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Thank you for joining us on Lisk, Long Island Serial Killer. In this Q&A episode, we're going to do our best to pass along some insights and answers to the many questions you've been kind enough to send us over the past few weeks. So thank you for those. But because of all the questions we received, this is actually part one of a two-part episode, and we'll be releasing the second part tomorrow. Now, before the episode, a couple of quick things. First...
We do not claim to be experts or doctors, lawyers or law enforcement, but we do know the LISC world well and did our best with these responses. So we hope they bring some clarity to the issues or questions some of you had about the case. Lastly. To keep attention on the victims and this case, please subscribe, rate, and review as it helps others find the podcast. Now, here's part one of our Q&A episode.
Hi, thanks for joining us on this special episode of Lisk. My name is Chris. I am a producer and also the host of the podcast. And I am joined with... Hi, it's Shannon McGarvey, senior producer for Lisk Podcast. Thank you so much for sending in all of your questions. We are going to do our best to dig in and answer every single one to the best of our ability. Now mind you, we're not lawyers. We're not medical professionals. We're just producers who have investigated this case for a long time.
Yeah, we have spent a lot of time in this case and we want to help. And that's why we're answering this to keep moving things forward, hopefully. So let's jump in and we'll see what we get here. The biggest question we get is when is season two coming out?
And that is one that we will talk about. But since it's our biggest question, we'll save it for the end. Jeff sent us a question. Is the theory of two different serial killers realistic? I am speaking to information from the Killing Season documentary. TV series. So in the killing season, which is Josh Zeman and Rachel Mills, this has been talked about before the killing season when this whole case broke. Was it one killer or two? And there's a few reasons for that.
We've discussed a little bit of this actually in episodes five and six. There was this whole thing between the DA and the chief of police arguing about whether it's one or two. I'll let Shannon jump into some of the reasons why it's believed there could be one or two. So, first of all, the timeline of the killings, I mean, if you include Peaches, Peaches goes back to 1997, and then the most recent murder was in 2010.
So that's a long time for a serial killer to be working. Is it impossible that it's the same? Killer? No, if it's one person. I mean, like there have been cases in the past where serial killers stop for a while. To put it in Chris's words, it gets a little too hot and they quit or they move and then they come back. It's not.
beyond the stretch of the imagination to think that this is one person. But because of the timeline, a lot of people have speculated that it's more than two people. There's also the cabal theory of a group of powerful men. involved in some sort of brothel ring or even something more devious than that. And the two killer theory comes out of that as well, that maybe there's several people within this group. Maybe they're working together. Maybe it's some sort of team effort.
But theories abound when it comes to if there's a killer or killers. Yeah. So part of its timeline. And then part of it's because the MO changed. Bodies were kind of dismembered and spread around Long Island, you know, Manorville and different places, Fire Island. And then the Gilgo Beach Four, the first four found, were all complete.
bodies. So some people say, well, he realized that hiding different parts didn't really help just put them all on Ocean Parkway. Or was it two, you know, one did it one way and one did it the other and they were trying to up each other? Or was it one who adapted? Now, as far as my thoughts are concerned, I'm not 100% that it was one killer, but I'm probably 65, 70% that I think it was one killer who adapted over time. Could totally be wrong.
Shannon, where do you land on the one or two? I lean toward one. killer theory it's hard because i can also entertain the idea of multiple killers i read some of these theories and again like we're no experts on criminology i can understand why someone could see it that way so
I'm with Chris. I'd say I'm about 50-50, honestly. It could go either way. Jeff, thanks for the question. I hope that helps. So it is realistic. It just depends on where you land with it. So the next question is from Kamala or Camilla. If the murderer or murderers are still out there, do you think they still drive by Ocean Parkway or they lost their interest in driving by their trophy yard since the bodies were found and removed from there?
Thank you for the question. It's interesting. I mean, who knows what goes on in the brain of a twisted person who does these sort of crimes? But my belief is they do live in the area. They know the area. They know it well. I imagine since they do live in the area, when it makes sense to cruise out Ocean Parkway, if they're heading into New York City or something, I bet they do. If they're still alive, I hope they are so we get justice. But I imagine they still do drive by there when they can.
Yeah, I wouldn't doubt it. I think that the person lives in the area. And like Chris said, who knows what goes on in some sicko's brain. But have they probably driven down Ocean Parkway? And memories, maybe. The next question is from Jane. This may be a season two question. I believe in the trailer, you interviewed John Bittroff for next season. And I wanted to know if he disclosed if he had sex with the sex workers he was convicted of killing.
