So when couples talk about their relationships, you know, this this emotional part of the brain, the amygdala is firing. And I always describe the amygdala like a toddler on caffeine. But if you're looking for something that involves intimacy, it takes time. A lot of times what I have experienced is that couples who share very similar spiritual intimacies, they they do have stronger foundations because it's that value system. It's what grounds them as a couple.
So it's not a matter of, oh, it's a threat and we can't do it. It's okay. Now how are we gonna work around that? Well, it's not possible to get everything from one person. So it's okay to say, that you know, my partner doesn't quite give me everything I want in the area of emotional intimacy. But there are times when the emotional intimacy is not as full as I want from him because he is very much driven by his rational brain and sometimes I don't want to be.
Yeah. So that's when I call up my sister or I call up my best friend because they will absolutely, you know, let me do whatever I want with my emotions. And that's okay. It doesn't mean he's not the right partner for me. It doesn't mean he's cold by any means. It just means that I want something a little bit different or more. Ideally, suggest a couple that at the at the latest, they do a this is not something that you do once and you never think about again.
If you're the founders of your relationship, how are you gonna make sure that it sustains all the ups and downs that are gonna come just like just like, you know, market values of a business? And you get to decide how to do that with all the tools possible. When people talk about marriage or a relationship being hard work, that is BS. Hey, everybody. Quick break in our episode to talk to you about our sponsor, MyLibidoDoc.
One of the things that we truly believe is that great sex is available to everyone, but we just have to learn how. So head over to our site to get your free copy of our e book, Five Steps to Mind Blowing Orgasms and Romance. Get the quick and easy tips to turn your sex life around, rev up your engines, and fall in deeper love and passion with yourself and your partner. So if you just go to mysexdoc.com, you will find that e book there for download. Now back to our show. Hey, everybody.
Welcome to another episode on the lounge. I'm your host, certified sexologist and libido expert, doctor Diane, and I have a treat for you today. I have with me doctor Robin Robin Buckley, and we are going to talk about so many things today. Some of them we're gonna talk about sex versus intimacy.
A lot of times these conversations are confused and I think so much of the time we focus on one of the two in these conversations and we forget that sex and intimacy are different and we forget that they're both important for the health and the maintenance of a relationship.
So we're gonna break that down, talk about strategies for both, and one of the things that I think is so cool about doctor Robin's methodology, about what part of her methodology, is taking business structure and business systems and applying that same methodology to relationship. And I think this is so valuable because as an entrepreneur and as a business owner, what I've seen in business, I do apply to life. Right? I apply to conversations that that I have about the step kids.
I apply it to things like scheduling time in my life and my day to day process for things like fantasy and pleasure and my partner and more. So I can see, like, how this is so important, and we're gonna break down some more of the nitty gritty today and tell you how to get doctor Robin's book and so many more things. So thank you so much for joining me today, doctor Robin. I'm so excited. This will be fun. Same here. Same here. So so much juicing is happening today, and let's start big picture.
Right? So let's start with this conversation of intimacy versus sex. Can you help just kinda lay some foundational found foundational groundwork for how these things are different? Yeah. So intimacy is our connection to someone else, and it isn't necessarily only involving sex. In fact, there's different types of intimacy. There's emotional intimacy, there's intellectual intimacy, there's spiritual intimacy, and there's experiential intimacy. And I think for a lot of us, we forget.
We just lump it under one category and the term intimacy is used synonymously to mean sex, and these are not the same things. As you as you can tell from this list, it's a lot more faceted than those two being interchangeable words. So intimacy, at least in my perspective and maybe yours as well, is that it creates the foundation for the potential for a really healthy sexual life. So it's very challenging to have a healthy sex life without intimacy, at least in the couples that I've worked with.
Possible, but it's probably not a sex life that is sustainable. Yeah. And I think there's so much to be said there. I relate to all of that. I actually had a personal realization recently around, like, I get all my personal realizations when I'm snowboarding, and I was snowboarding a couple weeks ago, and so I was thinking about business, like, frequently.
