Hey, welcome to my podcast. This is a podcast where I'll be teaching you all the systems and strategies you need in creating your visibility so you can turn your passion for coaching into a profitable business. I'm your host, Michelle Quaid. I am a Visibility Coach content and email marketing strategist, international speaker and author, as well as the founder of Elevate life coaching, that just say that I know a few things about overcoming seemingly impossible obstacles
in life and in business. I'm on a mission to be the champion that helps you to get to the top of your mountain, one courageous step at a time. Welcome to the show. Today, super excited because I actually had one of my clients joining me, and she and I, she and I met each other just not too long ago this year. But she's been doing a lot of amazing stuff. And she has been put by multiple podcasts already. And her message is just
very, very important. And it's very relatable because at the end of the day, a lot of what we're doing are building relationship and heavy relationship. And I remember back in the days when I was struggling with my own relationship, I kept listing my relationship status as complicated. I mean, relationship complicated, like isn't really that complicated. We're going to find out. Today I have Jen Chow, who is a certified professional coach for
the LGBTQ plus community. As the founder of see how coaching Jen helps LGBTQ plus women become better partner so they can create the relationship they desire and deserve. Clients who work with her feels lost in the relationship. That sounds like me couple of years ago. They struggle with self doubt, effective communication and unclear expectation, which then starts to create tension in the
relationship. That also sounds me and if this is you also dropped me a heart or maybe a blue heart or broken heart if you're still in that process of healing. If your current relationship status is listed as complicated, drop a broken heart inside the chat. All right, she works together with one on one with her client and her clients get clarity on what they truly
desire in a relationship. They get deeper self awareness and walking through all the mental and emotional blocks to show up in their partnership so that they can have more authenticity and competent jazz education achievement include ICF accredited associate certified coach, Certified Energy leadership index Master Practitioner, certified professional coach and certified
encouragement consultant. Jenna was born in Taiwan grew up in California, and today she lives in Osaka, Japan, with her partner, a dental hygienist turned English instructor. So please join me with a warm welcome Jen Chow, who is going to talk to us and share her insights about how to make better connection and a better relationship. Hi, Jen.
Hey, Michelle. Hi. It's so great to have you. Thank you so much.
Oh, of course. Thank you so much for coming. I just I know. It's so exciting. Because you're actually in California this Yes.
Yes. So this is my kid room when I was a kid. Yeah.
How did you how did you go from living and grew up in California going to Osaka, Japan.
I think it was kind of I got to a point that I really needed to get away from where I was living. And I left immediately after I graduated university. And it was kind of an escape for me actually, in all, in all sense. I think I just needed to get away and kind of find myself. And so that's how I I just kind of left after graduating. I didn't really know what I wanted to do with my
life. I was in a very, very weird period of my life, but I think a lot of people were but I was really I just knew I was very very unhappy here. I was closeted here I was not open I didn't even know what I was. I thought there was a lot of things that were wrong with me. And I just thought you know, a change of scenery. A change of just lifestyle would give me the opportunity to kind of I guess, discover myself so
it was it was it easy to just cuz you were you were in your 20s when you left California.
I turned 21 there yet was it easy for
you to go I imagine you had a lot of you have friends, you have family here? And was it easy for you to just drop everything and just say, You know what, California is really not for me, I'm going to pack up and I'm going to go to Japan.
As a great question. I think my dream has always been to live in Japan. Actually, since I was a very young kid, it was difficult, in a sense, because I have my family here. I wasn't exactly like a popular kid in high school. So friends was okay. And the thing was, I actually didn't think I would go there long term, I really just I got a contract to teach English in Japan. And so it was only like a year contract. And you could renew if you wanted, the plan was only to go for two
years. And I promised my mom, I would hold her like, I will just stay there for two years, I promise, I'll come back, it'll be great. And she's like, Oh, guy, two years is fine. So I mean, there was always a plan for me to come back. And then fast forward 13 years now, I'm still back there. So she's not quite happy about that. But
and so I kind of want to go into how you got involved with the LGBTQ plus community, because I think, you know, just from what I heard, and I actually know this, because you told me, I can kind of think that, you know, not everyone stepped out of their closet until something happened in their life. And something that made them realize that you know, what, this is a new self identity and the area where I want to explore and just being true to myself, so was it in
California? Or did you find out that you, you have this your self identity is you identify yourself as a lesbian? When did that happen?
