[TELEVISION, "FRICTION"]
Have you a real love of books and learning? Are they your friends? Do you like people, and do people like you? Do you like all kinds of people? Because when you have these two important qualifications, love for books and love for people, you may well consider the vocation of a librarian. (SINGING) I knew it must have been
You are listening to WREK Atlanta, and this is Lost in the Stacks, the research library rock and roll radio show. I'm Charlie Bennett in the studio with Cody Turner and Fred Rascoe and a guest to be named later. Each week on Lost in the Stacks, we pick a theme and then use it to create a mix of music and library talk. Whichever you tune in for, we hope you dig it.
And our show today is called "New Librarian, New Journey." Longtime listeners know that a title like that means we're going to introduce a new member of the Georgia Tech Library faculty.
And while I love the title, "New Librarian, New Journey," that does not even begin to cover the history of our guest at the Georgia Tech Library. But the title "Previous Staff Member-- Reapplication of Core Values in a New Faculty Position" just seemed unwieldy.
OK. Our guest is the engagement and inclusion librarian at the Georgia Tech Library. And while she's recently assumed the librarian position-- boy, that sounds kind of-- CHARLIE BENNETT: You know, that's some pretty formal language. I don't know why that's in there. She's been our colleague for way longer than that.
Yeah, she's seen some stuff with us.
[LAUGHS]
So our songs today--
No, no we're going to try and make her break. No.
Our songs today are about inclusion, engagement, and a sense of belonging. Those things don't just happen if we're going down the road of sustainable diversity culture. It will take the effort of everyone involved to make that journey. So let's start with "Get Up, Get Into It, Get Involved Part 1" by James Brown--
Yes, please.
--right here on Lost in the Stacks. (SINGING) Everybody over there, get on up Everybody out there, get into it Everybody right there, get involved Everybody get it Hit me Hey
That was "Get Up, Get Into It, Get Involved Part 1" by James Brown. This is Lost in the Stacks, and today's show is called "New Librarian, New Journey." Our guest is Karen Manning, the engagement and inclusion librarian at the Georgia Tech Library and the library's campus diversity liaison. Karen, welcome back to the show.
Hello, everyone.
Last time we had on here, you were actually not here. We had you virtually, right?
Glad to be here in person today.
Yeah.
That was back when everything was virtual--
It was.
--because of COVID. CHARLIE BENNETT: Yeah, as I said, Karen's seen some stuff with us. Right.
Lots. Decades.
So I want to not get nostalgic just yet. We'll do that in the second segment. First, let's begin with, what is the engagement and inclusion librarian? What do you do?
What do I do as the engagement and inclusion librarian? Well, if you think about it, priorities have shifted in libraries. And as we try to address the multicultural student population and faculty, just our users in general, the multicultural populations, we had to shift with those priorities. And having a librarian that is multiculturally competent was essential and necessary to address the needs for more inclusiveness with our work.
Are you the first engagement and inclusion librarian?
I am the very first inaugural inclusion and engagement and inclusion librarian, which I have been able to craft my own workout, which has been a little bit challenging because I have to engage myself with the campus community-- the library first and then the campus community-- to research the needs of different groups and populations of people.
When you say research the needs, you mean figure out what's going on?
Figure out what's going on because, as a research institute, those needs can be different. We have different learning needs from our students. And the things that we were focused on, laser focused on, is the disciplinary areas, which is absolutely essential when you're at a research institute, but then trying to think outside of those specific disciplines.
And when you're instructing multicultural groups of people, what else were those needs that would satisfy and have successful outcomes for their research and their education here at Georgia Tech?
So in a library that liaises with, say, the aerospace engineering department, the mechanical engineering department cetera, et cetera, the liaison for inclusion and engagement is designed, from what I'm guessing you're saying, to get away from a default interaction and recognize that there are differences in both the student population and the faculty that we're serving that need to be observed, addressed within our library.
