Welcome to the libido lounge where we focus on all things love, lust, and libido. We believe that fabulous sex is important to health as exercise and good food. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the lounge. I'm libido expert and your host, doctor Diane Mueller. I am so excited to introduce you to Sarah Intelligater tier today. She is a divorce attorney who has turned into a relationship expert.
And what a cool combination to be talking to couples for so long about all the things that they did not make their relationship work. I'm just so excited to have you with us today, Sarah. There's so many questions I have. I know I'm going to want to talk to you for a lot longer than the fifteen minutes we have. And let's just orient you to and orient everybody to you.
Can you tell us a little bit about like what was happening, what you were noticing and being a divorce attorney, where all of a sudden, you really got inspired to open the second business of working with couples and of helping support relationships? Yeah, of course. So I have been a divorce attorney for close to twenty years. And, I started observing patterns over and over and over in all of these marriages that have ended or coming to an end.
And I started thinking that if I can get to people before they get to my office, if I can show them the reason that marriages fail and fall apart or relationships fall apart, then maybe I can prevent them from ever setting foot in my office. So I wrote a book. It's called Live, Laugh, Find True Love. And, it kind of breaks these patterns down into six categories and and teaches people what not to do by, showing them the mistakes that others have made and repeatedly do make. I love it.
I'm as a functional medicine doctor. Everything I do in the world is about the root prevention and all that. So I love that you're doing that from a relationship standpoint. And let's talk a little bit about, like, your book. And I know you had mentioned that there's these bad f words, and I'm sure people want to know about what those are and what they mean beyond the, you know, the four letter one. Yeah. Yep. Exactly. That's the big f words here.
And they're, you know, they're like the fail factors, the six f words. And, so these are the reasons that that all relationships, at least from my experience, fall apart and what you need to watch out for when you're entering into your own relationship. So I'll just mention them. I won't go into detail into them at this point, but, their fundamental values, meaning people don't share fundamental values. Fear, foundation, fixing, family, and fairy tale. And so those are the patterns.
So do you feel because I think we probably won't have time to go into all of those today, and I know people can get your book into to go into more detail. But do you feel like there's one or two of them that are like, oh, these are like, I wonder if, like, one calls foundational. Like, is there one or two of them? They're like, this is like, we have to get this one so important. We have to get this one right. Yes, absolutely.
So although the F words are not really listed in any particular order in the book because they're really all equally important, I do think that fundamental values is actually the most important and the one that you can't really progress into a relationship unless the partners share fundamental values. So I do list it first, and I do think it is the most important. And fundamental values, when I talk about them, they're distinguishable from things like fleeting interests. Right?
You might be 20 years old. You might love to travel the world, cast off all your worldly possessions. But is that necessarily where you see yourself when you're in your forties or fifties? So that might not necessarily be a fundamental value so much as it is a fleeting interest. And you're looking for a partner who shares your fundamental values.
And there are exercises in the book for how to define your own fundamental values so that, you know, first of all and foremost, what your own fundamental values are. And then you are now on a journey to find a partner who shares those fundamental values with you.
So the question I think that other people might be wondering that I'm definitely wondering is what do you recommend then if somebody say they discover they do your work and like, oh, my gosh, I know my fundamental values and they're in a long relationship and their partner has very, very different fundamental values. Is that do you find like that's a deal breaker? Is there a way to work with that? I don't think it's a deal breaker per se.
I think it depends how dissonant the fundamental values are. I think it depends, how long the couple's been together and and, you know, what they've gone through. And and maybe a lot of times people think they don't share fundamental values, but the fact that they've been together for so long means that they probably do beneath the surface. Like they're they're not actually defining what the true fundamental fundamental values are. Right.
But for the most part, I feel that in order to navigate life together in a similar way and achieve goals in a similar way and kind of want to live life in a similar way, we need to have those fundamental values.
So, yes, if you if you are in a relationship and you discover that your fundamental values are not aligned, it is it is something that you should definitely really consider because it's not something that necessarily, is as big of a problem when you're just getting married, just the two of you. But if you decide to add children to the mix, you know, as problems arise and things come up in life, I do think that it can lead to the breakdown of the relationship.
Yeah. That's basically why I'm divorced. That's what I saw after ten years of relationship of finally analyzing that and being like I mean, it's exactly the way I describe it to people around, like, it's not a problem with, like, him or I as people. It's that fundamentally, our value system's different. So I I really love that you're approaching it that way.
