¶ Healthy Gastronomy
As a French chef , I used to use a lot of butter and cream in my old restaurants , but now I have to work with different fat instead of butter .
Hello again and welcome to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast . I'm Peter Bowes . This is where we explore the science and stories behind human longevity .
This episode is brought to you in association with Clinique La Prairie , the award-winning spa clinic and pioneering health and wellness destination nestled on the shores of Lake Geneva and Montreux , switzerland . Combining preventative medicine with bespoke lifestyle and nutrition plans , clinique La Prairie offers a holistic approach to living fuller , healthier and longer lives .
You feeling hungry . Well , how easy is it to prepare food that's tasty , satisfying and also good for our long-term health ? A Clinique La Prairie in Montreux , switzerland , the restaurant called Seeds does just that . It has a plant-based menu . Some animal protein is served at lunchtime .
The meals have three courses , the dishes are modestly sized , and alcohol and coffee are discouraged . In this episode , we meet the chef , David Alessandria , whose job it is to design the dishes that put our well-being first . David Alessandria , welcome to the Live , long and Master Aging podcast . Thank you , peter . Thank you for inviting us into your restaurant .
Yes . Your kitchen as well . How big a challenge is it for you to keep the dishes so healthy , with our well-being in mind ?
The hardest thing is to adapt gastronomy basically with all the standards of dietetics in the clinic . It was really the hardest part for me to adapt myself with my basic brand about gastronomy . what is gastronomy ?
And just tell us a little bit , then , about your background , what you've come from to do this job , what's your career been like so far ?
So I started basically in a gastrinx school in France at 16 years old . After my four years in this school , with my bachelor , i started to work in Michelin Star in Luxembourg , in Belgium . Then I came back in my city .
I was born in Chambéry , in Savoie , and after that I was lucky , i started to work in Switzerland in also the famous EHL school in Lausanne , then in Glion , so Glion is just up to Montreux , up to La Prairie . And after these 10 years in Switzerland I like to change , basically to change my mind .
My wife is vegan , my children are vegetarian , so I think about what I can do better in gastronomy And I think in a clinic we do better .
So your wife and your children have particular culinary needs . What about you ? Do you have any particular regimes that you follow ?
Not at all , but I reduce a lot the animal proteins since , basically , i started here a bit earlier , so since two years basically . Now I eat , i think , two times a week , meat and that's it , no more , but eggs every day , because we need protein , this energy , and I love eggs . I've got some chickens at home , so it's good Right .
Oh , that's good , You've got your own fresh eggs . Yes , let's talk about meat , then , because meat is key for a lot of people in terms of reduction of , especially red meat . Some people prefer , and myself included , more fish than red meat . Yes , what is the theory behind that ?
As a chef , clearly , you like serving a wide range of foods , but why do you restrict the amount of red meat that you ?
serve Anti-inflammatory . This type of protein gives inflammation . If you remove that , it's better for your health . Chicken is okay , but again , not every day , and we do it at a clinic just for lunch meat protein and then in the evening it's only vegan . We have to remove this bad habit , also for the planet .
I'm curious about the challenge that you face as a chef to still make food that is very , very tasty and that people want to eat and that satisfies people , that they feel as if they've had enough food for their needs . Where do you start when you're planning a menu in terms of balancing protein , animal protein and protein that we can get from vegetables ?
First of all we have to follow the season . This is the most important to get the best product at the best moment . This is the first thing . Then to extract the taste , the flavor of each product , we make a lot of extraction concentration . Basically we do the same process for meat , but with vegetables .
You can make a nice stock with celery , carrots or beetroot And the concentration will be a bit similar as a beet juice . Basically The looking , not the taste of course , but the looking . And this way you can have a lot of palate , like a painter to make a new taste and new creation .
And I'm curious does the variety of food that you serve on a plate ? does that have any bearing on how satisfied someone feels at the end of the meal ? Because I've noticed eating your meals all week , all being delicious , i'm satisfied . Yes , Well that's the point . I'm very satisfied with relatively small helpings . Yes . Is there a secret to achieving that ?
No , there is no secret , But I think the appearance is really important And you forget the vegan part and the vegetarian part . if it's appealing like that , That's my opinion And I think it works . So this is one of the secrets if you can tell that's a secret . But then the taste is really important of course Do you use much dairy in your cooking .
No , also , we remove all the dairy products . As a French chef , i used to use a lot of butter and cream in my old restaurant , but now I have to work with different fat instead of butter . But again , we reduce a lot the quantity of fat inside and we do only with concentration . So animal protein dairy products are not allowed in my kitchen .
This must have been quite a learning process for you . Yes , Coming from your background as you say , as a chef of French food Yes , it's quite a change , isn't it ?
It's a big change , also with gluten In pastry . if you remove the gluten , it's really hard to make recipes . We don't speak about sugar . It's the hardest part to make desserts , to make sorbet . That's why we have to take the best product at the best moment .
