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right from where you are. This is Andrew from the Scary Mysteries podcast where every single week we dive into insane and creepy true crime compilations on Mondays and on Wednesdays we have our twisted news episodes. where we get you up to speed on the most terrifying and strange news stories currently happening all around the world. We're covering the topics you want to hear about. Missing persons, killers, UFOs, and more.
Best of all, we don't waste your time with any fluff or fillers, just stray to the true crime details. So go check out the Scary Mysteries podcast, and I'll see you there. Thank you for joining us on LISC, Long Island Serial Killer, and this part two of our Q&A episode. So if you happen to skip over part one, you might want to go back and start there.
And we, of course, appreciate those who sent in the many questions over the past few weeks. Now, although we covered these in part one of the episode, we still want to revisit a couple of quick things. First, we do not claim to be experts or doctors, lawyers or law enforcement. But we do know the list world well, and we did our best with these responses, so we do hope they bring some clarity to the issues or questions some of you have had about the case. And, as always...
To keep attention on the victims and this case, please subscribe, rate, and review as it helps others find the podcast. Now let's jump in. Here's part two of our Q&A episode. All right, next question from Jacqueline. Shannon's boyfriend admittedly became physical during their relationship. Could it be possible that her hyoid bone was damaged by him?
There might be an x-ray on her neck when he broke her jaw, which would show the state of the hyoid bone prior to her disappearance. So I am obviously not a medical examiner or a doctor, but... I have considered this before. Chris, what do you think? So the hyoid bone is tough to say, one. Two, it's in your neck and there are two horns on it.
They're often damaged when you are choked. If you are choked to death, they can tell that by these these little horns. They're called horns on the hyoid bone. The medical examiner examined Shannon's body and didn't find much. And then the family had this famous medical examiner, Dr. Baden, do a second autopsy. And he's the one who said there seemed to be evidence that there was damage to the hyoid bone.
Shannon's hired brain, which could mean strangulation. So the question is, could that damage have been done from the punch she took from the boyfriend? Like Shannon said, we're not doctors. I don't know. I don't think that seems possible, but we don't know. That is a good question for a medical examiner, a doctor, if that could ever happen from that sort of damage.
But there's also the theory that this damage to these small horns on the hyoid bone could have been due to Shannon being in the elements for 18 months and animal activity because they will... affect the bones and the skeletons. So there's a few theories there, but that's where I land without it. Not sure. I don't think so. So Chris, where exactly is the hyoid bone?
I think it's right under the chin, like right behind the chin. And it's kind of like a U-shaped bone right behind the chin. And then the hooks that Chris is talking about come out under. Is that right? Yeah. So it's right behind your chin. It's high throat. Yeah. So again, we're not doctors or medical examiners, but. It definitely would be a question for one of them because I mean, as a layperson, I can see like if you get your jaw broken that your hyoid bone could potentially be damaged.
Without speaking to him, I don't know what Michael Baden saw that made him conclude that definitively. According to him, from what I understand is that there was damage to these horns on this bone. But Jacqueline brings up this question, could it have been from that punch that Shannon took during this domestic dispute, abuse? And that's a good question. That is for a doctor. I've never heard of that, but it's an interesting question.
Next question. Was Brewer ever asked where they went for those 15 to 20 minutes? Shannon, why don't you run with us? Okay, so just as a reminder, Shannon, while she was with Joseph Brewer... asked Pac to run out and get some playing cards, which is sort of a typical code for keep the clock running. I'm trying to extend the party, basically. So Pac said no.
And claims that then Shannon and Joseph Brewer left for what he estimated to be approximately 15 or 20 minutes, at which point they came back. So when... Brewer was asked about this in his deposition with John Ray. He said no comment. So he wouldn't really respond to anyone's. formal questioning about where they went, what they did, anything really, according to the deposition. And when they started finding the bodies
They really started looking harder. And we talked about this in episode five, I believe, where they really started looking closer at Brewer and Pack. They really interviewed him. So we don't know what SCPD asked Brewer. in regards to this 15 or 20 minutes or if he even fessed up to it. And something to point out too is this 15 to 20 minutes is all based on Pac's story that supposedly they left.
