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So look for Leading Saints in your inbox by going to leading saints.org/fourteen, or click the link in the show notes. So my name is Kurt Frankham, and I am the founder and executive director of Leading Saints, and obviously the host of the Leading Saints podcast. Now, I started Leading Saints back in 2010. It was just a hobby blog, and it grew from there. By the time, uh, 2014 came around, we started the podcast, and that's really when it got some, uh, traction and took off.
Uh, 2016, we became a 5 0 1 C3 nonprofit organization, and we've been growing ever since. And now I get the opportunity of interviewing and talking with remarkable people all over the world. Now, this is a segment we do on the Leading Saints podcast called How I Lead, and we reach out to everyday leaders. They're not experts, gurus, authors, PhDs. They're just everyday leaders who've been asked to serve in a specific leadership calling. And we simply ask them, how is it that you lead?
And they go through some remarkable principles that should be in a book that should be behind a PhD. They're usually that good. And, uh, we just talk about, uh, sharing what the other guy's doing. And I remember being a leader just simply wanting to know, okay, I know what I'm trying to do, but what's the other guy doing? What's working for him? And so that's why every Wednesday or so we publish these How I lead Segments to share. Welcome back to the Leading Saints podcast. Today.
In this interview, we chat with Kirby Hayburn. Yes, that's right. Everybody's favorite rm uh, singles award. Best two years. I mean, the list goes on and on. He has another movie coming out this fall that I've actually had the opportunity to see a sneak peek called The Faith of Angels. And it is so good. And, uh, just interacting with Kirby at different events. I found out that about a year ago he was called as a bishop, so he is Bishop Kirby now.
And, uh, it's so interesting to hear of experiences of how people are learning in these, in the, in the first year of leadership. And so pay attention, especially to what Kirby says about how he's engaging the youth a little bit differently, encouraging them to get outside with activities that are really daunting and, and hard and the personal growth they experience and how it builds resilience for them as they, uh, grow up in, in this world.
So, phenomenal episode with Kirby as we, uh, listen and learn about his time as Bishop. So here's my interview with Kirby. He, boom, we're giving that. This is the leading scenes podcast, and it is with Kirby Hayburn. How are you? Kirby? Oh, - Kurt, that's an honor to be here, man. You - Wanted to do the music, - Like an acapella version of the Yeah. Of the theme. - We'll probably just clip that music for every episode going forward. - So do you get royalties on podcasts?
- I'm not telling you that because you'll want to cut . So, awesome. So, uh, everybody knows who Kirby is, right? Uh, - I think so. my wife and kids do. - Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, so for people who don't like know you or recognize your, your mug, when people ask you what you do for work, what do you say? I'm - An actor. - You're an actor? Yes. - I get to narrate audio books. Uh, I am in TV shows, um, movies, and, uh, just I I get to hang out with cool people all the time. Yeah. Like you.
- That's right. That's - Right. Because if I wasn't an entertainer, I probably wouldn't be here, Kurt. Nice. - Now and then on Sundays you have a different acting gig, but you are ordained for this one, right? - Ordained acting gig. Well, you - Know, I remember the first we're - Pushing the envelope with the Leading Saints podcast, - . I remember the first few years being a bishop. I'm like, I kinda just feel like I'm playing dress up here. Yeah. And people call me Bishop and things. Yeah.
But yeah, you're a bishop, right? - I'm a bishop about a year and three months. So it's still fresh. Nice. And that, that is true when you first get called, you first think, who am I? Why me? Um, there's 50 other guys that could do this. Mm-Hmm. . Um, and you have to come to terms with this is what God wants for his sheep at this time. Yeah. And it is, you do feel like you're putting on, and the first few times that someone comes in to repent, it's like, who am I?
Oh, those were some hard Yeah, right. Times. Like, who am I to talk with this person? And, um, but you just, you prepare as much as you can and you pray and you fast and you cry. And then all of a sudden it's like a spiritual trust fall. - . That's perfect. - Yeah. And you learn that through this podcast, , how to - Do those through this podcast. - It really is. Leading Saints saved my bacon. Well, thanks.
- Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. So, well, let's, before we get into your time as a bishop, I'm just, so you're, you're constantly working on projects, uh, narrating, narrating audio books. Yes. Um, and is that, I mean, I think a lot of people try and get into acting, but then there's this like moment where they're like, okay, I'm really poor . Yeah. Yes. - I don't, - I don't think this is gonna work out.
Like how did this, uh, was there a moment you thought, oh, this actually may work, - The acting thing? Yeah. Yeah. I just am too dumb to know any better . Yeah. It really was just, um, I had faith in what I wanted to do and who I wanted to be, and I just kept on, I still fake it until you make it. Mm-Hmm. . And someday I'll make it someday. . Yeah. And now it's almost 25 years later, and I've been able to support a family.
We've lived in California for about 18 years, able to support them there. And we've moved to Utah now. And, um, it's, it really is a blessing. And I think it's just having faith in the talents that God blessed me with. Mm-Hmm. . - And so how long you was there this feeling you had to move to California to, to do the acting thing? Oh, yeah. To pursue, - Uh, the, the thing, um, I, I needed to be able to go to one audition in LA the next day, or that afternoon.
It got to that point in my career where I had done, uh, the RM and singles ward and was just filming Saints and Soldiers. And it, I started commuting to LA to get an agent and a manager, and then realized if I really wanna pursue this, then we need to be an la Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. And then 18 years later, luckily my, my careers, I'm to the point where I can live anywhere and still work and support the family. Yeah. And, um, I love Utah. And so we came to Utah. That's cool. And it's spectacular.
- And is it easier to do that in 2024 as far as Oh, absolutely. Having an acting gig, not having to live in Southern California, that type of thing? - Absolutely. That's great. Yes. Yeah. Nice. The whole nature of the industry has changed. Mm-Hmm. . Um, and yeah. And, and I love, I I just love Utah. Yeah. I never thought I'd live in Utah County, though. - . Me neither. I was - Scared of this. Here we are. We got - Us , but - It's a special place. - It's cool. Yeah. I really enjoyed it. Yeah.
That's awesome. So most, I I think back, you know, when I think of Kirby Hayburn, I think of like best two years. Like such a classic Yes. Where obviously a fun movie, a funny movie, but had a lot of heart and Yes. Just portrayed that missionary experience so well that in endeared so many people that watched it.
Right? Yes. Do you feel like, I mean, has that phase moved on as far as like latter day Saint Film and those types of movies that are really well done, but have a churchy message to them? Like, it seems like most directors or producers have to go to more of a general feel good story. Right? - I would agree with that, yeah. But I still feel, I get approached by new generations every year of, we watch Best two Years. Mm-Hmm. , uh, I think that's a classic that people, it Can continues to live on.