Yes, and to understand what those learning needs are. Students have different learning needs. The standard and traditional way of how we were serving our content or our spaces-- it wasn't very welcoming at times to understand coming from this culture or that culture. And then we just had standard maybe English or American things to satisfy their educational needs. And so to look outside of that and to see what else would satisfy, to help for those successful outcomes here at Georgia Tech.
So are you changing stuff in the catalog? Are you making changes to how the library does things? Or are you finding new stuff that is right for the student body, all of that, more? What's going on?
There's a pivot toward each and every one of those areas you spoke about. As the library itself, we have to make changes. There are things with our content, our physical spaces, and we can get into that a little bit later when it comes to satisfying those student needs. The content was very important because we didn't have a very-- let's call it-- diverse and inclusive material for students to really use.
And so I've been able to participate in the content management team where I've identified a wider array of diverse material that also speaks to the students' needs and the faculty to look outside of what they traditionally was doing with some of the instruction. I know I had a conversation with the content manager, content management chair. And they were stuck on the fact that it's just totally disciplinary stuff.
And I just brought an example and said, well, you know, what if somebody thinks I can use this database to expand what we're doing here in this classroom? And that made some sense, even though it wasn't specifically that aerospace or computer science thing, but whatever. Because everything is so multidisciplinary now, and you have to marry all of these disciplines together.
Yeah. And if someone's not familiar with how we purchase things for the library collection, it's very specific to major, very specific to services. So trying to bring things in that are of wide interest and have no particular school or major to attach to is a little bit harder. And it seems like that's-- you're just in the room to make sure someone does it.
Absolutely. And then it's important that we elevate our print and our online presence because if it's not there, people don't have anything to-- well, they have things. But how much more can they find that would be of interest to them? So just having them to enable new educational and research opportunities by having a wider array of content.
I think sometimes people get stuck on hearing any of the words like "diversity," "inclusion," "engagement," "DEI," any of that stuff. And they get stuck on the idea that it's about race and race alone and that it's about representation. But it's not just that at all, is it?
No. Actually, it's having positive collaborations. It's advocacy. It's being able to communicate with people and just be a conduit for change to unify and be just more universal about how we do things. It just has to-- we have to address the student population that's very, very multicultural. You just can't ignore that. And we have to make sure that fulfilling those needs-- I mean, that's inclusive of every student.
And we have to make sure that we are providing successful outcomes with the work that we do in our library.
So we're almost at the end of the segment. So I'm going to put one subject to the next segment. But what does it mean to be the diversity liaison, the campus diversity liaison? KAREN MANNING: Well, this position, the engagement and inclusion librarian, has provided me the opportunity to expand on the existing relationships that I've had institutional wise and form new ones. As the liaison, the outreach work, it surrounds Georgia Tech's strategic value of, we thrive on diversity.
And by incorporating these inclusion principles and best practices, a community of peers here on Georgia Tech, we try to provide fair and equal treatment and access to resources for all university stakeholders. So being a part of that group, it allows me to stay current with campus initiatives, with all of the diversity initiatives that's going on. As we know, we don't have a central office anymore.
And so we want to be able to continue to focus on that value, and that incorporates all of the work that's being done with the community of practice in the different units and campus groups here at Georgia Tech.
Well, this is Lost in the Stacks. And we're speaking with Karen Manning, the engagement and inclusion librarian at the Georgia Tech Library. And we'll be back with more after a music set.
You can file this set under LC1203G7H47.
[STRING MUSIC]
(SINGING) Know the reason why
That was "Everybody's Gotta Live" by Love. And we started the set with "Have You Seen Your Brother Lately" by-- I'm going to say the "Tay-jez."
I think so. I think that's how you pronounce it. CHARLIE BENNETT: Not the "Tah-jez?" FRED RASCOE: T-A-G-E-S. "Tay-jez."
"Taggies"? The "tags"?
Maybe.
"Tay-jez"?
