Hey, what's up? Welcome to another episode of Men Explain, Thank you so much for the love and support so far. Today we have Ben King.
Hey, my name is Benjamin Kheng. I sing songs and I have never, ever photoshop my butt on social media.
Yes, you have. And today's episode is about beauty standards now for for the longest time, I feel, you know, us women, we have a lot of insecurities. We talk about our looks, you know how it affects our confidence and all that. Do men also experience this? We're going to find out. And Ben is probably one of the best people to fill me in about this.
That's right. I'm deeply insecure and I have a crippling depression.
But since we're talking about beauty standards, I've been very happy that it's Corvette season or it was know heavy Corvette season, so I could have a beauty sleep, quote unquote let myself go a little bit. Yeah, I'm getting a lot of beauty sleep. Yeah, yeah.
So what's your your your regime now?
The regime is turning 30.
I see. And what happens then?
Quarter life crisis, depression and a lot more.
And suddenly breakouts again, like you would think something
could be done.
I literally see nothing on your face. What do you mean, breakouts?
Well, you use concealer. You go to the face. No, no, no, no, no. It's all good. It's all good. It's in the hoods.
Speaking of which, I was married,
you know, it's like a disease pimple
now since you guys have been so far. I mean, we haven't exactly caught up on a public platform
about that yet. Yeah, I know we should, because those are
the legitimate catch ups.
It's been.
It's been good. I want to thank you for helping me with that proposal that one time.
All right. Yes. Yes.
She helped me set up a very nervous dinner date with the parents. Yes, I had to ask for. And that was the more nervous thing really asking for the hand in marriage.
I was literally like asking my staff over there like, Hey, how's it going? What's going on? No tears. Yeah, nobody said anything to like, Oh, I didn't. I was. I didn't want to, you know, but Jell-O?
Yeah, good.
Yeah, that showed up. And he laughed at me. Yeah, it was like, You're very nervous.
Yeah, you
think top 10 most nerve wracking things. Top three, to be honest.
And then you had a little intimate wedding as well quite recently. Yes.
Was that?
It was intimate and wedding. Yes, it was very COVID safe. In fact, we had to do the whole, yeah, safe distancing and all that. So that's good. And then we're like, OK, we're going to do a small one. And then when you know, things open up, we'll do a big one. And then as the months went by, were like,
Let's
just stick to that.
Yeah, but we should. We should know what we see.
OK, well, thank you so much for joining us here today, because when it comes to beauty standards is something that I feel maybe we will feel more of it in the media industry. I don't know if you agree with me on that when it comes to, oh yeah.
You know, I think as much as you try to talk around it and try to talk about your worth and everything, I mean, the most identifiable metric for us is is how you look right, even if it's not something about how you look. That's what people talk about a lot. When they when they, you know, have the names of media personalities on the lips, it's it's unavoidable. It's kind of awful. And so even if you didn't start out prioritizing it, you you do think about it eventually.
And obviously, when it comes to clients or agencies, they can't help but also scroll through your social media platforms. And it is a whole new conversation where like, oh, he or she looks like this, or maybe suitable for our brands? Yeah.
You think?
No, absolutely. I think it's it's obviously different in in the acting world as opposed to, let's say, the um, you know, social media world because acting, obviously, if you don't get the gig, sometimes you tell yourself, I'm just not right for the part, they were looking for someone a bit different and and then you can make a career out of looking a certain way. But I also do think the social media bubble has has changed dramatically. Like, maybe at the start you had to really adhere to
like this vision of how you should look. Whereas now like I think as long as you develop a persona or not as a persona, but like a certain style of looking and you put serious effort and thought into it, I think you can be rewarded for that as well. So the beauty and for that are a little bit different. But in general, I would say social media does share too, you know, very, very common beauty standards. In fact, it enhances it, right?
Yeah. So so do you do you ever at one point feel very conscious, like when it came to, you know, taking your photos and your videos, you're like, Oh, how do I look like, you know, especially, I guess, during the birth of, like Instagram, for example. Yeah, because I see your TikTok stuff and nonsense.
I love it. I love it. I love all old enough to be
around the
birth of Instagram. So I could say, I mean, I
have no idea I was already in existence when I enjoy it.
Yeah, well, I was around for the birth of Facebook.