That's to greedy and McNamee or was just using sex workers in general and not specifically them. So. We are still talking with the Bittross for season two. We're still negotiating if we can work with them. during season two for a couple episodes just to tell that story because it has been linked in some ways, mainly by SCPD to Lisk, potentially. Now, what happened was, is they...
we're kind of burned by this journalist. So hopefully they listen to the podcast. They know they can trust us and still want to talk to us to tell their story, honestly, but we'll see what happens with season two. But I think what we can share with what we know about John Bittroff is that during his case, we know that it did come out that he admits to having sex with some sex workers, including those two. And that is also confirmed by DNA.
but there was more than just his DNA on them. There was a lot of DNA. So he has acknowledged that he had sex with those two, but he says he's innocent. allegedly there's a lot of weird stuff that went on with the case and that's why they want to talk because they think they were a little screwed over by scpd and the da who is now kicked out and has been convicted of
Some stuff the DA has. So I would love to hear their story. And his wife still stands by him, even though she knows it was horrible having sex with sex workers while they're engaged. She was not happy about that. Yeah, his whole family really stands by him. He has a son who honestly was devastated when all of this went down. And yeah, the Bittroff family...
And Chris, correct me if I'm wrong, the Bittroff family really feels like they were railroaded into this whole thing that, yes, I did entertain sex workers once upon a time. That was not a good thing, but that doesn't mean I'm a murderer. And beyond that, it doesn't mean I'm Lisk. All right, so next question is from Lindy, and her question was actually pretty long, so I'm just going to summarize it. Basically, she wants to hear more about Peaches and her daughter because she feels like...
There's so little known about them. And if you all remember in the killing season, if you've seen the killing season, Josh and Rachel spoke to a tattoo artist who after law enforcement had. placed an ad in a regional tattoo magazine featuring Peach's trademark sort of peach tattoo, this Connecticut tattoo artist came forward and said, hey.
I remember giving that tattoo to a woman way back when. And then later he said, and after she went missing or some years after I gave her that tattoo, a woman called my shop. claiming to be that woman's mother and said that her grandson presumably peach's son wanted a tattoo that look like his mother in memory of his mother. But I haven't heard anything more about this Connecticut tattoo artist. I'd love to speak to him.
I'd love to really dig into this because as a mother myself, I have always been especially touched and disturbed by the Peaches story. It's actually of all the LISC or potential LISC victims, Peaches is the one that I always, Peaches and her daughter are the one that I always, I get a real nod in my stomach.
I think anytime a child is involved, it's just super hard. Some people say that she's not part of Lisk because her murder and the murder of her daughter happened in 1997. If you all remember, Peaches is presumably a young woman. between 20 and 30 years old. Her daughter was between one and a half and three, I think. And their remains weren't even linked until I want to say 2000.
17, a few years ago. And then there was a web sleuth that pointed out a few years before that that they weren't even listed in NamUs, the National Registry of Missing Persons and Unidentified Persons. So there's just a lot of mystery and speculation surrounding Peaches as a doe and her daughter as a doe. I mean, I would love for nothing more than these people to be identified. I'm hoping...
that there's somebody out there who is missing a daughter and a granddaughter from that time period that would come forward, just ask questions. I'm hoping that the tattoo artist would come forward. Speak to us something like that beyond that another theory about peaches is that some people think she wasn't involved In the list murders that she was a victim of circumstance and that's actually part of Lindy's question is was she just a victim of circumstance?
Was she just dating somebody, maybe even the father of her child who murdered both of them, like a victim of domestic violence and not of a serial killer? Chris, where do you land on it? That's really good, Shannon. So perhaps it's a total anomaly and it's not connected, or perhaps it is. Some people think that maybe Peaches and the child really need to be looked into because maybe it's connected to the killer himself.
that he had to get rid of this person and the child because they were too close and they found out something about his killing. Who knows? It's just so odd that... a sex worker would be out there with a child. Like Shannon said, it is heartbreaking all the way around. And I really appreciate Lindy's question because it's a nice challenge for us to say, like, how can we look into peaches more? Because...
Josh and Rachel in The Killing Season, which was on A&E, if you haven't seen it, please watch it. They do a good job digging into some of these unidentified, which are hard to do just in general because they're so little known. In season two, I would love to continue to follow up, especially on Peaches and the Toddler, because who knows where that could lead. And ultimately, given that...