Let's go with "Tay-jez."
Tages. Songs about trying to find a way to engage with everyone.
[TELEVISION, "FRICTION"]
This is Lost in the Stacks, and today's show is called "New Librarian, New Journey." Our guest is Karen Manning, the engagement and inclusion librarian at the Georgia Tech Library. And in the last segment, we talked about the philosophy behind the position, bringing a diverse and inclusive viewpoint to how the library provides services and resources to our community here at Georgia Tech. I know there's one particular example-- you probably have a lot of examples.
There's one particular example that I know about that I wanted to ask you about, which is the accessibility instruction project that you've been working on. Can you talk a little bit about that example?
Sure. My research on technology for accessibility and people with disabilities has given me insight into the need for developing a comprehensive roadmap to guide the library in its efforts in improving accessibility.
So, Karen, it's your fault that I'm going to take a class on proper alternate text for images, right?
Voluntary basis.
The credit goes to Karen.
On a voluntary basis.
That's how she plays that. The credit now goes to Karen for bringing that to us, Charlie.
That instructional material has to get up to speed with people being able to access it. Learners of all types need to be able to access that instructional material.
So I'm having fun with that. But yeah, we're starting to do training in the Academic Engagement department on getting up to speed, getting up to standard on literal accessibility, like folks who have sight disability, have hearing disability and still need to do our classes, understand our classes. And I have realized now that-- I very much enjoy how I teach, and it seems to get across to folks. But if you can't hear me, then I'm a very bad teacher. And I need to fix that.
And you wouldn't have known that if it had not been brought to your attention.
I wouldn't have admitted it, no.
Oh.
[LAUGHTER]
And it's important because even though sometimes there's some pushback, what people-- if that's the case, then you are not available to serve our users. You have to be able to serve them through creating content that's more accessible.
So accessibility and instruction. And so the classes are one of the first things we're doing. Is this a long-term project, or did you get to where you needed to go and now it's happening?
Well, the process to address the gaps in accessibility are complex. But I am determined and committed to finding the solutions for upgrading and improving the library's physical infrastructure and digital accessibility. Therefore, I am creating a framework that integrates accessibility and disability initiatives into library services that include collections instruction, as you mentioned, physical spaces, programming, public services, technology, and other applicable areas.
Is this similar to the ACRL framework? It's the set of tools that we can use?
I'm not--
Well, it's like-- it's something that touches the entire structure of the library because you teach classes, Charlie. I teach classes. Everybody has different classes that they teach. And it's like all reaching different areas of the Georgia Tech community. But the one thing that it needs in common is that accessibility component so that we make sure, no matter what our subject is-- and I think that's probably a good, I guess, summation of what you do.
You're not only bringing stuff to the Georgia Tech community, but you're bringing an inclusive mindset to the librarians here at Georgia Tech.
It's internal and external because I also partner with external units, like the Office of Disability and the Center for Inclusive Design.
Yeah, CIDI, Center for Inclusive Design--
Yes, CD--
Oh, I can't remember the--
Inclusive Design and innovation. Inclusive Design and Innovation. And those are the exterior partners that's also going to help us move the needle with improving our accessibility layers.
Did you design this job yourself? I mean, you knew you were going to get your degree. Did you build this, or how did this happen?
It is constantly evolving. I have crafted out the majority of the work. There was just one or two things that were brought to my attention, like curating a bibliography for the College of Sciences and also doing some data gathering and research for the Office of the Vice President for interdisciplinary research. So those things came in the librarian realm.
But the other types of things-- programming, exhibits, accessibility, and instruction-- my recommendation for using experts in the training is how I've contributed to that project. CHARLIE BENNETT: How many projects do you have on your docket right now? Well, my white board is filled, and I need to clean it.
[LAUGHTER]
I need to start over for-- I don't like to put too much on my plate. And I'm also always looking for teamwork. So I don't want to be a soloist. I want this to be a part of the entire fabric of the library. This is why I always try to enlist teams to work on these different projects. It's not a soloist. I may come up with the ideas, but I really like people to collaborate on making things happen.
