Lucifer 301 + 302 "They're Back, Aren't They?" & "The One with the Baby Carrot"

He's pretty wooden with this cast , yeah , and so on a previous rewatch I've been trying to be like all right , considering what we find out about him later . Him having being kind of wooden makes sense for his character . I don't know if that was a choice or if that was just Tom Welling , because he I think he gets by on his looks quite a bit .

Again , don't want to be smirks his character but he is very handsome , quite handsome , although when we get to fluff , I'm going to have something to say about multiple levels of handsome in these two episodes . Okay , all right , so .

How is Lucifer able to be sunburned ? I mean , he does say at least I'm healing quickly , but like he shouldn't have been able to be sunburned .

And then , like the , the chemistry between Jeremiah Burkitt , who plays Mr Set Out Bitch , and Tom Ellis is great , yeah . And I feel like Joe and LD were like yeah , that is great because we see later , like they get a whole episode together , like several . I mean I love seeing that guy , I love those callbacks .

The first time I watched it because I binged and I got there and I was just like I only very slightly remembered it because I was watching straight through , but still like that , that chemistry still got me . Like you know , I only barely remember what happened at the jewelry store , but like these two are hilarious , yeah , oh , that moment .

Right , like with this proof of divinity , like like the , the devout atheist couldn't be separated from them .

And so this guy was freaked out , but he was more freaked out about the sinner man coming after him , right , and so it was like it was just like startled , freaked out , and in some ways I feel bad for that guy because , like when he was coming back , like obviously he should have turned himself in blah blah , blah , blah , but he was coming back because he

was just like I got to get the guy that I brought out there and he was too late , like that's why it was there . It wasn't , it was a murderer returning to the scene of his crime . He was also covering up evidence by then . But like the impression I got is he went back . It was like , oh shit , all right , I could get to that point .

I could get to that point , but like he was out of the circle of death rather than Maybe I'm a murderer .

I was thinking about how it was actually also pretty elegant that when he's like all right , I'm going to show you , and he can't get his double face to come up , he'd already cut off his wings , so he couldn't prove it that way either .

And I was just like oh , because there have been times before where I'm like , why don't I just show his wings as his way to show , to prove it ? And I was just like oh , he didn't have them right then because , like At that moment ?

But once like he's in a cold state again and not like reacting to her being hurt , he's going to be like no , that's not how I want to show her .

He is Like I mean , it's like weird and quirky , but then it just keeps getting like and then I'm going to show you , and then he looks gassy , and then she does that weird like nervous rant to peers , to the lieutenant about like Lucifer showing me his thing or whatever , like I didn't work for me , but that didn't feel .

I can't figure it out right now . And then even that nervous rant which does feel a little weird but gets back to like I hate not knowing . You know that's my head cannon on that Generous take of it .

Yeah , so maybe I do want to talk about a menadil in these two episodes , for one thing , like just seeing again what a selfish jackass Lucifer can be , like that moment is funny with the text message and if you've ever paused it , where what the menadil responded back like I don't know what this means . Can you please tell me what's going on , lucifer ?

And Lucifer is already on to the next thing and just doesn't care , although he is emotionally intelligent enough now to stop himself when he's like it's ironic , you can't get your wings back and I , yeah , I got to come up to the desert .

We'll get them together in the audience if the source of ordenation I do appreciate those pairings and I appreciate .

He does then take it to like this is my test , but he recognizes this is not like my wings were not taken away and given to you , right Kind of thing . Which one of my kids earned a medal for something yesterday at school and the other did not . So this is on my mind . So that is like interesting that that's how he responded .

And then the moment when , in the second episode , when Linda says , this feels kind of cruel , and his response was well , if it wasn't hard it wouldn't be a test , and they're both right . You know , like if this is a test , it would have to be something that really really hurts . But if this is God's plan , what a capricious , cruel father .