That was a different time.
I wasn't. I have no idea. I was.
Yeah, it was quite a scary time.
But yeah. I don't know, I think we were all just trying to figure it out. Yeah, yeah.
I'm suddenly the currency of of who you are online changed dramatically over a year and suddenly or how I am perceived online is everything. In fact, it is a barometer that that gets you work if you are in this line of line of work, obviously. So you do end up paying a lot of attention to it. I definitely change a lot with all my peers and I recognize that change. Before, I would only smaller set than we would cover, and now I have to think of different ways to
pose and I like. Oh yes, yeah, I see all that stuff for you.
Yeah. Top and middle and
yes, everything.
Everything. Yeah. So definitely, I mean, did you do you feel the same way?
Definitely became more conscious, I think. I can remember what my first ever post was on Israel did something terrible.
You bring it
up right now. Are you producers? Oh gosh. Scrolling. OK, wait, you're going to
bring this up to you.
Bring my play some hipster bullshit, maybe some clout. Picture with the caption
with a with a quote or something.
Yeah, I like like wanderlust. So love, love, love, love, love, hate. I was a Tumblr kid. OK, OK. On Tumblr, you could be accepted for whatever Pashman you were. Yes. Yes, I do understand the trees
you had in the background as
well. Speaking from experience. Yeah, sure. Yeah, for me, it definitely changed. I think there was a pressure to also get better pictures, you know, or do my makeup better or, you know, because last time I just wouldn't really care, right? I would just show up to the studio. And you know, there was this term in the past where they said, You look like you're suitable for video, you know, I mean, until Sonia.
No, no, no, no. Meaningless. Confirmed it.
Yes, 100 percent. Because obviously in the past there was no visual element to radio, right? So nobody really put a face to whoever's on Al whose voice you are listening to that suddenly things change. You're like, Oh, you got to look a certain way or let you got to make sure you're presentable, even when you go to the studio. Because we might be shooting this and that
in your annual meetings now we must embrace social
media, but that's for you. And then I'll give to YouTube.
And now I have to be here with bands like No, which I
just want to look into a mic. This loser?
Yes. Yes, it has changed. But I guess what I enjoy about some of the jobs that we do like, for example, when we when we flew over to Indonesia to do travel, as is VIDEO Right now, we're just like, Let it go, be yourself. You know, you don't have to worry too much about how perfect you look.
It's hard to to look good when you are climbing a mountain, climbing a mountain. Yeah, yeah. True. And this flashbacks? Yeah. Flashbacks, flashbacks.
OK. So then I'm throwing it back to you. Do you think men or women get judged harsher when it comes to looks, especially online? Well, can be straight and honest. This is a no filter.
I know.
Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, there's judgment on both sides and it happens, I think, in different arenas. Yeah, but for sure, for sure. Women, women get it much worse. I think thanks to the crushing patriarchy and our very common misogyny language and the fact that for centuries men have been favourite and been been been seen as world leaders, you know, policymakers and they've been judged very differently. Rice Bowl, all that kind of stuff. So women obviously historically were
put to the sideline, right? And a lot of a lot of arguments as well. That base case women are more aesthetically pleasing. And so there's a lot more focus on that. So for sure, you guys get judged way harsher even today. That's not to say that men who get judged, but you can definitely feel the difference.
A hundred percent. I mean, it's just a confession. OK, let girls also are guilty of objectifying men. Sometimes I'm just going to put it out there, OK, since we're having honest conversation as much as obviously it is seen, I guess, from the men's side, a little bit more online. So these trolls, you know, these guys are like, Oh, she's so ugly, how is she actually as a model? You know, that kind of stuff that we see sometimes
in our comments section. But the fact of the matter is, I think women, we we take a lot of time to get ready before we start the day before we like to look presentable and all that and more so for us, even because we have to shoot, I don't know, film and do other stuff. How long do you take to get ready the morning
I woke up and minutes before, there's no way know I had an afternoon nap. OK. OK. Depends. Yeah. Generally I have
very oily skin, as you can tell, in about 10 minutes.
So.
So the makeup artist always behind the camera
to shoot somebody you idiot might affect me, would you?
OK, so five minutes, 10 minutes, that's all I'm going to.
Yeah, I was like, Yeah, that's
enough, OK?
