Hey, what's going on, it's Sonia. Welcome back to another episode of Men. Explain. Today we're going to be addressing the word alpha. I just really want to get to know a little bit more about what our guest today thinks about that and whether he himself thinks he's an alpha male. Please welcome, Joe.
Hi, everyone.
Maybe you can tell us a bit more about what you do, Joe. Sure.
It's kind of going to be quite a mouthful because I recently left my job, so I would say that I am kind of like a full time content creator. Now I online, I have this moniker call like the info. Yes. So that pun
y influencer,
because I talk a lot about, like, you know, educational stuff and for giving up information and breaking that down into like bite size, you know, consumable formats. And that was given by a follow, actually. Not really. I didn't come over on my one. I just adopted it. Yeah. And then on the side, I also ran up with my friends, few Italian debt friends of mine where we do a lot of like meaningful, you know, content as well.
And then on the site, I also run now, which is a youth conference that I think that, you know, motivates young people to pursue their passions. Yeah.
How do you have any time at all to do anymore?
That's why I feel like, you know, I channel all of my free time into like my passions, which is all these things are.
So yeah. So today we're going to address the topic of alpha males and females. I mean, what alpha? Sometimes it can have, you know, positive or negative connotations? And just a disclaimer, right? This was where she used to describe animals in the animal kingdom to determine the rankings in the past. And obviously, we're just going to take you with a pinch of salt. You know, it may come as some sort of negative connotation when used on people, but let's just all take it with a grain of
salt and have an open and honest conversation. So I guess we'll start with the main question is, do you think you're an alpha?
So, so stirred up. OK. So when I when I think of the phrase I'm male, right? So I think of that the phrase alpha male, you know, someone like Harvey Specter from the show suits come to mind very like macho, you know, very powerful. I don't think I'm anything like that. But, you know, based on what people have told me and knowing myself as well, I do think that I'm quite type a so alpha. Yes, but like, do I fit the image? No. So that would be my answer.
OK. The example that you brought up is how it's portrayed in the media, right? Yeah. You know, it goes in correct stuff. But when it comes to being alpha type, I think there are many characteristics that you know attributed that to. And it doesn't necessarily mean that, oh, you have to dress is something we own. What was then we will come across, certainly. So what do your friends and your colleagues say about you that conclude that you are more type? Right?
So one thing that I got since my internship days was that I'm very go-getter, so I know exactly what I want and I won't stop until I get it. Yes. Yes. Another type is that like if, let's say, a team is working on something like, naturally, I just like my way into a leadership position, making sure that like,
like, no, we do
not know if a bossy. Yeah. But like, you know, if, let's say, for example, I mean, a team or group project and then I don't see it progressing a certain way or not fast enough. I'm definitely stepping up and making sure that, like all of us do our part to making sure that we meet like the goals in the end. So I think that's what the what people see and also what I definitely notice as well.
So in this entire, I guess, experience in your career and stuff, you know, picking up from what you said. Has anyone ever said like you, you done Barcelona's, you always been controlling or like any, any sort of slightly, you know, negative connotation to that. You can be honest because I'll share my own experience.
I mean, I've had people come up to me and say, like, Hey, maybe don't be so like, you know, aggressive sometimes. But I mean, for the most projects that I've been working on, I'm mostly working with people around my same age or slightly younger and whatnot. So I would say that that's definitely I need to balance being a friend and also like the little leader, right? So I do try to come across not to be rude.
You know, sometimes it's hard to draw the line because we just want to get the job done. Yeah, in a way. Right. And I myself as well, I think, you know, you can us joakim as well. He was one of our guests in the previous episodes. So when we first started out together as video partners like quite a number of years ago, really, he 100 percent said that I'm always like trying to dominate everything, but I must always win, especially in an argument, like in a discussion,
and I end up making all the decisions. So he definitely from his lens. Yeah, he would think that I'm a alpha female, right? But for him, you know, we kind of balance each other. That's why I guess the partnership, you know, works in a way because there's that balance where he's willing to sometimes, you know, back down and along the years and along the way, I also realize like, maybe I shouldn't be so aggressive, like, yeah, it can always come across my real time and I can always
get things my way. Yeah. So it's all about finding that balance, right?
