Welcome to the libido lounge, where we focus on all things love, lust, and libido. We believe that fabulous sex is important to health as exercise and good food. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode on the lounge. I'm your host, doctor Diane, and I'm super excited about this whole summer. So remember, you guys, we are in sexy season this summer. So just keep looking out for all the fun bonuses we have for you guys.
Make sure you go take our libido quiz and make sure when you're done with this amazing episode that I'm so excited about, I'm going to introduce you to sex therapist Heather Shannon. And I am so excited about this this conversation, you guys. I met Heather on a intimacy summit. We co we were co speakers on that summit.
And I was very, very impressed with Heather's background around the the emotional component around sexuality, how we compartmentalize emotions, how this is related to libido, and so much more. So we're gonna talk about some really cool topics.
And remember to download this, to share this, to make sure you spread the word about this episode because the episode that has the most downloads and shares and likes and all those great things, we're going to invite that person back for a deep dive at the end of the year so we can go much deeper into your favorite topics. So make sure you Woo hoo. That you share all those things. And welcome. I'm so happy about our conversation. Thanks for being here, Heather. Thank you, Diane. I'm excited too.
I mean, it's just, it's cool that we do a lot of similar work but come at it from different angles and different training backgrounds. Yeah. It's always the best. Right? It's always the best to have different spokes that lead to the same wheel and our wheel being healthy, happy libido and relationships and all those things. And the emotional just like, let's dive right in. The emotional component I feel like is really hard so so many times.
And and it's really hard because I think so many times we're not thinking about small little ways that safety or that little thing that our partner said to us in the morning that we just brushed off or we snap back as a verb, stress. Like, we're not always thinking about the impact of that on sexuality and our sex life. So can you just kinda open with that topic and just kinda just generally set the frame for us around that importance with libido and and these sorts of topics. Yeah. For sure.
So I think that, you know, sexual energy is life force energy. And, you know, it's not an accident. Then when we're kind of like dimming our emotions, such as in depression, one of the symptoms is low libido. And so when we try to compartmentalize or kind of downplay a certain emotion or just exile it, I do internal family systems therapy. So we talk about exiled parts where it's like this part, this emotion is not okay, and let's just banish this one.
It, it creates like a dimming of, of our life force energy because our emotions are such a huge part of that. And that's not usually the intention, but it's like when we kinda shut down enough, it's gonna affect our sex life. And then we're like, what happened? I mean, people are often confused and we don't put it together. And it wasn't part of my sex therapy training, you know, it was more something like through working with people, I was like, oh gosh, this is a pattern.
Like lots of people are doing this sort of avoiding of emotions and holding it in and not communicating it and it's killing their sex life. Yeah. And it's a you know, I think about that and I think like both things that happen from truly, like, a sex standpoint, meaning, like, oh, maybe a partner sends us a flirtatious tax and anything back. Right. So there's, like, that thing around, like, coming on to me, and all of a sudden, I don't reciprocate, and then that other person feels hurt.
So I think there's that aspect, and then there's, like, all the non sex related aspects. Right? So it's like, oh, wow. You snapped at me and, like, I'm gonna just pretend like it's not a big deal and I'm gonna it's not, you know, those kind of things. So do you find then in this conversation, like, what are where do we start? How do we start identifying, like, when we're dimming the emotions? Where where is that Yeah. Reporting point? It probably could be anywhere.
Yeah. Just to give you a really clear answer. You know, but I think what I see is, like, couples will come to me, and it's like there's just been a pattern, I would say, of the emotional intimacy shutting down and just living kinda separate lives under the same roof. And so that can start really small, kind of like you said, your partner makes, what the Gottman Relationship Institute would call a bid for attention, you know.
And there's a lot of research on this, like, bid for attention thing, and it could be tiny. It could be like, oh my god. Look at the bird out the window. You know. It could be, and your partner either ignores you, like the example you gave. It's like someone's trying to flirt and someone's just like, I am uncomfortable or I'm at work or you're always after me in this way and I don't you know? Whatever it is.
And when you're not connecting in those small ways, that starts to erode the relationship as a whole. So it can start very small. And I think also when when our partner doesn't respond, we might not feel as safe opening up. Or if our partner was judgmental once in a way that really hurt us and we never addressed it and resolved it and they don't get it, then we just shut it down. Then it's like, well, okay.
