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Download Decoupling Group Therapy with Dr. Paradise wherever you listen to podcasts. A note to listeners. Thank you for joining us on LISC, Long Island Serial Killer. In this episode, we'd like to share answers to the many questions you've been kind enough to send us over the last month. We don't pretend to know all the answers, but we're happy to offer you any and all information we've gathered in putting together the podcast.
Hi, my name is Chris Moss. Thank you for joining us for this special Q&A episode. I am here with Shannon McGarvey, fellow LISC, Long Island Serial Killer podcast producer. Thank you so much for submitting your questions across the internet. And we will do our best to answer all of them. Yeah. And we are, like many, working from home. And we have our... Home setups, office-wise, recording-wise. And so please give us grace on any sound issues or kids in the background or barking dogs.
But we are doing our best to sound as professional as possible. So the first question was, was Melissa Bartholomew... one of the Gilgo four, also friends with the daughter of Rita Tengredi. Now, obviously, you need some backstory there if you don't know the whole story. So... Rita Tengredi was a sex worker killed in 1993 out in Manorville, Long Island. And there has been a man convicted in this killing. His name was John Bittroff. And after his 2017 trial...
The DA's office floated out the idea that Bittroff might possibly be responsible for the list killing. So, the question goes back to, was one of the victim's daughters friends with Melissa, and is that... connection there. It's definitely an interesting connection. According to PIX11, which is a news source out in the New York City area, Amanda Beinlich... was the daughter of Rita Tancredi, and also friends, possibly just acquaintances, with Gilgo IV victim, Melissa Bartholomew.
Both of the women were from or at least had connection to Buffalo, New York. This connection has been substantiated by Melissa's family, specifically Amanda Funderburg. So apparently Beinlich and Bartholomew shared an apartment for some time in New York City. And I definitely think this is an interesting connection. Also considering that... In the days leading up to Melissa's disappearance and her death, her phone records show several phone calls to and from the Manorville area.
Manorville was also the area that two other LISC victims were found. Could this be a coincidence? Yes. Is it an uncanny coincidence? I think so. But... Definitely something to note moving forward. Yeah, and I would just add to that that Bittroff lived in Manorville. So that's interesting. So there are connections there. We don't know exactly what it means, but...
As Shannon said, it is very interesting. That was a good question. The next question is a question about Melissa and Shannon. Both Melissa and Shannon were arrested. Is there... Any info about where they were detained during their arrest? Any connection? I'll start off with this one. So Shannon was arrested a time or two for prostitution in New Jersey. But as far as I know, there are no connections to...
that and the list killings. When we interviewed Cretia Lugo, she mentioned that Melissa was arrested and sent to Rikers, which is a correctional facility outside New York City. I also don't find any sort of connection between her arrest and the fact that she was a victim in Long Island serial killer. I mean, as you know, sex workers are often arrested at some point in their line of work. It's just a risk that happens, unfortunately.
So question three, someone checked Melissa Bartholomew's voicemail from her phone, which pinged in Massapequa. Did law enforcement check hotels in the area of the cell tower? Were those calls ever recorded? Okay, so this question goes back to episode three. And the night that Melissa Barthelemy disappeared, her phone did ping from this cell tower in Massapequa.
Law enforcement did go out to a few hotels around that cell tower to see if she had been there or if anyone remembered seeing her and nothing came of that. Now that call, because it was just a voicemail check, was never recorded.
But I also think this question is referencing the calls a few weeks later that came in from Lissa's phone to Amanda, her sister, which we also get into in episode three. And those four or five calls... that were made over about the span of a month they tried to get those recorded but they ran into problems back then with technology and getting the right phone that could record
This is also why there's a lot of theories about Lisk being involved with law enforcement in some way, because these calls were very short to Amanda Funderburg. They did not really allow for... being recorded or for being traced. They were also made from very high traffic areas that would further inhibit being traced. So question four, what kind of accent did the caller have?
Was it a slight New York, Brooklyn, Long Island one? And I think this is referencing those calls we just talked about, the calls that came into Amanda and what the killer, the caller, what accent did he have? In episode three, like Chris had mentioned before, Amanda gets into the calls that she received from Melissa's killer. And she says that the accent was kind of monotone.
