Book Club: Game Changers Part 2 - Conflicts and Consequences (Heated Rivalry)

Silvan (00:00) Hi, everyone. Welcome to Long Game, a heated rivalry podcast. My name is Sylvan and I'm joined with Declan and we are going to be breaking down the Game Changer book. This is the second part of our review. So we're to be talking about the second half. So chapter 16 towards the end. And we're also going to be thinking about what the character development is, as well as what our general thoughts on the actual whole storyline was. So Declan, let's get into it. Declan (00:30) Yes, because I was very interested to see what you would think of this story whenever you finished it. Because up until like we obviously did part one, we discussed those chapters. from this point onward, this is like your main conflict. This is when the couple are getting tested, where all of these sort of more interesting events within the book begin to happen. So I'm just going to ask you what's your general thought tonight of this book? No, you finished it. Silvan (01:01) Yeah. So now that I finished the whole book, I think it's an okay book. I don't think it was the best book I've read in the genre. It's not suddenly not the worst either. I think it was sort of like a mid-level book for me. I think it sets up the whole heated rivalry universe, game changer universe quite well in establishing Scott and Kip. So I understand the premise for it and I understand the need for it. I like Scott and Kip, but for me, The writing was a bit monotonous. Declan (01:35) Yeah, I would agree with that description. ⁓ I think too much time in this book is spent with these two just having sex all the time and as a result of that it begins to drag and there is this sort of brewing conflict which is sort of always sitting in the background and always in kip sort of POV and he never addresses it until he finally does. Which I understand you know setting things up to get that sort of cathartic moment of like explosion of emotion but I feel like this is dragged out of it too much and this book does seem to have sort of pacing issues in that regard. Silvan (02:18) I'm so glad you mentioned that because literally, and I annotate in the margins for book club. So on page 323, I've literally written, I'm bored of the sex scenes now. They felt repetitive, but also they didn't drive the story forward. And for me, yes, I've not really read a lot of... Declan (02:29) Yeah. Silvan (02:42) MN books with a lot of spicy content in it. Mine have been quite on the tame aside. So this is my first foray into it. But if I'm bored of the sex, like that's saying something. Declan (02:55) Yeah, it's not a good sign. It usually means that you've overused it and you are no longer building it up to get that sort of moment of satisfaction, literally and figuratively. ⁓ But I think that's a result of Rachel Reed being an inexperienced writer at this moment in time of her career anyway. ⁓ Like I did say in part one as well that you need to use your sex scenes sparingly when writing MM romance because if you just flawed your book with it, it does become quite minuteness and it can ruin your pacing entirely. ⁓ And it always needs to sort of have a purpose. It needs to be doing something for the story because if it's not, then it's just superfluous content. It's just fat that needs to be trimmed. And I do feel that in this book and it does impact your enjoyment of it, I think. think it's unavoidable. Silvan (03:50) Yeah. And in fact, what we were talking about just now reminded me, I was listening to another podcast, a really nice, I love listening to this podcast, and they were interviewing an MM author. And they were talking about sort of how they use spicy scenes in their books. And he actually said, if I want the characters to fuck all the time, I'm going to get them to do that. And I thought, yeah, sure. that's that doesn't serve a purpose to me. And I don't know, there was something about what they said that just didn't sit well with me. And maybe I'm more prudish than I thought I was. I thought I was, good Lord, I did not think I was this prudish at all, but I'm not sure I agree with that. I'm not sure I agree with just putting sex scenes for the sake of putting sex scenes in. Declan (04:41) Yeah, because then what you're doing is basically reading fan fiction about whatever topic you're talking about. ⁓ Listen, it's a fun aspect of books, and obviously it's a big draw of modern romance books, especially. ⁓ But if it's not tied to the character or the story, and if it's like, sort of enveloped in meaning, then it's not satisfying. And if it's not satisfying, what's it doing in the book? It's just, I'm just a big fan of using it sparingly. Like you can have books that have lots of sex in it, but if it's emotionally tied into the characters and to the stories, or if it's centered around the very themes of the book, then it can be a very important element and you can have a lot of sex in it as a result of that. But It needs to be balanced out by the emotional weight that is given to the story and to the characters and their sort of relationship developing. So yeah, you can include it if you want, but you better make sure