And one of my challenges was I wouldn't last very long, in sex. I would last five minutes, maybe ten minutes. When I was growing up, I was watching porn, and I was kind of like quiet and I didn't wanna get caught and so I would masturbate as quickly as possible. And I was training my body, my arousal system, my nervous system to get erect and then come quickly and then be done. Right? Yeah. We wanna retrain that pattern.
Not everybody has that, but we wanna retrain it so we can hang out aroused for as long as we want. I can have this energetic peak of pleasure that does not have to have anything to do with my cock rhythmically pumping and ejecting fluid. Once I get the energetic peak, I can have those again and again and again, the same way similar to how women's arousal can work, where women can have orgasm after orgasm. Men, we can learn this too. So that's pretty cool. A scale from zero to 10.
Where zero is no arousal and 10 is peak orgasm. We wanna find five to seven on the arousal range. So five is high enough that you're not going to slip into not being aroused anymore. Seven is far enough below the top that there's a safe buffer in case there's a wave and you don't spill over. Slowly, slowly, I started to feel energy in my body and it was like, woah, this is a real thing.
In my book, I lay out five steps to orgasmic mastery and the first step is one of the benefits for men when you get this is you have more focus and energy. But also the sex levels up in ways that I could not have comprehended. Hey, Matt. Welcome to the Livedo Lounge. I'm so excited you are here. Tell us a little bit about yourself and about how you got into the world of supporting the masculine and helping men with non ejaculatory orgasms. Awesome, Diane. Thanks so much for having me.
I'm stoked to be here. I coach men around sexuality, and I do a lot of work around masculinity. It's one of the big passions in my life. I'm also trained as a somatic therapist, so I bring, like, more of a trauma informed and attachment informed approach to this method. For me personally, learning non ejaculatory orgasms was, a, one of the most challenging things I've ever done, and, b, one of the most rewarding things.
It completely changed my life, not just in terms of having better sex, but how I showed up as a man. And so I'm super passionate about sharing these practices and helping other men, supporting other men to make the same journey because it's a big one. This is huge. This is so huge, everybody. We are gonna have, I think, the most one of the most deep discussions on this show around men that we have had to date because, you know, it's a common thing. Right?
When, like, I think when I have mentioned this to men, this conversation around non ejaculatory orgasms, I think a lot of men, for one, are are like, I can even do that? Like, that's even possible? Right? Mhmm. So we're gonna talk about a lot of things today. We're gonna talk about techniques. We're gonna talk about your story. We're gonna talk about what even is a non ejaculatory orgasm. Like, how does that even feel?
Is it same feeling as a good orgasm as a regular orgasm, or is it a I should say regular. Is it an ejaculatory orgasm? So I know you said that, like, it's really one of things you had said is it really helped you show up differently as a man. So tell tell us a little bit about your journey.
Like, prior to even learning what you're gonna teach and talk about today, prior to even you know, writing this great book that we're gonna talk about today that you just published and released prior to any of this, how did you even begin to even learn about this concept, and what was your process to say, yes, this is important to me. I've got to learn how to do this. Yeah. Great. So my path is I was a pretty average guy. I had a corporate job.
Sex was something that I cared about but wasn't particularly good at. I didn't really have a bunch of tools or support, kind of average. You know? I struggled with a lot of shame from my Catholic upbringing. I had a little bit of sexual trauma in my past. So, anyway, I took a gap year off from my job, and I went traveling and volunteering around Asia. And, randomly, my partner and I ended up at a tantra retreat in Thailand. We didn't know anything about it.
We just showed up, and we were really struggling with our sex life. We were not meeting each other. We were trying. It was like butting heads in crisis mode, to the point where we thought we were gonna break up. And then we roll into this retreat, and here are all these humans who are investing in their sexuality.
There's all these tools and practices, and there's a whole different framework than what I grew up with, the idea that our sexuality is sacred and that these bodies are holy and that we wanna welcome our desires as part of our life force energy that flows through us. And all of this for me, like, decade ago was just like click, click, click. Wow. Wow. And most importantly, it was like, okay. I'm gonna take these practices, and I'm gonna start using them.
And one of my challenges was I wouldn't last very long, in sex. I would last five minutes, maybe ten minutes. And so they were like, well, slow down, breathe, feel your body. And the first time we like, very simple. And the first time we tried this, I had sex with my partner for forty five minutes, and and both of us were crying at the end. We're like, oh my god. I can't believe this is happening.
