Strengthening Your Goal Setting | An Interview with Skye Fagrell

- - Have you ever tried to help youth with their mental health? Wowza. That's a tricky road to travel. I have to tell you about an inspiring presentation we recorded with a one and only Jody Moore. Yes. That life coaching Jody Moore. A few years ago, she recorded a fantastic presentation covering topics like normalizing tough feelings with youth, a more positive understanding of stress, how to minimize shame, and mastering the skillset of empathy and better understanding anxiety.

I want you to see this presentation as soon as you finish this podcast episode. You can go to leading saints.org/fourteen, and this will get you access to the entire video library at no cost for 14 days. Jodi's presentation is in the Mentally Healthy Saints Library, and you'll be a better leader or parent when you finish it. Again, go to leading saints.org/fourteen or check out the show notes for the link.

The following episode is a throwback episode one that was published previously and was extremely popular to see the details of when this was originally published. See the show notes. Enjoy this throwback episode. My name is Kurt Frankham, your host. Now, if you're new to Leading Saints, you should know what this is all about, because a close friend probably sent you an email and said, Hey, you gotta listen to this podcast or this episode. And you're like, what is this Leading saints?

Well, let me tell you what it is. We are a nonprofit organization dedicated, helping latter day saints be better prepared to lead, and we do that variety of ways. One of those being this podcast. We're over 3 million downloads and, uh, climbing, and it's fun to see the growth that's happening. We also have a [email protected] where you can find thousands of articles all related to leadership. We do live events, virtual summits. There's a lot out there. So jump in the water's warm.

Now, if you're at the gym right now listening to this podcast, I want you to go pat somebody on the back or give 'em a, a a point at him and say, keep, keep going, brother. You're, you can do it. You can accomplish your goals. And we're gonna talk about goals in this episode with Sky Grail. He is from the Gilbert, Arizona area. Uh, queen Creek, I believe is the suburb of Gilbert, if that's right term for it. And, uh, he teaches seminary down there. Also a bishop at the time of this recording.

And, uh, he's written a book called More Fit for the Kingdom, which is available on Amazon. The subtitle is Gaining the Spiritual Strength. The Savior emphasized by following the training program he utilized. Of course, as my podcast interviews go, sometimes they go all over the place. And I saw a wormhole early on in this episode, and so I jumped in it.

And we talk about as far as this concept of, of striving, um, of, of doing in the church behaviors and how to keep that separated from the grace of Christ and not get stuck in the trap of trying to earn grace or trying to earn salvation. 'cause obviously that work is done thanks to our savior, but still there's this effort component, right? I love the quote, which I mentioned later in the, in the interview, is from President Nelson.

The Lord loves effort, and we have these remarkable programs like the New Youth Program with these four quadrants. We're setting goals, we're doing, and there's a sanctifying component with it. We've received the grace of Christ. Now what can we become through our actions of, uh, through sanctification, right? Which involves setting goals. And as Sky does a remarkable job of, uh, give introducing a, a model that, uh, you one could use to set some goals.

And we talk about it in the context of youth and personal goals and spiritual goals, right? 'cause again, we don't wanna get stuck in the trap of, uh, trying to earn grace or earn salvation. But how do we set goals appropriately that we're gonna see progress, grace to grace, progress, and, uh, it goes through it. Good episode. Hopefully, hopefully it'll inspire those that are setting goals, uh, and inspire those who aren't setting goals to set goals with a new model.

So here is my interview with Skye for Grail. How are you, Skye? - I'm doing great, Kurt. Thank you. - Awesome. Now you are in Queen Creek, Arizona, which is in the Gilbert area, is that right? You - Got it. We're just outside Gilbert, close to Mesa, about an hour away from Phoenix, 45 minutes an hour away from Phoenix, if you're familiar with that. - Nice. And and are you originally from Arizona area? - No. Um, my wife grew up in Tempe and, uh, so that, that's what brought us here.

But I grew up, uh, in the Bay Area, just about 45 minutes south of San Francisco in a town called Los Gatiss, just outside of San Jose. - Nice. And then how did you end up in, uh, in Arizona? - So my wife and I met at BYU and, uh, we were studying there. We had a food science nutrition class together. And uh, that's where, that's where the action, the romance started happening, I guess Kurt, you could say . And, uh, we also happened to be in the same ward at the same time.

So our paths crossed in a spring, and, uh, by the next spring we had started dating. And, uh, so we had, we'd known each other for a year, kind of a lengthy courtship by BYU standards before we even started dating. Dated for six months. And I was, uh, graduating. I had my degree in visual arts. I had a minor in coaching and teaching. And I was also taking the, the seminary teaching program there, pre-service, what they call it.

And they kinda work it so that when you graduate, you can, they wanna know where you want to teach, they're really good about placing you there. And, and I had put on my wishlist if I could be anywhere in the world, they ask you that question. And I said, I'd like to be in Tempe, Arizona, and like, you know, a jaw drop, you know? 'cause no one requests to be in Arizona. Everyone wants to be in Utah or Idaho.

Why do you wanna be in Arizona? I said, this is where my wife's family is, and just put me on the list. Tempe, Arizona. There's a little one man seminary there. I'd love to teach it. Well, I got hired to teach an American Fork and was there a couple years. And then, uh, fortunately for us, the guy that was in at that assignment, he got another assignment and, and, uh, my name came up on a list. And, and so I was brought down to Arizona. I taught at that little one man for nine years.

And, uh, and then since then I've had a couple other assignments, but it's been great. Been able to teach a few of my, uh, in-laws, Brother-in-Laws and Sister-in-laws. And, and it's been, it's been awesome. - Nice. So when did the desire to be a seminary teacher start? - You know, I think like a lot of missionaries, it probably started there growing up where I did in, uh, in California.

Um, I didn't even know that there was such a thing as release time seminary at my, my high school, our early morning class, I could have these numbers wrong, but I, I think we maybe had about a dozen 10 to 12 kids. And that was the entire seminary program we met in the church building. And there was just, uh, you know, a few of us at, at the high school that I was at that, uh, you know, i i that I grew up with. They were my grade level.