And that's a both end thing . And again , and Menadil doesn't know , he's guessing , he's doing the best he can . But that's the other thing that I think is really cool is that he's doing the best he can and trying to be supportive of Lucifer and like what he says when he's like I'm disgusted by this and horrified by this .

But if Lucifer wants to treat his wings like trash , then we will treat them like trash . That's what they are , which it feels very it's very different from season one .

There's no chain , and presumably we saw him take it out of the sword and toss the sword behind the goddess light In her new universe . Yeah , Did he have time to like go home and put it in a Pan house before he was then kidnapped ?

Because if it was on his person when he was kidnapped like he didn't have a shirt or jet , like how did the piece like survive that whole ordeal ? Maybe he key stirred it . It does get easier the second time . So he says that feels unlikely .

Been , you know , like totally overthinking it because he cares , but Although , you know , we do see at the end , when he arrives to see Dr Linda , he has flowers , and so he's had a chance to at least stop and buy something . That's true . He might have had a chance to even like stash it in the In the Corvette or something .

I think , like the mysteries that the show runners are setting up for us , the viewers at this point are pretty interesting . You know , like with Ella's fangirling over him , right , and then you know the know who this like we the viewers don't know who this dude is , whether we can trust him , like what his deal is .

He's downright cruel to Dan , yeah , so I think that's that's kind of interesting , knowing where we're going with him , like they . They set it up to make sure that we would really be curious .

Yeah , want to know this dude's backstory , because prior to this , like we've barely even talked about the Lieutenant , unless it served the story , like in the very , very very beginning .

Yeah , there was that female Lieutenant early on right , lucifer slept with in order to get well slept with him and granted a favor , in order to be to get the the gig as a consultant . We haven't heard about the Lieutenant since then .

They're setting up , so we already know there's something up with this dude , because why do we care so much about the new Lieutenant , you know ? And then with the way that he behaves and how he talks to Decker and even the way he was like , last year we investigated 92 of your sexual partners . I'm not going to shake your physical .

I'm going to refrain from physical contact , that delivery .

Yeah , this needed to be said at some point , so he did need to be that that uncomfortable , you know , hey , at least that gun that you checked out wasn't used for homicide Right , and for us to know that , like there is some disapprobation at least the writers know that , like that happened and it wasn't really sufficient consequences , not plausible consequences , for

the real world at least , yeah , yeah . Well , and then that gives us a sense that in at least the fictional world of the Lucifer's LAPD even if all I got was a slap on the wrist we do see that there are long-term consequences because people talk about it . We do see that that that sidelines him .

I mean , even at the , there's the point where Pierce texts Lucifer to meet at Dan's desk and then he's like all right , I'm like Dan , this is my desk , you've got to repair your office , fine . And again , like it's interesting that we have this ambiguous character as the one who is meeting out this kind of potentially justified .

If you were someone who took law enforcement seriously and truly wanted to protect and serve , that would be the only way to keep going in the same way , like oncologists I'm sure have to also be like we can't win them all we do , we can't move forward .

It doesn't feel and like a menadil doesn't seem to receive it as condescending or mansplaining or human-splaining . Human-splaining to an angel , Like he actually seems to go with her on her little pep talk , which I think is really- .

There's something about that scene between the two of them that stayed with me .

And that's actually one of the reasons why I love Ella so much is that she's a person of immense faith , but she does not gloss over the ugly parts of life , like she recognizes the unfairness , the distastefulness , the hard parts , the pathetic parts .

And it's interesting because she's saying this to a menadil of the angelic ego and he doesn't take it poorly , he takes it in the spirit in which it's given that , like you know , whatever your lowest moment is , there's probably a reason for it that you don't know yet and it can be helpful to someone somewhere , and that's like that is a very hard thing to hear

if you're in your low moment .

