Hey there, welcome to my podcast. This is a podcast where I bring you inspirational stories on business and mindset to help you courageously and confidently achieve success beyond anything that you dream possible. I'm your host, Michelle clay. I'm a visibility confidence coach, and the founder of LOA life coaching, that just say that I know a few things about overcoming seemingly impossible obstacles in life and in
business. My goal is to get you out there in your world so that you can start playing small. Welcome to the show. Hey, today, we have a super, super highly charged and highly important topic that I believe every single one of us, especially new coaches should know about. And it is a topic that kind of really set me back in the old days where I noticed that I could be so amazing and wonderful in the beginning of
the call. And then when I get to the end of my discovery calls, suddenly that voice popping and show up. I don't know if this client is going to sign up with me what if he or she doesn't like my product? Whatever he or she doesn't want to work with me? What do I do? And this is a topic that you know, many of my coaches, my friend my community are struggling with. And so which is why I wanted to make sure that I bring it to you and invite amazing speaker to talk about this topic. So today
joining me I have MS. Kendra Perry, who is a former multi multiple six figure functional health coach turning into online business strategist for health and wellness coaches and practitioners, she is on a mission to stop health coaches from being broke. By helping them building blooming six figure business that they love. She has helped hundreds of coaches grow their practice, attract consistent clients and blowing up their bank account.
Should I like that sound. She is the creator of the Hulk help coach accelerator which turns scare scatter and subconscious coaches into confident focus and high performing health entrepreneur. So I don't want to take up more space. And hi, because this is a topic I'm really passionate about. And I wanted to make sure that you know how to do it as well so that you can close more sales and get more clients. Without further ado, please join me with a warm welcome. Can Dr. Perry?
Hello. Have you ever had that experience where like you're on podcasts? And I reading your bio? Who is that person I
know. I'm like, I don't know who this girl is.
But you had, like when I reach out to you, I went to your website and you had a beautiful online presence. And one of the things that you know I was really drawn to you attracted to you was the fact that you talked about the Hi, how do you come back being more more of a more effective sales calm. And I remember that first conversation that we had you talk a lot about how to do that, do that sales call towards the end, it was one of the common struggle that a lot of my community members they're
experiencing. So that before we get to that topic, I was hoping that you can tell us a little bit about how you got into the coaching business.
Yeah, so I like to think that I started my business sort of by accident, I started out in I believe was 2014. And I pursued health coaching mostly because I was having my own health issues at the time. I kind of started having some issues in my early 20s that in my late 20s After I'd had a knee surgery after I had a reconstructive knee surgery, my whole health just like literally lost it overnight. It was crazy. It was like one night it was
normal. It went for like a 10k run and the next day woke up and I had chronic fatigue chronic insomnia and I was just like a total mess. And I ended up going on for about seven years. And so at the time, I was working a career in forestry, which, you know, I was fighting wildfires. I was planting trees. I was designing cut blocks for logging operations. I was doing this very physical job and so when I injured my knee, it was a huge blow to my career at the time, but also to the fact that I'm
like a big skier. And at that point I was also trying to be a professional skier so it was a bit of a maybe an identity crisis, which is probably what sort of led to the the health crash but I ended up on unemployment for over a year and a half just because I couldn't work couldn't ski and I just didn't know what to do with myself and I live in a various Small town I'm in British Columbia, my town is about 10,000 people, not a lot of career opportunity for someone with the skill set that I had.
And I'm not a city girl. And I didn't want to move to a city. So I just didn't really know what I was going to do, because I kind of felt like I couldn't do this physical job anymore with kind of what was happening in my body. And I was listening to a podcast one day and this guy was talking about his health certification program. And I was like, okay, cool. I could like learn how to heal myself. And I could maybe this could be like a
business or something. And so I took that course, kind of started this online business with like, no experience, no online biz didn't he barely knew how to turn on a computer just sort of was like, I'm just gonna figure this out, because I have no backup plan. And so that's what I did. And kind of a lot of like trial and error. I grew that business from 2014 to 2019. And then in 2019, I was feeling kind of a little burnt out with the health coaching, I really wanted to do something
different. And, you know, I was like, obsessing over my client's health, my own personal health. And I think I was just I needed a, I needed a break. And I also realized that I'm like, I really love strategy and tech, and like, the whole business side of things. So I started helping health coaches build their business, and then I actually hired my own health coach, who ended up kind of helping me go the rest of the way with my health.
