Episode 545: What Does the Archivist Care About?

You are listening to WREK Atlanta. And this is Lost in the Stacks, the Research Library Rock and Roll Radio Show. I'm Charlie Bennett in the studio with Marlee Givens and Fred Rascoe. It's the whole crew. Each week on Lost in the Stacks, we pick a theme and then use it to create a mix of music and library talk. Whichever you're here for, we hope you dig it.

That's right, Charlie. Our show is called "What Does the Archivist Care About?" which I kind of want to sing.

(SINGING) What does the archivist care about? And since we are a crew of information scientists trained in searching and information retrieval, we know how best to satisfy this information need musically or otherwise.

Oh, yeah, like an on-air literature review.

Or curated results from a multi-database search engine.

How about we ask an archivist, the archivist we have with us, what she cares about?

It's crazy. But it just might work.

Well, we may not have curated results from database searches. But we did put together a playlist based on archival practice. Our songs today are about finding things, the impact of what's unseen, and rare treasures. Let's kick off with a song about both rarity and discovery. This is "I Found That Essence Rare," by Gang of Four. That's definitely about finding stuff in the archives, right? It's right here--

It has to be.

--on Lost in the Stacks.

CHARLIE BENNETT: That was "I Found That Essence Rare," by Gang of Four, specifically about archives. This is Lost in the Stacks. [CHUCKLES] Sure. CHARLIE BENNETT: And today's show is called "What Does the Archivist Care About?" To answer that question, our colleague Alison Reynolds is in the studio.

Hey, welcome back to the show, Alison.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

So let's start with that curator role. What do you care about when it comes to being a curator?

As a curator, I think I care mostly about selecting things that people will use. We spend a lot of money on some of these rare books. So I hate to think that they will just sit in the vault. But that can be kind of complicated because we don't have a lot of outreach right now for rare books. And I think people just don't know about them. I try to work with faculty. I try to reach out to faculty when I can to see what they might be interested in.

I have to say she's using air quotes right now.

Yes. Yeah, so in the past, what have people deemed important in the history of science and trying to fill out our collection that way?

And as we talked about last time you were on the show, there's a difference between the book as object and the content. What's the-- I can't think of the right word-- the je ne sais quoi of the rare book as a thing versus the information in it that you are assessing when it comes to how it's interesting to the community?

Yeah, I think that's almost more important to me than the contents of the books. Most of these are not written in English. So a lot of students can't read them. So I'm always looking for books with interesting images, illustrations, interesting bindings. I just spoke with a book dealer last week [CHUCKLES] who was trying to find things that we might want. And I explained to him, we're not really collecting a specific topic but I'm looking for things that students might find engaging, you know?

How do your rare books get used either in scholarship or in the classroom? Obviously you have the first edition of Newton's Principia. And you can get a million different digital copies of that everywhere. But you can't get the actual first edition-- your hands on the first edition everywhere. So what is either the scholarship or the in-class use of something like that?

Yeah, the thing with rare books, especially Newton's first edition Principia, is there are so few copies. People have actually done a book census to see how many copies there are of Newton. Some scholars spend their career just looking at all these different books and marking what distinguishes them from each other. So our first edition, for instance, has a whole bunch of handwritten notes by somebody. We don't know who it is. But they look like they were taken around the 17th, 18th century.

It's not Newton's handwritten notes. It's whoever owned that first edition. ALISON REYNOLDS: Right, it's not Newton. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, if it were Newton, people would know. [CHUCKLES] It would be in the news. Right. Is there any way to ever find out who did those notes? Do you have a plan at all? Or is that just sort of--

Probably not. I mean, unless it was somebody really famous that you could compare a handwriting sample to, that there was an existing letter. But if it was just a random student, professor somewhere, we probably will never know.

And you mentioned the volumes being not in English. What are some of the languages that we have represented? ALISON REYNOLDS: Mostly European. That is part of our collection, that it is mostly European. A lot of scientific texts were published in Latin at the time, which of course most people don't study now.

