00:00:00
Hey. Hey. Welcome back. Today we're going to be talking all things anxiety. We're going to be covering what to do if you have anxiety, what to do when you're dealing with a partner in a relationship with anxiety, and even how to work with our kids and notice anxiety in them and coping skills and what to do about that.
00:00:19
I know we cover a lot of normal health topics and this is a more of a mental health top thick, but I will say that your mental health affects your physical health. Anxiety and high levels of anxiety have been linked to heart disorders, obesity, chronic pain, high blood pressure, a higher chance of stroke, stomach ulcers and so many other problems. So your mental health does affect your physical health, hands down, no doubt about it. So if you are someone who sometimes struggles with anxiety and we're even going to talk today about if it's minor or if it's major and kind of to be aware of that, but if you're someone who does have anxiety sometimes. This is going to be a great episode that is going to help you get better at recognizing it and develop some coping skills.
00:01:11
I've been very open about the fact that I have struggled with anxiety before. I do pretty regularly. I don't obviously have anxiety disorder, but many people do have anxiety. Those levels just vary based on what we have going on and that is all normal. Sometimes it's only a little bit and sometimes it's a lot.
00:01:29
But the more tools and more coping skills and more ways we can be aware and have in our tool belt for when we do hit a moment or a phase or extended stage where we feel anxious, the better. Off. We're going to be at getting to the other side and moving out of feeling that anxious anxiety situation and just enjoying our life and really having a better quality of life. So that's what we're going to talk to Dr. Caroline Rubenstein today.
00:02:00
Dr. Rubenstein is a licensed psychologist in private practice in Florida specializing in anxiety, burnout and perfectionism. She particularly enjoys helping anxious overachievers experience great ease by finding worth in being and not just doing. She created Perfectly Human, a new online course for anyone struggling with perfectionism, self criticism and procrastination. Her course also provides a strong foundation for skills for those looking to build more resilience presence and enjoyment in their lives.
00:02:31
You guys are going to love her. She's going to be super clear about anxiety today as clearly this is her main squeeze and she is an excellent communicator on it. I want to give a little shout out to Julia Podlove. This podcast has changed the way I think about all things wellness. Thanks Andrea for breaking things down and championing mamas and women without being disparaging.
00:02:54
As a wellness professional myself, it's important to keep learning and I just love learning from you. Thank you. Keep doing your thing and inspiring the masses? No. Thank you so much, Julia, for the review.
00:03:05
And if you find this episode or any of my episodes helpful, please don't forget to write a review. Let me know what you learned, what you liked, and even what you didn't like. I'm all ears for all the things, so don't forget to leave that review or follow along so you don't miss any of my episodes. I think on Apple it is now Follow and on Spotify and some other Ones it is subscribe so you can go to the top right corner, click the three buttons and make sure that you're following so you don't miss any episodes and they are automatically downloaded to your phone. Now, as we talk about anxiety today, and I mentioned, it can create stomach ulcers and just even gut health problems and some other things.
00:03:45
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00:04:03
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00:04:19
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00:05:19
All right, let's get into today's episode, breaking Down Anxiety. How to recognize it, how to cope with it, and how to deal with others who have it. My name is Andrea Allen , and I am a mother of four girls under seven, a wifey to a mountain man, a personal trainer and a nutrition coach. I love all things women's health and fitness, but let's face it, the fitness industry is complicated and it's not built for the everyday mom. There's so much conflicting information and you're busy and you don't have time to figure it out.
00:05:47
I hate feeling confused and overwhelmed, so I have made it my mission to simplify health and fitness while creating a welcoming, realistic, and empowering home for like minded women. I'm happy you're here and I hope you stay a while.
00:06:04
Carolyn, I'm super excited to have you on today. Thank you so much for taking the time to be here. Thank you for having me. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about your background and how you even got into this field. I fell in love my first course in college with psychology.
00:06:21
I just thought it was the most fascinating, learning about the human emotions and all of that and understanding myself better. I fell in love and fell deeper in love every single course. At the same time. I was actually working. I thought I was going to become a pediatrician, so I was working in the hospital.
00:06:40
And what I realized by doing that was I was in the cancer department, and I saw that while I wasn't there to provide medical support, I was providing huge support by being there as just a support person and talking and the mental side of things. And so I saw firsthand the power that we can have when we focus on the emotions, we can have just as much power. And so it really ignited for me, this passion, and I didn't stop. So I went to college and grad school and all the training and all the things, and it still hasn't stopped. I'm still in love with it.
00:07:17
I'm just passionate about human emotions, understanding them and helping others to understand, navigate, and figure out ways to make it so that their emotions are next to them in life and not kind of in the driver's seat of life. So it's just been a passion. And so got my PhD. I'm in private practice, so I see clients every day, full time. So I'm in the trenches, which is awesome because I'm seeing firsthand, what are the issues, what is going on?