it has a purpose because otherwise your book is just going to be dragged down into a sort of really boring slog that people are really struggling to get through and they will just start skipping pages. And I've heard that from a lot of people. Whenever they're sort of reviewing them in romance books that just aren't quite as good as others. And a lot of them will say I was just skipping pages at some points, which is really bad because they're skipping your writing and your story. Silvan (06:14) Exactly. And in a way I was thinking about comparisons to the TV show naturally. And I thought the sex in the TV show, and I know it's lifted from the Heated Rivalry book, but I felt the sex actually told part of the story, especially when you have like a dom-sab element for Ilya and Shane and what the sex even looks like as they progress into developing feelings for each other. And I got that the sex told Declan (06:41) on Silvan (06:45) part of the story. I'm not sure that I got that with the sex scenes in the game changer book. Declan (06:51) Yeah, I feel like in the beginning, whenever they're first exploring and when they're first experiencing each other, it does have meaning and it does have a purpose. And I think that's why you'll find the earlier scenes are a lot better than the later ones. It's not just Burnoid. It's the fact that those earlier ones give meaning to their relationship. It's showing that they're developing and that they're growing closer, which is why they feel more like they matter. Whereas if you take The later ones, it's like, well, how many times are you guys going to tell each other you love each other by having sex? ⁓ Like at this point, nothing new is happening. You're sort of just doing it repetitively. And, you know, what are we doing with this sort of content at this point? It's just pushing us on because there's a lot of conflict here in the background that no one's dealing with. And yet we're just sitting here having sex all the time. Like there's an interesting element like begging. have attention paid to it and it's just sort of gone ignored and I can't help but feel that again I keep on bringing it up the pacing is badly affected by it. Silvan (08:04) Yeah. And speaking of the conflict, so this is where we get the big conflict, the big fight, right? This is what we're sort of waiting for in a way. You want the conflicts, you get the resolution. What were your opinions on the fight that Kip and Scott have in the second part of the book? Declan (08:16) Okay. Declan (08:26) I think what I find very interesting about the conflict is the sort of way in which it carries actually a lot of emotional weight to the book. I mean, we spend a lot of time building up to it, too much time in my own opinion, but there is something quite, you know, heart wrenching about this sort of conflict between the two of them. It's sort of like the inevitability that this conversation was always going to have to happen. And you're sort of left really anxious for the book that they're going to have it, but it gets dragged out quite a bit. And then when it finally implodes, yes, you do get the catharsis of Kip finally standing up for himself and saying, no, this isn't right and this isn't really going to work if we continue it this way. But you also see Scott come into the realization that Kip is right. He's saying it in a way which is kind of hurtful but you know Scott kind of needs to hear this from Kip. He kind of needs to be brought back down to reality a little bit. He cannot just have a living boyfriend. That's not fair and it contradicts what Scott believes about Kip which is that he should pursue his dreams and do what he wants and he's so capable. Well how is he supposed to achieve or show any of that if you're going to cage him up like a little bird? ⁓ it's just not realistic. So yeah, I really enjoy this conflict. It's organic to their relationship and it's sort of inevitable and it's one that is really satisfying whenever it finally happens. Silvan (10:05) I agree in that the conflict has to happen and there is this buildup to the conflict where you're sort of just waiting for it to happen. And so when it does, I think where I differ my take on it was a little different in that I felt it was really underwhelming. You spend such a long time trying to get to this point and the argument happens around chapter 23 for anyone who's sort of reading long. And when it does happen, it only happens because Kip has withdrawn so much that Scott is almost in his anxious attachment, just really rallying after him and texting him. Are we okay? Are we okay? Please talk to me. And Kip's like, I need space. So, I mean, I don't think Kip is communicating very effectively, but nor is Scott responding well to that type of communication or lack of. And so for me, the argument was like, almost one of the shortest chapters in the book. It's like three or four pages and I'm literally holding in my hands. And I was like, really, really? That's it? Like we spent the whole book to get to this point and that's the argument that you're going to have. It felt very, yeah, I'd say underwhelming, I think for me. Declan (11:27) Yeah, Silvan (11:29) Now, where