Whoa, what a day. I get it. You know, Charlton Thorpe, you always start this freaking thing to farm, right? Never holding. Dagnab horses. Hey, everybody. I'm Kyle Rizdell. Welcome back to Make Me Smart, where we make today make sense. It is February the 28th. Tomorrow is March, if you can believe that. Can you believe it? I'm Nova Safo. And for Kimberly Adams today, thanks, everybody, for joining us. This is...
Economics on Tap. And whether you're watching the YouTube live stream, we see you there, or listening to the podcast, we're glad you're with us. We are. We are glad you're with us. So we will do our usual Friday thing. We'll do some news. We'll play a game.
First, though, we will do drinks. Nova, are you imbibing this afternoon? What are you doing? Now, wait, we should be clear with people here as you don't get enough credit when you do the Friday podcast because you've been up since like 1 o'clock in the morning our time, right?
That's true. I have. Normally I get a nap in, but I did not get a nap in today because I had to take the car in for... for the dealership service and stuff so busy but uh so no nap time uh that was a but uh i think you'll be happy to know i'm going to join you in a beer today all right i don't usually drink beer A friend of mine was visiting me and brought a gift. Blue Moon Belgian Ale. I'm normally not a beer guy, but this is good.
It's actually, I'm like, oh, okay, this is why people like beer. There you go. There you go. All right, excellent. I'm going with my usual go-to, Modern Times Brewery out of San Diego, California. Hazy double IPA 8.0 ABV. So, you know, it's going to get spicy toward the end of this podcast, I think. Well, cheers to you, sir. Cheers to you. End of a long week. Well, look, I know...
I know you put something in. I know I put something in. But I think we do need to change gears because I think people want to hear and comment on and think about what you and I think about the day's events and the old losses of the White House. Yeah. The executive residence as it is. I frankly think it's appalling. I think it's disgraceful. I think the American cause, that's capital T, capital A, capital C.
has been said back a generation, if not longer. I think, as I asked Catherine Rampell on the program this afternoon, that this will do and has done.
Grave damage to America's reputation abroad and thus this economy and the global economy and I think it's I think it's it's damn near irrecoverable Truly it will take so so I'll tell you a very quick story So we, the production staff of Marketplace, of my show specifically, not the whole unit, we were having a conversation about three weeks ago now when all the Trump defenestration of the economy first started.
And they're a young crew. I think the oldest of them is 30, and the youngest is 22-ish, maybe 23-ish. And I will not name names here because... they're not here to talk about this, but they were saying, you know, how long is it going to take before it can be undone, basically, because, you know, the American government is being disassembled violently.
And I looked at the 30-year-old and I said, you're going to be as old as I am. And let's just say I'm more than twice as old as she is. You're going to be as old as I am before this gets back to normal. And that's really sobering. But I really believe it. You know, it's a generational thing. It's a generational thing. If it gets back to normal. I think that's totally right. That's a really good point. Might not.
Don't know. You know? An item that escaped a lot of attention this week was that Ursula von der Leyen, head of the European Union, just immediately made a beeline state visit to India. Oh, did she? I missed that. Oh, that's so interesting. And they're talking about economic cooperation, cooperation of all sorts, building ties. And she mentioned something to the effect of a reliable partner.
Yeah, that's the thing. We're not reliable anymore. We're not reliable anymore. And look, America. So I have a whole riff on this, which I'll spare this audience. But the American style of capitalism. has a lot of terrible things about it, right? And it has done great damage to a great many people worldwide. That said, the American style of capitalism is what gave America this economy.
It is why this economy is the envy of the world. It's why people want to come here. It's why innovators and inventors here can realize their dreams. And it has been a competitive advantage for us. globally for a century and a half, maybe two, right? Like since the report on manufacturers. And that's been undone in the last five and a half weeks. I mean, I truly believe it has because nobody can trust us anymore.
I agree with you. And I think today's Oval Office meeting with Zelensky in front of the cameras was very instructive for me. And I'm going to share what I took from it. yeah which is simply what i took from it um so wait sorry wait since we're doing this share your background would you if you're okay with that which part well My immigrant, where I came from. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, so born in Iraq, Armenian.
by ethnic and genetic background. Raised in the Soviet system, Soviet Union, until I was 10 years old and immigrated to this country with my family as refugees. uh from that system uh i still remember to this day that kid uh looking at the piece of paper saying we can come here with uh with uh department secretary of state schultz signature on it and i remember thinking wow this guy really cares about us
This very important man in the United States, high up in the government, has personally signed this and said, you know, it means something to people. The United States of America. and the hope and the freedom and the opportunities it provides. And I think it's important. We know who the good guys are and who the bad guys are.