00:07:50
And I love that because my other passion is education. And so that's where I found the online kind of world and being able to provide education to others about the topics that I'm so passionate about. So it kind of fits perfectly since I am tight on time with having a practice and wanting to be also educating, that the social arena kind of fit in and tied so nicely. So I love those, too. And then I'm a mom of two.
00:08:22
Very amazing and wild and deeply feeling children best as possible here. We have some deeply feeling children around here as well. And every time my husband's like, oh, they take after their mother. Yes, mine too. I have a nine year old and a five year old, so we're feeling all the feelings in my house.
00:08:45
And, yeah, I'm passionate about it. I love talking to other moms and other people who are owning and wanting to navigate emotions and wanting to help others to do it. It just lights me up. I love it because it can be the study of one and the study of many, and then you take the effort to then teach, you know what I mean, to educate us. Like, I love your instagram.
00:09:09
I can get lost on there just looking at information, because everybody either has experienced anxiety themselves, whether it's rarely several times a week, every day, or they deal with someone else who does. You're going to have interactions, someone in your family, a loved one, a friend, or yourself. So the more we can learn about it and the better we can recognize it, have coping skills, and just see how to deal with it, better is a little bit better. Because as we were talking about before we started, I said we're of the generation where, when I was a kid, there was no, like, you have anxiety. That wasn't a thing.
00:09:46
It was like, oh, you're sad. Like, anxiety is just a small thing, and then it's gone. It wasn't real. And as an adult, we now are getting better at recognizing it, which is going to make us all more equipped in dealing with our kids and our spouses. And the more we know, the better.
00:10:03
Absolutely. And it's so true as a kid, you're nervous about a test. Oh, let's talk about the test, not about the nervousness. Right. Or that part.
00:10:12
It's always been kind of focusing externally rather than what's going on inside of you. And so I think that that's where the major shift has come, where we're actually talking about the nervousness, the worry part now, and not just outside and. Recognizing that as a standalone, you know what I mean, on itself. So let's talk about that. Let's first start super simple.
00:10:34
What is anxiety? How do we recognize it in our lives or in other people's lives? Physically or mentally? Yeah, so anxiety, super simple usually is broken down and seen as really the worry, the anticipation of something in the future going wrong or going negatively. And it can present in ourselves and others, mentally and physically, just as you said, for some people, it's only mental.
00:11:00
For some, it's only physical. Most of us, it's both. It's a little bit of all mentally, you see it like racing thoughts, other words. Other things would be like, what if thoughts, which we could go down a whole rabbit hole of what if this happens? What if that?
00:11:16
What if. You go down this hole of imagined scenarios and what ifs? And so the catastrophizing the worst case scenario that happens a lot with flight anxiety, for example, and traveling, and then the physical all the Icky symptoms that I think we know about, especially the stomach. Stomach loves to get involved with anxiety. And mess things up.
00:11:40
Our GI system headaches are common also just a lot of tension in our body. And I think most of us tend to have different areas where we feel it. So it's really good personally to get to know where your tell is. So for me, it's my neck. When my neck is starting to hurt, I know that there's anxiety brewing and it's a good kind of red flag to look in and see like, all right, what's going on here?
00:12:05
So just figuring out what those little red flags are or those little indicator signs are for you. What about different levels of anxiety? Does that matter as well? Because as we talk about anxiety, I do feel like it can be a buzword, like other things where everyone's like, oh, I have anxiety. But we also know there's different levels.
00:12:22
So what's a normal level of anxiety that we experience? When does it become a little too much and when should we maybe seek help? As we talk about it more, it's beneficial, but at the same time, sometimes we're downplaying it for people who it's very serious. I love that you said that because I think that's a huge thing that's often not talked about. And it's a hard thing because we normalize anxiety a lot as something that all of us really do deal with.
00:12:48
But the level at which we deal with it is what's important to differentiate, because you're right, most of us will have anxiety randomly throughout the day, just little bursts and moments, general things that really don't interfere with our functioning or who we are, what we love, things like that. Once things happen where you start to notice your functioning begin to shift, you're not doing the things that you normally would do, your social life is impacted, the way that you parent is impacted, or you're not able to do the things that you would want to do. Once anxiety starts to interfere with functioning, that's when it's getting to a point where it's no longer just normal anxiety. It's something that you really want to talk to a professional about because it starts to eat into other areas of your life and become much more than just thoughts here and there. And so you really want to make sure you're looking at, is this impacting clinically?
00:13:54
That's what we tend to look at. Is this impacting someone's function? Because if someone has a ton of anxiety and they're like, I function amazing like this and I don't want to change, then there's nothing really to change, right? But if someone has a lot of anxiety and their life is becoming smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller because of the way it's impacting them, then something needs to change. So really looking at if things are shifting in your life that you notice and reaching out for that support, what.
00:14:24
Are some tiny examples? Because I know some people listening might go, well, like what shifting because they might be so immune to it. You know what I mean? Not even recognizing it. What are some things that might shift?