And for me, it was a reorientation around sex just being what my body did to starting to have some sovereign choice around how I show up sexually. So that's where I got my start. And then I was in. I was enrolled, and I was like, they were teaching yoga. Oh, yoga is not just a stretching fad. It's actually, like, a practice that will support me to have better sex. Sweet. I'm in. That's awesome. And then my partner and I started having a daily sexual practice where we really focused.
We had the time and space in our lives to go deep with each other. And in making it a practice, I was able to retrain my arousal response, my nervous system, and my whole body. And we talk about orgasm being energy. At the beginning, I was like, I don't get energy. I'm a I'm a mathematician. That was what my college degree was. I don't understand energy because you can't measure it. Slowly, slowly, I started to feel energy in my body, and it was like, woah. This is a real thing.
And I can start to work with it. And, wow, some really awesome results happen, not only for my partner, she was, like, stoked, but also for me, so much started to unlock in my body. So that's what got me on the path, And then that passion has just carried forward. Once I learned it, I was like, okay, people need to know about this. I love it. And I love the the experience of you know, just like the experiencing energy for the first time.
One of my Mhmm. Doctorates is in acupuncture and oriental medicine. So while I have studied a little tantra, not a lot, I'm definitely not a deep tantra person, I've studied qigong for a couple decades, which is a different version of movement of energy. And that first time, I remember feeling, like, truly how we'd how how I would define it at least after all these years of study. And, like like, realize it's real. Right?
Realize this thing that we can't actually see, right, is actually very real and that we can utilize this to help ourselves feel better, to feel more relaxed, or to feel more energized, and then to tie that into sex. I just I think it these types of processes really show us the innate capacity of the human body to not only heal, but to, like, show up present, fully, fully, fully present.
I think we go through, like, some of your when I'm listening to your story, it's made me think that, like, the way we go through sex, right, as humans so many times is just this almost, like, unilateral. I'm in this one zone. This is my zone, and I stay in my zone, and that's what I do.
And your, you know, your story is like opening up so much around, like, the capacity of the of the human to experience so many more sensations and so many more so much more pleasure if we start opening up, like, our our zone or approach beyond this, like, very linear direction. Absolutely. Yeah. So one of the places where I love to start this conversation is around orgasm versus ejaculation. Like, Sure. Let's do it.
From the very beginning is orgasm for me is the pleasurable pleasurable sensations that I'm having in my body, and I would say it's a subtle energy sensation. And then ejaculation is the biological process, the physiological process of pumping sperm out of the penis. And in all of the porn that I ever watched growing up, in all of the pop culture, in every conversation I ever had, it was just assumed that they went together. That was one phenomenon. Right.
And so the first step is just to, like, conceptually be like, okay. I can have this energetic peak of pleasure that does not have to have anything to do with my cock rhythmically pumping and ejecting, fluid. That we wanna learn how to split those. And then once I get the energetic peak, I can have those again and again and again, the same way similar to how women's arousal can work, where women can have orgasm after orgasm. Men, we can learn this too. So that's pretty cool.
Yeah. The multi orgasmic man. Mhmm. Right. Okay. Beautiful. So then from that standpoint so now we've, like, helped people understand this. Right? Now we've helped people understand that this is not necessarily one and the same, that are these two separate processes. I think probably one of the things that comes up probably commonly for men, right, is, well, how do I control that? Right? How do I begin, like you know, once I, like, start feeling pleasure, how do I begin to control this?
And I know you and I talked offline about the concept of edging, right, and that being one of the ways potentially to control this, to say, hey, I'm gonna feel pleasure, but not actually take it all the way to, like, ejaculation. But that still doesn't, you know, tell me, like like, where, from a standpoint of control, how do I prevent or how does a man prevent Mhmm. Actually going all the way to ejaculation and just experiencing the pleasure and the the subtle sensations that orgasm allows?
That's such a great question. And in my book, I lay out five steps to, orgasmic mastery, and the first step is arousal control. I don't know if you know that, but control is, like, where we begin. So I start everybody who I work with. And for me personally, the last decade I've been doing this, I have a daily self pleasure practice.
Mhmm. And that self pleasure practice is my opportunity to feel pleasure in my body, to give the opportunity for arousal to be here and orgasm to be here, but it's not a goal oriented practice. It's just I'm breathing deeply, connecting with my body every day. And this is a solo practice. Correct? Solo practice, for me to be with me. And then whatever yummy goodness you know, if I have a partner right now, I have a partner. I get to bring that to her.
But it's it's really about cultivating it in myself. So the first step, arousal control for my process, if you could imagine that a scale from zero to 10, where zero is no arousal and 10 is peak orgasm Yeah. We wanna find five to seven on the arousal range. So five is high enough that you're not going to slip into not being aroused anymore. Seven is far enough below the top that there's a safe buffer in case there's a wave and you don't spill over.
