On fertility issues, unplanned pregnancies and male birth control

Hey Sonia, Welcome to another episode of Men, explain it is our final episode of the season and obviously we saved the best for last. The most controversial guest of all its vernon a controversial Yes. 100%. He needs no introduction. Obviously you would recognize him as one half of the buttons and it's very funny because you interviewed me for martin sandwich podcast. I'm interviewing you, that's why

it's so cool. You're returning the courtesy. Exactly ran out of guesses.

No, no, lo okay before everything. How are you?

I'm doing okay. I mean We're on the same time belt now now that you've jumped in the morning on 987, so that's pretty cool. So we get to see each other every day exactly before that we hadn't seen each other in like two years

Like we barely even caught up, you know, but I have to say waking up at 4:45 is fun fun times. I have to say,

You look at 4 45,

what time you wake up?

She's late for work every day.

No, I'm not. I get there at like 5 30. No, you do. It will be okay, it's day two. So

ask me again

in a week today, we're talking about fertility and having Children. This is a bit of a more serious topic that we're addressing here today, right? And I don't think we've actually managed to talk about this in, you know, on a platform like that. We were always just catching up as friends, you know, like chatting what's going on in our lives and all that this time around is a little bit more of a subject that a lot of people my age are

financially draining?

Yeah.

No, but once you set up to start a family, you know, it's never looked back and all I I wish I didn't have kids point, you know, because once you have kids, you you obviously love them and and you want to nurture and and watch them grow into young adults and adults hopefully and be your moneymaker when you're older so that you can relax and they can just send you money every day,

but

That's that's the grand plan. But yeah, I mean, you know, it's been all fun. My eldest is 19 this year, can you believe?

So grown up

19, he's taller than me, he tells me to do housework now. two young ones, one is 3 and one is a year and three

months. Well, I mean obviously at the time, I think you mentioned earlier on that you didn't quite plan for the most recent. Yeah,

it was just it just happened obviously and I don't think I need to explain how these kind of things happen, but yeah, so but I mean we we we took it with with a lot of joy because you know, we've always wanted a not a large family, but you know, a family of Children running around the house and stuff like that. We have

to make dogs and

the dogs. Yeah, I got two dogs as well, so and we had to make some personal alterations because you know, we had to get a bigger place so that you know, everybody had a bit of their own space and stuff like that. So yeah, but you know, those were easy and and fun things to do that. I

Mean it was interesting because when we first went or rather when I first joined 97 and when we started, you know, hanging out with that, it was a smaller home that you had your home, you know, it was a little bit more of like you guys were living like a couple of life, you know, and then the family started getting bigger.

Exactly, yeah, it also grew and we needed more space,

but it feels rewarding. I'm sure for them, especially for jane, right? She loves kids as well.

Yeah, for sure. I mean she's she's a great mom, she's a stay well she's a stay home mom, but she does, you know, do some work on the side and stuff like that. That's

content creation. Yes, quite a

bit. But you know, she I don't think she'll trade it for anything else because like, you know, she she literally plans the kids, they like, like what they do from the time they wake up till they go to bed. So I think I'm very fortunate that way because I have someone, you know, my partner who's, who's willing to do these things so that I can come out and work and do my thing

when it came to having kids. Did you guys have a big long drawn conversation before you got married or after you got married?

Yeah. And I know exactly what, you know why you're asking this question where it comes from? Because I know a lot of people who are like that, they literally, you know, plan out their their lives and they have

Goals right over by 27. I must get married by 30. I'm going to my first kid. Like, you know,

it's the reason I married my wife because we have no goals whatsoever. We, we, we barely plan for anything except holidays. Yeah. So, you know, it was never a conversation where you know, how many kids do we want? What schools do they go to? We still don't know. Yeah. So, so we're not kind of planners in that sense. We like to enjoy each other's company and what comes out of that, obviously we enjoy each other's company too much. Like so many Children. Right? But all

the information we needed.

Exactly. Right. I mean that's how kids come about and you just go with the flow and you enjoy it and you know, yeah, it's harder for us to have a couple of times now because of the two little ones running around, but that in itself, you know, taking care of the kids together. It's a couple

times. It is rewarding.

You don't really need time alone to spend time with each other.

Yes. Yes. And I can see that she's enjoying the process. You know, she's absolutely glowing as well just following her on social media. I mean she's so happy, but you know, obviously with a lot of us nowadays, sometimes we don't necessarily also want to have kids. I don't know like, you know what you have then proceeded to also get together and settle down if she didn't want to have kids or for

sure. I mean, you know, it doesn't matter for me, it doesn't matter. It's really all about personal choice. I think the thing with me and J and my wife is that like I said, we're not planners. So we never said, oh I want kids. And the other one said, I don't want kids. You know, we're always like, let's see if it happens, it happens if it doesn't and it

wasn't a deal breaker.