So so what do you take?
Well, I was hoping to skip that.
Exactly.
Sometimes I think an hour that's OK.
Really is OK. I mean,
yeah, but an hour includes a shower and then sitting down to put my makeup on while Grey's Anatomy is playing in the background. So, so then in that case, what is your definition of attractiveness? Oh my gosh, I know this is a broad question. You can. Just have fun with it. No, no, right or wrong answers, you know, right or wrong
answers, is my wife? Yeah.
Oh, that's the right.
All right, posterity. Oh, OK.
Case I'll make it easier for you.
No, no, no. I have. I have a decent answer, but people are going to really shit on me for this.
I don't have A..
OK. No, it is better to say to OK.
Do you want me to rephrase? Please. OK.
Yeah. At this point, OK.
What makes Neomi attractive to you?
Oh. Personality. Mm hmm.
He's really digging a hole and digging deeper and deeper.
Yeah.
OK. OK. Didn't even need to had.
If I have to
look at it from a from a very surface level. Yes. Lowest common denominator industry. Or who is good for the job? Yeah. Produce a custom director. Typekit I can do that. But what is attractive to me as a person, I don't think I have one single type or I value attractiveness over the other. But I will say, like, like, you know, willingness to try and experiment with what works for you
is attractive to me. I think not being so serious with it and having fun because yeah, if you if you're not so caught up about how you look all the time or you want to try something different, I think I love to see that kind of creativity.
Yeah, it's so basically not taking yourself too seriously. You more of a character, personality kind of person.
Yeah, exactly. Like, I'm wearing a sports bra right now.
He just goes, OK.
And so I hadn't heard the shirt is holding up so well, that's right.
But no, I was.
Interestingly enough, I was reading this article before coming on today, and there's a new movie out called Space Jam.
Yes.
And and there was an old movie called Space Jam two in the 1990s and a very famous character from it. Lola Bunny. Yes, a fan favorite obviously has a very different iteration this time. So Lola
Bunny starts. Yeah.
Historically, Lola has been sexualized.
Yes. You know, she's always very curvaceous. In fact, she
was rocking the the crop top way before it became a thing, right in the 80s and 90s. She was the consummate like, I don't know, it was very male Gaisie. And and, you know, we just accepted it as a thing. Yeah. And this movie, the director made a very conscious choice to de sexualize her.
OK, so she
she she's never lauded for her sexuality or like, she's not romantic in any way. In fact, she's just wearing overalls and she's playing basketball and she's good at it. And there was a barrage of complaints
Why yo, you did my girl dirty, you know? Yeah, she looks like a clown now and like, Oh yeah, and then the director is like, Y'all quit. Yeah, for like
now she's like, This is exactly the reason why
I did that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
And if you want to, you want to trace trace that back a little bit more comic books. Men for centuries have have really destroyed what we think of as beauty standards because you just look at the way the milk cartons are crafted and that the female characters are just like. The the costumes are like your skin,
like latex, you know, it's not possible to be protecting you from any sort of, you know, no weapon or battle, and obviously, you know, there will always be these stereotypes, right? Like all women have to be that curvaceous, beautiful hair, beautiful eyes and guys have to be muscular and tall. And I don't know whatever it is that they, you know, used to see in the past. So do you have a few present also, like, did you ever feel not tall enough, not muscular enough? Have you ever felt insecure?
Oh, for sure. And the thing is, men don't have the kind of avenue to talk about it all. Like, you know, it's harder to press that button with other April as ugly
backed up
movies. I've been sort of toxic masculinity.
Yeah, with that.
Yeah, I do watch that too. After you watch this. Yes.
And so it wasn't this wasn't a big deal for me until I think it was made a big deal for me. So my height has been a thing for me. I'm not like, I don't think I'm really short or tall. How about one, seven three, which is like
I was below average? Thank you. I'm glad to be back. Yes.
Hey, man, I'm one six. All on a good day.
It's a good day.
It might be because I'm also wearing very tall sneakers. Nice.
And she just told me, crossing legs makes you look taller. So I guess I subconsciously cross, but I won't anymore because I'm
insecure about my high rise.
Got you.
