A Lemon A Day ~ Talk therapy with Pettina Stanghon

Welcome to Eliminaday. I am so excited to bring you this new Interview with an incredible practitioner from a life changing healing. I am asked quite a lot about what I've done to heal myself. And it's a question I'm always too happy to answer because I love it. So I thought why not? None of these interviews are sponsored or gifted in any way. I can assure you of that. So every word of your

genuinely enrich my life or I am hanging to try it out very soon. This week I am talking to Pettina Stanghon, a therapist specializing in couples and family therapy as well as addiction. I'm really excited to bring you my chat with Patina for many reasons, but mostly because, and I know I have said this a few times. She honestly truly changed my life when she came into it at a very, very low point a few years ago. I truly believe talk therapy is essential for everyone, but even more so if you're

time. Patina is a solution focused integrative therapist who helps her clients focus on the picture, not just short-term relief, but the ultimate goal of long-term recovery to live your best life. Just a note, the content provided in 11 a Day is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always, always seek the health advice of your GP.

Patina, welcome to my podcast. It's such a thrill to have you on finally. Probably the guests that I've been wanting to have on most of everyone, I would say. this about everyone, but I always say that they've and they have played a fundamental role in my healing. and my journey, but um none more than you. I I don't know you don't like compliments, so I'm probably making you feeling a ri bit awkward right now, but um

Yes, it's you that has completely changed my life. So I couldn't be couldn't think of anyone more suitable to be on this podcast. Thank you very much. That's that's big, but I receive it. Thank you. Abs I feel like you have might have quite a a little bit of a gut feeling that you

So it's probably not too much of a surprise. Now Bettina, with this supplement, I love to just get a feel about all the practitioners I've worked with, how they've helped me, what the kind of work they do and why that work can be really uh beneficial to people. healing or overcoming big major life events or some kind of traumas. So firstly, I would love to know a little bit about you, how you got to where you are today, what your story is.

Oh gosh. Um so it's interesting. I was actually just thinking about this this morning because you you never know how you're gonna end up in this position. Um I was on a a call earlier this morning and I was actually just sitting out in the open and some other woman was obviously listening into my call and I got off the call and she said, My God, it sounds like you're changing lives. And I kind of went, Ah, no, not really, and walked away and then I thought Bye.

Suppose I am a little bit, you know, it it I never planned I never thought uh I wanna run a rehab and I wanna be a therapist. I just never did. I I had a huge amount of therapy myself. Um, I came from a family with addiction. Um

I came from a family w of entrepreneurs. Uh I thought I wanted to be an entrepreneur. So based on my value system, I thought success was being very financially successful and being respected as a woman and empowered and all the rest of it and um and then quite early on via

uh struggles in my relationships ended up in therapy and then just loving it. So I I didn't even qualify as a therapist until um I just had my second child. Before that I I worked in hospitality, I did you know, I started and almost completed two other degrees, one in organic gardening and garden design. I was bloody awful at quite frankly. But I loved the idea. Oh godcha. I I mean I lived in London for 12 years and I wanted to be a garden designer and grow organic gardens.

I was vegan for seven years. I mean I you know you just try lots of different things and then um yeah then via one therapist decided I wouldn't mind doing that course and I ha had a a child and another on the way and then once she was my daughter who's now seventeen was um Just qualifying, that's when I just started working in this field. Um, but ultimately I'm a I I've got that entrepreneurial spirit. So as soon as I qualify.

Um, I just backed myself and went, I'm I'm just gonna do this and I just dived in and I Yeah. So I never went through that working for other people or I got offered work. And I think I did that for a little while and that was at a rehab. And then I went, oh I can do loads better than this. Just ar arrogant and I just went and sat on my after a year and a half.

There's all different areas that you work in though. As you said, you work in addiction and rehab, but you also work in family counseling, individual counseling, couples counseling. What is it about these? I I guess on the surface they look like they're completely different facets of counselling, but perhaps they're not. Why did you want to yeah, why are they why did you decide to incorporate these different areas into one, I suppose?