And I was like, maybe I should I really need to stop saying I'm a sex doc and start saying I'm an intimacy doc, and it's for exactly all those reasons because Yeah. All of those things are the things I talk to people about. And so I think defining that is so key. And one of the things in what you're saying is like, okay. Well, can sex be as deep and as fulfilling?
I think, like, when people go and and have more just, like, flings and one night stands, there can be, like, some level fulfillment in that. Do you see, like like, though that is difficult in those scenarios to get into more like this other type of intimacy which can lead to the depth of sex? Absolutely. And I am not, you know, and as I perceive you aren't, I don't judge. If people want to go out and just have random, fun, non committal sex, as long as it's safe and consensual, have at it.
%. Have no issues with that. But if you're looking for something that involves intimacy, it takes time. Takes time to know that person at that level, because very often, as strange as it might sound, intimacy is more vulnerable than sex for, I think, a good percentage of individuals, because it's really getting into the things that you value, and how you identify in terms of as a person, as a being. So it takes a more extensive time than maybe the one night stands or the sex just for fun.
Again, each has its own place and each has its own choices, but to really develop that sense of intimacy is going to then broaden the level of sexual connection to a much deeper level. Yeah. I really like when intimacy is broken down into into me see. Right? And it's, like, so, like, a great example, like, when we, like, actually break it down and kind of make these side words out of the word of, like, what's really happening there. I'm like, yes. Like you said, it's, like, more vulnerable.
Somebody is, like, seeing all the stuff, the stuff that we might personally put a label, good versus bad, and, you know, maybe there's shame and all those things. So, like, let's break this down even more, though. So you said with, like, your perspective of intimacy, did you name four different types? You named emotional, spiritual, sexual. What was the what was the other one? So there's emotional intimacy, intellectual intimacy, spiritual intimacy, and experiential intimacy.
So can we talk about those a little bit more and like more on what those are and how do people begin to cultivate those different types of intimacy with their partner? Yeah, absolutely. So when we're looking at emotional intimacy, think that might be the one that is easiest to understand.
Emotional intimacy is that safe place and safe experience of sharing your emotions, your feelings, your perspectives on different things, and knowing that you won't be judged in a negative way, that it is okay to not only share them, but express them, and and be have that connection. And again, I think that is one that that a lot of people can understand. And and keeping in mind that when we talk about intimacy, this isn't reserved just for our romantic relationships.
This this is also within our friendships, and having that emotional intimacy. And one more qualifier, you might only have some types of intimacy with certain people. I mean, in my ideal world, and when I talk with clients, it's lovely if you can have all types of intimacy with your romantic partner, but sometimes that's not possible.
And I don't think that means the relationship is bad or not going to work, it just means that maybe some social diversification is necessary so you find that intimacy with someone else. And I mean that, you know, through a friendship or otherwise. So emotional intimacy is sharing and being vulnerable. Intellectual intimacy is more around the sharing of ideas, and being able to have respectful debates with whoever it is that you want this intellectual intimacy with.
And in the political climate of The United States, we this was a big challenge for a lot of friendships, a lot of family members, and a lot of couples, because there was differing sides and differing perspectives that really started to break apart some of the intimacy because people couldn't share it with that level of respect. So that was really challenging, and I'm hopeful that that gets better for a lot of people.
Yeah. Spiritual intimacy, a lot of people hear this then, and they assume it's around religion, and it is not. Spiritual intimacy is around your values, and how you see the greater world, how you see your purpose in life, and being able to share that with a partner or with a friend, and ideally sharing it so that maybe that person can support you in achieving that. Not that they're gonna do it for you, but they can encourage you or they can keep you accountable if that's what you're looking for.
They can they can be that that sounding board for you as you share kind of the greater greater ideas. A lot of times, what I've experienced is that couples who share very similar spiritual intimacies, they do have stronger foundations because it's that value system. It's what grounds them as a couple. And then experiential intimacy is, I don't know, I laugh because I think it's sometimes the most fun. It's what are you sharing in a very, for lack of redundancy, experiential way with someone?
