Tracy and Emily are smart , lovable sisters who really love Lucifer for the plot yeah , the plot which they overthink .
I am here with my sister , Tracie Guy Decker .
Yes , hyphen , and I'm here with my sister , emily Guy Birkin , but she does not use a hyphen .
Together we are doing Lightbringers , where we illuminate the deeper meaning of the crime-solving devil TV show . And yes , we're overthinking it , totally overthinking it .
We overthinking it . So today I'm really excited to talk about episodes 205 and 206 , weaponizer and monster . These are some excellent episodes really good episodes , good TV , yeah , really good TV . So I'm not like it's hard to know even where to start .
Like , I kind of want to start with really fluffy things , because Tom Ellis's guyliner game is really good on point . So much guyliner , I kind of want to start there . But no , ok , so let's do them in order a little bit . So weaponizer we see there's a couple of things that happen kind of for the first time , like .
So we really get to meet this new villain who has kind of a short arc , uriel , the brother Uriel , and we also see Dan and Lucifer bond in a significant way First time .
I think it's the first time they've actually like enjoyed each other's company over the body bag and weaponizer movie yeah , franchises , and I love how Chloe is like yeah , can we stick to basics , Although this is oddly adorable and they're both like looking at each other like oh , I don't know if I like that .
Yeah , yeah , yeah . There's also a moment in weaponizer where Lucifer propositions Ella and she actually seems down with it for a moment . She thinks about it for a second which , like later in the series , like , is like off limits . She even , and maybe she protests too much , but at some future point she will refer to him like a brother .
But in this , in this episode , this early part of season two , he's like well , the bed in there is pretty skeezy , but I think it'll work .
But don't tell the tech you are .
We need to be discreet because she doesn't like it Right .
So well , I would like to talk about Uriel a little bit , because I find his power fascinating . The pattern recognition .
The pattern recognition because the first time I watched the episode I'm sitting there and there's like some random dude moving a skateboard , like two inches I mean , yeah , it was not far at all , barely , barely moving it so like she may well have tripped over it , because I was watching this time I was like you really didn't move it far .
You didn't move it far , but just enough so that she actually hurts her I mean not hurts herself , like , but like she's going to get a bruise rather than just like , oh , this is annoying , and that was enough to send everything going . And so , like I'm watching this and I'm like who is this woman ?
Okay , she's yelling at her son , there's a dog running out , what the heck is going on . And then , oh , this is what caused the accident , and that , like , I think that was just well . For one thing , I have no idea how they choreographed it for the and like I know you get multiple takes .
It's not like this is actually happening , but it was just , it was well choreographed scene that they did because it required so many different elements to get right . So that was fascinating . And then the way that Uriel is able to use patterns , kind of against the people he considers as adversaries is fascinating .
And that also makes it make complete sense why he would be the one to say like I'm enforcing your bargain with dad because he can see the pattern of what's going to happen . Well , and he says it .
But it's interesting because the thing he doesn't want to happen is for dad to forgive mom , which is really really fascinating . It is fascinating . It's also interesting , just like in an overthinking at moment .
I've spent some time looking at the names , which , oh , also side note , I can't believe it took us this long to mention the fact that I share my second last name is the same as Chloe's . Oh yeah , by the way , my husband's family spent some time in the LA suburbs , so maybe we're related , maybe I don't know .
Anyway , sorry , that's really just a fun note because I don't have anything more to say about it . But I've been looking at names and Uriel is a name that's actually from like old literature about there is an angel called Uriel , the Men of Deals , seems to . I cannot find any reference like original reference . I mean we've said this before .
The source text for our show is the comic book . It's in the comic book . I can't find it in the source text for the comic book .
Uriel means , as far as I can tell , it's from the word for light or , and so it's about it's the light of God , which is sort of interesting , about illuminating patterns maybe , and also as a foil for this , like bad translation of light bringer or morning star , I don't know . I don't know exactly where I'm going with that .
So , but because I was looking at Uriel's name , I also was looking for Amenadiel and , as I said , I don't think it's it's hard to do because it's not actually , but from like Amen , as in like , may it be so , and it would have been like deal is more like DL , like of God , like sort of like a , you know , kind of like a , like an amen to God , I
guess you could make .
Anyway , sorry , this is a total tangent , but no it's interesting and it makes sense , since Amenadiel is the firstborn too .
I mean that that's , it does make a certain amount of sense If that is , in fact , yeah , yeah , yeah .