Valerie Mack was identified recently through DNA. It seems that that could happen with peaches in the child, that through DNA, they could identify the family. And then who knows what that could lead to? Because if the killer is closely connected to them. it could open up a lot of doors there. So Lindy, thank you for that question. And it was a long question that we couldn't read the whole thing, but hopefully we've covered a lot of it for you. The next question is from Callan.
Shannon's boyfriend and driver, Diaz and Pac, give Hackett Shannon's mom's Mary Gilbert's phone number. Well, it's not confirmed, but Pac and Diaz both say they were called when they went out to try to... hunt for Shannon the few days after she went missing, and they ended up talking with Hackett, they seem to recall giving him contact info, and that would include Mary's number. They can't be 100%.
He got that number, I would say, 80%, 90% positive through PAC or DS. That's how he got the number. Yeah, I've heard that as well. Again, it's not really a stretch. Pac and Diaz were looking for information on Shannon and for Diaz or Pac, probably Diaz, to be like, look, here's my number, here's her mom's number, because that's next of kin.
So if you have any information, give us a call. Then the weirdness ensued with Hackett. And I think the question comes like, if Hackett didn't get the number through those two guys, Pac and Diaz. Then he had to get it from Shannon, and that means he interacted with Shannon. And there's a small chance that happened, but it seems more likely from what everyone says is that he got it through Pacan Diaz, and he's weird to call.
and say what he did. If you've listened to the podcast, that does fit with who Hackett was. He was this busybody who wanted to seem important and he's going to call and be involved. And that's where that happened. Well, there's also the possibility of maybe he was peripherally involved in some way. Maybe he did go out there. Somebody called him. He was the neighborhood doctor. And this is just spitballing. It's a theory. This isn't proven.
Maybe it was like, okay, I did interact with her peripherally or I interacted with Joseph Brewer that night or he called me or something like that. And yeah, being the busybody kind of wanted to help or get involved in some way. Didn't want to be implicated. Kind of wanted to help, but at a distance. So then he made up this outrageous lie. Home for wayward girls. Come on, man. I mean, like Chris said, who really knows? Next question, we've got Rob.
So I'm wondering, have any escorts gone missing since the former police chief went to federal prison? Have any escorts gone missing since Dr. Hackett moved to Florida? So there's a lot of subtext in this question, at least the way I'm reading it. The way I'm reading it is if we think that the... former chief of police, Jim Burke and Dr. Peter Hackett are involved somehow in these missing sex workers. I'll let Chris answer that. Yeah. So to Rob's question, he's kind of talking about.
Since Burke went to jail or Hackett moved to Florida, has anyone gone missing? And I kind of looked at the big picture. It's not easy to answer, but have people gone missing from the New York City, Long Island area since then? Yes, I'm sure. Have they gotten much media attention? Probably not. That just doesn't happen a lot unless it's some white female jogger mom of three. If those that have gone missing and they've been labeled as escorts.
That's probably a smaller pool and even less likely to get coverage. If they are sex workers, they can be estranged from their families. So often they don't get reported missing as people don't know. And that's... Part of the reason about half of the victims of LISC right now are still unidentified. They were just disconnected from family and friends. The subtext of the question I see is, we hope that once the bodies were discovered in 2010, 2011,
It ended the killings. I know the myth, serial killers won't stop, but they do. Sometimes they age out. It's just too much work for them. They're smart enough to say, whoa, it's getting really hot. I should back off so I don't get caught. But some don't stop. So there's a chance that this piece of shit, sorry, this serial killer is out there and has moved his...
location of where he puts bodies. I hope that's not the case. I hope he has stopped and is just waiting to get caught because that's what we want to do. It would be interesting to see if there have been any serial murders up and down the eastern seaboard that. kind of match the Lisk case. It would be interesting to look into that. I have not personally looked into that. People have theorized about connections between the Atlantic City murders and...
the Gilgo Four or the Long Island serial killer murders. But yeah, there's a lot of people that go missing that don't go reported. There's a lot of sex workers, I imagine, that go missing that also don't get reported. Do we have any definitive proof that... the former chief of police and Dr. Hackett are materially involved in any of this or.
because they went to prison and moved to Florida, respectively, that these murders spontaneously stopped happening? No, we don't have any proof of that. It's only speculation at this point. Yeah, because one moves to Florida and one goes to jail, but there have been no more escorts missing could just mean it's unrelated because that person's like, whoa, I got to back off and it's a totally different person. But who knows? But thank you for the question.