And then in thinking about, like, dating and when, you know, people are setting up relationships and let's say they read your book and they get their fundamental values really dialed, do you have advice on, like, you know, when in the relationship they should really start having these kind of questions and asking these things and learning that? Do you recommend that people actually ask this directly? What are your advice? What's your advice around that?
Yeah. So, I call it's kind of part and parcel of fundamental values. I call it the job interview. Dating is a job interview, and there is actually an exercise in the book where you list your fundamental value and then you're supposed to come up with a couple of questions to ascertain whether your date shares those fundamental values. And it doesn't mean that you're just sitting there with this exhaustive laundry list of questions on your first or second date. Right?
But it does mean that you kind of have in the back of your mind the questions that you want to ask or the things you want to listen for as you do go on a first date, as you do go on a second date. Date. So I think that the entire courtship process from the very first date until you decide to commit to the relationship is a job interview. You're determining whether this candidate gets the position for the absolutely most important job in the entire world, which is your life partner.
Yeah. I really love that. And I love that your book is breaking it down to that level. And also that it's like I had an image for a second of, I think, a sitcom I saw a while ago of, like, somebody, like, looking at their hand for the questions to ask. And that's not what we're saying here. Right?
It's just it's really training people, like, especially with all of the matchmaking services, it's really training people, just like with being employers, like learning how to do a good job interview and finding the right people. It's really the same thing. It's like dating interview, right? You're teaching people how to go on dates Well, yeah. And I mean, you know, and I say it in the book, but it's like you wouldn't hire a candidate for the job unless it's a modeling job or an acting job.
You wouldn't hire a candidate for a job because that person is good looking or so attractive, or we have so much in common. Right? You're you're you would hire that candidate because the candidate is right for the position. Yes. Yeah. It makes so much sense. And then is there anything else in, you know, the the six s? Is there anything else in the success? What would you say would be the next most important f if we were to stage them and categorize them to focus on?
I think fear is probably the next most significant just because I find that fear is the number one reason relationships fail. People stay in relationships because they're afraid that they might not find someone better. Or, you know, maybe you're you're getting older, your biological clock is ticking. This person is there. They'll do. Maybe there are certain insecurities that you have around the relationship or around yourself.
And so I think fear is is kind of it keeps us from leaving a relationship and we justify to ourselves why we should stay in the relationship, rather than listening to what I think is kind of the opposite of fear, which is our intellect, which is our reasonable, rational voice. So how do you think?
Because I feel like that's a a really challenging thing for people, especially when there's so many so many times when we're dating, we've already been hurt and we've already had, you know, that the heartbreak, the repair, all the things that, you know, especially if if it's like divorce with children. And there can be so much natural fear of almost just like our our bodies and our minds trying to protect us, right. To protect us from getting hurt.
So do you have any advice for people on like how to start discerning between what is like, you know, what is like, okay, well, my intuition saying like, this person's not right versus like, actually, that's just my fear because I don't want to get hurt again or in a relationship like my intuition saying I need to leave, but I don't want to because of the fear. Like, how do we really begin to tell which is which? Like, what advice do you give on that?
Well, I think that's you hit the nail on the head. I think we all have an intuition and we all hear what our intuition is saying. I kind of liken it to like Jiminy Cricket. Like Pinocchio here is what Jiminy Cricket is saying, but he ignores it and then he ends up in a cage, right? So we all hear what our intuition is telling us.
We just shush it and sweep it under the rug because we don't wanna deal with the inconvenient thing that happens next, which is that if we listen to our intuition, we have to end the relationship. So one of the things that I kind of talk about, just to put things in perspective, is I kind of approach it from a more like philosophical standpoint. Fear is a fight or flight response. Fear is the thing that has protected us our whole lives. Like, right?
We we know not to jump into shark infested waters because our fear says, don't do that. You'll get eaten up a little hybrid or you'll get hurt. Don't touch a hot stove. You're going to get hurt, right? And that's instantaneous in the moment to protect you in that moment. But fear doesn't really protect us long term. Right? Fear doesn't it's not looking out for what's going to happen to us ten years from now, twenty years from now. Fear is really it's a very short term response.