Mhmm. So for most of us, like, the five to seven range, we call it kinda call it flyover territory. We just wanna cruise right past that to get to the yummier stuff. Feeling yummy. We want it to feel yummier. Right? But, actually, there's a really rich playground in the five to seven range. And then learning how to hang out there And if you can hang out there you know, I've tested this. You can go hours being aroused and just be in that zone. Right?
So when I was growing up, I was watching porn, and I was kind of, like, quiet. I didn't wanna get caught, and so I would masturbate as quickly as possible. And I was training my body, my arousal system, my nervous system to get erect and then come quickly and then be done. Right? Yeah. We wanna retrain that pattern. Not everybody has that, but we wanna retrain it so we can hang out aroused for as long as we want.
So that's, like, the first practice is just touch your body, breathe deeply, feel pleasure, hang out in that five to seven band. So a couple questions from that. So one, do you feel then when we're talking about, say, this pleasure practice, right, and we're talking about masturbation, do you feel then that people and I think this is a common practice, right, where people's masturbation practice looks generally the same.
Like, you know, usually from what I've seen in studies, women tend to have their range of a few different ways they masturbate, but it's like it's like in this narrow range, and and men often too. And so and it does, you know, typically look for people with masturbation. Most commonly, it's like it's to get the orgasm job done. Right? It's like we're here. We're here for remission, and it's very, very short.
Do you feel then with what you've seen in in your research and your work that when we are masturbating in this way, are we then setting ourselves up where this arousal length, it's harder to achieve that arousal length with a partner. Completely. So if I only touch myself one specific way for my pleasure, and then if my partner doesn't touch me in that one specific way, I may not get aroused.
And I've spoken to like, I've had this experience myself personally, but I've also coached other men where they're like, I have erectile dysfunction. Well, in what cases, you know, with with your partner, but on your own, you don't. And so you're touching yourself in one way, but your partner's not doing that. There's the disconnect right there. So in your self pleasure practice, expand your range.
We are capable of so many different flavors of pleasure from the lightest little tickling teasing touch to, like, rough grabbing to scratching and pulling. Get into the full expression of what your body can do, and that's going to allow you to bring that into your lovemaking with your partner. Completely agree. Okay. So my second question so that clears that up.
Then my second question for you is when we're thinking about this scale, right, this this Mhmm. 10 scale, and we're saying five to seven is kind of this really lovely zone that gets passed over, I've seen situations where it's helpful, and I'm like, all sit almost all situations, I feel like communication is really important. But I've seen situations where couples have experimented with things such as saying, like, okay. I'm at a five. I'm at a seven.
Like, do you bring in some of the work that you do, like, with partner play, like, with this scale where a partner can be like, okay. This is where I'm at.
Here's where I'm at on the scale, and then utilize that to almost inform the partner so it becomes less of a, you know, say, unilateral process where, like, say, the man is holding his pleasure in the five to seven and more of a combined process that we get to experience together where the they're getting feedback, and maybe the woman's even changing what she's doing to help hold him in the five to seven. Is that part of it as well? Completely. I'm so happy that you're speaking to this point.
Communication. So if you decide to take this practice on, it's a big undertaking as a guy for most of us. It takes a lot of discipline, a lot of control, and a lot of practice. If you have a partner, you need to tell your partner, hey. I wanna learn this thing, and you need to enroll your partner in this process together with you. You both have to be on the same page.
And there's gonna be a a phase of, like, kind of learning how to drive a stick shift vehicle for the first time where we're rewiring everything. Like, oh, well, stop. Okay. Now go. Oh, alright. And so it can be a little bit awkward to stay in that zone. If your partner doesn't know that you're trying to do this, it can be hurtful for your like, emotionally hurtful, or your partner may not feel your full energy coming in in the same way.
And so, yeah, you it's essential in my book to have that conversation. And then if your partner is on board to be like, yeah, I wanna, like, play in this zone with you, and I wanna learn this practice with you, then great. That is actually the key to success. Okay. So this is really exciting, and I think one of the things that I can feel that people might be thinking about, right, because it's so common to hear this and be like, well, this sounds great.
This sounds like I could provide more pleasure for my partner and I could last longer, I think those are probably conclusions people are already getting up getting from our conversation. Mhmm. That being said, I know there's so many other benefits, and I find that as humans, most of the time when we know that, like, what the benefits are and what, you know, what the the purpose is and all of the purpose is, it can become a higher level of interesting to say, yeah.