And so you ask my seminary teachers today, Kurt, of who they thought from the class or if, hey, did you think Sky Rell was gonna become a seminary teacher? I would've been the last one on that list that they would've, yeah, , my mom got me up every morning, bless her heart. She had a cup of hot chocolate there and shook me outta bed. And, and one of the other kids' parents carpooled me over there. And I, I put my hood over my head and laid on that desk.

And, uh, I, I got my four years in and, uh, I learned to really love and respect my teachers, but I'm sure they thought, you know, I was, I was studying Lehigh's Dream, if you know what I mean, most of the time in that class. And, uh, but when I, when I got on a mission came back, that that all changed when I was out there, people were talking about this. I knew I liked teaching, I loved it.

I, I liked explaining gospel concepts and principles, and, and then, so when I got to BYUI, I looked into the program and, and there it was. And so my last, uh, four semesters at BYUI was taking those classes and it just worked out for, for me and Jackie to get hired. - Nice. And, uh, so today you teach at, uh, like at a, by a local high school in a seminary, uh, there, - Yeah, exactly.

It's a release time, uh, seminary at, uh, it's Higley High School, and, uh, we have great faculty there, three of us full time and, and a good number of students and just love it. - Yeah. Nice. And so, uh, along with your, uh, time as a seminary teacher is your day job, you're also also a, a bishop on the weekends and Yes. Even during the week, right? . Yeah. So, uh, - And that's, that's been great.

I have a lot of the, a lot of the kids in my steak and ward, I, I get to teach seminary too as well. And so I used to think that might be too much Brother Rell. And, and you ask them, maybe it is, I don't know. But I've I really loved it. And I, I actually have two of my, my daughters at the seminary I teach at now, so it's a kind of unique thing to get to meet her friends and or their friends and, and, uh, and see them in class. And so that's been really cool.

- Awesome. Now, and you've also, uh, written a book called More Fit for the Kingdom Gain, the Spiritual Strength, the Savior emphasized by following the training program he utilized. What, how, where did the, in inception of this idea of this book come? - I appreciate you asking that. It started actually back at BYU. My, my major, well my minor at the time, it ended up being, was, uh, coaching and teaching physical education.

And so I'm in these classes with, with the great, with great athletes and great teachers there at BYU. And nearly every single class had some sort of teaching about how measurable fitness was or how important, and like they could track it. And, and we were talking about how to compute body fat percentages. And if you do this many exercises with this frequency at this duration, you can gain strength very quantifiable, right?

And, and, and, you know, you talk about someone today, dieting, well, hey, let's limit calorie, uh, intake and increase calorie output where we're, you know, exercising and it's very quantifiable. And then I'd walk up campus to my, to the religion department and be in these, these last four semesters of my, of my college experience taking the seminary teaching classes.

And I was experiencing the exact opposite thing where when we're talking about spiritual strength, so many had question marks rather than exclamation points. It was, how do we gain spiritual strength? And we know we can, and, and here are some basic ideas, but it seems so much more elusive than the other department where I was studying these very tried and true physical fitness principles.

And the thought I had then, I was just kind of sitting there looking back and forth at my homework going, I think this principle would work really good in this environment. Hmm. And so the idea that if, if something works well in the weight room, it's gonna work well in the family room as well, kind of was hatched in my mind where Gotcha.

And, and so I just started listing principles and I, I really feel all of them do occur, but I started listing down principles that I felt had the most or most easily transferable from the weight room to the family room and, you know, or, or to the congregation. And so I really tried to employ these in my life.

I still love fitness and, and my family and faith and, and these things I have just, I have a hard time studying fitness and not seeing, oh, this would be so great in my family, or, oh, this would be my ward. The young men would love this. Or I think this would be great if the Relief Society tried this. And, and so it's really been a part of my, my leadership in, in all those areas, my, my family and, and my ministry.

- So when you started sort of connecting these two worlds, maybe give us an example of different experiments or, or thoughts or principles that you tried to apply in the, in the spiritual arena that were more dominant in the, the physical fitness arena. - Sure. There's an old story, Kurt, of this semi mythical figure. Maybe he actually had a birth certificate somewhere, but most people don't believe the story's true, but the principle's great. So I, I'm gonna share it with that, uh, premise.

But the guy's name is Milo of Croton, and in, in lore, he was a great wrestler long time ago. Okay? And the premise is he got his strength by his dad, bought him a, a calf when he was young, and he'd said, Milo, I want you to go pick up the calf, carry him to the top of the hill and back down. So Milo was young, the calf was young, it was an easy task.

I mean, it's difficult still. It was a long walk and up down a hill, but he could manage the load, but each day the, the calf would grow and so would Milo and he'd go up and down this hill. But the, the load increase for Milo was so incremental. He hardly recognized the increase in weight. And so Milo got stronger and stronger carrying this calf, which turned into a cow until he just had developed this crazy amount of strength. You know, li lifting a cow over his shoulders up and down hills.

That principle is basically is called now the overload principle. And it's pretty much the basis of all physical fitness strength, gaining routines. You just add an incremental amount of weight to the bar, and before long you're going from bench plusing that 185 pounds to 300 pounds Hmm. Of risk sustained period of time.

Well, you take that principle to, you know, kinda like what Elder Bednar talks about, where it's, it's not the absence of a load, but sometimes the load is what gives us traction to move forward. Mm-Hmm. . And so, and sometimes in the spiritual realm will, that's something that I've, I've tried to incorporate in my ministry is, you know, what, how are you, what's your spiritual load right now? What, what kind of things are you carrying?

And it's not so much that we need to add more to it, 'cause that just gives us all, we all feel nervous about it and we feel pressure about it, but maybe it's increasing the frequency with which we carry a load or the intensity. I only have 10 minutes to study the scriptures. Great. What are you looking for in that time? And so, you know, manipulating a few variables in that load that we're carrying might help give us the traction we need to move forward.

And so the overload principle is just one of those that's really helped me. Whether it's, uh, and again, I try to do it in most guilt-free way, Kurt, because we, it's certainly, the gospel isn't about just feeling like I have to do more and more and more sometimes that that load we have to get is I need to rely more on the atonement and gain more access to his grace. And I haven't been putting that on my bar. I I've been trying to carry this all by myself.