She indicated a slight Northeastern regionality. She said that he sounded middle-aged, but she also sounded like he was trying to intentionally disguise his voice. Yeah, and there's also a reference to a call in episode four that Sarah Carnes, a friend of Maureen Brainerd Barnes, receives about two weeks after Maureen disappeared. And we don't know if it's the same caller.
But she describes kind of a flat, no affect, monotone voice. Okay, this is question five. The podcast states the calls to the sister. That article, anonymously sourced... has him calling twice within the first week of her disappearance, just wondering about this discrepancy. So this listener is asking about the calls made to Melissa Bartholomew's sister, Amanda Funderburg, who we interview in episode three. And she's saying that there is some discrepancy.
between our account and the accounts from Colker's book and a Newsday article. To answer this question, I think there are differences on when the calls started coming in and how many in this week and how many in that week. Even when we talked to Lynn and Amanda, they recall what they recall, and it's off here and there. One thing that we didn't discuss in the podcast, but that we did talk with Lynn about, is that she...
was told by a friend at the Buffalo PD to keep a notebook as soon as all this started and write down everything. And she did. And so she has exact dates of when the first call started. details on everything but once scpd started getting into the case they took this notebook and she's never gotten it back and she's asked for it and they've not returned it
But I think some of the discrepancy in general is just because it's been years and memory changes and memory gets faulty. But there is a distinct answer out there with Lynn's notebook. Hopefully someday, and maybe in Season 2, we can help Lynn get that back from SCPD and clarify some of these details.
This is question six, and it says, who do you guys think is the Long Island serial killer? My gut feeling says that it is more than one person. This is a huge question, so I'll let Chris start with his thoughts first.
So my thinking is, after years spent dealing with all of this and talking with tons of people across the board, my feeling is it's a group of men that are into weird... sex parties could be totally wrong it could be some lone weirdo in his mom's basement but that's a gut feeling and that's where I land with it Shannon
I have to agree with Chris. I think that given what I've learned over the course of the past few years working with Chris on researching the Long Island serial killer case, I do think that it's a group of... powerful men that get together and do weird stuff, specifically murders. My gut feeling says that it's definitely more than one person as well.
Question seven. Do you guys think that the serial killer is still alive? This is another one of those really big questions that is often asked when discussing the Long Island serial killer case.
Personal opinion is, I really don't know. I think that something definitely had to happen to make the killing stop. Was it suicide as some... theories suggest was it incarceration was it just that the case received so much publicity i don't know uh but it could be any number of things honestly i tend to think that
Probably the killer is still alive, at least one of them. And the case probably just received too much publicity and the killings had to stop or move elsewhere. But we'll dig into that and other theories in season two. I have nothing to go on, but my thought is that it's a group of men. I think some of them are still alive, if not all. And I think what Shannon brings up too is interesting. Like, why did the killing stop?
Well, as far as we know, they stopped. We don't know, are they still killing and putting bodies somewhere else? I think they stopped putting them there because, of course, the heat that was on. Question eight. Has anybody got any information on Joseph Brewer? How many people used Craigslist for escorts in the locality? I find it strange that Shannon Gilbert felt threatened by Brewer, although I don't think she was murdered.
Then all these bodies are found in his backyard, basically, all hired through Craigslist. So this question is asking about the night that Shannon Gilbert disappeared. And how common it was for people like Joseph Brewer to hire Craigslist escorts in the Oak Beach area, which is a very remote area that we discuss.
in depth in episodes one and two. So I'll let Chris handle this first. Chris, what do you think? Well, so anybody got any information on Joe Brewer? He was or is a traitor. He moved away from Oak Beach. He's divorced, had a kid. How many people use Craigslist for escorts in the locality? I think anyone who is looking for escorts... at that time, was on Craigslist looking for him. Now, Oak Beach is a small area.