This is, like you said, this is a practice. This will take time. So I think going through and understanding some more of the benefits could really help people understand, like, oh, yeah. This is actually, you know, worth it for them and for their, you know, their partner to put this energy into it because it is a process. So so tell us a little bit more about, like, since, you know, you've been doing this, since you've coached others Mhmm. In this, what are you seeing from a benefit standpoint?
Right. Okay. So first little tidbit, a very interesting data point. A few years back, I got interested in talking to women whose partners had learned this skill. And I was like, what's the best part of your man having this practice? And I was surprised, but then it made complete sense that almost unilaterally what I heard back is there's no more agenda around ejaculation during sex. There's not that pressure Nice. Have the goal. Right.
Yeah. Yeah. And I I talk about that a lot in my work too around, like, we gotta take this this goal off the table. This goalpost really brings us out of the present moment, but I hadn't thought about that in terms of this non ejaculatory orgasm, that that completely changes that whole mindset from that standpoint. Completely changes it. Right. So that's the feedback I got from partners on the other side of it.
I have talked to many, many men who have gone through this initiation, and this is true for me. The biggest thing was actually that I wasn't expelling my life force through my semen, and that gave me an incredible amount of energy and focus. It was like this fog lifted from my system, and I could see clearly. And I would wake up every morning, and I would know what to do, and I would go do it.
And when I'm ejaculating, there's amount an amount of life force energy that gets given away that then my body has to replenish. Yeah. And because I started masturbating when I was in fifth grade, you know, however 12 years old, something like that, I had no baseline. And I, you know, I would masturbate once a day for all the way through to my late twenties, so I did not know what this was costing me. And then once I stopped, it was actually like, oh, wow.
How do I even deal with all of the energy that I now have available? The vitality that's flowing through my system. And this is how we this is, like, how our bodies naturally operate when we're not expending that energy. Yeah. In in Chinese medicine, we call that jing. I I imagine you know Sure. Jing as the term. So life force. And we talk a lot about that. Right? That there's a certain, like, essence that we come into this world within.
There's almost this this this lack of ability to, say, regenerate some level of this, especially for men according to some of the theories. So my question for you is this, because another thing that I've seen in with men, and I'll bring up my partner here, is that there are certain times where it's like there can be all of this this energy and this intensity. My my partner's a really, really amazingly like, I love he's masculinely intense in, like, the best way.
And sometimes when he is, like, working really hard and pushing real hard, this intensity kind of, like, builds up, and he's really good at holding it in. And the process of ejaculation and he's very he knows how to edge, and he knows how to do all so we can have these long, like, three hour lovemaking sessions.
Mhmm. So he's gotten that down, but this process of this not this not ejaculating like, what I think about him is, like, after in these times where it's like, oh my gosh, like, just needing that release and needing to to almost, like, take, say, some of that yang energy down and to ground it, it's really healing for him, the ejaculation process. So Yeah. You know, so I wanted to bring that into this conversation around.
So so the question is then, like, when like, do you find then with these these non ejaculatory orgasms, like, they're still, like, really important health benefits to the orgasm itself? And if so, then where are you seeing, the the timing is, like or the the reasons to say, hey.
This time I'm gonna do these practices, do my arousal lengthening practice, do all these different things, the five step process of your book, to to at least get to that pleasure zone so it lasts longer, so I can have a longer lovemaking session. So where do you see it's like, okay. We have a longer lovemaking session, and, yeah, it's it's gonna be time to orgasm without ejaculating versus, hey. Now is actually a really good time to orgasm with ejaculating. You understand that question?
I completely understand the question. So the idea with these practices, the phrase I like to use is ejaculatory choice. Mhmm. So rather than the the ejaculation being the unconscious drive for me into sex and then it's kind of owning my behavior, I get to be really consciously and intentional in how I do that. As I've talked to men, I've been astounded by how different, how unique each person's sexual system is.
So I share these are the practices that work for me, and I invite men to be a scientist with their body and their system to explore. Yeah. I love that phrase. Yeah. Totally. So I have gone over a year without ejaculating. Mhmm. It and to be specific here, it's not I wasn't sexual. It was I was in my self pleasure practice, and I was connecting with other people. So I was stimulating my arousal the whole time and not ejaculating. And I went over a year. My body felt great.
You know, there's an adjustment period. I've also been in a period where once a month, when my partner was on her moon, I would share my semen, and it was a beautiful, like, deep, like, shamanic, powerful ceremony that we did. And it would cost me something. I would feel like, okay. I'm giving my life force, and I'm dedicating it into my relationship here. So there's not a right. There's not a wrong. It's feel into where this lands for you and try a bunch of different things.
