Episode 594: Librarians Represent

So it's hard to say whether we'll be able to have that lasting impact after being here for one to two years. But everyone has been hoping that can happen. So I do feel like our input is valued.

So we've been talking a lot about the past three months and the next eight months, but then you just said one to two years. What happens at the end of this first year that might turn into two?

That's a great question.

And you'd like to know the answer.

Exactly, yeah.

You are listening to WREK Atlanta. And this is Lost in the Stacks, the research library rock and roll radio show. I'm Charlie Bennett in the studio with the whole gang, Fred Rascoe, Marlee Givens, and Alex McGee. Each week on Lost in the Stacks, we pick a theme and then use it to create a mix of music and library talk. Whichever you tune in for, we hope you dig it.

Our show today is called "Librarians Represent," which seems like it should have an exclamation point, but it does not.

Well, with an exclamation point it's a little too close to a call to action.

And you really shouldn't be too excited about archivist erasure.

So our title is a simple statement of fact, librarians represent, period.

And it's also a warning. American librarianship is not as diverse as the nation we serve. And as a profession, we are trying to change that.

Archivists aren't as diverse as the American population either, but that will be another show.

Last year we spoke with the ACRL Diversity residents at the Georgia Tech Library after they'd been here for about three months. Since we spoke with them, they found their places in the library and co-authored an article about library residency programs. So we have one of the resident's back on the show for a check in about the article and about working at the Georgia Tech Library.

Our songs today are about finding your identity, being included, and learning who you are and what you want to do. And I remember last time we had resident Alex Brinson on the show. She talked about her past job working at the Center for Puppetry Arts. We could just spend most of the hour talking about that, right? You on board?

Do not tempt me, Fred. I would like to talk about puppets. We have a very different show that we have to do.

Right, yeah, OK. So, fine, in that case for no reason whatsoever, we'll start with a song called "The Puppet" by Echo and the Bunnymen.

You got to run these things by me, Fred.

Just playing it for no reason, right here on Lost in the Stacks.

(SINGING) I was the puppet All along That was "The Puppet" by Echo and the Bunnymen. I guess the only time we'll get to talk about puppets today. All right. This is Lost in the Stacks and today's show is called "Librarians Represent." And our guest is Alex Brinson, ACRL Diversity resident here at the Georgia Tech Library. And co-author of the article called, "Librarian Residency Programs, A Vital Solution for Increasing Representation in Academic Libraries."

That article gave us today's episode title from the line to better accommodate library users, it is essential that librarians represent the various populations and understand services that are needed and provided.

Welcome back to the show, Alex.

Thank you.

We want to jump into this article. I'm really curious about the writing process.

So there were a lot of people writing this article. That was the thing I was most nervous about because I'd never written with other people before. So we had to have meetings, obviously, to iron out who was writing what section, how we wanted to go about checking in and reading each other's sections as well. I remember I wrote the section on the history of residences. And then Katie and I both had sections where we wrote about our own personal experiences, which was probably the hardest part.

And you hadn't had a lot of experience at that point I guess.

Yeah, that too. It was about the lead up to how we got here. So I talked a lot about school, and the librarians that I met along the way, and how I got to Georgia Tech.

And it seems like the authorship of this article is the structure that supports the residency program, almost, right? Aisha, Stella, and Karen and then the residents. So was that always going to be what you did?

I think so. From the first day we got here, Aisha was like, you're going to write an article. And all of these people that wrote the article with us were instrumental in us being here. So it just worked out that way. We were all excited to do more research and actually write about it.

And it feels a little bit like an advocacy article. You're calling it a vital part of diversity programs. Was that always going to be the title? What was the-- I guess the seed was Aisha saying you're going to write it-- what was the second catalyst for it?

I think so, because you all mentioned it a little already, but there's not a whole lot of diversity in this profession, at least as far as mimicking the diversity of America. So we knew that we wanted to point out the numbers. And even though they are slowly rising and we recognize that, they're still pretty low. So yeah, that was part of it.

