019 Taz Thornton & Asha Clearwater. Hindsight is a wonderful thing! Making conversations about partnerships count!
Episode description
Hindsight is a wonderful thing!
Making conversations about partnerships count.
In a Making Conversations Count first, we are joined by two dynamic guests in this episode.
Joining Wendy chatting about all the elements that make up a great debate. You are not going to want to miss the observations with Taz Thornton and Asha Clearwater around questioning, opinions, debate and discernment that makes for wonderful colourful conversations.
An energetic episode that even features an attempt at a quick rendition of the Pearl & Dean theme tune, ABBA and the Wombles...showing our age!
These ladies have been pioneers in many aspects of life, business and spirituality. It would be impossible for them to pick just one pivotal moment - take a listen and see if you can count how many are shared in this brilliant conversation.
Connect with Asha on LinkedIn.
Your host, Wendy Harris, runs a training business and has been Making Conversations Count for over 30 years. She has a best selling book on Amazon and loves nothing better than helping others find the right people to have the right conversations with. You can find out more on her website www.wagassociates.com
#debate #lifestylechoices #worklifebalance #partnerships
INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
Making Conversations Count - Episode Nineteen
February 25th 2021
Wendy Harris, Taz Thornton & Asha Clearwater
Timestamps
00:00:00: Introduction
00:02:10: Accents!
00:03:03: The conversational approach to coaching
00:05:32: Learning not to sit on the fence
00:07:46: Listening skills
00:09:29: Think for yourself
00:10:51: A combined pivotal moment
00:15:39: Asha's pivotal moment
00:19:02: Sharing stories through online content
00:20:10: Taz's pivotal moment
00:22:58: Depression and mental health
00:23:25: Wendy on her pivotal moment
00:26:52: Communication from medical experts
00:29:32: Humour can lighten any subject!
00:31:47: Being labelled with a disease
00:34:26: Laughter impacts your physicality
00:37:29: Final thoughts
Wendy Harris: So, welcome to Making Conversations Count, the podcast that brings you business leaders to share their pivotal moments, a conversation that really has created a turning point in their life or career. Today, we have a Making Conversations Count first, because we have two guests. I'm going to introduce them as I know best, two powerhouses of LinkedIn, which is where I've gotten to know them, and that is Taz Thornton and Asha Clearwater. Please introduce yourselves, ladies.
Taz Thornton: Hello!
Asha Clearwater: Hello!
Taz Thornton: Go on, you go first.
Asha Clearwater: No, after you.
Taz Thornton: No, after you.
Asha Clearwater: We could be here a long time. Hello, I'm Asha Clearwater. I'm what I call a Content Coach, and I'm delighted to be here; it's amazing. I run my own business, I have done for about 20 years; how did that happen? Oh my goodness! Obviously started when I was 5 -- yeah, all right, thank you!
Wendy Harris: Time flies when you're having fun!
Asha Clearwater: It does, and that's me. Taz, over to you.
Taz Thornton: I am an award-winning coach, lots of awards, which my PR tells me I need to talk about a lot more; two best-selling books, three more in the pipeline. I do one-to-one coaching with people in business, working predominantly on visibility and personal brand, as well as growth and planning and all of that, rah rah rah! And, on an individual level, I work with people on confidence, empowerment and a lot of spiritual empowerment too. A lot of people are out of alignment and I help them to get that alignment back and feel more energised.
When I'm not doing that, I'm speaking on stages across the world, or teaching other people how to do the same. I've done three TEDx events so far and counting.
Asha Clearwater: And we happen to be married!
Taz Thornton: We do.
Asha Clearwater: We've been together 23 years next year.
Taz Thornton: 23 years next year.
Wendy Harris: So, you were just arguing about that before we came on, as to how long it's actually been. So, it's a miracle!
Asha Clearwater: Yeah. That was our youngest dog, Bailey, barking in the background. I think he's saying I'm right!
Wendy Harris: Yeah, exactly.
Taz Thornton: Don't you be on your mummy's side.
Wendy Harris: He's agreeing with his mummies!
Asha Clearwater: He is, definitely.
Asha Clearwater: But, we've got very similar career paths. When we first got together --
Taz Thornton: Yeah, you could pretty much overlay our CVs; it's really quite freaky. And then, we ended up working in the same place several times over. It was fun when Asha particularly was in the closet and we were having to hide being together; that was good times!