It sounds we only took like, seven minutes is so convent's, right? Sure, it was not an easy process to go through that five years trying to figure it out. And just from the fact that you decided to, you know, what, this might be a career different path. And I'm just trying it out, and I will figure it out. And I think, you know, what I heard is trying to
figure things out. And this is something that, you know, a lot of my community member, that's what they're struggling with, it's trying to figure things out. And so I'm wondering, you know, what was it like for you to try and figure it out? What, what was the most challenging part for you in that figuring out period?
You know, I think a lot of it was the tech, honestly, like, the tech is really difficult. And, you know, this was 2014. So there's a lot of like, nice platforms, like things are a lot more user friendly these days, like, I remember trying to figure out like landing pages back, you know, eight years ago, and it's just like, it was so clunky. And it was so much more technical. So I got really stuck in the
tech. And also just like, just literally having no idea like thinking that I could just post on Facebook, say hey, I'm a health coach, I can help you and that people would come. And what I ended up getting was just a lot of nothing. And also just a lot of rejection, and a lot of mindset stuff getting triggered, which I think people are very unaware of when they start a business, they're like, oh, I'll just start this business. And all of a sudden, they're like, Oh, I feel really bad. Like, I
don't feel good. I'm like, getting triggered all the time. And so you know, it was a big journey of not taking it so personally, and learning how to not tie my insight entire self worth into the business.
So So you know, I'm sure you had did you have on your website? Did you I know a lot of people do. And including myself. When I first had my website, it was my picture. And then there's a book a call with me. And like you said, you know, there's a lot of noise that I'm creating, I'm posting them, I'm sharing, I'm marketing, marketing. And then there's no no phone call. Or finally, when someone actually booked the call, I will be doing a
discovery call. But I noticed in my in my first two years, that every time I go to that discovery call, it's great and an amazing, you know, I can have like, a fabulous first 20 minutes and 30 minutes and client experiences that transformation. But then I got to talk about my package. Yeah. What's it like for you?
You know, I think what I did on those early, you know, sales calls was not selling at all, it was more just like be giving them free information and hoping that they would just like be like, on their own terms be like, Oh, by the way, I want to buy your
thing, right? Because yeah, there is this, you know, when you're in the first half of the sales call when maybe you're like talking and you're like the person's kind of vibing with you, but then that point where you'd have to actually like make the pitch like that feels really sticky. And people have a lot of fear and discomfort around that.
And typically I mean, I would just avoid it altogether and be like okay, well I hope to talk to you soon like let me know just like peace out because it just it was so uncomfortable. Right like it's just and it's not really a skill that we learned something we were taught in like high school right?
Yeah. I love I love how you describe it. Yeah. Okay, peace out. When you again we hear from them again. Right? Yeah, exactly. So how do we how do we actually so I know we were going to talk about the health aspects of it, but that's just dialed in a little bit more on the on the wealthy aspects of it. So how do I close it? Like, what is what is your tip on? How do I close it? Yeah, so
the the biggest way like, so in terms of closing, I want to take like a few steps back, because there's a few things that need to happen first before you will even get close to closing a call. And it actually really starts with how you actually market that call. And this was a big disconnect that I was having on these calls, because I was saying, hey, come get a free health history, come have a free consult, have a free coaching call. And the intention, I was saying is like I'm giving you
free information. And what they thought they were getting was free information. So they come on the call, I give them all the things they feel really excited. But then when I pitched the program, it's no. And there can be a huge disconnect there, right? Because if you are marketing this call as a free call to come pick your brain, and then you were offering something paid. It doesn't
match, right? And that's where people can be like, really like, Oh, I didn't like oh, I didn't know that this was what this is about. So if you're going to close, it starts with getting the right people on the call. Because there are certain people who will come on a call who have will never have any intention of buying. They're just there to pick your brain. But that's not what that call is for. Right. And it depends like what people
learn. Like, I don't know, if people go to any business training their certification program, like I know, in the health coaching certification that I did, they said, offer a free health history. And then that'll like show them everything that's wrong, and then they'll want your program. But that never worked. And I could never figure out why. Right? And it's because of that, because they think like, oh, sweet, like, This is so nice of
them. What a generous charity, like, I'll come like get this free information, and then I'll be good. And then when you're like, Oh, by my program, they're like, Yeah, that's not why I came here. So the only purpose of a sales call is to determine like, are they fit for what you do? And is the program going to
work for them? Right. And so you have to be really clear about that you're not offering a free call a free concert, you're saying hey, I have this free discovery session or strategy, call it whatever you're calling it, so that you can learn if my you know, anxiety, fixed method or my Hashimotos Solution Program are fit for you. And so you have to make that really
clear. And that way, like the only people who are coming on the call are people who are actually interested in learning is your program right for them. So you know, it really does start there, you want to make sure you're getting the right people on the call. And that starts with like being really transparent about what the call is actually for. Right? So it starts there. And then in terms of like, how do you actually close? I love how we're just like jumping to the end here.