But also knowing that the healthy conversations like these and being in a very healthy social cultural space is really a bubble. Even in Singapore, because we we have a healthy conversation. You know, I think a lot of our peers also have healthy conversations. But outside this bubble, general conversations in this country or outside, oh, it's not the same. And I think, OK, so I grew up in a very spotty environment. Yeah, I was in the spot school when I was younger, and I remember I was one
of the shadows and the fetus growing up. So it wasn't a big deal for me before that. And then when I got into the school, they became a very big deal because I was assured as kid on the team and I was made very aware of it and they were tease me incessantly and not creatively like the best since I was Shorty Ben and I was like,
Guys, well, how do I get right? We're about to
give me something more creative, you know? Yeah. Please don't fall short.
That's right. Hey, man, I think again, I relate to you.
I relate to you regarding height. OK? I love you. My stories, data about you.
I do value my lived experiences as a short man.
So that made me aware of how I felt about being sure, my shortcomings. And people always ask this question, Hey, would you ever do, of course, do all that? And you and I don't understand why guys are so obsessed over this. And I was like, Yeah, sure. And so I eventually did date a girl who was like taller than me. It wasn't a big deal until my friend started asking me about it.
I was like a U.S. leg, but you invested in my height like, yeah,
you don't have a problem with it. Why would they be so concerned about it?
Because it kept coming up in in random conversations with relatives, because relatives ask all the best questions
because of
it slowly aided to me. I was like, Should this be a thing? You know? So I think in many circumstances, we're not. We're not born with these insecurities, you know, but it's really like laid upon us by by other people that it's on our is on our own us to learn how to reject things that that don't they should not have control in shackles of us, including things like, you know, insecurities about how you look.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, height has also been a bit of a issue for me as well. I'm not the tallest go in the group, OK, obviously, especially when I came into the industry. You know, I have to admit, right, I felt the need to wear like heels all the time. When I went to like and
when he was a whole day is a tall order.
Yes, indeed. Yeah.
So it was so sad because I would never feel comfortable just walking up to an event in sneakers. And when I did, the amount of comments that I got from people who were like, Yeah, do you realize it's all shot like it was just back to back? Yeah, like four wheels, because I think they were so used to me, like having some extra height or like, OK, OK, bring heels or whatever. So one day I was like, You know what? I'm just gonna wear sneakers because I'm
just tired and you know, I'll just rock up. Yeah, and then I remember not going to name the celebrity, but this guy ended up not going
to name Joakim Gomez.
No, it's not OK. You know, when friends make fun of each other, you know, there's not from a bet that we can go, Yeah, no, it's not. No, it's literally none of them. OK? So, so then he rocks up to me and he goes, like this. Hey, Sonya, where are you? Oh, I see you today, but I kind of. And I was just like, Oh my God, I don't even know you that well. And you're the tenth person. Yeah, we can laugh about it now. But I think at the point I was like, I'm so tired.
I it. So it's funny because I don't mean to laugh. Yeah, I know. I know. Yeah, but at that point I did that to. Yeah, that's a lot of news, obviously.
Yes, we are and ourselves. Yeah, but yeah. So it was just like, I'm so sick of this.
I'm so dumb.
So you know how that feels, too?
Yeah, especially when it's at least as a joke.
You kind of like you brush it off, but also it's a little, you know, it's like I. My step as
opposed to like a big.
Exactly, exactly. So how did you then get over this whole, this whole feeling? Just go to L.A., Is it OK?
No, no. Give me a secret. As Eli said, Hey, I did my I did my yeah, ironman is just two centimeters
makes a huge difference.
It makes a huge difference.
Yeah.
No, he did not. You know, he's like 16 touches anyway.
Yeah.
And I was going to
write a piece. Yeah, I know
a few months ago again, I was on shoot for this magazine shoot and like, and you know how it is. You know, on set, sometimes it's super pressurising. Yeah. And I was doing it for a magazine where I was, uh, one guy and a bunch of guys, right? OK, and all these guys were guys. They were like, you know,
like super like supermodel
fellows. And I was, you me. And I was like, Why am I in this? And I didn't think much about it until a I got a comment from the hairdresser that like your hair's thinning out and you're like, put on weight. So I was like. He said it was great. And then I go on set and then the director literally,
like you said, Yeah, well, yeah. And he literally said that to my
face like this. Did you look like this like right now because I don't remember you being even remotely chubby or anything?