And it's 22 years later. Wow. 20, I, I forget. It's a long time. Wow. But it still rings true. And I think it's because it's the innocence of, of the characters and the genuineness. And we filmed this really before Cell, like, this is crazy. Before cell phones were really a thing. You had like the flip phone, but no real internet everywhere. And the missionaries had pamphlets that they would hand out and, but it still rings true. Yeah. - Yeah. And I, I this, so I'm throwing this out there.
You can use this, but I just like, there needs to be a best two years type of thing. And maybe we call the best five years, but it's about like three bishops. Yes. Right? - Yes. Commiserating. That's something that I didn't know existed. There is a brotherhood of bishops, right. In every stake there is, um, a group of men who were in that same boat Mm-Hmm. that were, why me? Uh, who am I?
And that, that's how I found about, found out about the Leading Saints podcast, and it's been around for a while. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Um, I got called and, uh, all of the, this Brotherhood of Bishops in, in my stake, there are eight wards, so there are eight bishops in including me. And I got messages of encouragement from every single bishop, some condolences as well, you know, .
Right. Um, but, uh, there's one bishop in particular that said, you need to listen to this and study it and understand it, because the handbook is amazing and great, but the Leading Saints has these real life practical, um, experiences. And That's awesome. I, so I dove in and I was like, oh. Because we've done a podcast before. - Yeah. I did on the BYU Management Society that Yes. Had me do some podcasts. - Yeah. Yeah. So, but that was years ago. Yeah. I was like, well, Kurt's grown - Up.
That's right. got a Big boy podcast. It's a big boy now. Yeah, - That's right. And it's amazing. Nice. And so many wonderful - Things. Well, what's what's been the most help for you? I'm just curious. As you dove in, there's so much content. So much, and I'm always worried about overwhelming new bishops with, or new leaders with the content, but Yes. - Well, first the titles are so easy. Okay. Like, I think, okay, what do I wanna learn? Oh, the Law of the Lid. What does that mean? Or, Mm-Hmm.
How to have a Great Word, council. Yes. I need to learn how to do that. Like, you're doing a good job of tying these cool , which, what are you gonna title this one? Kirby Hay Born Big fan of the show. Is that what it's gonna be? ? I, - I like the best five years. The - Best five years. - Yeah. I can already hear the song in my head, but - Best five years. - That's right. - Um, uh, but I think one that has stuck with me the most is, is the law of the lid.
When you get called into a leadership position, you feel like that this has to be just me. Mm-Hmm. . Um, and it wa I've, I've been in a Bishop Rick before and been like a scout master in kind of leadership positions. But when you're a bishop and you see the whole structure of the ward and that you, you feel like, oh, it all relies on me. I need to meet with the Elders Quorum, the Relief Society presidency. Um, and then you get in your own way.
And listening to that podcast specifically the law of the lid, made me realize that by me thinking I have to do it all, I'm denying other people the opportunity to grow, to strengthen their relationship with Jesus, and to use the talents that God blessed them with. Mm-Hmm. . Um, and then it also took a lot of pressure off too, because when you, uh, for those of you who haven't listened to La la lid yet, you need to go and listen. Yeah, for sure. Such an important ones. Amazing. Yeah.
Um, it's, you're only capable of helping someone to your level of experience. So you have a lid, you have a cap on how you can help someone, but when you get outta the way and point someone to Jesus who has no limit, who has no lid, the experiences are sweeter, the growth is greater because you're not inhibiting them. Oh, yeah. That was, that's cool. I heard that at the perfect time. 'cause I start at the very beginning, you know, if the podcast, - I would've recommend that necessarily.
- And then like, okay, elder's corn president. No. Do you need to know, need to know about that? Yeah. Bishop. Bishop. Bishop. Yeah. Um, but then when I got to that, it just clicked that, and it's pointing people to Jesus, get out of the way. Mm-Hmm. , my job is to get out of the way. When someone comes in to talk about a hard thing. It's about listening and getting outta the way. And how can you be close to, to Jesus now? Mm-Hmm. . - Yeah. - And it's a special thing. Yeah.
- So take me more to, to those first few weeks of, of starting as, as Bishop. Like, where did you even begin to understand that, that role? Or where did you start to try everything? Maybe picking counselors to Yes. Getting a word council going. What comes to mind? - That's the thing. There's a podcast about that too. - . Just go down the list. Just - Go down the list. It's about, it's so important to build a powerful team. Mm-Hmm. . And we were, uh, our ward split.
And so we were creating a brand new ward. Oh, wow. So I didn't have an Elders Corps president that was just gonna already be there. Or a relief society president that had experienced that could train me. Um, and so listening to how to assemble a team, I forget the name of that, uh, podcast, but it's awesome. It's so important to get good counselors. And the first person I called when I, I found out I went to the stake president's office, and he called me and my wife.
And then that night I went home and called a former bishop of mine. Um, because he, he was so ahead of his time. He had in his Bishop Rick, this was before it was cool. He had the Relief Society president was part of the Bishop Rick would come into Bishop Rick meeting Elders Korum president was part of the Bishop. Rick would come into those in addition to ward council meetings. Mm. Um, so I called him and said, help, what do we do?
Um, and he said, you gotta get good counselors and an amazing team of your ward council. Um, and so I did. And so I called two men that are on opposite sides of beautiful men. But, uh, one is very outgoing and boisterous. The other is very pensive. And I feel like I'm kind of in the middle. Mm-Hmm. . And so, um, that Bishop counseled me that you need to have people that have different views than you do, because if everybody's saying yes in that room, then they're the wrong people.
Mm-Hmm. Yeah. Um, - And, and so when you, since the word split, was it, did they announce the Bishop Rick in, in that one meeting and then the following week you had to call the rest? Or how did that work? Is that Yeah. Wow. - So I had, and it's amazing. I feel like God was preparing me because I had these two brethren in mind for more than a year. Hmm. They just had been on my mind. And I kept on thinking, I need to serve them. I need to connect with them more.
And it wasn't until I was called that the state president said, you need to think of some counselors, and it'd be great if you know by tomorrow, - . Yeah. I love that. Yeah, I know. - Yeah. And then I said, I already know. And it was a beautiful spiritual experience. And both of them are humble men that have amazing wives.
That could be really, that was a hard thing too, because I thought, okay, I need to form, I need a relief society president, a young women's president, and both of their wives are the type that could be in leadership positions. But, but just by virtue of, I was counseled by my state president, you know, don't have, we, we live in Utah County, there are strong people Mm-Hmm. that have been bishops and state presidents give everybody a chance.
If someone's in a presidency, maybe they don't need to be a counselor. Mm-Hmm. . You know, so plan it like that. So, um, I had been thinking of these two brethren and knew immediately that they were the guys cool. And they were both humble. And when they received the call, and I think anytime in a leadership like this, you think, why me? Who am I? Mm-Hmm. . And then you step up and realize that God uses fallible people. He uses, he used Joseph Smith, he used Moses.