But what I teach my students is like, it's called permission based selling, right? We're always looking for these various permission points throughout the call. And when you get permission from someone, suddenly it doesn't feel so scary. Because they've said Yes, right? If someone gives you permission to pitch that's going to help like all those nerves go
away, right? And so, you know, at the point in the sales call, where you've determined like, Okay, this is someone I can help, I can tell that they're probably committed, I can tell if they're a good fit for me, great. Ask permission, just say, hey, Jane, everything you've told me, I actually think you'd be a really good fit for my XYZ
program. Do you want to learn a little bit more about how I help people go from, you know, anxiety to calm or from, you know, an extra 15 pounds to fitting in their skinny jeans, or whatever it is? And if they say yes, they have given you
permission to sell to them. And that suddenly doesn't feel so icky anymore, you know, so I think that's the biggest sticking point with sales as people are like, I don't want to feel pushy, like, I don't want to feel gross, I don't want to you know, be that door to door salesperson. Like no one wants to be that dude, right? Or chick who's like trying to sell like the broken thing to an elderly person, like, no one wants to be
that person, right? But you're, you're asking them like, hey, like, do you want me to tell you more about this? And then they given you permission, and that should come? You're nervous. You're like, Okay, so now I can talk about my program. Right?
I think that's a very interesting perspective, because I don't think a lot of coaches have that had that in mind, especially walking to a discovery call. We're trained to, oh, it's a discovery call. So provide the value and then at the end, you want them to sell them your package, but none of us you know, because we as coaches, we asked permission to coach someone to work with your
client all the time. But so I think that mindset shift of, I just asked me to go get permission, is it okay for me to share your price with with your what I do and my price? And people are gonna say yes or no. And if it's a no, okay, that's okay. And you just move on. So it's a it's a very interesting and new perspective, at least, you know, I never thought about that. I typically just do, here's my package, read it, go through it, and then we'll jump on the call if this isn't
listed. Yeah. So yeah, and
I think too, like it's so easy to just want to like talk about the program kind of like a robot, you know, like, this is my program like it does this and this and this. But you know, really, when I mean, this is a huge sales call tip, but like, you really shouldn't be talking more than 25% of the call, right? Like the purpose of the call, again, is not to show them how smart you where you don't need to prove yourself, you already proven yourself.
Like if they're signing up for a call with you, like they already think you're awesome, right? So you don't need to prove yourself. So you can take the pressure off, you're not trying to prove how smart you are. But really what you're doing, because you mentioned there, like provide the value and then sell the thing. But the value isn't in like consulting or giving information, the value is in the holding of the space for the person and helping them feel seen and heard and understood.
Like that is truly what it's about, like you really just want to listen to them. And that's how you properly qualify person, like make sure like, are they the right fit? Do our energies align? Like are they committed all of that, but if you've been listening to them, they're gonna tell you where they're stuck, right? So if I use an example from my business, people might be like, you know, like, I can't figure out my niche. I'm really like, keep going back and forth. I'm really stuck on this. I'm
really like, scared to sell. And yeah, I have no idea what to do on social media. So instead of like just giving them this whole outlet on my program, the first thing I can say is okay, and you know, so this is my program, its health coach accelerator, it helps health coaches go from barely making ends meet to a six figure business. Do you know much about health coach accelerator? Or do you want me to go into the details? Because potentially, they're like your
biggest fan, right? And they've like binge your entire sales pitch and like, they know everything, and you might not even really need to talk about it. They might be like, Oh, no, I know, totally, it does this. And you know, there's this coaching support. And there's this lesson and you know, they might already know, but they might say no, tell me about it.