And that comes through conversations like, you know, you said that you came to what you were, right? So that's like open communication.
You know, be comfortable to speak to people.
Yeah, like I mean, I've definitely had conversations with friends and whatnot whereby, you know, they tell me that this is my working style and this is and I know what my working style is. And I like to go into projects, you know, laying up there like, Hey, this is how I give it back. This is how I function. Like, No, please don't, don't take it personally. The work is the
work for me and whatnot. And then that kind of like sets the expectation, sometimes whereby different people come into different projects with different expectations, of course, you know, and sometimes they take things a little bit more personally, and that's where things can go off real a little bit. So I do think communication is such a big part of that as well.
I totally agree. But the one thing that sometimes you know, the thought they crosses my mind is when an alpha male, for example, when a guy comes across alpha, OK, I would say, Oh, he's so empowering swing control. But when you know, like, for example, a girl comes into a, you know, work situation and comes across alpha, people might be like, Oh, she's such a bitch, so bossy. Like, do you feel sometimes that?
So I've definitely heard of that. People just dismiss a woman who is a bit more alpha. It's like bitch, right? But in my personal perspective, so I mean, I work in media, right? And I and I work with a lot of like women around me and especially women in positions of power
is quite a female dominated. It is some in some sections of the media industry is quite female dominated.
So so I have been in like, you know, different types of companies within the media industry as well. So I have been in an editorial publication. I've been in like influencer marketing and whatnot. So in those times where I have been working under a female lead, yeah, what I realize is that it's not actually bitchy, you know, like it's just I see it as, you know, someone who is confident, assertive, but at the same time, there's something about female leaders where I feel like there's there's
more empathy. Oh, OK. Yeah. The way, the way they lead that the team or the people feels a bit more human, there's a bit more like a caring factor to it. And even under female professors in school where I went to like at school and communication school, what I realized was that like the the female professors, even as they lead the class and also like guides, students along like this always just kind of like empathetic approach to it, which I really, really enjoy. And I think
that that's why I thrive under so. So that's the way I see it, you know, so so sometimes I don't really like agree with the fact that like any woman who is assertive, is a bitch, right? But perhaps some people are bitchy by like, you know, like, that's less, I would say, single cases. But in my experience, as in school at work, what I realize is that, yeah, I like female leaders, have a lot more care to the way they they handle work. So I like it. That's something I appreciate, actually.
Yeah, that's an interesting way of seeing it because, you know, more often than not, like it can be a problematic term, right? Yeah, she's such an noble female. What she saw, you know, in control, which is saw like control freak, whatever, whatever, which could then cause all these negative feelings. But I never saw it your way. I mean, you think like with male like alpha males who are in leadership positions, they are less emotionally involved in something more surgical in a way.
In some ways, I would think so because I mean, I came from an all male environment for 10 years, right? So I'll send boys school for 10 years. And then I went to junior school, so I'll send one fat junior and then Mary Stella High. And then I went to Meridian, which was the first time I was like, Oh, that's cool. So it's like my whole class was like, that 10 goals, two guys, you know? And then sort of quite like a big shift. Yeah. And then after that,
he went into army, which is all male again. And then I went into art school, which is female dominated at once again. So I kind of like, see that stark contrast. And in various milestones in my life and you know, when I when I look at the times in army, for example, the kinds of leaders that I had in there versus like like, you know, at work and also in school. It's like, hmm, I definitely see
the different types of leadership qualities come into play. I mean, I personally don't like subscribing to stereotypes all that, you know, gender stereotypes. But I see it when we're going to look at like the male leaders and the way they lead certain things. And also, like the female leaders, I definitely see like that difference.