Are you going on trips? Do you go running with them? Do you go paint pottery? It doesn't matter what it is, but what are your shared experiences that bring you closer? Because it's those memories that again kind of weave themselves into the foundation of that relationship, whether it's a romantic relationship or whether it's a friend relationship.
So as an example, in my family, our kids are all adult children now, but once a year, we take all of our kids and their significant others on some trip. So we don't exchange holiday presents. This is their present, and we do a big family trip, so there is that connection, and we have those memories. And my kids, long before they were adults, they have that history of of shared experiences, sometimes good, sometimes bad, that keeps that that experiential intimacy within our family unit.
I I have so many questions going through my head, and, like, one of the so this is great. Like, I already love framework. Right? Because one of the things I'm initially thinking about and, like, listening to this is it was just it was just when I hear this, it's like, okay.
These are all different areas from an intimacy standpoint when we are fulfilled, when we say have our intimacy needs met, right, that we can feel more supported, we can feel more alive, we can feel more excited about life, we can there's just so many things, right, that can come out of this. And so what I'm curious about, and maybe this gets into your framework, is is there a process then that you take people through to help, like, identify, like, oh, okay.
Maybe I don't have this spiritual value based connection with my partner, and maybe I need to get that through my friend. Like, is there a process for helping people identify how they can get their needs met and with who? Yeah. Well, as objective as it sounds, because it is, with the couples I work with, we do a SWOT analysis. Okay. If you aren't familiar with that term, it's a very business based term, which looks at strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats.
And it works in business because you can build off the strengths to address the weaknesses, strengths can also help kind of create, some kind of foundation to deal with any potential threats, and then you can see opportunities. And what I'll always say to couples who are like, I don't know, Doctor. Robin, can we really like, that seems a little too business y. I said, Well, if it works in business, why couldn't it work in a relationship?
And towards intimacy, that's what we look at, is how can we use the strengths in the relationship to enhance each level of intimacy? And in order to do that, it's also identifying for each member of a couple, what does each type of intimacy look like for you? What are you sharing? Are you really strong in intellectual intimacy? How can we use that then to build spiritual intimacy if that's lacking?
So we look at it in terms of where are the strengths in the couple, where are the challenges or the weaknesses, and then what are the opportunities to build on those? And are there any threats? As an example, sometimes, and I talk to a couple who has children, we talked about them as stakeholders, internal stakeholders, the couple is working to maintain, just like in business.
And sometimes internal stakeholders are threats to experiential intimacy as a couple because they are time consuming, and they're financially consuming. So it's not a matter of, oh, it's a threat and we can't do it. It's okay, now how are we gonna work around that? So it's a very analytical way of breaking down where are the strongest points in a relationship, where are the challenges, and how can we foresee to avoid anything that could continue to damage the relationship. Yeah. I love it.
I love the Swine Network in general. Basically, I think I just like I'm a scientist by, you know, by heart, and so anytime we can, like, be a you know, find, like, systematic ways of of helping people, it just makes it so, I think, linear and obtainable. Well, as you know, a lot of it goes back to just neuroscience. And when couples talk about their relationships, you know, this this emotional part of the brain, the amygdala, is firing.
And I always describe the Just a quick break to let you know that eighty percent of women do not have orgasms from vaginal intercourse alone. So many people are not having the type of sex that is healing, that brings them closer, that brings them more connected, that is full of so much pleasure and passion that it can build bones, reduce stress, help serotonin, bring happiness, lower anxiety, improve sleep, and build a better connection with your partner.
That is what hot and modern monogamy is, is modern monogamy that brings in all of that passion, that desire, that closeness, and that healing, and that's what you can get at the Hot and Modern Monogamy Club. So if you're interested in that and I can help you, please go to modernmonogamyclub.com. Now back to our show.
And if we don't find a way to rein in the amygdala and get our logical part of our brain, the prefrontal cortex engaged, then the amygdala is going to take over, and that's where you see couples blow up, whether it's in sadness or in anger. But when you're looking at things strategically, whether it's through a SWOT analysis or otherwise, then your prefrontal cortex is there, and then you can talk about even really difficult things in a really calm way. Yeah. That's interesting, right?