Zelensky is the good guy. Putin is the bad guy. And what I think is, what I took away from the Oval Office meeting today is that, in my opinion, There were hints there by some things that were said and the president's written statement afterwards He said, you know, emotions tell us a lot about what people really think. And I think that was true for both sides. It seems to me that the president has made up his mind.
And all this back and forth and diplomacy, etc., is simply delaying the inevitable, which is, in my opinion, it appears that the president believes and has made the calculus that... It simply is pointless to support Ukraine in the face of a nuclear power and that power and that nuclear power is too threatening. A country with an enormous nuclear arsenal and willingness to spend all its people's lives without concern is simply too threatening to fight against.
And it appears they think that Ukraine has hoodwinked the world into supporting them in a winless war, in a war they cannot win. And an American treasure has been wasted on it. And they think that might and nuclear strength gives Russia the right to have what it wants. I thought it was interesting that the president invoked World War III a couple of times. and said, you're putting millions of lives at risk. To me, that sounds like he's afraid of Putin. Yeah, I think that's right. And so...
If that's where we are, that immediately flips the switch of the entire world order, where we now have, we're going back to a time when the size of your military... And the power you're willing to yield, the brutality you're willing to yield, allows you to do whatever you want and to take over whatever land you want or whatever country you want. And you have to wonder where that leads us.
Taiwan is, at minimum, putting aside the humanity of it, Taiwan is where all our superconductor chips come from and China wants it. And has perfectly, openly signaled it's willing to take it by force. They've said, yeah, totally. Where does this end? Where does this go? So I find myself very worried today.
Yes. We're going to... move to something else i i uh i apologize over for putting you on the spot but i know not at all i think i think i know and i i squeezed you and people need to know that we didn't do i didn't coordinate that in advance but You know, you and I know each other, and I think it's important for people to understand what it means for a guy with your background, right? Yeah, thank you. Because it's different. Anyway.
We're going to take a break, pay some bills, as we do. Half full, half empty. Coming up. Change the mood. If you want to be savvy about the economy, the Marketplace newsletter is just what you need. Every Friday, you'll get explainers and analysis that make sense of everything from the moving markets to grocery prices. No jargon, no hype. Just smart takes delivered to your inbox. Sign up today at marketplace.org slash subscribe.
All right, boss, you're up. Oh, is it me? Are you sure? It is you. See that? Oh, yeah, it is. And that's right there in the script. It's time for half full, half empty. We have Drew Jostad here to host that. Take it away, Drew. First up, Microsoft has announced they will be discontinuing Skype starting May 5th. Are you half full or half empty?
Well, as I said, sorry, I had to close the door because my daughter's home and she's going to play catch with the dog in the backyard and it's going to get loud. Also, Skype was a thing still. Who knew? I know. I'm kind of nostalgic. I'm feeling some pangs of nostalgia. I used to use Skype a lot. And one of my favorite parts of it was the fact that you could have a phone number.
Before everybody else gave you phone numbers. And you could, as a reporter, it was really useful to be able to call sources and route it through. We'll get a little geeky through our computer and be able to record the sound and all this stuff. Anyway. But before anybody else could do those things. God just goes to show you being first. I didn't even know. Yeah, I'm... I guess I'm...
I'm half empty because I wish Microsoft had put more effort into keeping Skype competitive. It feels like it got kind of lost in the shuffle in this giant corporation. It used to be a really cool tool. So half empty. But only because they didn't put the effort into it. Only because. Fair enough. Yeah. Next. Next up, with Amazon unveiling their quantum computing chip this week, are you half full or half empty on the future of quantum computing?