00:14:35
Like I know we said socially, maybe you're not spending time with friends, but what else? Yeah, in little things. Socially, for example, you might start saying if you're someone who loves one on one time with a couple of your friends and usually do it once or twice a month, and you realize they ask you and you start dreading it, and you pull out and you can't really even imagine having the energy to do that. You start to worry about it, fixate on it. So looking at, for example, social, looking at if you're working, if it is starting to impact your ability to work, are you not able to show up?
00:15:14
Are you worrying for so long that you actually might be stuck and not able to leave your house? If you're worrying so much and you can't leave your house, are you not able to get things done? Is it impacting your ability to be involved with your children, to take them places, to be with them, to do things for them, to be around them? Really looking at the interactions that you have in the different areas and aspects of your life. Your relationship, if you're avoiding in your relationship, if you're pulling away, if you are starting to have a lot of fear in your relationship and it's impacting your relationship, and there's nothing in the relationship that has changed it's.
00:15:59
More. So just these generalized fears that you're starting to have that starts to almost push your partner away and create distance, anything like that. You want to start to explore a little deeper. What about for people who I know sometimes this is something I can do and I'm sure other people can relate, where we'll get a thought and then it starts to spin. You know what I mean?
00:16:21
And then, like my sister, we'd always say, oh, you're planting seeds, and the idea sinks in your brain. And then it just grows and grows and grows. And then it becomes this tree. And it's like a brooding thought. A brooding, I think is the right word for it.
00:16:37
And it's just spinning. Is that a sign for people of something that can just happen to sometimes that just happens or something they can be aware of or anything like that, where you basically are in a thought process and you can't figure out how to spin out of the what if, like you mentioned. Yeah. So you're spiraling, right? You're in that spiral.
00:16:56
You're stuck. It's almost like a toilet paper roll that it's just like rolling out, right? We joke that. We're like, look, Andrea's throwing seeds, planting trees left and right in her mean. We joke about my sister and I both joke about it, but it's real for people.
00:17:14
Yeah. So it's kind of being able, if you're able to recognize that that I'm spiraling here with the what if thoughts. You're doing great because you're able to see that. And at that moment, you have the ability to say, that's my anxiety. And I'm going to focus instead on kind of shifting my attention and focusing on reality and what is.
00:17:38
Even though the toilet paper is all over the floor now and I have no toilet paper left. I am going to take a moment and I'm going to maybe walk out of this bathroom and I'm going to go look at something calming and I'm going to come back to reality, think about what is in this moment and move away from all the what if thoughts. Move away from that tree and then deal with once you start. To de escalate that intensity of the spiral and kind of move out of it. You can then deal with the tree and figure out from a more logical place.
00:18:09
Okay, do I actually have to do anything? Was it actual toilet paper? Was it imagining? Do I have to start to pick things up? And so you get to see, what do I have to actually do here from a more logical place.
00:18:22
And if there's nothing, then you're fine. And for example, a practical example that I see often is like the what if related to health, right? So what if this is breast cancer or what if this is cancer or whatever it is, and you're spiraling, right, of all the possible things, and you're unable to get out of that spiral. And so it's then that you say to yourself, okay, if you pull yourself out of the spiral and you're like, okay, I'm spiraling here, then trying to find a way to focus on something else to calm yourself down, to kind of decrease the intensity. And then if you're in therapy or on your own here looking at reality, okay, I'm having this what if spiral.
00:19:12
What are the facts? Okay, well, I had my mammogram, like, a week ago. It was clear my doctor said all is good, and I have no other signs, so I should kind of put this to rest versus I have a lump, and I haven't been to the doctor in two years. I have to take action. And so recognizing, okay, so that spiral was coming from somewhere that I need to take action related to it.
00:19:42
And that's what you do from a logical place. And by taking that action, you're able to move and kind of take that tree and kind of take away some of the leaves, take away a little bit of its strength and put it back on you, because sometimes you don't want to ignore the information. Sometimes there's information that you need to act on. But if you're spiraling and you've made that appointment, for example, and it's tomorrow, recognize, yeah, I'm anxious about this. I'm nervous, and I'm going to focus on ways to support myself to keep myself as calm as humanly possible.
00:20:17
Probably going to have restless sleep tonight, accepting it and knowing that I'm going to deal with this and go forward and get more information tomorrow. And so approaching rather than imagining, so really focusing in on reality rather than all these imagined scenarios or stories or hypothesized things. So let's say someone is spiraling. And you mentioned we need to be in the present, but what are some coping skills in that moment? Because sometimes I think we're like, I need to be in the present.
00:20:47
I need to be in the present, but and then we go back into the spiral. What ways can someone, whether it's extreme or whether it's minor anxiety, how can we get better at coping with that spiral and getting out of that? So if it's more extreme, you want to do something extreme. You want to do something that's really helpful, putting some ice cubes in your hands, you'll focus on something else, I promise. Taking a really cold shower, getting all that wakes you up a little, focuses on something else rather than the thoughts that's a little bit more extreme.
