like, it gets too technical. Like you just like, oh, ok. I'm just looking at your, your CV or something. Yeah. And I don't like that, that feeling. Yeah. So, in the end I just used it, like, twice and I, like, buy because I, I just feel horrible. Like, I'm judging based on their
looks and, like, just very superficial things. Yeah. But if I meet someone face to face, like, organically, I can even fall in love with someone who is, like, like way younger than I am or like, you know, like, er, not even financially stable as I am. Yeah. So that's why it's very different. I agree because when you look at the, the stats on the dating app, for example, you are already seeing out what you think you don't want right before you even get to know a person. Yeah. And of course
you just want the best, right? So, if you are searching, then I will search for the best. It's like normal, like, jobs.
So your partner, let, say you studying poly, you go pick him up, you. Ok,
I'm ok. Ok. If the chemistry, if I love him that much, I will just do it.
You go pick up your boyfriend.
Ok. My boyfriend used to pick me from school. I mean, you know, like, it's just perception, right? Like society's perception, like, if you were sidetracked a little, but if you were 30 year old guy dating a 40 year old woman, it's not so bad. But then suddenly if you are like a 30 year old woman dating a 20 year old guy, then people are like, oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just the stage of life stage of life. Exactly. Ok. Maybe,
probably a bit too extreme. Like, if you put it in uni, it's like, not so bad, you know, like, it's getting out soon. It's true. And I just judge the nu pageant I'm saying, what's up, what is up, show you some video later? So Sean in a hypothetical situation, hypothetical, ok, would you rather date up or date down if the dating leaks do exist?
So, to me, I, I absolutely believe the dating links exist and to answer your question, right. Most guys, you guys will you date up, right? But I think for me in actuality, right? I won't have the confidence to get out. I don't think
so.
II I don't think I will dare to even strike up a with a girl you
have. Do you feel OK, this might be a bit of a personal question and I hope it's not too sensitive. But do you think you said that you are not confident enough? Do you think that you mask that with like trying to be funny or like dropping one liners
100% all
the time? Is it really? OK? I wasn't sure that was like a sensitive question to ask. I mean,
everyone's insecure to a certain extent. Right. Right. And, and 11 thing that, that my, my company always makes me feel insecure about my height. So
no, but we always say that you are funny and and witty,
hence why I compensate,
we can give us a witty line and he will be like, OK, OK.
So for me, right? Like if I see someone who I perceive as as a bit. Right. I will have more confidence to, to approach
it a bit lower.
Um, oh, it is a bit lower. Ok, let's say, er, maybe someone socially is a bit more shy. My safest answer I can tell
you or maybe at a different stage of life, like maybe still figuring career out or, I don't know, in a place where you kind of figured it
out, but at my age, if I did someone who was still in school, it is a bit questionable. I
mean, hold on you. Are you OK. When I was in uni, I did a 30 year old.
You were like 2021? Ok. Ok. Ok. Ok.
Ok. Ok. Ok. OK. Don't come at me, comment section. I'm very scared of you guys. Sometimes I feel
like if I'm chasing someone who I perceive to be higher, I, I over think a lot of things like, ok, guys are sending her home already, then I don't drive, then guys are buying her things. We, I can afford it. I only have my, my personal to, to win you over there, but
personality is the most important. Yeah. Honestly I tell you, I would rather date a guy with good personality and character than a guy with a Lamborghini like 100% right? You know, sometimes they put them in front of the car, in front of the car, like such a huge turn off and I'm like a
personality is not, is it a first impression thing to you guys or looks first? And if you drive a car, you think? Ok, this guy?