150 homes total between the two sides of Oak Beach. And there's other areas around there with some homes. But if you're a guy or a girl looking for a sex worker, that's what you would do. So I think the question is, basically... What did Brewer do and how culpable is he? My feeling is I don't think Brewer is behind too much. Oak Beach isn't like Midtown Manhattan was in parts.
There's not a strip where sex workers are walking up and down. If you want anything, you have to basically drive a long ways or order it.
I'd say anybody who wanted a prostitute or a sex worker would have to use Craigslist or Backpage in order to get a hold of one in the Long Island area. I don't think that Joe Brewer... had anything to do with Shannon Gilbert's death or disappearance, but I would say that he probably knows more than he's letting on, like a lot of neighbors in the Oak Beach community.
In terms of what happened to Shannon, I agree with Chris. I think that she probably had some sort of psychotic break, began hallucinating, felt threatened by Brewer, and took off. You say his bodies are found in his backyard, basically. As the crow flies, her body was found half a mile, if not more, away. So I don't really see that.
There's a definitive connection between Brewer and Shannon in terms of culpability in her murder disappearance. And this just isn't based off what Joe Brewer said or what Michael Pack, her driver, said. A lot of this, what we have, comes from depositions that he's taken with Brewer and with different people at Oak Beach. So, question nine. How far from Brewer's house in Oak Beach was Shannon's body found?
Joseph Brewer's residence is about half a mile from where Shannon's body was found, which is in the clearing right behind Peter Hackett's house. Question 10. Do you think that the Long Island serial killer was known to all of his victims, or was he frequenting sex workers and killing whenever the right set of circumstances presented themselves, or both?
There's some that we can answer for this question. As far as the earlier victims, the six that were found after the Gilgo 4, that five are unidentified, it's hard to know what the interaction was.
But as we get into the victims where more things were known, like his last victim that we know of, Amber, and Megan Waterman before her, it did seem, by all accounts, there was... some rapport there that they had been a regular and it wasn't just that this person was a regular but they had some prominence something to
help them to drop their guard and to let go of their safety checks, their safety nets that they had for the business. I think at least some of them, from what we know, they were known to the victims, but not all of them.
Have you ever heard about the woman who woke up in a cold sweat like she just had a nightmare, but she knew what she saw while she was sleeping was more than just a bad dream? Or the violinist who disappeared from the orchestra pit in front of thousands of people in the audience?
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We bring history to life, revealing the extraordinary and the ordinary from local legends to forgotten tales that shape the communities we know today. Tune into Hometown History and embark on a journey through time. right from where you are. Question 11. Are police planning to use any of the newest DNA technology advancements to assist with identifying victims or catching the Long Island serial killer, assuming there is such DNA evidence available?
Well, I know that police have been pretty tight-lipped about what they have and don't have in terms of evidence and DNA evidence available, but I'll let Chris answer this one. Yeah, this is a good question. One thing I know for sure, which came out in the January 2020 SCPD press conference where they revealed some new evidence and they talked about DNA and that they are going to use advancements to hopefully identify.
the five unknown victims. So that is something that should happen if they can get into some of these like 23andMe's ancestry type things where they can start making connections through that DNA. and figure out who the victim was, which might give answers to who the killer was. As far as catching the killer itself through DNA, that we don't know only because we don't know if there was any DNA left behind.
That's something SCPD hasn't shared. And we do know Amber, the last victim, who had only been out there for three months, that's still a long time for DNA evidence. It would degrade. We're not sure if there's any DNA evidence left that would identify a killer. Question 12. I'd like to know any theories on who Lisk could be suspect-wise and profile-wise. I personally suspect he's a cop.
There are a lot of theories abounding about who the Long Island serial killer or killers could be, some of which include law enforcement officials, some are government officials. city officials, and even prominent business people from the area. But all of those theories and more we will discuss in season two. Chris, do you have anything you want to add? Well, as far as profile-wise...
We don't know what the FBI has done to create a profile on this person recently. According to SCPD, the FBI is involved at some capacity. But Verone did talk about when the FBI helped early on. that they didn't ask for a profile because there are issues that come with profiles. If it doesn't match up and you do find the guy and then his attorney can say, well, that's not what the profile says. So they didn't ask for a profile from the FBI early on.