Okay, next question. Is the murdered woman recently discovered in Manorville connected to Lisk? So recently, in the past, what, two or three weeks, I would say. There was a woman's body that turned up in Manorville, which is out kind of east of Gilgo Beach, kind of the Pine Barrens, this kind of desolate area where some of the bodies had been found before.
Now best I can tell, there have been no ties made yet to Lisk at all. I looked into different articles and the one that I read, they had ID'd the woman and determined that she was from the area. But there's been nothing released yet on the background of the woman or the circumstances of her homicide. But it has been determined to be a homicide. I hope she's not related to Lisk, mainly because that means he's still active.
But I imagine that it's a singular murder. And with the woods and the Pine Barrens being what they are out there, that it was chosen as the spot to leave the victim. That's my take on it until more information comes out. Yeah. And as Chris. knows, because he's walked the woods of Manorville, that area is ripe for dumping, be it trash or unfortunately human bodies.
So, yeah, a couple of weeks ago, the police ID the woman and they said that her body, at least the article that I read, her body showed no signs of injury, which obviously would be.
different from the Lisk murders. Unfortunately, and this is totally understandable, anytime you hear about a female body being discovered in manorville your mind if you know anything about the list case instantly goes to valerie mac and jessica taylor and john bitroff honestly i mean for me i'm not saying he's related i'm just saying it instantly goes
to Lisk and Lisk adjacent cases. So I can totally understand why someone would ask that question. It's a great question. But as of now, there's no connection. Yeah. And John Bittroff being he lived in Manorville. If something else comes out about that in any connection to LISC, we will let you know, obviously. Another question we've gotten a lot of recently in different forms is about Sugar Bear and how and if they are related to the Lisk case. Chris, do you want to start this?
Yeah. So first, a little background on Sugar Bear. Sugar Bear is Andre Isaac. He was a 25-year-old drag queen, and that's where the name Sugar Bear comes from. And he disappeared in November of 2002 from Brooklyn. And this is all from his mom. This is where we learned this because she gave an interview to Pix11. And she said that in November of 2002, he left with kind of a secret friend of his, this Hispanic looking man in a red sports car.
And disappeared. And then a month later, in December of 2002, his torso was discovered in far Rockaway, Queens, which is Lisk-related, farther west of Ocean Parkway. quite a bit for the area farther west, kind of just south of the JFK airport. That's where his torso was. And it wasn't really connected to Sugar Bear until the next month when January 03, farther east of...
the Lisk dumping ground out in Marich's Long Island, which is 60 miles east on the South Shore. An ice skater was on this pond and came across a head that was frozen in the ice that had a bullet hole. And it was determined finally that this was Sugar Bear's head and he'd obviously been shot. So I think what happened is that the LISC task force, SCPD, looked into this case to see if it was connected to LISC.
From what they're saying, they don't think it is. But Kim Jordan, Sugar Bear's mom, she thinks he is related to Lisk. So that's where she lands with it. She might know more than what we do. She probably knows a lot more than we do. Who knows what she's been told by law enforcement, but that's where she lands on it. So the location is somewhat connected, but that area out there, even though it's not totally near the Lisk dumping ground, bodies do turn up there, sadly.
But it seems pretty far out of the area of Lisk. And the victim, this big 6'3 guy, does not really fit with the MO of Lisk. So it doesn't seem like it's connected to me. And I totally agree with Chris. That said, my heart goes out to Kim Jordan, the mother of Andre Isaac. I can't imagine her pain and I wish her the best in searching for answers. And another thing to mention is that on the topic of Andre Isaac and like why he comes up.
is he was once listed on the Gilgo News website, which is a source of news, a source of updates for the Lisk case. He was listed on the Gilgo News website as... Once upon a time, I want to say a person of interest in terms of victims related to the Lisk murders. Maybe not necessarily a Lisk victim, but Lisk adjacent victim, something like that. When I went to Gilgo News website last night to go and find this again, just to sort of double check, I could not find.
a direct link to it so i googled andre isaac gilgo news and i found what i assume to be a hidden link that is still active although not linked directly on the site. So I'm scratching my head just as much as everybody else where I'm like, how is Andre Isaac related to Lisk? Do you know something that we don't know? And maybe Kim Jordan does. Maybe she doesn't.