Um, all of them were all fallible. And when we get outta the way, that's when his glory comes out. And we realize it is God's church and we're spreading his message. Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. - And, and so did you, so you have your Bishop Rick, they announced it to the ward, and then did you try and get the full ward council staff by the next Sunday? Or how did that work? Yeah, - It's that - Quick . Yeah. So you just got in a room
and said, all right, let's get this done. Yes. So - We, we counseled together and then, um, we heard some, uh, like high energy stuff. And then I heard some pensive things, and, and we just came together and did a map. And this whole thing is gonna be, there's another podcast. - Oh, go on, go on - From leaving Saints about how, um, there God doesn't have a big whiteboard up in the - Sky. Oh yeah. The chalkboard in heaven. Vacy chuck.
- Yeah, exactly. That. He says, this is the only calling this person can have. And, um, we, uh, it, this was great 'cause I was able to counsel my, uh, primary president Relief Society president, um, Sunday School president that your counselors feel really inspired. But then when you're feeling all those little spots Mm-Hmm.
That are no less important, uh, in, in my ward, I feel like the most important calling is a primary teacher, um, because they are with that innocent sweet child and teaching them gospel truths. Um, but it's, does it work? And if it does and you don't get a super of thought, then yes, there is no chalkboard. Was it a chalkboard? In my mind, I heard it as a whiteboard. - It could be a whiteboard. I call it chalkboard heaven. You're old. I mean, you think it's heaven.
It's like so classic. It's classic. They're not. It's a chalkboard. Chalkboard, probably a - Blackboard. Yeah, Blackboard. - Definitely. Or, - Or, uh, you and I would've been the kids after school . - That's - Right. Doing the erasers, pounding them together, cleaning 'em off up. That's right. Up in heaven. . - So, um, so you get, you get started, you get award together. Is there anything unique about your, I mean, we think Utah County, it's like, man, just like cookie cutter.
Cookie cutter. Right. Is there anything unique about your Utah County ward? - Yes. It's a new neighborhood. Okay. So there are people from Texas. There are people from Colorado, there are people from California, and there were no cliques. Hmm. It's, I've lived in Utah now for five years, and this neighborhood was built five years ago. So everybody in there was fresh and new and scared. And then we got split last year. Mm. And so, again, we're fresh and new and scared.
Um, I don't think there in my ward, there's, well, there, there are problems everywhere, but there's no, it, it doesn't feel like there's ego. Hmm. Um, and there's always kindness. And, um, yeah. I, I I think it's just, it, it's a unique place. Yeah. It's a unique pocket within a unique pocket of the world of Utah County. Mm-Hmm. . Um, so I think the diversity of where people come from, um, really has helped a lot. - Yeah. And that's the dynamic.
I'm, I mean, I'm in a new neighborhood as well, and it's really interesting to see in this happen in Utah County where both my neighbors aren't members of the church, my next door neighbors. And I think, you know, Silicon Slopes are bringing in a, a different type of, uh, culture and people and, which is cool. It's kind of bring some diversity, but it isn't, it isn't your grandma's Utah County ward. Right. . Right.
- I agree. - It's true. You know, and so it's cool, - When we were thinking of moving back, it was like anywhere but Utah County because you think that it's the cookie cutter, but it isn't anymore. Right. - Yeah. It's really cool. Um, so what about those first couple weeks? Like, I'm just thinking of the, uh, Bishop out there listening who's, you know, starting a new war that had just been a split where, you know, you don't have the, that momentum, like you said, of just Yeah.
You know, let's just keep doing what we were doing. It's now like, I mean, did you have hold any special meetings or, because there wasn't Sunday school teachers that maybe the first or second week - There were so many special meetings and it was with the, the Ward Council. Mm-Hmm. . And it's, um, getting their input. Mm-Hmm. . And it was listening and realizing I get out of the way and let other people counsel. Um, there's a power in that.
I, I call it like the fellowship of the ring in the, the council. Mm-Hmm. Is everybody, they've, you've got my Axe , and you have my bow. You know, everybody brings something to the table. It's - Kind of weird that you make him dress up in Lord of the Ring. It is weird, but role of it. He's an actor. What? Expect - Exactly. That's what it's, it's funny. There, there have been, um, music is so important to me. Um, I'm a musician. I thought I was gonna be a musician.
Okay. First, um, I was in bands and stuff as a kid and in high school, and then in college. And music is such an important part of my life. So, in my Bishop's office, I have a guitar that, uh Oh, cool. Is a cheaper guitar. So in the First Ward Council, they're all sitting down and we're all a little nervous. And I pull out my guitar and kind of country fy a hymn that we unify. And I think the rest of the word council thought, okay. They were able to take a breath and like, this is serious.
This is the most important thing we could be doing, but also we should be having fun doing this. That's cool. Um, and so every word council, we, we sing a hymn. Sometimes I countrify it sometimes if, if it's depending on what needs to be discussed, I'll play it more somber. And, but yeah. It's, - It's, your personality's still present and God - Called me to do this. Yeah. And I'm a weird guy that likes music, and so why not use that? Mm-Hmm. .
- Yeah. So now, do you feel you're about a year into this? Yeah. Is that what you said? Yeah. Do you feel - A little over a year? Yeah. - The, the word now has some, some rhythm to it. Right. As far as for sure what's happening and Yes. And anything unique on a, like a typical Sunday, whether how you approach Sac meeting or the second hour, or your - Meeting. This same bishop, uh, sent me something.
I never thought I'd have a testimony of a schedule, but this same bishop said, 'cause I, how, who do you meet with? When do you meet with them? How do you work this out? Mm-Hmm. . And he sent me this schedule that is so streamlined and so perfect that has, I have a touchpoint every month with every organization. Um, and I have meetings with every young women's presidency class, uh, every class presidency, sorry, in the young women's.
Um, and all of those touch points make me feel like I, I can do my real job, which is to be with the priests and, and the oldest class of young women. Um, because I'm meeting with the elders Quorum presidency and the Relief Society presidency, and meeting with the primary. So he sent me that. And like you, you think about, oh, you need a testimony of Jesus and the gospel and the restoration and - A schedule. - And a schedule. It really is amazing how, how that works.
So, um, and like calling a good team, it's an executive secretary is so important and Mm-Hmm. , um, you, you never think you would have a testimony of a calling. Like you see the executive secretaries and you, you have an appointment with the bishop. You text the guy to get an appointment with him, but you don't realize how critical and how important that calling is to, and my executive secretary is a beautiful man who sacrifices, and he's the guy that's sitting outside the office Mm-Hmm.
and is so good at not asking questions because he knows that it's sacred time when someone comes in to repent. Um, or, or just talk about something he's diligently sitting out there Yeah. Away from his family. Not that it's, that you get anything out. You, you, I, I'm in the meeting participating in the atonement with someone and, and crying and praying and feeling that spirit. And he's sitting out there just a faithful member of the church who is critical.