And then you can customize how you explain the program to what they just said to be like, Okay, so in module two, this is where we go into niching and messaging, and you mentioned that you're really stuck on your niche, and that you can't figure it out. And this is actually where we will make sure that you choose a niche that is both profitable and aligned. Right. And oh, you know, module six is where we talk about social media. So remember how you said that you have no idea what to do
on social media? Well, we actually show you how to set up your accounts, we show you the strategy, and we show you how to create content that sells right. So that's how they feel like it's just for them. And it's not just like this generic overview of the program, right? Because you're listening to them about what they really need help with. And then you're showing them where in your program actually supports that pain point.
Yeah. And I think nowadays, consumers are actually getting very smart. Like, they're, we're all getting very smart, because we were getting so much information overload. And we're consuming and reading all these different types of strategy and marketing. So we already have an idea before going into a call. So it's really just about engaging them with with their energy. So we're talking a lot about the doing doing doing, how to do the six figure how to how to get there.
And I know one of your your specialty area is the healthy, how do we how do we maintain? How do we create that balance between wealthy and healthy? Yeah,
well, you know, I think it's people get so my audience specifically, always are really scared that they're going to lose their health in the building of a business, right? They're like, well, I have all these health problems. And I get it, I built a business in the depths of a chronic illness. So I get it, right. But I think it's about you have to honor your body. And you have to have tools to help yourself, like not only stay on track, but
like honor your energy. So as an example, I have this, like, you probably can't see it, it's like behind me, I have this weird little Ultra bored. I do energy clearing, like a little energy clearing ceremony at the end of every day, because I tend to take on people's energy, right? Like, I don't want to wake up in the middle of the night, and be stressing about one of my students and like a problem that they're having, like in our
Facebook group, right. And I think for you know, anyone who's a coach, like we care deeply about our people, and it's really easy to just take it all on and feel make it feel like it's our responsibility, right? So I think what's really important is, you know, you don't have to do the weird woowoo stuff that I do, but maybe there's something like maybe it's like, you go for a walk, you go outside, you breathe fresh air, maybe you do meditation, maybe you just deep
breathe. And what has really served me is rituals, right? Having these various rituals that I do throughout the day, in the morning, and at the end of work. That just kind of helped me keep, like my work in the office, right? So little rituals like that. I do a lot of breath work. I'm actually a certified breathwork facilitator and I do with my students, but we all know that stuff comes up throughout the day, right? We get overwhelmed. We get impostor
syndrome. We see another coach online who's crushing it, we feel jealousy, right? We start comparing ourselves like this stuff is all just kind of part of the journey, right? And so I go through that stuff too. And when I do, it's like, I will go sit down and do just like a 10 minute like breath work session to just get back on my body.
Because truly, when we're stressed out, we're dealing with all the mindset stuff, it's because we are in our head, and we're not present and in our bodies, and once we get back into our bodies, everything feels a little bit better. And it can be as simple as doing, I do breath work, but people can journal meditate, go outside, do a little bit of exercise, but just, you know, it's about being consciously aware of when you're feeling these things, and not
pushing it down. Because I think that's where it can start to bubble up, and you feel the stress and the overwhelm. And for me, personally, that will turn me into like, workaholic you know, if I'm, like super overwhelmed, and like all these things, it actually will make me work more. And I'll just work like a 12 hour day with no break, which is not healthy. So you know, I have to be I have to create boundaries for myself, right?
i So it's interesting, because I noticed you're on myself to a lot of time. My way of resetting is to actually I just drop everything and just do a 45 minutes like cardio workout. I mean, my body I'm not in my mind. I'm not in my head. And the other thing that I love to do is just binge watch whole bunch of Netflix.
I love it. I love it. Well, I like to binge watch like reality dating shows I like can't stop watching Love Island. It's embarrassing.
There's, there's a new one that's, that's Albia was What's it? What's it called? Love it blindsided.