And even if , like this is one of the reasons why I love Neil Gaiman is that he populates his fictional universe with things that are plausible and does the research to make it fit , so that if you do spend time overthinking things , you're like it's still it's , it works , it's roughly .
It resonates anyway .
It resonates in my yeah , but and one of the things that I think is really interesting about , especially when we look at these two together Uriel as a villain like his story arc is actually pretty short , where he's actually an actor , an agent in the , in the action , and I think that there are those in the Lucy fandom who sort of call him kind of like
stupid or like like ineffective .
But I actually think , if we look at it from the bigger picture of the storytelling that's happening , it makes sense that we dispense with him pretty quickly so that we can then really dig into grief and guilt and shame and like those very human emotions that were were actually interested , so that , so that we take the story away from the action of like sword
fights and bring it back to the very human action of like processing grief and guilt , which I think is really actually very interesting . And for those purposes he's actually a very effective villain , oh goodness , in terms of setting up our characters , to really investigate who they are .
Well , the other thing I think is helpful to think about with Uriel is the last thing he says before he dies , other than whispering in Lucifer's ear , is I didn't see that coming Right and that bothered me . Because I don't particularly , for whatever reason , that phrase does not resonate with me . I find it kind of cheesy .
And because that phrase bothers me , I notice that it pops up multiple times throughout the series . Like people say it a lot , now , in this particular instance I recognized in a writing sense it being a satisfying last words for someone who's , for the guy whose power is to recognize powers at pattern recognition .
But I think that its use here and throughout the series is one of the is kind of part of the argument of the whole series , which is the importance of free will and choice Interesting yes . And that's why , for whatever reason it resonates with Joe or Ildy or whoever the writing team is that continues to use this .
And then that is also where , like I don't think Uriel is stupid at all , I think he did not in any way anticipate how Earth and willing hell had changed his brother .
I think just fundamentally . Didn't he knew that Chloe was important to Lucifer .
I don't he underestimated just how important yes , and I think it's in part because he does not understand humanity . He does not comprehend Earth , humanity , any of that .
So , like he's , you know your cute little detective Exactly , although I will say I would love to know the sequence of events that would result from pressing that one piano key that would lead to Chloe dying in three days .
And like , how , and I like I know , Right , because I mean , we saw him in the previous episode in the um , no , sorry , in the same episode he like bumped somebody who was walking , made him drop his newspaper , and then that caused um came out to see yeah , kids happening .
So , like .
we've seen how , like the butterfly wing , yeah , Causes a war and you know , on the other side of the world . We've we have actually seen it in this episode , those choreographed moments .
I just kind of wish I could see the like the Rube Goldberg machine of fate Related to that .
Not that .
I want to see her die , but I'm just so curious , so , yeah , that's . That's what I find Like .
There is something really I'm not even sure what , like what the right literary term is to have the two of them fight in that ruined church , um , which presumably was your , your choice of venue . Maybe that's not clear . Um , but like there's something really .
Um , there is something I guess apropos is the word I'm looking for to have the , the , this angel and fallen angel and demon fighting over the fate of the goddess of all creation and one human being , um , in a ruined church .
You know , when he throw it , when Lucifer throws the baptismal font through the window , like I don't know , there's something really like satisfying about that , you know .
I actually I think it's . It was a Lucifer's choice , because I took him throwing the font through the window as his signal to maze that he needed her help .
Oh , maybe because it doesn't otherwise explain how she , how she showed up . Yeah , she has showed up to save him before . So I just , I just accepted that she was like keeping her demon tabs on him .
The reason why I think that that was a signal is because there was no other . There was no explicit reason for him to throw it through the window .
Yes , you're right , I'll buy that .
I'll buy that . Um , you know , the other thing that I I love about this episode is the point where Lucifer gets angry . Gets so angry when they're like you know , we don't know what dad wants . Yeah , cause he will . The selfish bastard won't tell us and like he is absolutely right , like everyone is , is doing things based on guesswork .
Um , and then that gets again to like the kind of overarching theme of of free will , like there's a reason why God doesn't tell his children and humanity what is expected , what is wanted or anything like that . And it's because giving free will , allowing people to make their own choices , is such an important aspect of creation .
Yeah , well , we come back to that again in the second episode that we're talking about , when the goddess , as Charlotte , shows a men a deal where Lucifer buried the body to encourage him to grieve and he sort of you know , with tears on his face , says God could have stopped this from happening . Um , so we did . Yeah , we come back to that .
Yeah , that gets to one of the reasons why I like monster so much . Yeah , even though in some ways it's a very brutal episode . It is brutal seeing , like the um , the wedding scene at the beginning , which is like it's so funny and weird .