I mean, OK, so I came from an all girls school. I thought that actually, like 10 years ago, school and then, you know, you go into I went into poly. So likewise that you get introduced to like a whole bunch of different people and and stuff like that. This is a self confession right here. OK? When it was a group setting kind of like group project kind of thing, I was so irritated with the two guys in my
group because they were like lazy as bitches. And I was the one like, You do this, you do that. And I'm pretty sure people were saying that I was a bit shell like, so I don't know and like group, you know, back then when you started doing all these like, you know, group setting projects and stuff like that and you exposed. Two more people did that also then change you or shape you as a person when you enter the industry instead of working?
I mean, like, I wouldn't think of it as a gender kind of issue. I would think it's more just like working with different types of personalities. Yeah, 100 percent. But I mean, for you, it's great projects. For me, it's like social dynamics. So I would say that the first couple of months and JC, where I essentially went from like a boy school to kind of like a girl school with like 10 goals around me and just
me and my other like male friend in class. It's like, you know, the way you, you behave in class, the way you're talking class. It's like sometimes the things you say have to be has to be a lot more like sensitive, you know, and things like that. I would say the environment is very different, you know, when it's like dominated by the guys. And also like teenage boys who talk so much shit like so, so and then you have like I would say, like my my female
classmate in Jessie. Well, a lot more like emotionally mature. Yeah, yeah. Like at least compared to my secondary school grades. No sure thing on them. Please like me. Yeah. But for me, it's just like, you know, making sure that like you, you adapt accordingly and making sure that you don't, you know, rap people the wrong way and whatnot with certain things you see.
So as a result, I think, you know, the broader question is, do you find this elford treat attractive or a turnoff? And this can be on a personal level to not just work. Right, right. So I mean, dating life too.
Well, I mean, from from all I've been saying right now, I would think that like I do think that it is an attractive treat. Knowing what I am like as a person where I like it, when I'm in control and I like it, when I know what I want and when my goals are clear and how to get there are clear. So, you know, I tend to also
surround myself with people like that. Which also it's kind of like, you know, when you look at someone and they are kind of embodying what you desire and what you want for yourself, it's like that is attractive.
I mean, there is this, there's this term. I know every episode I drop some like random item that I heard from somewhere. You are the equivalent or the average of the five people around you that generally you attract this energy and you want to surround yourself with that hundred percent. And that might actually rub off in your own personal life, too. Yeah. So for me, I feel like, OK, generally I am someone who wants to be in control of a lot of things of the narrative of whatever right?
And I would also like to date someone who is a little bit alpha in that sense, right? I realize, like, you know, after a lengthy dating life, some experiences, you know, where I've dated people who are like, Oh, you know anything? No, I don't know, like, Oh, you know, we'll just go is we will live as we go next year. I don't know. Maybe I'll just find something else to do. I realize, like, I can't really do that. Yeah, what about you?
I have seen not just myself, but I've seen so many relationships fail because one individual is ready to conquer and and, you know, like, achieve all all that they want and the other the other person is just like, Yeah, I'm going to. Yeah, and no, not that's wrong, right? Like some people, there's
nothing wrong with
that. Yeah, 100 percent is just it does work in relationships. Personally, I don't think so. I've seen so many relationships fail simply because of that.
Yeah. So so that then takes us to say, I don't know in your current life situation and all that right? Do you find like, let's say, an alpha woman intimidating?
OK, you've heard what I feel about alpha women? Yes. Have I faced situations whereby someone who is obviously an alpha woman walks into the room and I feel like, Oh, no, you know, like, what do I? What can I do? Like, how do I not look stupid in front of her? You know, 100 percent, yes. Yeah. But I don't think it's also offer me as a man being intimidated by a woman. I just think that it's me being intimidated by someone who is intimidating.
Wow, OK. So, you know, it's like, Oh yeah,
it's just like, if it's if it's a guy, it is the same thing is the same thing. So so to me, that's where I see it. It's not like as if any alpha woman who comes in, I'm just like hot guys all the way. You know, sometimes I'll be like, you know, shit, like, I better get myself, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Like, present myself in a certain way and I just pray to God I don't feel stupid in front of these people. So, so it's definitely
like our people who present themselves a certain way. And I don't want to like, you know, like, come across as like, stupid or whatever around them.
