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Hey, Welcome to the leading saints podcast. Now, for many of you that are brand new to leading saints, it's important to you know that leading saints as a nonprofit organization 05:01 c 3, dedicated to helping Latter saints be better prepared to lead, and we do that through content creation. Get so much positive feedback on the podcast, our virtual conferences, the articles on our website, and you definitely gotta check it out
at leading saints dot org. And On their home homepage at leading Saints at are, you can actually find the top 6 most downloaded episodes to the podcast. So if you're new, like the content wanna jump in to some most popular episodes head there after you listen to this episode. Alright. We'll back to the leading Scenes podcast. Today. I'm in the Gilbert, Arizona studios for leading saints, which is really what is this rocket media? Derek eric on off off camera here helping us out. So And today,
I'm welcoming in elder clayton mask. How are you? That's fine. Thanks. Nice. Now. We are sitting right across from each other, and that's how you'll you'll see our view as well so No, Elder Mask, you are a that as they call an Em america's general authority? Is that? I mean, how do you... People ask you what, you know, what are you? What do you say? Yeah, that's what it is is they put you on a meredith status when you arrive at a certain ripe old age of 70. Yeah. And and how long did you serve
as a a general authority? 6 a half years. Nice. Nice. And it was 1 of the things you get called and you know, well, I have about till my seventies birthday type of thing. It's about it. Cool. And where are you originally from? El Paso, Texas. Nice. And bet you spent most of your time in Gilbert, Arizona to raised our family here in Gilbert
Arizona. I may send Gilbert. I see. And I guess, I mean, the I mean, 82 years of your life, we could spend hours and hours talking about different dynamics of your life. But let's just go to your career, which is you were a seminary teacher. Right? To your teacher for 30 years, and there's a little boy did you dream about being a seminary teacher? Where did the desire begin? I just always wanted to, be able to affect the uses? The church and help them anyway I could.
Wound up after my mission and after the By experience I wound up in Southern California teaching early morning seminary, then I'd go out and be a salesman. Oh, yeah. Because that was like you're calling. Was a ever teacher. Yeah. I. And I just went on and did that, but I got enjoying it so much that I looked into it and decided to to stop my career in Los Angeles, and get involved with church education, which I did, and they... My first assignment was May, Arizona.
Oh, okay. And we came over here and raised our 6 children here loved every minute of it. So seminar what brought you 2 Arizona. Wow. Wow. And what was the process back then as far as getting certified or becoming a... Full time 7 year teacher. Well, first, you had to have a desire to do it and sometimes they like you to have a college degree and then some specialized training, and then put in the classroom and check out, see.
See if you can see if you could survive, see if they're chew up and spit you out if they're just chew up. I'm sure in some days it felt like you're were just getting chewed up. Sometimes you're not chew, but it was great below load Yeah. So were you at out, like, a specific high school for the majority of your time? Initially, with seminary I was. First assignment was about 2 years and then
about 3 years and another 1. And then they sent me back to Los Angeles to open up Spanish institute and in the Los Angeles area, and it wasn't going in Spanish. It wasn't and I had gotten involved in it when I was living in la because I was a branch president of a Spanish branch, and our kids weren't really going the missions and temples. They were going to prison and in the San Fernando Valley Los Angeles. And I would call up Salt Lake and say, you know what who we really need
here. Is a seminary institute program in Spanish and their culture and their language so that we can, you know, give them the opportunities that where all the other kids are getting. They said, well, we have it in English all over. They just need to learn English. I, well, it sounds good, but it's not happening. Yeah. And I mean, basically, said if you wanna do it to do it yourself. Oh, wow. And Sony kinda got involved in doing it myself in through their proper channels, of course, but
I just loved it. I just loved to being able to get in there with the kids at the bottom line as I looked into it seriously took the classes as necessary. And signed up, and they sent me reassurance owner. Wow, and they were going to send me to latin America, but about that time. They had decided to hire locals from down there, and they should have hoped you like Mesa. We live it. Great. Nice say here.
And here you are. As 5 years later, they called me up and said, We need somebody to move back to Los Angeles, California and open up the Spanish institute program there. Would you go back over there and do that? And we did and we loved it had a wonderful experience and we opened up about 18 programs in that first year in Los Angeles. All over from Si Warren up and my magic Mountain, all the way down to San Diego, all these little Spanish branches all over the Los Angeles, Australia. There 18
of them I got going that year. Wow. And it was great. Yeah. I loved it. Came back over here and and you serve your mission in Guatemala so you were flew and and especially in the teach teaching gospel. Yeah. I'm rushed served in the Guatemala in Simple America. Yeah. So what what was it about teaching like? What do you feel like, define you in your style of of teaching seminary? I just felt that all of the young people. I wanted to lift and inspire him to want to be more like savior.
More like him 1 desires to serve the fellow man. I love everybody, and I hooked over to love man and I thought we really ought I'd love her neighbor and and I wanted to help the young people have a real desire to do that. And somebody institute it was a wonderful vehicle to do that. Yeah. And it turned out 30 wonderful years of... Yeah. I'm teaching it. It started out all in English, and then it went to Spanish, and then it went to both.
Ultimately, they sent me back over here, and we got the Spanish program going in Phoenix, and we got going over here in Mesa. And now now it's a a different situation because most of most of the kids go to English speaking schools. Right. And it's not the same as it was, but those days it was quite unique and necessary and filled a real real void. Yeah. Worked out great. So if you return to a brand new seminar teacher who's excited as you were to, you know, inspire youth and teach
them the gospel. What's some general tips and the their guidance that you'd give give those new teachers lovely kids. Yeah. Just love him, and let them know and love him, and point him to the savior and help him get to spirit. U. And they can do wonderful things in this life as they grow and develop and progress towards being more like more crash like. U. So it was the type of thing that obviously, was, like, a release time saver. So they
there'd be be part of their schedule. Back in the day just like it is today You're... Yeah. Okay. And they come over to the seminary building and there you were ready to teach them the gospel. Right? Right? Yeah. Was there a particular, like, scripture or is... Or say to scriptures, scripture block or whatever that you got excited about teaching or becomes mind whatever we were that year that's what I loved. Yeah. I see. And it it was always every year, it was exciting every year was
enjoyable. Mh. Do you know about how many students you maybe be came through your classroom? I'm about 5500. Yeah. And they're all spread out? I mean, in this area. But I went into him all over the world. Yeah. Literally. Yeah. It's been strange how it would bump into I'd be done and Puerto Rico as an area president
of the Caribbean. Mh. And I'd go to a state conference and and there'd be a an Fbi guy there that would be a part of the securities team and he'd come up to him and and say, brother asked. Do you remember me? I'd look up at a 6 foot 6 giant of young Fbi kid She help me out. And you look familiar. Help me out. Show me his name and through my mind and see this 5 foot hundred and pound kid, you know, and that I taught it in Mesa when he was 14, Now here is A663
hundred pound Fbi agent. Wow. But still remembered to you. You still remember, but I heat it changed a little bit. Much bigger, but I did recognize him when we had great times, But I had that experience literally everywhere. Yeah. That's cool. Assignments. Really rewarding. Right? To hear those. Yeah. So you tie it up until that first call to be a mission present. Is that accurate?
