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Thank you for joining us for this bonus mini-episode of LISC, Long Island Serial Killer. In the last episode, you heard my recent conversation with Robert Kolker, the author of Lost Girls. In our original interviews, Robert spoke about what it was like to spend time with the victims' families. Also, based on his research, he shared a theory on how the bodies of the Gilgal Fort came to lay where they were eventually found. As a final note...
This coming Wednesday is the exciting Season 1 finale of Lisk, Long Island Serial Killer. Make sure to listen and catch some of our most compelling interviews yet. Plus, we'll have a sneak preview of what's to come in Season 2. Well, I think about half the people now in Oak Beach are people who inherited the house from earlier generations. And again, it's not a high-class area because the land doesn't belong to the people who own on it. It belongs to the state.
but still it's oceanfront property so it's not cheap. And so you have cottages that used to be summer cottages back in the 1920s that have been retrofitted and souped up and their driveways have been tarred and now they look more like suburban year-round houses and people can live there pretty cheaply.
The land in Oak Beach actually belongs to the town of Babylon. It doesn't belong to the people who own houses on it. And so the people who live there, they pay rent. They pay a little lease, you know, a couple thousand dollars a year to the town of Babylon. It's a fine situation year to year, but it's an insecure situation decade to decade because one day the town in Babylon might decide to redevelop the entire place.
Robert has fielded thousands of questions about who the Long Island serial killer is. While he may not have a name, he has some interesting ideas about how he operates. I think when people looked at those first four women who went missing, plus Shannon Gilbert, they saw one thing that they had in common, which is that they all disappeared during the late spring or early summer.
I think the earliest one in the calendar year to disappear was Shannon, and the latest one was May 1st. And I think Amber was September 2nd. And so the question becomes, what if this is a warm weather killer? What if it's somebody...
who is operating somewhere else another part of the year and then is in Long Island during this part of the year. And that theory becomes more attractive when you think about women who have disappeared in other parts of the country further to the south at other times of year. there are missing women in Atlantic City and missing women in Florida. And so the more people who see conspiracy theories can think maybe this is a killer who travels up and down the eastern seaboard.
I've gone back and forth about whether Liss killed just those four women who were found on Ocean Parkway or is responsible for more of the bodies along the beach. And I've gone back and forth about whether Shannon Gilbert is related. I now believe... that Shannon's death, whether it was accidental or an overdose or someone inadvertently killing her by trying to help her or murdered, is not connected to this case. I think it's an amazing coincidence, one that no one could have ever written.
but I think she's unconnected. Now, as for those four women and the rest of the victims, I'm coming around to the idea that it is one killer who was erratic at first, maybe insecure at first, maybe doing too much to try to cover his tracks, moving his body to different places the way that Joel Rifkin did, dispersing body parts in different places, and then suddenly settling on his own way of doing things with the advent of the internet.
I think he realized that he could go shopping on the internet for the perfect victim for him. And I think that's what he did first with Maureen, then with Melissa, then Megan, and then Amber. A lot of people have theories about how the killer could have got all these bodies into the bramble, and the fact is that it's the perfect place to dispose of a body. You're talking about 15 miles of straightaway that is very poorly lit.
and that is almost deserted at night. It's great for drag racing and it's great for being alone and it's great for pulling over on the highway and knowing when people are coming because you can see miles and miles in each direction no matter where you are along this straightaway. It's a quiet road at night and there's bramble on the side. And so it would be very easy for someone driving a vehicle and who has four bodies in the back to pull over.
throw one body in the bramble, get in, drive a tenth of a mile, throw another one, and then another one, and then another one, and then be on their way, all the while being able to see if somebody was coming or not. I think those four bodies that were shrouded in burlap were put there at the same time which begs the question where were they before that because you've got
Maureen Brainerd Barnes, who disappeared in 2007, Melissa Barthelemy, who disappears in 2009, and then the final two, Megan and Amber, in 2010. Where was he holding those first two bodies? Why would he stash them all at once that way? I think that he was stashing them somewhere else. I think he did transport them. I think the burlap is part of the transport.