I had no idea. I mean, I think, yeah, again, I neither did I. I thought I was fine. I was, you know, running quite a bit. And like, maybe I had a bit of soy sauce last night.
Sorry, a bit more prosperous.
But I don't think in any means was I overweight or obese? So I had a good paradigm going into it. I was like, I'm fine.
Yeah, yeah.
But then I saw the spread and then everyone else looked like fricking great. Got chiseled jawline cut people kind.
Yeah, I worked out for a whole week after that and just like going,
Yeah, sometimes you go into a shoot and you're like, positive and you're like, I'm going to sleep this. And it's just these small little comments that like sort of chip away at you and you don't feel your best. Eventually, when you're in front of the camera and then you lose the moment right or you lose the juju or whatever it is or the vibe and that just really ease away at you.
It does. And I think it's also I just caveat here because like I think it's easier said than done, obviously, to ignore these things. And we both are. I would say, privileged and we are in a position of ease and we have work that comes to us for how we look. And I understand it could be extremely difficult for people out there and at home who are facing insecurities that that you can't even begin to articulate because once you do, you are legitimizing that pain and that insecurity. So I
totally understand. I do want to make it to assume like, Oh, it's that easy to get
over, you know? No, no, no. I mean, I think it's a very different context because in an industry like this is saturated and you're being compared to a lot of others, right in a very small space. So I think it's while we are not trivializing other sorts of insecurities and other other elements under this topic, I think it's just heightened. It's super heightened, you know, like emphasized more in our industry, and that's why it possibly eats
away at you faster. On that note, do do guys like you in the locker room or in your wherever you guys are like comparing like, Oh, like me, I'm macho. Like, they only do a bit more like walk, bro. You look very good to do because of course I know girls, we compete all the time. But yeah, it's kind of like, Oh, like, what a weight or like, whatever. You know, we see all these silly things sometimes that I feel we shouldn't.
Yeah, I don't know. And like the kid, the whole locker room thing like with men and the sizes of different appendages.
Yes, like we went there.
OK, yeah, we don't have it kind of is in the one of the same. Yes. You know, I mean, but then again, like
beauty centers always shift through the centuries, right? And if you can talk about those kind of beauties and it's then in medieval and in ancient Greece times, a small appendage was considered beautiful.
Really? Yeah. I mean, you know this? Oh, well, let me educate you on the small appendages. Not from experience. I don't know. OK, yeah.
OK, OK. I know this is a bit kind of like kind of gross, but it does a better ending to the story. Yes, OK, I'm reading.
Yeah, is this a larger meaning to this waiting for
the climax of the story?
I'm sorry, it's so hard anyway.
So OK. Back then, obviously in ancient Greece and medieval times and the Renaissance period, why you see statues, we have such small bodies. Yes, it's because that was lauded as as as
the ideal, as the
ideal aesthetic
because it signified wealth signify restraint. While other male counterparts with long yeah saw that appendages Waseem as primal out of control of lower class. Right. And that's why you see a lot of small appendages on Michelangelo, is it? Yeah, Michelangelo. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And other Grecian statues. And obviously this changed over time. Yeah. But you can definitely draw parallels to the female figure of the past as well
when being the. Says was an attainable figure because it was a sign of health and prosperity,
fertility as well and not
fertility with the hips,
right? Yeah, I think so. And obviously that that changed over time as well, because then they started to view obviously obesity as unhealthy. Yeah. But back then, that was the beauty standard. So like, the goalposts are always shifting.
Yeah.
And you know, along the way, it shifted to like all being skinny like and in the 60s or what like Twiggy and stuff like that, like those storm surges so insanely, you know, the figure became so different. And then you see all these like modelling shows, for example, they're all clustered a certain way until, I think, up until the recent few years. You know, obviously everyone's trying to be a bit more inclusive as well. And I think it's a great thing. It's so good. Yeah, you
know who's to say this? This girl is a model to you and not to me or anything else when as opposed to its own right.
It's hard for us to
say whether or not each century had that tipping point, you know, tipping point or the jumping the shark moment where they went, OK, enough is enough. We not we need to start thinking that way. And then if the needle went the other way, you know what I'm saying? Because, yeah, it came to a point where we realized that actually looking healthy is, is the goal? And then to what point now we're looking healthy becomes the apex and then
we all have to be super fit. Yes. If we all have a story to tell when it comes to that and then I feel like we're always trying to fit within that goalpost. It's always moving, whether or not we admit it or not.