But it also , like you know , once you find out that the bride is a makeup artist for Hollywood , like oh , okay , I can see people doing that . I don't know how that would work , that you give everyone in zombie makeup , but , okay , like that's kind of fun . Um , but you know it's supposed to be her wedding day and you know , boom .
And then you meet Freddie Loomis , who is just seems like a mensch . You know , he just seems like a sweet guy who wants to cook for people . Um , and like the way that he greets , uh , detective Decker is like , you know , you look like a Haggleschlag kind of girl . It's just like , like what a sweetheart . And boom , he's gone .
Like that that's it's hard to see . But , um , the theme with that one of the , the shooter who he really wants to punish himself and so he's doing horrific things , um , um , is comprehensible , if , if not understandable , if you know what I mean .
They'd say they talk about that explicitly when Dan is feeling sympathy and close like yeah well , I know you wouldn't start revenge shooting innocent people , you know . But I there's something so real about the way even the goddess even says it , that different people grieve differently .
And the way that Lucifer is just acting out and like , just like , throwing himself into debauchery , but it can't last . And then he has that moment while he's playing the piano and he just like has a breakdown and sends everybody out and yeah , the song he's playing is Unforgiven by Metallica .
Oh is it ?
Nice .
Nice . I remember going like I know that melody , what is that song ? And I looked it up so and . I was like , oh good , good choice . So , yeah , yeah , there's . There's only so much like distraction you can , you can do and the same way with with the shooter , like he was displacing his grief , but it's not going anywhere .
Like the only way to handle it is to deal with it .
And that's actually one of the reasons why I so appreciate this episode is because of the final scene when Lucifer shows Linda his face , and it's because this was the first time I really felt like I I saw how well the show is with dealing with mental health , because there's the , you know , there's just the text which is like the devil shows is therapist , is
his devil face . But then there's the subtext of like the fear that if you let people see who you really are , that they will not like you anymore . That is kind of terrifyingly made evident in this .
Yeah , I mean and they lay it out when the scene before Khloe says every time you say you're evil or the devil or you're bad , like I know , that's not who you are and he's like you have no idea who I am or what I've done . And then the very next scene he shows Linda who he really is and she cannot handle it , she can't comprehend it , she cannot .
I mean , she is catatonic as a result and I think you wouldn't . Be well , before we started actually recording Lightbringers , we were talking about the show and you said that about how that is a metaphor for the fear of showing who you really are to the airpist or a confidant or whatever , and the fear of being rejected for it , and I was like you're right .
So well and that it reminds me of .
So I can remember , right after Robin Williams passed away , there were comedians talking about the fact that when a comedian isn't funny in front of you , that means they trust you because they can let you behind the like the thing they get praised for sure , yes , and how this particular comedian who was writing about it was saying like , and oftentimes people will
say like , where's the funny guy ? And so you put the mask back up again . We now know with Robin Williams , there was some medication that he was on that affected things , and there's no way of knowing exactly what was going on .
But you know , knowing like , he did have demons and someone who was able to bring such unadulterated joy to so many people like was fighting with demons . It was important for me to understand that that , like , what people present is not necessarily who they are . And you know it's important to like , try to let people be who they are and so like .
And even though Lucifer always tells the truth , he's always saying like I'm the devil , I was like , that's exactly what I am . He also knows nobody's gonna believe him , so he can just you know it's . He's still wearing a mask , almost literally .
And the fact that in the same episode we have a similar situation where May's shows Trixie her real face and Trixie's response was like there's that pause where you're like oh dear , and you can see May's being like she's got the same look on her face that Lucifer had , like how's this gonna go ?
Waiting for the other two Before Trixie goes drop , yeah , and Trixie goes cool .
It was like the most heartwarming , wonderful and like it is also still like there's still a mask there because it's Halloween . There's like . You know she's a child , she can't possibly recognize that .
That's impossible for her to have done that in the two seconds that she had her eyes closed , right , but it's still just really , really heartwarming to see like there is acceptance it was .
I think it was also an important foil to what then happened with Lucifer , and Linda like to know that the possibility is there for exceptions , yeah , yeah . Another overthinking at moment , speaking of Trixie , is in weaponizer . When Trixie's like read me this story and Chloe's like , no , this is your bedtime story , and she's like no , read it now .
And so Chloe's like what's going on ? And she tells her like I'm sorry , I'm the parent of an only child who's about the same age as Trixie . Like that ain't how it works . Like when your kid is acting out and you're like what's going on , they're not like well , here's what I'm worried about , mama . It's just not how it happened .