Because I'm really solution focused and I again I think that comes from coming from a family of entrepreneurs, um, you know, I Studied and done a Bachelor of Social Science and Psychology, and I could be a registered psychologist. The reason I work outside of that is I don't think that is very solution focused. It's very indemnity focused, it's very formulaic.

Everybody wants to be an expert and I'm a big picture thinker. Like what is the solution? And I know the solution isn't ever one thing, which is the the kind of catchphrase of NUSA confidential. It is never just one thing. Um and you know, a a lot of people get very attached to A being the smartest person in the room, a lot of therapy.

um be diagnosing and then and then clients identify with that diagnosis and define themselves now more than ever. I mean you and I were talking about it recently, you know, they put their their attachment style and what how they identify or their gender identity, they list it and it's like that's not self-awareness. And unless these awarenesses

play out in the everyday and impact and improve how you're living, how you're interacting, um, your capacity to to drop into depth and and authenticity, then they're worth effort. So for me it was It's never just psychological. Um, actually my my son had a lot of physiological challenges which brought me to gut health in 2007, which which wasn't even a thing in Australia. So I started working with integrative practitioners, I started integrating that into my work.

Um, and yeah, and then again, okay, so nothing happens in a val in a vacuum. If somebody's presenting with depression or anxiety, what's happening in their relationship? Do we need to talk to their spouse? Do we need to look at their family of origin? Are their family of origin willing to dive in and be part of the solution?

Or do they just want to say, fix him or her? Ideally they're part of the solution. We look at family dynamics, we look at generational trauma, we look at generational addiction and inflammation. It just it's I'm a big picture thinker and I and I want to bring everybody into that. Let's look at the big picture, it's never one thing.

It's so interesting because in I in the past I've had quite a few oh not quite a few, but I've had a few psychologists and it's always been very insular and it's always just been a lot of just me Sitting there and as as I'm sure you can attest to, I know how to talk and I know how to talk about myself for an hour. Um it's just so strange.

So weird that I have a podcast. And you know, I I some I I found that that I found that approach wasn't exactly helpful just uh maybe it is for some just being listened to for an hour, but it's that solution focus that I find is what drives the change within you to b have that awareness rather than just being, I guess, indulged and listened to as well. And and is that then the biggest difference between counselling, which is what you do, and

what I engage with you in in a counselling capacity and seeing a psychologist is like I think there's a lot of confusion around the two. And I know I'm going back to labels here, but yeah, I feel if you could break that down, that would be great.

Sure. I mean I think psychology and studying psychology is awesome because I love information and I love being clever and I and I love diving into just just just interesting data. Um, you know, we talk a lot about different modalities and could this be this or that? And it's like, I love that stuff. But um the the difference between what I do so so I'm not registered because I won't work within the bounds of

of how a psychologist works. And that, you know, they're bound by ARPRA and and certain protocols which I'm just not interested in working within, honestly. And I've never had to, I don't require mental health care plans to to fill my practice. So I I don't need that model of the world. Some people do and good on you. Get the referrals from the G P, get your, you know, ten sessions or forty sessions, depending on what the diagnosis is. But for me

That, you know, sorry, but that that makes for some lazy approach to therapy. You know, I'm not interested in working with people that aren't interested in doing the work. I won't waste my time. I do I do say to people if we're having the same sh session over and over, you know, either dive in and make some changes and really have a willingness to be uncomfortable. Um, Sarah psychologists aren't you're not meant to tell somebody

what to do. I mean, literally. I mean, you know, at its most basic level. You meant to let the client come to that conclusion. The most common thing is, you know, client saying to me, I I've been to a therapist and it is nice to feel validated and heard and that is helpful. Yeah. Step one.