did you stand on the makeup or the resolution? Declan (11:41) I feel like... almost like someone gave him an electric shock ⁓ to kick jump or kick start his life ⁓ and Scott suddenly goes from zero to a hundred like he goes from I cannot be seen anywhere with you to I want to be seen everywhere with you and I suppose that's kind of exactly what Kip was looking for he was looking to shock Scott into realizing that you can't really continue living your life like this and I don't really agree with the way the KIPP's gone about it. Or the way in which... There is something a little toxic about what happens here. ⁓ There is unintentionally, I think, a very... I'm going to use the word abusive dynamic that's presenting here, where you have one partner who expresses unhappiness and another partner who is completely unaware and uncaring of their needs until that person decides to leave. And then when they do leave, it's all of sudden love bombing. So it is, it's all this stuff. It's no, no, I am going to look after you here and I'm going to make all these changes and I'm going to do all these things for you and look how much I've changed. it's, I was getting flashbacks to like previous relationships where the person tries to reel you back in. ⁓ only for you to realize that this is just going to go back to the way it was again after three months and I don't know if I'm just speaking from a point of view that's specific to me or if it is just in the book that this is something that Scott's doing. It wouldn't surprise me if we went back to, like if this was based on like a real life story, if we went back to them three months later and they were experiencing the same issues and then Scott retreats again. Now obviously this is fantasy and it's fiction and that doesn't happen but the way in which Scott responds to the breakup with Kip Like, it's either done out of complete and utter love and affection, or it's a manipulation. And I can't help but feel it comes across like that. Even though they do have a happy ending, and their relationship's very nice and positive, but it's just got icky vibes. Icky vibes about the way it was sort of resolved. And yeah, that's sort of where I sit with that. Silvan (14:16) I think you're speaking from an experience that a lot of people will resonate with. And I think that's really true to the story as well. I like the icky vibes because for me, when you were talking about when they break up, was like in my notes, I'm like, did they actually break up though? Because they have a fight, Kip walks out and I know I'm looking for a where broken up moment or for that to be communicated. because it isn't communicated. And what happens is Kip goes to the bar, flirts with Kyle, who, can I just say, I don't know, I can't remember the actor who plays Kyle in the TV show, but Kyle is so attractive in the book. Like he goes to Columbia, he's smart. And in a way, Kyle is the one who points out to Kip, wait, you had your first argument and you walked out. And so for me, I'm thinking, did they even break up? They had an argument, they didn't break up really. Like this is bringing back the whole, Ross and Rachel, we were on a break thing from Friends again. And maybe I'm traumatized from that episode, but what happens later is actually Kyle and Kip kiss. Declan (15:36) Mmm, yeah. Silvan (15:37) Where is that memory in the resolution? Nobody goes up to Scott and says, hey, by the way, know, Kip kiss Kyle or the other way around, Kyle really kisses Kip. You know, not, it wasn't mutual, of course, but still they kissed. So this is where I am feeling really torn about the whole argument where they broken up and then the resolution feels really. Declan (15:57) Yeah. Silvan (16:09) uncontained in a way because what actually happens for me in the book is they say, I can't live without you. Yes, same. Let's deal with this later. And it's like, wait, hang on a minute. So your resolution is let's deal with this later. Declan (16:25) Yeah, which speaks a lot to what I was saying about like toxic relationships. That's a better word than abusive. Toxic relationship where you break up over a problem, you love bomb each other or one love bomb the other and then you pull it back again and you just repeat the cycle over and over and over again. I can't help but feel that that's the destiny of this relationship until obviously Scott makes the public declaration of his love in front of everybody. But So many of the ways in which the two of them are dealing with this conflict are just really wrong. ⁓ Kip is not being direct, he's not communicating and as a result of that things get confused and Scott doesn't understand. Scott ⁓ needs to like wake up and smell the flowers like you cannot just abandon your partner for months at a time or days at a time, weeks at a time, neglect them in pursuit of your career. you're either committed to someone or you're not, you bring them along on the journey or you don't. And it's no wonder that Kip feels so left behind. He feels so lost and he feels like he's just this plaything that is just there to make Scott happy rather than to pursue happiness as a couple. And I can understand him being like that. And I also understand