I mean , I know we needed to like keep it .
We need to fit into a 45 minute show .
Also , even with the explanation that we got , like Trixie's scared for her mother's safety because her mom is a cop and grandma says it's dangerous and she was just in that car accident . Trixie watched her mom get like stalked by Malcolm in that warehouse Like just a few months ago and it's the car accident she's freaking out about .
Okay , all right , I'll just go with it , but maybe she's just now processing what happened with Malcolm . Maybe that actually seems more likely .
Yeah , although did you notice that the book is a corolline ? Corolline , I did , yes . Shout out to Neil Gaiman Yep , yep , yep . The way that Trixie is written is like realistic-ish , right , because the whole like I wanted to be a princess last year when I was seven . I'm eight , I'm a grown up now .
Like there's something to that , my eight year old , who's always wanted to be like his favorite Ninja Turtle characters and licensed characters , this year , like I want to be something spooky this year . And so he went as death with a scythe , yeah , and like he was just like I'm going to scare so many people . I'm like three and a half feet tall .
You're going to be adorable .
I'm imagining a comic book written by Neil Gaiman about a little death Not his death from the Sandman Like a new one , like with like a little death who's like has . Like a Napoleon complex . Stop laughing , I'm here to take your soul .
So , and to be clear , my youngest is not three and a half feet tall . I think he's four foot two , which is slightly better , but yeah , so that's like there's aspects that I think are really good in how they handle Trixie , the way that they handle Trixie with Mays . But yeah , I agree with you , that's not how I would .
Yeah , she's not as fully formed a character as I mean . There are definitely moments where Trixie is a plot device and there are moments when she has you know what , especially vis-a-vis Mays . But yeah , that's actually speaking of Mays . So at the end of Weaponizer he's killed Uriel .
He shows up at the penthouse like just devastated , and we find out later he must have gone and buried the angel body . I guess Mays helped him . Like , where's Mays ? Yeah , like she just I don't know .
I mean , Maybe they found the spot together and she did the actual work while he went home .
Yeah , maybe I mean for the purposes of the show , like needed to be a moment between the goddess and .
Mother and Son and like .
Mays would have been a third wheel and so I understand why she wasn't there . Kind of storytelling wise , but as , just like following the events of the day , I think that she would have been there , especially like as devastated as he was she knew him really well I don't think she would have left him alone . Yeah .
She was just like wrecked yeah , although I think like I could see the burying Uriel being too much for him . Yeah , and her saying I'll take care of this , you go back home .
Yeah , yeah , I'll buy that .
So , like you know , if he was like I gotta do this and like they get started , and she's like , no , you can't do this , Go home yeah .
I'll buy that .
You know , one thing that I noticed , and it's partially because I rewatched our first episode where I talked about the chest hair . Yeah , I noticed too , they let it happen in , like this episode .
So I'm thinking , like he just isn't manscaping because he's grieving , maybe , maybe , like I think that might be what's going on , because there's definitely missing in other episodes . Yeah , it's definitely missing in other episodes . Definitely is Definitely so , like you know , he looks like a homeless magician .
So I also I love the way that Chloe describes him as , like you know , cause , like something's up with him and Dan's like something's up with him . Always , he's like he's weird and she's like , no , no , no , he doesn't have his usual glee for life . I'm like , yeah , that's a good way of describing how he usually is Him acting out .
I find very compelling to watch , even though , like it would be infuriating to deal with .
It would be very difficult to watch someone you care about behave that way .
Yeah Well , particularly if they're not telling you why , and so you don't have any sense of how to process this . Like , are you just being a jerk ? Are you like , clearly going through something ? Is it something that there's something can be done about , or is it just yeah ? Yeah , I do really appreciate , because she ends up being an antagonist .
But the goddess , in these two episodes you do see the caring parent in there . You know the way that she well , she offers . She offers to go back to hell , and it's a good thing that Lucifer didn't take her up on it because Uriel was planning on destroying her .
She comforts Lucifer , even though she's horrified , and then she leaves him alone because that's what he needs . He needs to be left alone . She recognizes that like he's going to grieve in this acting out way and there's nothing I can do .
A men-a-deals is going to take on all the responsibility because he's the oldest child and that's what they do , and he needs to let go and be sad and grieve , and so I'm going to take him to Uriel's resting place so he can do that and all of that . It's just . It's very , very good parenting .
I think she fulfills the pattern that Uriel named for her Right . Like he said , I know she's going to go up and he's going to take her . You know he's going to forgive her . I mean , you did what she'd been here three minutes , you know .
