#185: Dolls That Celebrate Asian Diversity with Samantha Ong

It was actually good , in a way , to have that two year development process because I was able to build hype and really show my community like why I was doing things , really explain like the behind the scenes process . So they felt like they were a part of it .

Because of all of that , they just felt even more excited to you know , buy the doll on launch day when it finally came to it .

Samantha Ong is the passionate founder of Joey Dolls , a visionary entrepreneur and a loving mother With a deep-rooted desire to combat the increased anti-Asian hate during the pandemic and create cultural diversity and representation . Samantha embarked on a mission to empower young children by celebrating the beauty of Asian culture .

She did this through her doll line , joey Dolls . Now , despite facing numerous challenges during the two-year development phase of her product , samantha remains steadfast in her commitment to deliver high-quality , culturally accurate , beautiful dolls .

Samantha's personal experiences as a minority and a mother inspired her to create the line of dolls that would help children feel proud of their heritage and embrace their unique identities . So through this brand , joey Dolls , samantha is making a positive impact by fostering inclusivity and spreading awareness about the importance of representation in our diverse society .

I am so thrilled to have Samantha at the show . Welcome , samantha , thank you for being here .

During this time , we've seen a focus on appreciating Black culture and now we're seeing that focus go into Asian culture and I'm just so happy to be associated with you , someone who's making such a beautiful and high-quality line , so I'm really proud . Yay , Go you , Thank you . Now , if you are watching this interview live with us , I just want to let you know .

You can leave comments and I will see them . If you're on LinkedIn , if you're on YouTube , we can see your comments and I'll bring them up on the screen . So ask questions as we go through this . Feel free to ask questions to me or to Samantha and we will answer them .

So I want to focus mostly on the topic today of the struggles of creating a diverse Asian doll line . It seems very niche , but and it's also a high quality , therefore a higher price point product . So through our conversation today , Samantha , I really want to get into how you navigated all of that .

But to start , I'd love to just start with where did you get this idea to create a doll line . What made you want to even try to break into the toy industry ?

So I really struggled with who I was as a person , like what my purpose was , because I always thought , like you know , I'm a creative person , I was really good at doing photography and then all of a sudden I just couldn't do it anymore . So it's just like now what ?

So it was then when I was watching the news and like the rise in anti-Asian hate was occurring . So I'm sitting with my daughter in my lap and just feeling really afraid of like the world that was going to be for her where she grows up . So you know , as we were in lockdown , she couldn't play with anyone .

So that's when I was looking for dolls , and when I was looking for dolls I really it forced me to also reflect upon my own experience growing up and not seeing myself through the dolls and I didn't know it at the time as a child but this like subconscious narratives that really play into your minds .

Like I remember thinking my classmates , they look like my dolls , they're so pretty to be born that way . I'm not so pretty , like I'm so unlucky and I was so envious of them . And so that's when I thought , well , if I felt that way about myself , then I need to find something better , like more that looks like my daughter is through dolls .

And when I was looking at the dolls , like there were dolls that were called Asian , like that I felt like they were like the token Asian doll where they had like fair skin or black hair , but that was about it , like that .

And then there was just Asian and I just I couldn't connect with it so , and they also had like typically like stereotypical features , and that was something .

And then I think a lot of I don't want to speak on a lot of people , but I think many Asians feel conscious , subconscious about , about like their eyes , or you know , and so this is something that I really wanted to celebrate , and when I wanted to do the dolls , I wanted something that was really opposite to what we were seeing happening in the world , like

all that hate , and I wanted to really spread joy . So that's when I when I had so much trouble looking for dolls that my husband was just like , why don't you make them ?

Really , yeah , tell us more about that story .

So I think finding the factory was really critical , like finding the right one that knew exactly what I wanted to do and was in line with really understanding what we wanted . But also I didn't know for myself , I think , what I wanted .

And so , even though I thought I did , and so there was a lot of versions that I ended up going through of course I wanted it to be all culturally accurate , but in doing so , there was just so much research that I wanted to make sure , and also gathering feedback from so many people , and also the materials finding the right materials I didn't know that it

would be so hard and just making sure all the quality was exactly what I wanted . Sometimes I think it's OK , and then when I got it in person , it was just not what I expected . So that's when I had to go back and then refine a new factory to complete my design process .

