Hey, it's Sonia. Welcome to another episode of Men, explain here's wishing you happy International Women's Day. Mm hmm. Today we're talking about the dreaded topic, settling down. I mean, I'm pretty sure like after the chinese new year lunar new year time, we were you know, thrown at a lot of questions when you're getting married and having kids when you're settling down. Thankfully I was overseas. So I really avoided all those questions. But to answer that question, today is my special guest.
Tell us more about yourself.
Well before that, you know, I'm not here to make any announcement just to be clear,
just to be clear.
Well, for those of you watching this episode, my name is and before joining industry, I was actually a full time digital marketer at a tech startup. And because of the local talent search competition called the Star Search 2019, I joined Mediacorp full time and right now I'm a full time actor.
Very, very nice. I mean in 2019, that was the year where you launched into, you know the scene and stuff like that. And it was the first time that I saw you on stage as well as like damn, this guy is tall. It's been two years since we met and I forgot how tall you are. Welcome back. Um You know, we've been chatting with you on zoom online. So good to see you back in person. A lot has happened since 2019. I still remember the moment we were on stage and
you're like, this is the song. He's going to be like a star Like he's going to be on the countdown show, like, how did you feel then? And then now a couple of years later being in the industry already,
That was crazy. I remember the day I met you backstage and I was like, oh my God, that's the DJ that always listened to, I was like, oh my God, that's her. And she was so friendly. I was like, I was like, oh, hi there. I was like, you know, busy, you know, just trying to introduce myself and back down on stage. I still remember it was only the second month of me joining the industry. Yeah, that
must have been nerve wracking.
Exactly, and everything just happened so quickly in a frenzy and I actually, frankly speaking, I didn't know what I was doing most of the time.
I was like,
when my manager asked me to go to this place and do something else, like, okay, I'll just do it.
Just go, just go, no questions asked.
Exactly. Most of them not really processing. Not only until, like, you know, in a few months ago, a few months back and when I started, you know, all the dust settles and, and I started to think about, oh, I'm a full time actor now.
Yeah, yeah. How is that feeling? Because, you know, obviously you got thrown into this and being a full time actor is so different from your previous profession, right, well, what do your friends and family have to say? I mean this is a long way to catch up by the way we haven't spoken. Yeah,
well, fortunately the first thing is that my family is really supportive of this career switch. I did consult many people, including my family and my then manager, ex colleague and also many other close friends and all of them are very supportive of this change, you know, is actually once in a lifetime opportunity. Yeah. And many people actually wouldn't get to try this. So I was telling myself, okay, hey, why not just give
this a shot and see how it goes. You know, a few years later I've been adapting and I've been quick to adapt. So called the pandemic, you know, sort of help to ease the pace of adapting a lot. So two years and I think I'm somewhat adapted to this new career and finding my I would say my so called path in this industry. Yeah,
for sure. I mean it's all about branding personality, you know, so many things you have to consider as well on top of that. And congratulations because coming up very soon we've got the Star Awards, congratulations and best newcomer or what was the title that you were
the best newcomer was was last year, I got that award last year and this year I'm nominated for the best supporting male male actor
role. So
that was a really an honor because two years in with zero background acting to be nominated. It's a great honor. Yeah,
I mean congratulations for that. Seriously. I think it's a huge accomplishment and you must feel so good about it as well or relieved or surprised or shocked. I don't know
when I, when I woke up that morning um you know my manager gave me a call and then I was like, oh do I need to be at somewhere again? Like in a frenzy mode, I need to be somewhere again. Am I late for something again? I don't remember. I was like, no it cannot be. I'm like okay. And then she calls her, hey ya, I have a piece of good news for you as well, okay, you're nominated for what I just
like scream
so loudly in my bedroom, There's not no one, no one else in my house.
So it's always like this is our best moments, no one's there to see it.
So I was so happy and overjoyed. I really felt like as if I won the award
already.
So the first thing I did was to call my parents and my family and tell them the good news and and they were happy they were, which they also woken up by my news as well and
they are based in Malaysia, they're not you, you're doing a long distance with your family right now. Semi
long distance years.