I talked from a... I went into the program in 19 72 and talked to about 19 97 when I went over to Spain, as mission present have to barcelona. U. And then after that, at 2000, I came back, and I kind of finished up for about a year, year and a half and then retired. And I would what I was teaching spanish institute towards the end there, and and I retired and we had lots of things
going. I was a bishop of young adult over at issue, and, that kept me pretty busy, and I just had a lot of projects going and so I retired it a little little early. And then after a retired, kinda get a little surprise 1 day when, When somebody called on the phone and said that this is president Hi leaves office and you'd like to talk to program mask. Out, and I thought like everybody? Yeah. Sure great. Who is this really? U. And she said, yes. This is a president Hi Secretary,
and I oh, okay. You got on the phone for the mask. Yes. He said the Lord wants you to go. He asked me some questions, and he said the Lord wants you to be a general authority and travel all over the world. And just 5 Jesus Christ and lift the saints. Would you do it? Is rant from a normal day to phone call to to a call to serve an ordinary day and then out of the blue, I get called to serve. Wow. And that kinda how happened, and, I said, yes. Yeah. And it just turned up be the
most wonderful experience you imagine. So take me back. What's the story behind being called as a mission president? When when did that phone call go? It was in about 19 97, about 96 last than 96 by February December. I'm teaching my class, and I went back back jordan a window and my secretary is looking in the window, weaving her hands and going. And I had looked at my watch. I kinda look like you hang on a second. I
still got a couple of minutes here. I need to wrap this up, and she goes, she waves her finger, you know, like row. You come right now and pointed, you know, down like that. You come now. I thought this must be important to happen. I walked back in and she says, elder oaks wants to talk to you on the phone. I said, who? She said, elder ropes. The apostle. And I thought, Oh, this is really. Who is it
really? I thought, I like it on the phone it was him, and he said, brother mask, I'm gonna be in Phoenix this weekend, doing some training, and I want to interview you and your wife for possible future church service. Will you be at at my hotel and meet me in the lobby at took I said, of course. And so, you know, we went home and I told my wife where it happened. And she what's this all about? And II1 of a clue.
And we went... And we had the meeting at weekend, and he said, you've probably wondered if what this is all about. He said, This is an interview for a possible future church service. U. As a mission president begin this summer, and like to ask you some preliminary questions to find out your worthiness, your willingness and the timelines in your life. And these are preliminary questions that this preliminary interview, you may hear from us again, you may never hear
how much again. So gonna tell everybody had this reading because you know, nobody knows where it's gonna go from here. But Number 1. How is your health? And he just started asking us, favorite series of questions, and at the very end, he said, Well, it says looks very promising. My wife said, look, will we, will we not be called this demo over. Our house is in escrow right now. We just sold
it. Our we're won't moving into another house, and we need to kinda know what we're gonna be doing, what are the odds that will get calls and he said, well, listening to all of your answers and and feeling what I'm feeling. And by the spirit, I think it's pretty 90 90 95 percent chance that will be probably call you this summer. And sure enough. About week and a half later president Mon called on the phone and officially extended the the call. Yeah. The serve was at president
companions into the Spain barcelona inter mission. Wow, In our life changed dramatically. Did you know did did they F I to tell you where you were going to the time where is it coming year. In those days, they didn't wait till the spring. They waited till the springtime time tell everybody. Okay. He just said it's gonna be a mission, Spanish speaking. Hour, So we thought, well, no. We looked Latin America, We we had both served missions early on the
sixties in Central America. And mainly Guatemala and El sound to her. But we were all over Central America back in the nearly 6 days. We thought, oh, wouldn't that be great to go back for that area. And so we were thinking Well as a mission open at harmed. We know hat. Saw that in the church news. And we, you know, we know this and we know that, and then we were then we got the call spain. We never even looked that direction. Yeah. It was just all Latin America was when they speaks Spanish, but
surprise surprise became Spain too. Yeah. That's right. You guys were originally Met. So... And 1 thing to note in this when you were called, I mean, here your teach teaching I. He had no immediate plans of retiring or stopping teaching. Right? You're were a few years out. I would imagine. Right? Know what I was 19 97, and we just... We would teach this point. We were teaching institute and we're doing in Spanish and we're doing at in English and we were
talking 1 day. And was said, you know, if we wanna be able to go on a senior mission in a few years. We need to get everything in order, and we need to pay everything off and get in a position who we can go out and serve. We would really like to serve wherever the word needs, we're willing to go wherever, whenever, but we need to put our our house in order And so gonna sell this big house that we've been building on for years years. And we needed to just pay everybody
off. And put ourselves in a position of where we can go on 1 of my questions on the preliminary interview was if you were to be called, could you sustain yourself for 3 years? And he said, Like, he says, what I'm really asking. Is said other than your house payment. Do you have a debt. U. We looked at each other getting grind and said, no. Pay anybody off
Yeah. Sold our house and we we were putting ourselves in a position to where we could serve if calls someday, we didn't have a clue would be then. We're thinking more down the road. Right. Yeah. But it just turned right out that he call us on a weekends when we could say, yeah, We have no debt. Because most of our career, we had... Yeah.