Does it make a difference if you get into a disagreement with an alpha male and alpha female?
Actually, no. That like is the same to me. Like, I've always had this personal philosophy that like, you know, if you have a seat at the table, you have to earn that seat. So regardless of whoever's at the table, if any of you are the most powerful people and whatnot, I'm always going to sit down. I'm always going to give my opinion. Otherwise, there's no point in me being there. So that's kind of like where I where I function personally and whether or not whatever gender is at the table,
it doesn't really matter to me. For me, it's just like making sure that like if, let's say everyone is there to do a certain thing or to give a certain opinion, I better make sure that I give mine.
And have you ever made an opinion or made your opinion known at a. Table, and it was an unpopular opinion.
Yeah, 100 percent.
It wasn't all for you and, you know, tell us what it was and what went down. I want to know, right?
So. So it's kind of like just, you know, pointing out certain things that needed to be improved. Yeah. And sometimes that means that certain people have to pull up their socks a little bit more. Yeah. And you know, at the end of the day, as I say, it like, is never personal when it comes to what at the end of the day, like, I'm not here to to affect your bonus at the end of the year. Like, I'm here to make sure that our team wins. Right.
So like if let's say you're going to be personally offended by that and I'm sorry, you know, like that's just how I am. I mean, sometimes people would rather just like slap things under the carpet.
Oh my gosh, as we did a whole episode on that. People like to cite things that happen. Yeah, really.
That's not really my style when it comes to like my dad and my mom, you know, they sometimes they just like, you know, these are things going to say that kind of thing. And I think that that's their generation, right? Whereas ours is just kind of like, let's let's get it all out there and say, Look at it. Yeah, exactly. So I would think that is also because we've had the time to grow. We've had media and whatnot to to to show us examples, right? So, yeah, like,
yeah, actually, I think you brought up an interesting point when you mention like the generation thing in our parents, because this could also stem from a generational thing like, you know, the whole alpha male versus female and how sometimes alpha males are seen as, oh yeah, OK in control and all that. But females might come across a bit more negative, you know, because I guess historically back in the day, females are known to just be like, OK, I'll stay at home, take care of the kids. Yeah,
I won't work. You know, I'm a housewife. Then everything my husband wants to do, I'll say, OK, he's like this old. But you know, so yeah, do you think could possibly have stemmed from that? And then, you know, as we go along in the workplace and even now, that still has some echoes a hundred percent.
So I was doing some readings before before this episode, and I I remember reading this piece that was by, I think, one of the psychologists out there. So they did a study, and what they found out was that females who had dominant attributes like alpha female attributes, right? Actually, most of them come from families whereby they were they were shown that it's normal, that, you know, women can show these attributes of the US
to be successful.
Correct. And and also the fact that like they were given, for example, like a role model, that they get that they can look up to look up to. Exactly. So, you know, it's definitely like a parent thing like this. It's definitely something that you cultivate. So I would think that our generation is a bit more like progressive in that sense, because I would say that some of our parents, perhaps, you know, set it to go through. I would say the next wave feminism. And then they saw what glass
ceilings are like and whatnot. And then those values get passed down to us, right? And then I would think that like future generations, we'll see a lot more of such growth and progress.
I mean, it also takes us into another sort of topic or sidetracked a little bit. We're in a relationship. If you are dating, for example, and alpha female or like a girl that is independent and successful and financially independent, she doesn't mind also like contributing financially to to the household and also in the, you know, the bill for this dinner. This time I'll get it kind of thing. Yeah.
And for some guys, I don't know whether to them, it feels a little bit like, oh, like, yeah, I don't know if I can handle that kind of thing because from my own experience and you can share your own experiences, I'm sure you have some experience there, too. For me, I mean, I can name one or two guys that I did it before that were intimidated by my profession and the things that I do right at
at a much younger age. Back then, when I just started out working, you know, suddenly you're like, Wow, I'm working earlier and faster and a lot of my peers so I can afford to like, open a bottle but affects you, something that I've been reading my age, you might say. But I think because it closed down any of it. Yeah. And so some of the guys, they're like, Oh man, I don't think I can handle this because like, you know, Barbara, I should be the one doing this.