No, it wasn't a deal breaker. In fact, it came to a point where she said, you know, she really wanted to start a family and I was all for it because, you know, I love Children as well, you know, not necessarily my own. I love my my nieces and nephews and stuff so so I thought okay yeah it'll be fun and it was a bit of a long term process as well because initially we found it a bit hard

you have a lot of practice practice

every day but still no kids. So so we decided to see a fertility clinic and they helped us out and stuff like that. So so we went through a minor procedure and voila you know number two came along and then without even trying the next time just practicing on it. But Number three came along. So we're like hey

perfected the craft already

exactly what I didn't have to call the doctor for help. I

mean that's very nicely into what I was going to ask you next because you and jane were both quite open about the whole process about consulting a doctor and stuff. So I mean I think you know with medical advances nowadays it's not like a taboo thing anymore people just you know openly want to share as well because other couples are also concerned about fertility issues and they're looking into such options.

We were fortunate in the sense that when we decided to go get help with fertility and all that. And a good friend of us recommended this amazing doctor. It was funny because we we had an appointment with him. We went in, we answered some basic information uh and he asked over and I believe you have an elder son as well. And yeah and he was like okay I guarantee you you guys would be pregnant in a few months

seriously.

And just like that with with those words me and jane left the office smiling and really getting

pregnant already. Exactly,

right. Yeah. Like

just so

much and I just said but but seriously? I mean you know the those those words really left us with the weight of our shoulders. We thought like oh my goodness, you know three years something must be wrong with either one of us. We we just didn't know and once he said that we left happy in the next couple of treatments were breeze and there we go, boom. You know my my my son came

about when you see treatments, what exactly was to be done during those treatments.

Well it was more of an extraction put together and put back kind of treatment. I

it's a lot simpler than it.

Yeah, I like to man Splain things sometimes because

this is why you on the show.

That's true because the technical and an actual procedure of it. If I started to explain a lot of people I think the cameraman was and and cringe about, I

vaguely remember you,

I must have told you this before. The needle is this long, it goes into your testicles.

Yeah.

Well, sure. Okay, the the scientific,

scientific, sorry, sorry, sorry, I'm a DJ like, simplify things on, so

it extracts semen, right, And they do a on site test while it's being extracted, The doctor just sitting there chatting with me about life in general,

you know, the

radio show? Yeah, he wasn't very distracting though, because like,

if there's one thing I'm

just being very much

vernon's tolerance for pain is rather high, I mean,

it's

exactly like that must have been, you know, and he says his pain, it's pain, it's

a very interesting feeling uncomfortable, something you've never felt before, because it's down there.

Yeah,

and you will never, you know, go and get down there unless you're so when that happened, you know, and and and and they literally did an on site test and they're like, yeah, you're good to go, everything is healthy and fine. So, you know, that's step one of the relief. And then when when jane wielding what they did was they extracted some eggs from from her, I don't even know what the scientific term is, but I want to say stomach over really uterus, like. Yeah, yeah.

good to. Excellent.

Good. They have different grades by the way a one it will be. Yeah then they just ask you okay so you want to pick one If not we'll just choose the best one and we'll put it back into jane and hope for the best. I've heard a lot of stories where you know sometimes it doesn't work out for some couples and it's very hard heart wrenching because you know you're in that mode where it's

emotional and physical,

correct? Yeah. You really want the child. You have to go through a few procedures like like injection self injections which are very painful by the way does very very painful.

You have to do it did you have to do it? I

did it for Jamie and yeah so you know it's never a nice procedure to go through especially for things not to work but for us it worked immediately and and we had a baby. Exactly and the doctor's words was so true I'll get you pregnant and

wow.

So it was incredible. Very nice process.

We need to interview this doctor next sure.

He's really good by the way and it's very hard to get because he's so popular.

Right. Right And then the next kid just came naturally almost

and it yeah of our last child came naturally.

Yeah. Fantastic. Well I mean I think another fantastic piece of news is increasing because it's freezing has been a topic of conversation for so long. That's right. And, you know, there have been many people trying to advocate for it and all and you know, I'm not sure what your thoughts are as well, because when it comes to say, you know, my peers around my age, you know, even in their twenties to early thirties,

and you should have that choice. You should have the option. Yeah. You know, it's not that the the medicine and the technology is not available, it has been for a long time. I'm just really glad that finally Singapore opening up this kind of treatment for, you know, young ladies who want to plan for the future, but are not ready to take that next step.

But do you think it's considered or was considered quite taboo in the past to talk about this? Because, you know, it's freezing. I mean, some people are like, we can't even explore this option. Like it's selfish, It's not ethically right? Whatever what you thought.