You were actually taking something that is highly emotional, like our emotional intimacy also be redundant, and we're actually taking that and we're saying, oh, we're gonna actually take the emotion out of the emotional intimacy so we process it. Right? So we can get emotional intimacy. This very cyclical thing that works. Yeah. I love that so much. So, you know, when do you typically find then in, like, your work where you do something this?
So you're doing a SWOT analysis on these four different intimacy areas. When when do you find in your work then it's like, oh, this is something that that we're not actually able to say improve upon. Right? There's opportunity is, like, we just can't get to that opportunity to say, ugh. Like, we're gonna have this intellectual relationship that's just maybe not available. Is that what happens then is, like, then determining, like, because of something like that coming up, like, okay.
You need to maybe find a way of getting this need met through a friendship or through a course, or is that kinda how it works? Yeah. For a lot of a lot of us in in our society, you know, we're raised on rom coms and Disney and Hallmark and these, wonderful relationships created by fate and destiny, and I don't buy into that one bit, I think that's what leads to disappointment for a lot of relationships.
And we buy into the idea that our partner is the one person to give us everything, and whether you listen to Esther Perel or Renee Brown or any of these amazing, you know, theorists and researchers, this is just not possible. It's not possible to get everything from one person. So it's okay to say, wow, that you know, my partner doesn't quite give me everything I want in the area of emotional intimacy.
I do hope that your partner gives you some in each area, but it doesn't have to be to the fullest extent. I adore my husband. I am very lucky to be best friends with my husband because we were best friends for twenty years before we were married, so it was an easy jump. But there are times when the emotional intimacy is not as full as I want from him because he is very much driven by his rational brain, and sometimes I don't want to be.
Yeah. So that's when I call up my sister, or I call up my best friend, because they will absolutely, you know, let me do whatever I want with my emotions, and that's okay. It doesn't mean he's not the right partner for me. It doesn't mean he's cold by any means. It just means that I want something a little bit different or more, and it's great that I have other people so that it then doesn't become, oh, he can't do for me what I want, and then it spins out of control.
And I think, you know, just like being able to name that and categorize it going into things, it's so much easier than to like recognize, like, oh, right. This is that thing that's happening where this need's not being met, and instead of making the partner bad, we just realize like, oh, they're showing up for them in, like, the way they're able to, and now I recognize this, and now I can just call my sister, like you're saying. Exactly. Exactly. It gives the power back.
Mhmm. Now do you apply anything more from the sexual side of things to business at all? Or is it more just in these other types of intimacy categories? There's no area of relationship that escapes this framing. One of the biggest areas, or easiest strategies is, you know, we talk in business about annual reviews, and every year, a person gets to review with someone that is involved in their development how they're doing.
Now, I do not recommend that couples do an annual review because that's too long, too long to wait. Ideally, I suggest to couples that at the latest, they do a quarterly review, but I love monthly reviews. And it looks very much like an annual review, where there is an agenda, and there are topics to cover, not only new topics that have come up, but consistent topics. And sexual life or intimacy is one of those steady agenda items each month, or each quarter if it has to be extended out.
And it's a conversation of what is working, a little bit of a SWOT analysis, what's not working, what techniques have we tried that we wanna keep trying, what techniques really didn't work, but it gives a spot for couples to have the conversation. Because a lot of times, you know, it's you're walking past each other in the kitchen, how is your day good? How is your day good? And that's all you're getting. That's right.
And that's not gonna enhance any level of intimacy, and certainly not gonna roll over to enhancing a sexual wellness. So when you actually know that's going be on the agenda, it gives you the opportunity, because a lot of times, I don't know about you, Diane, but when people are in bed with their partners, that isn't necessarily the time they want to have these dragged out conversations.
It either detracts from what they're trying to accomplish, whatever that might be, or it becomes emotional because they're in that vulnerable space, and then it feels like criticism or disappointment, instead of, hey, we're in this, you know, we're sitting in our home office, or we're sitting at the dining room table, the kids are out of your shot, and I can just say, you know what, remember that two weeks ago?