You know, that really happened when I was in Japan. I mean, I always knew there was something a little different about me, you know, going through puberty, and like, I was crushing on a lot of the girls, like, a lot of my girlfriends when they were talking about the cute guy and whatever. And I was like, Oh, I don't, I don't feel that way. And so I definitely had kind of a peek into it when I was young in California. But I didn't really I was so scared of
what that meant. And I had a lot of shame and guilt and embarrassment about it. So I didn't really think about it. I did, I spent all my time kind of trying to avoid anything that was like this, I guess, until I went to Japan when I went to a place where no one knew who I was. And so I started my first same sex relationship in Japan. And I realized, you know, I kind of gave myself this opportunity. And I think going to Japan, it was, it was an opportunity to
try new things. I mean, going to Japan was trying new things. Alright, so I thought Well, might as well just keep going and try new things. And I realized, okay, this is I mean, I've dated guys before in the past. And that was it just never felt right. It felt really awkward for me. And I in my relationships, the longest one was like, a month. And I just
could not like continue it. So it wasn't until I went into Japan went to Japan and I met someone and then I fell completely head over heels for a woman. And then I think that was that I've never felt that ever before in my life. And I was like, Okay, well, I don't know how much clearer I need to know, this is it. And so from there, it was just kind of, I mean, I just, I just had to kind of come out to myself and realize this is who I am. And this feels the most comfortable for me.
I think, you know, just to give the listener and the viewer, a little background. So Jen was born in Taiwan. And, you know, I'm also from I was also born in Taiwan. So there's that very close connection. And I really understand what that what that cultural coming out from an Asian culture where the LGBTQ community it has not been widely accepted. In the ages where we, we both grew up. And it was not something that we can openly talk about, or you when you hear there's still a lot of judgment
around. Oh, what does that mean? Well, well, how could you ever say that? Oh, how do you even know? So there's a lot of judgment around that self identity that you're you're stepping into. And I really I salute you for that, because that actually takes a lot of courage to actually step up and say, You know what I am who I am, this is how I go, how I'm going to live my life, whether you like it or not, it's not
about you, it's about me. And so having that having that truth and stepping into your true identity. I'm sure there was a lot of relationship a A new adventures that you have never been exposed to before. So going to Japan was one, you know, something that's new. Exploring, being an English teacher in a foreign country is another new thing. And now you're finding yourself in this new lifestyle, a relationship? What were some of the challenges that you experienced, as you know, in the
in the LGBTQ plus community? Oh, that's
a another really great question. Thank you so much. I think I kind of came out to myself in Japan, which, like you said, is not you know, being an Asian Indonesian culture. It's not really, as accepted, widely accepted as it is in the Western countries. And so in Japan, it is even I think, even more closed than it is even then compared to Taiwan, for example, our hometown. So it's very, very hush hush, quiet, nobody. There's no open homophobia, but
it's very unseen. It's like, don't say don't, what is it that don't say, don't speak or write. So that experience was kind of strange. And it kind of, in a way, it was so freeing, because there were no rules, really, there were no expectations, or whatever. And it was almost in my own self expectations that was really causing me in a box. Because I didn't grow up with a lot of resources, a lot of exposure to people like me, or people like us, like the Asian
community. Like you said, I, I didn't know anybody who looked like me, who felt the way that I felt. And so going into a relationship, it was really difficult, because I had no idea what a lesbian relationship or say, same sex relationship look like, I had some gay friends. But there guys, and I was like, I, I don't, there's definitely differences. I mean, there's physical differences, there's, there's definitely some aspects of the way that we deal with things that are quite different.