But it's interesting nonetheless. Yeah. Thanks for bringing that up, Shannon, because the Gilgo News site is set up by Suffolk County Police Department. And like Shannon said, there is this. hidden link that is still active. I'm looking at it right now. And if you go to gilganews.com forward slash VIX, V-I-C-S forward slash Andre Isaac, all one word.
As of today, August 31st, 2020, it is still an active link that is hidden. So it is kind of unexplained. Maybe they just put it on there and then have forgotten to take it down, which is... just a question in and of itself. That is why people have this question of Sugar Bear and is he connected? Our feeling, and I think I can speak for Shannon here, is that he doesn't seem connected. But as Shannon mentioned, maybe...
His mother does know more than we do as far as the connection there. I'm sure she does. So maybe there's something there. That's as best as we can answer the question with Andre Isaac and his connection to Lisk. And I hope that helps. Have you ever heard about the woman who woke up in a cold sweat like she just had a nightmare, but she knew what she saw while she was sleeping was more than just a bad dream?
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It's for anyone who wants to push their limits, achieve peak performance, and truly thrive. Are you ready to unlock your full potential? Then it's time to become mentally stronger. Subscribe to Mentally Stronger with therapist Amy Morin available wherever you love to listen to podcasts. Okay, next question. Why was Shannon Gilbert's family raising money to analyze her 911 tapes? Why hasn't this been done already? So this is a good question.
First, let me explain to analyze the tape. So if you've listened to some of our bonus episodes, we talked to John Ray, the Gilbert's attorney, about the tapes being released to him. So he has heard them. And you can go back and listen to that episode with John Ray.
It was really good. And he talks about this analyzing and trying to figure out the voices and different things. That's what they want to do is really get an expert to listen to these tapes and to figure out who's on there and what's going on. The reason it hasn't been done, I think, is SCPD saw no foul play as far as we can tell. So they didn't analyze them because, you know, if there's nothing wrong, why analyze them?
Or if they did do something, it hasn't been shared with the Gilbert family. So they don't know what's been done. So they have to raise money to try to figure out whose voices and what's going on and how many different voices there are on the tape. So that's why they're raising money. So either SCPD hasn't done it, which would be my guess. And if they have done any analyzation process on these calls, Shannon Gilbert's 911 calls, they haven't released that information.
So that's what's going on there. So if you want, please give to that fund if you can find it. I think if you go to Long Island Press and search for this, you can find an article about this and them raising the funds to have them analyzed. So if you feel like it, please give. Or if you're a sound expert and you know what they're talking about and know how to do this, reach out to John Ray's office and offer your services. They would love to have that. Shannon?
As far as I see it, the... Why is Shannon Gilbert's family raising money to analyze her 911 tapes? Because SCPD didn't do it. I mean, the poor family of this woman is now having to raise money. to do the work that law enforcement, in my opinion, should have done. You could say, well, it's not an official homicide. We don't know what happened. There's so much mystery surrounding this woman's disappearance and death.
Even if they weren't looking at it as a homicide, I mean, there's just so much buzz and mystery around it. Please, for the love of God, analyze these tapes. Give the family some resolution. Honestly, it just seems suspect at this point and then the fact that the transcripts, the delay and like releasing the transcripts and the tape and all of that stuff. I mean, I just, my heart goes out to the Gilbert family and I'm with Chris. If you feel so inclined, please donate.
to their fund to help raise money to analyze the tapes or if you're an audiologist someone who can really scrutinize tapes like this you know the audio of tapes like this and isolate the audio please reach out to John Ray's office and help them in any way you can. And that doesn't mean that you know a little bit about GarageBand and...
you think you're an expert. This is like a real audiologist who knows how to do this stuff, and that is not Shannon or I. And I'll just say this too. SCPD is not some podunk. police department in the middle of Kentucky, I'll say in the middle of Arkansas where I grew up, where they don't have the funds or the expertise to do this sort of thing. It is one of the most well-funded police forces.
in the country, if not the most well-funded. So they have the ability, they have the funds, they could take James Burke's overtime, half a million dollars of overtime that he wants to... claim that they don't want to give them. Some people in Long Island don't want to give them. There's a half a million right there that they could use towards things like this. Well, my thing is, correct me if I'm wrong, but is the list case not the most...
one of the most notorious murders or serial murders that, A, have happened in the area, but also have happened on Long Island. Please, wouldn't you want to make this go away? Just, like, help. Please, do what you can. Because the more you don't do what you can or seemingly don't do what you can, you just look suspicious. Like, it just looks bad. I mean, it's getting ridiculous. It's been ridiculous.