So balancing the, the principles of it, it's, you're not weak because your efforts, it may be that you're not asking the coach to spot you a little bit more on the bench and on these other spiritual exercises that we do. - Yeah. And so is it, uh, so the principal doesn't necessarily see how much you can spiritually bench press, uh, over time, but to just be aware of the load and how you're interacting with the load rather than just being, just doing it all yourself, right? Yeah.

- Correct. I mean, in that story, I think that Elder Bednar originally shared the idea was the guy got stuck in the snow. Mm-Hmm. . And he just kept trying to spin his wheels to get out. And Elder Bednar said it wasn't until he went out and cut down the, the firewood that he had originally set out to get, and he loaded it in the, that he got enough traction to move forward.

And, and so that's just one principle where I think we can find a lot in incremental growth, just adding a little bit to what we're trying to do in life. And again, when I say adding Kurt, I, I wanna be very careful. Yeah. It doesn't always mean I'm going to the temple once a month. I need to go four times all I'm reading 10 pages I need to read.

That's, I would say the last part, there's, there's probably time for us to add more, but that's not the main emphasis of what I think how the overload principle applies to spirituality and strength there. Yeah, - Yeah.

For sure. And I, and I appreciate just sort of, you sort of pointing out the, the, uh, the difficulty there of, of rec re reconciling that, because it's like, yeah, we're not looking to overwhelm people, but it's important to know that like, that there's a process of improvement going on. Right. And that's what you're trying to engage with. Where, and I would imagine a lot of times as leaders, we sort of want to go into a place and remove their load, right?

And say, well, let, let's, uh, get the release sight involved. Let's get your ministering brothers involved and, and let's remove this load from you so that, uh, you, you're not weighed down so much, but instead you're approaching the load, respecting the load, and then Yeah. Going from there. Right.

- You know, a good example of what you're talking about is on the, the temple recommend questions, and especially on the recently updated ones where the word strive is incorporated more frequently, um, to what we're asking members.

And, and, and I think a lot of bishops will tell you this, you get to the end of the, the questions and the final catchall question is to the effect, you know, do you consider yourself worthy to participate in so often a member or a young man or young woman, uh, uh, or, uh, you know, the corollary, they get to the end there and they feel like there's some additional question that they need to answer.

Well, I just don't know if I Well, are, you are, and I just always go back to the question that's been emphasized there. Are you striving to keep these covenants? Are you, you know, there's some minimum requirements there that we're not trying to water down, but the perfection requirement that so many feel is just absent. It's not part of the questions. And so striving is, is the key. It's not so much the pace. It's not so much where you are on the path.

And, and even taking a pause on the path, Kurt, that's the thing a lot of our members don't understand, is so crucial to our progression for a long time, I think, and I, and I think we can find teachings about it, you know, we're this church about steady progression and steadfastness and diligence, but the idea of, of having a hand on, on the rod of iron, but taking a pause was kind of absent for, from our dialogue for a long time. I think we're getting more comfortable with it now. Yeah.

But you, you know, marathon runners do this all the time. They're well, really well-trained highly, you know, skilled athletes and, but they find an aid station, they stop. And along these courses, there are, there's also medics and there's masseuses and there's, there's people that are stretching. They're, they're pausing so that they can progress. Mm-Hmm. . And so that's another important physical fitness principle that applies to spirituality.

Sometimes people just have gotten burnt out and they think, 'cause we've, we've had this idea of if I'm not moving forward, I I'm moving backward. Well, a pause is a productive time to consider and regroup and say, Hey, where am I at? How how's my pace? What am I, what do I wanna readjust? Do I need some, some more hydration, some more nutrition spiritually speaking, and then set out again on that Yeah. Readjustment on it.

- No, I, I love this focus on the word strive and that, you know, highlighting that it's more dominant in the, uh, new temple recommend questions. Um, and keeping the focus on the, on the striving, rather than did you do it? Or the perfection or, you know, the, the, the behaviors involved there. And, and brings to mind the recent quote by President Nelson of the Lord loves effort. Yes. You know, and, and we can, you can hear that and just sort misinterpret it.

Like, okay, the Lord only loves me if I show effort on a certain level, doing the right things every day without a mistake. But no, that's not what he's saying. said, the Lord loves effort. Like there is, there's purpose in our striving. And sometimes we can get stuck on the, on the gray side of things and think like, well, no, you know, we're saved.

You know, you know, some of our, uh, you know, evangelical brethren sort of get, get stuck in this mode of just like, you know, it doesn't put, put striving aside, put effort aside. But again, there's a purpose in this striving be there's a sanctifying purpose. We're not saying it's justifying us. The Christ already did that, but there's such holiness in that sanctification striving, um, - Yeah. - Model. Right? - We, we do have this challenge.

And I, I just want to, I love what you said about, you know, some of our evangelical brothers and how they interpret some things. What, what I love about how they interpret things, Kurt, is when, when you talk to other Christians outside of our faith and they talk about salvation, it's often with exclamation marks. You know, like they are confident and assured. Whereas if you talk to Latter Day Saints and you say, how do you feel about salvation?

It's, there's hemming and hawing, and well, geez, man, I don't know. And I hope I can get there. And we have this idea, recognizing that we need to rely wholly upon the grace of Christ. And also recognizing I want to make improvements is, is a key part of the book that I wrote. We need to have the confidence in Christ and recognize there, there isn't any amount of load we're putting in the back of our truck or any amount of weights that we're gonna lift spiritually.

That's gonna now make, okay, now you've qualified. But as we're striving, we gain the confidence in Christ. He is redeeming me, he's saving me, he's strengthening me. And then we can work on those self-improvement efforts that so often have characterized that whether we think we're good or not, but we can work upon them with the exclamation point assurances. I'm good. I'm on the course leading to eternal life.