If you make a mango sorbet , if you do it at the best moment in January , february , the sorbet will be perfect because the percentage of fructose into the mango is at the best point . So if you do it in summer , it will be horrible because it's under season .
I'm glad you mentioned sugar , because I wanted to get on to sugar Because I think it is for many people the most difficult thing , maybe with the exception of alcohol or coffee , but sugar is one of the most difficult things to give up .
And not only is it difficult to give up because of that sweet taste that people like , but a lack of knowledge of how to take sugar out of your diet . Many people feel as if it is there and it has to be there , it has to be part of the recipe And it's actually quite difficult to make tasty food without that sweet taste .
We did a taste a few months ago to make just a crème caramel , but without caramel , without sugar , and of course the taste is horrible , totally horrible , because you use almond milk , no sugar , but we adapt ourselves and we make basically a caramel with that or prune , and at the end you can get the sugar just from the fruits or vegetables also , but we don't
add sugar , we just use natural sugar . If you make a compote with apples , you can get some sugar also With pears . There are a lot of things .
And of course , not all fruits and vegetables are equal , for example , orange juice is actually quite high in sugar , whereas carrot juice may be slightly less and the vegetable juice even less . So you've got to be careful , haven't you ?
in terms of , let's say , breakfast time , the balancing , between everything , And normally I'm not allowed to add fruit also in the starter , for example . So sometimes I just put some touch of fruits You get for lunch some slices of orange with the scallops But just to add a touch of it to enhance the flavor also , but not to add sugar .
¶ Healthy Eating and Sustainable Food Choices
Let's talk about the stomach , which , ultimately , is what all of this is about . We all know now , and I think we're becoming increasingly familiar with the idea , that our stomach is full of bacteria . It's full of little bugs that are vitally important for our metabolism and general well-being . As a chef , do you think about that ?
Is that relevant to you designing a menu ?
Not before CLP , but now . yes , i think about it . It's like a car , basically , If you don't put benzene inside , it doesn't work . So it's the same for us . You have to get the good product for your health . It's not only red meat . I've got all the animals with four legs this type of protein , so pork , beef , veal , all this type of meat .
So I remove totally meat at home To do the same for me and for my last children . he loves meat , but only chicken . we give only chickens White meat . it's easier to digest .
And what about fish ? You serve quite a lot of fish in this restaurant .
I think it's just a question of protein .
Where do you get your fish from ? Because that's significant , isn't it ? Especially if you're serving salmon , for example ? Yes , whether it's freshwater salmon , depending on the location that the salmon has grown in . So that can have an impact on how healthy it is .
Yes we again . We work with the season . You tried the mackerel this week . I did Yes , so the mackerel is the best season . April , may is the best season . After that the sea becomes the hottest And the quality of the fish will be bad . So for the mackerel it's a poor fish But by definition it's full of good things for health .
It's a blue fish , like tuna , and the taste is amazing . So that's how we get it . We used to work also with the fish from the lake , from Geneva Lake , but it's become less and less because of the pollution and the weather . And for the salmon you spoke , it comes from not far away from Switzerland , from a farm .
So we do our best to take local products , but the sea is not close to here . So of course for the sea fish and mollusk and crustacea we have to work with Brittany .
Let me ask you more generally about your observations of people's dietary needs and tastes and how they are evolving . Clearly you've evolved as a chef from your previous life cooking French food to what you do now .
What are your observations more generally when you get diners in your restaurant with particular needs and desires and maybe sometimes you can't provide them with what they have traditionally eaten because of the healthy nature of the food that you're serving ? But , are you seeing any ?
trends . Vegan is a trend by definition , but we have to , i think , go ahead that and think about the future for our children , the global impact on the environment , and then it will be the same for us . Basically , when you explain the thing to the people , they understand globally why and the target and the goal of it . It's why people come to SELPE .
I think It's a way of life , it's a passion . If you're passionate about what you're doing , it becomes easier . So feed ourselves is really important . It's three times a day minimum . So if you do it better , that's better for you .
And what do you think about the state of the world in terms of food that is provided for people now ? clearly , different countries , some nations and peoples of nations have a suffering from hunger at the moment , the kind of food that people eat in the western worlds .
When you look at most diets of most people , which can lead to ill health , do you see things getting worse or getting better ?
Sometimes I pray to get better . But I'm not sure about the industrial part . If you see every big big brand make vegan food but if you check the recipes in it it's horrible . A lot of sorbet , a lot of sugar inside . So it's vegan but it's really bad for the health .
So if we speak about vegan steak , it's better to do it by itself , with chickpeas or with quinoa or something else , but do it by itself it's better than by the market . So industrial part is for me , the enemies about health . That's again my personal opinion .
So what you're talking about is essentially processed vegan or vegetarian food that is , in some cases , made to look like meat . It's made to look like sausage or a burger .
This is a trend , i think . If I take the example of my wife , three weeks ago she bought a vegan steak with the looking of a steak but when she tried it she just threw it out because the texture remained her the texture of the meat , and for her it's impossible to eat . So that's for me a trend to copy copycat and make similar products .