Moving on to question 13. This question is asking about the phone records that were available to us from... Gilgo 4 victims and Shannon. Most of that info that we know of is with Suffolk County Police. So all they have and what they've done with it, we don't exactly know.
We do have some clues of some of those phone records. Like with Amber from episode five, she used Dave Schaller's phone quite a lot. And he was able to call those numbers back, but they didn't really lead to anything. He alluded to that. they seem to be a burner phone but i will say this is something that we really want to do in season two is
Try to collect all these phone records and work through that because from what we've heard, law enforcement and otherwise, the key to solving it is probably phone records. Question 14. In my corner of the world sex workers can report bad dates through something called a bad date line. Are there any places where sex workers can go to report a bad date outside of a police station? And if so
Do they have any stories to share of similar cases where the victim maybe got away? First of all, I'll say that I've never heard of the bad date line, but I think it's a great idea. Furthermore, I'm unaware of any national organization similar to that where sex workers can go to report dangerous or bad dates outside of reporting it to police, which, you know, might get them arrested.
But yeah, I think it's a great idea. Yeah, I know of nothing like that. And I do think it's a good idea, a unionizing almost to where it would not only protect them in the moment potentially, but if there was something down the road. It'd be kind of a paper trail of who some threatening John might be. Question 15. What has convicted ex-police chief James Burke been doing since he was released from prison?
So for the average listener, this question requires some setup. And it's a little bit of a spoiler for what's to come in season two, where we get into the whole train wreck that is James Burke. It's a big involved story, but here are hopefully the basics on why James Burke was in prison. So it helps people understand the question of what he's been doing since his release, since he's gotten out. So it started back in December of 2012 when...
Chief of Police Burke's SUV was broken into, and this duffel bag of his was stolen out of it by 26-year-old Chris Loeb. It's reported that Burke's duffel bag had some handcuffs, mace, a gun, or a gun clip. It's confusing what was in there, but... There's also other things like sex toys and porn DVDs, including one alleged to be child porn. Now, once Lowe was busted for this, for stealing the bag, he was brought to the station. Burke showed up and proceeded to threaten him.
say horrible things about Loeb's mother, and beat the crap out of him. Some reports say that what really set Burke off was when Loeb called him a pervert. However, later, Loeb claims in an interview that he called Burke a pedophile. Regardless of what he called him, it's no reason for Burke to do any of it. But from there, Burke worked to cover up the whole incident. But it finally came out, and in 2016,
The FBI convicted James Burke for violating Chris Loeb's civil rights and covering up evidence. Burke was sentenced to three years and some change. He got six months taken off for good behavior and was finally released in November of 2019. And then to the initial question of what James Burke, former chief of police, has been up to since his release, I'll let Shannon take over.
So according to Newsday, he's under three years of supervised release, regular check-ins with federal probation officers. He has to grant authorities access to monthly bank statements, income, expenses, all of that stuff. He's under lock and key. One thing I'll add to that is that he was owed. In back pay and vacation pay and overtime pay, like a half a million dollars. And being that he was fired and sent to prison and is a disgrace.
There is a movement to try to make sure he doesn't get paid that. I hope that's the case because I don't think he should receive that when he's not doing a good job at being a police officer. Or a human being. Or a human being. Okay, this is question 16. Why did the police wait a whole decade to admit they found significant LISC evidence, specifically the belt with initials H-M or W-H?
Why did they wait a whole decade? That's a good question. I wish they'd have done it sooner when more people were alive or paying attention or, you know, but why now? There's a theory that the Lost Girls movie was coming out and maybe they wanted to get ahead of it. and say, look how hard we're working. But we can only go off of why now by what they said. They think they can release it and they want the public's help. Question 17.
What have investigators learned about the Long Island serial killer evidence belt? Remember the initials H.M. matched those of someone who allegedly lived with James Burke and ran a prostitution ring out of his home around the time of the killings? Wow, that's a big one. Chris, do you want to tackle this one? Well, we don't know as far as SCPD investigators. We don't know what they've learned.