So I was under the impression of like, okay, so I guess the only image I had of a relationship was the, you know, the heteronormative relationship. So if there has to be an eye, I mean, I think a lot of the people in the LGBT community will be shocked to hear me say, but I had the stereotype of, okay, so I should be like the man and the relationship, and my, my girlfriend has to be like to grow on the relationship. And it just, I mean, it didn't work out, it really did not work out
that way. And there was a lot of trial and error that we had to go through. And now I'm just kind of, at a point where I realized, well, we're just going to try and find what works. And there's no set box, the same with everybody else is what I've realized is there's no set type of relationship. There's only you and your partner, and you guys make what works for you. It doesn't have to be understood by other people. It just needs to be understood by the two of you. I think that's beautiful.
He said, Because when we're thinking about relationship, a lot of a lot of people, including myself, there's there we bring into a relationship, some expectation, right? The expectation of how our partner should be how, you know, this relationship should
play out. And so there's a lot of, I guess, we will call it the limiting belief or, like living in a social construct, like men should be, like, most of the time, they're the one who's going out and the breadwinner, and the woman would be someone who's like staying home and doing all these house chore, right? We even though people don't talk about it, we don't speak about it. But still, there's that limiting belief about how we supposed to be
versus how we truly are. And I think another point that you brought up was really interesting for me is that looking at the same sex relationship, I think what's really interesting is as a woman, I know a lot of time I get really emotional, right? I cry, I laugh, and I base a lot of things on the emotional. So when you have same sex relationship, how do you how do you balance out between the two? Like when do you decide or has that show up? As a conflict?
Yes, yes, I my partner and I are both really really emotional. And wow, I don't think I really have been so in an I don't think I've ever been so emotionally expressive with anyone else except my partner. She kind of she gave me the space to express myself emotionally so she kind of opened Pandora's Box. My previous relationship I had I was dating somebody who was more you know, very feminine on the outside but very very masculine
on the inside. So I felt very, you know, I was kind of more of a girly one and more of the theory one my partner didn't really cry, whatever. And we didn't talk about anything. And that wasn't a healthy relationship at all, there was a lot of problems there. But the current my current relationship with my partner, Matt, now,
we're both very emotional. And we, before everything, we cried, we screamed, and it was it was so emotionally fiery, passionate, I guess in in like the worst sense, because there were a lot of very, very dramatic arguments, a lot of slamming doors and get out of the house and things like that. It has been really, really
difficult. And I realized, you know, being so emotionally charged, in a sense, and not understanding why and how and what triggers it is very, very dangerous, doesn't mean that you shouldn't be emotional, definitely be emotional, but understanding when is this a good emotion to have, when is it appropriate to react this way, that's what I think really changed in my relationship, because if I just kept going on, and if we just kept going on the way that we were, which was
just, you know, the emotion is pushed the button and explode, and then just yell at each other that doesn't go anywhere. But after, you know, after I went through coaching, after I was coached, and going through the process is realizing, oh, you know what, let's keep the finger off the button. Now, let's try to go through it a little bit calmer, and have a little bit more control in the relationship that really, really actually helped.
I love how you how you describe all these conflict when you have to kind of like to bumpy heads, right bumping against each other, of course, there's going to be a lot of like conflicts and arguments and fights that arises. And this is true, whether it's the same sex or the opposite sex, or just, you know,
in relationship in general. And I kind of wanted to dial back just a little bit because you brought up the fact that coaching had really helped creating that awareness and it has definitely helped you in the relationship aspect. So I kind of wanted to dial back a little bit so you're in Japan now and you're teaching English English teacher, and and you actually step into your own true identify
I identity. At what point did you realize that coaching was something that you wanted to go into what made you make that shift? Hey, there So returning to rub, what is your storytelling superpower that build trust, authority, and attract soulmate clients in your coaching business, storytelling in your coaching business can boost your conversion rates. In fact, every story you tell can make marketing your business quick, easy, and actually kind
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I think with a lot of coaches, there was a moment in time when this was this was it this was the only thing that you had left. And that was the feeling that I had a my relationship with my current partner had gotten to such a bad place that, you know, we were literally arguing every day. And we've gotten to a point where we had to get like intervention from our friends because it was
getting so bad. And there was also so emotionally we were both really exhausted both just having a lot of trouble being like we didn't know we loved each other. Yes, but somehow we were just not connecting. It was just everything we thought any conversation we had always led to an argument. And we were both having some problems and she was having also she was having problems at work. And right before the the pandemic started.