Plenty. Yeah. Bet. I in. And another thing though that this... I mean, you have were saw that you had bid a stake president or a bit of bishop or anything anytime. This is really the first, like, a formal assignment to a leadership role Like, I don't know if that's best other than Spanish branch in California. Oh, kidding. Mh Yeah. So I mean, then... I didn't have been an bishop brick in a high council and stake Sunday
school present. I had some... I had had some opportunities to serve in a lot of the different organizations to the church, but I I'd never had 1 but kinda ford bolts quite like this good. So did you feel like you were more inexperienced than maybe some of the your the the others that were... They're going or I mean, and what was that a benefit or maybe? I don't know. You know, when President hi he call me on the phone. He said, I may ask you some questions.
He said, have you ever done anything was really bad that would caught cast bad shadow in the church if it would skulls. How have you lived your life? I said, well, I to they, you know, Try to be easier I a good boy. I don't can't think of anything, you know, particularly that would embarrass church, and then he said, well, can you go all over the world and
testify a Jesus Christ? I said, yes. You should tell me, tell me how you feel about the savior, and I was able to bear my testimony did it profit on the telephone? And I I did. He says, Lord lord wants you to go all over the world and testify jesus Christ and lift the saints will you do it? And I said, well works out. I can do that. Yeah. But I thought at the time my initial reactions no. I don't how they work to get my name you know, who knew my address in Salt
Lake. I'm just buying them own business down here raised Arizona, teach in the 7 Institute and you know, But and when the lord the lord knows your address. Yeah. Yeah. He'll Golf if need you. Need you Hill hills call and that's the way it works I discovered. Yeah. So tell me about, like, going to Spain, you're walking in that experience, like, what do you remember about just finding your footing there or or stepping into that leadership role? What comes of mind any? Stories or experiences.
Everybody going out as a new mission president feels inadequate. Yeah. Everybody does. And the more they get into it, the more inadequate what they feel until they discovered. And people sell them, but at 1 point, you'd discover that you're not a alone out there. The lord does help you and you will guide you
and there are angelic killer. Visitors who will help your out and there there are opportunities to feel the spirit every day and opportunities to to watch your missionaries grow and develop and progress, every mission is like an apple seed when they first come in the mission. And you look at them and you see them as an apple by the time they leave. And you are there to help them grow from that little apple see into the great missionary they
can become. And when you get that that vision of or wants we need to be here to help in that process, but I'm not alone. He'll help. Mh. Can't do it by myself. I need help. It's a very humbling situation. But it does put you on your knees and you do need a lot of help. Yeah. But it comes. And president that Wants always always used to say, whom the Lord calls qualifies. He'll help you out. He'll there'll be angels vice, newbie be Angels on your left. Now to help you and bear you up, and
they They do. That's right. And so tell what Just with... Like, when you walk into that, you're trying to, like, connecting with those missionaries, because you're their leader now and they know, there is this feeling of, you know, I just... We just said, like, the last guy I kinda likes. But, you know, How... Now he's gone and here's, you know, president mask and Was there any routines or things you did
to effectively connect with those missionaries? The first thing we did is walked in the office and myth that on the, office elders and and the ast and phone ring. I mean, we hadn't been there 10 seconds and the phone ring, and it was an fran missionary down south, and he was talking to 1 of the office owners, and and he said, it's a second. President mask. There's an elder Taylor wants to talk to you. No. As Elder Martinez wants to talk to you. About
his companion notice Taylor. Well, what's the problem? I don't really he says he's dying. And what's the talk creator? My lab. I mean, the wall? Oh, am I speaking to it, elder Martinez? From Spain. He was a Span. And we're talking along in Spanish, and he says, I think my companions dying I said, well, what you doing? And he said, well, he's just screaming in pain. I said push his stomach in a little bit? He said, oh, really, really hurt. I said, you know, that
could be sat. I said, where are you? And he says, we're working in. Like, you're know what I'm in charge. I just walked into this place. And I'm 10 seconds into it, and we've got someone just says he's dying. And I said, where are you at? He says el chair, and I don't know where Else is, and I turned to 1 of the competitive about missionary and said, H El is banging. Where is it? So it's about about 6 hours down the real track. And so I said, when's the
first train out of there. I said, 06:00 an Tonight, Elder Martinez, you get out of taylor and get him on train and I will reach you at the at the train stop at midnight. They came. We got them in the hospital, call mission at Bert. I had to get the mission president manual. Find out what do you do in a case like this? What what is the procedure? You know, when I'm looking through everything and trying to figure
it out and call a commissioner department. You got a older of parents got a real stick president and everybody decided that it it were just kind of a... It was a append and they did operate and everything worked out beautifully. But that's how I was introduced but the crisis. Crisis, somebody die saying they're dying and not even know where they are, not knowing where happens to be. And I felt this for a second. This could be a long 3
years. You know, I'm gonna be doing this 24 hours a day, and you wind up spending 24 hours a day. It's 3 years of nonstop. It's like no other assignment you've ever imagined. It's the best of times. It's the worst attacks It's just... But it's mainly the best of times. Yeah. And everything was just... It just got better from there and it was wonderful
experience. Yeah. So with those... Like, for example, your own conferences you feel like you could try to slip back into 7 air teacher mode and and just teach the gospel? When I was teaching in the gospel and I was in in in Spain at the time in Europe, jen in general, it wasn't easy to go out on the street, find somebody to teach and teach him and, it wasn't easy because there was a lot of. Oh, what do you comment? Rejection. A lot of list get lot of the initiatives, Lot of discourage, A lot of
real lot of rejection. So much so that I just felt that everybody we put they became his own conference the first time. It was like it just came in and they were very deflate because it was a tough old month out there. They're all been, you know, rejected for 30 days and we kinda had it come in there to get, you know, get a spiritual batteries charged up, you know, for the zone conference. And so I kinda found that boy, You know, my first thing is how
do you deal with did the discourage? How did you do feel with no day after day, hour after hour, how do you deal with it? And I had to kinda devi a way to try to curb what I was finding, tricked out They hit... I fell inspired to pick up a pencil with an inertia on it like this. U. And I thought, you know what's happening and I got got a little pencil to teach an lesson to teach a concept that I wanted to get across right there right then, that's what
they needed. And I said, you know, to As I want you out on the street and as I walk around with you and I see what's happening, I feel like you were getting driven into the ground like a like a pencil. And it's like you go up and smile at somebody to introduce yourself, and they just say no. And it's like they pound you, and it pounds you into the ground, like a steak and just know after no after no. They're pounding part of the pencil, and the stake is going into the ground.