Our intelligence, our intellect, our intuition, that is looking to protect us long term. Right? And so if we think about fear and, you know, and the hard thing is that because fear has kept us safe, we learn to trust it. But fear hasn't really kept you safe long term. It's kept you safe in the short term. And so we think about this as a more long term proposition, which obviously a committed relationship is. We have to think fear isn't my friend.
Fear is just kind of, this warm safety blanket that's keeping me protected in the instant moment, but it's not looking out for me long term. My intellect, my intelligence is. And it takes a lot of self reflection, a lot of strength, a lot of bravery and courage to take a step back and say, yeah, I really wanna be in this relationship. I don't wanna go through a breakup. I am afraid of these things, But people should be a lot more afraid of divorce.
They should be a lot more afraid of, you know, dividing assets and sharing custody of their children. And these aren't things they're thinking about when they're going on a first or second date or they're in a, you know, five month relationship or whatever. They're not thinking about sharing custody of their would be children, but they should be. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate that. And I like that the distinction between short and long term thinking. I think we use it as humans.
We do this so often in health with, like, all of our decisions, health and mental, emotional and relational stuff. It's so easy to be like, even simple things like, oh, I'm going to have chocolate cake and just one day, and then one day turns into two. And the next thing we know, it's five and years go by, and then we have diabetes. Right? And so it's so easy sometimes to just see that short term without playing that long term out. And so I appreciate the strength in that too.
Are you are you then guiding people with, like, certain questions to ask themselves as well to help distinguish or like what's can you can you speak a little more granularly on, like, that distinction between, okay, well, long term is this intuition? Is this fear? Because because I can also see, right, like long term, say we're in a long term relationship or say we're starting a relationship. We see it's long term.
There's also that part, I think, of humans where it's like, especially if we're excited for that person and excited to be married or committed, there can be like that. That excitement of like that desire can also almost overwhelm that intuition. So how do we distinguish also from like, oh, my gosh, like, I'm just this has got to be the person I'm so excited. I want to be in relationship and ultimately choosing the wrong person. Is that where some of these other f's come in?
Or can you talk a little bit about that? Absolutely. So, that kind of speaks to fairy tale a little bit that we have this notions, very romanticized notion of marriage and the wedding day and the proposal and all of these things that, you know, social media obviously doesn't help that along. But, you know, that that understanding that in a fairy tale, they get married and they live happily ever after, but we never delve into what the happily ever after really looks like.
And there's this whole lifetime of the happily ever after. And I always think that, a signpost of a good relationship isn't how you work, you know, how how things are when they're wonderful and good. It's how you work through obstacles and things when they're bad and not not necessarily bad between the two people, but like when life throws stuff your way? Have you worked through it?
And that kind of speaks a little bit to the F word foundation, which I break down into five pillars, which are honesty, trust, teamwork, respect, and communication. So that kind of falls within the ambit of teamwork. Right. I talk about how infatuation is sort of like these like butterflies in your stomach and how they take over everything. And that is not something that should be relied on.
Like you're not in a in a place to make rational decisions until you've distinguished between that infatuation, those butterflies and and kind of reality. And you've really grounded yourself and you've settled down from that. But it is hard because our primary urges, right, our primal urges are to procreate. Right? It's like that's one of our biggest urges in life.
And so it comes as no surprise that we are infatuated when we meet someone new, like just the feelings, the hormones that are raging through our bodies. Right. But we still always have our intelligence. We still can like we're able to function in life, right? We still go to work. We still are able to get our responsibilities done. So we still have the ability to take a step back and say, so infatuated right now. Like, I'm so obsessed. We've all had that feeling.
But I I am recognizing that it is that, and I'm not in a position to make decisions for the rest of my life at this very moment. I'm having fun, which is great. Have fun. Dating should be fun. But, like, just know that your your intellect still is there. Yeah. It's a really important distinction. And I wanna go here to one thing that you said that I think is it just comes up so, I think, frequently, and it's under one of your apps. I forget which f you said it was under, which is communication.
Which f was that under? Foundation. Foundation. Yeah. So are there any then foundational? We can we can play with that. Were there any foundational communication things that I do feel like there's a lot of different techniques out there. You know, like love language books talks about different things that are related to it. Nonviolent communication, there's attachment theories.
There's a lot of different things out there and models that really speak to how we innately communicate differently and how to, you know, how to really work with this. Are there any, like, foundational, like, one or two? Like, these are the things that have to be in place from a communication standpoint. I think communication needs to be open, honest, transparent.