that Kip is quite young and so he's not always going to sort of process things in a mature way. Like a more mature person would have just contacted Scott and said, listen, This is not working for me. I cannot just be someone who stays at home waiting for you to get back. You are distant. You're not paying any attention to me. ⁓ And if you want to make a relationship work, you need to put the effort in. And yeah, he doesn't communicate that in an effective way. So what you end up with is this sort of blow up where their relationship is just sort of tossing the trash can very fast and Kip decides that the mature thing to do then is go and flirt with another guy. ⁓ He doesn't mean to kiss Kyle but he sort of does let it happen as well. And the whole thing is just...ugh. It gets that sort of vibe. It's like, of you are sort of like dealing with this in like a halfway decent way and I feel like we're just going to slap each other together because you're in love and we'll just work out the rest. Which again, like you said, that's not Resolving the problem? Like... Yeah. Mmm. I don't know. Silvan (18:59) So my question is then did Kip cheat on Scott? because no one's talking about it in the book and no one's talking about it online. I've not seen any discourse about this, which is why it shocked me when I read it in the book. And I get that it's probably like a pack or whatever and different people have different barometers of whether that's cheating or not. And some people have a high barometer and lower and that's fine. There's no judgment in that, but no one's talking about if Kip cheated on Scott because They're so in love and they make such a lovely couple and they do, they absolutely do. But how honest is this to have a resolution and have that lingering? Declan (19:49) I think that there is a reason why this isn't in the show. And I think it's because, he cheated. He cheated on his boyfriend. He literally put himself in a position where he was flirting with an R guy. He didn't pull away. He didn't move away. He just let it happen. And knowing that he deliberately put himself in that position, there's only so much, you know, grace you can extend, kept in that situation. ⁓ I don't have arguments with my partner and then decide to go to a gay bar, flirt with a bartender and then let him kiss me. That is cheating. And I think it's another element of why people don't quite like this couple as much as the other ones in this series. ⁓ Because they're very messy and not in like a fun, you know, literary way where, you know, my God, they're just so messy for each other and it's just great and they're so in love and whatever. A lot of people will refuse to read an MN romance where there's cheating. Which is so funny because you can read dark romance where basically the person is a stalker, they have like BDSM vibes going on, it's mental, there's lots of crazy very dark content and everyone will be perfectly fine with it but if you put cheating in one of these books people will go crazy. Like hated it, I didn't like that, I can't believe you that, you betrayed the love. Because you're not trying to ultimately get a story that leaves you dissatisfied or despondent about love, you're trying to get the opposite. And so this will definitely rub people up the wrong way. And it's also not a good reflection of Kip's character. It doesn't feel like something Kip would do. And so there's like an incongruence there as well. I think that whole thing is just something that should have been out of the drafts. ⁓ should not have been a thing. Because it doesn't work in a story that's trying to keep it as simple as this. Silvan (21:55) Yeah, I agree. I agree that the writing in this doesn't seem up to par in that they use the kiss as a realization, I want to be with Scott kind of thing. And so for me, it feels quite lazy in a way. That's a lazy way to resolve conflict to get a realization. But also one thing you said there was Kip lets it happen. Now, And it is unlike Kip, I agree. But what's not unlike Kip is that Kip lets everything happen to him. Good Lord. I mean, he becomes basically a trad wife for Scott. Scott, that's what Scott wants anyway. Kip is more than happy to sort of think, well, what if I just stayed at home? What if I let him pay for stuff? What if, and ultimately Kip doesn't go along with that, but Kip just is very. Declan (22:41) Mm-hmm. Silvan (22:53) passive in that way, and not in a sexual way, but in a, he allows things to happen to him. There's no agency sometimes. And I think that's what irritates me about Kip. And that's what irritates me about Kip allowing someone else to kiss him. Declan (23:10) Yes, and you hit the nail on the head of why I gave this book a low rating when I first read it. Kip is a passive character. Everything happens to him and he is not active about anything in his life, even his own education. It's not him that's pushing himself to better himself. It's his friends and his family. He is completely happy to just be swept along by other people's ideas. And this is fine when he's with Scott. because he gets swept up in the romance of it, of the first love, of all this wonderful feeling. And he only really wakes up