She had a breakdown, like an absolute breakdown, just tears and she was like, I can't leave the house. I'm so scared to get out of bed and it just made me realize I I have a part in this situation that she's going through. I'm not helping with being absolutely having no idea what I'm doing with my emotions, getting angry at her all the time. It's not helping stuff or not helping. And so I realized, you know, I can't change her. I
have to change myself. I want to help her but it's not help her it's helped me to help her in a weird way. And so Oh, that really got me to a point where I was looking for anything, basically, at this point to help me figure out what was my role? What could I do to make it better? I went, I had gone into therapy, they just gave me medicine. And I was like, a pill is not going to help me fix my relationship. And I had counseling. And that helped a
little bit. But it was not it was not getting me to that one point that I knew that I could get to, I was missing something. And I was talking to my counselor, and I told her, you know, this is good. It's like, I'm getting 30%. But what, what's the 70%? And she's like, Have you ever thought about coaching? And I was like, what's that? Like, Well, okay, check it out. And then I got on and I, I found coaching, and I was so obsessed with it immediately.
Because this felt like, you know, this was it, this was it was everything I needed. And so that's how I basically started and that's how, you know, the relationship blossomed.
I love it. And you definitely when I when I met you, you definitely at the, at the end of that relationship conflict journey, and you were actually going going on a high in the in the coaching space. So it was a good place for us to start working together. It was really just like, you made it so
easy. And and I think, you know, one of the things that you just talked about is, I hear a lot of people talk about, oh, I have relationship problems or relationship issue, the first thing that people think about or you you hear, you know, other people advice would be, oh, go see a therapist. Right. So I'm curious, I know the answer. But I'm curious, what would be the difference between a therapy versus coaching?
Well, therapy, really, I mean, we know the answer is coaches. But yeah, but therapy is really focusing on like the past and traumas. And yes, I had some issues with my, you know, with past and everything, and which relates to why I react the way they react and but I went to therapy, and they're talking about my past. And right now I'm like, I don't need to know why I'm this way I kind of, I need to know how I can change what's happening now in the future, because I want a
future with this person. I don't know how digging of the past was my father's, you know, my father's death, and my seat shame is really going to help right now the problem is now. And so that's I think the big difference in therapy, you know, the therapy did help in a lot of other aspects and dealing with, you know, my my self acceptance and things like that. But at that point, what I needed was
right now, my relationship. And so coaching really does help focus on right now in the present moment, and what where do you want to go in the future? How are we going to get you there? And I knew I wanted to make a future with this person. I just didn't know how I mean, it's like a blurry, you know, you go you look forward, and you know, there's a pathway somewhere, it's just foggy. It's really foggy, but you know, there's like a rainbow castle at the end of the road. You just
like get me there. That's kind of what therapy does, right? They kind of just blow the fog away. And here's the path. Let's go. Right. So
I think I think for for me, the way that I understand a relationship therapy and coaching is that there's different questions that's being asked, at different stage of our life for different reason, right? If I'm trying to understand my past, I'm trying to understand or heal all these trauma or tragedy and what you talked about acceptance, and perhaps, you know, in that sense, therapy can really be beneficial when I'm trying to understand why am I being this way, or trying to understand my
own behavior. So giving you a sense of why things are the way it is. And it kind of really goes into the therapy portion because a lot of these traumas we have to heal that first, before we start thinking about all right, I'm ready to take some action and here's my how to. So I think, you know, in a sense, it almost feels like almost sounds like coaching gave you more language to know your how to how to do the action, how to take your next step how to do
something better. And and what you what you talked about earlier is how your relationship is blossom. Can you tell us a little bit about how that is possible? And what exactly is a conscious love conscious love?