Hopefully they get to reunite with you know at some point you must be missing them quite.
Yes. Yes fortunately I think I just met them shortly after lunar new year. I went back for a few days you know in between work and stuff so I'm glad that I'm able to catch up with them after what two years of not one but two
years of not physically seeing your family. That must be so damn tough. Yeah but speaking of which you went back to visit your family during the festive period? Any talk about a time when you're settling down, Did I ask you these things? Is your family typically like that or your extended family?
Yeah, okay so fortunately this time around when I go back it's way past the usual visiting, you know schedule of lunar new year.
So I kind
of like you know I mean I mean I wasn't a sabbatical
alright fire by the way, this is my first official workday back. Welcome back. Yeah. Yeah.
So so during the lunar new year period I'm mostly not, mostly all the family I've seen is really just my parents right? Ah and then they know that you know I'm not in a hurry to settle down because you know you know Before joining industry, maybe they have some thoughts on me setting down before turning 3030 is an arbitrary age right?
But after Johnny industry they have no hopes of that of that happening soon because I think they do hold the traditional views of that, you know, being an industry men that you can't set it down early, you know, for the sake of like maybe your fans or your viewers or people who love you on screen, they wouldn't want you to, you know,
get into a relationship that quickly that fast. So to them, they sort of like accepted the fact I might not settle early, so that's why during this, they have not given me any pressure at all, but my other sister is taking the full brunt of it. I hope she's not watching this, but
She's definitely watching this. I mean you are 29 now, right? And um you know, you mentioned the whole thing about, you know turning 30 and then society has this certain impression like you have to have your life sorted out by the time you're 30, you you should be married, you should have kids. I don't know, like back then when I was in school, like Some people are like, yeah, by by 27 between, I'm going to be like married and I'm going to be a parent by 30? Well guess what guys, I'm 30
right now, nothing has happened. Neither of those have happened. So I just wanted to address that a little bit. Do you think that it's just society's view, like, do we necessarily need to conform to that? Is that still a thing even,
you know, I once subscribed to this like singaporean blueprint of, you know you go through school and then when you graduate, you know for guys maybe it's like mid twenties, early twenties from his early twenties and then you find your sweetheart university and then you B. T. O. First.
Right? Right?
And then you go and buy the ring and then you do the engagement stuff and by 27 and eight you have your first house, right? And then you settle down. Right? So that's the
standard standard
blueprint for any Singapore meant to follow through. Right? Um So previously I was a strong believer of the outside because all my friends are all doing the same thing
now really. Your current group of friends?
Yes. Yes. It's not uncommon to to hear your friends saying that oh I'm meeting with my girlfriend and I met in university or even before that. So so it's not uncommon to hear a lot of my friends sitting down. So even as of today, since you know I've skipped the blueprint altogether, it's not uncommon to hear my friends, you know, raising their second or expecting their second or like you know, moving to their own Bto flats right now at my age.
So I would say that this thing is I'm not sure why society is sort of put an arbitrary age of 30. It could be that's the question I would ask you do you feel of the pressure as a woman to just simply because there is a biological clock that's ticking away. Do you feel that the pressure is there? So 30 isn't exactly an arbitrary number, it's more like they want you to settle down and have your kids and so
no, I totally agree with all the tables are turned and suddenly he became the interviewer asked me, asked me asked me so, I mean I don't disagree with you. I think that you know there is a general consensus out there, people think like, okay maybe you've got to think of your health and your fertility and all that kind of stuff as well because You know, technically after the age of 30, you know, you're considered if I'm not wrong. One of my friends who has a kid, she had a kid at 35.
Um and it's considered a geriatric pregnancy
means
okay, you know, geriatric means old,
right? Literally
At 35 apparently is considered geriatric pregnancy already. That means you're like towards the tail end of your, I don't know, but I think technology and healthcare nowadays are changing that perception a little bit.