00:21:21
So you kind of give yourself a reset button. Also kind of after that, say, focusing in if you're someone who's more like, cognitive, I tend to be pretty cognitive in my mental processes. So I'm like, okay, I've got to look at this as like an investigator. Okay, what is what is my reality? What are the facts in going through it?
00:21:43
But almost as if I'm talking to someone else. It helps. I'm a therapist, but almost as if I'm talking to a friend or my own sister or someone like that. So talking it out, calling someone who understands a friend, a close friend who gets it, and it's like, okay, I need you to make sure that I don't spiral right now. Make sure I'm staying in the present.
00:22:06
So figuring out what those things are for you also grounding, which means really grounding yourself to your physical space so you're not so focused on what's going on mentally. I love using what I feel like I use it, it's called the rainbow, and I use it with my kids a lot. And it's not the five Senses, which is used by a lot of people. Also great, but it's more so looking for things around you because this increases your perspective, also keeps you engaged, that are the color of the rainbow. So maybe looking for five red things, five orange, yellow, green, blue.
00:22:43
You can even add on color. Silver, gold, white, black. It is amazing. My kids love for both. For both.
00:22:50
No, truly, it is amazing. And it gives your body time to de escalate, right? And you know that if you're doing that, you're not in a crisis. So your brain is able to come back to reality. Your body is it creates that buffer zone for you to re approach.
00:23:08
And it's really good for kids. Also very good if your kids get car sick because it focuses them externally on the other cars and looking for colors. You can tell my son got car sick a lot growing up, so we did a lot of looking at different colored cars. But those are some great tips. And honestly, being your own investigator, being curious, because anxiety looks so different for everyone, the spirals can look so different, and they can get really creative on us, these spirals.
00:23:38
So even if the ice or the rainbow worked one time, it might not work all the time. It doesn't mean never try it again, but try something different. Try calling someone. Try talking to a partner or someone that you can in that moment, journaling, try different things and collect as many techniques and strategies that you can have in your toolkit. And when you're in that moment, try whatever you can to get yourself to kind of come down a level or two.
00:24:08
Sometimes I think we think in our mind how it's going to play out? And then when we verbalize it, we're like, oh, that's actually irrational, or that's extreme, or like, yeah, there's a chance. But you realize when you verbalize things, even if you don't have a friend or a partner to verbalize to, maybe this might be a lot for people. I would still verbalize it because I think sometimes when we hear it, even if you're alone, go in your closet and verbalize it. Even if you're alone.
00:24:38
I'm in my closet right now, so this is easy for me. You're like, I see this all day long, all the time, so it's an. Easy one for me. If you, I think, say it, sometimes it loses its power. 100 million%.
00:24:53
All of a sudden you're like, okay, that's really irrational. Or like, that is such a small percent. And I think that that can help. So even if you don't have someone to talk to, that could be useful. I know you mentioned changing the scenery and stuff.
00:25:08
For me, that's a huge one. Like, if I start to spiral on something, if I can literally change my activity, whether if I'm working, I have to stop working, and I need to go on a walk with my kids if I'm in the kitchen. Doing something. And I'm doing something where I'm cooking dinner, but my thoughts are in it. I just need to go and switch my activity.
00:25:30
And then it calms that emotion. And then all of a sudden, it loses its power again when you shift even your activity. So I had never heard the rainbow one. I'm definitely going to teach that to my kids as well. But that's a great one.
00:25:45
It's really helpful. And what you're saying about verbalizing it is, and it's a tried and true technique. It's so helpful. I even recommend to some of my own clients to record themselves or speak into an audio note and hearing it back can be like just saying it is amazing. And sometimes just saying it is enough.
00:26:05
A lot of times it's enough to just be like, oh wow, that makes no sense. Where is that coming from? But then hearing it back, it's almost like you're hearing someone else and you're like, oh, okay. And you get more distance, right? It's creating more distance from the anxiety.
00:26:20
And that's the whole part about the anxiety being more so a passenger versus being the driver of the situation. So when we're spiraling, the anxiety is kind of in control here versus you. So when you make that decision to move out of that room or to look for the colors, the rainbow, or to say something out loud, you've taken back the reins. And anxiety does not like that. So it might get a little louder for a moment, but usually it will get a little quieter because you're not fueling it, you are taking back control.
00:26:54
But it's almost like a toddler having a tantrum. Sometimes it wants you to listen to it and you're like, no, I'm not, I'm not going to go that way, I'm going to go this way. Might get crazy for a moment, a. Moment, but then it will come down. It will calm down.
00:27:09
That's a really great comparison. Yeah. Especially if you practice it, right? So the first time you do it, you're like, oh, this doesn't work, the baby's still crying. Right, but this didn't work.