I'm just not gonna talk to you about this because you're always judging me as a parent or you're always judging me for, you know, not speaking up at work or whatever. And so then it's like, okay. We're just starting to eliminate topic after topic, and now we're just, like, functioning. Yeah. Now we're talking about how is the weather. Right? So now we're having a super superficial conversation.
And then also so when we're talking about this dimming concept, so I want to go a little bit further because I think this is super important. Are we also talking about almost dimming it in ourselves? Meaning sample. Okay. So Yeah. I wanna say what I mean just so I make sure the audience is tracking our thoughts here. Tell me if this is what you're talking about too.
Mhmm. So, like, for example, like, oh, I my talking about work and and my partner is not there for me and they're telling me I'm not handling it correct and they're almost like gaslighting my experience. And then in this example, okay, I'm not going to talk about work. I withdraw withdraw withdraw that can affect my libido. But is there also that point where we begin is, like, some of the dimming, almost like that self shaming around Yeah. Oh, I should never talk about this again. Right?
So is there a secondary layer of emotion there? Yeah. It works it works both ways. It's kind of your own internal experience of your emotions, and it's also your partners. And it's kind of the same dynamic, just like one is internal and one is external. So it could be your partner kind of shaming you or judging you or gaslighting you. And it could be a part of yourself. Yes. We masculine ourselves.
Absolutely. Where it's like, oh, I shouldn't feel this way or I shouldn't be so needy or I shouldn't, you know, I maybe it's like I'm too old to be sexual or I'm past childbearing years or, you know, I had a hysterectomy and I feel like less of a woman now or, whatever the messaging is. And sometimes we don't even know, like, it's I'm pretty unconscious until we, like, go in there and start poking around a little bit. Yeah. I think that's really that that knowing.
And that's it's such a huge thing. I think that's why it's important we have these conversations because I imagine there's a lot of moments happening for people because it is so these things, I think they start so small and they can eat away and it's like, well, it's not that big. You know, we gaslight ourselves being like, alright, it's not that big of a deal that we're not on the same page with this.
I'm just not going to pick this up, which if that was in isolation and it was the one and only thing, then probably not a huge deal. Right? That just leads to that compounding of so many things and it just be almost starts becoming this new habit. Right. So what I hear and what you're saying is like, okay, the first step then is becoming aware of the internal dialogue and the inter relational dialogue, correct? Yes. Absolutely. Okay. And so from there, like where do people even go from there?
Like how do we begin to say, okay, we're gonna break this habit and get back our connection, get back our libido, get back our confidence, all of those things. Where do we go from there? I think usually starting with yourself is the right place to start. Yeah. But I mean, that also can happen if you have a partner who's like, hey, I wanna address this dynamic too. I'm willing to kinda look within myself also and see how I'm contributing to this. Awesome.
You know, those can be things that are happening at the same time. But if you have a partner that's just, you know, hey. This is a you issue or, you know, I don't feel like I'm doing anything wrong. You can still look at this on your end. And so part of it, I'll explain internal family systems a little bit because, that is a big piece of it. So we have our self energy, which is the essence of who we are, and it's unaffected by trauma.
And it's like this infinite spacious energy, and it's amazing, and it feels great. And and then we have our parts, and our parts are, like, our defense mechanisms or our protective mechanisms. And so they mean well. They're only trying to, like, look out for our best interest, but it could be kinda wreaking havoc. So we have some proactive ones that might be like, I'm gonna make a therapy appointment. Right?
Or I'm gonna go see doctor Diane or, you know, that are like, let's do proactive healthy things. And then we also have firefighter parts that are more reactive, and they're like, I need another glass of wine, you know, or like, I'm gonna avoid compartmentalize or I'm gonna bury my head in the sand on this one. And both the manager parts that are proactive and the firefighter parts that are reactive are trying to protect the axiled parts.
And the axiled parts are the same for all humans, which is really fascinating. So they are parts that feel like a failure, that feel not good enough, that feel shame, that feel unlovable, that feel, like, vulnerable to the point of feeling unsafe. And so there's really only, like, a handful of them.