I said an boy, you get discouraged it's really hard that really hard to get out of that situation. I said, what you gotta do, turn it around and make a po go stick out of it. And so now the pencil led is pointing up, and the inertia is on the bottom, and you're gonna be able bounce along on your quote stick rather then getting driven into the ground with every pound of no. No. No. And so how
do we do that? I said, you know, when you get pounded and they say no, you just remember something like shit out little flock, do good. Letters and hell combine against you. And boy you feel better. And they leave and you're going and you don't feel quite bad and it kinda lifts you and and you kinda bounce bouncing them along, and then get another know and it leans into the ground. And what do you do? Be a good cheer and do not fear for the Lord and with you and will
stand by you. So I said, what am I doing? What I'm getting pounded I don't sit to and try about it, I recite something Learned that at an and studied that morning, a script a favorite to something that you, something that helps remind you who you are, why are you there and and that the world's nearby To help you. I said, but you need to do that every time you get a pounding on the head. You gotta turn it around and make a po go
stick out of it. So what we started doing is looking for favorite scriptures and make, you know, whatever it is it but Rex are happy and reminds you who we you are, memorize it and put a word card, and we had them all, you know, start doing that. And cards and carrying them around, and
they would go around it, and that... We found that after 30 days of doing that, when they came back in their own conference next time, they were a whole lot better off because they weren't just absolutely totally discouraged. They weren't half drilling into the ground. And so it was easier to start working on other things when they weren't so totally discouraged and and want to go home for ford. Yeah. Is that discourage that's can be really
tough to overcome? Oh, it's extremely difficult in some parks to the world are easier, but somebody said 1 time, there's not an easy mission anywhere. Every missions you got as unique challenges, but are in particular mission I felt that moment in time and history historically, at that time, it was difficult to get anybody to listen
to your message. Yeah. Yeah. Any other interactions or ways that you helped to with discourage, maybe meeting 1 on 1 with missionaries who are really having a hard time or anything else come to mind as far as helping him over overcome a discourage. What of the things that I started doing as I...
Again, in this process if I would try to see the missionaries as a little seed and that what do we do to help and grow and progress and develop because as you start growing and achieving things and accomplishing goals And as you're growing and progressing and developing, you feel like you're winning, and you feel happy. Mh. On the other hand, if you're not growing, If you arrive with a admission as an apple seed and you go home 2 years later as an apple seed, something wrong.
You really out you should have grown some and most of the time they do. And the ones to grow are happy, and they brought joy to their. It's just a wonderful experience. After 2, 2 and a half years, but there has to be that growth so that you feel me like you breaking anywhere. Yeah. Doing your job. And it does bring joy. But when I started noticing that for many years, I had noticed in seminary with people that I taught, all these should You know... Those kids are similar, and
not identical. Mh. If you're a parent, and you have a first child, you have the second child once your first being surprised, and not identical. Yeah And not the same and they don't, you know, respond the same way that the first child, you know, and you notice that as a parent. Well, as a mission president you notice it 2 that all the missionaries are not identical. So how what do you do and how do you help people grow and develop and progress that are
so different. But I started noticing a pattern way back, and I started noticing that there were people like B Young, and there were people like spencer Rec chemical, and there were people like Howard hunter and people like proper smith. In lot of ways in what ways, in trench like attributes. And with they hit different attributes sometimes and some are stronger on this 1 and rock quite as strong on that 1 and some emphasized this attribute notice different,
but I started noticing that long ago. But while I was there, I felt inspired to start teaching my missionaries, you know, it's an amazing thing that some of you missionaries rewind me an awful lot of bring him young. Mh. You're organized, your doe, you're strong leader, your goal directed. That's kind of the way he was. And I've also noticed a lot of you right here or a lot like Kim. You're loving you're caring Your understanding you're nurturing, you're inclusive,
like predator spencer kimball. And I see others that are very patient, calm under stress, kind peace maker, like President Howard W Hunter. And then as see some of you, there's a cheerful funnel loving optimistic can charismatic, like the prophet lu smith. An interesting prophet Joseph Smith would get criticized why some for being so playful. So fun loving. You come out and play with kids. Mh. Both if profits are in school food then he'd get criticized by some. Well, that's way
was. Yeah. I said we the truly was, You enjoyed it, and that was all well and good. And calm under stress. I don't know if you ever remember president Empowered w Hunter, when he was at giving a talk at By. I Marriott Center, and the guy comes up to him when he's str with a suit with a little brief briefcase and he tells him in essence. He tell him that I'm gonna be the next prophet, and you would announce that I will private where I'm gonna set off this bomb?
I was in Arizona watching this on the big screen at at the state Center with my institute students. Vanish students. Were watching this, and all we heard was bomb and the queen just went static. Wow. And we waited for it to come back on, waited and never did it. We waited about a half hour went home. Our daughter was going to be why you
at the time. She was at that thing, and she was there telling us all about it that that guy had literally come up and said he were gonna shut off the bomb if president, that's form of 12. Howard every hundred didn't didn't announce this guy is the new profit. And I wasn't there to see it by just heard bomb, but what happened is I talked to security much too later than that. I talked to some people who there.
And they said, he just calmly and looked at the guy and said, no. I mean, I would have brought. You know, but he was so calm under stress. Look at president nelson. I was in a meeting with the general authorities, at the end of the months in Salt Lake when I was there on assignment at the missionary department, And I was in the meeting where president Watson said as we got ready to start the
meeting. He said, Elder Nelson, who was a member the 12 at the time, Would you share with the brother the experience you just had in Africa, and nobody knew anything at all about it until that point, Mh. And then he told about the famous episode of for their they were Robbed and he gonna held hostage... Kinda have the hostage situation and he kinda told the whole story and then said, with it, you're not at Liberty to tell anybody about any of this. Well, we get the details right off, you
know, Russia. Yeah. Right out did that right after it happened, and have we just... Oh, but reported did he do when the guy says, you know he's gonna a kill him He's robbing he's can do this that other? And what what the problem what president and Say, to look right at the guy and said, I'm prepared to meet my maker. Are you? Calm under stress. Yeah. You know, But you can see these cranks like attributes
in all these 4 different profit. Yeah. So with the missionaries, you would, like paint the picture of these different I would profit it identities. Right? I I would do that. And then I would say you are a lot like these great prophets. All of them had natural strengths. So lot of people blanc quicker twitch or gifts. Yeah. And people have worn with them, then they develop them and they it's easy to develop because it's natural, but you had to work
on. And they're not so easy. You were born a gift, and it becomes obvious in life pretty quickly. It's not easy to to develop all of these simultaneously. But all all of these prophets had natural strengths, all of had weaknesses but they all overcame their weaknesses. They all be king Christ like and so can you. Lord loves each profit. He also loves each 1 of you. And I... And then I ask him, you know, of all of these prophets, at least 4 profits we we illustrated.