Now, that's a good moment to bring up the thing that Fred and Karen can talk about together.
Right, because part of that that you were just talking about is bringing teams together. There is, at the Georgia Tech library, the Library Engagement & Inclusion Council, which is a group of library employees looking at ways to make the Georgia Tech Library safe, welcoming for its employees as well as the community. You are the oversight, the librarian oversight, the permanent oversight of this council. I'm currently the chair, so I appreciate your oversight of the council.
It's been a fun year. So do you want to talk about the development of that? I know that we've got a very short time left in this segment, but do you want to talk about how that council came to be and what we're doing?
Sure. And thank you for your service and for volunteering to be the chair. So the library identified some inclusion practices, and they were not there. So I was part of the core team for developing the Library Inclusion & Engagement Council. And so the oversight and ongoing work. is we have to come up-- we divided it into subgroups. And those subgroups think collaboraty-- collaboratively as a unit--
I stumble over it, too.
--to figure out, what do we want to do? We try to think about programming, internal training. And so the support from leadership was important in developing the council in the first place. But also, the council is now a part of the larger Georgia Institute of Technology Diversity & Inclusion councils. And we do report out our work that we're doing in the library to the larger institutional units.
And we have gotten some kudos for the work that we've done in our Library Council, so great work being done in that.
Right on. You are listening to Lost in the Stacks, and we'll have more from Karen Manning, engagement and inclusion librarian at Georgia Tech, on the left side of the hour.
[TELEVISION, "FRICTION"]
[FUGAZI, "COMBINATION LOCK"]
Hello, good people, you are Lost in the Stacks with Ian MacKaye here on WREK in Atlanta.
[FUGAZI, "COMBINATION LOCK"]
Today's show is called "New Librarian, New Journey." Our guest, Karen Manning, has worked in libraries almost her whole career. She took on this role of engagement and inclusion librarian pretty recently, so that's where the new journey comes in. But actually, themes of engagement, inclusion, accessibility, diversity have always been important in her library work.
We had Karen on the show as a guest in 2022 talking about her then role as GLA president, and even then, she was on a journey of sustaining a diverse culture. And in fact, I think Fred has a clip to prove it.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Were you able to get into ideological agenda items? Were you able to think about, where is the organization going? What does it value? What's it going to do?
Well, there was going into it another foundational matter, and that was we constructed a strategic plan. So I also had that foundation. And in that strategic plan, we had the themes-- partnerships, collaboration, inclusion, accessibility. So I knew that I had to focus on those themes also because it was turned over to me to do some implementation. So I did have some foundational things to begin to work with. And we actually had some success out of the strategic plan implementation.
We were able to-- the Black Caucus Group made sure that they created a travel grant. The advocacy committee-- that's very, very robust-- they merged with the trustees and friends to become a division together. And accessibility was something that was really, really dear to me also. And that's because I know that our content and our website was not up to standards. And so getting some of that work done. And there were people who-- they had their hands in it, and they wanted to.
And then if they had things to say or wanted to suggest how to do something or to add to it, we did.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
You can file this set under Z6872U6V64.
Cody doesn't like dots.
Am I supposed to say -
[LOS VIOLADORES, "QUIERO SER YO, QUIERO SER LIBRE"]
[CONSTANTINES, "YOUNG LIONS"]
"Young Lions"--
Are you talking over the feedback?
--by the Constantines. Well, the feedback was kind of fading out. CHARLIE BENNETT: It's important to me. [SIGHS] Next time. And before "Young Lions" by the Constantines, we heard "Quiero Ser Yo, Quiero Ser Libre" by Los Violadores. Those are songs about there being a role for everyone in a common community.