I still remember April Hathcock standing up in an ACRL meeting and saying to Roxane Gay, I just wanted you to see my black face in this. And she did not say in this sea of white, but that's what people were talking about. It's rough to think about. Do you expect people to read it, and snap out of it, And start supporting stuff? Or is this really--

That would be nice. But I don't think it'll happen that quickly. But I hope that-- so I get the updates that people are reading it. And that's exciting because I hope that there will be more residency programs. And Kayleah and I got to meet other residents from across the country. So that was very encouraging as well, to see other larger institutions doing their best, trying to support residency programs as well.

What did you learn, doing the research, or talking to other residents and writing the article?

The residencies go back really far in our country's history. They weren't always about diversity. They were about bringing people into the profession. But eventually they developed into a diversity initiative based on-- I think it was affirmative action that made that switch for these types of programs. So that's probably the biggest thing I learned in the research that I did.

Can you define residency? Not in the language of the contract, but just what you think of when you think of residency.

Well, I think most people think of residency in terms of how it's used in the medical field. Here in libraries you hear them called fellowships, residencies. I think it's important to distinguish them from internships because a lot of the times they're called internships. But residencies in libraries are supposed to support early career librarians. They're trying to get their foot in the door, essentially. They're coming right out of school. And that can be kind of difficult sometimes.

You mentioned talking to other residents that had gone through a program before you at other institutions. Did you hear about parallels in your experiences, or maybe divergences and experiences?

Definitely. It was really interesting to hear how other institutions had decided to set up their programs because it's not always on the rotation base track, like what Kayleah and I have done here. Sometimes they come in and they know exactly what their job is. For example, they come in just knowing their programming librarian or something. And it's to make sure that they have a direct track into a permanent position. So I found that really interesting I love the rotation aspect.

Yeah, you didn't have a specific job you were coming into. We brought you and the other resident Kayleah Brown in and said, tell us what you want to do, explore the library and archives and tell us.

Which can be scary because there's a lot. And a lot of people are like looking at you like, what do you want to do? And that's a big question sometimes. And you don't want to cut yourself off from other opportunities. So yeah, I can see the benefit in both. But I'm happy I did it this way because I love archives. And it's been a great experience.

I was just going to say I do remember your presentation, when you came and interviewed at Georgia Tech and you talked about reparative description. And Jody Thompson, our department head, and I both were like, oh, we may have an archivist here. And that did happen.

And we'll probably get into some of that in later segments. But for now, this is Lost in the Stacks. We'll be back with more from Alex Brinson after a music set.

File this set under BD236.I38. [X-RAY SPECS, "IDENTITY"] Identity! Identity!

That was, "The Logical Song," by Supertramp. And before that, "Identity," by X-ray Spex. Songs about figuring out who you are.

This is Lost in the Stacks. And today's show is called, "Librarians Represent." We're speaking with Alex Brinson, one of the two ACRL Diversity residents at the Georgia Tech Library. OK, the article was called, "Librarian Residency Programs, A Vital Solution for Increasing Representation in Academic Libraries."

Well, and Aisha likes to say this all the time, it's really about retention as well. Yeah, it's great that we're here. But it's great, it's vital that we stay.

Yeah, so the residency is like, it's the support for a new librarian. Not just, hey, we'll make a space for you, figure it out.

Exactly. Yeah, and that goes back to the different residencies that I talked to others about, where their job title was an actual librarian that they were already planning on. So that's a good setup as well for retention.

And you mentioned off air the review process was interesting.

So this is my first article writing in this way for a professional journal. So yeah, the review process of, yay, we're happy to have this article and publish it, but here are some changes. And the going back and forth, and trying to make sure you're still saying what you intended to say, but also listen to the editors as well. CHARLIE BENNETT: There's going to be some people in the audience who've never published in an academic journal, peer reviewed.

And your names start with A and K.

Yeah, but we still had to do it, obviously. So that was an interesting part of the review process as well. But yeah, those are the things that stuck out to me.

What was a surprising edit that you had to make?

Well, we wrote this so fast too. I think we wrote this in the span of like two or three weeks. So there were silly things that we missed.

Let me pause. Did everybody hear that Did everybody hear that [GROAN] that came out of the whole show that came out of the whole show team when they heard that?