Well said, Shannon. Well said. Because, you know, I think Shannon and I both land on the side that Shannon Gilbert is not related probably to Lisk. But there's still, like Shannon said, a lot of mystery surrounding her disappearance and death. So why not do everything you can to bring some answers to the poor family, at least, and to take the heat off yourself. Do it for selfish reasons, if only.
Next question is from Jessica. Do you think the victims knew their killer or was he a new John? A few of the girls broke some rules like not bringing a cell phone, leaving personal belongings behind, etc. That made Jessica think that perhaps they knew the killer. I'm going to let Chris answer this because he covered this extensively in episodes five and six of season one. Yeah. So thank you for the question, Jessica.
We did talk about this in episodes five and six, mainly six, I believe. So if you want to go back and listen to that. But I think they did know the John. They had experience. They had a past with this person. And not only that. The last one to go missing that we know of, Amber Costello, her roommate, Dave Schaller, he thought it was not only someone they knew that she knew, but it was someone of prominence. Someone who they felt that...
this person had a reason for them to leave their safety protocols, their phone behind, their ID, different things like that. Because this person, and I'll just sum this up, you know, I don't want to put words in Dave's mouth, but... That, you know, this person was a judge or a cop or someone who had a reason to say, look, you can't bring your phone because it's trackable or pictures or recordings and we have to.
if it was a group, or I have to protect myself. And according to Schaller, this is what he thinks happened, that this person used their prominence to get past these safety protocols. And he talks about this, that Amber Costello had been in the business for a while and she knew how it worked. And she was wise enough to know that you don't just go against all these safety nets that you put in place.
Unless you have reasons. And those are the reasons that Amber knew him. And he was a prominence, a cop, perhaps. And that's why she went against this. So do we know for sure? No. But there's a lot that leads us to that. The next question is from Jean. Do you know why Asian males clothing has never been released to the public? So I'll let Shannon start with this one. I mean, that's a good question because that goes back to.
The question of like, OK, well, why did you really choose to release the belt and nothing else? What else are you hiding? Why did it take so long to release photos of the belt? So I don't. know why Asian male does clothing has never been released to the public to me. From an outsider's perspective, it seems a bit arbitrary.
Why release the belt if you're not going to release other things? Yes, I know this is an ongoing, active investigation, but SCPD has been tight-lipped and slow to release helpful information to the public. I can only speculate as to why, but no, I don't know why. I'll just add that I know investigations.
SCPD or not, will sometimes hold back certain information because they need to check it against someone who claims to be the killer. And in this weird world we live in, people often come forward and say, yeah, it was me. And then they'll ask him some questions to see if it were them. And they can rule them out because they're like, nope, they didn't know this. They didn't know that. So it's sad that we have weirdos that will come forward and claim this stuff, which just makes.
investigating that much harder. But it doesn't seem like releasing details of Asian male's clothing plays into that effect at all. As they did, they released the letters of the belt, not even the full belt. But we wish they would release more. And transparency is helpful. And they've said that. So be more transparent. Again, it's taken a decade for them to release the belt. All that said, given how long Asian males closed, we're there.
exposed to the heat, the cold, the snow, the salt, whatever. It is doubtful that there are a lot of details and things they could release. I'm sure the clothing is broken down, but... It would be nice to know that they could release that, couldn't they? Well, yeah, and that's a good point to make because it's like how how much is even identifiable at that point? Would it even be helpful? This is just hypothetical. But if they were like.
He was wearing a purple shirt. Okay. It was, you know, Levi's brand. Okay. Well, my friend had a purple Levi's shirt. On the other side... I can understand why it would be important for law enforcement to withhold certain information because people do come forward and say either I'm the killer or my husband's the killer. or my boyfriend, I used to date a guy who was the killer. I mean, even in our limited sort of purview, we've had people that have come behind the scenes and said,
I think maybe my ex-boyfriend did it. And Robert Kolker's talked about that as well. So you just have to be really careful because yes, people will come forward and say some pretty outrageous things, be it true or not. I think. what they have released about Asian males clothing is that it was, he was in woman's clothing, if you will. So there might've been just some underwire of a bra and some fabric of a bra. So they know it was female, if you will.