Who does the Lord love the most? And every time the entire group of missionaries would just be silent. And say, right now, look at these 4 prophets and just the profile looking before price like attributes. Which 1 that feels more like you? Are you are you a b realm type of missionary? Or you would chose a smith type. Spencer w Kimball, r adobe. You as and noticed I've watched, Do you have to work with you. You're not all identical. All of you do remind me have these prophets.
And then I said, everybody close your eyes, be very honest and just raise your hand, when I ask you. K? How many you identify with B me on with president and bringing me? How many of you are kinda of like that? Kind of an organizing and a doe and how many I noticed about 25 percent of the hands went up. And I said, okay, Put him down. How many and I went through all 4 and it was amazing. As that looked around, it was about 25 percent. Yeah. Just even all around even all around I did that
through the entire mission that first round. We did admission tours zone conferences and went all mission and did that. And found it was pretty darn uniform that... And then I said to myself. So how do you get... How do you develop these christ attributes so that you can become more like the lord, won't be more like these prophets. Yeah. You know, but you can develop it and they develop them and who can you? And so that kinda became a challenge to everybody. Whoever you are doesn't.
Z. He doesn't love 1 of you more than our other, at met which profits you like, but all of you are light they are. Yeah. And it just just lit fire under the missionaries that, you know, floor up, we can do that. That kinda became a theme for the whole mission of the workshop, we can do it. And, you know, talk about optimistic. What Georgia's is gonna say? You can dig a pit in Nova Scotia and throw me in the bottom of it and pile the Rocky Mountains on top of me.
And I'll come out on top. Yeah. Why? He just never quits. He keeps all going. He just goes and goals and he just never quits. And that Joseph had that that optimistic ability or he didn't quit on anything. And he just kept going. So at any rate? Yeah. That's available. That seems kind of what we started with. And we've carried it on about 3 year wheeler. Yeah. And then I appreciate that because they're...
Sometimes we, you know, I prefer because rightly so on the savior and be becoming more christ like, but can as we sort of need something little more attainable in the moment. Right? Okay. It can be perfect today. And these profits were perfect, but there are something least to reach towards on our journey and quest to being more like the savior. Right? And we at least we'll be in the right trajectory. Yeah. Doing
that. Right? That's really helpful. But the better way to learn, the lives of these profits and the more that they follow them and and and try to emulate them and try to become like them, the more like chrysler are becoming. Yeah. Anything else when you think about the mission and connecting a lady that those young missionaries come to mind tactics routines that you did, anything else worth mentioning
during that those 3 years. You know, It seemed like every time that we would get together for our own conferences, you know, there was they'd been a crisis head. There'd been something... Somebody else have been dying. Sorry in a way something something was always happening. And, we would generally have to kind of remind everybody about rules and remind them that, you know, that if we don't change directions, we'd wind up where we're going.
And so it's... There were times we need to make little course corrections along the way, and we've repent regularly. And, I would use a lot of different little object lessons to kinda try to get that seam across the whole mission, like Joseph Smith, making that statement that he was, you know, you put him in the bottom of that pit, Put the rocky Mountains on him and and he just... You know, he wouldn't quit. He would just keep on, keep it on.
That whole keep on keeping on attitude. And so I got an a jar, kind of a ball court jar last jar. Put it sold it with marble swords sweet and put a ping pong wallet and screw the top bond and say, okay, you're out there on the street. And you get to know, and, you turn the thing upside down, you got a ton of weeds on top with the pink pong ball. Alright? But do you quit? No, not a Spain barcelona material. We don't quit. We just keep on and keeping on it.
And you start wiggling the thing. And as you wiggle it what happens to the ping pong wall. It was the top. It dual to the top. Right? And see that it chamber that we rate it on the top. And then as you get next know comes along. To shut over and you just got pounded by a wheat, you quit. Or no. Yet. We're not yet. We don't quit. We keep on keep it on. We got this keep on keeping on your. Just about that time.
I went to of of us, mission president's training a seminar with our area president of resulted d At the time. And he said something to us, and I went back and I put it in a little... I took his quote and put it in into a little monthly, bullets the missionaries. And I said, you know the president Thor said, he said, missionary work it reminds him of flying a huge commercial jet liner.
He said that he loved the taxi at the edge of the runway and I cold dark snowy winter day in Germany and then pull back on the throttle. Is he gathered speed down the runway had always thrill him to fuel lift off, he then heads steep upwards through the dark almost black fore bon clouds that seemed that he would swallow them him up at any moment. But he knew that there was light above if he would just keep on keeping an not.
He knew he would break through the discouraging darkness into the billion rays of the morning sun. My beloved elders Z and priest leaders I too know that there is light and truth up above and that if we will continue pulling back on the throttle and given it our all we've got. If we will just keep on keeping on will burst through that discourage and despair that so often accompanies to work with the word, and into the light of the sun, S0N.
Mh. But we would take a theme and we would kinda build on it and use it in a lot of different ways and take it all through mission. And after while, You know how difficult it is when he get a door slammed in your face. In there. Time after time after time, there was a little little girl's movie. And Walt disney movie. It came out years ago, and there was a book written years ago, but a little girl named Polly. It sounds kind of ridiculous. You know, they...
Oh, she's little just a little cheerful girl and she's happy and and this is, you know, just a ridiculous story, many missionaries would think. But as Tell a story, and it would analyze this little girl and Did you ever see that movie? I don't know if I ever saw it but I know. I've heard of Polly. Yeah. You heard of Polly. Yep. And and all mission is has heard of Polly about... We kinda got into the Polly principal. U. Because that kid came to town and just changed
the entire town. I mean, their attitude in that town was negative. It was pessimistic. It was... The town had some real serious mental problems. And this little girl that came to this town to live with her this little orphan girl came we live in this town with their aunt polly and in the movie, the whole thing turned our everybody's sour, everybody is, and this 1 little girl with their attitude is able to turn the whole town.