Oh, yeah, love is blind love is also the ultimatum, if you want like a total dumpster fire of a show like it is very good.
A lot of times I get inspiration from just binge watching the Netflix.
Well, whatever it does, and I mean, that's a method of self care, too. Right. And I think it's really important. And, you know, I always tell my students because a lot of them do have their own health issues and stuff. And I'm like, Well, you know, in my opinion, like running a business is more conducive to health than going to a corporate job. Like I think about my forestry job.
seven to five Monday to Friday, like out tramping around the woods falling on my face getting rained on getting snowed on, like, you know, is exhausting. And you know, living your life on someone else's schedule by someone else's rules, like I mean, in my opinion, like that is not conducive to health for you know, people who maybe don't
fit into that mold, right? So at least you can make your own hours you know, if you are like, I have my energy in the morning, and then the afternoon I'm tired then just, you know, work for your four hours in the morning and be done. And take a nap. watch Netflix crush the ultimatum.
Kendra, how do you work with clients? Like tell me more about your program? And what's what are you offering?
Sure, yeah, so my main program is health coach accelerator. It is a course and group mentorship program. And within that program, we help mostly newbie health coaches, wellness coaches, life coaches, Phillip fitness coaches, kind of any coach and like wellness, personal development space. And we really help them get their really strong business foundation, because I find that a lot of people come to me, they're kind of reaching for all
these crazy strategies. But it's like we don't even have like the niche dialed in, or the messaging or the communication. So we really focus on niching messaging, communication, building the program pricing properly. And then, you know, making sales through essentially sales calls using social media and intentional collaborations.
And so I think one thing that caught my attention was the pricing. Like, what have you noticed is the biggest challenge when it comes to pricing book coaches?
Yeah, I think money is like a whole, you know, is this whole, it's like the elephant in the room, right? I find most coaches are under under charging. And that makes sense. And if you're under charging, it's not your fault. Like you just have nothing to follow, right? Like, you're just you're like, I'm just supposed to decide like what to charge.
And typically, you know, for a lot of coaches, especially in the wellness field, what they've seen is this trade time for money sort of model like, you know, you go see a naturopathic doctor, acupuncturist massage therapist. And so usually a lot of the schools to will teach you to actually, like do that business model. So there's that. And unfortunately, like that might make sense for a licensed health professional whose services can get written off for extended health benefits, right?
Like, that's, you know, they can get busy during that model. But like, if you don't have that, and you're, you know, trying to market online, like you actually don't have enough time to make money, because you need like, a few days a week to market your business and to do all the other things in your business. You can't just be working with
clients all the time. So I find a lot of them are, you know, charging this hourly rate that typically when all of a sudden done is minimum wage, maybe you know, and so that's a big issue. The other thing that I see a lot of is pricing based on competition, right like looking to see what other people are charging But I think pricing is very, it's very individual. And it's very, it should be very intentional, right? It should be based off of like what you need,
right? Like, what are your monthly expenses for personal business? And what do you want? Right? Like, maybe you want to get a massage every two weeks, right? You got to put that in, like, this is your business, your lifestyle, right? Maybe you want to be able to take a vacation every three months, or
whatever it is. So you actually have to, if you want to price properly, you have to look at your expenses and your needs, and even things like taxes and savings and all of that and figure out like what do you need to make every month to pay your bills, but also like lead the lifestyle that you want to lead? Right? And that's what your pricing has to be based off? And
no one is doing that? Usually it's based on competition, or it's just like, I pulled this number out of my butt, and I'm going with it, right?
Yeah, yeah. And then I don't really a lot of time they under charge. Yeah, there's margin, there's hourly rate. And so do you keep chasing from one client to another? Or if you were to design your program, and you're the boss, you basically have you do you do you do you and your program should be designed so that you have some freedom and time to do all these other things that you love. And I think that health insurance is something that people don't keep in the back of
their mind. So when they strike out their own business, they don't have health healthcare insurance anymore. So you got to factor that in into your budget as well.
Yeah, exactly. Because if we're talking about staying healthy as you like, build your wealth, like Yeah, like you like I pay for my own extended health benefits. And, you know, because I like to go get massages every week.