Um, so you do walk away initially feeling better. Hopefully you've built rapport, you feel like you've got your person, they understand you, maybe they you know, so that's all all But then if we're not coming up with solutions and if there isn't change in the everyday and if you've walked out thinking, starting to run a blame story, oh, I've been through trauma, it's my mother, it's my father, it's you know, again I I work as you know with

two trauma therapists. I believe it's not what I do, um, that somatic work, but I believe in collaboration and working through trauma. But again, and and my c um colleagues that I work with will say the same. There's a time for really immersing yourself in in processing the trauma. But if that processing keeps you in victim and it doesn't eventually transition into experiencing and doing life action differently, then get another therapist because You know, uh y there should be change.

And if there's no change and if you're not taking radical responsibility for yourself and and really holding yourself accountable, kicking your own ass and and noticing when you're going back into your own patterns. I mean, you and I have had this conversation many times. कर दो कर दो And it's like, yeah. Yeah. I've never gone into my own patterns ever. But you notice, you notice, and that's progress. And and the other thing is as as you well know, I I work outside of the bounds. I encourage

contact between sessions. I email, I text, I I message through Instagram. I I want to have that type of real time, hang on, I've just noticed I've done this and do you think this is this? Yes. You're doing it again. So let's let's notice it and interrupt it as opposed to seeing you once a fortnight and going, Oh, feeling pretty good today. I can't remember what happened after.

Yes. And that's what I would find too. And I found that um that real time kind of uh help when things have felt very huge in that moment, being able to talk it through it just over a couple of messages and then you're like, oh Oh okay, it's all right. And then by the time I'm speaking to you in a proper session kind of not even a thing anymore. Like you've kind of just forgotten

through it and you've had that and then maybe if it happens again sometimes I've not even mentioned mentioned it to you because I've got that then self awareness of what to do because it's exactly the same. What role does self awareness play in this? And I guess

What does doing the work look like as well? Yeah. Self-awareness is key. You know, i if your therapeutic work with you know with your practitioner isn't building your own self-awareness, if you're not walking away saying, Wow, okay, yep, I'm really getting that. A lot of people want Uh want it to be about somebody else. Oh, finally I got my diagnosis, I've got depression, or my chronic anxiety. And it's like,

How is that helpful? It's helpful in step one in the terms of wow, okay, that feels validating. I really I am. I'm I'm anxious, you know. But and okay, yep, there's a time and a place for medication. And if that's going to be helpful interim, you know, intervention, that's awesome too. Medication is never meant to be used on its own. It is always meant to be used in conjunction with then building your self-awareness.

taking accountability, repairing and resolving any conflicts, learning to respond differently, practicing and doing your homework around responding differently when you're activated. You know, the meds are meant to give you the capacity to then do the change. Yeah. They are not a cure within themselves. And and that's where all of this

Very distorted in my opinion and very unhelpful and very disempowering. So self-awareness is the foundation. Gosh, I really get to understand how I operate. I notice that I do this. when that happens and I and I notice now I become slows down for me and I notice what's happening in my body and I notice the story that gets activated and then that I want that story to be right even if it's painful. I'm a victim. He shouldn't have spoken to me that way.

I get righteous, I get to talk to my friends and be right and then we roll around in our righteousness and it's like that's awesome and you get a kick from it, it's quite addictive. Hardly. You're just back in the same place. Absolutely. It's funny because it's in real time right now and I've mentioned to you I've had some robust conversations over the last few days with different people and that is extremely challenging for me. And this morning I felt really anxious.

It's just really anxious. I felt uncomfortable. I just feel like I need to fix something. And I wouldn't have. even known this pattern and I wouldn't have been able to trace it back. I would have just thought, oh, I'm an anxious person and I'm having an anxious day rather than, oh no, I'm feeling anxious because I'm a little bit activated and I'm wondering if this person likes me still and what they're thinking of me.

Mm-hmm. And I'm able to just trace it back and be like, Oh, that's that's where it's come from. So I don't think I would have known that or had those tools to do that even six months ago, even twelve months ago. And I can only see how that something like that gets the ball rolling to be a tool that you could use, you know, for the rest of your life, hopefully as well. Is that what you know Notice? With paying.