This is based on PAC. And the reason it's a big question is 15 to 20 minutes to go get these items from a store, if that's where they supposedly went, it would take longer than that. I've been there, you know, to drive out, go across the bridge, two bridges really into the main part of Long Island takes at least a half an hour, if not longer. So where did they go in 15?
to 20 minutes. Did they go somewhere in the neighborhood to get drugs? That's a theory. And just one other small note is where Brewer's house sits. He sits just on the backside of the exit road that leads to the main highway.
And Brewer was facing in towards this exit road, which there's some thicket and bramble, but he would see those lights pass. And he never talks about seeing lights pass, like if they would have left the neighborhood. So did they stay somewhere in the neighborhood and go get...
some pills or some drugs. And I'm not saying that is what happened, but those are the theories that come up with this. Brewer was asked about this in some different depositions and some different questioning, and he pled the fifth. He didn't want to talk about it. So as of now, we don't exactly know where he went. Next question. Was Shannon's wallet and cell phone ever checked for DNA fingerprints? So a cell phone that was found with Shannon was given to Mary Gilbert, eventually, by SCPD.
And she claims that it was operational, that she turned the cell phone on and it worked. So that would beg to question, well... If it had been out in the elements for an upwards of a year, then how would that be possible, especially in the snow? and the rains. It's a marsh area that Shannon was found. So it's not possible, honestly. I don't think that it could have been working had it been outside the entire time. But...
Had it actually been outside the entire time, like we sort of have to assume, then I don't think DNA or fingerprints would even be possible. I mean, the evidence is... basically destroyed at that point there's nothing that would survive 18 months outside if it was not outside i can't say because it was never treated as though it was not outside So I don't think it was ever tested for DNA or fingerprints. What I would add to that is SCPD really wasn't looking for foul play.
They didn't really have that in mind. So I don't think they would have checked them. But like Shannon said, I think it was about 18 months from when she went missing in May until this stuff was found the next year in December. And these are the clothing items. And the wallet and the phone that were found 100 yards, let's say, from Hackett's back door. But if they would have been out there for 18 months, there's no way I think DNA or fingerprints would have made it that long.
The weird thing is, as Shannon brought up, is Mary claims that the cell phone that they turned over to her looked fine and turned on, which is... Unbelievable. I mean, they need to build more cell phones like that if they can withstand the elements for 18 months. So I doubt they were ever checked. Just back to the question where they checked for DNA or fingerprints. I doubt it because...
Again, SCPD didn't suspect foul play. Next question. This is from Elise. Do you know if the burlap bag showed any indication of how long each body had been there? Like were they all equally weathered or did each bag show increasing signs of deterioration consistent with the length of time each victim had been missing? So just a little background. The Gilgo Fort's been reported were all.
wrapped in burlap, at least those four. And the question is, Maureen Brainerd Barnes, who went missing in 07, were her remains and this burlap sack really deteriorated compared to Amber, who went missing just three months before these bodies were discovered. So it's a question of were they all put there at the same time or not.
So that's the setup for the question. And the answer is we don't know. I mean, we don't totally know that they were all wrapped in burlap because some of that started as rumor and some of them were, but let's just say they all were. So far, I have not seen SCPD release this idea of what the deterioration was of the bodies, of the vegetation around the bodies, which would tell time, and the deterioration of the burlap sacks, which would also...
tell how long they've been out there. So we've had that question. We'd love SCPD to release some answers there, but that's the best answer we can give for now. Probably as far as pieces of evidence go. I would love to see the burlap, but I mean, we just got the belt. So I don't think it's going to happen. Again, I'm not a scientist, but I think that we could definitely do some sort of, I know this isn't the right term, but like carbon dating.
to determine how old it is or how long it had been out in the elements. I'm sure there's some way to do that. And I do think this would be info that maybe SCPD would hold back. You know, if someone comes forward and says, yeah, I'm the killer.
And they're like, so you put them all out there at the same time? And they're like, yep. They're going to be like, no, you didn't. Because what they know is the bags and the remains were deteriorated in different levels of time, showing they'd been put out there. soon after they disappeared. So this could be one that they hold back for good reason. If not, this is more information SCPD could release to the public. But you know what, Chris, that's a really good point because.