So why are you always trying to take control of of the situation in those aspects? It didn't quite work out, right? Relationships, you know? Yeah. So I think finding a partner and I definitely consider myself pretty independent person, and I don't like to be also like told what to do and stuff like that. My parents would know this. They have had a very difficult time with me when I was
like a teenager. Yeah. And I think that really causes this whole situation where you look for a partner who is able to handle that and is also confident in himself and is comfortable. So for you to see a personal relationship says, have you ever been in a situation where you are intimidated by your partner or the other way around?
Actually, no way. I like. I mean, I would like that if, let's say, the relationship I am, I'm in is one that is like a power couple kind of situation, you know, like if, let's say, if my partner is opening bottles and whatnot, I'm like, Yeah.
You know,
you want, you know, how everyone has like this. Yeah, like like a squat. Yes. Yes, you look like them and all of them are like, you know, powerful. And, you know, like, got their lives together. And like, I look at couples like that as well, and I'm like, Oh, yeah, like that. That is like something that I would like to emulate as well. So as I say it, like, I look for someone who is like, kind of like in line a line with what I what I want.
So I guess, you know, bringing us back to the whole topic and concept of, you know, alpha male, alpha female in your entire life. Have you been exposed to more people who are alpha who are more in control or who are more giving in that sense,
even even on TV? Let's see. You know, I watch a lot of TV and I've always seen like characters and whatnot that, you know, embody those traits. I think when I look at my parents, both of them are quite, you know, alpha types. I would think that my mom is a bit more of an alpha female than come back to my dad, but I would think that both of them are able to be like in control and whatnot. So I definitely grew up in an environment where they
definitely cultivate their independence in me. So, yeah, like I would think that having seen all these kind of like examples definitely shaped my perceptions of like, you know, people who alpha.
Yeah, yeah. And I think when it comes to two women as well, like I think there should be more acceptance in some way instead of a negative connotation as right, because sometimes it's like you just need to have each other's back and motivate each other instead of like tearing each other down. I don't know whether it's just a female thing where, OK, if there are too many powerful women in one setting, suddenly it becomes a little bit
of a competitive, bitchy environment, right? Is it the same for guys?
I mean, there is this like like top dog syndrome, right? Right. Where sometimes it's just like you kind of have two alpha males in an environment. That's what I usually say. Yeah, that's what I hear. I do think perhaps there might be some truth to that. Well, you know, there's this whole like, they can be too many cooks in the kitchen anyway. Yeah. Like between among guys, I would think. To me, it's not so much of like multiple alpha people together as most of understanding, like when you need
to step back and when you need to step up. Yeah. I mean, I surround myself with people who are in control. So it's not always that like, Oh, I walk around people who just say yes to all that I do. I don't think that that kind of environment is stimulating at all. I think it's a bit like, you know,
toxic a
little bit. Yeah, yeah. So so I like it when, when, when ideas flow and people go back and forth, you know, like, I like it, that everyone around me like knows what they want. But that also means that sometimes ideas and clash, and it's knowing kind of like how to step back and let sometimes the other people be, you know, so, so so that's where I feel like that kind of situations can be navigated through.
I think it took me some time as well to understand that whole concept of, you know, not always having things my way and having to give in a little bit. So I don't know because I'm like the only kid I grew up with. No, I literally get everything my way, OK, like, you know, daddy's going on. It's like, you know, that's always give in to their daughters, especially if it's the only kid, 100 percent, you know, and even, I guess,
you entering the working world and stuff like that. It took me some time and I believe growth as well, you know, and maturity to get there for you. Do you think it took you also a little bit of time to understand, like, hey, you know, I need to step back also and give other people a chance to lead?