No. Ok. The funny thing is actually I'll tell you what happened when I first went out with my current partner. Ok. So firstly I, OK, I wasn't immediately like, oh, ok, I'm gonna, I'm gonna date you or like, it wasn't immediate, we, we got to know each other like slowly. I was like, oh, I really like, I, I'm a, I'm a personality person so I really like if you make me laugh or like, we get along really well, we can banter and stuff, you know, banter on love. I
learn what's going on. Ok. No, but the is important, like fun. It is important. Yeah, you keep the conversation going, you can talk for hours, you can do all kinds of things together. Then, er, m, I didn't ask about his background or anything. Like, I didn't know much about him at all. We went out on a date and we went for dinner. So we sat down, we ate and then there's a valley service outside because it's like one of those parallel parking areas with no parking space.
So this like, quite ratchet car rolls by. That looks like it just got banged up in an accident and they patched up the door with like something else, you know, like that kind of. So, and then we are sitting right at the road near the roadside and he goes, oh, that's my car. And then I turned around and I was like, oh, I was like, it was so cute and I was like, that's a cute car and he goes, no, I'm kidding. That's not, I'm just, I'm just joking. Just testing you.
I was like, oh, ok. Was that a test? I was like, did I pass? I don't know. But it also shows that he is funny. Exactly. I did get a good laugh out of it because how he was dressed did not match that car at all. And I thought it would be hilarious if that was. Yeah. And to me that doesn't matter because my whole life, um, even, like growing up with my family and I, we've been driving like, second-hand cars, like, not branded cars. I don't think that's important. I don't think it's important.
So, what made you agree to give him a chance or go on a first date in the first
place? Um, we, we had so much laughter. We, we had so much fun because anyway, this is a long story about how we met but we, we just really got on very well. So I was like, ok, let's, let's, let's try.
But if he had complete strangers just let us, hey, would you like to get dinner sometime? Probably not.
Yeah, I'm, I'm kind of more of the, I need to get to know you a little bit first. Yeah. I don't know, conversation is very important to me. So, for you, Nadia, you were saying earlier, um, or, or rather you haven't answered this, would you rather date up or down? Ok. So for me I would rather date up, of course. Ok. I think it's quite obvious from what I've been saying. Yeah. It's really that I want to be inspired and I want to really look up to someone I want to improve as a person.
Yeah. And I feel like I will only listen to a guy more if I really think highly of him. Yeah. So I cannot judging you right now. Hey, no, there is no right or wrong in this, right? There's no right or wrong. So, have you ever dated someone that you felt didn't quite inspire you? I think the inspiration part is quite hard but at least like for the people I've dated so far, I am comfortable with them. Yeah. Like I like talking
to them. Yeah. But that's why being inspired by someone maybe takes, it's a whole, it's a, it's a person that you can't really find, but I think in the slow day to day things then you can be inspired by them in the future. I mean, of course there are pros and cons of dating, like what is perceived as a
superior partner. Right. Right. And one of it you mentioned is admiration, er, m you know, being mentally, like stimulating as well for, I guess the intellectual part of things, but the cons, do you feel like there could be differing values in some way or you might knock kids a little bit? The partner that is not as, not at the same level might feel a bit of inequality. Do you guys feel like that might be the case? I think generally for guys, they would rather be the superior or the
more dominating partner in a relationship. Yeah. I don't want to say for all guys, but it's a bit about the ego.
So if I'm dating someone who lets say looks wise, right? It's way above me, right? I insecure every day everywhere I walk, right, guys confirm I look her up. Then I be like what you guys are into the DM and all
confident like, wow, look this girl, this is my girl she chose me
can break up on, you know, with someone else.
No. OK. So you, you tend to think that way.
Yeah, I'm quite, quite pessimistic and now that I think about it. Oh
man. OK. I wonder what kind of trauma let you hear though? Like, oh no, but
yellow
rather other than her looks.
So to me, to me, personality, I, I believe in myself enough of a personality. It's just that 1st 1st impression it's a bit harder for me perhaps because you see the way I dress at work. It's not the best that
can be changed. I mean, that's not difficult. Ok. But because our workplace setting is more like a relax, more relaxed. Yeah. So we don't we wear when I go to the office? Like, I mean, like exercise clothes almost like every day, like, and shorts. Yeah, similar to, like, superficial thing can be changed. Do you
put guys on the pedestals?