Without that person out there, the person wouldn't have been able to get into the office because he's doing the schedule and everything. Um, but then just the, the humility that it takes to be an executive secretary, and that, honestly, you hear like, oh, he's a counselor in a bishop brick, or he is elders corn president. Um, those are kind of sexy calls, you know, , like, they're the cool callings.
An executive secretary, I, I think is the most important calling and award - Definitely an unsung hero who you wrote at times. - Right? Oh my goodness. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I get emotional about it. Yeah. - 'cause - He's an amazing man. - Yeah. And these are the things that, when it's, when those five, five best years go by Yeah. And then they're gone.
And like, I just think back of, it was about a year after I, I was released from leadership role callings, and I remember turning my wife and I said, I don't think I've got friends , because it, we just built this brotherhood in where it's like, you, you hang out with these remarkable people, just part of the routine, right. Hey, that's Tuesday night, or it's Sunday morning, or whatever. Like, good to see you again. Yes. You know?
And so just to appreciate 'em while you're in it is, it's crucial. - It is. Yeah. It's so crucial. Yeah. So for us, like, uh, you asked, you asked a question. I did not answer it. the question is how our Sunday looks. Um, it's the Bishop Rick meeting, and then every other week I counseled with the word council. We do word council every other week, because I do have touchpoints with every presidency Yeah. Because of this magic - Schedule. Yeah. So tell me more about the schedule.
This is just like a, like making sure you're touching base with every, every organizational leader once a month. Yes. Essentially. Right? So yeah, - You have a PPI uhhuh with every organization head. Um, and I also, this bishop said I'd love to meet with the Relief Society presidency. So then in addition to a PPI with the Relief Society President, um, the meeting right after that is with her entire presidency. And we talk about ministering and women in the ward.
Um, and because my Relief Society president is also in the Bishop Rick, she, uh, in those meetings, in the - Bishop meetings, right - In, yeah. In the Bishop Rick meetings. She, uh, is is a voice there too. So I'm hearing that voice multiple times throughout the month. Um, and then I'll mute with, uh, the elders Korum president, and then the elders Korum presidency doing the same thing.
Uh, the young women's president and then the whole young women's presidency, which sounds like a lot of meetings, but they're the most, those are my favorite parts of church. It's taking the sacrament and then meetings. And my favorite ones don't tell the rest of my ward, but it's, no one will hear this. It's with the young women. Yeah. I, I realized that, that she, my young women's president is so important because our job, we have the same job really.
Mm-Hmm. over the young women and me over the young men. And then together we're leading the whole youth. I've encouraged all of the young women's presidency, and then my counselors, um, and then all advisors. You're not just the oldest class at Young Women's Advisor. You are a youth leader. And, um, so you see a young man go over, put your arm around him, whether you're a young women's leader, a young man's leader.
We need all of these kids, all of these youths to know that it isn't just, oh, that's my leader, so they have to love me. Oh, here's the young women's leader that is coming over and sitting by me while we're at an activity and talking to me. Um, so they, they realize. And so having all those touch points with those presidencies, I think are important. And I love, so I have a Sunday that's all just young women. Okay. And that's my favorite Sunday. It's fast Sunday too.
So I come into it on fasting. So I get to meet with the young women's president, and then I meet with her presidency. Then I meet with the oldest class presidency, the middle class, and the youngest class. And then after church is, um, our ward count or our youth bishop council. So yeah. - That's - Cool. I'm so lifted on Fast Sundays. And - So that's a, in that, that broader schedule, routine of just saying, you know, the Sunday I'm focused on the young women's classes.
Right. I know that I'm, I'm just thinking in this part of this is maybe personal experience. It's so easy to feel awkward in, in those settings sometimes where I'm much rather walk in a room full of priests and be like, Hey man, you know, how about, how about them cowboys? Or like, whatever it is, right. Where sometimes you like walk in young women's and you're just the, the nice man in the corner smiling.
Like, you know, like what, what advice would you give to be to just be more approachable in those settings? Any, anything coming to mind? - It's the getting outta the way the law of the lid. Mm-Hmm. Just realize that it's not about you. It's, these are daughters of, of heavenly father and heavenly mother that are precious and amazing and have, uh, amazing insights. And let them lead. Get that, get outta the way and let them lead. I was giving a lesson on the temple. Okay.
My, our state president encouraged us in a stake, uh, conference once. He said, the only thing you can't talk about about the temple or the, the things you covenant not to disclose. Mm-Hmm. . And so he said, you need to be talking to your kids about everything. You need to pull out the temple, ceremonial robes. Let your kids see 'em. Wow. Um, yeah. And so he encouraged us to do that.
So, uh, I taught a lesson to the young women on the temple, and there's great stuff on the church's website that shows the ceremonial clothing. Mm-Hmm. . And, um, talks about ceremonial clothing and then talking about the garment. So talked about that. The young women, the oldest class, so engaged, loved it. And I taught the priests - , not so much they were - Excited, but they were just quiet.
Uhhuh , you know, the, the boys, I think for spiritual, at least in my ward, when it's spiritual, they just get quiet with the young women. They were getting more and more animated and asking questions and excited about Oh, cool. This new doctrine. But I, I, the whole point of that is, the difference with the teaching young men and teaching young women is that for me, my ward, the priests are a little bit quieter. Mm-Hmm. . We've got a big group though.
We've got 21 priests in my Oh, cool. In - My ward. Another benefit of Utah County. Right. Yeah. It is a good healthy men of youth. Right. - And they're good kids too. Yeah. Like, we've started ministering like a big push on ministering. And so we've paired up with, in conjunction with the Relief Society President and Elders Corps and me, we've figured out companionships of these older young women and older boys to, um, have a mentor type, uh, companion.
Mm-Hmm. . And to go to people that are kind of easy, that want them to be in their house. Yeah. So there was, we plotted out. And the thing is, is that's everybody in my ward, everybody in my ward wants these youth to succeed Uhhuh . And, um, that was something that we learned at a training with, um, uh, president Lund, uh, the general, general young men's president. Yeah. Um, that you have access to the bishop storehouse, which in your ward is, um, the human capital of your ward.
And so find people that can mentor. Like, it shouldn't just be the leaders. Everybody in the ward should be loving the youth, and they do. That's cool. Like, people in my ward, even though we're all new, they know the youth by name and they care about 'em and cheer them on and support them in plays and, and band and sports. It's an amazing thing. That's cool. - Yeah. Anything else as far as like, just being present and, and focusing on the young women, you know,
of classes and organization things? Anything else come to - Mind? It's, it's small little things. It's just loving them as, as daughters of Mm-Hmm. Heavenly parents. Um, but also, I make sure I, I have my phone out now because there are notes that I want to talk about. Okay. But that's it. Um, it's not because I'm like, oh, how do we get out of this ? Um, but I never look at my phone in a meeting. Mm-Hmm.