But we do have some in Italian, French, German, Spanish. Yeah, mostly European. We have a handful of things in Chinese, Japanese, but not a lot. So I'm always looking for things in that area we can expand to, as well.

So we would be remiss if we did not also talk about that much narrower collection that you curate, the science fiction collection. How different is that from when you're thinking about rare books, when you're thinking about the science fiction collection? ALISON REYNOLDS: Totally different. I feel like I have to put on a different hat and go into a different head space [CHUCKLES] because rare books, I'm looking at mostly pre-1800. But with science fiction, it's mostly 20th century.

So what are some of the characteristics that would make our collection special in that way?

Yeah, I think the things like the manuscripts, where there's not thousands of copies at other libraries. We have a big fanzine collection that doesn't get a lot of attention. But I've also been looking at maybe expanding that because those are things that also aren't available online digitally quite as much as a lot of these books.

This is Lost in the Stacks. And we'll be mo-- [CHUCKLES] we'll be more. And we'll be back. And we'll be back with more from archivist Alison Reynolds after a music set. Live radio. File this set under CD 971.D35.

(SINGING) Turn it on.

CHARLIE BENNETT: You just heard "Hard To Find" by Squeeze and, before that, "Am I Wrong?" by Mikal Cronin. Those were songs about trying to find what's hidden and needs to be seen.

This is Lost in the Stacks. And today's show asks the question, what does the archivist care about? And the archivist that we're asking is Alison Reynolds of the Georgia Tech Library and archives. Alison, one of your roles is instruction archivist. So what do you care about when it comes to instruction in the archives?

Oh, I care about a lot of things. But probably [CHUCKLES] overall, I really care that the students have a memorable experience, memorable in a good way, a positive memorable experience. And I think how I would evaluate that is my ability to work with the instructor, to know the collections, and to be able to find things for them to look at in class that they can connect with but that will also connect with their course goals, connect with their assignments.

So there's a couple ways of doing instruction with archives that I can imagine. And I wonder which is most prominent or if there's something we're forgetting. I mean, do you bring out archival materials that are connected to the class subject? Are you teaching students how to use the archives? What kinds of instruction are happening?

It's a little bit of both. But it's more heavily on looking at collections. So there's a big emphasis on active learning in the archives. So not just to show and tell. I'm not just grabbing things and telling them what they are and explaining. I have things. They're working in groups. I've kind of curated little groupings of materials for each group to read. So they're actually reading the sources. I will write some discussion questions for them to think about.

I would say the adjective is "objectively" terrible.

Are you a fan?

I'm wondering if your instruction ever gets at, why are these things in the archives rather than in the library, where we can just use them when we want?

Sometimes. That probably happens more when they're looking at books, like science fiction or wholesome books and magazines, especially recent magazines and things. But yeah, that doesn't come up as much. I always do an orientation where we talk about the differences between libraries and archives up front and how things in the archives are unique and rare.

Do professors generally have in mind, like, oh, I know this is in the archive. So I'm going to take my class and have them discover it? Or is it you doing outreach to professors and saying, hey, this is in the archives, and then them discovering, oh, so I could bring my class to the archives?

Yeah, it's a little bit of both. But it's probably more heavily me because most of the professors here don't really know what we have in the archives unless they've been here for a very long time and have used it before. So most of the time, I'm doing the research. I talk to them about, what is it that you want your class to learn? What is your topic? What might we have? And then I'm doing the research. And I'm finding the materials. Some will kind of turn everything over to me.

Is library school still OK? I just always want to make sure I'm respecting the archivist side of things.

When you went to library school, were you thinking, I'm going to end up teaching a lot? Did that come on later in your career? When did instruction become a thing you cared about?

No, they didn't do any instruction when I was in library school. There were no classes. The archives where I was working as a student was doing very limited instruction. I think it was still-- it was, like, 2012. Going to date myself a little bit. But when I was in school in 2012, I think it was still the early years of archival instruction as active learning and not just show and tell. So they weren't doing a lot.