However, I mean I've had, I've had questions from my family obviously and my extended family as well um you know, asking where is Sonja, you know, get settling down, when is she gonna she's still so busy doing her thing and like you know seemingly traveling and doing all that kind of stuff, like is she going to have kids
at some point? Um And to me, I feel like because of the nature of our industry, I feel like it's less pressurizing to settle down, have kids, I don't know whether you agree with me, but you know, I feel like there's so much more in our career that we have yet to explore or experience or do that at this point. I can't even keep a dog. I mean, can you, You know what I mean? Like you can't even have a pet right at this point. So that's my really,
that is how I judge things. If I can take care of a dog, I cannot take care of a kid or a husband that's for sure. So therefore I feel like I need, you know, a partner in life who is also in the same thought process, the same phase, you know, eventually you want to work there, but maybe not right now and I don't think, I think at 30 there's still so much of life left to live
of course before this chat actually, I'm not sure if you're a believer of the whole society construct of social construct of marriage and family and stuff. So I don't know, you seem to me that I thought you're a nonbeliever, but after this shot, I felt that you have some plans
that, you know, I think it's a mix, you know, because I think some of us, I recognize that sometimes we are talking through a lens where we're a little bit more fortunate to be say more financially stable at a certain age, you know, I mean sometimes when you look at it compared to our peers or people who have not started working so early, um perhaps we have more financial freedom or stability or you know, and I recognize that we're looking at it
from a more privileged standpoint, but at the same time because people need to, you know, get their house or they need to get a B T. O and stuff like that. And I think that's also very important to be a homeowner and stuff and if you're able to do that together as a couple like honesty, that's totally fine as well. But yeah, I'm kind of like a typical Capricorn, I
want to be independent, all that stuff. So it's like just the way that really so in that case, what is your definition of success and stability then, since you're already approaching 30
you raise a really good point just now. You mentioned about, you know, financial stability and you know, the freedom of doing things. You know, my definition of success used to be achieving my life ambition right? In my early twenties, I was this hot headed passionate young guy in tech and you know, I was following people like steve jobs, Mark Zuckerberg. So my life motto back there in my life ambition was
to make a dent in the universe, right? So I want to leave a legacy, you know, after I passed and of course try to you know, impact millions of lives and not just like, you know, doing something small. So that was the young young me in the twenties, right? But eventually after I make the career switch, which I did not expect it happening, I look at success in a very different life right now. So what I see is that there are two parts
to it, right? One is definitely financially, you want to be stable, you want to be free, you want to be abundant so that you can make a lot of decisions that's not tied down financially. Of course I'm speaking from like it's a privilege to have the ability to
make choices without being tied down financially. For the second part of the success actually, I want to bring a bit more about interpersonal relationships with families, your partners, your loved ones, your pets even I feel that there's also a part of it should contribute to what you define as success. No matter how big of achievement you have made on earth you would want there to be a group of people or someone
to share your success or happiness with. So I feel that interpersonal relationship is also something that, you know, I've worked hard to, to build towards it and our factor in as one of their success. So, you know, relationships, family relationships with my partners, loved one siblings as well, all grouped them lump them together as like what I define as success?
No, I honestly couldn't agree more like seriously, this, this international Women's Day, I think it's more than just, you know, celebrating us as women and as individuals. I think that we share a lot of similar views as well, even as men as women and we all celebrate kind of like the same things, essentially the concept of success
is changing so much and it's ever evolving, right? And I like the point that you brought up about how we need to focus on, like not just love life relationships but also relationships in all aspects and facets.
And I think during my sabbatical there was one thing that I really tried to focus on two because as you know, in this industry you're like constantly, sometimes you workout hours, you work for months, you're filming and doing so many things that perhaps you feel you neglect your family or your
personal relationships, right? You're always like hustling, hustling, hustling, I want to do this, I want to take up this project and stuff and then years have gone by and then you realize like, oh damn, like I realized I didn't spend enough time, I don't know, quality time with
my family and my friends. And it it got me very emotional because my parents are getting old and you know, they are approaching their late sixties and I'm like, oh my gosh, like I want to spend more time with them, but yeah, so since you're you're on that topic and you've defined your success, um what's going to happen? Like when you hit 30 Do you think you feel any
different moving from your twenties? Your thirties? I'll tell you, I'll tell you what my take is because I just turned 30 so I'll tell you, I'll tell you how I felt. But you tell me first, yeah.