. Um, if my wife or kids need to talk to me, this is some council that my state president gave. Oh, who's an amazing man. He said, your family's always first. If your wife needs you and she calls you and you're in a meeting with me, you leave. Don't even tell me why you're leaving. You just get up and you leave. Mm-Hmm. . That's the most important thing. That's the council that I've given to my ward council as well. Anybody in leadership, your family is the most important thing.
Your spouse is the most important person in your life. Um, so I always, I keep my phone. I don't even have my phone out on my desk. Mm-Hmm. in, in the office when I'm in any meeting with anybody, because just as humans, you see it, hear a buzz or feel a buzz, you look and you disengage from that person. Right. So when I go into a meeting, I'm all in with these, these youth. - You mentioned something before we hit record as far as like getting the youth outside and, and how you go about that.
Tell me more. So, - Right before I was called as a bishop, um, I was in the, uh, stake young men's presidency and the stake presidency sat down with the stake young men's presidency to go out and train bishops and bishop Ricks on the importance of getting outside. And that happened like three months before I was called as bishop. Hmm. So we were about ready to go out and start training Bishop Ricks on the importance of getting outside. So I think we never got to train the bishop bricks.
So our, our ward, now we live it, um, because there's no scouting program. Mm-Hmm. , uh, with the church. And there's been, and then with phones and, um, just the internet being inside. The youth aren't connecting with nature. There's a spirit that happens outside. There's a spirit that happens when you're doing a hard thing. They call it kind of safe danger. Mm-Hmm. Or, or, uh, danger proximate Mm-Hmm. Like, we need to get these boys out doing that.
And so when I came in, I thought, how can we do this? And, uh, counseled with the word council and my bishop Rick, and we created a calling. We have a high adventure specialist who's amazing that does the one big hard thing in the summer. We said, we want to do a hard thing every single month. It's outside snowshoeing, repelling, overnight camping, all the things we kind of did as scouts. And so we called three brethren, one over priests, one over teachers, one over deacons.
Um, but they also work together. And they come up with every month, one activity, a combined young men activity of doing something hard. That's where's my philosophy is if at least one of the boys isn't complaining a little bit, then it's a failure . Yeah. And these guys are already outdoors guys. Mm-Hmm. . And that's the thing too, because you think that you don't want to impose anything on anybody. And this is a volunteer army that we're doing Yeah.
That we're dealing with. And so I, in the beginning was, uh, I don't wanna, I'll take care of this because I don't wanna burden you with this, but then it was listening to the podcast and let somebody else get outta the way. Let them have a relationship with Jesus. Um, that these men are amazing. And they, after a few months of this, the young women president came to me and said, we want one. We wanna do this too. Mm-Hmm. .
And I remember when I was scoutmaster, I was scoutmaster best five years. That was another five year calling. And, uh, it was at the time when my son was just starting scouting. And I have two daughters too, who came to every pack meeting and all these activities and stuff. Um, and they felt left out because, oh, we get to go do these fun things and play with fire and stuff with dad and the Cub Scouts and stuff, but not necessarily with, um, on, on the girls side.
So I knew that my daughters love camping. They want to get out and do stuff. And that's not for everybody. There are even some young men that hate that. Right. So some people say, well, young women don't like to camp, don't like to be outside. And that's, I think, false. It's the same thing with some young men. Right. But you do need to get out and do hard things. Right. So when, so we talked and I said, yes, why didn't I think of this? Because my girls wanted this when they were young.
Um, let's, there should be hard things for the young women. So then we started having the young men, high adventure specialists. We call 'em the dudes and . 'cause they're just honestly like the coolest guys. All - In favor. The dudes. - The dudes. We called him to the position of a dude. Mm-Hmm. . Um, and they're outdoor guys, mountain bikers and hikers and campers.
So they have access now to, um, we now are doing one hard thing a month starting, we started this year, both young men and young women. And it's been spectacular. Wow. More complaining too, . Just enough because there's more people. But just enough we've done, uh, snowshoe hikes where we've frozen, but at the end, the, the comradery that happens, there's something special about being outside, doing a hard thing.
We had our first overnight combined camp out, down in Goblin Valley just last weekend. I wasn't able to make it because my daughter just came home from her mission. Oh, cool. That same day. So we were picking her up at the airport. Mm-Hmm. . And that was a priority. Yeah.
But, uh, looking at the pictures, um, and hearing the, the account of what happened, um, some of these 11-year-old young women and some of these 11-year-old young men who had never been camping with their family, um, were like saying stuff to themselves like, leaders, were overhearing, I can do this. I can do this hard thing. I can, because that's kind of the nature, the culture of our ward is we are capable of doing a hard thing.
And here they are climbing over boulders in Goblin Valley and then making it to the top. And you don't get that on a phone. Right. And you don't get that in a meeting. Which meetings are beautiful and important, and Sundays are so important, that's where we learn how to live the gospel. But it's outside those meetings. Yeah. When you're out in the wilderness that you're practicing what you learned on Sunday. Yeah.
- Or you can't even get it, like in the, in the culture hall doing, you know, minute to win it games. Yes. Which are fun and sure, there they are. The time for that. But yes, by making this in your routine and having that experience, it's transformational. It - Is. It is. And now we do that every month. That's cool. And the young women, they are working towards hiking Mount Timpanogos. That's their goal. They came up with that goal together.
And so, um, we do a combined heart activity every month. All of the young men, all the young women. And now the young women are breaking off and doing training hikes for Mount Timpanogos, which is a big mountain in Utah. Mm-Hmm. . Um, and we're now to the point where I'm realizing and learned this from the podcast. You've got to include women as much as possible in all of every aspect because the input and the leadership and the keys that they have are just as important.
Um, and I learned that from my bishop that I called the first thing he said, you gotta have your relief society president in your Bishop Rick meetings. Um, so I felt like I was doing that Well, and when I called the dudes, I thought, yeah. 'cause they're outdoorsy guys. Yeah. And now I'm realizing we need to have a woman in that leadership position that, um, loves to camp, loves to hike, because guys aren't gonna think to take toilet paper to a camp out, you know,
- , that's what leaves are for. Right. - , that's what leaves are for. Yeah. Um, but it's so amazing. Uh, that's awesome seeing these women step up and have this, these input. And also, I, I feel like I'm burdening my young women's presidency because the young men's presidency is the bishop and his counselors, but we kind of have a shadow young men's presidency as well. Right. Right. We have advisors that are in charge of activities and help with lessons.