And so even though they're exiled, it's almost like they're invert like, indirectly controlling everything because all the protector parts are kind of directing their energy towards, like, keeping these intolerable feelings at bay. Right? But it's like the more we exile these parts, the more we're kinda dimming our life force energy and not accepting all the parts of us. Right? Yeah. So through bringing in the self energy, which I think of is almost like the sun.
So if you're new to this, you can just think of it as, like, this is like the rays of the sun, and it's, like, radiating out, good healing energy. And so when the parts can feel that, when they can kinda, like, bask in the rays of the of the self energy, then they can start healing, and then they might trust the self energy enough to be like, okay. Self energy, you can talk to an exile now. I will allow it.
And then then we are able to start uncompartmentalizing and, like, creating safety within your own system and, like, letting your whole life force energy, like, be present and shine. So that's that's kind of the goal. Yeah. I love it. And and when I you're talking, it reminds me of the some of the things I talk to people about, which is, like, a both and approach versus a or. Right? Because I think sometimes we think like, okay. Well, I either have to live in the fact that I feel like a failure.
I feel like I'm not good enough. I feel like an imposter, or I live in, like, more like the fun energy of, like, oh, I'm successful. I have a great, you know, great relationship. Everything is and what I hear in that one of you're talking about almost, like, bringing them all together. It's like it's Yeah. All of that both and, right, where we can go into those exile parts and be like, I could feel this, and I can actually feel something that's completely a little bit opposite at the same time.
Right? Yes. That's absolutely it. And we also have a term for that in IFS called polarized parts. So if you have two parts that are trying to help in totally different ways Yes. We can even feel both of those and we can support both of those. Yes. Exactly. Exactly.
I think, you know, that's I I sometimes joke around and I don't know if the joke's the right word, but I sometimes use say, like, you know, there's parts of us that maybe we're all a little schizophrenic on some way because we have these different voices and these voices sometimes have, like, one part might feel sad about something and happy about something else at the same time.
And and Yeah. You know, it's there's an element of that where I think there is just this human conditioning of it's so easy to think that we're the only ones feeling this. And it's like, well, like you said, the exile parts and it has the exile parts. So Right? I love that. I love that.
And then, also, so in context then of our our topic here of libido and of sexuality, another thing that I'm curious about because, like, in I I know you you said something so perfect at the beginning of this, which is, like, we have different angles of the same ways of or approaching, approaching the same things. Right?
So one of the things I talk to people about when they were gonna tell their partner or have a conversation with their partner about how hard things, I talk about, like, the how, the when, the where things being, like, kind of the fundamental components of how we approach that partner. Right? Right. Right. So how would you say are there is there like a system? I know obviously people can come and learn from, you know, from you and that's kind of your work as a sex therapist.
But is there, like, a generalized system where I'm like, okay. Like, I need to tell my partner that we have to have this conversation. I have to be able to hear about my day without triggering them. Yada yada. How do I have this conversation? What's what's the framework? Yeah. I do have several suggestions. The first one is internal.
So, what I find so interesting is, like, the buildup in our head is probably, like, our worst enemy with having these conversations because my clients will be like, well, I just, you know, I wish I could tell him that, you know, my needs aren't being met or just the way he initiates. If you could just do this or that, but, like, I don't know how to say it. I'm like, you just but, like, the way you just said it to me was perfect. So I think that there's a different framework.
It's like they feel safe saying it to me. They feel relaxed saying it to me. There's not sort of so much at stake. And so I think when they're able to kind of, like, lower the stakes mentally and kind of be like, this could this could be a short conversation. This doesn't have to be like a whole big thing. Because when you bring the energy of like, oh, I have to talk to you about something, but, like, I don't know. You might get mad at me. You know?
It's like, that's not that's not really how we wanna start. So, yes, find a good time, you know? Like, don't do it when your partner's, like, in the middle of another task or just had, like, the worst day of their life. But also, I see there being more of an issue when people are, like, waiting for the perfect time. So I would kind of just be like, make sure it's not a terrible time, but otherwise, just go for it. You know? Yeah. And then I also encourage people to do a couple of things.