And I'm not one to ever defend SCPD. But it does seem like it would make sense for them to hold some of this back. I mean, you can't reveal all your cards. And there are a lot of nutjobs out there. who might admit to things that they didn't do. All right, this next question is from Sally, and she said, on the last episode, someone, I think Robert Kolker, mentioned that he thought the bodies of the Gilgo Four
were kept elsewhere and moved to Gilgo Beach together. I'd like to know what was behind that theory. Is there any evidence? Why does he think that? Do others involved think the same thing? Why do people think Lisk did that? And what was his motivation to move them? This question, or rather the theory that this question involves, actually relates to the last question about the burlap sacks that the Gilgo Four were allegedly...
found to be inside of or with. This theory posits that the Gilgo Four were stored together elsewhere and placed on Gilgo Beach. But I'll let Chris dig into that a little more. I went back and looked at what Colker said, and he doesn't really have any evidence. And he could be proven wrong on this, but it's just a theory. He has this theory because the way they were stashed kind of uniformly and about the same distance apart, quarter mile, quarter mile, quarter mile. And to do that so well.
It seems like you would do it at the same time rather than remember exactly where you put them and then put the next one a quarter mile exactly and the next one a quarter mile exactly. So that lends to this idea that maybe they were all put there at the same time. that he knew and he wanted to come back and visit them or something. Now, he could have also set a triptych on his car or truck and then driven along, knew exactly where this one was, and then drove a quarter mile later.
Two years later, when the next one went missing, and then two years later, when the next one. So there's not a ton of evidence on why it happened. There's just a few theories behind it. And why it ties to the last question about the burlap sacks is what... Colker says this could be proven wrong easily if it turns out forensically that they can prove one had been sitting there a lot longer than the others. I'll just read this from Colker so you kind of know what his thinking was.
There aren't any obvious markings about exactly where the body would be. And so he would have to spend a lot of time on the highway searching for the last one was in order to plant the next one, one tenth of a mile from where the last one was. So that's why this theory comes of... they were all put there at the same time. Because once you go beyond those four, the other five or six remains, they were more scattered and less uniformed. Back to Sally's question.
That's the theory and that's some of the evidence. But again, it could be proven wrong or right with some forensics of how long the bodies were there. But we just don't know exactly what that is. My thing is, I don't know if they were exactly a tenth of a mile. It's kind of one of those things that comes up. And I've been there, and I haven't totally measured it out to where the markers are. All that to say, I think...
They were placed there separately. And this sicko just knew how to plan it out. Shannon, where do you land on the theory of being put there at the same time or at different times? So I actually disagree with you on that.
I think that the bodies were stored. I think this guy collected them. And for whatever reason, I think due to attention, I also don't believe that Shannon's disappearance... was connected to the Gilgo 4, but I think that the heat that that disappearance drew, the spotlight kind of appealed to some sicko who... either was waiting or saw it as an opportunity to get some attention for these murders like chris said without forensics we can't definitively say we can just
And that can be actually one of the most frustrating things about the Long Island serial killer case is that nobody knows a lot about it. We just know a lot of theories. Hopefully someday we'll get down to a large truth. Have you ever heard about the woman who woke up in a cold sweat like she just had a nightmare, but she knew what she saw while she was sleeping was more than just a bad dream?
Or the violinist who disappeared from the orchestra pit in front of thousands of people in the audience? What about when a mark left behind at a crime scene led investigators to wonder if there were devil-worshiping cultists prowling the rural neighborhood? Well, the Mr. Ballin podcast, Strange, Dark, and Mysterious Stories, is nothing but these kinds of stories.
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Hi, I'm Karina Bemisterfer, host of Morning Cup of Murder, your daily true crime podcast. Yes, you heard me right, daily true crime. Everyday Morning Cup of Murder tells you a straightforward, short-form story about murder, true crime, cold cases, disappearances, serial killers, cults, and more. And I do that all in under 15 minutes. With over three years of stories and over 20 million downloads, the Morning Cup of Murder podcast has become a staple of so many people's daily routines.