I've seen some of those comments. And I just think to myself, why is it your problem that I want to be selfish, It's my life. I get to choose my path and what I need to do now, I mean, let's let's be honest, Singapore is not an easy place to raise Children. Everything. Yeah. And obviously, so you want to be financially stable before you start a family and you know, you know, go on to other things as well. I believe another reason why egg freezing was not allowed in. Singapore is also religious.

Yes.

So, you know, I'm glad that everybody's, you know, it's 2022. I'm glad that everybody has come to a consensus that, you know, we should allow this, put aside their religious beliefs and traditional beliefs. And let's let's move towards a nation where we can make this decision for ourselves because otherwise we're never going to progress, we just have to keep moving forward. There are worse things that are

Exactly. I only found out about this recently because a friend of mine got pregnant 35 and it was considered a geriatric pregnancy. I didn't even know that there was a term for it. And they call it a geriatric pregnancy means they're very old to conceive

apparently because, you know, some women and and their bodies find it difficult to go through the process of pregnancy.

Yeah, exactly. And the thing is, you know, for certain, some of my friends who are like in their late thirties at this point, they are worried that, you know, they haven't even found the one they want to settle down with or they haven't Found that stable partner yet and they want to have the option in the future to still have a kid. I think that's honestly a wonderful thing because with medical advances nowadays, having a kid at in your late 30s isn't exactly that bad anymore. Right.

So, so for you, a person who's who's, you know, out and about on the go all the time, very, very successful in your in your career and all that, would you consider something like that? Like, like egg freezing?

I would actually, because, you know, I don't even know the status of like my fertility to be very honest. Like, and it's just a thing who

does like

casually walk and find out, you know, I have not done that. Um Jeremy obviously has no problems because he also has three kids from a previous marriage has already. So um I would definitely, if I want to settle down in the future would have to go check it out. Right? And I mean, this is, you know, we've gotten to know you tuning in right now to this podcast for a long time. So I'm not afraid to also share

that.

I would be worried if you took any sort of contraceptives for your skin. You know, I feel like it is sometimes a little bit of a taboo thing where people don't want to talk about it, you know. But a lot of my peers are on contraceptives and it just makes them feel more safe in a relationship or you know, and you don't want unplanned pregnancies as well for

the longest time. I've always felt, you know, women have this option of contraceptives via pills. You d and things like that. Right? Guys only have condoms. That's a bit

unfair options.

Yeah, we literally have no other

options. Right?

Exactly. That's it. Unless you go get a vasectomy, which is a major step in in your your your reproducing journey. So so you know, it's a bit unfair. I feel that's one way of doing it. But you know, a lot of guys will feel no I don't like using that prevent me from having Children. First of all, the whole experience of the baby making is less pleasurable. So you know, maybe we should we should come up with a male contraceptive pills. I mean allow male contraceptive pills.

So on that note I'm guessing, you know overseas, especially like this whole concept of a male contraceptive pill is still being um looked at at this point in time

did research research.

And that's the thing because you play around with hormones, you play around with your body. You know, like it's, it's not going to be approved so fast. Right? I

play around my body all the time.

I do not want to know what you do. Like I said, we can say anything during this podcast, but I'm not sure we want to know about that.

Taking my liberties. Oh

my gosh, that's that kind of podcast now. That's where we're going. Okay. So would you ever consider doing a vasectomy

Now when I'm 50 years old? Yeah. I wouldn't mind if if it became a problem. It's not a problem yet. But would I have to call my wife and check after this. But yeah. But yeah, I mean I wouldn't not go through the process if if I had to, I think a lot of people guys, especially when it comes to down there and procedures and you get a bit nervous and sensitive and all that. So, so, but yeah, I think I'd be okay with it if you ask

of course, like the least invasive options.

Exactly. Yeah, something that works. And then again, makes your skin better.

I really hope this should be

a beauty podcast.

This is, this is really podcast at the same time. I mean, you know, but I guess when it comes to like even talking about a vasectomy. Like people also have this visual where like oh you have to snip something like I don't know something I don't know what actually goes down.

Well neither do I. Which is why I have to sit here and do podcast with you and not you know sit in my G. P. Practice and tons of money but I'm just kidding. But I mean all the guys watching this podcast right now will definitely agree. I mean the minute you start talking about anything in the nether regions where its medical procedure or anything that involves scissors, tubes, needles, yeah the visualization and and the phantom feeling that you get just

anything related.

You lose it, you lose your ship seriously. You can go crazy and

sidetracked. I don't know why I'm so like involved in such conversations of the nether regions recently. But there's a new health show just sidetracked for a bit where in my case and I talked about erectile dysfunction. So I just want to talk about it, mike was also like going a little pale like where are you

dutch? Huh? I thought you were from the Netherlands and

just I didn't know maybe it's part of my you

know that joke

cold jokes, Old jokes. Oh my gosh, just moving on separating into a little something maybe from your younger days as well. Have you ever gotten a pregnancy scare with like a girl,

girlfriend, girlfriend? Several.