That didn't really feel very good, and I'd like to process how we can work around that. Again, couples sometimes pull back because they think it sounds way too sterile, but then again, if you can have those kind of conversations about really important emotional topics and lead to a solution, that's what makes it better. Yeah. It's amazing. And I've seen that too in my work that the bed is not oftentimes the place to have these kind of conversations.
Like, it's like we have memories, and if it doesn't go, if it feels like stagnant or if it doesn't go or as well as you want or there's a moment of intensity, the next time you do wanna go and just be sexy and intimate and have your moments, then sometimes those memories come flooding back. Exactly. It's like that's a very real, like, it can create a very real, like, PTSD, almost trauma type of response in certain situations. Right.
It is amazing when you, you know, you you see how the connections are. You know, you have these objective conversations, these rational, data based, you know, fact based conversations. It enhances intimacy at sometimes multiple levels, which then can enhance your your sex life. And to me, I, you know, I can't speak for everyone. That's the ideal.
Like, I can I can get all of it by just using all the pieces instead of, we're just gonna use one piece and hope it ripples out, because that that isn't typically how things are done in personal life, and definitely not in business? No. Not in business and not in medicine either. Like, are looking for, like, one root cause. I'm like, well, maybe a strep throat, but there's you know, you look at, like, low libido, for example, and it's, like, yeah.
It could be testosterone, but it's usually testosterone and circulation and neurological and emotional and on and on and on and on and on. It's, like, this there's not one cause here. And you're going use all the tools, you're going to go see a physician, you're also maybe going to go see a therapist or a counselor or a coach, and then maybe you're also going to take medications, you're going to use all the tools available.
So when I work with couples, you know, I say, you don't rule out anything. Why wouldn't you wanna use everything at your disposal to get what you really want, or at least really close to it? Yeah. I love it. So we talked about SWOT analysis. We talked about our monthly reviews.
Mhmm. What other business, and I, you know, we're gonna encourage people obviously to go get your book, which will have way more in it than we can get to today, but but can you give us another example of a, like, business type of framework that you've seen really apply to intimacy and sex? Really, really simple one.
I ask all my couples from the very first session, tell me what you understand and what a mission statement is, and they can rattle off all their companies and their small businesses have mission statements, and they're all full of themselves because they know what the benefits are, and I said, okay, cool. So what's your relationship mission statement? And then I get deer in the headlights or just crickets in the background, and they're like, oh, well, no. That's not the same. I'm like, it is.
All benefits you talked about, you know, keeping everybody unified under one goal and having a direction for the company and shared values, and articulation of that are all what a business can do, but why wouldn't you want the same things in your relationship? So couples will work on developing a mission statement, and then sometimes, as we progress, I will actually have them create a second mission statement, which is just about their sex life.
So they create a sexual mission statement that is specific to that area of their life because sometimes that needs a more developed nuance than just their overall relationship mission statement, and it becomes a tool. I tell them, this is not something that you do once and you never think about again. Again, as your monthly review, you review your mission statement. What are some ways we supported our mission statement this month? What are some ways we were totally off track?
And the same with the sexual mission statement. How did we support it, and how did we miss the mark, and how can we change that? It becomes an evaluation tool for all the important areas, the big umbrella of the relationship and that really specific important part for a lot of people around intimacy and sex. I love it, and I was about to even comment before you said it, the monthly review, because my partner and I actually did this. We created a couple mission statements. Oh, I love this.
But here's the thing, as you were saying this, I immediately was like, but can I actually tell her what it is? Because we've not been doing the review. And I know that. Like, and like, I do that for my business. I do monthly reviews, and quarterly reviews, and yearly reviews, and all the things. But but so I was like, this is a perfect example of like, we created it, and now I need to talk to him tonight and be like, do you remember what that was?
And we probably need to update it because it's been some years. Right. Exactly. But that's a really White weird shoe. Mean, it's Right. It's this dynamic, ever evolving. It isn't just you slap it on paper, and then it's good forever. That's crazy. Your relationship, I would hope, isn't like that. It's gonna continue to evolve and change as each of you do, so Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's so exciting. I a lot too about putting people in couples, putting each other on the same team again, right?