It's a fast turnaround time. And just pat on the back for all of us for getting it done. But it was just silly things like spelling errors and making sure that you put a citation in there. I think I had cite in parentheses because I had forgotten. So that's basically the of edits we had to make.

Those are things that people who've been in the profession for years also do. CHARLIE BENNETT: Oh yeah, for sure. And this was peer review, right?

Yes.

The comments were not coming from the editor of the journal, I mean some of them might have. But this got sent out to folks who were identified as the peers of the authors. So which reviewer was difficult, one or two? I've found that it's always reviewer two.

I'm not sure.

Reviewer two has that reputation, right?

I was just focused on getting everything right so we could get this into them on time. I was not--

Did the comments all come back in a clump or did were they separated out by the reviewers?

I think they came-- they must have come in a clump because I wasn't paying attention to who was saying what.

I have to imagine that, since this article is very much about 'what my experiences are' from your perspective. This is like what my experience is, what I went through, and it's being peer reviewed. A lot of peer reviewed research is did you do your work right, did you check all of your data to make sure it's OK. This is checking on your experience. And so I imagine getting the review back that said, thanks for telling me about your experience but here's some changes.

Well, so I didn't have to edit that part because I think that's pretty difficult to tell people how to write their own experiences. But yeah, I thought of that as well. And Kayleah Brown and I talked about it a lot. Like what do I put in here, what do I keep out? It's kind of personal. So yeah, that was a unique experience about writing this article.

What kind of stuff did you leave out?

I think I just didn't want to go overboard, I guess. I don't know how personal to get because I think Kayleah and I both experienced this. We graduated from library school in the midst of the pandemic. So that was an extra level of stress around trying to find that first library gig. So I'm struggling remembering how in depth I went into that. But I think I did want to hammer that so people knew my context, but not go off the deep end.

And I'm glad you brought up school. In the last minute of this segment, tell us about the difference between writing this article and writing your papers in grad school. Because you said this was the first serious academic writing since grad school?

Right. Probably, I didn't have to worry about a grade. I was warned about my mistakes before others had to read it. And then you also have the pressure of knowing that there are going to be definitely more eyes on this work than it's not just your professor. It's anybody who finds it.

You didn't do any work on diversity or residency programs in grad school, right?

No. No, I didn't.

Do you remember the last paper you wrote before you graduated?

Oh, I don't know about the last. But the one that stuck out to me the most, because I felt very passionate about it, it was about accessibility and devices that were being used to help blind patrons. And I was really excited about writing that article and doing all that research. So that's the last paper I remember writing, but it's been a minute.

Yeah--

Did you--

Go ahead, Fred.

Did you ever write about puppets? No, sorry. I said I wouldn't mention it. Sorry, never mind.

Now I wish I hadn't let you go ahead. You are listening to Lost in the Stacks. And we'll talk more with Alex Brinson on the left side of the hour.

This is Julie Grob from the University of Houston library, home of the Houston hip hop collection, here in the chopped and screwed city of H-Town. You're listening to Lost in the Stacks, the research library rock and roll radio show on WREK Atlanta. All ready. (SINGING) Everybody clap your hands and sing along with me

Today's show is called, "Librarians Represent." And as you heard earlier, that title comes from the article we've been talking about with Alex Brinson. Alex is a coauthor of, "Librarian Residency Programs, A Vital Solution for Increasing Representation in Academic Libraries," along with other Georgia Tech librarians, Aisha Johnson, Kayleah Brown, Karen Manning, and Stella Richardson. Let me read a small section to you, which comes under the heading, Representation Matters.

--and stand on a platform of representation for all." That was not Fred's fault everybody. If you heard that noise, that was someone else who left it off do not disturb. File this set under LB2805.I433.

(SINGING) Darling, darling, darling, darling, darling

"We Did It Again," by The Soft Machine. And before that, "Include Me in Your Life," by Diana Ross and Marvin Gaye. Songs about being included and about one's work being a part of a collaboration.

This is Lost in the Stacks. And our guest today is Alex Brinson, ACRL Diversity resident at the Georgia Tech Library and co-author of the article, "Librarian Residency Programs, A Vital Solution for Increasing Representation in Academic Libraries," along with our colleagues Aisha Johnson, Kayleah Brown, Karen Manning, and Stella Richardson. So how long have you been in a residency here?