Do
You think anything will be different when you hit the 3? Oh
when, when I'm in my early twenties, I used to think that 30 is a very, very old age, like by 30 I should have been like this, this this I should own this, this, this, you know, I should be this and that. So turning thirty's back then to me was scary thought like, oh my God, 30 fuse Old. Big. Yeah, exactly. But right now I'm at the edge of like reaching 30. Actually feel that, you know, 30 is really The point where all the good things happen. I feel,
so I'm even more excited to hit 30. I mean, it's just an arbitrary number of a number of years you
live,
but I feel that there will be a lot more exciting stuff happening in my thirties than in my twenties because in my twenties there's a lot more insecurities figure a lot more uncertainties, a lot more, anxieties, you're not really sure who you want to be and you're still trying things out, whereas going to my thirties, I feel that I'm going in with a very stable choice or a stable path that's a stable,
comfortable, more
Comfortable with myself. And, and also there'll be a lot more exciting things that there is going to happen so that I'm more excited about my, my thirties compared to what I thought I would be in my early 20s.
So what was something you were insecure about in your 20's, if you don't mind sharing?
I think a lot of it has to be tied down to my career, I think every night, you know, you lose sleep over thinking like, okay, is this the right thing to do? Or like in my, in the right path? Or should I be attempting to do something else because you're just so afraid of losing your youth on something that's not worthwhile, right?
You're so afraid that, you know, you're lagging behind because for the 25 years of my education, I have been always been worried like I'm lagging behind my peers, right? So straight out of the gate of education system, you want to make sure that you're on par, you know,
or like you're not lagging behind. So I think that crippling fear is what that holds you back to really explore different paths, but after a while you realize that, hey, the competition is really not with the people beside you, it's just with yourself
Exactly and how you comparing, sorry to interrupt, but comparing yourself to others brings, you know happiness.
Exactly. Exactly. So, so I think in my early twenties, that's a lot of that, like, oh my God, my my friends are in the banks, you know, they're all from business schools. They're doing really, really flying high flyer lives
already, first kid. Exactly.
I'm like, okay, what am I doing here? Still like bumming around? Yeah. So, so there's a lot of, I would say a lot of insecurities and anxieties that stretches into like a lot of sleepless nights. So I think that's a lot of that. And reaching the late twenties, there's a lot more reassurance. Like, hey, it's okay. I can take my time. I can be in my own race and I just need to know where I want to head to and I just need to know what's being returned in my eulogy. Right? So
wait, that escalators perfectly what happened?
Yeah. You know, when, when me and my friends always discuss like the meaning of life, we love to have this kind of discussions. Maybe it's a quarter life crisis or maybe a mid life crisis. I'm not sure.
It's actually it's a weekly crisis for us. For me and my girlfriends, we sit down for hours and we talk about the meaning of life, but please tell me your meaning of life. I'm down.
Yeah, No, in that case then then we will say that, you know, to find the answer to that. You know, if we just start from the end, right? And just say that at the end, what do you want people to think about you? I think of you at the deathbed. Um, what do you want people to, to write on your eulogy? Right.
So from
there then you think, I mean it's a bit morbid to, to start
your work
today. But I think that's how you can think back and you know, work backwards and think, okay, what do I really want to achieve in this short few decades on earth? Right? So I think that's, that's how we got the reassurance and felt a lot more calm and at peace with ourselves to know that, you know, we know what we're going for and we're comfortable with our own pace
for sure. I mean, I know some friends who are young, you know, around your age or even younger who already know that they want to be a dad, like they already know that that's their life goal eventually they want to raise their kids and stuff like that. So, you know, the thing about it is I think for, for society, there's not as much pressure on men to settle down. Like you mentioned earlier on about the biological clock and
stuff like that. But um, to me like men aged like fine wine or something like, I don't know, like you guys get more attractive when you get older so why? That's so unfair. I swear like the moment, like we hit our mid thirties and was like, oh your shelf did what expiry date is here or something. I don't know what people say. All these like typical things that people say, but then for men, when you guys get older, they're like, well he's getting so distinguished looking or like he looks so much
better.