So I think when we get into relationships, we don't really Have an idea of what our ideal relationship is like. I mean, for me, and for a lot of my clients that I work with, they just go into the relationship because they're attracted to the person physically, emotionally. And they're like, yes, it's great. I see the fireworks, I feel the
fireworks. So let's, and that's kind of how it started with me in, in, in all my relationships, it was the fireworks, that, Oh, it's fun to be with you, I want to be with you kind of situation. And the problem is that you go in, and then you've got the honeymoon phase. And after you know, a couple of months, you start to see the person, that's who they really are. Because, you know, the honeymoon, the mask, and the honeymoon, the veil kind of
comes off after a while. And so I have this concept called the conscious loving, which is, you know, before you get into relationship, or even if you are in a relationship, and you've never been aware, you have, it's okay, you can start anytime, but going into relationship and understanding, what is it that you want from a relationship, because it's not just fireworks in that, bam, it's not going to
it doesn't last long. And I think that's a big in my mind, it's a lie that we've been taught ever since we're a kid, you know, live happily ever after? doesn't really work like that, in reality, you know? And so you go into a relationship? Or what is it that understanding what it is being aware of what it is that you want in relationship is super important.
Because then that will give you at least the language to speak about it with your partner and tell them you know, and to, to kind of clarify with each other. This is what I can give, what is it that you can give? This is what I'm able to negotiate this is what I can I'm able to negotiate with? This is what they see, these are my must haves. Is it okay? Like are you able to do this? And if not, then what can we do? Can we do
anything about it? Right? This will open up a lot of conversation, a lot of very deep conversation, a lot of very important conversations, right. And if you don't speak about this, if you don't have the language and you don't have the awareness, then you're just going through and the thing was what happened with me and my partner was I went into the relationship with the honeymoon phase, blah, blah, didn't know what I was going through. I didn't know I was what I wanted.
I just knew what she was doing was not what I wanted. And that was where I would like nitpick and nag and would nitpick a nap. But we didn't really know what it was that we wanted. So she would always ask me, What do you want? And I'm like, I don't know. But that's not it. That would be like a triggering
conversation. Right? But after you know, coaching, going through coaching and having a lot of because coaching is is it's a relationship that you build with yourself, understanding becoming very, very consciously aware of what is it that you want? What are your values? What are your triggers, what are the buttons that people can push, being
aware of that. And then learning the the language and the techniques to actually speak about it with someone else that kind of opened up the window to I kind of sat my partner down and was like, You know what I'm this is what I'm doing. I'm learning all these things. And here's what I've found out about myself through coaching with my with my coach, this is what I discovered in this session. And you know what, I realized that I
kind of need this. And I feel like that's why when you say this, this is how I take it and it triggers me. And I just need to know, is what you meant. And like that really opened up a lot of conversations. That's why I mean, like, that's what I mean by our relationship really blossom, because now she understands what I want, what I need, what I misinterpret, so we
can both clarify each other. And that has helped her as well learn because she's looking at me in the way I speak now in the way that I'm processing things. And she's like a little sponge aji sucking it all up. And so she's learning as well. So now we're able to have coffee. I mean, it's not perfect, we still do get into small arguments, but we went from like, you know, five arguments to like 20 minutes. It's really, really amazing, I think.
Yeah, and I also think that you know, having a relationship means that you have conversation, right? So if you can't even have like a, a smooth a decent conversation with each other, then you don't have a relationship. And perhaps that's what makes relationships so complicated. Because a lot of time people are at the end of that rainbow and it's not rainbow anymore. It's more like dogs don't have that. You don't
have that conversation. And that's usually it prompts people to say, Oh, maybe I ought to look into my relationship and what the problem is. And so I love what you just shared and I'm also interested, and I do want to kind of wrap up a little bit I know that you work with clients. So that's a someone
who's coming to you. And this is like their first time, even remotely, they knew something is going on in their relationship, something is not working out, what are some of the ways that you help them to like, understand what's going on in my relationship.