I think, let's see, it's definitely been over a year, a year and three months now, I guess.

How's it going?

It's good. I'm happy to be here. I hope it never ends.

Us too.

Yeah.

So I feel like I need to drop my little disclosure here, that as I hinted at earlier, Alex, we thought could be an archivist. She did choose archives as her department for the rest of her time in the residency and I do lightly supervise her.

A mentor.

Mentor, that is what we're calling it.

Alex B, resident B.

No, but Alex is really fun to work with. And it's fun to confuse people with our names.

Yeah, which Alex are you talking to?

Do you go by the Alexes, the Alexi, the--

Alex squared.

Alex squared, that's a good one. I've heard that Alexes is a lot.

That's what I hear the most too, yeah. CHARLIE BENNETT: It's funny, I had to break my habit of calling my children the twins and start really differentiating. So I don't think I can ever call you all the Alexes. So you were all getting way too comfortable. So I have to ask, how is the job? How is archives? Why did it appeal to you and were you correct in that impression?

Yeah, I think it appealed to me because of my past experience. I know we're not supposed to talk about puppets but--

That's Charlie's rules. You can talk to the rest of us about puppets.

That's exactly right.

What I did at the Puppetry Arts Museum, it was very, very heavily museum archives adjacent. And then when I worked at the AUC Robert W Woodruff Library, I was doing digitization work of archival materials. So it felt like a good segue way. Like I knew a little bit but didn't have hands on experience. So it really worked out in that way. And it's a great department I'm glad to be a part of it.

Can you talk about some of the stuff you've gotten to work on in archives?

Yeah, so a lot of what I've been doing so far has been processing work, which is what we call describing materials so they're accessible to people when they're trying to find things in the archives, creating finding aids. So it's been a lot of professors' collections, their papers. I think one of the first ones I did was Wister Jean Cook. She was an English professor here. And then one of the bigger ones, that's really exciting, that I just finished, is Kristie Macrakis's papers.

Wow, so are there classified things in that collection?

No, there isn't. I mean, you can see everything except for the invisible ink. There're invisible ink samples in there that are pretty cool and--

Allegedly, yeah.

Well yeah, allegedly. But--

That's what they told you.

I'm going to choose to trust her.

And you're on the desk aren't you? You man the reading room. How is that?

It's nice. Yeah, it's some different software I have to get to learn. We use something called Aeon and it's just a little different. Actually, before I worked here, I was in public libraries and I worked the desk nonstop. So one thing I do like about here is that I do my two hours a week and then I get to do other stuff.

Every time I go to a bar with a public librarian, I hear another story about a thing that happened in her library.

Oh yeah, lots of fun stuff.

And it's like that would never happen at the Georgia Tech Library.

Yeah. Yeah, you come home with lots of good stories.

Another show.

Yeah.

OK, so clearly you all are comfortable. Alex and Alex, working together, you seem to have integrated into the department well. Did the residency provide you any support going into the department that you needed? Was there an obstacle? And just pretend she's not here, were there any challenges to entering the department after your-- how many different departments did you work in?

Oh, let's see. Public services, technical services, archives obviously, CISO, it was like four, I think. Yes.

Good enough.

Is that all of them?

A couple of weeks in each one?

Yeah, yeah. It was about a month in archives, I think. Some were longer than others, CISO was longer and archives was longer. So yeah, what was the original question again? Obstacles?

What was it like integrating into archives?

I did go on vacation. I did go on vacation like a week after she joined.

Oh no. I think, obstacles, let's see. It took a minute for me to be invited to our teams. Our department meeting, for some reason, I was only invited to every other week. It was probably the biggest obstacle.

I was having to manually send her the calendar invites every week. And then if she wasn't there in the first minute, I was like, did you not have this calendar invite?

But yeah, everyone's great in archives. I felt super welcome. I don't know about not really any obstacles to integrating, because it felt like I had we did our rotation very close to when I entered the archives department permanently. So it just felt like a seamless transition really. Other than that, department meeting.