00:27:19
Well, no, you have to do it a few times and then the anxiety starts to habituate and get kind of normalized and decreases and you start to feel more in control, which is a big part with anxiety, feeling that sense of like, I can deal with this. It doesn't have to be this big scary monster. How do you see anxiety showing up for people when it's like self sabotage? Like, how can that be connected? Because I think some people think, okay, I can work through this spiral and then I'll move on.
00:27:51
Or they don't work through it. How is that then showing up as self sabotage? So anxiety is its main ingredient, is avoidance. So avoiding anything typically can lead to is self sabotage. Right?
00:28:09
We're avoiding things in our life. We're looking externally at imagined scenarios. We're not dealing with reality, we're not dealing with ourselves. So we are completely ignoring what's most important to us or what we want to focus on. Anxiety has taken the reins and so the longer we let it go, we're sabotaging whatever we want for ourselves.
00:28:32
If that is our well being, if that is our parenting, if that is our success in certain areas, we are not giving any attention to ourselves. It's all going towards the anxiety. So in that situation, let's say someone is fearful of something, they're feeling anxious about it, and then because of that, they're not doing it. Like, I want to try a. New fitness routine.
00:28:58
I want to go and learn a new skill, I want to go back to school. Whatever it is, they start to feel anxious about it. They start to fear it. They let that take control so they don't do it. What is a conversation that person could have with themselves to kind of work out of that situation?
00:29:16
So they aren't self sabotaging because I see that with clients all the time. They'll write me and they're starting and they're already telling me how it's not going to work out. Like instantly. They're already plotting out all the reasons why they're anxious and why this isn't going to work, which is very discouraging. And I realize that is their fear taking over in that situation.
00:29:38
Yeah. And that is exactly it. And I think the first thing in all of that is recognizing that it's the fear that's taking over. And that is my fear talking. And most of us can actually will be able to recognize that, but it's like, yeah, but it's loud and scary and I'm not touching that thing with a ten foot pole.
00:29:58
So I'm just going to back away and not deal with this. I'm scared. Once someone is able to recognize that they have the fear of failing and that's what's going on and it's preventing them from taking these steps, that's huge, right? You're naming it and name it to tame it. So step one, awareness huge.
00:30:17
Next thing is really important that someone can do on their own is just for curiosity's sake, consider fully what it would feel like and look like if it did work out, if it did go well. What would that look like if fear wasn't in charge here? Just fully imagine. Because when you imagine through fear, you're fully feeling that you're scared, you feel it physically, you're avoiding it's. A full immersive experience.
00:30:45
So at least if you're going to have the attention there, give a little bit of attention as well to, okay, let's just for curiosity's sake, look at the other side here and consider what it might look or feel like if it goes well. If you are able to do this, if your doesn't get in the way and have that other possibility, at least be on the table and then look at, okay, what is one teeny tiny thing I can do that maybe I'm anxious about but would move me closer to this thing. So maybe it is owning and reaching out and saying I'm having trouble with this and that's step one. Maybe that's the first step. Maybe it is breaking it down into itty bitty actions where it's like tomorrow I'm going to focus on this for two minutes or three minutes and the next day five minutes doing something related to it.
00:31:37
So instead of all or nothing, because that's usually how we think, like going back to school, going into the gym, we usually think I'm doing it perfectly. I'm going to do it perfectly. Like, I'm all in, I'm there, I've completely done it, and I'm perfect. Instead, give yourself a little bit more grace and think about ways that you can do it, where you give yourself kind of like a runway to build up and to transition and to build yourself up. So it doesn't have to be this I'm all in or all out.
00:32:06
And once you start, once you make those steps, momentum builds pretty quickly. And the anxiety, it dwindles because you're showing you've evidence that fear is wrong. Do you feel like part of that is we're in that situation and we're fearing doing something new, and our anxiety is taking over? As you're talking, I'm thinking, is this partly because we're hyper focusing on the big picture rather than the tiny steps? Do you know what I mean?
00:32:33
We're like, I want to do X thing, and we're so focused on that that it seems big, magnificent, scary, not real. And we're missing the small steps because everything you pointed out was like, just little things for sure. And I see this every day. How do you get people to recognize that, though? You know what I mean?
00:32:54
Once you talk about it, people are pretty look at what you're saying to yourself. Look at what the goal is. Is the goal go back to school or graduate with this degree, get this degree? Is it to get my cholesterol to the whatever? Is it to become lose X amount of pounds?
00:33:18
Is it whatever it is, whatever the goal is here? Is it something that's great to have that big picture thing, but that's not what you're working with every day, right? What you're working with every day is the actions related to it. So instead of hyper, fixating on that. Make that something that you can look at and defer to and check in with, like, maybe every two weeks, you put it in a calendar, and you'd be like, that's when I'm going to worry about and look at my progress towards this big goal.