So teaching just, it takes it out of me. How do you feel after a day of teaching? ALISON REYNOLDS: [CHUCKLES] I'm with you. I am an introverted person. Although I do like teaching, I do still think I'm introverted. So when the day is over, yeah, I need a break. No matter what time it is, I usually need, like, 20 minutes to just do nothing, get some coffee and just zone out and try not to do anything too strenuous the rest of the day.

What's the best moment that you've had as an instructor? I think everyone that does instruction has a memory of when it connects with a student or you see that something was learned or some goal was achieved. Do you have a memory like that?

Um--

I've put you on the spot.

I wish I could think of a specific example. I guess more broadly, when I'm working with a class. And they will read the materials. And I see that they're really getting it. A lot of times, I'll group these things together. And there's a point that I want them to learn from it. But I don't want to tell them what it is. I want them to figure it out. So when they have figured it out and they're making connections, connecting it to current-day things, that's when I get excited.

Nice.

Yeah, they really get to see how history repeats itself.

Mhm.

So you were listening to Lost in the Stacks. We'll be back to talk more about what an archivist cares about on the left side of the hour.

This is Eira Tansey, troublemaking archivist. You're listening to Lost in the Stacks on WREK Atlanta. I think I'm good.

Classic.

Today's show is called "What Does the Archivist Care About?" And to provide us with a mid-show break, I'd like to read from a Reddit thread--

Oh, Lord.

--that began with the post, "In your opinion, what are the pros and cons of being an archivist versus a librarian?" One comment by the user PollyNot was this. "As a librarian, I have noticed that a difference between an archivist and me is that while I like history, archivists seem to truly love finding and preserving almost anything. A special collections librarian I knew would be so excited to find, say, schematic drawings for old buildings on our campus.

That was "I Can't See You" by Tim Buckley and, before that, "Gamma Rays" by Temples. Those are songs about unseen things that have a big impact.

This is Lost in the Stacks. And today's show is called "What Does the Archivist Care About?" featuring Alison Reynolds, an archivist here at Georgia Tech. Alison, in the past two segments, we addressed your roles as a curator and an instructor. So let's finish with your role as a reference archivist. I want to hone in on that reference thing real quick. What are the other kinds of archivists in the department right now that the reference archivist distinguishes from?

Well, I'm really the point person for reference questions. Other people help out. I mean, we have digital archivists, accessioning archivists, university archivists. And I think everybody can contribute to reference. But we have a portal where we get questions that come in through email. So I will read those and kind of divide them out and assign them to the person that is the best to answer them based on their knowledge or curatorial area.

I feel like we should point out, too, that the Georgia Tech Library has an archives reference desk. And you said you dated yourself by being in library school in 2012. Well, I was in library school in 2002 as a 28-year-old. So I'm dating myself there. But back then, every academic library had a reference desk. And Georgia Tech hasn't had a reference desk, the library hasn't had a reference desk in a long time.

So I mean, it's kind of interesting that archives maintains that reference desk. And it's a thought that is interesting to me. Trying to formulate it into a question is just-- [CHUCKLES] it's like, why does archives have a reference desk? Is it being used in the way that reference desks in libraries weren't used in this? They were kind of pushed to the side or pushed away.

Yeah, it's really more of a reading room with a desk in it, I would say, that an actual reference-- as if I'm being nit-picky with the details.

Because every archives has to have a reading room. Some smaller places, maybe it is just a little closet-sized room. But we have a pretty nice reading room with the renovation. And it's because our collections don't circulate. You can't check them out of the library like you can library materials. And so we always have somebody staffing the desk. People can only use the materials when someone is staffing the desk during our open hours. And it's for security and preservation.

And when we were asking you in pre-show questions, what do you care about, what can we talk about, you mentioned that you wanted to make sure that the archival resources weren't needles in haystacks that the folks were looking for. Is that because this is not like, go up to the stacks and pull a couple books and look around? Like, people have to know what they're looking for. They have to choose a particular thing, right?

Yes, so archival research is quite a bit different from library research. They're huge collections. Some are small, but some are 300 boxes. And so we have our finding aids online, where you can get a very high level description of what's in it. But it's really up to the researcher to look through a box of materials and decide if that's what they need.