I have no question, even with my imperfections, that I can make it to the celestial kingdom, that I am gonna be redeemed by the Lord as I'm continuing to work on my challenges or weaknesses. And when I overcome them, that's not what's qualified me. It's still Christ. He's helping me strengthen these areas that I have made, you know, that are weak things that he's making strong. Yeah. - I, I love that. And going back to your, uh, your marathon analogy.

You know, so many times in the spiritual marathon that we're in, we're we're trying to qualify for the race that we've, that's already been, been won, right? We're, we're running and we think, oh, if I don't get, you know, this time, I'm not gonna qualify for the race. But that sounds so backwards. 'cause you are in the race. Yeah. Like you and you're gonna finish it. Right?

And I love just this idea of how runners will, you know, maybe they'll, you know, uh, train and they'll look back and think, oh man, that wasn't my, you know, that's, well, well below my personal best, and well my, my calves are feeling really tight, so maybe I need to focus more time on that stretching there. But there's no, like, that doesn't even come close to the, the defining of their personal identity. Right? They're not thinking, oh, I'm just not, I I'm just not qualified for the race.

'cause I, I didn't hit this certain level. Right? So it's just such this unique nuanced balance between these two things. But once we get there, it's, the gospel opens up and, and up, we really see the role of grace in all of this, you know, - A hundred percent. You know, and in my races that I've been in, and I don't all it all consider myself, I don't want your listeners to think, well, this guy's a great runner. I'm like the worst runner. Like, I have had to really work at running. I do.

It's, I'm like a tank. I put myself in one gear and I just go, and it's not that fast of a gear, believe me, . But I loved learning and the process that's gone into it, the planning, the preparation and the, the meditation that takes place.

But one of the things that, uh, there's an analogy when with something you said that reminded me of something, elder Reland said, this course, we, we like to talk linearly, and I'll try to describe this best for listeners, but we have like a point A and then it goes horizontally to point B. And like, that's where the tree life is, and we're on this path or whatever.

That's our destination. And so often as a, as a leader in the church, we have people that come in and they've, they've maybe fallen off the path, you know, they've, they've chosen to, or you know, they've, by neglect they've been lost or they've, they've wandered just carelessly whatever might be the case.

But they've decided, and they've found themselves maybe in a dark place, maybe it's, maybe it's addiction, maybe it's they've made poor choices in their marriage or, or in their life, whatever it is. They've come to talk to a church leader, a relief society president, a young woman's president, a bishop, whoever it might be. And they're so filled with that shame or guilt, guilt for having left the path.

And they come in with an expectation of, Hey, I'm gonna start working my way back to the path. This is what Elder Reinland said about that process. See if I can, he says, from God's pers perspective, through sincere repentance and pressing forward steadfastness in Christ once back on the path, it's as if we were never off.

And I, I think sometimes we have this idea of, okay, here's that linear, I'm point a horizontally going on, if you can picture this, and I've taken a, a dive down low, and so I have this new point. Well, if you can connect that new point to the original destination, the celestial kingdom, there's now your straight narrow path. Narrow path, you're back on it. Exclamation point, you're on the path.

There might be some outward things that we, you know, in the church that you have to qualify for a recommend again, or there may be a time period, or certainly consequences are there. But you're on the path. And, you know, elder McConkey taught years ago when we're on that path, whatever we're carrying with us, we're on it. I've decided to come to Christ again, and we leave this life, we're gonna continue on that toward, toward our eternal glory.

Hmm. And and that's where I think at Latter Day Saints, we suffer from this low spiritual self-esteem because we're always comparing ourselves to another runner on this course. Look how far Kurt is, or look how far this brother, so-and-so, or sister, so-and-So I'm not with him. It doesn't matter. Yeah. Are you on the course? Are you progressing toward the savior? Are you accepting his atonement and making that effort to, you know, apply it in your life?

You're good to go. Exclamation point. Yeah. - I love that. Sometimes we, uh, hear, you know, the term straight and narrow path and we assume, yeah. It's just this straight line between where we're at and where Christ is at. And I think someday it'll be beautiful when we're, when we're with Christ, and he sort of helps us reflect back on our journey. And we realize like that it was the elder inland quote said that, you know, you were actually on the path the whole time.

Look, it is, it's, it is a bit messy and it is a bit, uh, you know, crooked at times, but you were always headed in my direction, you know, and that's okay. And, uh, absolutely. And just this, uh, and this is the whole concept of coming to mortality. Um, you know, God, you know, God expected us to be weak to make mistakes and to sin, right? He doesn't, that doesn't mean he encourages encouraged it or tell us we should, but he knew that that would would happen and therefore gave us a savior.

And by the time we got there, we can say, yeah, you were, you were on the path the whole time. Like, I'm so glad, I'm so glad you persisted. Right. - Let me, let me share a story to that end that, uh, has meant a ton to me. And, uh, I just, I love the athlete who I'm gonna share about. It's gonna seem like I'm sharing a bad example, but I, I think it's, it's just describes how heroic this athlete is. But her name's Lindsay Jacob Ellis, and, uh, she is a, uh, snowboard cross athlete.

And for most people, if you're not into X Games type stuff, you've probably never heard of her. Maybe you have. She's, she's a great athlete. But in the 2006 Winter Olympics, this was one of the first times we had, um, the snowboard cross in the Olympics. And she was far and away the, the best at her sport. And everyone chose her to, to win. And, and she's dominated outside the Olympics like nobody else. So she's in the gold medal round.

And, uh, there's, I think it was four athletes in, in the Met Gold medal round. And the first two had fallen early on. So it was between, uh, Lindsay and this other, uh, athlete, Tanya Friesian. I friedan, I think Lindsay is like 40 yards ahead, I mean, way out ahead. And she's coming to the second, to the last jump, and she decides to pull a, a, a snowboard trick called the method grab. You kind of twist the border underneath, you grab it, it's gonna look great for the magazine covers.

The fans are, and she's probably pulled this trick a bazillion times. It's not like the most difficult thing to do for me and you, it would be Kurt, but for this athlete, it wasn't the most difficult. And so she is out ahead this moment of glory. The ch you know, the American athlete's gonna win this goal. She's dominated all the X Games and all the World Cup games, and she wipes out. Hmm. And we see her spinning on the side.