That's why the
40s. Yeah. Actually I feel it's it is quite a
double standard, right? It's unfair. It's so unfair. Sorry, sorry,
I spoke so long that I didn't ask you about your, what do you think of you being in your 30s? You just passed?
Oh yeah, so to answer your question earlier. Um so yeah, I just turned 30 recently and to be honest, I woke up on the day of my birthday and felt the same, I didn't feel any different. I don't know why because Some of my friends who turned 30, I think it's the concept of it, like you changed the digits of your the first digit of your age. Yeah, and it feels huge, right? And some of them had meltdowns. Like they're like, Oh my God, like what am I doing with live at 30?
But I think also coupled together with the fact that I've been working for a very long time as you would know if you've been watching this show for a very long time, you know that I love working and I tie a lot of myself with with that, which sometimes is not very healthy as well.
But I think due to the fact that I've been working for so long, um it almost doesn't feel like turning 30 was even a thing or an event to me anymore, but as I went into my sabbatical during gen in fact I had more time to think about it And I started writing in my journal. I still write journals sometimes, like just like as a reflective practice and sometimes I read back at it, I'm like you're such a stupid bitch. Like when I read back and some
of my entries. But as I reflected on turning 30 a little bit more. I think my focus started to shift towards making sure that my parents, my family, my immediate family has a better life moving forward and how do I assure that
that can happen? I don't know, it just, it was a sudden shift and that's all I want to focus on in the coming year because I think I focused too much on my career and myself like myself um development in my career over the past like few years, especially in the recent like 56 years that everything's going by in a flash and you don't stop to smell the roses at all. So yeah, that was, that was my realization turning 30. That time goes by super fast. Don't waste another
minute. That
was my realization.
Do you feel that, you know, since maybe when you're younger in their early twenties of you joining industry, you already knew because you always come off to me as a person who, who knows exactly what you want in life and you have a very clear direction and therefore you go out there and live life to the fullest, right? So I'm sure a lot of people who are watching this video envious of the life you're living. So I'm just curious.
I'm just curious. Like, do you really have a very clear goal and direction in what you want to do with your life or?
Yeah. You know, it's so funny because I know everyone thinks that of me, I mean for some reason, um I am very driven person when it comes to work. Okay, that that is for sure. Um I do set goals for myself, but this year I didn't, funnily enough, I didn't set any goals in the beginning of the year.
Make your resolutions.
I'm just going to live my life this year. My goal is to live my life. That's for sure. Of course, in a measured real life, you know, money is finite. Like we cannot just go, can't just enjoy like every single day we've got to come back and hustle, but I think, you know, it's okay sometimes to be
in between. Um I read this somewhere recently in a book, being in between sometimes, you know, you you panic because you're like, I'm neither here nor there, I'm not at the place that I wanted to be and I don't know where I'm supposed to be and I don't know
what I want in life. But I think the fact of the matter is that every phase of life that you move into, or every year that goes by what you want, kind of changes in a way, like you may be very clear, like, oh yeah, I want to do this with my career in the next two years, so I want to be a mom by the time, I don't know, 35 or whatever, but as the years come by, it's okay for the things that you want to change, I feel, but that's my
take on it. So, you know, you may agree or disagree, but I think sometimes taking it as it comes, puts less mental pressure on yourself, you know, and stop comparing yourself to people. I think that's the most important thing.
Number one thing I
want to switch gears a bit, enjoy attention to, to a quote that was actually quite infamous um that went all over online. Now there was an infamous dialogue between the late Mr lee kuan, Yew and Miss Joan Sim. It was, she was then PhD student in NTU he urged Miss him not to waste time with a PhD anymore, that getting a boyfriend or partner is more important and satisfying than your PhD. Well, I mean he didn't say
with any malicious intent obviously right? But it's sort of casual words maybe in the past, you know, of a past mindset that could linger on and I don't know whether some of that mindset still is around. What do you think?