whenever Scott withdraws it. And it's only when he's like, I'm not getting this anymore, so why would I stay here? It almost feels like it's ultimately not even about Kip deciding to do better for himself. It's that the thing that he was giving himself up for is now being withdrawn because Scott's not here. So it's not a great reflection on him as a character you could say but yeah I definitely take your point. I think you've hit something there that I hit upon in my first read of this which is that Kip is far too passive as a protagonist and he doesn't feel like he has his own sort of agency in the story he just sort of goes along with whatever characters want for him. Silvan (24:36) Exactly. And in a way, you know, the comparison to Elena moving to the West Coast, even Maria moves on from strawberry. She goes to Starbucks. Like it's that comparison that almost feels like a compels kit. Like, wait, everyone's moving on with their lives. What have I been doing? I've just been fucking Scott Hunter for the past three or four weeks. Declan (25:02) Yeah, there is a real lack of motivation for Kip that is bothering him because all these people, like you said, like you can't help but compare him because, you know, Rachel Reid has made it very clear that these are his peers. are, he is, you know, he is in their social circle. They're achieving all these things and literally Scott and his partner, his counterpart is literally winning. He's on a winning streak like He is achieving his dreams. He's going to reach his goal. He's going to win the cup. so Kip is just sort of sitting at home, fiddling his problems, nothing but waiting on an interview result to come back for like 90 % of the book. That's not interesting. That's boring. And it's not, again, good for pacing. So I feel like there's this book is relatively short, but it feels longer than it actually is because there's just not enough happening. And I noticed it more preemptively now in this reread because I've read the other books and the pacing is much better in those and the characters are doing much more and dealing with a lot more and they're more layered and more complex, which is obviously makes sense. This book came before all of them. Rachel Reed has progressed as a writer, but I cannot help but go back and think ⁓ this book is just... Yeah, there are better decisions to be made here. Silvan (26:38) I completely agree. And in a way, I think where it does get better is where, you know, you have the chapters where Scott comes out to his teammates and then you have Scott going to Kip's house and they end up having dinner and those chapters very much mirror Now, bear in mind, I've not read the Heated Rivalry book, so I don't know if that actually happens in the book or not, but it definitely happens in the TV show. But where Scott goes to Kip's house and has dinner with them very much mirrored that season six episode with Ilya and Shane. Declan (27:18) Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I actually enjoyed those elements of the book quite a lot. I like when Scott finally starts to make moves and that he is just sort of thrown caution to the wind at this point. He almost lost this man. He's not taking this chance again. He is going to fully commit himself. He's going to build himself up to coming out publicly. But in the meantime, he's going to do it in lots of these little ways that matter very deeply to Kip. And I think him showing up at the dinner as well was such a sweet moment. And for him to sort of take the lead in how they identify, know, like, I'm his boyfriend. Like he doesn't need Kip to sort of, you know, weed it out of him to give him the little bit. He just offers it all. And he's like, yeah, I'm with him and with your son. It's great. And that's cathartic. That's that's really. it's real feel good stuff so it is and I really like that element of it and it makes me really enjoy Scott's character because it just feels like he just needed the push and we might not have liked the way the push came but it definitely makes him way more proactive ⁓ as a character as well and we are finally taking the reins of the story and we're making things happen. Things are progressing. I feel like it would have been better had we been pacing this stuff out, free out the story to have big milestones like this. sort of give an assistance to the pacing. So like, let's have Scott, you know, introduce himself to Kip's parents, like towards the sort of near near the conflict point. And let's say let's have him overwhelmed, overwhelmed by the idea of it. He's still doing it out of a place of love. He's still doing it for Kip, but it causes him to want to withdraw a bit because he's afraid of pushing it further. Like he's not ready to push it further. Like that would have created moment of catharsis for the reader before getting into the drama of the breakup and then even more catharsis after they get back together. yeah, just a little opinion of mine. Silvan (29:41) I so agree and I would have been a lot more invested in that story because by then, you know, the family is not involved, but the family is aware there's this highest stakes because right up until they're sort of their