Hundred percent. Yeah, for those that are are willing to do the work, yes. And and I'm just not interested in in somebody that wants to pathologize themselves, you know, but there's there's therapists for that'cause it's not a good business model to say my aim is to empower you to get to the point of not needing

Yeah. And and that works for me because I have a waiting list of people wanting to work with me. So that's fine for me. Um I don't want to be a therapist for the next twenty years and I don't want us to be rolling around in the same stories. Your anxiety is It it's a signal and it tells you something about yourself and what's happening in your body. It's also something that I would say is a verb, not

It's not something you have, it is something you do. Anxiety is a verb I need to control. So in the example that you just used, it's that I have set some new boundaries in place.

and I have noticed how uncomfortable that makes me feel because I'm ultimately a people pleaser. I want people to like me and I want and that makes me feel good about myself because I'm a good person and we none of us, you know, and I've I mean Understanding you will be the villain in some people in your lives stories and it will be distorted and no amount of you trying to not be the villain will fix it.

And that they will be walking around this earth with a story about you that you believe is inaccurate, whether it is inaccurate or not. Um, and then sitting in the discomfort of that. Yeah, it's uncomfortable knowing somebody is slagging me off or somebody is believing I'm a horrible person or I'm a bad mother or I'm greedy.

I'm controlling. Well, you are controlling. You're sitting here trying to control the narrative and adjusting your behavior in order for other people to try and perceive you in a certain light, whether it's true or not. So you are. you know you're controlling. So, you know, i it's that let's be real. You know, you are doing

So here's the discomfort. I have to sit here knowing I've set a boundary, which is my highest priority. It is in alignment with my values and it's incredibly uncomfortable because it's not in alignment with everybody else's values. And I can't kind of honour my values and accommodate for everybody else's values. Expectations. So, you know, and that's where that people-pleasing need-to-control perfectionism, which has its feet firmly in self-loathing and a lack of authenticity.

What are you talking about? Yeah. Um what are the kind of the main reasons and I feel like this m you might have just answered that in this question, but the main reasons women are coming to work with you? Is it this lack of ability to set firm boundaries, this people pleasing nature? Like I feel like I don't want to generalize to women exclusively, but they do seem like traits that are attributed to women being wanting to be people pleasers and controlling surroundings.

Yeah, this is a really big one and um you know, I I'm a I'm a working mum. I I am I have benefited from significantly benefited from um feminism and empowerment of women. My mother was a working mother. Um, all the things I believe are possible for me in my life, I I know have their feet firmly planted in women and empowerment and what have you. However

Do I also believe that the flip side of that is that we have our innate conditioning, whether it's from a gender perspective, which obviously opens up a whole nother can of worms? Um, but our our role as what we perceive. a woman must be liked and every everybody's different depending on the environment they grew up in. Um and and wanting to be liked. I mean, men are definitely more comfortable with not being liked than women. There's no question. They they really like me don't like

care. They have a greater capacity to sit in that discomfort, or maybe they don't even feel the discomfort. I mean some men do, but um And speak up for themselves. Yeah. I find they're so much better at speaking out for themselves in ever in work capacities, every capacity. Yep. Hundred percent. But the the problem in my opinion with the current flavour of feminism is that um You know, and as I say, I I acknowledge the role, I'm not anti feminism, but it's not helpful or empowering.

Expecting other people to change, society to change. Like, should there be equal pay for equal work? Of course there should be. In workplaces, is it necessary? In parliament, Jesus Christ, absolutely, 100%. Let's dive in. But in relation It is you know, it has had a really negative impact and women frequently don't feel empowered. And actually, in my opinion, they're encouraged to

to blame, to project. You need to validate me. I've literally just come out of a two-hour mediation with a couple, you know, and um and she was saying he needs to validate what I'm doing. And I said, but you don't value what you're doing. So you think I'm just a stay at home mum and you and we're gonna talk babies, two young babies, you know, and you think I I'm not doing something I need to get a job outside of the home and you're not valuing being a homemaker and

And then you're saying and I need everybody else to validate it before I can feel good about myself. It starts with you. You know, being a stay at home mum, raising a human. Setting up their gut health, nutritionally balancing their diet, making sure they get enough sleep. You are setting up a human.