And I remember just thinking like I don't think this is a good factory . But you also had told me you'd been developing it with them for so long . You had samples , I saw photos , so I didn't want to say what I knew we needed to say .

But I think it was when you I don't remember what you said where I was suddenly just like OK , I have to tell you , I think you need to change factories . Can you tell me what that felt like when I said that ? How ? What were you thinking in that moment ?

So when you finally said it and then you explained why , I was just like and I think you gave me that really good analogy about it being like a toxic relationship In that like that , really like I connected with it , like , of course , even though you've . So my feeling was that I've been with this factory for so long and I felt like I had this .

I guess I had to see it through , like I had to keep working on it and eventually we'll get there . And when you made that analogy with the relationship like if it's not the right fit , like you can't force it , like and I think that's what I really saw , because I haven't worked with a factory before .

So I don't really understand , like this whole dynamic of like . Initially I thought like I was so lucky for a factory to work with me and versus it being the other way around , like I'm the client , so I need to make the choice for me , yeah .

So I think seeing it that way , putting the power back in my court , was like a huge , huge change for me , because I just always thought , okay , this is the only factory that wants to work with me , right , yeah ? And then I need to keep trying to work at it and it just took so long and I wasn't getting there and all that stuff .

So when you were like , no , like , go find one of the factories , they're already vetted and then I think that also helped a lot , because then I knew that I could just go straight into it . And you also said that I'd already done so much of the design process .

And then at the end of the day , as you were describing things , it became very clear that they had kind of bait and switched you . Like they said , yes , we see what you want and we can totally do it . And then when it came down to the wire and they knew you needed them , they were like , oh no , we're not going to do that .

And then that was the point where I was like I think your contract , verbal contract of working with them is now null and void , because they promised one thing . They're not delivering it . They're telling you , they're making you wait and wonder , and they're not . They weren't even being clear .

Like I remember , one of your issues had to do with printing , I think , on a certain fabric , and the other had to do with a material like a lace-like material you wanted and then right , and then they weren't the printing . They couldn't explain why they couldn't print on the fabric . Oh no , it was a dying of fabric .

They were printing a skin color instead of dying or something like that . Yeah , so then they couldn't explain why they couldn't source the right fabric , especially because you were hitting an MOQ . When you're hitting an MOQ , like they should be doing , developing what you want , they're not using open market whatever .

And then , aside from the fabric , the lace piece , they said you know , we don't have it and that was like it . And when you develop a product with a factory and you do intend to order it not only the MOQ but hopefully reorders they're supposed to say we don't have that , but here are some other options .

Or they're supposed to say other clients have done this instead . Even if they can't give you what you want , there should have been a solution to the problem . Yeah , so that's what really worried me . I was like why are they not being solution-oriented ?

But I think when I was able to see like I get so much , I was able to make so much progress in a short period of time , and like the communication was so much better , I was able to reach them and ask questions . And so even if I was like why can't we do it like this , Then there was like OK , we can do it like this for these reasons .

And then it was explained to me I understood and like , OK , then I understand it , then I can suggest a new way to do it , and then they could suggest a new way to do it , and then we could come to like an agreement about it .

And then initially , when I was trying to find a factory , I was so at the very , very , very beginning I will say I was just trying to find someone that could do it like as cheap as possible , right , I think that really , really like , I put myself in a hole because I didn't know like the response that I would have , and then over it was actually good in

a way to have that two year development process because I was able to , like , really build my community . I was able to build hype . Yes and I really show my community like why I was doing things and really explain like the behind the scenes process .

So they felt like they were a part of it and because of all of that they just felt even more excited to have that to be like you know , by the doll on launch day when it finally came to it . So I think it was really good to do it that way , yeah .

So I'm sure when you were posting about them , you were posting about them as if , like , can't wait to get these to you guys next year or this year . So excited , yeah . So . So how did you start that following ? Was it Instagram , was it ? What platform did you start with ?