I've been wanting a massage, like, I am definitely gonna do it this weekend. I've been thinking about it for quite some.
So good, so good.
Any last minute last words that you have for our, our audience today?
Yeah, I do have one last sales tip on the conversation of sales calls. So this is this is a huge, this is like a very simple, it's not easy, but it's very simple shift that you can make that could literally like triple your sales, and that is detached from the outcome. Right? Because I think we want to make the sales like we're desperate or like, we need the money, we need to make the sale, but like that energy is felt by the client on the
other line. And they may not know what they're feeling, but they feel that something is off, right. And that can also lead you to signing a client who isn't the right fit. So detachment work is actually a really big piece of like learning how to master sales, where you just detach from the outcome, you show up to serve, and you're there to find the best outcome for them, even if it's not working for you or with you. And whatever the outcome is, like you're at peace with
it. And that sort of detachment work is huge. And just that alone, I've seen people like have huge improvements in their close rates, just from the ability to just kind of step back and just kind of like not be so attached to the outcome.
Yeah, I am your living testimonial on that. Because when I started to detach, I'm like, You know what, I'm just gonna hop on the call doobie. And I'm gonna go through the discovery call not attached to the outcome. And like, like you said, a really, really helped tremendously, double, triple. Just having that detachment from it. Yeah,
it's like, so simple, not easy, you know, especially if you're like, I'm broke. But you know, it's a very simple shift. And so I think like detachment work is something that will always serve us and sales for sure.
Yeah, I think at that moment, when I had that ship, it was like, You know what, fuck it. I'm just gonna show up and just do this. Yeah.
Totally, totally.
Hey, Kendra, I know you have a summit coming up. Can you tell tell us more about the summit?
Yeah, so I'm running a free online virtual summit from June 13 to June 17. It's for health and wellness coaches, or, you know, anyone in health and wellness, personal
development space. And the purpose is to help you from you know, going from inconsistent clients barely making ends meet to, you know, a thriving six figure business and we are going to allow you to kind of pull on all the expertise of 20 I think we have 22 different speakers and experts talking on everything from tick tock to manifestation to pleasure and desire in your business to pricing, packaging, signature programs, all of the things. It's totally free. And yeah,
and here's the website and I will make sure to include this in the in the comment below and in the chat box to make sure that everyone had an opportunity to go and signed up. I wanted to participate so bad.
I know I would have loved to have you it would have been so great.
But I got like, you know we were talking about how to balance that health. And I think it's so important to just give yourself permission You know what, I have a lot of things on my plate. And I'm going to sit out on this
one. Yeah, fair enough. You gotta gotta honor your you know what your body needs, right?
And I am so looking forward just to be part of that summit and just come in and you know, show up and just hear all these amazing speakers and what they share in that summit.
Yeah, it's gonna be fun. And we're gonna keep presentations short, so you will be able to watch all of them. Because I find a lot of summits. They're like these 90 minute presentations, and then you have like, four to watch in a day. But we're trying to keep them 30 minutes unless everyone's time.
That would be perfect. Oh, my Oh, ready to go? Yeah. So what can go where can people
find you? Yeah, so the best place to find me is on Instagram handle is at Canterbury, Inc. I also have a podcast. It's called the wealthy coach podcast where we jam out about business strategy, check mindset, sometimes some woowoo weird things, all kinds of stuff on there. And my website is Kendra Perry dotnet.
Yeah, I will have all the links in the Episode Notes and so that people can become and find you. And check out all the good stuff, because that's how I found you. I found your website and I was just very attracted to it.
Awesome. Well, thank you for having me.
Thank you so much for coming. And good luck with that with the summit. I can't wait to get it going. It'll be great. I'll talk to you in a minute. put you to the backstage. Sounds good. All right. Hey, beautiful. Thanks for listening. Ever feel like you are out in the battle by yourself in this world? I know I did. If you found values from this podcast and you are a woman coach who is ready to launch your coaching career and looking for strategies to guessing get
her and get higher. I want to invite you to check out additional resources in launching your coaching business by visiting my website at Elevate life coaching.org This show is made possible by listeners like you. I would love for you to support me by subscribing to the podcast on your favorite platform. And don't forget to give me a thumbs up and a heartfelt review. See you in my next Tea Party. Bye now.