I don't know, maybe, maybe when he said that, you know that morning he had a meeting about birth rates in Singapore. So that triggered him the afternoon to I don't know, I'm just giving you something while I'm just letting my imagination run wild, but please don't come after me. I think of course, I think it's a passing remark that he didn't expect it to have such a big impact. It ties back to a lot to what you have
just said. Like everyone has their own path and everyone has their own choices and there isn't really like is this better or is that better? And I feel that everyone has their own choice to live maybe that that girl who's doing the PhD might even want to settle down and have kids, Maybe she
moment maybe she didn't want to. Yeah, I
would say that that's not her priority and and for the fact that the academy is super important, okay, like contributing to like science and technology advancement is super important to our society as well. Yeah. I would just say that everyone has has their own path. Yeah.
And I've seen, you know, women who can have it all the career, the education and the family eventually at some point, right?
I
mean, maybe be my guest again in five years. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see whether I popped the baby by then. But I really don't know
important announcement.
No, no, no. Anyway, you know, obviously you mentioned earlier on as well about reaching a point in life where some of your friends were settling down having kids and all that. And do you hang out with them as you know, with, with their kids as well too? Or? Yeah, I do. I do. How do you how does that make you feel? Just curious?
I don't know. It's fun to be this, this person to go in and just play with the baby. You know, you can
leave them there and go home after that. Exactly,
Exactly. You have all the
fun. Yeah
minus the diapers changing minus the crying in the midnight everything. So it's like you only enjoy the fun part. So I was like, okay, that's really good. You know, occasionally on his birthday or like on christmas, you should buy a tour and just play the baby. I think that's like the best part of our say Sudo parenthood?
Yeah, So you get a taste of it. Exactly, but not like the full deal. You can choose to answer this or not, but are you dating at this point in time? It can be cut out as well if you are not comfortable,
I'm not married. Therefore I'm single.
What a big answer my gosh, You
know if the government forms asked me to fill up, I'll be like, yeah, I am
single. Okay. Got you. Got you are you do you ever catch yourself in moments where you feel that you're afraid of being single past a certain age or does that not bother you at all?
Yeah, that to be honest, hasn't bothered me at all. So you're okay
if you're single for in your older years?
That's the thing. I haven't really, I thought so far into like the years ahead. Like you know when I in my fifties or 60 if I'm still alone and by myself, I haven't given that much of a thought because I always assumed that there will be a partner that I spend my life with. It's just not now. Maybe. So a lot of times I wouldn't think so far ahead. Like okay, would I die alone or like leave alone at the end. I haven't given that much of a thought, but
being single has its own perks and benefits. You got to spend time with yourself and you really let your thoughts settle and then you can do things that you can truly say love yourself and understand the meaning of like what it means to be with yourself, be at ease, have a meal alone. You probably have experienced in a long while. But me alone and go to a
movie yourself alone.
Yeah,
I alone sometimes too.
You know, the thing is like I go to, let's say, I walked past the restaurant and and there's a steamboat places like I feel like having steamer for lunch and then just walk in and say table for
one. Yeah,
yeah. And and if there's a movie that like to watch, I'm like, okay, I'll just get a ticket for one and I just want to watch a movie. Yeah, It's actually not that hard to do things alone
guys. It's quite liberating. I would say, right? Yes, I
know you're in a very blissful relationship, but are you afraid of being single at the end of your, Let me touch with it. I mean, I hope things are working well for you and
your okay, touching all that. What do you think that um you know, actually I had this very in depth conversation with some of my friends recently and it was a mixture of this, this group of friends of mine. Like it's a mixture of two gay guys and to to other girls and we we we talked about it and you know, I think this is also related to an episode that we did with Jason Godfrey a few apps ago where we discussed what if friends and not marriage is
the center of our lives right? Instead of always concentrating on worrying about getting married, settling down, having kids and all that, what if we just live life and if we don't get married, we don't get married, we just have our closest friends and we decided that if we ever were to be single at some age, we just all get like one big house and move in together and take care of each other. That's my backup plan. And if things don't work out, that's definitely my backup plan.