So why not add it to yours? Stream Morning Cup of Murder everywhere you listen to podcasts. And remember, stay safe. Every town has a dark side. This is Andrew Fitzgerald from the Everytown Podcast, where every single week we dive into insane and mysterious true crime stories, most of which you've never heard of. Stories like the bizarre disappearance of Tyler Davis in Columbus, Ohio.
A 29-year-old father trying to find his way back to his hotel when he disappeared and was never heard from again. And Elizabeth Shove from Lugov, South Carolina, who was abducted from her driveway by a madman. and take into his underground bunker in the woods. We give you all the details you're interested in hearing about without any fluff or fillers, because ain't nobody got time for that. We cover everything from psychopaths to poltergeists.
So go check out the Everytown podcast because Everytown, no matter how nice it may seem, has a dark side. The next question is from Emma. Curious if the Long Island serial killer case has ever been linked to Robert Durst. Now, this is an interesting question. Now, Durst, if you've seen The Jinx on HBO, it's an amazing documentary, and it's about Durst. wealthy New York guy. His family was into real estate, made billions. Back in the 80s, I think his wife went missing.
And they were looking at him and then the case went cold. And then the case comes back up that they're looking at him for his wife's disappearance. And he kind of freaks out and takes off. And he ends up in Texas. in Galveston and ends up killing his neighbor, but he gets off for that. Anyway, if you haven't seen The Jinx, this is Robert Durst, and he is an interesting guy.
interesting is I just talked to Durst's lawyer regarding another podcast project. So this well-known defense attorney down here in Texas. And we didn't discuss LISC and Durst's potential ties to it. But in regards to the Lisk timeline, and when some of the killings occurred, and I haven't totally plotted this all out, but I don't think it fits. I don't think he was there when some of these girls went missing.
He was out of state kind of hiding. So I don't think he's ever been linked to Lisk. And I don't think it works out. But it's an interesting question. Wouldn't that be an interesting link if that happened? Like Chris, I found the jinx to be riveting and a really interesting portrait of Robert Durst. When I first heard this theory, I thought, oh, man, wouldn't that be weird?
But yeah, like Chris said, the timeline doesn't work out. And it also doesn't really fit. If you watch the Jinx and do any sort of research on Durst, it doesn't really fit his profile at all. Yeah, and I could be wrong on the timeline, but I'm pretty sure he was out of the state. Now, did he travel back because people weren't aware of what he was doing and anything's possible? But I don't think so. But it's a good question. We appreciate it, Emma.
All right. Next question from Olivia. Why don't they have security cameras that don't auto delete footage along Gilgo Beach or just more of them around Long Island? Pressure residents to have them up on their houses. Couldn't that help? Well, back in 2010, I don't know what really the state of Oak Beach's security cameras were, but it is what it is or was what it was. I mean, they said that this was common practice. They would routinely...
delete the tape to clear more space. I don't know. I mean, my grandma used to do that with Days of Our Lives. So it's not really a stretch of the imagination to think that maybe Hackett was like, well, that's what you do. You just delete the tape. to make space for more recordings. And security cameras have come a long way. Now you have digital and you can just throw up a hard drive that records terabytes.
But back when it was just VHS tapes or whatever, you'd have them for two weeks. And if anything happened in that two weeks, you could go back and look at the tape, which is what they should have done. And then the next part of that question is pressure residents to have them up on their houses. I mean, that's one of those scary things where, yeah, everyone feels safer with cameras, but then there's the question of big brother and all of that.
It feels safer, but then it gets a little scary when there's too many security cameras. So it's kind of a catch-22. But I always go back to this idea, given who Dr. Hackett was, and that he was such a busybody and so involved with everything. why he did not save that footage. But thank you for the question. The next question is from Jim. I am certain Shannon was familiar with someone at Brewer's home. The explanation of what took place there makes no sense at all. None whatsoever.