But maybe that's why they haven't released because there's no details other than they were female clothes. So we don't know. But like I said, even if they came forward and said, look, we know Asian male. The Asian male was in female clothing, but the clothes were too deteriorated to give any details or brands or whatever, any identifiers. That's helpful. And it shows that they are being a little more transparent.
Even that would be nice. Yeah. Throw us a bone, please. OK, so the next question is also about peaches. And it's about why Peaches was excluded from the Gilgo News website when both she and her toddler were found along Ocean Parkway. Chris, I'm going to let you cover this. I actually... thought I saw Peaches on the Gilgo News website. Maybe I'm thinking about Cherries. I know Cherries was listed on Gilgo News, but the toddler is listed as a victim on the investigations page.
of Gilgo News. And I think by proxy, her mother, Peaches, is also included in that. It's like, why was Andre Isaac on there? And then suddenly had a hidden link. I don't know who is the... web manager over at Gilgo News. Yeah. I don't think they have a long history of website creation if you just look at the website itself. But it is a good question because...
We use the name Peaches. It is a Jane Doe unidentified, but Peaches because there was a tattoo of a peach. But I am on the website right now. And if you go under investigations on Gilgonews.com. And it has investigations, but if you go on there, forward slash victim, so that doesn't really match up. But it has everyone identified except Peaches, Jane Doe number six, but it does have the toddler.
And it also has Shannon listed on there. Good point. Our Shannon just pointed that out. But then if you click on the toddler, it says the skeletal remains of an identified toddler were discovered along Ocean Parkway in close proximity to Jane Doe number six.
on April 4th, 2011. So the whole point is there are some people missing because she wasn't even actually, the toddler wasn't identified to be related to Jane Doe number six. She was related to be three which is peaches but neither one of those is listed under victims so it does seem like they have asian male which is unidentified uh john doe but they have basically
to Jane Doe's number three and number six, not listed on the website. I mean, basically, this ain't a web sleuth's thread. I mean, anybody who knows anything about the case or the victims would look at this page and... have a lot of questions. So going back to the original question, why is Peaches excluded from the Gilgo News website when both she and her toddler were found along Ocean Parkway?
i don't have an answer for you i don't know i have the same question i think it's by mistake honestly it's just oversight i mean shannon gilbert was lumped into victims on the victim slash investigations page on Gilgo News, which would lead people to believe that she was part of the Gilgo Four and part of...
the Asian dough and all of that. So I just think it's unorganized. Honestly, I don't think it goes any deeper than that. Yeah. And to Shannon's point, you know, a lot of people might feel that Shannon is related. But according to SCPD, she's not connected to it. So I don't know why she's on the victim's page. This is per SCPD. She's not connected.
The search for Shannon did lead to the discovery of all the people, but she's not supposedly connected, according to SCPD. But then they do leave off to Jane Doe's. But I have other issues with the website. It took so long to make. We had talked to one of the victim's sisters who said that they worked with her in making it, but that they've been talking about it for a long time, so they finally released it. And it's very clunky as a website. It's very incomplete.
And I am no webmaster, but for 2020, it seems you could do better. And it has this weird link to Sugar Bear. It basically looks like an Angel Fire, like GeoCities page. I mean, let's be honest. It looks like my weird uncle made it. three years ago. Hey, do you have trouble sleeping? Then maybe you should check out the Sleepy Podcast. It's a show where I read old books in the public domain to help you get to sleep.
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Fluff up the cool side of your pillow and tune into Sleepy. Unless you're driving, then please don't listen to Sleepy. Find Sleepy on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes each week. Sweet dreams. Welcome to the I Can't Sleep Podcast with Benjamin Boster. If you're tired of sleepless nights, you'll love the I Can't Sleep Podcast.
I help quiet your mind by reading random articles from across the web to bore you to sleep with my soothing voice. Each episode provides enough interesting content to hold your attention. And then your mind lets you drift off. Find it wherever you get your podcasts. That's I Can't Sleep with Benjamin Boster. Hi, I'm Karina Bemisdurfer, host of Morning Cup of Murder, your daily true crime podcast. Yes, you heard me right, daily true crime.
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So why not add it to yours? Stream Morning Cup of Murder everywhere you listen to podcasts. And remember, stay safe. Next question is from Joanna. Do you think it's possible that Shannon Gilbert died of hypothermia? The air temperature at the time was not that cold, about 60 degrees. But the water temperature was likely significantly colder. I think it accounts for the removed pants.