particularly from zero to seven, their nervous system, their values, what love looks like, what self care looks like, how to make yourself happy as a woman rather than self loathing and self like that is like no pressure, but that all starts with you. With the mother role in someone's life. Is that what you're referring to? Yeah. Yeah. So if you're not validating yourself and you think I should be outside of the home earning an income.

in order to feel empowered and and you know and I mean I was a working mum so I get it. I got au pairs in and and there's a consequence for that too. But you know, it's that we all have to take ownership for our choices and our values. And that means first and foremost getting clear on what your values are and then on top of that, what are my priorities? A priority is just the value that's at the top of the list that I'm going to prioritize. Um

And then yeah, so getting clear on that. So do I feel that that's been lost for many women? Yes. What's the most common feedback? I lost myself once I had kids. Yeah. I was this empowered young woman, yeah, or whatever age you are. And then I got married, that was awesome. We fell in love. I had my fairy tale. Awesome. There's the conditioning from the fairy tale stuff, which we can go into. And then I had children and then I lost.

And uh and you know, and then I never got it back. Maybe I never felt good about myself again. I criticized, I didn't know whether to be a mother or a working mother, I disconnected my husband, I started blaming him, he has to validate me, we're not having sex. It's like So that just happened. So for me it was like working with women, then working with couples and helping them really recalibrate their relationship is very rewarding because that's where it starts. It starts with us.

Looking for social change and justice when you're not living in alignment first and foremost yourself. That's that's that's a messed up way of working. First start with yourself. Are you really instrumental in helping me reframe this narrative of um There I certainly don't feel and we've discussed this as well, like I feel like this very independent, strong, empowered woman, but then you were like, But it's okay

to want a relationship. It's okay to still s at times feel lonely or feel s a alone or feel like you would be enriched from a relationship. And I think so much of the narrative is around the fact and and I had it in my head that like if I need someone or I'm seeking it or this real a relationship to be happy, then I'm not complete within myself. I need to feel that 150%.

Within myself, um, before I can go seek that out, and you're it was just so validating and changed everything to here, but you can't get. like like a connection with someone else with yourself. Like it has to there are some things that can't be manifested solely within yourself. And I think that was just such a relief. for me and perhaps maybe for women listening that um you know it it doesn't make you lesser then because you would like to have a connection with another human being.

No my goodness. So all the S. Yeah, a hundred percent. I remember that conversation. And um you know, I believe we're on the planet to be in relationship and to relate. Um and that's, you know, connection. So yes, is it important to h start with yourself and have a connection with yourself and know yourself and build self awareness. Of course. A thousand percent. Of course it is. Um however, you know

we we can you can go up the mountain and contemplate your neighbor and become and and have some aha moments and that's all awesome. Until you come down off the mountain and and start to test those awarenesses and those new kind of understandings with another human, you know, who won't necessarily validate or align and and then you go, Oh, this is too confronting, you've just pushed my buttons or he triggered me or she triggered me. And it's like

Well, whose button is it? My button. Right. And and how did they push that button of yours? You know, is it helpful for you to say it's about them or is it great to go, wow, I feel really activated. That person said or did That's interesting for me to understand about myself because ultimately I want to be in relationships with myself, with my friends, with my lovers, with my family. You know, they all have the capacity to push a button of mine. All those buttons are mine.

So I need to be able to relate and I want to feel deeply connected with another person. I mean that relationships are hard, you know, they're hard. You can you can I have a lot of clients who think that they're self-aware and and they are, that's not to say they don't have any self-awareness, but then they're constantly triggered. No, I have to put a boundary up because you've triggered

Well how is that helpful for you? Like why don't you lean into the discomfort of the activation and have a conversation? Rather than boundary, boundary, boundary, trigger, boundary. It's like that's not that's not I'm blaming some of you. Challenging yourself. with you you're extremely helpful as well, was helping to um know when my past was impacting my present as well, like when old stories

old things coming up and I'd be saying, talking about a situation now and you'd be like, But that is is that the situation right now, today? I was like, No, no, no, no, but it was two years ago. You know, this is what happened two, three years ago. It's like, but that is not happening today and it's so easy to get caught up in those stories that we build our whole lives around. Why, you know, how can talk therapy, I suppose, help undo