Asha Clearwater: Yeah, that was interesting.
Wendy Harris: My greatest fear about having you two on, without seeing you, which is what the listeners are maybe going to have a bit of a challenge, is that you sound so alike. So, it's great that I can see which one of you is actually speaking, because I know.
Asha Clearwater: We've had that actually. A lot of my family members, whenever they've rung up, they've said, "Is that Taz, or is that Asha?" and I can't hear it. Taz, I think, has got more of a Midlands, haven't you?
Taz Thornton: Do you want me to drop back into Brummy; does that help?
Asha Clearwater: Yeah, exactly, you've got a bit of that; she has got that.
Taz Thornton: All right.
Asha Clearwater: But, I'm from the South East, so we've got very different accents, potentially.
Taz Thornton: I tend to pick up accents wherever I go, so I've just got a weird mix.
Wendy Harris: I think you kind of mirror each other, and that just shows the closeness of your relationship, I think. I was thinking about it over the weekend thinking, "Oh, I've got that pair on Monday; that will be --"
Asha Clearwater: Double trouble!
Wendy Harris: And, for how we've gotten to know one another online and I know online at some of the networking events, Taz, and some of the empowerment groups that you've got on Facebook, I know I'm a member of those, your conversational approach to everything has really been what has drawn audiences to engage with you and then turned it into clients.
I would say, I'd take it one step further than just being a client relationship, because it's that people meeting likeminded people, and the holistic approach that you both take in your respective roles, that they become more like friends and family?
Taz Thornton: Totally, yeah. There are certain situations, particularly in a coaching scenario where, of course, you need to have very clear boundaries. But, yeah, I'm absolutely committed to putting people first, whether I'm speaking on a stage for thousands of people, or sitting one-to-one with someone; it's always their needs that come first. Sometimes that means that I'll have to push people in a way that they might not enjoy at the time, in order to get the best from them, but I don't think I could do that if I didn't have that approach of showing that I genuinely care about people being able to make proper, genuine, lasting improvement in changing their lives.
It's that framework that enables me to sometimes push people's buttons a little bit, because they know that if they fall, I'll catch them. And, you're very similar with your work, aren't you?
Asha Clearwater: Yeah. I think, for me, because I coach people on particularly writing content, but also speaking it, whether it's video or it's audio or it's written, it's about bringing the true them out in what they're creating. And, sometimes that needs a little bit of a gentle push or prod, and maybe delving into areas of content that they're not sure about or they don't think people are going to be interested in. And, I really work hard to get that through to people, so that we can work as a team to bring that out and bring the best out for them so it's their voice.
So, I'm really passionate about that, having worked in PR, and it's fantastic; there are some great PR agencies out there. But very often sometimes, it can come across as the PR's voice and not the client's voice, and I think that's absolutely crucial for good content and to get that rapport, to build the rapport and to get the kind of reaction and response you want from the audience.
Wendy Harris: It's bringing that personality that you both have, big personalities, and you bring that in. Sometimes I get to the bottom like today, Asha, you know, with getting the keyboard out, I was answering you, I was having the conversation in my head with you. So, by the time I'd got to the bottom of finishing the post, I was kind of like, "What was the question again; I've just answered you?" and now I've got to think what I've got to put in reply.
So, that's what I think connects with people. You're divisive sometimes and that's the pushing that I see, "Is this okay? I'm not sure it is?", so you're questioning, you're constantly questioning and getting people to not sit on the fence so much, which I think is really important.
Taz Thornton: I think, particularly when we're putting ourselves across on a public platform, we've become far too used to sitting on the fence. I think too many of us still have this old kind of 1980s, 1990s business idea that we just need to not offend anybody, because then we'll get more clients.
Well, Marmite gets cited an awful lot. They've built a whole business around people loving them or hating them. I wouldn't mind being 50p behind Marmite in terms of profit.
Wendy Harris: Sure, yeah.
Taz Thornton: So, I think we need to come away from that, I think we need to recognise that beige doesn't offend anybody, but it's nobody's favourite colour either, and we need to get back to who we are; and to go really deep just for a minute, I think that's where social media has kind of messed things up for us a little bit, because the algorithms put us in bubbles with everyone with the same opinion, and we start to believe that our opinion is in the majority.