It's a marvelous story. You. But to this day, we've heard from many of our missionaries, 25 years later, see that they've taught that story to their kids, the polly principle and that it look for the good people, expecting to find it, and you surely will. Kind of the theme of the whole saying. Yeah. But you're gonna find what you're looking for, and there are good people everywhere you look. Mh. And they're good people you work with, and we need to learn to look for the good
people. And that's what that pulling in a principle would teach. In and she learned to play the glad game, she basically she would count her blessings. When ta wet wrong, she would count her blessings. We sing about it in church. Mh. We read about it in with scriptures. In fact, I think this savior talk that principle.
And then all the way through this book, you start realizing, that this to the girl's dad who had passed away as a protestant missionary and no. West British Ci ordinance, he was protestant preacher, and it taught his little girl, the doctor crashed, wow, in a really interesting way it was easily transferable to the actions of the missionaries in the movie, at 1 point, the still girl walks at... She's she's helping her friend a a boy of a 10 year old boy.
She's helping to get into this house of the mean man in town. She just walked right up to that door, and she knocks on that door. This own crotch of the old man's opened up the door very men. And 20 you kids want? And she sw at him and and she starts talking with him in the bottom line and she just works way right into the house and and does away with all of the negativity and the the the the fear and and the danger and everything else and just walk right.
And I'd see the missionaries. And of you ever have that experience at the door. What's your door approach like? And they say, oh, my goodness is that Paul, it's got a great door coach. I gotta try that. And you know we'd practice some of these little techniques of playing the glad game or techniques of you know, what's my approach like. And, you know, of those kinds of things and with role play, but we'd take a scripture and apply it, you know, just something simple like that, and then
would role play. Do you have a sudden doing it? Yeah. And really appreciate about a lot of these principles is you're not just teaching them a concept, but you're, like, couch in a a visual or a story or, you know, the Poly principle. Like, so when these things happen, like, the brain can retrieve them more and be like, yeah, I'm I'm just the ping pong ball right now. And the weeks on ta me, but just keep on keep it on and and He'll out on top.
Right? And we had a lot of those kinds of think black. We had a big old piece of wood. However we calling him blockade head. It was about a 1 foot by 1 foot by about 8 inches cut off of a a dual lamb beam, big block of wood, and I painted some mirrors on me ears in the shower. But a little know was on him had to wig that I put on him, and I got a great big giant nail about a foot long and about as about as big as as your a little finger.
And Diameter is big old male and edged I wanted to teach a principle of why we have our phone conferences regularly. And why we read the scriptures every day regularly and why we do the things we do easier in the mission field. And I'd saved How did you get this nail into this block they'll elder block here. Can you do it in 1 whack? How many can you up my bear gonna get a hammer? Say was 1 whack, who thinks they can get that into that block?
Then always have a challenge, and they come up, and I say, well, don't do it You'll... You know, you'll probably chip something off and hurt you. So, you know, don't do it. But you sit up here and do it. Just 1 little tap at a time. Instead of 1 great big old wagon You're gonna... It hurt. Just 1 little tap And if you tap long enough, what's gonna happen to nail? And nail gonna go all the way and gonna get that in that head? I said, how many of us are like blocking?
And how are you gonna get that idea or that principle or that doctrine or whatever into your head into your heart into your soul where you act on it. How do you do it? 1 little tap at a time. Mh. Know, you're teach teaching repetition, but you're doing it visually. Yeah. And you're doing it in a way to where people today what I run into missionaries that we'll talk about block head, Yeah. Or Polly or a lot of these little principles.
Now keep on keeping on, these are kind of little models that became late, but you became very, very common throughout the whole mission, and he had a lot of fun with it. Yeah. And every 1 of your missionaries can... I could probably just say block, and they could break that down or poly principle. Right? So he stole my block head. Your Sunday. Yeah. I'm pointing to my son that who uses it at some time to time when he's
teaching missionaries love it. Very cool. So you come over your mission and that's then your search is Ys bishop for a little bit. I was serving as wednesday say a bishop or at Arizona State University. Having the time of my life. It was wonderful. And then they got interrupted. And I got him interrupted by a phone call from President Hi k. And you're announced in conference. And we were sustained. We were announced and sustained. And we couldn't tell anybody.
How long? It was about 2 weeks before conference where they called and and said, you can't tell anybody tele a conference. So we hit we had tickets to return to Spain. This was... She, We came back from Spain in 2000. In 2003, when the other president was gonna be leaving, and and he was be left. We wanted to go back and just go back and see all the people and visit we didn't wanna do it, you know, with the president we were replaced us. You know, we wanted to get...
Yeah. Just just let him do his say him and do his thing. We'll go and visit the visit people. Better are tickets got ready to go back, and we got that phone call from President Hi Lead and so we were gonna be a general conference and everybody knew we were going to Spain. The the the... I told the steak president what was going on. And said, okay. And I talked to Iowa of our kids the neighbors. Everybody knew were go to Spain. And then suddenly you're not going to spain. All of
a sudden, we're not going to spain. And said was said, wait a minute. What's going on? Why don't go? Well, where you gonna go to conference instead. In fact, Seth, what what your long was a family? Why don't we you just all over there that's that's all be there. Goodness this. And so for 2 weeks, we just had to kinda play dumb and not telling anybody what was going on, but our kids were saying something's up. Or, you know, what is going
on? They may want us all go to conference and Dad says he can get us all tickets to conference this time and He wants us to be there and what's going on and 1 of her bush is something is a foot. They were right. Something is a foot. I so it we got up there and we were called, and it was announced the world and we had 2 months 2 months of training with the brethren up there, and then they
sent us off on our assignments. But in that 2 weeks, I had the opportunity to go out with 8 different 6 different senior brother on stake conference assignments, and they would generally, 5 of the 6 were new stake presidents. I never a been a stake president. I didn't know the process of how you do it. I'd like to call a new state president. Call a new steak president. But I'm on a plane leaving Salt Lake on Where San Diego sitting next to elder at the time now president Hiring.
And we're on this plane. When to San Diego and he says you know, Elder ask, we're not going to San Diego to find the new stake president. We're going to find out who the Lord has already found. And we're there to find out if that's the correct person the Lord is prepared and wants to put in in that position.