That's not really a question. And I understand what he's saying. We feel the same way. It's just this idea of like, what the heck happened at that house? Because it doesn't make sense. And we feel that. So thanks, Jim. We understand your frustration. But the next question from Cheryl ties into this. So I'll read that one and then I'll let Shannon jump in. But Cheryl writes, I would like to talk more about Michael Pack and Joe Brewer.
specifically why they were never held criminally responsible for the death which happened while they were both engaging in a criminal act, that being Shannon's death that came about. In addition... Why Michael Pack was never charged like Megan Waterman's boyfriend was eventually charged. So, Shannon, you run with this and set up a little bit about what they're talking about, just so just so people know. So Megan Waterman's.
Pimp at the time. As you'll remember in episode four, they traveled in from Maine and stayed at the Holiday Inn Express in Hapag. That... violates federal law under a law called the Mann Act, which basically prohibits the trafficking of anything really over state. trafficking specific to prostitution or drugs. So he crossed state lines. So he immediately went under federal jurisdiction and therefore broke federal law.
Michael Pack claims to have picked Shannon up in Manhattan. You may remember from episodes one and two, she lived in Jersey with Alex Diaz. So.
If Pack had picked up Shannon in Jersey and took her to Joseph Brewer's house in Long Island, he would have technically been violating the Mann Act. But because he... claims to have picked her up in Manhattan, which goes with Alex Diaz's story that Shannon and Diaz went to go see a movie in Manhattan that night, then PAC didn't violate federal law at all.
He was just taking her to a party. He, I guess, had an alibi. I mean, they never treated him as a serious suspect, as far as I know. Yeah, and there is the question within the Mann Act. about trafficking but also it is often about sex work and there's a part of it that says even if it wasn't over state lines if a death results in this trafficking or pandering pimping
that they can be charged. And we talked to Pack about this, that there's not really a statute of limitations. He could be charged, which kind of scared him a little bit. But... You have to step back and go, what does SCPD think? They're the ones who could chase this down. And they really, again, like we've mentioned in previous questions and in previous podcasts.
they don't think there was really foul play involved with Shannon's death. So it's hard for them to go after Pack or Brewer for that if they don't think there was really foul play. But... If I worked at SCPD, I would have brought them in and they can lie. So I would have put them under threats of the Mann Act or whatever for answers. Now, they could have done that. Again, we mentioned before in a previous question.
that once the bodies were found on Ocean Parkway, and they thought it was Shannon at first, they brought Pac in, they brought Brewer in, and they really questioned them about what happened. And so maybe they did some of this. And once they realized it wasn't even Shannon. They obviously let him go and didn't pursue it much farther. So the MAN Act, like Shannon said, mainly involves trafficking over state lines. And that's why PAC's story has always been interesting.
He claims, oh, I always picked her up in Manhattan. But who knows? Hopefully, SCPD did use some of their pressure to get some answers. And it just didn't lead to anything because maybe she wasn't murdered. Maybe she just, as you know, the theories on Shannon's death. It's a good question. And I'll just add this. If SCPD did not think that Shannon Gilbert was murdered or that there was any foul play, then release the tapes. Hashtag release the tapes.
It's a good point. And they were forced to finally release him to John Ray. As you've heard that episode, if you have a couple of months ago, he talks about the tapes and what's on there. They could be much more forthcoming then. OK, this is the last question. And it is by far the most frequent question that we get. And this question is, when is season two coming out? And I'll let...
our gracious host, address that question. Well, thank you for being so interested in season two and wanting it to come out, as do we. And... Sadly, I don't have a specific date yet. We are stuck with giving the same answer of we are working hard on it. We're still dealing with COVID. At the time of this recording, it's early September, September 4th.
We're still dealing with COVID. We are in Texas. As you know, we've been really popular with COVID lately and that makes us unpopular around the world and other states. So that makes it hard. to travel. But we are working on it. We still need to get up to Long Island and that area to do some more interviews. So I'm going to say it's at least a couple months.
Thank you again for joining us for this final part of our special Q&A episode. And again, thanks to all those who passed along the questions. And of course, to help others find the podcast, we'd ask that you take a couple of minutes to rate, review, and to tell a friend or two.
This episode was written, produced, and recorded by myself, Chris Moss, Jonathan Beal, and Shannon McGarvey. Editing and musical composition by Blake Maples. Executive producers are Jonathan Nowzarden, Jonathan Beal, and me, Chris Moss. Brought to you by Mopac Audio.