Remember the initials HM match those of someone who allegedly lived with James Burke and ran a prostitution ring out of his home around the time of the Long Island serial killings. This is something that we will talk about more in season two. Next question. Were the bodies inside of burlap bags or wrapped in burlap like the kind you get on a fabric roll? So this question is referencing the bodies of the Gilgo 4 victims.
who many, many sources, news sources and law enforcement have said were found inside a burlap sack. Some speculate similar to the ones used to hold soil for landscaping. In my thinking, this doesn't necessarily mean the killer is a landscaper. You can get burlap anywhere, honestly. People use it for all different types of purposes across many different professions. But yes, they were found inside a burlap sack. At least the Gilgo Four were.
We're at question 19. This is a pretty straightforward, easy question to answer. This is, can we see a picture of the full length of the belt? Unfortunately, we don't have access to the full length photo of the belt. We have the photo that everyone has, which is the one that was released in the press conference in January 2020. Next question. Does James Burke or any other suspects have a military background?
James Burke does not have a military background. His career started with NYPD and then he moved to SCPD working on various beats, including at the district attorney's office and eventually as chief of police, but no military background. And none of the other suspects that we've looked at have military experience either. Question 21. Hackett is interviewed in Lost Girls and said that the police did take the security video as evidence.
So where is it? Hackett claims to have seen it before police took it. Shannon's jacket was also found and mysteriously lost by police. How do you lose a piece of evidence like a jacket? and they refused to release Shannon's 911 tape despite a court order. What is going on here? I just don't understand how the SCPD are getting away with this. There's a lot to unpack here, and the best person to do it is Chris.
Chris, what do you think? Let's break this down. So first, Hackett has interviewed in Lost Girls and said that the police did take the security video as evidence. So where is it? Hackett claims to have seen it before police took it. So I looked into this and I can reference Lost Girls, page 316. This is Bob Kolker's book. Hackett told Kolker, please ask for the footage and they gave it.
Now, as far as seeing it, Hackett says, of course, early on, we said we should be looking at the security video, but that would have been tampering with evidence. So that's kind of a quote from the book, Bob's book. So that says we should have looked at it, but we didn't because we didn't want to tamper with evidence. This is Hackett's story that he tells. Now, we also talked to Verone, who was chief of detectives, and we asked him about the footage.
And this is what he said. And I think I believe him definitely compared to Hackett, who has proven to have lied. So Verone says that they did not get the footage because it was lost. So they were given a tape, but it had already been recorded over.
recorded over like it would last a week and then the tape would be used again and be recorded over so and he says you know and this was in episode two of our podcast where he talks about yeah they would have liked to seen it they would have liked to seen what was on there but Sadly, it was lost. And we also bring up the point of since Hackett was this do-gooder, junior detective, Johnny on the spot, ready to go, helping Diaz and Pac get to the bottom of Shan's disappearance.
Why didn't he pull that footage? He had a week to do it and he didn't. So according to Verone, it was lost. That's that question. Evidence is lost all the time in cases, sadly. How do they lose this? I don't exactly know. They also overlooked one of Shannon's earrings on Brewer's step that one of the sisters found days later when they came out looking for that had fallen out and landed on one of his steps outside his house.
So the cops overlooked that. John Ray, the attorney for the Gilbert family, has requested the tape. They have pretty much closed down Shannon Gilbert's investigation. They don't say it's foul play, but they still refuse. to release the 911 tape. A court has ordered them to release it. They appealed. It's been dragging on for over a year. At the time of this recording, which is in April of 2020, it's supposed to happen soon, or at least they have to respond.
John Ray, the attorney for the Gilbert family, thinks that when they finally are forced by courts to release it, they're going to claim it's lost. That's what I know about all that. Thank you for joining us in this special Q&A episode.
And a special thanks to all those who offered up the questions. To help others find the podcast, we'd be grateful if you'd take a couple of minutes to rate, review, and tell a friend or two. And please stay subscribed and you'll receive more bonus content while we work to get Season 2 out. For more information, including exclusive photos and videos, go to liskpodcast.com.