So, create, like, a safe container. So if this is a new type of conversation, just to kind of be like, you know, hey. I'm gonna share a sexual fantasy with you, or, I wanna talk about, like, how can we initiate in a way that's, like, super sexy. So you can say, can we create a judgment free zone? Or, like, even if you're not into something I say, can you just agree not to, like, tell me I'm a weirdo or something?
So say what you need, like, create the safe container with each other, like, get on the same page and agree to that, and then I think starting by saying your positive intention. So this is something that the Gottman Institute calls the softened startup, and the research says that it eliminates 90% of escalating fights. Like, if you learn one thing, learn the one that's gonna eliminate 90% of fights, you know? And so so this is what I emphasize a lot with my clients, and it's it's real basic.
It's like, don't come in hot. Right? Like, don't come in being like, you know, you never touched me the way I want you to, and, you know, I just wish that you would, like, listen once in a while. You know, no. That's not how we're starting. But if it's like, yeah. I want us to feel like we can talk openly about things because I think that's gonna help create some intimacy, You know? Or I love that you are such a great listener, or, once we're into sex, I feel so great and have such a great time.
And I would like to be able to, like, get in the mood more and talk about, like, how do we do, like, mental foreplay. So it's it's kind of like bringing in a compliment, stating a positive intention, you know, letting the person know, like, hey. This is coming from a positive place, but and it is. Right? So even though there might be an angry protector part or there might be a, scared protector part, You know? That's where kinda doing some of that self work first helps.
So it's like, let's manage our own emotions first and then be able to come in with more of our self energy, more of that confidence and, connectedness. Yeah. The manager self energy, I hear so much because I think that's such a big thing. Right? It's like if we're coming in hot and, like, we might feel hot. So, basically, it's what I hear in that advice is, like, take care of yourself first.
If you're feeling, like, so emotionally charged, see what you can do to burn through that emotion to keep Yeah. Exactly. So you can come in, you know, with still the same intention, but actually have it well received. Yeah. Exactly. Because I mean, the energy I'm big on and I'm guessing you probably are too. Yeah. You know, it's like the energy can be felt even if you're kinda, like, saying the right words, quote, unquote. It's like if you're feeling uncomfortable, that is gonna come through.
And I would also say, like, remember this person really likes you. So, like, you were the person they picked to, you know, be with. So Yeah. I think that's a really important reminder. What other things as far as any other, say, patterns, like are there other patterns that you see show up a lot from an emotional standpoint when people are experiencing any sort of low libido or other sexual dysfunction?
Yeah, so some of this is what I talk about in my intimacy audit, which I will share with your audience, is what are some of the common patterns. A lot of times people come to me and they think it's just like, Oh, look, libido, libido, libido. And yes, sometimes it is libido. Yes. A lot of times, which is it also it's own complex thing. And sometimes it's self censorship, you know? Sometimes it's like the sexual thoughts are there, but they're just, like, not exiting your mouth.
They're not they're not coming out. They're staying in there. And then sometimes it's like, okay, the sexual thoughts are there, and maybe they're even coming out, but you're just kinda getting your wires crossed, you know? Like like, I've had clients that kinda come in and they say, well, I'm attracted to my spouse, and they say they're attracted to me. We're, like, not really having sex. I was like, oh, that's so interesting. People are just so fascinated. Yeah. I really love humans.
And so I was like, okay. What is the disconnect? You know? And and it could be anything from, you know, religious upbringing or conservative upbringing, where it's like, oh, I'm not supposed to do that, to, you know, the patriarchy and gender conditioning where it's like, I'm the woman. You know? A guy is supposed to come to me.
Or it could be like, maybe you're into other women and you're like, I don't know how to approach because I've been conditioned that a guy is supposed to come to me and there's no guy here, and I don't have to overcome that guy. So, you know, there's I think all of us have some things that we probably need to, like, overcome, when it comes to creating the sex life that we really want, but it's doable, you know?
And that's that's where having a coach, having a therapist, having a good friend you could talk to, having a support group, you know? It's like find somewhere where you can get rid of any kind of shame or stigma or beliefs that are no longer serving you because those things do tend to exist in the shadows. Right?
And when we shine some light on it and we realize we can be accepted just as we are, and when we can do some of that internal family systems, you know, shadow work and unexiling the exiles, like, that's how we get to a place of feeling really confident and whole in our sex lives. I'm gonna take us a different direction because you're making me think of something that came up in a conversation with a friend recently, which is Mhmm.