Where in fact, step out into the real world, and then we'll underpin conflict, because we stop recognising that -- how can I say it in a way that won't get bleeped out? Opinions are like bottom holes; everybody's got one, you know, and we need to remember that it's opinion and we need to be proud of our own opinion. We need to have our opinion, we need to be brave enough to speak it, and that doesn't mean we need to get into conflicts and arguments; it means we can get into discussion and learn from one another, not try and convert somebody to our point of view.
Wendy Harris: Yes, it's a real vegan status, isn't it, you know, "I'm vegan, so you're going to have to be vegan too"; well, it doesn't really go down very well, does it?
Asha Clearwater: And that's the thing, isn't it? Since we've gone vegan, since we've gone plant-based diet, it's that I've noticed that there's a lot of kind of -- you can feel people getting really agitated about it very early on in a conversation. And, that's where I always say to people, "I'm not a political vegan; I did it because of my health". But, even if I was, you know, it's about debate, isn't it; learning how to debate on an issue and not take offence, just listen.
It's those listening skills that you talk about, Wendy, all the time; you know how important that is, really, truly listening.
Wendy Harris: There's equality in everybody's opinion, isn't there? It doesn't mean that you have to agree, but you can agree to disagree and have a broader spectrum of opinions to judge your bias on.
Taz Thornton: Absolutely, and to recognise the difference between discernment and judgement as well. So, for instance, if we just look at someone who has a different opinion and say, "Oh, they're an idiot"; that's judgement. If you say, "Oh well, okay, their opinion is different to mine. It might not be for me, but I wonder why they think that?"; discernment.
Just before lockdown, I remember sitting down with one of my clients and we had absolute polar opposite opinions on Brexit and foxhunting; it was a bit Smith and Jones. We sat opposite each other on this table --
Asha Clearwater: You're showing your age now, Taz.
Taz Thornton: Yeah! We literally said, "Okay, well why do you believe that; and, why do you believe that?" We didn't argue; there was no trying to persuade each other; there were no raised voices; we just listened and learned from one another, and then understood why we both had those opinions. And that was fine.
Wendy Harris: Because some opinions are not even based on fact, are they; they're quite emotive opinions?
Taz Thornton: Yeah, definitely.
Wendy Harris: And, they can even be passed-down opinions. You don't even realise why you've adopted those opinions.
Taz Thornton: Yeah, it's not your opinion in the first place, is it; it's somebody else's opinion that you've --
Wendy Harris: Yeah. So, it's important that we are unpicking a lot of societal constraints; I don't know if that is the right word. But certainly, we are kind of told what to think and where to think it, and this year has opened the chasm to just how wise that is, I think
Taz Thornton: I think that's exactly it. One of my big things, particularly -- well, we both run spiritual empowerment circles together; particularly when I'm sitting in those, and that's a mix of kind of coaching and medicine path and NLP and empowerment, even a bit of fire-walking brings it all together.
But, one of the big elements of that that we're both so passionate about is, we're not here to tell people what to think; we're here to remind you how to think, or just to think. I'll never tell somebody what to believe; I'll say, "Well, there's this, this, this and this, it's up to you".
Wendy Harris: Get them to think what else is there.
Taz Thornton: Precisely. Just scratch the surface a little bit.
Asha Clearwater: It's really important that, I think.
Wendy Harris: Three women agreeing; who'd have thought it?!
Asha Clearwater: Quick, frame it!
Wendy Harris: This is what I love about the guests on the show, is that we all have a passion for that conversation, and to kick-start something. We're kind of little revolutionaries in our own right, aren't we, doing what we do, where we do it and how we do it. So, it's just a delight to be able to chat with you today.
Everybody that comes on the show, I ask them all to have a think about a pivotal moment. Since you are my first duo, I have no idea whether you've picked the same conversation, whether you've got your own individuals, or whether you've just got a bit of a mix. So, who's going to go first?
Taz Thornton: Well, it was a bit of a mix. I think initially, we both came up with one each. But then, one of the pivotal moments for me that crosses over is when we were finally able to legally marry, and we were the first same-sex couple in Lincolnshire that were able to marry.
Asha Clearwater: Yeah, we were!
Taz Thornton: And, on my 40th birthday.
Asha Clearwater: Yeah.
Wendy Harris: Double bubble!
Taz Thornton: 25 years ago now.
Wendy Harris: You don't get that for manslaughter, do you?!
Taz Thornton: Yeah, but we were married 23 years ago, actually.
Wendy Harris: I was going to say, you're wearing well then, Taz, if it was...