She's frantically trying to get up, and her momentum's almost lost, but it's enough to carry her slowly. And the second place who would've been second place, Tonya Fried, she then passes her for the gold arms in the air. And you see this athlete, Lindsay Jacob Ellis kind of limping to the finish. She gets a silver, which again, Kurt, if you and I got a silver medal, we'd probably wear it to church every Sunday. be betcha. And it would be a major defining just to compete in the Olympics.

And, and so I, but the story there is that she had a crash and she did lose a moment. You know, she let her guard down and it, and it cost her. And that's a big part of what I write about in my book, is we don't, we can't do what we did in the past. We need more strength now. And, and I talk about fortifying ourself in our day and age. Like, it, it just requires a, a different effort with the attack and onslaught of all the things.

But to her credit, Kurt, and what I, I bring back in the story is that she has qualified for three Olympics since then. Hmm. She did not let it define her. She didn't let it crush her. She didn't let it defeat her at all. And so I look at her, I, I, in my book, I talk about the best athlete.

I mean, tiger Woods, Michael Phelps, we got Diana Nyad, a great long distance swimmer and, and a, a lot of the lessons we can learn, she's the one I look to, not so much for the successes that we would define the winning, but what she's done since the crash.

And, and like you said, we're gonna have these ups and downs on our course, but the key isn't so much a perfect run, it's that when we do crash, we choose to reach out for the already outstretched arm of the savior and get back up back until our next crash, Kurt, when we're gonna need to do it again. Yeah. And, and so her success, she, she's had three Olympics, Kurt, and it hasn't had that.

I, I can't wait. I hope she has a fourth where I can say she got that gold and look how sweet this story is. But even if she doesn't, like the success story to me has already been written of how she's shown what really is defining her. It's that effort to keep going despite falling. It's not defined her life and so forth.

- So I'm curious, you know, just from your, um, your bishop perspective, I mean, 'cause like, like you said, these types of, uh, these types of, uh, individuals come into the Bishop's office and they just feel like, man, not only did I, I trip on the course, but man, I lit the whole thing on fire and, you know, all hope is lost. And, and you know, a guy like me, yeah, I know the atoma there, but a guy like me doesn't make this type of mistake, you know?

And, uh, I'm in a quote unquote an Olympic athlete. I don't make that type of, of mistake on the, on the course. Um, so how do you, how do you infuse this, this motivation of keep striving, keep going without it turning into, it's all about your effort. You know, how do you, how do you bring that the grace in at the same time as, as people are looking for deeper guidance, - That that is a, a balance there.

And I think, you know, when I've listened to a lot of your, your podcasts and it's kind of about changing culture, I think that that's where too much emphasis has been in the past, is you are imperfect. And we feel this weight, we have this imperfection complex, this low self-esteem in the church because we, we do have a high expectation of ourself, which is great. That's, that's wonderful.

But we've then kind of damaged ourself in regard to the kind of light and joy our, our father in heaven and the savior provided for us to have, because we we're not relying enough. So I guess, you know, there's a passage, there's, there's two passages we, we've kind of adopted or, or really one that we're focusing on right now in the church to talk about growth and the effort that we should make. And, and the, the first one is, you know, the children youth program with Luke 2 52 mm-Hmm.

and the Savior grew in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man. And that kind of outlines the four areas. And, and that's been a big part of my ministry of talking with the relief society presidents and, and young women's presidents and elders, GOM and myself. When people are coming to talk to us, let's talk about these four areas.

And, and you and I can talk about that a little bit more here in a minute, but the, the other part of the Savior's growth, there's, there's really only one other passage that kind of gives us anything from the point of where he was in the temple teaching to his ministry starting, right? We have Loop 2 52, and then the other one for me is, uh, section 93.

And we have a few verses there that I think are, are really telling of the process that I would tell to someone in that scenario that you brought up where I feel like I should have known better. I'm this kind of athlete. I'm, I've been married this long, or I shouldn't have, you know, gone to the party, whatever it might be.

It says in verse 12, and I, John saw that he received, and he's talking about the savior he received, not of the fullness at first, but received grace for grace, and then in 13, and he received not of the fullness at first, but continued grace to grace until he received a fullness. So what I would, you know, want to convey as I'm assisting someone is that there's two things spoken of there. There's an exchange spoken of, and there's progress. And, and, and the two grace phrases are the key.

So grace, for grace is the exchange. And so if someone came into me and said, Hey, I've, I've faltered, I've fallen, I'm, I I'm in this dark place. One of the things I'd want to talk about is, were you making an exchange in this time? Like, did you ex exchange your daily scripture reading habit for a non-reading habit? Did you exchange going to the temple for not going to the temple?

What's competed with some of the things that have strengthened you in the past and what things now might help you that you could exchange, uh, to gain strength in the future? Physically? It's easy. Hey, I wanna lose weight. Okay, well maybe knock out the 500 calories soda every day. You're gonna exchange 500 calories, soda for Inc. You know, I'm gonna a water bottle, zero calories, getting the hydration. Okay? There's 500 calories off the table already.

You're made in exchange. Spiritually it might be, I want closeness to the Lord. That's my desire. So I'm gonna exchange a couple hours of TV time to make it down to the temple, and I'm gonna go there and I'm making an exchange of time for closeness of to the Lord. The second thing it says there is, is that progress. So he exchanged grace for grace, and then he continued grace to grace. There's, there's the progress.

And, and so we're left in the scriptures wondering what, what it was the savior was exchanging. And, and his course was different than ours. You know, he was taking one step in front of the other, apparently always directed toward the father. And he's a great example that way. But we can apply it to the same way. I need to exchange something in my life to make the progress I want. And so with individuals to go circle back with individuals that come in, I would ident, where do you want to be?

You're, you're talking to me, which is a good sign, but, but why? What is it you feel bad because you've let mom and dad down? You feel bad 'cause your wife's mad? Or what's, why are you here? Well, I, I really want this connection. I've, I haven't made and kept covenants. And those other things are not less important. They're really important too. But when we identify here, here's where I want to go. Okay. What are you willing to exchange for it?