Yeah. And obviously, this ties into how confident you are about yourself as well, right? Oh, for sure. I mean, confidence is the thing that I think also people seem to think that everybody in front of the camera, we are confident people are that we're confident of how we look, how we speak, how we behave. But to be honest, I think some of us could be the least confident people and we second guess and think all the time about it. I don't know.
How would you rate your confidence now as opposed to like five years ago
on a
test? You know, like when I started doing this, I had zero self-confidence. I was always like, Oh, I can't do this. I don't know, you know, like, everyone's like, Yeah, you can. You can go, do this, do that. But I would see my self-confidence was like at an all time low when I joined the
industry because you came up through the competition. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is super pressurising as well.
I will never join a competition again. Just saying, OK, just seeing like it was really tough. And you know that the fact that also during that contest, you get eliminated, you get brought that you get, you know, there's a lot of ups and downs, right? So I did get eliminated and then I got brought back. So this really was like, Oh my god, I can't do this anymore.
Yeah, where's my self-worth? Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And your self-worth was based on votes, which is, Oh my God. Back then, they didn't have Instagram at a point. So it's not like, like sort of it's literal votes, I think, through a website. Yeah. So I'm like, Oh my gosh, I don't think I'm going to win this because I'm not the most popular person in terms of voting, right?
So that's when it started. Like, you realize a price tag has been put on you or like your value is being tied to the amount of likes that you get now in this context on Instagram.
Sure. Yeah.
All right. So when we talk about confidence, how would you then rate your confidence level?
Well, in 2015, I co-hosted a week of night seven of Sony, and I wore a tassel dress.
I would say his confidence was 15 over 10, and
then I went up to 15 that week. Thank you very much. That's out of the ball, Roy. Yeah, it's your fault, really. You are welcome. Yeah.
I think Joakim attempted to also did it, but it didn't work out. He ended up borrowing my leggings instead.
OK, that's pretty challenging. Yes. Yes, yes. He's got quite a figure himself. I do.
Yeah, I do watch the episode too.
OK, it's a bit. It's very it's very
primal instinct, for example, with a puppy like it responds to two treats, right? Like a response to how much like it needs a stimulus. And for us, the stimulus has become likes. Right? Yeah. So when we get opposed it as a love, like if you start to analyze why that is post get more likes, it's because I looked at this in a way. I paid more attention to my pose or I sexualize myself. And then that becomes an easy bait, right? Yeah. And then everyone starts
doing it. And then people who are uncomfortable at losing out start going like, OK, I have to do it as well. And then it's a vicious cycle. So I you can see the machine happening. And yet like, it's hard to to go against it and stop it. Yeah, I don't have a solution. I just wanted to
to get it out there. Yeah, yeah. Well, that there was actually this quote from Yale, and I'm going to read it to you now and then you tell me what you think. Do men do it themselves? Sometimes, of course, but they don't let their doubts stop them as often as women do.
Wow, that's that's pretty bold. Men are plenty stopped by their doubt, I think.
Yeah, I don't. I don't agree with that, actually.
I think maybe it's just not a parent because they don't know how to talk about it as much. So you can really it's not really televised or documented. But we have crumbling, crippling self-doubt and yeah, and society.
Yeah, heaps of it.
But has self-doubt and insecurity ever made you think maybe I want to change my appearance a little like do some fillers or do, I don't know, do something? I mean, this is a question that sometimes, you know, we're being fed so much at all. So this actually this. She losing or this thick skin thing that you do like, don't you want to do it too, so you can get a sharper nose? Have you ever thought of this?
When I was in secondary school, I actually did Google about knee surgery
because I was so traumatized at school.
So yeah, I actually did Google it and I was seriously considering
it because it's
stupid. I didn't even realize this, but about 99 percent. There's a 99 percent increase in men wanting to get things like injectables and knees and stuff like that was this is become so common in some countries overseas and is more or less acceptable as well. Yeah. Not just women, but men do it too. Yeah, yeah. I want to look better.
I guess the jury's still out on that for a lot of people, right? Some people are uncomfortable with that. I think obviously, because like I have a few friends who've gone under the knife and they seem a lot happier and healthier.