But you know , like the fact that she has compassion for this dead squirrel , and also meanwhile I was thinking like her reenacting how the guy died , like part of it was just like that seems not okay , but at the same time that comes from the same sort of like , like deep empathy that she has for all creatures , like she's , like I understand how this man died

. And while I was watching it this time around , I was thinking like , for whatever reason , I've been reading and listening to things that are about true crime lately , like I don't personally like true crime , but I like the stuff that's like engaging with true crime . So like only murders in the building , yeah , only murders in the building .

And then I read a book that was about a true crime podcaster , but it was made up and so there's some grappling with the type of people who are very interested in true crime . And so I was thinking about like , oh man , yeah , someone into forensics would probably be like someone who's very interested in those sorts of things .

Yeah , yeah , and that's part of what's going on there and that there is an ethical and compassionate way to engage with this . So it's not just like I'm just interested in the puzzle and Ella kind of embodies that . It's not just like this puzzle is fascinating and it doesn't feel real to me .

It is real to her as she is so like energetically doing everything she does .

She's a character I can't think of any similar characters like anywhere else , because of all of those various facets that just merge together in such a way that is uniquely LLOPES and I just I really I love what they have done with that character and what they have done with my by ensuring that there is someone who has faith in the story I would like to talk

about . I want to mention this is the first time we have seen , since the first episode , we've seen anyone that Chloe Rests recognize her . Yep , and considering who this guy is and the way he lives his life , it is completely comprehensible that , a he would recognize her . B he would assume this was a joke and then like what am I supposed to think ?

Your name Lucifer , and she's the chick from a hot tub hotel , hot tub high school . She was not in school , like , look , you need to be accurate . I love that momentary callback because that is the sort of thing that is going to follow her . Yeah , absolutely Particularly because of where she lives , I mean being in Los Angeles .

People probably are consistently like , you know . Oh , the valet guy . I thought I saw him on party five . You know , like I imagine that's got to happen all the time and people end up taking second careers after trying acting or , you know , have co-careers at the same time . Which brings me to the second episode . I do want to talk about comedy and plagiarism .

Okay , so a dear friend of mine is a standup comedian , ken Schultz . You should look him up , ken Thin Guy , on Twitter . I believe there's also Ken Schultz who's a fisherman , so that's not who you want .

It was very different prior to cell phones , because there it would be hard to prove that someone stole your joke and the issue of people taking jokes from others .

So , like Dennis Leary got famous on jokes that he took from and I'm not going to think of the guy's name , he died young of cancer , but a very well known comedian who was just peaking when he died and that's , that's just known People would talk about , they would refuse to do sets in front of Robin Williams because he just kind of was all over the place ,

take things from anywhere and wouldn't realize where he'd gotten it from , right . That actually jibes with the way that he performed and like , and that's hard to hear about Robin Williams because we all have so much affection for him .

Now he made it a little bit more edgy , a little bit more like Boston Irish , like Dennis Leary , but it was that's what he took , because the murderer at the end , sheila , is like we all have an itchy butt joke . What you do with it is what counts .

And that is something I personally really grapple with in terms of creativity , because I have this limiting belief that I have to be original or else I am not really creating anything new . I also I don't want to like , don't want to call it art , because when Bobby Lowe at the end is like but what about my craft ?

It's just like oh , come on , even though I truly believe that comedy is an art , I truly believe that , and it can be transcendent in the way that any art can be . It can also be garbage in the way that any art can be .

You know , there's clown mermaid versions of comedy , right , and there's Sistine Chapel versions of comedy , right , and so I think that that it's really interesting getting to that at the end , with where he has that realization . Like you know , I'm loose for a bloody morning star .

You know , just because someone has taken this from me doesn't mean that I can't keep this . Make it my own . You know , keep doing it in my way , and that is , I think , a really important lesson about creativity and about how to make things your own . My co-author , Joe , loves the book Steal Like an Artist by Austin Cleon . Are you familiar with that one ?

I'm not . Where he basically ? He says all artists steal . There's like plagiarism , which is where you take something and you just pass it off as your own , but stealing is where you take it and you remix it and you make it your own .