You know, you know, that question actually let my mind to this whole thought process because, you know, when I was a kid or I, I I've always felt like, how come all these people with experience are so much more respect that are given so many more opportunities than me because I feel like I can do it, you know, at at 18, 19 years? Or I feel like, you know what, if you give me the opportunity? Yeah, I can do something. Yeah. And then of course, I'm a
little bit older now. You know, I felt like a decade. We'll have experience, right? So now I'm in a position whereby, you know, like opportunities are coming onto my lap. Yeah, right. So my 18 year old self will probably be pointing at someone like me and saying that like whatever they
can do, I can do, you know? So where I think that that experience has changed me as an individual will be learning how to navigate situations like this, you know, learning how to work in a team, learning how to make sure that, you know, objectives can be met and also that people that you work with you are able to make sure that everyone's happy at the end of the day. Like these are skills that you can only go through. You can only learn when you go through them. Exactly. Yeah.
So so that's where my headspace will be. When you ask me that question, you know, it's like, has it been over time that something that you learned? I'm a hundred
percent. Yeah, I agree as well. And I'm it's not like, I'm advocating like, Oh, you should as a woman, you should like, tone it down. Sometimes it's not. I mean, I don't mean to see it that way, obviously. But you know, sometimes for for me as well, it was a learning experience to just not be so fiery, like First Lady. If we are too fiery or too, you know, involved, we don't see it from a broader perspective as well. And.
You're always stuck in your own lens, right? So I mean, that can be very challenging in a group situation.
It's a it's a main character problem. You know how I think that's main character, right? So we we grew up in this like environment where reality TV, you know, like Gossip Girl. So everyone is like, Yes, this is my social Bible. So we grew up like, you know, watching all these main characters function and then, you know, obviously it's entertainment. It's like drama. But we don't really realize that in the real world, sometimes the way we say things and and the way we express ourselves to
people like on TV. Yeah, like so funny and also cool, but like in real life, they kind of hurt people. So so it's about, you know, like like navigating and learning. And oh, if let's say I hurt someone once and I'm probably never going to do that again because like, like there are real feelings involved and like other people around you, they are not like characters to a story. You know, everyone is living the same life, you know, so. So that's where life teaches you lessons.
You're right when it comes to media movies, you know, and social media, even in the way that these stereotyping characterize these characters that could have also caused a shift in the way people see. Females who are in power or in control or more independent, right, because you see it on TV is like, Oh, she's always the boss bitch. Yeah, yeah, she's always the one. Like, we have no feelings, you know, like stone cold walking around like in her heels and
stuff like that. And that forms impressions. And yeah, maybe that's how people started thinking negatively about independent woman could be,
if anything, that a media, because they want you to fall in love of characters. Everything is put in front of like rose tinted glasses. Yeah. Whereas in real life, it's like it's not really that way. Yeah. Like, things can get a bit more gray, a bit more messy. Yeah. So you have to definitely like be more aware of like how you know, our behavior can affect those around us.
Yeah, a hundred percent. Thank you so much for chatting with us. Is there anything else that you want to add on when it comes to, let's say, communication or being in, you know, the working industry dealing with being surrounded by a lot of independent people and yourself included?
Sure. I would think that, you know, when we we're talking about alpha males and females and whatnot, to me, it's like, there's nothing wrong with it. You know, sometimes you know, we see how people like, celebrate it. We see how people don't like it. At the end of the day, it's like just making sure that you are not an island. You are working with the people around you. You are surrounded by other individuals like make sure that
you know you are alpha. As your non alpha, you make sure that you respect people in the way you work and also have a lot of empathy in the way you do things and treat other people, then I think that, like all will be good. It doesn't matter if you alpha or not.
Yeah, OK. What's to live by? To be honest. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Men Explain. If you like what you heard, please follow us up over at Apple Music, Spotify and Millicent as well. By the way, this is our final episode of the season, so please let us know what else you would like to hear in the coming episodes. And in the meantime, follow us up on Instagram at its Clarity School for updates.