If you don't eat meat , you can't eat vegan sausage It sounds wrong , and processed food more generally is often cited as one of the great ills of our time that people are eating far too much processed food as opposed to the fresh food that you serve . Is that ? a big problem , do you think ?
We have to take time to cook . Basically , if you just buy processed food , you don't think about you . Basically , that's sure . We have to remove a bit the mobile phone , the application , and take 30 minutes to just to cook . It's not too long . At the end The longest thing is to , if you think about in advance , you can prepare the menu for the whole week .
Basically , you make two times the market and then you cook here . 30 minutes a day is enough .
Let's get some tips from you , then , in terms of someone who's leading a very busy lifestyle , who wants to plan those meals for the week And clearly at their disposal they don't have the range of foods that you have in a restaurant like this , but what advice would you give to someone who wants to eat as healthy as they can , perhaps someone who's even eaten
in a restaurant like this , which is focused on well-being , and want to take that with them as they go home around the world ? What sort of tips could you ? give them .
I usually ask for the recipes . so I give the technical sheet of the recipes And when they start to read they say , but I can't do this at home . But I say , yes , you follow , you remember what you tried and just practice . Practice is the best thing . If you practice , you won't fail . It's the same for me . I practice a lot .
You can be a better father every day because of your practicing . So that's the same for the healthy cooking .
Can you give me a glimpse into your lifestyle ? Clearly , you've learned a lot through moving into this area of cooking , but when you're at home , when you're preparing food and planning the week , do you have a routine ?
Yes , every Sunday we make a nice omelet because after three , four days of eggs , basically my wife says stop , stop the eggs , that's enough . So we basically don't eat eggs on Friday and Saturday , but then on Sunday we make a big omelet . So usually you make a nice salad with some nuts , some lemon . I love lemon also inside .
That's the thing we do , basically , not weekly , but almost almost .
And there is a good dish that you could suggest that could be made , say , on a Sunday or on a weekend , but it's going to last a few days . That if someone wants to be economic with their time and very little time during the week , what would you ?
suggest You can make a nice chickpeas couscous style , basically without lamb of course , and then , if you've got some rest , you can just mix it to make a hummus . It's a way to optimize basically your time and your money , because you make your own product and then you can use it for two or three days easily .
Chickpeas is one of the best for that , one of the best You've got . edamame you've got . all the beans also are really nice . And then to digest it easily , the tips or advice is to leave them 24 hours in the water , first of all to remove the lectin . The lectin gives the bad parts in your digestion .
So 24 hours of just in the water , we remove the lectin . And the second tip is , if you can cook it in a high pressure , you remove 99% of the lectin and this way the digestion will be perfect . Most of the time for the guests here is that after one day of chickpeas , one day of beans , one day of edamame , we have to stop .
my stomach is crying , that's normal . But at home , cook it with high pressure , without lectin , it will be perfect .
While I've been here , i've talked to quite a few of the other experts in different areas about the subject of sleep and how food affects our sleep . What are your experiences in terms of the kinds of food that we eat later in the day and how they affect our sleep ?
The vegan one . I think it's due to the meat protein , the animal protein . That's why we serve only vegan protein in the evening . We make the appearance nicely and pretty , I think . You do , yes , yes , it always looks pretty , thank you .
But so you've put some thought into the fact that two or three hours later , people are going to try to go to sleep . Yes , That's interesting . So , as you say , it's vegan protein as opposed to animal protein which could keep us awake longer .
I think so Not too heavy , of course . That's it , i think .
So we've talked a lot about food .
¶ Healthy Drink Alternatives and Longevity
What about drink ? You serve some interesting , you know , alcohol . No , alcohol People here It's forbidden . Yes , it's forbidden . So what sort of alternatives have you come up with ?
We make kombucha , we make fermented drinks and we use it also in the kitchen , in the vinaigrette , in the recipes , in the reduction everything . What's the science behind that ? The science is just to transform . For the kombucha you transform the tea Basically . We make a black tea With the scooby .
Scooby is a combination of bacteria and yeast And you transform the sugar from the tea into gas carbonic . So basically it becomes a bit sparkly and it's a probiotic . It's really good for the stomach and for digestion . So we do our own kombucha in the kitchen .
Let me ask you in closing everything here is focused on longevity . It's focused on living a long , healthy life , with the emphasis on healthy From your own perspective . Is that something you think about ? Do you have aspirations for the future in terms of your own personal health , And is there something that you do every day with that ? in mind .
I try my best to practice every day , but bad habits is the same for everybody . I think when , when guests leave the CLP after a week or two weeks , the bad habits , the bad habits come back . We have to fight every day with our devil .
I think So I try my best to practice at home with my wife , with my children , with my parents also to live a better life , of course , and to live longer cross fingers again , we never know , we never know , we never know .
But it's a great aspiration . David , it's been really good talking to you . Thank you so much and thank you for the wonderful food this week . Thank you , peter , that's a pleasure .