I don't know enough about the future of quantum computing. I'm sure it's going to be amazing, but also like cryptography will be impossible because they're going to be able to write all that. I mean, was it you who did a thing this morning on quantum computing?
on on the show it was not me no all right i can barely think about quantum equipment yeah it's zeros and ones existing at the same time right and they're they're not called bits they're called qubits i don't know whatever i mean it's confusing
Yay, but I don't know enough to have an opinion. How about that? How about that? I'm half full. I think it's really exciting because the potential to actually... compute these extraordinarily complicated problems that we can't solve now I think it's actually personally and I'm not a technologist it seems to me like a much more kind of exciting field than even
I think in artificial intelligence, I think quantum computing is the real game changer that it doesn't get talked about as much because that is kind of as kind of immediately shiny. You know, and it's kind of hard to understand. But when we crack that code, boy, I think it's going to be a real game changer. So half full for sure. Totally agree. Yeah, I'm fine with quantificating. Let's go. Better than AI. Let's do it. Half full or half empty on.
book blurbs oh so this is an interview i did uh this week about uh simon and schuster uh not making authors go out and get blurbs for their books those little you know
three-sentence paragraphs on the back of books that say, you know, this was amazing, changed my life. Why not? Close to Marketplace. Yeah, the catch is, you know, it doesn't make anybody buy a book or not buy a book. It's just apparently authors have to go out and get those themselves. And in fact, as a guy... who has blurbed two books, it's the authors who come to you and say, can you please...
blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, yeah, sure, whatever. And then, you know, you flip through it and you write a blurb and you're like, okay, great, whatever. Anyway, I am half empty on book blurbs because they're just silly is why. That's where I am. I have picked a book before. Have you? Based on the blurbs? I've paid attention to the blurbs. Huh. Yes. I love the blurbs. Do you pay attention to what the blurbs say or who did the blurbing? Both.
Oh, very interesting. I think it's important. Hello, marketing. Yes. Why in the world would you get rid of blurbs? Half empty. Keep the blurbs. Anything to help get a book into people's hands, please. In this world we live in. I'm with you there. Keep the blurbs half empty. A very quick note from the comments. Fair enough. Colin Stevens.
Quote, first time joining the live stream, I usually listen to podcasts at 1.5 times speed, and the music sounds strange at regular speed. There you go. Whatever, as long as you're listening. Drew, next. Half full or half empty on ice cream roulette shops. Oh, man. This was an amazeball story by the one, the only, the amazing Stacey Vanek-Smith about the bond market. She is amazing. The allegory being an ice cream shop.
that doesn't tell you what ice cream you're going to get until it comes out. And I'm not doing it justice. See also 8.5% ABV. So go back and listen to it. Look. Stacy is a supremely talented reporter. It was amazing. Go back and listen to it. I, however, and she won't listen to this because I don't think she listens to this. The whole...
Ice cream shops that just give you a flavor without you knowing what the flavor is based on what they decide, which is kind of how the bond market works, I'm opposed. It goes to my theory that... The flavor doesn't matter that much. Oh, jeez. Oh, my goodness, Nova. For reals? I mean, if you want ice cream, you want ice cream.
You know, this is so funny. It's the cold, it's the milk in it, it's sugar, flavor. So the last line in Stacey's piece was, even mediocre ice cream is better than no ice cream. This is when it aired yesterday, maybe Wednesday afternoon. And I came out of it, as I rarely do with pieces, and I said, love Stacey though I do, mediocre ice cream is not worth it. And she texted me yesterday afternoon and said, mediocre ice cream is better than no ice cream. Thank you.
disagree no i completely disagree i completely disagree but it's still kind of like i don't need a lot of ice cream but no i if i'm having ice cream it's got to be good ice cream and if it's bad ice cream i'm not having it absolutely not ice cream absolutist yes i yeah on the other hand do not discriminate Although, in the chat... Okay, yeah, the beer's working on me, too. In the chat, someone said, pickle, Nova. Pickle. And, like, okay, when I said what I said...
Apparently that's it. So here's the thing when I said what I said I meant like normal non-ridiculous flavors I mean when if you're talking ridiculous flavors, yes, those don't really count But, like, whether it's chocolate or vanilla or strawberry or, you know, Rocky Road or strachatella. I mean, it doesn't really matter. Strachatella, yeah. Anyway. All right. Let's go, Drew. Where are we? Let's go to the pole.
Let's go. Oh, we're already there? Oh, my goodness. Oh, that was fast. Oh, my goodness. I'm not ready. I'm not ready. Look, you've got to keep up on this podcast, Nova. Jesus, where have you been, pal? How many times have you done this? All right, let's go. Drew, what? Are you half full or half empty on today's 24 hour so-called economic blackout?