00:33:47
But until then, these are the tiny actions I want to focus on related to it. Because anxiety doesn't really care about the tiny actions. Like, if you want to do that today, okay, but it does latch on to the big, important things. And so it's a really cool way to trick your mind. So you still have that big thing, and you put it in your phone, your calendar in two weeks to check in on and reset.
00:34:09
But the daily stuff related to it is a lot less provoking. That makes sense to me. Your anxiety is not going to care if you're like, oh, I'm going to drink a certain amount of water today. But your health goal, which is huge, right? It's like, oh, it does.
00:34:23
It's. Like what? We're not doing that. That's too much work. But like, fine, I'll drink 60oz of water today.
00:34:29
That makes sense. So just look at those little because your anxiety doesn't care about the little. It wants to catastrophize the big yeah. And give yourself credit. Each of those little steps are not that's how you make the progress.
00:34:41
It's action builds action and momentum and motivation and all of that. And anxiety isn't like any of it. So you're doing a good job against anxiety there. I love that. So let's talk about how anxiety, one affects our relationships and then two, I want to talk about it.
00:34:56
In dealing with others with anxiety, what not to say to them and how to talk with our kids. So how does anxiety show up in our relationships that harm it? Because we've kind of talked about the spiraling and the self sabotage. What about in our relationships? Because it can damage relationships.
00:35:10
When your anxiety is flaring with your partner or your spouse, what does that look like? It can look very like you have a lot of doubtful thoughts, right? You start to hyper fixate on things that might be related to your partner. For example, what if they don't like me anymore? Do they seem more distant?
00:35:33
Are they going to leave me in the future? It's having a lot of questions and uncertainty, which then can impact the relationship because tends to lead to a lot of reassurance seeking. So repeatedly asking your partner, are you going to leave me? What are you doing? Kind of constantly being motivated and asking things that are motivated by your anxiety and not based on the reality of the situation.
00:36:01
And so for anyone with someone who's dealing with anxiety in a relationship, it's really hard and it's frustrating because it starts for the other person. If it's not based in anything and they don't know it's anxiety, you start to doubt that the person trusts you, that the person is able to sees you the same way. Why are they asking these questions? So it creates a lot of tension and eventually annoyance because the questions and the reassurance seeking don't usually stop. It only becomes more perpetual because anxiety doesn't reassurance fuels anxiety.
00:36:38
So when you're asking for reassurance over and over in a relationship, it's not going to stop on its own. So in those situations where we see it affecting not just our own spiraling and self sabotage, but it's affecting our relationship. I know some of those coping skills might be the same, but what is some of the first steps you tell someone who is realizing, oh my gosh, it's affecting my relationship with my spouse or partner. Talk about it, name it, verbalize it, say I've been asked. Don't avoid it, don't ignore it with your partner and be like, I think this is actually I've been doing this thing.
00:37:13
Have you noticed? Be open about it, talk about it, put it out there and figure out if it's a healthy relationship. You should be able to talk through this and recognize if the other person knows you pretty well.
00:37:27
Is this coming from anxiety? What's going on? Am I channeling anxiety maybe, or stress from other areas of my life into our relationship? Because I feel like it's a safe place for my anxiety to land. Because we tend to hurt those that we love the most and that we know will stick around sometimes.
00:37:45
So our anxiety can land in those areas. And when you notice it, it's like, oh, okay, let me talk about this and figure it out and figure out maybe where is it coming from? If it's not coming from anywhere, maybe I just need you to help me. So if I'm going to seek reassurance, if I'm asking you questions, you can't respond, be like, I'm not going to respond to that. So have your partner buy in to support you with not fueling the anxiety.
00:38:11
So like recognizing and they can say this is your anxiety asking, I'm not going to respond. And it's hard and it's hard to do that as the partner. But it's so helpful. It's so helpful and it takes it away and you're not getting the reassurance. It's really painful at first, the toddler tantrum is loud, but then it gets better and you're able to see where the anxiety and the stress is really coming from if it's somewhere else, that makes sense.
00:38:37
And I think that would be hard at first to have them say this is your anxiety. But at the same time, if that person loves you and they're trying to help you, pointing that out might help you truly be like, oh my gosh, it is. It totally is. I'm going to stop it's. That verbalization.
00:38:51
So whatever they say, it doesn't have to be this is your anxiety speaking. Come up with whatever words feel comfortable to both of you and aren't triggering but just aren't reassuring. So it could be an emoji, like a heart or a sun. And that is like I'm not responding to that question. Whatever it is.
00:39:12
Yeah, whatever it is, having some sort of sign that means this symbol or these three words that I'm saying mean this is your anxiety. I'm not answering that question. Now, on the flip side, let's say you're not the one with anxiety. Let's say you're dealing with a sibling, a spouse, a kid, whoever else. What are some things we can not say to make it worse?
00:39:34
Because know there's things that people say that actually make it worse. So can you tell us about some of those? And also then I would love to get into some coping skills for our kids. I know we talked about the rainbow one, but anything else that you have. But first, let's talk about those things not to say.