Okay. And in the process it is, and he said book an interview, what 25 30 people that are on a list that the state president's prepared when an interview, ask them all basically the same questions, and then we're going to pray and we're gonna find out if that's the right man. And so we interviewed all of these man and he'd he'd asked the questions to 1 man and next 1 would come in after that and I'd I if it might turn,
we've switched back and forth us. And was kinda learning how to do it and what to ask and and I we got through interviewing all of those men. They all left and president Hiring elder army looks at me and says, well, elder mask. Have we talked to the new stake president yet? That's a lot of pressure. A lot of pressure, and I looked right and I said, yes. Then he got real close to him in my eyes. He says, what's his name? At that point, I knew what revelation really is. I've heard
about it a lot with man. Right at that moment. I needed it badly. And I looked right into his eyes and I told him the name that I head and my head and my heart. He said it's exactly what the lord told me. Let's pray about it and confirm it. We did, and we found a new stake president. I'd never had that kind of a revelation quite like that under those circumstances under that pressure. For the next 6 weeks, I went out with elder Maxwell, and I went out elder Old New and Sc and who was in
the 1 of the 7 presidents. Yeah. For a guest of the podcast. So he's great. He he was he was 1 of that I went out with and all of them it was wonderful to be with the those brethren and and learn from them from all of them. But, you know, every 1 of them at the end of the interviewers would look at me and say, have we spoken with the new stake president Tell? And I would look at him and say, yes. What's his name? And all 6 that I went out west during that 8 week period. All of them.
He said the same exact name as I looked into his eyes. So now let's our too much training period. Mh. He send me off to Mexico. Now I'm in the area of presidency on on my first assignment. I get assigned to go out and organize a stake, and I've got an area 70 along with me. You're the senior companion. And I'm the senior companion. And I've got this and it's in Spanish.
Everything's different a little bit, you know I what the Language and the culture and everything we round me was a little different. But it was the same too. Because after we asked all the questions, I looked at him, and I said, added to the oil. Have we spoken to the new stake president yet, and I just looked into his eyes? He said, yes. What's his name? And he told me. We've got our own
knees and prayed about it. Same spirit told him me the same thing that I'd heard before I had that experience with an area 70 as my junior companion for about 16 stakes down there at about that time. That we went out and found the individual lord had already found and already prepared. There was only 1 out of all of them that scared me.
Wow. Because in this particular 1, my companion happened to be brother elder the in area 70, he was in the area presidency at the time, and he was my companion, and we'd had about 29 that we had talked to. And I looked over at him and I kinda went, you know, like, look on my face like. I haven't felt anything yet of you kinda I look on my face. And he was looking at me, like, I have died.
And they said, we got 1 more coming in, and we looked up, and there was a man standing in the door, tada it was like there it was a lighter around. It was like, there he is right there. I looked at that man. I looked at my companion el. He looked at me. It was absolute revelation right when we needed it. But that was the only 1 that was not even close it was... But I've I found going out doing the assignments representing the 12 and using their keys for that weekend, I know what revelation is.
And that phrase of the that the church is led by revelation that the church leaders receive revelation That's not just n phrase. I mean, it's real and it happens a whole of time. Wow, that's that's inspiring. We're so appreciate you sharing all that. Obviously, with going around visiting different areas, you're speaking a lot. And I mean, again, as a seminary teacher, I mean, I don't know if you held
her block with you at around, But... But, I mean, any any thoughts or perspectives you learned during that time of of of speaking so much as a as a general 30? I I found myself doing just what what president Hi asked us all to do. To go out and test 5 guys and and point everyone towards him and bear my testimony. Yeah. And I did it
not all by myself. I mean, I... As a seminar teacher, sometimes, you know, you'd be given a lesson after lesson after lesson day after day after today, it's hard to have the spirit guiding you every single minute, you know, when the crazy things are going on in the classroom. You know, from time to time. But as a general authority at a state conference, well you just gotta have the spirit with you, and it can't be just you. You've
gotta have help. Yeah. And it's very humbling and it's very, but I just... I learned that the lord just will help you. He guides you and you know it's real. Yeah. That's all that toll thing about following the spirit that idea. 1 1 thing happened with Elder Maxwell. He was my last 1 that I that I went out with. On assignment, I was just junior new companion. Like, during your training period on my training
period. It was during the training period. Number 1, I was a little bit intimidated because he was gonna come pick me up on a street corner in Salt lake city on Saturday afternoon, and we were gonna drive out to fruit heights north The Salt Lake to a state conference there, and we were gonna on Saturday afternoon and then evening and then on Sunday. And he was gonna pick me up I was gonna be standing on the street corner in front of front of our apartment apartment Complex.
They're in Salt Lake, and I was thinking, you know, I love his talks. But I have to read him 3 times. To really understand. Is that all? Is 6 or 7 for me. But... To really understand what he's saying? I've got a really dig. Yeah. What if he starts talking to me I don't understanding the first thing Said I have he repeated 3 times. I mean, I would... This was go way through my head and I was thinking man. What do I do? What do I say if I can't understand him. We got in the car. He was fabulous.
He was kind. He had the spirit with him, like... It was just in a phenomenal experience a lifetime. Choice moment to be in the presence of elder Neil Maxwell. Yeah. And be as companion, but it was just great that whole afternoon you mean the whole The whole conference was wonderful. It was over. We're sitting there after we'd talked to the state presidency and everything was over and He says, now you probably have a few questions for me? And I
said, yeah, I do. Just what would you like to ask me? And I said, well, I'm a little bed dazzled and confused by everything that I've experienced for this 8 weeks. And this is 8 weeks are traded like I've never had in my life, and I've seen so many different ways of doing it and it's for many styles and And you know, and I'm a little confused. Sometimes I'll see somebody, you know, a little bit harsh on teaching a particular principle.