Um, and then we also now have these three dudes that, um, take care of these hard activities Yeah. That always have a spiritual aspect to it and something difficult. And then I'm thinking, I need to alleviate the burden of my young women's presidency because they're doing the Sunday, they're doing the activities, and now we're expecting them to be in those same meetings with the dudes to plan these hard activities. And so Yeah. And I think that's next on my agenda.
- One dynamic that you talked about before, but you're highlighting, uh, indirectly here, is that a lot of these discussions come out as you're touching base with them once a month. Yes. That you're, you're engaging with them and, and inviting them into your, your Bishop Rick meetings and things like Right. These concerns are coming to the surface, then you can approach them or handle 'em, or, - Right.
Had I not had those, all those touch points, I would not have known that the young women wanted to do something like this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. - That's awesome. Um, anything else with the, the youth we haven't touched on that be worth mentioning or, - I, so I have interviews with the youth every week, whether it's an annual interview or semi-annual for the older classes. And I was surprised at how many of them, when I'm asking just about, and, and I learned this from , an episode
of the show. I'll take all - The questions, - Keep it going. Questions. Yeah. It's all you Kurt , um, probing questions like, whoa, if the s you Savior we're here right now, what would you want to ask him? What would you want to tell him? Hmm. I'm a representative right now, and let's figure it out. When, when I'm asking questions like, how are you bringing the spirit into your home? How is it when you praise a family? I was surprised at how many kids were saying, oh, we don't pray as a family.
Hmm. And I thought that's a problem. Mm-Hmm. . You need to be praying daily as a family. That's the first fence. There's another podcast with John Hilton Oh yeah. About fence laws. Yeah. About the fence laws. uhhuh . That's a fence law uhhuh that you have to Well, it's also a doctrine law. Yeah, yeah. Too, I think. But it's both like you protect your family with that offensive of prayer.
Um, and then heard this went to this training with President Lund that we need to teach these kids, get these kids. So I came back with all of these ideas thinking, okay, how can we get these kids involved more? How can we, um, have them participating more? And then I realized, uh, the whole purpose of the church now is it's home centered and church supported. And so I thought, how do we solve this problem of families not praying together?
And so, because I think it's affecting these youth, they need to have that strength and that power and that fence around them of daily family prayer. So went to my amazing team, the Ward Council. Amazing counselors. Um, and that's another thing, like my executive secretary, when he's in all these meetings, I'm asking him for opinions too. Mm-Hmm. . Because when you're in that ward council, you're all equals whether you're an ex executive secretary or a ward clerk, I wanna hear everybody's ideas.
And we came up with, I said, here's the dilemma. I want everybody to pray. And, uh, I want to come up with a bunch of programs to get these kids to encourage their families to pray. I refer to it in my word Council knows this. I like to incept our members. If you've seen the movie Inception Oh, . Where make them think that they came up with the idea. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it's always trying to, that's what we could call this one. Okay. How to incept your Ward. . There we go. Nice.
Um, and it was, let's just set a challenge that this is an expectation. So it just started two weeks ago. Um, the, in all of the classes, 15 minutes was taken on. Um, our ward is gonna focus on daily family prayer for this month. And then in two weeks when we meet again in Elders Quorum Relief Society and young men, young women, we're gonna take 15 minutes to report on that. Like, what miracles did we see?
Um, and rather than trying to, um, do too much, like how can we get these kids to an activity where we teach 'em to pray, it should be taught in the home. Yeah. And that's the same thing with the Temple lesson that I am teaching to the oldest classes, um, the week before, I send out a text to all the parents and say, this is what we're gonna be learning. Teach them everything about the temple so that they come and I'm just supporting you. Mm-Hmm. and your testimony of the temple.
Um, and the goal is to eventually get to the point, um, down the road, our monthly challenge will be, um, how to have a, a organic gospel conversations as frequently as possible in your home. And so we came up with steps. How do we, I get it sounds like we were doing easy drugs first and then we'll get to the harder drugs Yeah. Later. But it's, uh, and we felt like the first thing was prayer.
If families are praying together, then we can get to this step of having organic gospel centered conversations. Mm-Hmm. god-centered, Jesus-centered conversations at home. We felt like it might be too hard to jump right into that. 'cause some families it's hard. Yeah. And we're teaching the youth that, um, it may not be ideal for your family right now, but your family that you have in the future, you should be praying daily. So next month it will be daily family scripture study.
So pair that with your daily family prayer. And that was one of the greatest word councils. Everybody voicing their opinion and then someone concerned, how do we make sure that the primary hears about this? And then pri then we come up with ideas on how and primary's taking it to a whole other level where every week they're getting up and bearing a testimony on this is what our family did in family prayer.
Hmm. And rather than, I, I feel like it's when you treat not creating new programs, but like you're a Pinterest board that because you go to Pinterest to figure out, oh, how can I ask someone, someone to prom, oh, here's some great ideas. And then you make it your own. Yeah. Um, I feel like that's what this word council does really well is like, well, we, not everybody is a cookie cutter and not everybody wants to kneel down and feels comfortable praying out loud as a family.
So how do we do this? Um, and it's presenting them a Pinterest board of here's what this family does, here's what this family does, here's what my family does. Choose what works for your family and, um, make it your own. Yeah. So, - Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. And I love this concept of, um, and we've talked about on other episodes about creating a movement in, in your ward Yes.
Where so many leaders feel this pressure of like, I need a vision and like, maybe we'll have a scripture that that, uh, guides us for the next five years. But in reality, it's like, this may be a three month sort of - Yes. Like - We're having a prayer in the home movement. Everybody's on board. What are you doing? Well, this is what we're doing. Like there's no, you know, there's no checklist or Right way to, wrong way to do it. Just do something. Just do it and make a, a prayerful home.
And then that culture begins to stimulate the ward. Right. - That's what I love too, is building a culture with a new ward and a new neighborhood. Yeah. It's what does, what do we want this ward to be known for the next 20 years, 30 years? Mm-Hmm. and the Ward Council in Bishop Rick is just faithful members of the church that don't judge, that are kind, that lift each other. And how are we gonna do that? That's a, uh, every month in the summer have a, uh, 4th of July picnic.
Mm-Hmm. . Um, and it's, it's fun creating that culture and, and realizing how we can support the families. Um, yeah. But it's, it is fun creating the culture - Of what, and I really appreciate this inception idea of, of, 'cause it's so easy from a ward leadership standpoint to say like, well, this is what we're gonna do. You know, our Wednesday night activities gonna be focused on prayer, or let's let's make an emphasis on our Sunday classes.
But instead of saying, well, how can we take this to the homes? Yes. And say, let's start it there. And once they show up here, you know, there's that momentum there or this, you know, this isn't a brand new concept to them. Yeah. Right.