Robert's book helped bring nationwide attention to the individual victims. Here he talks about his experience in coming to know who they were and who their families are. When I was working on... this book it was clear i was the only one working on a major book about the case and that it seemed clear that if the killer were still at large and was going to read any book about it it was going to be this one so there were moments where i sort of would remind myself hey
he's probably reading this too. And I kind of had to put that out of my mind and realize that what I was really trying to write about was trying to write about justice for these victims. And I knew that however, you know... much I might be feeding into the media feeding frenzy of this case, I was doing it with the victims in mind to try to make it clear to the public that they were more than just the people they were painted as in the papers and to make it clear that
they should not be forgotten and that cases like these in the future should be taken more seriously. I had met first with Missy Kahn, who is Maureen Brainerd Barnes's sister. We met in Connecticut and I learned about the particular position she was in about how her sister had been missing for so long and only now people seem to care about it and how strange it was that they only seemed to care about it because it was part of a serial killer case.
But mostly I saw a woman who loved her sister and was desperate to let the world know that her sister was more than just a murder victim, was more than just an escort, was more than just like a plot device in some episode of Law & Order. And I thought that the world needed to know more about that and I ended up asking Missy to connect me with some of the other family members and to get everybody together. And I met them all on May 2nd.
of 2011. They all came to New York. There was Amber's sister Kim. There was Melissa's mother Lynn and her sister Amanda. There was Mary Gilbert and Cherie Gilbert. There was Maureen. They all talked for the first time and it was an emotionally exhausting day. It was a cathartic day in a way for some of them. There were some differences of opinion. Kim, Amber's sister, was there and she got into a disagreement with Mary about...
whether or not their daughters and sisters did drugs on dates. There was a lot of emotions running high, but there was also a certain amount of kinship that people felt with each other.
in the same place, going through the same thing, being able to share for the first time. And that's when it occurred to me that A lot of people write books about serial killers, but not a lot of people write books about open cases, about the victims in their lives, and the mystery of how these women made the decisions that they made.
was every bit of a mystery as who killed them. And so I wanted to look at both mysteries. The mothers and sisters of these victims are ordinary people who've been caught up in a terrible, extraordinary situation. None of them asked to be in the spotlight. None of them overtly condoned what their daughters or sisters were doing with their lives. And then none of them ever sort of expected to have to...
litigate against all of society on behalf of their daughters' and sisters' memories. It's a terrible situation for anyone to be in, and I think they all deserve our compassion and our respect. And above all... We have to remember that to put them up on a pedestal and to expect them to behave perfectly like someone we elected to public office is a little unrealistic. I mean, these are ordinary people who are...
dealing with something that nobody should have to deal with. Have you ever heard about the woman who woke up in a cold sweat like she just had a nightmare? but she knew what she saw while she was sleeping was more than just a bad dream. Or the violinist who disappeared from the orchestra pit in front of thousands of people in the audience.
What about when a mark left behind at a crime scene led investigators to wonder if there were devil-worshipping cultists prowling their rural neighborhood? Well, the Mr. Bolland podcast, Strange, Dark, and Mysterious Stories, is nothing but these kinds of stories.
Each episode is meticulously crafted to keep you hanging on every word until the final chilling twist. Seriously, the host, Mr. Ballin, has this unique ability to keep listeners balanced on the edge of their life and death with just a dash of excitement like they've never heard before. Follow Mr. Ball and Podcasts, Strange, Dark, and Mysterious Stories on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad-free on the Amazon Music app.
Do you find yourself captivated by the inexplicable, entranced by enigmas and tantalized by the unknown? We are Shane and Josh Waters, brothers who will weave you through tales that have mystified us for years. From haunted hotels to inexplicable disappearances. With a gripping narrative, we invite you to join us on a journey into realms of the unexplained. So, armchair detectives, curious minds, and seekers of the strange, it's time to put on your headphones and dim the lights.
Dive into the uncanny world of the Mystery Inc. podcast and prepare for a journey into the unknown that you'll never forget. And remember, some mysteries are better left unsolved, but not unexplored. Thank you for listening, and if you haven't already, please subscribe, rate, and review as it helps others find our podcast. Please be sure to download the upcoming Season 1 finale of Lisk, Long Island Serial Killer, on April 15th, wherever you find podcasts.
For more information, including exclusive photos and videos, go to LiskPodcast.com. L-I-S-K Podcast.com. If you suspect human trafficking, contact the National Human Trafficking Hotline by texting HELP. to 233733.