And that is reminiscent of library reference work, where we're not there to do someone's job for them. But you're making me think about all the times that in the news, you hear that such and such was discovered lost in an archive somewhere. What's your hot take on that?

ALISON REYNOLDS: We did a whole show about this a couple of years ago, didn't we? Yeah, I mean, I think that's an annoyance for most archivists, is when someone comes in and says they discovered something. Because chances are, someone has seen it and read it before. Most of these things are not described at the item level. So perhaps in the box it doesn't specifically say, you know, letter to George Washington, blah, blah, blah. But it's in there. And somebody probably has seen it.

It just means every single item in the box does not have a line in the finding aid, because you might have 30 letters in a box or a folder. But there would just be a folder that says, correspondence 1950 to 1951. And then the researcher would need to go through that folder and see, OK, is there a correspondence from the person that I'm looking for in this folder?

So we need to just dispel the whole Gandalf smoking in the archives of Middle Earth without any help and no finding aids and discovering something that no one else has ever seen.

[CHUCKLES] No. No smoking in the archives either.

I know. I just like--

Come on, Charlie.

I just like thinking of that, of Gandalf's work. Well, we're almost to the end of the show. So I think now we can give you a chance to answer in whatever way you want, what does the archivist care about?

Oh. I mostly just care about helping people find the material that they need. I love when a student has a project and they are willing to do the work and willing to do the research. And they get excited about it. And I can point them to some collections. And they come in and-- especially if I'm on the reading room desk and they get excited about finding something that is perfect for their project. Same thing with researchers from afar.

Our guest today is Alison Reynolds, research services and instruction archivist at the Georgia Tech Library, manager of the archives reading room and archival instruction programs, and curator for the special collections in science fiction and rare book collections. Alison, thanks for being on the show and for being our first guest in the new WREK studio.

Thank you. It's my pleasure.

This is Lost in the Stacks. And it's time for some music.

And archivist treat-- we're going to file this set under the Finding Aid, the Georgia Tech Archives Finding Aid-- Toombs, Amisano, and Wells Visual Materials DV 006.

Dude.

(SINGING) We were playing in the sand. And you found a little band.

Today's show is called--

Tell them what they just heard, Marlee.

Oh, thank you. I'm in the wrong spot.

No, you're in the right place at the right time, Marlee.

Yes, OK.

This is live radio.

I was like--

All right, you just heard "Look At All The Things" by Crazy Horse and, before that, "Hidden In The Sand" by Tally Hall. And those were songs about uncovered treasures.

And now I can say, today's show was called "What Does the Archivist Care About?" And I think the best way to end is to ask the archivist one last question. How can people connect with the Georgia Tech archives?

Yes, so if you would like to email us, you can visit our website at library.gatech.edu/archives, where we have a contact for a big yellow button at the bottom that says Contact Us.

If you're on campus, you can swing by our archives reading room that's open Monday through Friday 11:00 AM to 4:00 PM. We also have a telephone number for the reading room. It's 404-894-4586.

And with that, let's roll the credits.

Lost in the Stacks is a collaboration between WREK Atlanta and the Georgia Tech Library, written and produced by Charlie Bennett, Fred Rascoe, and Marlee Givens.

Legal counsel and a box of Dragoncon programs from oh, so long ago were provided by the Burrus Intellectual Property Law Group in Atlanta, Georgia.

Special thanks to Alison for being on the show, to all the folks in the Georgia Tech archives for what they do. And thanks, as always, to each and every one of you for listening.

Find us online at lostinthestacks.org. And you can subscribe to our podcast pretty much anywhere you get your audio fix.

On the next Lost in the Stacks, we're going to find out, what is this dark academia thing that people are talking about? Is it fashion? Genre? Or fantasy?

Darkness. Maybe a lot of goth next week.

Ooh.

Time for our last song today. Archivists are an essential part of the culture and scholarship of the present because of their labor, often unseen labor, to preserve things of the past. So let's close with "Of The Past" by Julien Chang right here on Lost in the Stacks. Have a great weekend, everybody.