Oh, very interesting. Oh, yes. Very interesting. Mitchell Hartman had a piece on this this morning. I was going to say, I was going to ask you if it was you, but clearly not. No, it was Mitchell. All right. Well, look, in my defense. In my defense, it was 3.50 in the morning when I listened to it. We all sound the same at that hour. Kind of, yeah. I mean, love you guys, but yeah. So I...
So you want to tell them what this was about? No, no. You go. You go. I've talked enough. Yeah. Well, you really have. You really, really have. Everyone's saying it. It's been nice knowing you, Nova. Did it go through your nose? Occasionally guest hosting on this podcast. I'm sorry today's your last day. Oh, my God. Oh, Lordy. How much alcohol is this?
Okay. You have 5.4. Come on, cowboy. I know. I know. Seriously. So, yeah, a group came up with this idea. It spread online. The idea that, you know, for 24 hours, you're going to have a boycott. Don't buy anything. spend money to send a message that folks are unhappy with the direction our country is going in over the last month. This is Take It On.
More steam than boycotts usually do, frankly. It's kind of life, yeah, for sure. Which tells you, yeah, it's definitely kind of hit a chord with people. Mitchell Hartman's piece was... about how it's very very unlikely to have a blip yeah but it gives a sense of community and purpose for folks and it's an outlet and so it has its has a kind of purpose on its own just there More focused boycotts we know can have an effect. This is just a very kind of broad one, so it's a tougher call.
Yeah, we still have a minute to go on the blackout. No, go ahead, whatever. People who voted have voted. Honestly, look, I'm half full on the concept of... freedom of speech to express your opinions and to try to make a statement in this way and to give people a sense of empowerment. I just, you know, want people to have
To temper their expectations. That's exactly right. I want people to have realistic expectations, right? This is not the great boycott of the United Farm Workers in the 60s, right? But... As I have said on this podcast many a time, and I'm cribbing this line from Scott Galloway, who cribbed it from somebody else. Action absorbs anxiety. And I understand a lot of people are really anxious right now. And if it if it gives you some sense of control.
to do this boycott, then yes, by all means, a thousand percent. So, you know, half full. Half full. Well, the poll results are in. Half full, 76%. Half empty, 23%. So definitely the folks are with you there. I just called you David. Well, they're with us. You know, that's fine. So funny story, and then we'll get out of here.
Really? We will. So for those who aren't familiar with the history of Marketplace, the host of the flagship program, of which I am now honored to be the host of, it went David Brancaccio for 10 years. David Brown for two years and then me for way too long from then till now. And for a long time after I got this job, there was a whole like thread in public radio. And this is before like threads were a thing of.
the three of us all sounded the same and we were all the same dude you know yeah no truly ridiculous that really cannot be more different and And my response was, if you take David Broncaccio and David Brown and me and you butt cut us together, you will hear it. But if you don't, what you are hearing is the sound of the program, right? Of this thing that David... crafted and really created and that we now, you and me and everybody else, carry forward.
And I take that as a compliment, right? Marketplace sounds like Marketplace. It doesn't sound like anything else on public radio. And forget who's actually standing in front of the microphone as the host. It's about what we do and how we do it, not who. person standing in front of the microphone is. Anyway. You don't give yourself enough credit, sir. I...
You have definitely put your own stamp on the show in a very, very positive and wonderful way. I have the easiest job in the shop. I speak my native tongue into a microphone. That's what I do. All right. Thank you, Charles. All right. Kimberly is back on Monday. I don't know where she's been. I hope she's having a good time. In the meanwhile, comments, questions, suggestions, all of that stuff.
but tell them how to get it to us. You can do that by emailing makemesmartatmarketplace.org or leave us a voicemail at 508-827-6278 or 508-UBSMART. Letters, by the way. It's the letters U-B-S-M-A-R-T. Just a little shout-out to Andy Scott, who's been here almost as long as I have. Oh, my God. It's time for me to go away. Make Me Smart is produced by Courtney Bergseker, our intern is Ohamalik.
Today's episode, I know. Today's episode was engineered by Charlton Thorpe. The team behind our Friday game is Emily McCune, Jamila Huxtable, and Antoinette Brock. Marissa Cabrera is our senior producer. Bridget Botnar is the director of podcasts. And Francesca Levy is the executive director of Digital and On Demand. Neil Scarborough has nothing to do with what happens in this show. I would like to say that. Well, it was nice knowing you, Kai.
It's a test every day, and he fails to meet the challenge. That's all I'm saying.