Or sometimes old, I'll see somebody that was a what kinder than somebody else on that instance, or. What kind of a general authority am I supposed to be? Am I supposed to be, you know, and he just like semi says? You just be you. Okay. You be you and listen to the spirit and follow a spirit, and you'll be fine. And that just hit me and it it reinforced what I've been teaching my missionaries all that time. It's all about trying to be christ like. And trying to be more like him, try
to do develop our christ like attributes. Now today, we've got chapter 6 and preached by gospel, but we didn't have that 25 years ago. And we were out there without that. But today, the missionaries have that and the principles that you learn in chapter 6 are just invaluable, but that's really what you were saying. And so I've tried, and I tried during my entire time to try to be like those brother that I was serving with. As it has really a really a privilege to be in the
presence of prophets. Yeah. I hear a lot of bad mouthing these days it hurts my heart. To hear how some people bad mouth, 7 of the brethren, and I just wanna tell you, they really are men of God, and they are really worth listening to. You know, president Hi, in 19 61, I would get ready to go on my mission, and I've been interviewed by the stake president and the bishop, in those days you had to have a general authority interview too. So there were about 6 of us in
Texas El Paso. We didn't see general authorities very much at all. But he was 1 coming. He was an assistant to the 12. And he was coming to the state conference and interview a 6 potential missionaries who'd already, you know, were ready, you know, for this or final interview. And I they walked in and he walked out and I walked in. I was the sixth 1. As the last 1. I walked in, and he sat me down, and he looked at me and just said, Are you worthy to be a missionary?
And I looked at him and I said, yes. Then he kinda got out of his chair and cut it a little closer to me. And said, are you worthy to be a missionary? And I said yes. Many got real close in my face? The interesting tactic. Okay. A Deborah fear didn't quite like it. K. And he got right in my face, and he said, are you worthy to represent the Lord Jesus Christ as a missionary? I said, this I am. I've tried my whole life to be worthy. Yes. I'm worthy.
You looked at me. And he broke into a big smile, and he's threw his arms around me. He says, Elder mask, you are gonna be a great. Never forgot. That was August of 19 to 61. A few months later, this obscure general authority I'd never heard of this assistant to the 12 was made an apostle. Lord chose him and put him there. His name was Gordon Bi. I 19 61.
Came held paso. And years later, He called me on the phone and when I lived in Mesa and called me to be in a special witness of Jesus Christ, a 70 to all over the world and testify. Mh. Of Lord. And then when it was time for him to be transferred in the very last meeting we had, with him. I was called on to say the opening prayer. And as I walked up there, I got right up close to him and he got out of his seat and came up to me and grabbed my hand
or pulled me. Right close to him, eyeball eyeball I said to myself, I'm looking into the same piercing blue eyes. Yeah. That I first looked into a 19 60 q. And now I didn't even know who he was then, but I know now. I'm looking at... Yeah. Is it a prophet of forgot. You can't be around prophets and the brother for very long without realizing. They are special. Yeah. Witnesses that Jesus christ. Yeah. And but president Hi he was... At working with president Mon, what a delight?
And president Nelson. Oh, what? I had an experience with Elder Nelson, where, you know, they do some training Seminar, and they do some training all over the world with priest leaders, and they'll send out an apostle. It's kind of a 4 man team of an apostle, and 1 of the 7 presidents and a general authority 70, and an area 70. And that team of 4 will go out to a certain area and have conferences that weekend and do training
and so forth as on. When I went out to do some training, the apostle was Elder Nelson. The president of the seventies that went out with me. And I went out with them was Elder Andersen. Was mouth to quorum the twelfth. Mh. And I was the General authority, and there was an area 70 from New York with us. Rather than Nelson was standing there, and he looks at all these britain... There must have been 800 men in that that sticks center.
All over Ohio. We were in Columbus, Ohio, and they were from all over that area and president Nelson said, before we start the meeting, You don't get a chance very often to be able to shake hands an apostle, but this is this is the time. We're gonna all 4 stand right here up here underneath the mike here and form a line right there, and I wanna shake everybody's hand and look in your eye.
Do you know what happens to your arm, your wrist, your shoulder, your back, your knees, you your your hips after about a hundred handshakes. You know what it's like after about 500. I mean, I'm sitting this thing in Hall, he doing this, or he was 85 years old at the point at that point, and I just could not believe how
strongly he was out. Capable able to do what he was doing, and we were most of us were kind of wilt of of the next connection to and he was just absolutely, but he wanted nobody knew and nobody would ever know how that ache and hurt you know, because he sure didn't let hard. Wow, you know. Just... And on the way back, Salt Lake. Run the plane and I have just had a new spiritual feast all weekend long just being in his presence and being with those great men. It
was just a marvelous experience. As we're going back I thought. When he had me sit right next to him on the plane from from Columbus Ohio to Salt lake. And I thought he's got a crash. In about 2 seconds because I'm a in America about about 1 second. I ever... I am just absolutely exhausted. He talking and taught me from Columbus, Ohio to Salt Lake. You didn't lit up at all. And 1 of the questions I asked you guys said, what do you plan on on doing tomorrow on your
day off? Just I'm going ski on 1 of my grandkids. I said, you're 85 years old Is said oh, I know. Yeah. I said, well, sure. How many take my grandkids. Some of my grandkids and and go skiing. And I just thought a time. What an incredible example. That, you know, nobody could say, they were tired around him. Yeah. Yeah. Well, but being in his presence just was absolutely and I'm amazing experience. And Never forget. That's
awesome. Well, as we wrap up, these... I mean, again, we go on and on and so many stories and crazy, But just what you share so precious and sweet and did gain a new different perspective of some of these roles and assignments and and leadership principles that you implemented that you discovered. As we wrap up the last question I have for use, considering your time as a leader, various assignments you've had. How is being a leader helped you become a better follower of Jesus Christ.
I've kept my eye on the brethren and watched what they do. And tried to be like them. And as I've done it, and I realized that people are called and people are released and it happens all the time in the church but it doesn't matter what your particular position is in the church. The the key that I've learned is to just be as Christ like as possible and follow the spirit and enabling will work out Trust the Lord, body your heart, and put your test in him and it'll all work out.
That concludes this episode of the leading Saints podcast. We'd love to hear from you about your questions or thoughts or comments. You can either leave a comment on the, post related to this episode at leading saints dot org or go to leading saints dot org slash contact. And send us your perspective or questions. If there's other episodes or topics you'd like to hear on the leading saints podcast go to leading saints dot org slash contact and share
with us the information there. And we would love for you to share this with any individual you think this would apply to especially maybe individuals in your ward counsel or other leaders that you may know who would really appreciate the perspectives that we discussed. Remember, the Jody moore presentation about youth and mental health is waiting for you at leading saints dot org slash 14.
It came as a result of the position of leadership, which was imposed upon us by the God of heaven who brought fourth a restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ. And when the declaration was made, concerning the own and only true and living church upon the face of the earth. We were immediately put in a position of loneliness. The loneliness of leadership from which we cannot shrink nor run away and to which we must face up with bold and courage and ability.