00:39:47
Because I think we can address this from both ends of like the person with anxiety and dealing with people with anxiety. Yes, for sure. So a big one for what not to say and I have a series that I do of what not to say. And it's so fascinating because what I'm going to recommend here is if you're close with this person, ask them. Ask what is helpful in supporting them, especially if they're struggling with anxiety.
00:40:16
Ask what is helpful, what's not helpful. Everyone has different words that are supportive or not supportive. So one that I think is pretty generally, universally not liked is calm down.
00:40:30
Most people don't like to hear that when they're anxious to say that. And that one is very easy to say to our kids, so easy, and I definitely do it, but it's not received that well and doesn't actually help that much because it's not doing anything. It's not validating or having any openness. There also just kind of minimizing or saying like oh, this will pass. Or everyone feels this way, or things that kind of take away from that person's experience and that person's pain or their own experience in that moment.
00:41:10
So just not wanting to generalize or speak over that person's experience. But more so, asking, approaching with curiosity, be like what's going on? Or I'm here for you, do you want me to listen? Do you want me to sit with you? Be curious, don't assume anything.
00:41:28
When someone's anxious or feeling a certain way, be willing to ask. And that's hard, right? Because we're scared of saying the wrong thing. And I think what's also really important to remember is the intention usually is good. You don't want to hurt the person and if you put your foot in your mouth, you just say delete that.
00:41:48
I did not mean to say that. Let's start over because I don't like how that might have made you feel. Tell me what would help you, how can I best help you? What would help for you to hear right now or not hear? And I think recognizing that their feelings are real, exactly.
00:42:05
Like to them this is real. I mean, to you as an outsider, you might be like they are freaking out over nothing, but this is real to them. Yes. And so remembering that because I have a daughter who we kind of will do this and I have to take a step back myself and say this is real for her. Let me treat her with the respect that I would hope someone would treat me with.
00:42:28
Exactly. And I think that's the thing is it doesn't really matter what the thing is. It's focusing in on the feeling normalizing by modeling to your children that you have emotions too, right? So they can see what it is like for someone to have tough emotions, to name it. Of course you don't want to be out of control, but if you're having a hard day, don't try to pretend everything is fine.
00:42:53
You can say at age appropriate levels, today's tough. I'm having a tough day and I'm happy to be here with you. But to recognize that I'm having some emotions, and that's okay. And so verbalizing it and being open to sharing that and not making it something that you need to hide or keep to yourself, because then you're sharing that message with them that I need to hide when something's wrong. I need to not say anything when something's wrong.
00:43:24
So that's the first massive thing, because we tell our kids to do all of this, but then when they see us not doing those same things, it's very confusing. Very confusing. So I might be like, Mom, I had a really tough day at work, and I'm feeling a little exhausted and drained right now and a little sad. I'm going to go for a walk and hang out with dad. I'll be home in ten minutes.
00:43:51
So they see, like, I have feelings, and I'm going to do something. I'm going to take care of myself. And that's important, and they get it, and they understand that when we have feelings, it's okay to say we have a feeling and to name that feeling and to recognize that I deserve to take care of myself when I feel this way, and to share that so you can model it. And then figuring out with your kids what helps them to cope in the moment, and that's going to differ based on the intensity of the anxiety, also their personality and their age, all of that stuff. But really figuring out one, making it, and it's really hard, but making it so that you're sitting with them before you jump to coping, take a moment to allow them to have a feeling without doing anything, because that acknowledgment of a feeling is something that we don't really learn to do.
00:44:54
And so instead of going into action mode, which every parent, including myself, wants to do, like, let me fix this now. Let me give you something to fix this right here's, the Band Aid. Instead, focus on, okay, let's actually look at that together. Let's just sit here. We don't have to talk about it.
00:45:10
Let's just sit here. You tell me what's going on. Tell me about that. And kids will usually tell you about it. They might draw.
00:45:17
Let them just express no commentary. That's it. You sit there and you listen. This is hard. Validate it just like you would.
00:45:29
This is really hard. And talking through, letting them talk often, that is like asking, what do you need? They're a little older. My son now knows all of this. He's nine.
00:45:42
So we have these conversations daily at this point. And often he needs a hug, or he needs some quiet time to himself in his room without a sister annoying him, or he needs to go outside and get some energy out. So it's figuring out what those things are. But for example, when he was younger, I had a calm corner in his room, and so we had different things that would help him to calm the anxiety down that might be. We had a box with puzzles.
00:46:14
We have pictures of what things he could do. Puzzles in there. There was a pillow he could hold. I think there was a little musical thing that you could hit play on that had a cute little stuffed animal that had some calming music play DOH like different things that just allowed him to have a place to go and to have some time to have that emotion fizzle out a little bit and to feel safe. And all of that changes usually by the age of what helps them and what they find to be helpful.