So actually, right now I'm doing I'm working on a worksheet, which plans out the seven levels of love. There's something I'm working on right now. And it's really helping people become aware of which level of love that they're at. So really quickly, just as an example, level one relationship, what level one level of love is basically like, you know, I just, I'm a victim, everything you do is wrong. And everything I do is wrong, and I don't know
what to do. So understanding where you are, understanding where you are in the relationship and choosing which level of really which level of love you want to go through, is what's really important. That's what I work on with my clients to help them.
Well, so what are the seven levels?
So the seventh level, the level one is that your victim mentality? So you're thinking, you know, everything you do is wrong. Level two, you're quite at a conflict area where you have to defend yourself because whatever they say is going to, you have to defend right, you have to attack them. Number three, level three would be more of like you have you're you're just settling,
right? You're You're rationalizing everything, and you're like trying to think of what I guess I guess this is why they're doing it, you rationalize. Level four is when you're like, Okay, no, everything's, I'll do everything for you. It's all good, right? And now phi is more like, you know, you're thinking of ways to help them benefit each other.
Once you move on to level six, and you're thinking of opportunities, any kind of ways to like, any kind of way to grow, and you're just looking for, you know, growth, basically, that's that one. And then seven is just, you know, it's all good. It's all bliss. So that's really quick, like a really quick run through I'm working on a worksheet right now. And I'm eventually going to make it into a workshop. So yeah,
sounds exciting. And so that's a that's a I'm someone who's listening right now. And I know this is something that could really help me because I have no idea what makes my relationship status so complicated. So how do I get a copy of your worksheets?
Oh, definitely go on to my website at WWW dot Chau coaching ch O W. Chow coaching.com. Or you can find me on Instagram. So Instagram is the same Ciao underscore coaching. Find me there and just drop me an email and I'll send you the Thank you. Yeah, I'll send you the the worksheet.
Awesome. Yeah. Did I did I spell your website? Right?
Yes, but I think there's a www in there.
I think most of the browser, so like totally marketing, marketing. 101 You don't need me, ladies and gentlemen, you don't need the www in most of the browser where website address anymore, you can just simply tell people, ciao coaching.com and that will just take people straight to this child. coaching.com Very rarely, very rarely do I see, you need to put in the www
anymore. All right, so I learn everything I get on a call with you.
But again, you can find Jen at Jennifer dot child that 50 I have a question about that. 50 I'm sure the 50th Jennifer. And then you can also find her on Instagram, and just go follow her. She creates a lot of very, very interesting reel. I think I caught one earlier this morning. And it was something about her her birthplace or where she was where she grew up. So definitely
check her out on Instagram. And again, you can find her, send her an email and grab that worksheet from her so that you can become more aware of your own relationship. So that it's not so complicated anymore.
Exactly. It doesn't need to be complicated, guys. It doesn't it really doesn't.
Any any last word of advice for our listeners.
Take a deep breath and just take it a step at a time and you are not alone. I think that was one of the biggest thing that I really wish someone had told me. What you're going through the complicated the comp complexities of everything. It's you're not alone. There's a way to fix it. Get in touch with me.
Yeah. And and I love the fact that you're helping the LGBTQ plus community because I feel that there's a lot of things that's going on right now in the world, against the LGBTQ plus community. There's a still a lot of debate that's going on out there even though we don't cover on This show, but there's people who need people. And I think you are onto a really big mission of helping the community and reaching out to more people so that they don't have to go through this alone.
Thank you. Yeah, you aren't alone. You really aren't. So I just hope everybody knows that.
So again, you can find her Facebook and Instagram, as well as her website, child
coaching.com. And I would see you in the backstage backstage and I'll close up through the show the hire, I want to invite you to come and find me in our community on Facebook, after visibility and confidence now, this is a community of heart center woman coaches, who are looking to grow their coaching business by creating engaging, authentic, visible content was storytelling for their business to get more leads and attract more clients. I will see you at my next tea party. I now