There's one other piece that I want to share here, which is important for me. I have looked at the academic research around prostate health. Mhmm. And as far as I can tell, there's not a consensus around ejaculatory frequency with prostate health. Some articles say, yes. You should ejaculate more and clean out the system. Other articles say, no. It doesn't make a difference. And so I haven't been able to find any consensus on this.
And without that consensus, it's just stay with what feels right for your body. Yeah. Sadly, I think there's so many things in the sexual health world that we just don't have the number of studies we need and the clarity on these studies to really form form a consensus. And I do agree that with any of these things, it's like we have to follow our own body and our own feeling.
Mhmm. Mhmm. So it sounds like, like the for your own personal experience, when you actually, after going this period and not ejaculating and then coming back and deciding that you were going to ejaculate just in this very, very special sweet moment with your partner when she was on her moon. So in this scenario, like, does she like, I'm curious, and if it's too, like, personal for her, I wanna, you know, obviously respect her space.
I'm curious I'm curious, though, if she's shared with you, and this feels, appropriate to share when she like, if she has, like, noticed anything different from her experience saying, like, okay. This has not happened. And then this one sacred time a month that this is, you know, this is gonna be the way that you guys share this energy. Does has she noticed anything in particular there?
So this was a few years ago with a a former partner, and what I can share is that it was really powerful for both of us. Like, when we were doing it, it's vulnerable and meaningful, and and there's, like, some alchemy that happens on the the body substance level when we connect it in that way. And it for me, it took my bond deeper with her. Yeah. It was amazing. And offering you know, it's it's not just offering my seed.
I'm offering my life force, and I'm dedicating it into the connection of our relationship. And that's just, like, ugh, melts my heart. It's such a beautiful way to be in devotion. Yeah. There's so much, yeah, I think spiritual, mental, emotional, and obviously physical, but it's like it brings a level of closeness that is way way more than just, like, one levels one level of closeness. Totally.
I've also done a practice of offering, like, going outside into nature and offering my seed to the land. Mhmm. And that's a super cool way to connect with the the natural world. And we we you know, our culture, we suffer from a disconnection from nature, and that practice really brought me in deep. So it opened the door for for more ways for me to be intentional with my body and my sexuality, which has been pretty cool.
Yeah. I've known quite a few females over the years that have done that with their menstrual blood. So it's, and that can be oftentimes in the feminine a a way of creating, like, ceremony and connection and just kinda recentering with the earth and any intentions and, yeah, just just creating that almost more alignment with with nature and the world around us.
And I think it's like, you know, in Chinese medicine, we talk a lot about, like, the microcosm and the macrocosm and that the macrocosm's nature and the world is all these things around us and that the same types of energy that we see and the wood growing strong in the earth and the way the rivers cut through the forest and all these things, the the the movement and the the energy behind these things we actually have in our body.
So I think those kind of practices bring us back to, you know, the Absolutely. I agree. I wanna circle back around to the benefits because I said the one of the benefits for men when you get this is you have more focus and energy. But, also, the sex levels up in ways that I could not have comprehended. Having orgasm after orgasm after orgasm is super cool.
Getting into extended rolling orgasmic states, having the orgasm move through different energy centers in the body, in particular, when you bring it to the crown, there's, like, profound mystical experiences that can open up through this. And it really it was eye opening for me in terms of, my spiritual path. Like, wow. This is available to me. This is the second book in the series. So these are workbooks on masculinity, and, they correspond to different archetypes.
So the first book was called the organic masculine, and it's on the archetype of the magician. This book just published, and it's on the archetype of the warrior. It it's a big book. It covers a lot of information. One of as I was going through what I wanted to share and where it belonged in which book, I at first, I put the non ejaculatory orgasm practice in the lover, which will be my next book.
And then I realized that it was actually my warrior with my dedication and my focus who taught me how to get this practice, and then the lover was more of my relational realm. So the job of the warrior is to integrate our primal drives. And in this book, I talk about violence and aggression and then sexuality. We wanna integrate those so that we can choose how to use them in our lives for good, and that's the the core component.
So I spend a good chunk of time giving all of the yoga, meditation, breath work, self pleasure practices for non ejaculatory orgasm, and then I do a whole other exploration around male violence And why is it that men are causing most of the violence in the world today, and what can we do about that? Thank you for listening to the Libido Lounge. Please don't keep me a secret. Please share this with your friends.
You can find me on YouTube, on Instagram, as well as how to work with me at mylibidodoc.com.