So I just followed , like I played around with a few , but Instagram was really the one that was had the most engagement and so , yes , I really was going OK , I can't wait to do it by this year , and then this .

And then I was like we're going to be on Kickstarter and then hopefully by , because I was really hoping for like a API month and because I think that's just a big for us to celebrate our culture in May . So it was going to be 2022 . And then then it didn't happen . I just wasn't , and then I was just OK next year .

But it was OK because in that last year was when I really increased my followers so much because I was posting a lot more about like production process and I always felt that when I was posting that I had to get like perfect .

I didn't really want to show like all like the pitfalls and all the stuff that I was having , but in doing so I think people really related with my process and that like I wasn't just like a company trying to make these dolls , that I really am just a mom trying to make these dolls for young children , and there was a real mission behind it and they were

being like I was really taking the time to develop it in a way that was true to being culturally accurate , so and so I think a lot of people resonated with that and even though it took longer than they wanted , they were happy to wait .

Ok , at the very , very beginning of course it wasn't really doing much , but as I was progressing and I was getting some sample prototype photos , those like really really well , and so I would just post like things that I thought like my target market , like defining that target market and then thinking about what their interests would be in that target and then

just seeing like yeah , who was out there ? But also I joined like several like mom Facebook groups that I thought may be interested and then also just posting things like what do you think about ?

Like actually a big part of my , my progress with like developing the community was like asking feedback about things , and people were really more than happy to provide feedback .

And especially the names , like I initially I was going to name all the dolls and then I was like this is a really hard process to name each doll because the name is such a significant thing and there's so much meaning behind it .

I'm really glad that I opened it up to the community , because I wouldn't have known all these nuances about , like the different cultures and what they meant and , for example , like the Indian doll I had such a hard time with .

I was so challenging because there's so many religions and languages in India , and so finding a name that would resonate with as many Indian girls was really challenging , because a lot of the names were so religious focused .

Yeah , I had to find a name that was that would relate to as many religions in India , and so even the Korean name was really hard because I didn't know this that the Korean language is so heavily influenced by the Chinese language and so there's not too many names that are just purely Korean .

Oh , I had to like , really really find out like which names were just purely Korean and that had good meaning as well , the authenticity is admirable .

But at the same time , I think it was good that I spent the time to do it , because I think if you develop a product that people really , really want , then you don't have to market it that much and you don't have to try to sell it that much , because it just speaks for itself .

And I think I really felt that if I had put out the doll that I wanted to do two years ago , I don't think many people would have bought it . Interesting . And so two year process , yeah , like redefining my idea .

So , even though the prototyping process with the factory took a long time , but it also forced me to redefine my idea and gather that feedback from people and add more details which I didn't really think about at the beginning .

And so because people could see all that work and really when they saw it they just like I had so many people reach out to me and say this looks just like my daughter or this reminds me of the clothing that I used to wear as a child and stuff like that .

And I thought when people could see that and really relate to it , that's when they really felt like the significance of the doll .

So my second question for you is this is really the personal curiosity of mine , Because you've done so much work on your own what value did you end up getting from TCA ?

And I knew that if I had sold the doll as it was , I just wasn't happy with it and I just knew that if I sold it as it was , that people also wouldn't be happy with it . So that's when I thought , oh , should I just give up , because I've already been putting so much money in my time , and I was like where is this going ?

And then I think at that time I was also seeing other competitors putting out their own dolls out there , right , and when I was like I'm not even beating the market right now , what's the point ? Sort of thing .

And then I really stayed true to making it about the cultures , because even though there were other people trying to do it out there , I was still really focused in on the cultures and making it so culturally accurate and spending that extra time to do that . That was really sitting out the pot from others .

Even I've done that in my own business where , because you made it , you start to think it's not that big of a deal . But , like when I saw the immense following you've already had , I was like you can't give up . You know how hard it is to build something like this . This is incredible .

Okay , so now that we're sharing screen , I'm actually going into your Instagram and I'm intentionally scrolling back . If you're listening to this episode , go check out the video on YouTube , because we're getting really visual right now .