Yeah, is. And I think so many times, it's like we get in these little things, right, these little spats, or these little moments that drift us apart, and it's so easy to forget that, hey, this is like you know, this is like teammate. This is like being on the same team. And I think that mission statement, like, in is a good way. It's one of, you know, many tools that really can help to, like, put people, like, back on, oh, this is why we're together. This is what we're doing.
We're on the same team. This is what our team is about. This is what we stand for. When you think about it, you know, and again, we're talking in more of a traditional sense of a two partner relationship, and I know there's lots of different ways a relationship can look. But if we're going from that framework, you know, those two people are the founders of the relationship, just like co founders of a business would be working together.
So if you're the founders of your relationship, how are you gonna make sure that it sustains all the ups and downs that are going to come, just like market values of a business, and you get to decide how to do that with all the tools possible? So good. So good. And I do like the sexual mission statement too. You know, I'm also thinking, yeah. We've, like, kinda defined, like, what our, like, sex goals are, meaning, like, frequency and things we wanna try and those kind of things.
But we haven't, like, defined it from, like, a mission statement standpoint. So I I love you're giving me some fun ideas for our conversation after we celebrate with the celebrate life with kids later. I love to get it. So good. Okay. So, wrapping up part one here, and then we'll let everybody know that, hey. You can get part two by going to mylibidoclub.com. And in part two, we're gonna talk about CBT framework, cognitive behavioral therapy, and, like, some of the framework with that.
Like, my understanding of CBT has always been, like, part of the the process with that is to get trauma and things that are more intense or maybe more activating to the nervous system more into the prefrontal cortex where we can process them and actually have conversations. Is that is that really what we're doing here with that? Yeah. It's actually applying deliberate strategies so that your brain becomes your ally in the relationship rather than your adversary.
And that is as simple as I can make it. And so we're going to talk about that in part two, I think that's so important because a lot of times it's like the crazy thought that like gets into the brain, and we believe that thought, and the thought then creates all these feelings and it takes over. Yes. And all of a sudden, we're making these decisions about our life and our relationship just because we had a thought go by our brain and we didn't even have to believe it. Right? Exactly.
Okay. So part two coming up. But before that, before that, like, let's tell everybody about your book that's coming out, how to access that, how to access, you know, just all your goodies. Right. So by the summer of twenty twenty five, my book, it's entitled, Marriage Incorporated, Building a Relationship with a Business Framework, is going to be out, and it talks about some of the strategies that we've talked about today, Diane, as well as a whole host of others.
So it's based on over fifteen years of using this framework and really seeing it work in a way that, for some couples who have tried even traditional therapy, just didn't have the success. So that's going to be out, and if you have any questions about it, you can find me on Instagram, LinkedIn, or at my website, drrobynbuckley.com. And we'll have all of those links in the show notes. And then you had some other giveaway too, is that right? Yeah, absolutely.
So when people reach out, we can absolutely schedule a complimentary fifteen minute coaching session. It's usually just something where I can really help very quickly identify some key goals that people want to accomplish, and give them a couple quick strategies. So it's just a way to really jump start your relationship. Perfect. Great gifts, and we'll find all that in the show notes.
And before we wrap up today, is there any, like, final final thing you wanna say to everybody before we call it a wrap? Yeah. I I would say that when people talk about marriage relationship being hard work, that is BS. It is not hard work. It is diligence, nurturing, and dedication to the relationship every single day. But if you tell your brain it's hard work, and we'll be talking about this next, it will be.
So stop telling yourself that and just apply the tools that will get you the relationship you want. I love that so much. I get very frustrated when people say the same thing, so we're totally in alignment there. So everybody, I hope you will go check out this book. This will be out basically any day now. And please go check out more of Robin's work and find me at mylibidoclub.com for part two. Thank you so much, Robin, for being here today. Thank you, Diane. This was awesome. Alright, everybody.
This is another episode of The Lounge. Can't wait to see you again. Thank you for listening to the Libido Lounge. Please don't keep me a secret. Please share this with your friends. You can find me on YouTube, on Instagram, as well as how to work with me at mylibidodoc.com.