Paradoxical undressing takes place in about 25 to 50% of hypothermia cases, meaning they remove layers as they are close to death. Additionally, I think that accounts for the body position, which looks like she just sat down and died. hypothermia occurs relatively quickly and water temperatures of 50 degrees. You can die from hypothermia in about an hour. So it's kind of a long question, but generally it's Shannon Gilbert and the connection to hypothermia as far as a cause of death.
I'll start and then Shannon can wrap up. But we have gone back before and looked into the temperatures that night that Shannon went missing. And they were in the high 50s from what I remember. It's been a while since I looked at them, but it was not below freezing. It was near the ocean and at night there can be a lot of wind coming off the ocean and you can feel a lot colder. The air can feel a lot colder.
But I will say, you know, this idea does happen when people start experiencing hypothermia towards the end that they'll shed clothing because their body's freaking out and they'll take off layers when they should leave them on because things are happening with. the hypothermia is setting in, and they feel like they're burning. However, Shannon's clothes and her other items were found at the start of the marsh, not far from where she entered, roughly 100 feet from Hackett's back door.
It doesn't seem likely to me that Shannon was really suffering from hypothermia when she decided to take those items off her pants and things. I don't know if hypothermia played a role in that. She had just entered into the marsh. Using Google Earth, we've gone back and looked at satellite images of the marsh around that time, and it doesn't appear as if there was much water in the marsh.
has different types of ebbing and flowing when this drainage system will back up and it'll have more water, it'll have less water. And back then it didn't seem to have much water in it. So it doesn't seem like she's up to her chest and water trying to wade through this thing and really experiencing the cold. So that also helps lay to rest this idea that maybe she drowned, which had come up.
at various times. There didn't seem like there was a lot of water there. So that leaves me against the hypothermia idea. Lastly, the former chief of detectives back in episode two, we talked to him, Verone, and he saw Shannon's body when it was discovered. He went out to the marsh. And according to him, she was kind of elevated. She had kind of fallen over this bush and was up above the water anyway. So that seemed like she wouldn't have been down on the water for hypothermia or drowning. So...
And I have been to the spot where Shannon was found. And obviously it was years later and things change. But when we were there, it was boggy. There were spots where water would seep up halfway up my hiking boots. There was no chance of drowning from when I was there. That just wouldn't have happened. Or hypothermia, really. And what really struck us when we went and visited the spot and did some filming and some recording there is that...
Shannon was only 30 or 40 feet from reaching Ocean Parkway if she'd come through the marsh and so close from getting help from like a passing car. And I bring that up because some people have the theory that maybe her body was moved there that they... drove out, drove along Ocean Parkway Park, then brought her into the marsh. Now, that's a theory, and we have no idea. It's kind of like she was hidden back behind this little tree line along Ocean Parkway and was just set there.
So who knows? But the whole idea from Joanna asking about hypothermia, I mean, anything's possible. We don't know. But I lean away from it. Shannon? So obviously we're not doctors. We're not medical examiners. When I read this question, I was actually really intrigued by it. I think that had conditions been different within the marsh in Oak Beach. that I think this hypothermia theory would have, at least to me, someone who doesn't have a medical degree.
seemed very likely. And I thought, wow, wouldn't it be cool to talk to somebody like a medical examiner or somebody who knows something about hypothermia to get some answers about this? Because it seems like it could be likely. But we did, like Chris said, look at the satellite images of the marsh at the time, and there wasn't water there as far as we could see. I mean, obviously, we weren't there on the ground.
but it didn't seem likely that hypothermia could have happened. I mean, it was about 60 degrees. I don't know how wet she was. I don't know if there was even water there. So it's interesting, but... As of now, I don't think it's likely. But it is a good question. And perhaps it's something we could do in season two where we could talk to an expert just and understand some more about hypothermia because it does come up with Shannon.
Thank you for joining us for part one of this special Q&A episode, and we'll see you back here tomorrow for part two. And again, we appreciate all those who sent along the questions, and to help others find the podcast, please take a couple of minutes to rate, review, and to tell a friend or two.
This episode was written, produced, and recorded by myself, Chris Moss, Jonathan Beal, and Shannon McGarvey. Editing and musical composition by Blake Maples. Executive producers are Jonathan Nowzarden, Jonathan Beal, and me, Chris Moss. Brought to you by Mopac Audio.