argument, I'm to call it, nobody apart from Milena really knows there's there's nothing to lose really. And so having Kip. Exactly, there's nothing to lose. And so having. Declan (30:03) Yeah, nothing's been bought. Silvan (30:10) Scott, in your pacing of events, meet the family, get more involved, means a lot more now because there's emotional weight. Declan (30:23) Yeah, and like, I need to preface, I'm not a writer. It's very easy to look from the outside and give your opinion on someone else's art, which is why I always give sort of props to writers, particularly newer ones, and just make it clear that, you know, anything that they have written is better than anything I have because I've written nothing. So what I am giving opinions that ⁓ mean that I don't necessarily enjoy everything about a book or a piece of content that I'm consuming. I do still have a lot of respect for writers and what they're doing. I just need to make that clear because I'm aware that I think the general consensus for me and you is that we didn't really enjoy this book all that much. We liked a lot of elements of it, but we weren't really in love with it. Silvan (31:19) And I almost feel like we should have had this disclaimer at the top of the episode before we started bashing this book. But you're right. There is a lot to be said about writing a book rather than critiquing a book. But one of the things I wanted to ask about and one of the themes that comes up in this book is that Scott is very much coming out for Kim. And I think that's where my grievances also lie in that for me, I've always believed that you don't come out for somebody else. You come out for yourself because at the end of the day, you are your own person. And as good intentions as somebody else might have, you don't know if they're going to stay. And so you need to be okay in yourself to come out for that reason alone rather than for somebody else. And I wondered what your thoughts on that were. Declan (32:16) I would tend to agree with you. ⁓ I do think that it's very important that you do these things in your life for the right reasons whenever you're ready and when you're equipped to deal with it. Sometimes things can be like catalysts for wanting to come out, ⁓ such as maybe meeting the right person is a big one. And in a lot of cases, It is about just getting a new perspective on your life. Like what do want your life to be? It can be something much more wonderful than what it currently is. you know, spending time with someone that you're romantically involved in, in a way that becomes meaningful, can make you reconsider, you know, what you're willing to risk. Now, in terms of restricting someone to come out, whenever you're in a sort of like secret relationship that I definitely don't agree with. Especially if that person's life would massively suffer as a consequence of it. At that point, you know, someone needs you need to prepare for that. Like you need to be ready for that. You need to feel secure in yourself to make a decision like that. And so. While I do. think that people should come out for themselves. I think sometimes when you get into a relationship with somebody like this, it can give you new perspective on your life that makes you want to come out, not just for them but for you too, so that you can try, try at finding love in a meaningful way that doesn't need to be kept in the shadows, can be in the sunlight. Silvan (34:08) Yeah, I can see your perspective and I see where you're coming from. I think I'm just chronically single and I do things way too independently. So there is no way I would have come out for another man. Honestly, but I can, I can see your point and I don't want it to feel judgmental to other people who might've come up for the same reasons Scott did. So yeah, I backtrack a little fair enough. Now for me, Declan (34:31) Yeah, mean, everybody is unique in a sense. your personality will very much dictate what sort of pushes you to want to come out. So it's a very unique experience to everybody, I think. And I don't think anyone ever does it the one same way. Like, mine was funny and I was welcome. opened arms and that was great. But a lot of people will have a completely different experience and different families and stuff. So. When you think about a person's sort of past and how they've been molded by their experiences, then I suppose there's no real right answer for anybody. It's just whatever happens, you suit your circumstances and your own personality. Yeah, that's interesting though. Silvan (35:19) Yeah, and we definitely speak about sort of coming out a little bit more in one of our previous episodes. So do check that out because we go into a whole deep dive into that. I think it's where we talk about the TV show episode six, part three. Now, coming back to Game Changer, I think what really redeemed the whole story for me was the epilogue. For me, the epilogue really saved the whole story and left me sort of kicking my feet under the table. It gave me those kinds of like giggly kind of vibes. And you see here Scott and Kip and his teammates at the gay club. And Scott is finally able just to dance with Kip openly, freely, without prejudice and