What are you willing to do to make that a priority? To put something aside, to make an adjustment or modification in your, your workout routine to fit that thing in more so that you can get to the, to the point of the destination you're really wanting to get to. - Hmm. So, um, and then how, as far as the grace to grace, uh, concept, so the grace, so you're, you're, when it's grace for grace, you're talking in the con context of like behaviors.

Like, are you, you know, what, what, what behaviors could you change in order to, uh, make that exchange, right? Yeah. And then, and then what, how, how is the, uh, the grace two grace manifested again, - That's the, that's the destination that's progress from here to there. And so like in goal setting with, within the gym, someone will come in and, uh, they'll say, I wanna lose 25 pounds. And so there's their destination is some measurement on a scale.

Mm-Hmm. . And so that's where we're gonna, where does, where do you want to go now? Where do you want to go? I wanna improve my relationship with my wife, or I want to, I wanna get back to the temple. It's been a long time. That's the destination. So identify where they want to go, and then what exchanges would need to be made in their life to get there. You know, part of your question earlier, Kurt, was what do you do with a guy that just feels like, shoot, how did I fall?

I guess there's some, there's some healthy, a little bit of a motivating guilt of like, I should have known better. Mm-Hmm. . But there's also just the reality of that, that we're never too old or too wise for the adversary to stop caring or about us, you know, to stop trying to, to bring us down. Joseph said early, Joseph Smith said early in his life, I, I learned early that I was gonna be a disturber and annoy of Satan's kingdom else. Why should the powers of darkness combine against me?

So for that person that came in, it's, how could I do this? I would just say, Hey man, join the club. There is no relief from their efforts to bring you down. Now if you're, if you're wanting to get back on track, well guess what? You coming in here has already sent a really clear signal and you're on the track. But some of the repair, we might have to go out like Morro and I and dig some ditches and make some walls and build some towers so that the adversary can't get back in.

Because there was, there was apparently a weakness somewhere that you're lamenting, how could I have done this? There was probably a gate that was open or someone that was asleep on a tower that allowed this to happen. - Yeah. So, uh, so it sounds like the, you know, when that person comes in, that the grace for grace, you're sort of saying, yeah, there's maybe some things you need to look at, need to adjust, but the grace to grace reminds 'em, Hey, but we're still on the path here.

Yeah. We're still progressing towards the goal where people can feel like, I made this mistake. Like, I don't, I think it was too much. Like, I think I'm off the path and yeah, I believe in the atonement, but I don't know, like, this is me, like I did this. Right? So this really helps them balance that of saying, yeah, you're right. There's some changes that need to happen, but you're still on the path, man.

You're, you're still, the fact that you're in this office with me proves that you're still on the path, - Right? Yes, a hundred percent. It's such a great signal that they've come to the bishop's office or they've come to their young women's president or, or a parent, you know, it's not always to the, to the bishop's office, but anybody who has decided to have enough courage, and sometimes it's just to the Lord. But when they go there and ask for that strength, it, there, there's a part of that.

That's why people, they always ask, you know, why is confession so important to somebody else? It it, it does something to our heart. It's, it's a changing of our heart to get to that point of vulnerability and humility where we're able to share with somebody else. And again, sometimes it's just with the Lord, you, you work it out. Sometimes it's with the parent, sometimes it's with the church leader or bishop.

But to get to that point where you go in and are able to say in, in humility to one of his representatives, I've done this and I want to change, man, there is such a clear signal to the Lord of, of where you're at on that path. And it's a lot further than you're probably feeling, really. It, it really, it really is. You know, Kurt, I turned to a scripture here. Lemme just read it real quick. Sure.

Um, section 45, and sometimes we get this, this thing mixed up too, when we're, we're wanting to have this, uh, cleansing in our life and how it's gonna happen. And I, I'm talking about a, these things, I'm, I'm really, again, careful in the book to make sure I'm not thinking that you have to work out your own salvation in the sense of that we're this works oriented church, or I'm this works oriented bishop.

When we come to the, to make this exchange, one of the exchanges we make is that I'm no longer wanting to represent myself and act my own way and do my own thing. I'm accepting the savior as a proxy for me. And one of the scriptures I love that teaches this is section 45 and verses three to five, the savior says, come and listen to him. Who's the advocate with the father who's pleading your cause? Now he says he's pleading your cause. So he's, he's pleading my cause, Kurt, your cause.

But listen how little he talks about the person whose cause he's pleading father, behold the sufferings and death of him who did know sin in him, whom thou was well pleased, behold the blood and of thy son, which was shed, the blood of him whom thou gave us that thyself may be glorified. He doesn't mention us at all. And so when we choose to make that exchange in our life, I I'm gonna let you be my coach. I'm gonna let you direct my path. I'm gonna rely upon your path. He stands in.

And so when he's representing us, and this is why we can have that exclamation point, assurance of our salvation, when we've chosen, when he's this, the father looks at him and says, you've accepted Kurt or Skye or whoever's name, and, and you guys have made that covenant agreement. Yeah. So the savior continues to plead, wherefore spare these, my brethren that believe on my name, that they may come onto onto me and have everlasting life.

And so I'd assure that young man, young woman, whoever it is that's coming in that adult, Hey, are you ready to make the exchange and let him be your representative? Yeah, - Let's do it. And I love that. I love that. 'cause it goes from me being on trial to the savior being on trial. Suddenly I'm outta the equation because I mean, that's the beauty of the, the infinite atonement, right?

Yes. I mean, he, he almost becomes beyond a representative to being encompassing, encompassing the sin, the transgression. He owns it now. It's not, it's not about you anymore. And which is - Beautiful. Awesome. And, and they see that and they feel it there, like you've, you've experienced on that side of the table before. But it, it's awesome when they go, okay, I'm gonna let him do it. Great. Awesome.

- All right. 39 minutes into this discussion, I'm finally turning to your outline that you asked, sent me . But, uh, but I think we touched on as far as the first principle you talked about is following the pattern of the savior in Luke two. Yeah. Uh, you, you've touched on this a little bit. What, what more do we need to add to that before we we move on - Again?