So the importance of knowing how to steal like an artist is really a lesson that all creatives need to learn and understand , and also know that there is a line and figuring out where that line is and how close they are to it . I think the difference is , when you are stealing like an artist , you're paying homage . You say like I've got this from here and .

I mixed it with that from there and this is what I added myself , Because Dennis Larry will never admit to where his that early material came from . But that's something that I was really interested in , in part because when you have media set in LA you often will get stories about .

But I also feel like they're saying something really interesting about creativity in there and how they work as Joe and Ildi and their writers team . How they work because they are very much borrowing from many , many , many places . But Lucifer is its own thing .

I agree , just what he does with that character .

is a phenomenal song .

So , like all of that no-transcript Whoa , while the original set of wings were being sold and he was singing Cinnerman , and now the Cinnerman is like being manifest and they're grown back . They're grown back . Yeah , cinnerman's about the wings .

Construction Just doesn't work with that word .

Oh yeah , so something that had not occurred to me is I recently read someone saying that making jokes about penis size is transphobic . Oh , I was just like oh , that is a very good point . You know that it gets to a what ?

The book is a funny , funny guide to money , which sounds weird , and my co-author , joe , who's a 54 year old well , he's a 14 year old and a 54 year old body Someone was asking him like , hey , so so did you write all the dick jokes ? He's like , actually no , emily wrote like 98% of them .

And I would say , on book tour I was like yeah , I didn't do the size joke because I don't do size jokes , which I said to be funny . But it is actually also true that we have one size joke in there and I then like make a comment about that , saying like it's not , it's not the size of your stack , it's what you do with it .

My stack , I mean stack of money . Thank you for clearing that up , but I feel like I've never really particularly liked size jokes and I've never really had like a reason because I don't know what to think about it because I don't have that equipment , but it just always it feels weird to make fun of someone for something over which they have no control .

And it was interesting in that this episode kind of had it both ways , just like what Dan was saying , which is like you weren't defending him , you were just using the opportunity to tell more of those jokes . Yep and so and again .

That's one of those things where I wonder if by the sixth season they would have written it like this it's different , yeah , and it's one of the many ways that patriarchy hurts men too . So , and it took someone saying like that's transphobic for me to be like oh okay , yeah , now I get it .

Like I get that amorphous , like I'm a little uncomfortable with this .

That was right when the movie Home Springs with Andy Sandberg came out , and I have a thing for Andy Sandberg too , like that guy , like he's funny and handsome and it's just like mwah . So , and actually that's all three of them , all three of them funny and handsome .

And then , while my book club was over , my husband came out , brought us some drinks or something like that , and came back in and so my friends were like what are those four things having common ? Like those four ? I don't see what those four men have in common . And I thought about it and I was just like big noses and broad shoulders .

And then I was realizing , because Pierce also fills out a shirt very nicely , but a pat a little waspy nose .

Just a little teeny little button nose and I'm like I feel about him the way that I do about , actually , robert Pattinson , where I enjoy when he's on screen and find it very , very delightful , but I'm not attracted to him except and this is I went to see the Batman and I found myself I feel that way about Robert Pattinson .

I love him as an actor , I love the choices he makes as an actor , but I'm not like oh , like you know , his fans are . But watching the Batman I was like I want to wrap myself around him like a blanket and then I realized that , in addition to all of that , it's also like emotionally broken .

My very first TV crush was Leonard Nimoy as Mr Spock , so I think maybe for me it's about eye makeup on men , because Liz Prisciler and Leonard Nimoy have a lot of eyes , oh my goodness , yeah , In the original story just .

But when I found out like lots of people thought of as Mr Spock as a sex symbol and I was just like , oh OK , I just that's just , I don't have that switch , whatever it is .

If you liked this episode , subscribe to keep overthinking with them and visit the show notes for other ways to connect .