Um but of course we say this jokingly and we laugh about it and all, but I think at the heart of things, most of us are afraid to be alone to some extent. I really think so. And I see it, you know, um in some of my friends, parents who, you know, unfortunately one of them passes on or you know, maybe divorce and stuff like that. And sometimes it's very saddening to see as well, like, you know, they obviously want to be independent and you want to, you know, live a nice life and all but
eventually do you want companionship? You know, in your golden years of life? I think to me, I definitely want someone to do life with that's for sure. Like regardless of having the label of married couple or not having someone to do life with is something nice, right?
Yeah, I think I think having someone to just be there to do everything with you and to Laugh at your bad jokes or two
like that's for sure
to do things that no other friends would do if you think that's definitely something that
or someone to hear you scream when you win your next style, nobody around me. So you know, naturally we would feel certain stresses when it comes to the thought of being alone at the end of it. All right. You know, And I think for some people as well who may be more accepting of the fact like, hey, you know, maybe I'm single at a certain age already. I just have to accept that I'm going to be, you know loan forever. But I feel like there is never an age where you,
you know, you start finding someone, I feel right. Exactly. Yeah. When you're, I don't know 50 60 like maybe you can still find someone
was called Sunset
for something. Sunset
is, there's a chinese saying it's called, teach
me, teach me something
refers to a romance that is happening in the fifties and sixties every time and age.
It's
possible because like you say maybe one of their spouses, you know, they're divorced or widowed. Yeah. So in that case then yeah, they can embark on this Hong kong Chilean and I feel that no matter what age you are, you can actually, if you want you like to find a company, I think there's no, there's no holding back and just feel that your offer a certain age person number and therefore you don't qualify to experience romance again. So I don't think that
I
don't subscribe to that. Like
that is so poetic to be honest. I don't know like english is not so poetic sometimes. Like mandarin phrases right? Always has some like artistic way of sunset love. That is so sweet. Hey, this is your next drama man. Like cast this guy, anything won't touch any number, you know?
Alright
anyway, you know, moving on to, I think something passed marriage when you have kids and stuff like that. Have you ever thought and maybe felt a bit concerned? Like what if you get married and then you cannot have kids? Like have you ever thought about that? Like maybe like physically or biologically like something happens and then like, you know, you have this ideal idea that okay, I'm going to get married and have kids and then what if I cannot
have
you thought about that? I'm worried about that
these two concepts of marriage and kids to be the same thing. So
yeah, you bundle them up together
exactly like when you're married then it's time to settle because at the Chinese new year people asked you're married and once you're married and they asked
when you're having kids. Exactly
like they just have never any
question, what is the phrase? Is it? Good job finally. Yeah.
So, so I never thought about these two issues separately.
Exactly. Exactly.
I haven't got myself checked
up. I hope
so. Yeah, but I actually haven't thought about it but I feel with the you know technology advancements, infertility and you know everything that's happening I feel that if a couple would really want to raise a kid or you know have a kid of their own ah it shouldn't be that big of an issue as of today. I feel I feel
their methods to do so like IVF and the other one was are you I if I'm not wrong. Yeah. So those are kind of like the two things. I mean I'm not obviously in the medical field so I don't know how to like really describe it proper but we all know that there's technological advancements out there even though we're still not legally allowed to freeze our eggs here in Singapore.
What about you? Like have you?
Yeah I have, I
thought you
know I've seen some people on instagram like friends that I follow and stuff who have done IVF and I have to say I salute you guys. It looks like such a painful process honestly like the injections that you guys have to go through. I mean obviously I don't know the step by step on on what what needs to be done. But it is a painful process, emotionally painful as well.
And I think you have to have a lot of resilience and determination for that to happen and the thing is sometimes it may not even work and you have to do it again, and it costs a lot of money. So I feel like, you know, you have to be mentally prepared for that, obviously I can't speak from anyone's perspective or point of view because I'm not in their shoes, but I can imagine for a couple that's trying so hard to conceive, that is a very, you know, it could be a
very emotionally draining process as well. So is it a thing where, like, you know, do you feel like I am getting married so that we can have kids and a family or it's okay if we get married and not have kids,
I am actually the guy who subscribed to the traditional family values of starting a family, so, you know, getting married to me would mean that, you know, starting a family of my own, so that would mean, you know,
having my kids. So to me, I'm a huge believer when a friend told me recently that raising a kid could be one of your biggest legacies that you can leave behind for anyone because raising a kid is super tough and you know, raising them to, you know, to be a really great human is also like way tougher than that. So that's why, to me it is something that I would see myself doing right, should my partners say no.