in a safe space. And this is why we've talked about, you know, gay bars and gay clubs being safe spaces. And this is exactly the reason why. So for me, this epilogue really just saved it. What were your thoughts on having Ilya come back into the epilogue? Declan (36:28) Well, it's obvious that this is setting him up as sort of next character study for this. He's going to be in one of the next books and it drops that little hint, that little idea that wait a minute, what are you doing here? And it's very tongue in cheek. I like that element of it. ⁓ I actually really, really, really like book Ilya. And the more I like reread over what I've sort of read before I just grow to like his character even more and I like that this is such a Such a very cute moment because Ilya tends to pop in and out of these stories quite often And he's always there for like a little cameo And so I like that this is sort of first one and the first one is a hint at the fact that he himself might be something not always straight, so I think it's a great setup. It is a really nice introduction to who the next couple is going to be. And yeah, I just thought it was a nice little cameo and it's a start of sort of like a trend of him sort of appearing in and out of people's stories throughout the series. Silvan (37:38) That's interesting. So I'm looking forward to seeing how he pops up in everyone else's story. So my question to you is when we were talking about the physical differences between some of the characters in the book and the TV show, I wanted to ask if you could recast the TV show according to the book characteristics, who would you have casted for these characters? Declan (38:07) Oooookayyyy Silvan (38:07) Now that we don't love Francois and Robbie, we love them. Let me just preface that. Declan (38:14) So we're looking for a very good looking, tall, muscular, blonde guy for Scott, who's relatively young. maybe, ⁓ no, this is hard. This is a difficult question. ⁓ I think Kip could be like, who's the guy who plays Hannah Montana's boyfriend towards the end of the series and he has brown hair. I think his name's like Riley or something. I can't remember the actor's name but he swings into my head for some reason. ⁓ Anyone who is cultured like I am will know who I'm talking about. And then the blonde guy. ⁓ He would play a good Scott. Nice, kind face. Very sweet. ⁓ but also very muscular and handsome. ⁓ Maybe like young Henry Cavill with his hair dyed blonde. Like that would be a nice one. Silvan (39:22) Henry Cavill from the Tudors. Declan (39:27) Henry Cavill from The Count of Monte Cristo. Silvan (39:33) Ooh, interesting. I haven't seen that one, but I'm getting the vibe. See, for me, I think they really nailed Kip's casting. Like it's exactly who I would have imagined. But if I had to cast a blonde Scott, I would have gone for Nicholas Galatine from Red, White and Royal Blue. That's who I pictured when I saw Scott in the book. Declan (39:45) Yeah. that's actually a really good one. Yeah, I wish I had a photo that time. Silvan (39:59) And I know it's another queer love story, if, yeah, but if you see him in He-Man now, the guy is jacked. That is one of the movies I'm waiting for this summer. ⁓ But a little bit of red, white and royal blue Nicholas with the bulk of He-Man. Declan (40:17) Mmm, yeah, I think that would work. I like that. Silvan (40:23) Or I just have a crush on Nicholas Gadot's scene, probably. Declan (40:26) But we're gonna wrap it up there. So when I tend to give a star rating with my books, I would give this one a 3.25 out of 5. That's my own personal rating. And honestly, it goes up and down depending on my mood. But if you were to give this book a rating, what would you give it? Silvan (40:49) I didn't know we could give points of a point. That changes things. I think I would give it a three. Declan (41:01) I think that's fair. I think that's fair. Yeah, especially from what we discussed. Yeah, I think that's okay. Yeah. I mean, I will say that this is probably the worst written of the books. I don't think we're ever really gonna be dropping down to freeze anymore in this series. ⁓ Speaking from experience of reading them all. But yeah, I really enjoyed reviewing this with you. This was really different for me. I hope you guys as well as the listeners had a really great time sort of hearing our thoughts about it. What did you think as well about the book? know let us know your thoughts and your feelings around it. Do you disagree with us and Sylvan? Do you think this book is the best thing since sliced bread or do you sort of agree with us that there are sort of issues within it that could have been sort of handled a little differently? But guys thank you so much for listening. Also check out our book club as well. It's the Long Game Podcast Book Club. We are going through each of the books. We're reading sort of half a book a week and then just sort of having discussions and sort of giving ideas and thoughts about what we generally thought about the books and everything about them. So yeah, check that out. Have a look. It's all on Fable. And don't forget to like, share and subscribe for this video as well. But we'll catch you next time.