00:46:48
And as they become more verbal, you can talk about it and help them to talk about it. At nine, my son's favorite strategy is journaling, which is amazing for him to be able to see that and to look at it, to be able to look at what's bothering him. And then he's like, oh, that's not so bad, and he can see it. And so for every kid, it's going into their strengths and helping them and getting creative. There's no best or one way to do it, which I know is not the answer most of us want to hear, but it opens up for creativity to come into play and to work with your child and what their personality is like and really meeting them where they're at.
00:47:30
And usually it's sensory stuff, so it's touching, listening. So if you want to kind of focus in on those things, it's usually things that are going to focus in on the senses or kind of some sort of movement. For some kids, it's more active movement, for some kids, it's very gentle movement. So it depends on their nervous system and how they're doing. I love that you pointed out to first let them sit in the emotion, because I do think as parents, we want to shift straight into fix.
00:47:59
I'm going to fix the problem and think about it from your perspective. I hate when I'm trying to tell someone an emotion and they instantly jump into fixing. I'm like, in fact, we joke at our wedding, my sister in law gave my husband a funnel and a screwdriver and said, listen, sometimes you need to listen with the funnel and sometimes you need to fix, but you don't always need to fix. And I know you think you always need a fix, but I think we do that as parents and we do that in our relationships. We want to fix, fix, fix, and we forget, no, sometimes let's just use the funnel and let's just listen.
00:48:31
And as you mentioned, for the kids, sometimes just them being able to walk through the scenario and get those emotions out might fix the problem alone without even jumping to coping skills. It often does, it's very powerful. It often does for us as well, right? Like just sitting with and being able to talk. It totally does.
00:48:50
Say it out loud or talk to your spouse. And my husband will often ask he will often ask, do you want comfort or do you want solutions? And so he is very much focused on, like, I usually just want not solutions because we're usually able to strategize on our own. And I want you to listen and not say anything, but actually listen. Don't go on your phone.
00:49:15
Sit there and listen to me vent and ramble. And then at the end, you're like, oh, that felt good. And yeah, it does. Sometimes you don't have to even go into the complicated skills. And I think that's where the frustration for parents can often come in when they're like, these skills aren't doing anything, or they work for a second because we've bypassed the emotion and we're trying to just fix, but we're really just at the surface.
00:49:41
So we haven't actually looked at what's underneath this emotion or let it be, like, breathe a little bit. Yeah, that makes sense. So let's kind of wrap up by someone who is dealing with anxiety, or they're working with someone with anxiety. What is one thing that you would want them to know, like, as they work on this journey, as they're trying to work on their thoughts and their coping skills and dealing with the emotion and all the things we talked about, what is something that you want that person to know? Anxiety is a roller coaster.
00:50:12
It is full of ups and downs. It's creative, and you feel at times like it's in control. But remember that you're always, always able to take back and reset and take back the control and create the distance. And so it's really remembering to keep yourself in the driver's seat. And even when the anxiety jumps forward and tries to take over, you can return back in control.
00:50:45
There's never a point too late. So remind yourself of that. It's just figuring out sometimes, what do I need to help me to get back into that place? And it might be a quick fix, like something that we talked about, or it might be looking and reaching out for professional support, but just know that it's never too big and never too far gone for you to get back and be in control. And anxiety is a strategic it's creative, but it's something that you can wrap your hands around and actually manage and deal.
00:51:17
So don't think that if you're struggling with it, that you should struggle with it forever. You can get better and not have it be a major player in your life, but just kind of a minor cast member. I love that. All right, where can we find you on social media? Your website?
00:51:34
Yeah, I'm on Instagram on my very long name. So carolyn Rubenstein, PhD. On Instagram. I post all the time on there, and my stories are very real life. I tend to show my kids and talking to them about emotions and all of that good stuff in the hard moments.
00:51:50
Also online. Carolynubenstein.com, awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. I hope that you are walking away from this episode not discouraged by any means, but feeling empowered and recognizing that anxiety does not have to control you.
00:52:07
It does not need to be the driver in your life. It can be a passenger. And as dr. Rubenstein said, it can get smaller and smaller and smaller. It does not need to be a main character in your life.
00:52:19
It can become a very small background person who eventually is just walking in the background and you don't even know they're there. But the more we are aware, the more we recognize it, the more we verbalize it, the more we call it out and communicate and then work on feeling those emotions and the coping skills, the more we can move. That anxiety from the driver to the very back and hopefully even just kick it out eventually, but just in general, improve our lives and decrease that level of anxiety that we feel. Because, as I mentioned, it can be a tree. We can plant that seed, and it can grow and grow, or we can give that seed no water, don't water it and let it just wither away and die off, and then we can just enjoy our life and not have to be as anxious and overthink things.
00:53:09
All right, that's it for today. As always, you are doing so much better than you think you are. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. I say it every week, and every time I say it, I get goose clubs. So you're doing so much better than you think you are.
00:53:23
We'll chat next week.