- So, um, and one thing I love, uh, and I think it's just my personality that I, I'm an open book and when I'm in interviews with the youth or when I'm teaching the priests or the, the oldest class of young women, um, I let 'em know, like, we're all scared of you , you know, your youth and we're trying, um, especially if you're an oldest kid, you're like that first pancake on the grill that it still is edible, but your parents we're still trying to figure it out.
And you might be a little burnt, but we're still trying to figure it out. Yeah. So be forgiving of your parents. And that's, that's one thing that I'm trying to let the ward members see, and especially the youth, that we're not perfect human beings and we're still trying to figure it out and we're still working on our own testimonies. So if, how does, how does the spirit look, taste, feel, smell to you? That's gonna be different than the, than the other person.
Mm-Hmm. , I think letting people behind the scenes and seeing that we're all just trying to move forward. It, it's, it was such an interesting thing. 'cause my whole life you grow up and it's like, oh, well Bishop says Bishop wants us to do this. Or Bishop so and so the Bishop challenge. Right. Bishop Challenge. And it's like, yes, I'm gonna step up to it. Then all of a sudden I'm the guy saying that.
And I, there have been a couple of times where I've said, oh, I think it'd be good if we did X. And then I hear it being spoken in the hall. Bishop says, we need to do this. And I'm like, I need to be careful with what I say because, because I, I grew up that way. Yeah. And I still feel that way that there's a, a inspiration that the bishop receives for the whole ward.
That was one thing too that started to jump back to being called, when I heard in, in that general conference that the bishop is the young men's president. I thought when I got called, yes. It's just gonna be the young men. But that's not the case. . Yeah. You're still dealing with the whole ward. - Right? Yeah. If an elder needs to come and Yes. And, and get some repentance or, or start on that path, he comes to you. Right. Even though you're primarily focused on the, on the youth. Right.
- Exactly. And, um, or, or marriage counseling or what, whatever it is, there's still that Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . And then every week I get a financial report that I have to look over and, um, it isn't just the youth. Right. But it, it, what's beautiful about the, the new focus of the church is that I feel that that's my priority. So I have my first assistant come with me on my weekly visits to families. And, um, I I, I love the feeling that we are training up these youth.
And when you look at it, we only have 'em for six years and then they're out in the big bad world. Mm-Hmm. . And so I think that's how we've talked as leaders of the youth, that we have 'em for such a short period of time and we are their only experience with a bishop Rick. Really? Um, before they're out in a bishop Rick of their own Mm-Hmm. . And they're dealing with other people. So why not be the best Bishop Rick or the best youth leaders so that they have that example.
Um, but it's, it makes the time precious. Yeah. Every activity is precious because it's a short period of time that you have these youth and then they have to be grown up. Right. They go on missions and they come home from missions and Yeah. - And then they're off. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I wanna ask you real quick about the, the outdoor dudes . Yeah. Do you call them as like advisors? So are they present in the core meetings and things on Sunday?
- When I let them know, I said, I want you at every activity, whether you're in charge of it or not. I want these boys to have one more touch point of a good example of what a man should be. Mm-Hmm. a faithful disciple of Jesus Christ. A cool dude. Mm-Hmm. , um, a guy that's successful in his career. I want these boys to see that and to want to emulate that. Mm-Hmm. . So they come to, so the guy that's over priest, he's in, he teaches too. Mm-Hmm. , I think.
- And you have other advisors, I assume? - Other advisors. Yeah. Yeah. So for priests, 'cause I have so many priests, I have three, there are four of us in the quorum. Mm-Hmm. , uh, four adult men. There's me, um, uh, an advisor, another advisor, and then this specialist. And I think for the record keeping, so he has access to certain things. You have to type in something. Right. Calling you, I think he's a specialist, a priest, corn specialist. - Dude. Wasn't on the dropdown - Menu, dude.
Is not You go down. Where's the dude on this? - Not yet. Anyways. We'll see how we'll - Talk to hq. - That's right. And they'll - Can you add the dudes to it? Um, and then I guess it'll be duets once we That's right. - Yeah. - That's right. - And I just love that they're, but their primary focus, they may, they'll show up on Sunday, they may teach here and there, but the primary focus is like, next month, what are we doing for our outdoor - Yeah. - Thing. Right. . Yeah.
- So that's cool. And so this month it was our first combined camp out. Oh, cool. And it was hugely successful next month. Um, I think it's a big mountain biking expedition. Mm-Hmm. . And it's so fun. Yeah. I love to be outdoors. Anyways, that's one of the reasons why we moved to Utah is to be outdoors. So I'm already partial to that. Yeah. So when the stake presidency was telling us that it rang true, because, uh, with my kids, we go camping every summer.
We we're backpacking a lot and we feel the spirit so strong outside. Yeah. And so I already had a testimony of it. Yeah. So I was excited to implement it. - Well, and I, and I have, I, but I remember as a youth, I hated scouting . I hated, you know, the only thing that kept me going, my mom said, if you get your eagle right, you don't have to go on any more camphouse. I'm like, I'm getting my eagle. Right.
But now in hindsight, I'm like, I actually like being outdoors and, and just sort of that model of getting me doing those things. Yes. That I'm not afraid to try things outdoor or go mountain biking or do these things. And it's - Blessing is that the, the whole, uh, reason behind it that the state presidency was telling us is that there are more kids coming back home from their missions. Mm-Hmm. Because they haven't had to do hard things. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's the ultimate goal Yes.
Is to get them to be competent, whether they go on a mission or not to be competent adults, that they can look back and say, I scaled that boulder. Mm-Hmm. And maybe they don't think specifically of that, but they have that feeling. And so that's the real Yeah. That's cool. But we make it look like it's a fun, hard thing when the real goal is we we're incepting these kids to, um, be able to do hard things as a missionary and then as an adult. - Yeah. That's awesome. Love it.
Anything else on your notes, uh, that when you make sure we cover before we wrap up? ? . Oh, we're - Already done, Kurt. No. - Hey, we can go another hour. I don't want to. Um, - Oh, there's so many good things. Listen to other episodes of this show. Well, I don't want to claim anything like, pretend like, oh, yeah. I came up with the law of the lid. I came up with fences. Uh, there's an office episode where he quotes Wayne Wayne Gretzky, you know? Oh, yeah, yeah.
- Like go where the puck is or something. - Yeah. Yeah. And then Michael Scott, Wayne Gretzky. Yeah. . That's right. Um, I think it's important, this was something that I realized, uh, early on, is that spiritual trust fall is that you have to be prepared in leadership, reading your scriptures every single day.
The same bishop that I called once, once I was called, um, he, um, said that you're just one day away from leaving the church one day away from not saying a prayer one day away from not reading your scriptures one day away from not thanking God for some miracle. Um, and that's the truth. It really is that simple, because the next day it's easier to not do that.