And untangle these stories slowly, because it can take a lot of time, but surely. And how can that then help process what has happened? Yeah, so again, what is self awareness? Well, understanding the narratives you have running. And yes, I do give a lot of my clients homework and some of it is, you know, Brene Brown, watch the TED Talks, read her book. get in the arena in terms of understanding your stories. Because yes, we all have a whole category of stories.

Different areas of our lives. And when you're activated, you have to know the story I have running in my head right now is that he should be respecting me and he should never have. And it's like, okay, write all of that out or say it out loud. Yeah, because sometimes if Ridiculous. Like the stories you have Ronnie are just ridiculous. And how many times have you said to me, well, now that I say it out loud, Yeah!

Yeah. Or just never going to happen. Like sometimes you're like, that's just not rooted in reality. That is not going to happen. That person is never going to do what you're saying. Absolutely. And you know, the the problem or the gift with our brain is that um it it runs off the input that we put in. So and we all want Even if it means experiencing more pain. At least I, you know, do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? I'm telling you, most people would rather be right.

Even though it takes them down a road of misery and self loathing and believing other people don't like them or they're not enough or whatever. And believing everybody should be responding differently or or be different or men should be different or women should like whatever it is. So it's that So what is your story? You know

Stop shooting all over yourself about how others should behave or how you should feel or how how an empowered woman should respond and start getting clear on what am I believing in this moment? What is the story that's running. And then can we interrupt that story? Let's challenge the story. Bar and Katie's another wonderful book to read, loving what is. Like get clear on the narrative, interrupt the narrative, challenge the narrative as opposed to going, yes, see?

Y I'm right and I talk to my friends who agree with me and empower me. So called the empower you and and I then come up with all the examples in my mind to prove that the the distortion I'm running is accurate. See, I link that up and that up and that up and that up. And then I feel right and I'm right. And and I'm miserable, but I'm righteous, so it's awesome.

That's the story of my life. Um What are the how rewarding has it been, I suppose, working with people and witnessing their growth, witnessing them changing patterns, stories?

And leaning into this discomfort and perhaps even evolving into a version of themselves that they've never been and knowing that you played a part in that. And how rewarding can that be? Um, it is really rewarding. Um, you know, I It's really rewarding. I mean the reason I get I I like to have the contact between sessions is yes, I would rather have the

I just had a win. I mean I got one this morning. Um I'm I've just, you know, I had a client um who was very activated just by COVID and I've had obviously had a lot of clients and a lot of relationships that have been impacted. Um, and she and her husband, after seven weeks of work with me and up Scop Show, have reconnected. They're on uh up opposing sides of of the COVID debate.

Um the husband said, Can you get her to change her mind? The wife said, I I need you to get him to change his mind. That was their belief at the beginning of the sessions. And by the end I said, Unless or until you can really compassionately see the other person's perspective and hold space for that and still find a way to connect because

the phenomenon these days is I I surround myself with like minded people who validate my my worldview and I have no capacity to hold space for another person's worldview, whether that is in society or within marriages that's happening a lot. Like can we vehemently disagree and love each other and respect one another? And she they got there in a in a seven week period. And once again I ended up working with her mother and his mother and we

at family history and trauma and what was driving it and blah blah blah and and it was just yeah to get a we've we've just reconnected and I did not think this could happen at the beginning of seven weeks. It was really awesome. Um it's a good feeling. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And what do you think, and we might have touched on it a few times, what do you think the general conversation around healing and processing trauma is missing?