Several? Yeah.

It usually happens in the time when you're saying you're telling them. I don't think this is working out. Oh

my God.

Yeah. I'm beginning to suspect the pattern. But yeah, thank goodness. I mean, nothing ever really happened. So I'm safe in that. But yeah, the conversations have come up. I'm late. Like, what? You're late for? You got nothing to do

what? No,

no, no, no. I'm late for my monthly and you're like, really seriously? That's just because I told you that, you know, are

you sure? But what if it happened

three times

with the same person? No, of course not. But

yeah, So with different people, well, slightly different conversations. But yeah, the general pattern was that So, I think it's a weapon that, oh dear. People use against guys. Some some women use against that.

That is an interesting concept. Obviously not targeted all women. You're too

nice. You wouldn't know about this. You

know, I've actually gotten a scare before. I mean, I don't know what I'm saying this when my parents are probably watching,

but

what's up? They watch all my videos. So forget it. It's all out there already. Yeah. I've actually had a scare before, despite being on contraceptive pills. Um I was about a week late for my period and it just and I was like, Oh no, you know when they say 99% sure that you will not

only imagine how you're feeling. I

Was like that one person, I'm the 1% at that point, I was like under 1%. That's it. Like, I don't know what's going on, but turns out, you know, I went to the doctors, everything and um ladies, if you're tuning in right now, this could be a possibility if you've been on the pill for a long time and you haven't taken breaks or whatever. I don't know like whether but it is like feeling uncomfortable with me sharing. I

love this information.

Yeah. So what happens is, you know, your cycles could become much shorter and very light as well. Not not irregular, it's supposed to be regular but it becomes shorter and lighter, which is good. You know, like you don't like heavy periods and stuff. But um at a point in time the doctor actually checked and said actually you're having a period right now, but there's nothing because it's become your your body has become

Exactly why I'm so glad you said that. That's absolutely I can be like the bad lady, like, you know, like check it out. Here's my badge. I've been taking this. Don't let me, honey. Exactly. That I won't wear masks and you

can be

a baller. Yeah. So, you know, in that sense that that kind of gives you the because with the regular mail contraception, there's a lot now, which is condoms, there's no other, right?

Yeah.

There's still a chance. Exactly. You know, it could be it could be tampered with, okay, you know, it could be defective, so it would

Have been the 0.1% chance.

Yes, exactly. So there's always that one chance that that it didn't work out. So with the contraceptive pill, you know,

what do you think then? Um, the option of the male contraceptive pill? What kind of impact will have on the society though, if you have anything,

wow, that is a loaded question, because you're absolutely right. Some people, because, you know, either they're thinking of careers, maybe they just don't want to settle down and so they use that as a way that means to, you know, not start a family and that could lead to, you know, certain problems, societal problems obviously, right. And relationship problems as well, because you know, imagine if a couple weren't honest with each other and the

not seeing the

correct, you know, the woman says she really wants to start a family and the man pretends to want to, but is on the pill, you know, that there will be a horrible situation in a very bad relationship, you know what with with with anything. I mean, even with the female contraception bill and stuff like that, it works both ways, I suppose so the to solely generalize that men don't want to have families as opposed to women want to have families, I think it's a bit unfair as well.

No, it totally is because I feel more and more, it is a fair decision rights, equal decision. Like, both people have to want to be on the same page, I wanna have kids in order to start a family, right?

And maybe to, you know, avoid all this and make it safe for everyone. Maybe for men, if you want to use the male contraceptive pill, you have to apply for it,

right? Like you have to yeah, actually it's the same thing for female contraceptives because you have to go to like a certified doctor to get it, like you can't just get it off the shelf versus if I'm not wrong in some countries overseas, you can actually access it off the shelf, like, you know, a guardian or like a pharmacist or something, but here in Singapore is a bit more strict,

so you have to see a doctor

have to see a doctor

make it like that for for men as well, at least there's some sort of control. Yeah, speaking, get it control,

control, control, vernon is like the best person to talk to you about control.

Yeah, I have none of

it. Exactly, thank you so much for chilling out in so many questions, it was so interesting to chat with you about such topics that we never get to chat about,

like, like taking my nether regions and stuff, I

never expected us to bring that up on a public platform.

Well we've done it now, everybody

has a visual of that going on and we cannot turn back

next. I have to show pictures.

Yeah. So are you going to give those pictures of my

wife would get angry and I don't have Children anymore.

Thank you so much for listening to the final episode of Men explained this season. If you enjoyed it, please hit the follow button. You can also binge listen to all our other episodes on Spotify and Apple podcasts. Also pleased to follow us at its clarity dot co on instagram and Tiktok for future updates.

Thanks for having me. Bye

bye.