So I think there's , yeah , and I think we had .
we had to have her kind of have some sympathy , like knowing what's coming , or else we wouldn't have tolerated her for as like as long as we do If she had been like just scheming all the time .
And then there's also like there's some relatability in the . I think it's in the weaponizer episode , where she's on the phone as she's coming into her office and she's like , yes , I understand , children need to wear pants to school every day . And then , when Maze comes in , she's like the number of daily tasks that I need to complete is just impossible .
And I'm like , oh , I feel better knowing the goddess feels that way too Right Breach Although and this is one of my fluffy things the way that she looks in those long , like flowy pants , oh my God .
I don't know if I want to be her or date her , because I know , Well , it's part of .
it is just like I'm just never going to show my legs again because they're like short and so short and stubby and she has legs that just go to the sky .
Everything is just like long and drapey and flowy . It's gorgeous .
And then she wears them again . Where's another pair with the one ?
Every outfit the white with the blue over and yeah she's oh my goodness , she's a little bit superhuman , that Trisha Halfer . She really is .
Yeah , I have . I have a little little lady crush on Trisha Halfer . Yeah , the other . The other little thing that I wanted to mention is in Monster , because that originally aired on Halloween in 2016, . I think , and I think , it was Halloween 2016 .
I have it up on my screen right now it was indeed October 31st 2016 .
Oh nice so that was , you know , like about a week before I lost all hope in all things I love the time Less than a week , less than a week . There's about less than a week , so it was on Halloween , so that was all Halloween themed , and one of the things they did was they used a lot of names that are Easter eggs from horror movies .
So Edgar , for Edgar Allen Poe not figure out , peggy Russo , his , his bride . The Peggy's ex-boyfriend was named Jason Myers , which is a mashup of Jason and Mike Myers . The food truck owner , freddie , last name is Loomis , which is a common last name , like it just is a kind of a trope last name in horror movies .
And then the husband and wife doctor team , jack and Sally from Nightmare for Christmas .
Oh yeah , like the corpse bride . Oh , no Nightmare for Christmas . The other Tim Burton one , yeah .
Yeah , and then Wes Williams is the killer . Oh yes , Wes . So like Wes Craven , they really did a nice job of just kind of scattering those through . So several of them I realized as they happened , but several I was . I'm not quite the horror aficionado , to be like oh yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , but it was , it was , it was nice . I really appreciate it .
When writers do that kind of stuff . I'm just like they're . They're entertaining themselves and giving us little Easter eggs .
Cool . Well , I think maybe we overthink it enough .
Do you have any ? You had some fluff , we did the fluff , we did the fluff .
We did the the chest hair , which was proof that he was letting himself go .
Yeah , no manscaping .
Maybe I didn't shower and I talked about the guy liner game .
Guy liner game . That was the other fluffy . Okay yeah , all , right , yeah , one other . So when , when Lucifer's trying out his new catchphrase , welcome to devil time , you're like what does that even mean she knows what it means .
I have no idea what it means .
And charisma carpenters delivery .
I can't help but see her as Cordelia from the Buffy and Angel series . I mean she's Cordelia all grown up , but yeah , she's yeah .
I had to work . She's pretty good . I also like the at the end , the confrontation where she ends . What was the ? The , the manager , the agent .
His name was Ryan Goldberg Goldberg .
Yes , I was just like .
I mean Ryan Goldberg , I think , is Mishpacha , I think he's a Jew of color , yeah , yeah , well , I was wondering if they . I mean it's too bad , he was like a bad guy , but yeah , but no representation , no representation .
Well , I was wondering if it was like they came up with you know the character name and then had colorblind casting and and we're like all right , let's go with it , or I liked it . I mean yeah , yeah . But so Ryan Goldberg like hides behind her ?
Yeah , he was he totally does .
He was pretty pretty nebulous .
He that Ryan Goldberg ?
Yeah , he , he was a nebish and a snore , yeah , a thieving one at that . A thieving snore , yeah .
So all right , I'm calling it All right .
Our theme song is Ferrell Angel Waltz by Kevin MacLeod from Incompetentcom , Licensed under Creative Commons by Attribution 4.0 License . Visit the show notes for the URL . I am an artificially generated voice powered by Narrakeedcom . Lucifer is a Warner Brothers production that first aired on Fox and then Netflix .
Tracy and Emily are not affiliated with Fox , Netflix nor WB . If you liked this episode , subscribe to keep overthinking with them and visit the show notes for other ways to connect .