It comes up here and there around, like, just, like, sex education because I feel like when you're talking about shadow. Right? It's like, to me, it's like so much of shadow. First, we get an adult, but so much of that comes in childhood. And it's like the things that are said to us and the way certain things are defined. And in childhood, like, sex education was basically purely about procreation. And that was all that was really taught.
And there's so much stigma and there is still so much stigma too. I think still these days, I think a little bit more historically, but still these days around a woman being promiscuous has a different sort of social connotation than men being promiscuous. And it's like, we are not supposed to explore in the same way. So there's all these ways that we are just taught that are encoded into us as that shadow. So what do you think the solution is? Like, what do you think?
Like, do you think we should be talking more in, like, you know, grade school, high school, like around? Hey, please. Right. Do I think that's gonna happen anytime soon? So I hope eventually we will get there. I mean, I partially think it's people like you and me doing it more, like, privately in our own businesses and, like, putting content out there on Instagram and YouTube. And, you know, it's better than, people just, like, trying to learn from porn or their friends, you know? Right.
But but it is. It's it's a tough political landscape. And, you know, when I'm talking about these shadow parts, like, a lot a lot of this does come from the culture. So it's like a cultural exile. So it's like we have our own internal system, but there's also parts of the culture and exiled aspects culturally. So I think that's important to realize too. It's like, if you're dealing with some of this, you didn't go create this in a vacuum. Like, it's not like, oh, you're only to blame.
It's like you grew up in a context where my sex education was like, be afraid. Be very afraid. You will get pregnant, and you will ruin your life, and you'll be slut shamed, and, you know, you're gonna get diseases, and you're gonna get HIV, and you're gonna die. And then it's just like, there was no, like, oh, here's all the health benefits of sex, or here's all the health benefits of orgasm. Here's even what an orgasm is. Here's what a clitoris is. This is part of your body.
You should probably know about it. Yes. None of that. Right? Yes. And so it's like that's the stuff where, like, people need to podcast honestly are the best place to be because it's the only place we're not censored. So people like you and me can share on our podcast about, like, actually what is helpful to talk about. Yeah. Whereas, like, I can't say this stuff on Instagram. You know?
So I I think podcasts are the place to be in books, and get on people's email list, you know, because they can't really say what they wanna say in social media. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that's a perfect wrap up and lead it. And I know you and I could talk all day. So, so everybody make sure to, you know, to download and support Heather's podcast so we can have her be the winner and have her back. I wanna make sure that we have a moment to tell people how to get a hold of you and Yeah.
About your intimacy audits and Yeah. You just tell us about all those things? Yeah. Absolutely. So, you can check out my intimacy audit. It is all about helping you figure out what patterns apply to you. So when it comes to your sex life, if you're like, hey. We're not having sex. I don't know what's going on. I don't know how to fix it, which, by the way, I've been there before I was a sex therapist, and I wish I knew what I know now. You know, it's gonna help you figure that out.
So we have a checklist that will kinda help you pinpoint. Is it libido? Is it problems initiating and cross wires? Is it self censorship? And there's some emails that'll walk you through it so that, you know, you'll know what's going on, and then we'll start offering some solutions in the emails as well. So we're not just gonna help you identify only the problem. So that's a great place to start. If you go to my website, you can grab that.
It's heathershannon.co, heathershannon.co, and there's a pop up on the home page. So it'll just pop up after a few seconds, sign up, and it'll get into your email inbox. So yeah. Amazing. Enjoy it. Everything you guys in those show notes are on this podcast page. We'll have everything there as far as links of how to get a hold of Heather, about how to join the intimacy audit program, get the checklist, all these amazing things. Yeah. So thank you. Thank you.
Thank you so much for being with me today. I really appreciate you. Thank you, Diana. I appreciate you too. This was fun. And, everybody, we're signing off here. Another episode of the lounge. It's been so great to spend time with you all as always, and this is just your friendly reminder to always stay classy, always stay sexy, and always be a little badassy. See you next time. Thank you for listening to the Libido Lounge. Please don't keep me a secret. Please share this with your friends.
You can find me on YouTube, on Instagram, as well as how to work with me at mylibidodoc.com.