But like the one example I love to give and this is such a cliche, but, like a woman puts on an outfit and she's in a heterosexual relationship and she goes and she asks her, you know, her boyfriend says, you know, how do I look? What do you think this dress? And he goes, Oh, you look great. But he doesn't actually think she looks great. Like, maybe he doesn't think that right? Why is he saying that one? He's afraid to speak the truth because she might react. Maybe she has in the past.
She's conditioned him to lie to her. Maybe he doesn't wanna hurt her feelings, whatever it is. Right? But what if he said, you know, it's not the most flattering dress that I've seen on you. I think I've seen you look better. It's not you. It's the dress. But like, you know, I don't think it looks great on you. Right? And what if she got super angry at him and starts yelling at him and like, you know, gives him the silent treatment or whatever she does? Right.
Well, she's teaching him that in the future, he should be dishonest with her. He should not communicate openly and honestly. And if she asked the question, she should be seeking an honest answer, not just, you know, fishing for a compliment. And so I think that there's, a way that we communicate with each other that's a dance. Like we teach each other what is okay to say and what isn't.
And when we negatively reinforce certain types of communication that is honest and transparent and open, we're causing a breakdown in communication in the relationship. And I think it happens so often. So I just urge people to make sure that when you're communicating, if you're afraid of your partner's reaction or response, maybe you're not in the right relationship. Communication needs to be open and honest, respectful, transparent.
There's a way of saying things that's respectful and way of saying things is disrespectful. But, you know, but be honest. Yeah. I appreciate so much of what you say there. It's a it's reminding me also of like something I talk about in my work, which is don't fake orgasms. Right? We're teaching partners. It's like this a different version of the same thing. It's Oh, yeah. Eventually teaching partners that we like what what what they're doing, and that's gonna get more of that thing then.
So it's just another example. And I really appreciate the questions component of this too, because I think so often so often we ask questions as humans and we don't actually want to know the truth. So it's like that whole concept of, like, we ask a question and you want you know, you want a good relationship, then you have to be open to whatever that answer is.
And if you're not prepared for it, then maybe the answer is not asking the question is what would you what would you how would you comment on that? Well, I think you should be able to ask the question. But I think you need to be prepared for the response. And again, I think that both partners need to be giving honest answers, but they need to be giving them in a respectful way. Like, there's a way of saying, hey, you know, that dress doesn't look that great on you.
You know, I've seen you look better, right? That's honest. That's respectful. Versus like, you look so horrible, But you're saying the same thing, right? But it's the way you're saying it. And, the way that we say things to each other then breeds a reaction.
And it sets into trajectory, a whole chain reaction of where the relationship is going to go and how these two people are going to interact with each other down the road, whether they are going to respect each other, whether they're going to start resenting each other. Right. And it's all centered around this communication. Yeah. Thank you. We've packed so much into these twenty minutes. It's so good.
I think there's so many different layers and things to consider and definitely set a good foundation. I want to make sure everybody knows how to get a hold of you and the really unique, I just, it's just pretty amazing. The background you have to be able to do this work that you're doing. I want to make sure people know how to get a hold of you. And we'll talk about that.
But before we do real fast, is there like one, like final concluding, like if you could wrap all your years of a divorce attorney and relationship expert down into, like, a couple of sentences of advice, is there anything you would distill it down to to tell people know your worth and don't settle. Beautiful. Yeah, that's really perfect. Well, how can people get a hold of you? So they can find me on Instagram at Sarah dot a dot intelligator dot esq.
They can also find me at my website, which is lafamilylawpractice.com. And they can also get my book, which I'm dropping plates here. You can get my book, Live, Laugh, Find True Love wherever books are sold. And, hopefully you will never need me in the future. And we'll have all of you all of that in and Sarah's show notes for you guys. And thank you so much for your time today. This has been wonderful. I love your book.
I will get myself a copy and thank you so much for the work you're doing and for being here with us. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Well, that concludes another episode of The Lounge, you guys. Thank you so much for being here. This is Doctor. Diane signing off, reminding you to always stay sexy, always stay classy, and always remember to be a little badassy. See you next time. Thank you for listening to the Libido Lounge. Please don't keep me a secret.
Please share this with your friends. You can find me on YouTube, on Instagram, as well as how to work with me at mylibido.com.