Hmm. Um, so, uh, in, in these meetings with people, it's, it's being prepared, reading scriptures, knowing who the person is that's coming into you is so important. Um, whether it's just a regular youth interview or a repentance issue, it's, um, knowing who this person is and filling. There's a Sunday school president that taught me this. Um, you fill your pockets when you're gonna teach a lesson. But I think it's the same thing when you're talking with anybody.
You prepare two hours worth of material when you're gonna teach a lesson. Mm-Hmm. . And you put 'em in your pockets. Liter, uh, figuratively. Mm-Hmm. sometimes literally you pull out a little piece of paper for someone to read, but you just, that allows you to follow the spirit then. So if your pockets are filled, that's, um, part of inspiration is preparation.
Mm-Hmm. . And so you're already prepared so that when you're talking with someone, you can reach into your pocket because you were prepared. You're reading your scriptures every day. You're praying every day. You're lifting your spouse every day. You're finding miracles that God is performing in your life every single day. Then you can get out of the way and let the spirit just be there. Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. Because you'll be inspired from your preparation when you're sitting across from someone.
And honestly, and maybe this is sacrilegious, but the Leading Saints podcast is something that you should fill your pockets with. Yeah. Um, because there's so much insight that, that I've learned from it that I find myself quoting like, oh, you know what you need to do, you need to get out of the way. , this is what's called the Law of the Lid - As a concept. Uh, I came up with, uh, , I - Came up with this. Uh, - Yeah. Yeah. And that's awesome.
And I think there's a dynamic of, of self-care going on there, because as a, as a leader, you can drain yourself dry. Yes. Of like, you don't have anything else to give. And so you have to really take that time to go back to the Well, yes. And, and re refuel - And I think including your family in leadership too. Hmm. This was, again, my stick president is such a beautiful man in his insight that he said, your family's the most important thing. And I think this is different.
I grew up in the eighties where I feel like the church was maybe a little more heavy handed and closed door, - And I didn't - Know, I dunno if you Yeah. Um, and you see bishops got worn out and there's a thing called bishop fatigue. Mm-Hmm. . There's a psychiatrist in my ward who was concerned about me, and he said, there's a thing called bishop fatigue. Oh, wow. Be careful of that. Don't let that get you. You'll come out of this, um, drained and it'll be hard and you shouldn't do that.
My stake president, when he, he counseled me, he said, um, involve your family in everything. When you feel, when you're working with someone using the atonement, you come home and you talk about that. Mm-Hmm. don't use names, they don't need to know who you're meeting with, but you have a spiritual experience with someone. You come and involve your family because they are sacrificing too.
Yeah. You being gone for eight hours on Sunday, a few hours on Tuesday, and then all night Wednesday and then throughout the week, don't leave them out. Mm-Hmm. include them in everything. And that would be my advice to every leader. When you're working with someone, if you have a spiritual experience, don't keep that to yourself. Yeah. Remember that it's home centered. You're a leader for the church.
You gotta come back home and teach your kids, your spouse, um, anybody that comes into your home, teach them what you've learned, what you've felt. Mm-Hmm. . Otherwise they feel ostracized, they feel resentful. And I think I have friends whose parents were bishop in or relief Saudi presidents, and they're resentful to the church. Yeah. Because you took my mom away. You took my dad away. Yeah. And I needed him at my basketball game. Or he would come home and he's closed off.
He wouldn't talk about Mm-Hmm. talk, what happened? And those are my favorite part of every Sunday. That's cool. I come home, that's such great advice. And I cry with my wife, not of sadness, but of joy and say, and with my daughter, who's the only one home now. Mm-Hmm. . Then when my older kids come home for Sunday dinner, I talk about it. It's kind of cathartic. Um, but it also brings us together to see that God is good and his gospel is amazing.
And here we are being able to participate in, in this aspect of the work. The more you share, the stronger the spirit is, the stronger your family is. So that's probably the greatest advice I got from my state president, was Yeah, that's really helpful. Really good. Include them, don't keep it to yourself. - Awesome. Well, before we wrap up, is there any, I know you have the, the making good, uh, show on, on BYU TV that you do.
Yes. Anything else that you wanna plug or, oh, - Always plug in something. Um, listen to, uh, saints. - Oh yeah. You're the, you're the voice - History of the church. Um, that's fun. I don't gain anything from that other than I'm such a nerd for the church. Yeah. I love everything about the church. I love that. I love Jesus Christ. But I also love the history. I love everything about it. Um, I have a film coming out later this year called Faith of Angels. Yeah, I've seen it. Yes.
- Oh, and it is so good. It's - Powerful and beautiful. Yeah. Uh, amazing experience doing that. Um, and then always making films and cool future TV shows. So I hope - You keep popping up in different, uh, different places on the screen. So, - Kurt, thank you so much. Yeah. This was great. This is like a dream come true. Well, - Hey, we're, we're coming back at the end of this five years and being like, all, see, okay, what happened? You'll, you'll be tattered and scarred anyways.
Uh, last question I have for you. As you reflect on your time as a leader, how has being a leader helped you become a better follower of Jesus Christ? - Getting out of the way when you're a leader, you realize that Jesus uses, Jesus uses broken things. And the more broken you are, the stronger you are. Um, and when you realize that he calls someone like me to be a leader, um, it's humbling. And it's made me realize I have to rely on him. And nothing else matters.
But being a disciple of Jesus Christ, I tell my priests that, and being priests, they say, so then we don't need to go to school anymore. Bishop . I go, yeah, that's it, . But it is nothing else matters than being a disciple of Jesus Christ. And being in this position has helped me realize that nothing else matters. - And that concludes this how I lead interview.
I hope you enjoyed it. And, uh, I would ask you, could you take a minute and drop this link in an email, on social media, in a text, wherever it makes the most sense, and share it with somebody who could relate to this, this experience. And this is how we develop as leaders, just hearing what the other guy's doing, trying some things out, testing, adjusting for your area. And, uh, that's, that's where great leadership discover, right?
So we would love to have you, uh, share this with, uh, somebody in this calling or a related calling, and that would be great. And also, if you know somebody, uh, any type of leader who would be a fantastic guest on the How I lead segment, uh, reach out to us. Go to leading scenes.org/contact. Maybe send this in individual an email letting them know that you're going to be suggesting their name for this interview. We'll reach out to them and, uh, see if we can line 'em up.
So again, go to leading saints.org/contact. And there you can submit all the information and let us know, and maybe they will be on a feature how I lead Segment on the Leading Saints podcast. And remember to get on the email newsletter list, simply go to leading saints.org/fourteen. - It came as a result of the position of leadership, which was imposed upon us by the God of Heaven, who brought forth a restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And when the Declaration was made concerning, the only, only true and living church upon the face of the Earth, we were immediately put in a position of loneliness. The loneliness of leadership from which we cannot shrink nor run away. And to which we must face up with boldness and courage and ability.