So I want to scroll back into your early days of your YouTube , into your early days of your Instagram , and really look at what you started with , because this is something that I would love people to do more of , so that they can kind of vet and test their ideas a little bit themselves before they spend all of their money on it .

So when you didn't have a product in these early days . You're posting quotes that align with what people in your niche believe in . You're posting illustrations of what you think the dolls will look like , so you're posting their character designs . You're posting sketches and we can see there are variations .

Like this doll design here does not look the same as this sketch , this book sketch over here . But you're not , at this point , keeping yourself to much more than maybe a color palette . You have like a pink , purple color palette , but you're really allowing yourself to just share what you think this will be . You introduce yourself in some of these posts .

It's all about the meaning and identity of the brand , what people like you said are interested in , believe in , that would also like this brand . You announce your Kickstarter at some point . I want to ask how often do you remember how often you were posting at this time ?

And then I felt like I was just posting for the sake of posting , like that post was like a barely nothing post .

And finally , someone's like everyone was thought what it would look like . Yeah , illustration yeah , because at the illustrations stage people couldn't really visualize it Like what would it really look like ? But at that point I was just sharing about a story and like just here and there .

Like , I know that I don't like signing up to a bunch of email lists . I worry about what people would spend me . So I really needed to provide like value that when people joined the list , that people would get value out of it .

You know , I would tell them , yes , you would get an early bird disgun on launch day , but also we would send you like things that you could do with your children during that like waiting time . And so I would put out like freebies , like digital downloads , like if you sign up and I wanted it to be , say true to our brand .

So what I did was like these dolls were supposed to provide education and awareness about , like Asian diversity .

So I created like little digital downloads like about China , about the Philippines , and then I did like coloring books about them , and so they would just be free and then you'd have to sign up as an email subscriber to do get to get that this seems similar to what I think some of the lessons in module seven actually .

Right , yeah , so I think I was actually listening . I hadn't I wasn't a TCA student at the time , but I was actually listening to another Kickstarter , I can't remember what the episode .

I love going back , even in my own competitor world , to see what people first started posting and where they began and then and then you know , as you had the product and as you had more to share , it kind of evolved . You're sharing the purpose . I love this photo of you . Is this you and your mom ?

So you only had 30 days to do it , so I felt that , okay , that whole month I had to give it like my 100% . I had to spend all my time , you know , contacting all these people , and if I didn't get the number that I wanted , then it's just going to be there forever . And also there was a lot of Kickstarter fees .

So when you were like , why don't you just do it on your website and at that time I actually did have a decent amount of people on my email list these are the people on my Instagram Define decent , so I thought how many on your email list at the time . So it was , I think , about 4,000 , and then Instagram was 5,000 .

And at the time I was like , okay , if I can , just if I do it on my website and maybe I get like 100 people that order on launch day and then maybe I get another like as I go , I could still build on it , whereas with Kickstarter , if I don't get the people all in that 30 days , then it will be a fail in my eyes anyway .

And I just felt like so overwhelmed by the process and I was learning about it , like I had to do all these like stretch goals or like you know . It just seemed like a really complicated process for me anyway , even though I read about it and all of that .

And so I already had my website set up for e-commerce , had to like change it a little bit for pre-orders , and then that's when I just decided to actually I did a poll on my Instagram and I said , well , actually it was on a story , so it's disappeared now , but I just put it out there . What would you prefer ?

Would you prefer to do it on Kickstarter or on my website ? And the response was overwhelming like 99.5 , like only two people reset Kickstarter .

Because I don't like Kickstarter , yeah , wow , yeah , because I think they've had such a bad experience with Kickstarter and maybe they had say two bad experiences , but the common denominator was Kickstarter . So they just think , well , it's Kickstarter Right .

And they're like I'm behind the Kickstarter and a lot of people said , well , if we're going to pay money for it , I'd rather all the money go to directly rather than- .

When Kickstarter comes in to take a percentage and it's not even guaranteed to get to your people , that could be damaging to your brand . What if the thousand people that wanted it can't get it now because the whole Kickstarter is not funded ? And then what ? Like , you still want to make this line .