What do you mean? Yeah. In what sense,
er, let's say in terms of like,
who's a good catch,
is it? Yeah. Like he's so much better than me. I need to constantly do more, I need to be the one that put in more effort in the relationship or to chase,
I think, depends from guy to guy. Ok. If I really like a guy, of course, I will put in more effort. Ok. But the chasing aspect of it, I usually go about doing my own things day to day and then I will wait for someone to come to me instead. So I try not to think too much about it and, uh, maybe just to cite a few examples back then because, and I was sharing this with my friends too, you know, we don't choose what kind of family we are born into or what, um,
socioeconomic status you are born into. Right. So, naturally if you're born into like a higher ses, er, m, you might meet people of the same pedigree. I don't know if that's the right word to use, but for me. Like, I am not familiar with a lot of these, these people, ok, I'm just a normal person. Go to normal school and then as I kind of went into the industry or even just like, grew up and met more people through friends and all this guy asked me out and, uh, I, I don't
know who he is. Like, he was just like, oh, no. Met him at a club. You just asked me out? I was like, OK, so I decided to go and then my friend was like, oh, who's this person that you met at, at that asked you out? I said, oh, it's this guy and she's like, oh my God, this guy is the son of like some, I don't know, billionaire. I don't know what, like some family, some like big family, they own some big group and company and all that. And I was like, oh, I had no, I had
no idea. He seemed like just a regular guy. But after she put that in my mind and after I knew that he was from like a certain family, I started to like, feel a little nervous because usually I don't really care and I'm comfortable and confident in like who I am and my family background. And yeah, we grew up in H DB flat, like I'm fine with it. But I started to feel subconscious like when he would drive his like fancy sports car to drop me off, like,
at H DB flat. Like I'm wondering like, what is he thinking? Is he conscious that I stay? Not in a fancy house, like not in a GCB condo. So I was just like, you know what I think I can't deal and it just didn't really quite work out also. I was a bit young and I was just dating for fun. So, yeah. But yeah, I don't know, it's kind of got into my head and I was also younger and more immature at that time. I think that's why I rather not know. That's why it's good to not know all these things.
But so dating both league. Sorry to drop you. But it's absolutely, you believe it's a thing, I
believe it's a thing. Subconscious or not. I think it exists. I think also when you like, meet their family. Yeah, you subconsciously like, ok, I have to sit like this. Did they eat like this? Yeah, I had another, I see, I dated a lot of people, another, er, m whose whole family is like doctors and they didn't approve of me because I was studying media. Yeah. So that made me feel like a lower, a lower rung. You know what I mean? Even though I don't think
that it is necessary but I just felt like smaller suddenly. Yeah, I mean that the case.
So, so what do you think then? Like, like, let's say a couple is dating Right. And clearly one is way above the girl. I leave it up to you. How can the couple successfully make it work? Because so far everything is about all not working. Right. So,
I know of a couple and her mom didn't approve of their relationship because of their education level. So she's from, like, like, school ever. Yeah. She didn't want to listen to her mom. And I was like, oh, wow. Because, like, you are really, really, like, smart and like, maybe, like, intellectually he won't be
on your level. But when I saw how they interact and how loving he is and how he's always thinking of her and that love that you see in the couple, I think, like, no matter the education level or whatever, financial background or whatever, like, I think all those things can be, like, thrown out the window, like, it's really personality and that, that loving heart, the heart is the most important. I mean, it's very important to find someone that makes
you laugh and cares for you and loves you. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Do you agree? You were going to chime in? Sorry. I also asked
whether the guy is a bum or not. Yeah.