Accountability. I mean honestly, I think I think there's a real fixation on staying in victim. Um and I think I understand how we got there, that even acknowledging that there is a victim had to happen. Um, you know, that that uh whether it's about domestic violence against women and children, whether it's about um gender identity, that all of this was necessary, that the dialogue was necessary. But do I feel that it has swung to a point where

radical accountability and responsibility for yourself and your own well being is is being sacrificed. Yes, I I do feel that. Um, you know, everybody else, you know, the the the cult of being offended, cancel culture, all of that. is is is an indicator that yeah, we're looking to blame and and policies need to change, yes. Um, you know

First you've got to be able to be okay with yourself before you start looking for everybody to validate you. Everybody isn't going to validate you. Life is difficult and uncomfortable. Everybody isn't going to make you feel safe. You need to feel safe within yourself. You need to address your own nervous system. You need to have an understanding of yourself before you expect everybody else.

Mm, that's such an important point. Um, if someone is listening and is thinking, I know you said that you've got a wait list, but they'd like to work with you. What is this is there something they should know? How many sessions would they need? Like how I suppose what what how would work what would working with you look like in comparison to maybe just a psychologist from um Google? Um

So I only work by referral now. Um and and I do as I said, I mean I did a seven month stint with this couple, they're both in Melbourne. and um we're done. You know, I I probably won't be scheduling sessions with them unless or until there's a you know, the next crisis and then awesome, let's re engage. So for me it's it's just a crow that's just Yeah. It's fine. Bye. Acceptance, acceptance.

Like are you ready? I like to work in an immersive way so so that it's cumulative, so we have contact between our sessions so that It's really full on and I understand as you've explained, you know, your family history and your patterns and I really understand what your model is so that I can pull you up in real time and and we start to make changes and you notice those changes in real time. Um and and it's usually sort of

A three to five month process depending on what we're working with. And then as we ha as you and I have, we might go months with no contact whatsoever. Because I'm Fine and healing Everything's so awesome. Everything's fine. I'm so I'm perfect again. So it's fine. And then you slip back into your old pattern and you go bada and and you'll sort of send me a novel and I'll go

this this and then maybe we need to unpack that and then you'll go yeah I'll work on this first and I'll come back to you when I want to unpack it. So that that's how I work. It's usually intense for three to five months maybe and then it's kind of sporadic. Yeah. And what about someone listening um who perhaps doesn't have the budget or doesn't have the resources to engage in a therapist?

Um, and it I I usually would ask does it matter if they live in another state, but we do all our sessions over the phone or you do Zoom anyway, so that's not a not relevant. But yeah, if someone doesn't have the resources perhaps right now, but they do want to engage in this kind of work, what can people in this position be doing to support themselves.

There's a lot of great books. There's a lot of great podcasts. Um, you know, there's I mean, for relationships, there's so many really great podcasts about marriages and about I mean, um, Esther Perel has a great um one where you literally are sitting in on couples therapy and you and you frequently I still listen to them and go, Yep, that's me or yep, that's you know, so um there's a lot of great podcasts and and and Brene Brown has a great podcast and

um, you know, when it comes there's great books and so reading all of those things, as you and I know, it still comes to a point of accountability. Part of the reason I mix up, which is again why I don't work under the traditional psychologist model. I do like a 30-minute session. I I say email me. Initially, you'll have an upfront cost of this, but it will diminish to a point that it's it's doable from a budget perspective. So email me your download. I will read it. We will do an

Then I'll text you a follow-up. Here's your homework. Read this. Listen to that podcast. Start holding yourself accountable here. And then go away for a month or six weeks and then come back and we'll see. Like there's different ways of making it work. If somebody wants to dive into change work, It doesn't have to be every week for an hour and a half or it it doesn't you can configure it i if they're invested, they'll make the changes. Yeah.

Tina, I could ask you a million more questions, but I've already taken up more time than I promised you I would. But thank you so much for coming onto the podcast and sharing all your insight. And no doubt you'll be getting a panicked message from me anytime soon, so. Always a pleasure. Thanks so much. Thank you. Bye. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of 11 a Day. I'll pop all the links in the show notes. In the meantime, if you can hit subscribe, leave a positive review.

And share on social media. Any combination of those things, I'd be so appreciative. Until next time, chat soon.