[TELEVISION, "FRICTION"]
This is Lost in the Stacks. And our guest today is Karen Manning, the engagement and inclusion librarian at the Georgia Tech Library. So, Karen, we've been talking a lot about resources and accessibility, people being able to use the library. But you're doing some proactive stuff also to try and change the culture.
Absolutely. And by the way, I enjoy the correlation of the music with commonality.
We try. We try our best.
So I serve on the library's programming committee, and that brought a new perspective to the types of programming that we engage in the library. The intent is to provide more multicultural events and exhibits. And for instance, I've used the library Media Bridge as a visual mechanism to display cultural expressions. That's something that wasn't done before. And we hadn't thought about how to reach the campus populations just doing that.
So just as an example, I did an ML King Day video display, Lunar New Year display. And so we want to, again, address our population and say, hey, we see you. We know you're here. You know, happy this day, happy that day-- just to reach out in a cultural way with our Media Board.
I recently went to a Lunar New Year food festival. And it was wild to hear people saying, to me wandering around trying out all the various foods-- saying things that I've heard us talk about in the public programming meetings or Fred talking about stuff when he comes back from the council. And it has a real impact. It actually is out there.
Just everybody who has ever heard someone say, it was nice to see someone like me on the television, knows the feeling of what it's like to see some reference to your stuff out at the library, on the Media Bridge, nonetheless on an enormous inverted screen.
Right, which we've talked about on the show.
Several times.
Yeah. I mean, we have resources. We just got to-- that's that thinking outside of the box again. Whether it's content or a Media Board, what can we do that we haven't been doing, or what can we bring in that we have not been doing? And that's just a fabulous way to reach campus populations.
And you bring in programming for librarians as well, just to get experts from around the community to come in and say, librarians, this is how you can maybe do a better job of-- or learn more about how to engage other cultures, learn to engage folks with disabilities, things like that. You've done programming like that for the library.
Absolutely. It's important that what we don't know is right there for us to gain. We're librarians. We're information keepers and gainers. We love information. So to shy away from those learning opportunities-- it shouldn't be an option, but it is. When you're talking about serving a population that that information is very essential for you to know, it would be nice to really take advantage of those opportunities. For instance, we had a Disability 101 training session.
There are so many types of disabilities. We learned there's invisible, invisible. So it's those types of things that we don't know. But it's a part of our population of people that we're serving that we can be better informed about the things that's going on with those users, also. CHARLIE BENNETT: Karen, I'm going to add a minute to this segment. I'm going to push it just a little bit because I want to hear an answer to a question. What inspires you? What's driving you here?
I think the timing was so right for this position. Again, I have had these lived experiences that I cherished. And they were just memorable. It showed how I connected with people and communicated with people. And so when the role of the engagement and inclusion librarian became available, was an opportunity, I said, this is a great way for me to connect with the larger campus community in a cultural way. Some things that I know or don't know-- because I mean, I'm American born.
And so even though I've traveled and lived in these places, what don't I know? What can I do to bring something here that you're missing, in an educational way, from your culture? And so that drives my inspiration. And it's basically just about connecting with people on a higher level.
Well, our guest today has connected with us. And it's Karen Manning, the engagement and inclusion librarian. So yeah, her job, engagement, inclusion--
She's doing it right now.
She engaged us pretty well.
Hey, Cody, do you feel included?
I feel so included.
Awesome.
More included.
So thank you, Karen, for joining us today. Really appreciate it. KAREN MANNING: Thank you so much. I appreciate being here.
You can file our last set under PR 6060.8455.
Man, you spiked the volume meter.
[KATHY HEIDEMAN, "THE EARTH WON'T HOLD ME"]
[CAROLE KING, "BEAUTIFUL"]
You just heard-- oh, wait, it's fading out, Charlie. Is it OK to start? CHARLIE BENNETT: There's no feedback. You can do whatever you want. All right. You just heard "Beautiful" by Carole King and, before that, "The Earth Won't Hold Me" by Kathy Heideman. Those are songs about having a sense of belonging no matter who or where you are.