No, he's not, he's not a bum but he's not like a super, like, financially savvy. Yeah. Actually, likewise, I mean, just to draw a reference to my own current relationship as well. Er, he's very successful in finance funny enough and I'm so shit at, I just cannot creative people to count to paper and like, I don't know, your account is a thing. OK. Um He's also from like ac you know, different background, different background. Grew up in a very nice neighborhood,
total opposite, you know, of me. Not that my neighborhood was a nice, it was great, it was great. But I think it's also about upbringing because he wasn't the typical kind of guy that I think in my mind like, oh, ac a, you know, that kind of you have the stereotype, right? But he busted that stereotype.
He was like, totally different. And I really think that sometimes it comes down to also how the family taught their kids, I guess growing up, you know, um, how you should treat people, get to know people, not judge people based on just face back. True. True. Yeah. Wow.
So, actually, have you ever asked him when, when he, when you started dating? Right? Did he think of you as, as above his league or below?
Good question. I've never actually asked if he thought I was above his. He wouldn't ask me out, right? Or would he based based
on my logic as a guy? I won't, but I don't know whether for him.
Ok. You know what, let me ask him now. That is a very good question. Should I call him now and ask him? Oh, do it. Oh my God. Ok. Ok. Please be free. It should be lunch time. Is it? Ok. Let's try. Let's try, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,
wait, if you want to find out whether so is above or below, right. Subscribe to find out now. Yeah. Oh, no.
Come on, come on, come on, come on, come on. Ok. Wow, that's ringing. Let me message him. I'm not like, 000, hey, are you free? I'm having a lunch, lunch. Ok. I have one minute, just one minute of your time. So the question is when you first asked me out, do you think that I was above or below your league? Maybe, maybe highly above why? In what way? I mean, you are like a celebrity, right? And I'm just a normal guy. Ok. But, but, but background wise, you know, you are
more financially stable, you're more like experienced, right? So it was just because of that that you felt I was above your league. Uh Yeah, and you are, you know, pretty hot. Ok, by the way, there's like 20 people sitting in front of me and you're on speaker. Thanks for answering. Let me know. Thank you. Thank you. You always make our episode. Great. Thanks. Ok, go back to your lunch for my. Ok, so now thank you for asking that question. I never actually asked him.
So yeah, so there, there you go. Ok, so even if you think that someone is above your need, you can still ask them out because their perspective might be otherwise. Right. Yeah. Sometimes guys are, like, just go for it like a one time, you know, it doesn't, it's ok. At least I tried. Yeah. Exactly.
Rather regret. Regret. Not.
Exactly. Right. Yeah, we should end on that note. That's a great thing to print on a t-shirt or something.
You learned more today. Yeah, we
are. You too. You too. Hopefully everyone learn a little bit more. Ok. So to end off does being in the same league even matter at the end of the day after all this discussion, does it even matter?
Not after the phone call?
Thank you for giving us the confidence for giving men the confidence. So now Sean, you can go all out, go all out
inspiration. He inspires me like how not expect guys to inspire her, right? Ok. Yeah, I believe, I believe it doesn't matter as much a bit more. Now,
I think she's got to get, get your head out of it sometimes and not overthink it maybe. So all the best. Let me know. I will love, I'm very invested. I want to keep updated with your dating life or, you know, I
have one final question for you before we end things.
Oh, no. Is this,
do you think that is above or below my data?
Oh my God. Oh, do that actually, I think, I think that you are very compatible. Yeah, I think a lot of people, I think that you balance each other out. Yeah. And you obviously make her laugh. Oh, no, no, I know. Is it true? He does sometimes, but I would say he's very funny. He's funny to get more than every Singaporean.
I'm not driven enough for you. LA
Yeah. Driving her crazy. That's it. That's the only way. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of men. Explain. If you enjoyed it, please hit the follow button. We are on Spotify Apple podcast and me listen and for more
content like this, follow its clarity dot co on Instagram and tiktok.
Ya see ya a
you.