Yeah, and I guess not remembering way back when. But your rotation, you worked on something that ended up informing what you started with when you came to us.

Yeah, I just picked up where we left off. So it worked out great

Is that reparative description that you're talking about?

No, Alex did a work plan. Alex and Kayleah both had to do work plans for collections that we had them go through. So basically listing out the decisions, the steps they would make if they got to process this collection. And so this is like a document that archives usually keep. Once you get to a certain place, you're like I don't need a work plan. I'm high up enough. So Alex doesn't actually do work plans.

I was going to say, am I supposed to do those still?

But that was like an exercise to-- but we didn't have time with the rotation for them to actually do the work. So when she came to us I was like, guess what you get to do. You get to execute that work plan.

Yeah. Yeah, it was the Wister Jean Cook papers. And then I think the--

Yellow Jackets flight club.

Flight club, yeah.

There's a club here at Georgia Tech where they own planes and students get to fly them.

Wow, it's not actually a plane in the archives anywhere?

No.

There's those little miniatures ones.

Yeah. And we did have actually headphones for--

Oh yeah.

We did not keep those actually.

We could use those. We're running short in here actually, here in the studio.

I think the summing up that I want to get to with the residencies. It seems like you didn't need the help of a residency program when you started doing the job that you're in now. Was it the going around the library, and the support there, that was really the helpful stuff?

I think it's always important for librarians and archivists to know what people are doing throughout the library, understanding everyone's role. Because we all work together at the end of the day to support students and faculty. So I think that's a really great part of this rotation based residency. And I think it provided me the support to meet everyone too. It's hard with how big we are to see everyone every day or even know everybody's names. So I think that helped too.

Our guest today is Alex Brinson, ACRL Diversity resident librarian at the Georgia Tech Library. And she also used to work at the Center for Puppetry Arts. I don't know if you all knew that. Thanks for joining us today, Alex.

Thank you.

File this set under HF5381.N363.

That was, "Learning So Much" by Summer Salt. And before that, "So Much to Learn," by Nikki Sudden. Songs about learning who we are and what we can do.

CHARLIE BENNETT: Today's show was called, "Librarians Represent." And I don't think we can do a quick, fun pre-credit question about diversity or the lack thereof in the profession. So I'm going to rely on the residency theme. Let me ask the show crew, lightning round, as an unconstrained thought experiment is there a library department that appeals to you for residency, that you'd like to dip your toe in and get a sense of? Fred.

Maybe the Center for Puppetry Arts has a residency--

OK, you're done, turn off his mic. Marlee.

Oh gosh, I think public services and archives sound like they have more fun than the rest of the library. Yeah, what about you Alex?

Probably, surprising no one, I'd do public programs and community engagement. CHARLIE BENNETT: Oh, that's nice. I am a pure archivist poser. I love knowing we have all these fans.

I'm so into it, theory wise, and I know that I would be terrible at actually sorting out the documents.

I would too. But, yeah. But so much fun.

So much fun. Don't disabuse us of our fantasy.

No, I'm happy for you. CHARLIE BENNETT: Roll the credits.

MARLEE GIVENS: Lost in the Stacks is a collaboration between WREK Atlanta and the Georgia Tech Library, written and produced by Charlie Bennett, Fred Rascoe, Marlee Givens, and Alex McGee.

Legal counsel, and what seems to be blank pages with what I think maybe is invisible ink, were provided by the Burrus Intellectual Property Law Group in Atlanta, Georgia. CHARLIE BENNETT: Philip is tricky. MARLEE GIVENS: Special thanks to Alex for being on the show, to ACRL for supporting diverse librarians getting into the profession. And thanks, as always, to each and every one of you for listening.

That is right.

It's time for our last song today. As we now know, Alex Brinson has learned a lot in her one year at the Georgia Tech Library archives. Even though she might have been slightly overwhelmed when she first got here, by now she's the one teaching us old hands what's what. So let's close with a song about learning a lot in a new and scary environment and, ultimately, taking confident control of the situation. This is "Listen Up!" with an exclamation point--

Oh, you got one in there.

--by The Gossip, right here on Lost in the Stacks. Have a great weekend, everybody.