I would just add only that if we just focus on what someone's coming to talk to us about, and we should definitely make sure we've heard it and listen, and we're not trying to rush through that at all. But generally, the people will talk to a church leader about three of the four things on that, the saviors list. They'll come talk to a bishop about their spirituality. Um, they'll talk maybe about something socially it's happening in their family or with a friend or with their spouse.

Um, they'll talk about intellectually something that's happened at work. They've lost a job. They, but they rarely talk about the fourth one, the - Physical and, and, and review those four things again about how the savior grew. Yeah. - So he grew in wisdom, which would be intellectual, your professional stature, physical, and that's where I talk about your diet, your health, your strength. He grew in favor with God, the spirituality and in favor with man, your social, in the professional world.

They talk about that being your work life blend. And there's a lot of data about how that improves engagement, productivity and workplace morale. - You can't like hyperfocus on one No. And leave others out, right? Yeah. It's all part of the pie.

- Yeah. And, and they even call it, I have a, you know, I, I I deal, this is really just interesting to me, but work-life balance, in its broadest sense, this is a definition I'm reading, is defined as satisfactory level of involvement or fit between multiple roles in a person's life. And so I wow. In my ward, I talk about that with my leaders, Hey, make sure we're not just focusing on one thing.

If we're really gonna help someone, you can put a bandaid on on someone that comes in and they want to talk just about one. But if you're really trying to help them progress in life, have 'em follow the savior's example. He gained strength in these four areas they've told you about. One, do a little checkup on the others, how are you doing here or there?

And, and then what I would recommend they do is set goals, assist the person in, in setting those, those, those goals in life that will help them advance.

I just have found personally, and again, I I first, when I went down this avenue, I thought it was only gonna be anecdotal evidence, Kurt, but I have found so much research, and sometimes it's not written in the same language that we're used to in the church, but there's so much research about how the work life blend, how focusing on a a wellness wheel they sometimes will call it is so much more effective at long-term strength.

Not just for the thing you were weak in professionally, socially, spiritually, physically, but for all four areas. And so when my youth are preparing for missions or adults come in and they want counseling, I, it may not be the first visit. We start talking about the other things, but soon in the conversation, if since my effort is to help them progress long-term and in, and, and just like the savior, we start talking about the four areas.

- Yeah. And, and I love that because as a leader, it's easy to sort of get pigeonholed on, on one thing, right? Like, is he, is he going on a mission or not? Are are people showing up to sacrament or not? Right? Are, um, you know, just think of some of these more superficial goals that sometimes, uh, that we get defined by, right? That's in the, the quarterly report. And so , if that number's not trending up, like there's a problem here, right?

Yes. But, but to step back and say, you know, okay, we have, you know, Jimmy here, uh, he's, uh, 17, doesn't really look like he's on course to, uh, go on a mission in the next year or two. Or maybe the desire isn't there. So I'm gonna step back and instead of just sort of, you know, throw some behaviors and habits at 'em, like, Hey, do more scripture study, Jimmy. Like, that's what you need. And you aren't intent, you gotta attend seminary, Jimmy.

That's what you gotta do. But to step back and ask maybe curious questions around these areas, right? As far as wisdom, stature, yes. You know, how how's your health Jimmy? Like what, you know, and again, not that you get into the details of these things, but just looking at a more broad sense, you get a better picture. And that's because that's how Christ developed himself.

- A hundred percent Kurt. And you know, as a bishop, when I first was called, even till this point now, the struggle to feel like I need to get outside of my lane is real. You know, and I've heard you, you've had the experts on here talking about, for example, pornography addiction. I'm a seminary teacher, I have a coaching minor. I haven't, my, my major is in visual arts. Okay? So like , I, I am not qualified to be, you know, to help someone with some of the really serious help.

Now I am qualified to direct them to others that are, and I've been blessed in my ministry to have a great brother-in-law that's in that field. And so I'm on the phone with him all the time, or, or visiting and, and getting really great input on like pornography addiction or some of, some of the serious family challenges people have.

But as a bishop or a church leader to stay in your lane, you, you said you ask the curious question, you're not choosing the destination that they want to go as a leader in our families or with those in our, in our ministry, we help identify where they want to go. And the framework that the church has put out of the four focuses is right on, Hey, where do you wanna go physically? Do you feel like you're where you're at? Let me help you.

I, I would say the gap, and I'm not being critical of the program at all. I, I think it's inspired that we have this new goal setting plan of let's set goals in these areas.

But the challenge so many are finding is, unless you've got great parents or coaching or you know, young men, young women leaders around you to help you learn the process of setting goals, sitting down in January and then maybe again in July and Pencilling out, here's what I wanna do in these four areas, and you have it written in your little booklet, the chances of that leading to the actual destination are very small.

Yeah. And so one of the things, and maybe we wanna talk about that now, Kurt, is, is a, a process I've, that I've tried to coach myself up on, that I've used and my, my family and in my ministry of, well, here are, if you're wanting to get there, here's a, here's a goal setting strategy that might help you get further along than you have. Rather than just penciling some things down in your booklet in January and in July, and then hoping you finally get Yeah. To where you want to go.

- Yeah. I think that would be, uh, very helpful. 'cause you know, as a, as a youth leader myself, I'm, you sort of get in this mode of like, okay, we're supposed to fill these four boxes, here we go. Yeah. And, and they became very, even superficial, they, there's not much depth to 'em or thought, but hey, the boxes are full, so let's move on and, and we're gonna, you know, help Jimmy shoot a buck this year. You know, here we go, you know, whatever it is. Exactly.

And, and, and as a youth leader, I'm thinking, what, what am I supposed to do with that? Like, hopefully his dad's a hunter. 'cause I'm not, you know, like Yeah, exactly. - When I think we felt it as a church, there was so much excitement around the new year, November, December, January, we've got this new program we're rolling out. We were having maybe some meetings.

Um, we know that we're, we're not the role that maybe we were at the, in earlier days in the church, where if they come to church or mutual, we're gonna get their duty to God or scouting done. This is really a family centered program. Um, but a really great way we can be a resource to those individuals, the youth and the parents, is to say, Hey, here's some goal setting techniques. Here's some ways if, if you're struggling and you'd like help shooting the buck.