Yeah, exactly, but what you really love this person,
Yeah, okay,
then how, like you're torn but your partners like ned don't want a kid.
I think that would be a very long ongoing debate with me and my partner to discuss like a whether we should have a kid or not, I would really have to go very in depth debate on why she doesn't would not like to have a kid. I think that would be a very tough
conversation to have.
Yes, very tough conversation to have. So what about what about
you? Um you know, I hope my parents don't watch this, but I entertained the thought of getting married or selling down or having a companion, a life companion. But I don't necessarily need to have kids, I feel and I feel like my perspective changes along the way. Like some years I'm like, yeah, I can see it happening, but some years I'm like, I don't necessarily need to have it and then maybe I'll check in with myself again in three or four years and see where
I'm at in terms of that. So to answer your question directly, I think it's not so much of that. I think like you said, it's very rewarding for some women are like, wow, this is the most amazing experience of my life. Some have tough pregnancies and they don't want to do it again. But I think also it comes from a point of it's so expensive. Also to raise the kids and sometimes, you know, my friends and I also debate is it like a narcissistic thing to think like, I want to leave behind,
like, a good human being like that represents me. Like, do I even care for that? I don't know. So I'll figure it out along the way, and if you're watching this and you're also figuring out it's okay to conclude it all now that you've already, you know, you're approaching your thirties and you mentioned earlier on that 30 initially was that age where you're like, oh, is
the ideal age, but now you're approaching it. So, do you have a new and refreshed timeline of when you see yourself settling down and having a family?
Yeah, I think a lot of it has to um to do with like, you know, at what point and it's me and my partner, your would be partner feel ready at the point of time, right? So I don't give myself like an exact timeline, but right now, you know, as of last year, there's a lot of good announcements happening in my company, right? So a lot of people are getting hitched and getting,
you know, getting married. So the good thing is that they are setting the example that you don't have to wait until your 40s to settle down and to get hitched. So following their footpaths, maybe in my thirties, I might have announcement for everyone. I might, I might, I'm not saying that I will, but I might have just in my
thirties, like 31 or 32 not like big difference one of 39 I'm thinking
Maybe you made a late 30s.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So on that note, obviously, you know, it's been such an in depth conversation that we had today and I think we also saw a new side to you. Thank you so much.
Thanks for having me giving
so much opinions and you were so chatty and you were so giving in terms of your knowledge and your, you know, your thoughts and stuff like that in life.
Just brain farting. If
this is the quality of your brain farts, we're going to have you here all the time.
Please have me back for more episodes. one
100%. But obviously before we let you go, you know, just some concluding thoughts as well. Like, I think some things that we picked out from during our conversation, what I liked that you mentioned was forging your own path. Yeah. So, so do you want to just you know, leave our viewers with some parting thoughts on that
as much as you know, we have my own timelines and like, Sonya and I then we both have changing timelines, you know, according to the state we are in. So I feel that everyone can also have your own timeline and even if it changes, you know, for your mother and I think it's fine because you are working your own path in the end and you're in your own race.
Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. Um you know, I think when it comes to forging your own path, like you mentioned earlier on sometimes it just breaks society's expectations of you or which is totally fine by the way. Like, like I mentioned okay to be in the in between. Sometimes it's okay to not always have it figured out because I used to be such a control freak and like I must figure out like what I want to do by the end of this year. But I'm always
so like that, you know? But I think um having the time to sit down and think about it too. I'm like, you know, maybe I should just let the reins go a little bit because it's constantly changing and you know where you want to be and what you want may change depending on where you're at in that year as well. So don't take it too hard on yourself. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Men explain has been a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining
us. If
you like this episode, please hit the follow button. We're on Spotify and Apple podcasts. Also please follow us at its clarity dot co on instagram and facebook for more content like this and more beautiful people like settings face as well, see you next episode bye
bye