[TELEVISION, "FRICTION"]
Today's show was called "New Librarian, New Journey." And we were speaking with Karen Manning, the engagement and inclusion librarian-- it's OK, just grab it, just grab it, pull it down-- about the work that she's doing and the importance of community and belonging. And one of the things I was thinking about is that sometimes we forget that there's some part of us that does want to belong that's maybe not the same as everyone.
And I wondered-- Cody, you better pay attention because I'm going to call on you first.
I'm paying attention. Yes.
Is there some part of you, your identity, that you feel like you'd like to see out in the world, make you feel like you belong more? Is there something that is internal?
You know, I don't know. I feel like it's a stretch to call this part of identity. But maybe coming from this radio station, I feel like there's a particular type of music that I love to listen to that I never see out played at the clubs.
Come on. Let's be specific.
No, I am being serious. You know, it's like-- CHARLIE BENNETT: No, no specific. What kind of music? Oh. Well, I would say just hyperpop, anything that's doing something really weird. Anytime you go out and you hear music, you're like, oh, this is what I hear on a commercial, or this is what I-- this is the same music I've been listening to for 20 years. I would like to see-- the music that's out there is not always like-- just is played for people just to hear as they're walking by.
CHARLIE BENNETT: So musical taste, the thing that actually pulls you out, the thing that makes your heart sing. What about you, Fred?
I don't know. It's hard as-- you know, I just turned 50. So I'm a straight--
Hey, welcome.
--white, middle aged male. I feel like I'm probably represented in that sense of my identity out there.
I'm right there with you.
But then, on the other hand, I watch like-- I have no idea what Cody just said about hyperpop. And anytime I see something new on TV, new shows, I have no idea who these people are or what they're doing, no matter what their race, gender, whatever. So I feel just kind of like out of the loop in general.
I feel like you just kind of dodged the question there.
Yeah.
OK. That's good enough.
Well, you know, I just want to-- well, I wanted to make a comment. And just that's important to have voices, to have people communicate what their likes, what they're familiar with. It's important to have a group. And that's another thing that I didn't mention is that we're trying to gather a student group to inform us of the things that they have not seen or like to hear or like the radio station.
I'm so happy to hear that, because if you heard something on this radio station, Cody, that suited your musical type, you would be ecstatic about it.
That's true.
But if we don't know it--
You need to put it on the air sometimes.
Right. You don't communicate it. You have to be able to communicate. The voices is important here, the differences in what people's likes are. So yeah.
I think that's a good point. Listen to the students.
That was perfect, yeah. Well, I mean, I do--
Charlie?
Oh, I think Karen said it all.
So you're dodging, too.
Yeah, roll the credits, dude. I mean, any time you want.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[LAUGHS]
I thought that was the right time. CHARLIE BENNETT: Lost in the Stacks is a collaboration between WREK Atlanta and the Georgia Tech Library, written and produced by Alex McGee, Charlie Bennett, Fred Rascoe, and Marlee Givens. Legal counsel and an explanation for what hyperpop is provided by the Burrus Intellectual Property Law Group in Atlanta, Georgia.
I tell you, Phillip's on the bleeding edge.
Right. CHARLIE BENNETT: Special thanks to Karen for being on the show, to Cody for just jumping in, to all the members of the Library Diversity Council, past, future, present. And thanks, as always, to each and every one of you for listening. Find us online at lostinthestacks.org, and you can subscribe to our podcast pretty much anywhere you get your audio fix.
Next week will be a rerun, but we'll be back with some more instruction talk the week after that.
Time for our last song today. We started this show with a song about getting up and getting involved, so let's close with a song about keeping on the journey to a culture embracing diversity, keeping on moving forward in a positive direction. This is "Keep On" by Irene Cara, going back to the '80s here on Lost in the Stacks. Have a great weekend, everybody.
[IRENE CARA, "KEEP ON"]