So I would say I feel like , from your experience seeing that unfold and other people I've spoken to , Kickstarter is for those people who do not have the funds to do it unless it is funded and are only going to move forward if they have enough people to fund it . Like you absolutely need the money to fund it .

If you are already , have your savings or you have a job that's supplementing this and you're like I'm going to do this either way , why not do your own pre-launch on your website ? It's possible . You did it through Shopify . Correct your websites on Shopify ? No , I did it .

I already have my photography website , so I just did it on the same host , so I didn't have to do it Got you I didn't have to pay myself , so I didn't have to pay these monthly fees and , like , woocommerce is free . So I just did it that way , just so I could put out some products out there .

And then , when I did the pre-order , I just purchased a pre-order plugin , so I didn't have to play like monthly , oh , woocommerce is free , woocommerce is free . Yeah , I did it's self , but there's the plugins and all this stuff that you can add to it . I did not know that . I did , yeah , but there are free plugins . You just have to eat it .

So that was why I set it up that way and it works for me because I'm pretty familiar with WordPress . I've been using it for well since I was a teenager .

Have you had a big failure in this separate from the factory conversation , Because we've already dove into that have you had a big failure moment in all of this ?

And then just like , oh , I feel like it's this constant struggle . There's no , okay , we're done with this , and then it's going to be easy from now . And so that's where I think , from an expectation point of view , I didn't know what I was really getting into .

And having the constant energy and perseverance I would say , to just keep going , no matter what hits at you , because sometimes I'm like , oh gosh , there's just so much to overcome . And it just feels like speed bump after speed bump . And that's when I'm like , oh , am I the right person to do this ?

This just seems like when there's just so many little things coming at you , it just feels like one giant hell . And then that's when I'm just like , oh , I don't know if I should be doing this , and all of this even though the pre-orders was a success .

So many people reached out to me and said they were in tears when they saw the dolls and I think if they were having such an emotional reaction just to seeing the photos , I just can't imagine what reaction they'll have when they get to see that person . Also , when their children get to experience it .

I think I would love to be part of that , something like that next year . Yeah , but there's a lot like during the summer . So there's even , I think , one in Colorado , I think the Vietnamese one .

Those are things that I never imagined that would happen and because I was like steadfast in our like a mission and what we were about and making sure the products would be , it would stand out .

And I know , even at the beginning , like I was so doubtful and people would say , oh , I don't know about this and , you know , putting doubts in my mind whether I was the right person to do this or if I should do this .

And so I think , even just getting to this point like this , me persevering through all the struggles I am pretty proud to finally be where I am at .

So , yes , they were super helpful and I think they really pushed me to do it more like have more confidence in doing it , because I was like , oh , I might have to wait until I'm like closer to date or like I have .

Like making sure that I had like a plan and then also like the marketing plan that you had in TCA and then , like you know , knowing when things were happening so I could be prepared for them in advance was really helpful .

Yeah , I think reaching out to retailers was like super helpful , because now we've got seven retailers at the same time , and so I think , like the module on the special day retailers was really helpful . Oh , awesome , like what to do .

I think you touched on these , mentioned something like this in the at the beginning of this podcast , and I really hope that this is like the start of like really celebrating our culture and I hope that we can put it into like more mainstream , so that more people have access and can see it .

And so I walk into , say , a target you do see like black dolls and you see the , you know , but you don't really see like cultural Asian dolls , and that's where I hope that we can sort of push and change that more . So I feel like it's still going to be our journey and but that's what I really hope to to push forward for .

I didn't know what I was doing and so actually that module about looking for your factories was super because , like those questions that you had , I was like , oh dear , I didn't do this I didn't ask any questions .

So I think having that knowledge and gave me confidence into going into it .

I really loved role playing as a kid and I remember Polly Pocket the most and I just loved that I could take it her wherever I could . But I wanted to also give you something else .

So now that we see , you know , the Bobby movie coming out and all of that , and the Bobby dream house that Mago Robbie has for , and I was just like , oh my gosh , that was my dream house . Yeah , they made it like real life , oh my gosh .

And it reminded me how much I really enjoyed playing with my dolls and even I don't know , if you know , actually I think it's called Sylvania , but here it's called Calico Critters .