OK. Go for it. I mean, if it
if it makes you happy
or yeah, or if you
had affected your mental psyche a lot before that, I had a friend in school, so he had a terrible underbite. OK. And just the trauma he got from school, you know, like, it is awful again. I mean, it was enough to see that the teeth didn't align. You know, but it was. It was also enough to become his identity. And when you're in secondary
school,
yeah, that becomes your identity. You are the draw guy, you know, Oh,
you're that fella. And people will always make fun of it. And then.
And then I was a girl in school. Yeah. Who had an overbite?
Wow, OK.
And then people tried to match them. No, because I'd be perfect for, you know, which just a bit funny, but incredibly mean. Yeah, OK. Yeah, it was. It could have been the girl the girl was. She was fine with it. She should.
I'm laughing at the ridiculousness
and the creativity of guys. And so when someone drew a photo? No.
Then it was off. We drew a photo instead of printing it out.
Oh God, that's. And at that point, you
said that point, like obviously stricter measures were in place and I was punished. But this friend of mine went on and he got surgery.
And that's completely I mean, like, I'm fine. Yeah, yeah,
this should be fine because I think it has been plaguing you that long. Like, you know, you need to feel OK with yourself. But it's not easy, man. It just it was. So it's tough to even think about being that person, you know? And it's hard to say, yeah, just be self-assured. Like, you know,
it's it's
hard. It's hard. It's easier said than done. You know, I also had a friend from from poly. He was very self-conscious about his ears, so his ears were like, kind of I honestly didn't see anything. But you know, you are you and you feel insecure about something he's usually like kind of sticking out a little bit more prominent than than the usual, the regular type of person. And he would always cover it with his hair like,
you know, Justin Bieber style last time. All that your hair's just like, yeah, you're intimate with your helmet, right? So the time came when he had to go to nice and you have to shave your hair off. So he was sorry. I can't do it. And he disappeared from he took an M.S. from school. Or was it doing school break or something for like a couple of weeks? And he did a tuck on his ears to tuck his ears back so that he could shave his head,
go to Ennis and feel normal. And this is when I realized like, Wow, you know, these physical appearances duplicate men just as much as women, and an end is you're stripped of everything, right? You're just you. Sure, you go. There is, I don't know, like teenage acne. Still, you know, I went through, I need to like back in school and, you know, he had to shave was have obviously he wanted to do something that made him feel a little bit more comfortable and self-assured.
I think it's also
I wouldn't screw it straight up. Point that out. I mean, I think it's also like a sensitive topic, but I'm glad he did it. I guess it made him feel better. Yeah. And then the argument is also like, if you are that person and the situation people tell you just own it. Like just be funny or like, you know, make light of it,
even though it's kind of hot. So to say it is
because you don't want to always have that at the top of your
head as well. And yeah, you
do want to make a joke and then make it fall short.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yes. On that note, I'm very glad you didn't do knee surgery. And you know, from experience watching Grey's, that would have gone very bad. Yeah.
So, yes, thank you.
Yeah, I'm glad that you didn't do it. OK. On that note, anything else that you want to leave your brothers here to do? Because obviously it has been a really insightful chat, and thanks for joining me on this. Anything words of advice or last words you want to leave for your bros.
Just just just do you, man?
And that shall be printed on a T-shirt?
Yeah, it's just do you?
Yeah, I think I think it's it's hot for everybody, but I think there's immense power in articulating it with your friends. I'd probably just reiterate what Aaron said as well. There's a lot of power in sharing your heart, and I think you'd be surprised, even like guy to guy. How receptive like we can be. My, my, my guy, friends and I have these conversations over the PlayStation Network like we literally have our headsets on. We're playing a game each segment, a few factory rules.
Really? Yeah. So I mean, it's fine. I think I think
you'd be surprised. I think that just that first step is really hard to open that line of communication. But once you do, it's
you build a support system. And I think it's. Great.
That's right, Poppy, stand tall one.
I think I lost on this one. I'll give it to Ben. Thanks for joining us today. Now, if you liked this episode, please hit the follow button. We are on Spotify and Apple Podcasts also follow its Clarity Echo and Instagram and Facebook for more content like this, and we'll see you next time.