Was that the example you gave? Yeah. - I don't know where that came from. - If you'd like to shoot the buck, then, uh, here, here's a guy in the ward that is a hunter, and here's a YouTube video. You know, whatever. Yeah, yeah. But here are some steps that will help to get you to that destination. To make the exchange to make the progress. - Gotcha, gotcha. So where do we, uh, so this is with strategizing for success? Yeah. As far as more fit goals. So take us down this path.

- Okay. So the very first thing I'd say is if you have a goal setting system or strategy that works for you, stick with that. I'm not at all trying to tear down any other goal setting system. Like a lot of people are familiar with SMART goals, and I think those are great. And you're gonna hear and feel a lot of the same sentiment - And smart goals just for people. That's, it's an acronym for, uh, - Specific, specific, specific, measurable, attainable, relevant, timely.

Right. And I love it. I love it. But, uh, mine is is called More Fit. More Fit. And I have an acronym there, but, and - That's an acronym. Okay. That's - An acronym. And I'll go over each one, but I actually scramble it up quite a bit. Um, I can easily cite it by saying more fit, but I, I wouldn't recommend that order and I'll go through the order and why I would recommend it that way.

But the first thing to have in mind, I think where most other goal setting systems or where people fail with goal setting is that like we, we've done in the church in January, we sat down or at New Year's resolutions, people sit down and they're fired up. They're excited, and they write down 2, 3, 4 goals. And, uh, but that's kind of it.

And even with like a, a smart goal setting system, it's, it's almost like you see what those attributes are, the s the m, the a RT, and you try to form a goal that kind of fits all of them at once. And that that's fine. It's good. And I think it's helped a lot of people. That's why so many people have heard about that acronym. But what I like to think about goals more is it's like a funnel.

Like if you could picture a funnel with a filter on the end of it, and so you're putting stuff in, and by the time it comes out, it's quite different form, but you're not worried about that when you put it in. It's a process. When it comes out, now I'm gonna have this. And so of the morph fit each letter rep representing something. The first one is, I, I would put it in writing. In writing. And this is time, you know, everyone who writes goal. Yeah.

You gotta have it written down. And as much as people know that Kurt, they, they still kind of struggle with it sometimes, uh, maybe it's the accountability portion or whatever of having it written. But first thing to do is, is write it down. And Kurt, shoot, if you have a goal in mind, maybe we could just walk through this process with you. I want you to look, I'm putting you on the spot right here. Oh boy. - . Think of a, it's definitely not to, not to shoot a buck. I, - No.

Okay. But think of, I don't care what area it's in. Physical, social, spiritual, intellectual work goal. What whatever you got. - Um, so, so one goal at, at that you've caught me at a time. I'm literally, I'm homeless. I live in my car. , not literally, but, um, my, I'm living with my parents right now as we are going through this process of qualifying for a mortgage. And then hopefully in the next month or two, uh, we will be living in a home.

And so we have this goal and it gets a little complicated because, you know, I'm self-employed. Yeah. Uh, you know, it's it, which makes the mortgage qualification process more. Anyway, so that's for another time. But, um, but we have this goal that, uh, and I actually write this down. I have, I have a system as well. Every, every night I call, call 'em my glory to Gods and I or my glories to God. And, uh, and I write these down. And one of them is that we will live in a remarkable home

by August of 2020. Wow. - Okay. So you have some, and that's my goal. This is great. And you've already kind of honed it down a little bit with a date on there. Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. . And what I would tell people, and, and what, and now we have a realistic example here, is when you're first doing it. And, and it's fine that you're already a step ahead 'cause you've got a program and a process in place.

But don't worry so much that sometimes limits people, Curtis, that they think I'm gonna, I, this, this goal isn't quite right. I'm not quite ready. I do this. I'm an online professor for BYU Idaho as well. And one of the things is to set goals. And they, they get so stressed out about it. So just get something down you wanna do. And so for your case, I wanna be in a remarkable home by August, 2020. Yep. That's great. That's right. So you have that written down.

Um, we're, we're gonna take it through another process. And Kurt, you may have already walked through some of these steps. So you ask yourself, why do I wanna accomplish that? Um, what's the purpose? And, and you've already expressed some things, but, uh, you might wanna ask yourself, is anyone else gonna be involved in you securing a remarkable home by August? Can you think of a couple that might be, uh,

- Well, my wife will be involved there, right? , - So your dream home might have some things included that. So you need to get on the same page with your wife, - Right? Yep. Uhhuh, , - There's loan documents that take time and all that, that you've, you want to be in there by August. Okay? Mm-Hmm. . The other thing you might wanna consider is when and where am I gonna work on it? But this is all just initial stage. We're just asking some questions.

This clearly seems like a goal you want, so we've got it in writing. The second goal or second aspect of the Morphic system would be to ask yourself, is it realistic? And - That's the r - Yeah, it's the R realistic. And I add, I add another one here. So my seven step process really has 10, 10 letters in it. But you can't, you know, the word more fit only had seven. So we're, we're stuck with that con Okay.

, but realistic and reported. Okay. So this seems like, have you guys started the home hunting process at all? - Uh, we're just at the process of getting pre-qualified for the mortgage. Awesome. And then we'll launch into the, the home search. Right? - I think there's probably a dozen realtors that are gonna be emailing you right now telling me . Okay. But it seems like a realistic, - I've got a realtor, folks, don't email me. All - Right, .

So you've got this realistic goal and the reporting here, i I, with mo with our goals, I think it's super important to have that level in there of who else could I report to in this, like a physical goal. Sometimes people have a workout buddy or a trainer or a coach Uhhuh, and you're working with - A, so it's like an accountability aspect. - Absolutely. Uhhuh, it's so helpful on the process of setting and then achieving goals.

So the youth in your ward, you're telling them, Hey, can you report to a parent or a sibling or to a church leader, one of your ma uh, young men or young women advisors, uh, maybe one of the specialists now, what we would call it in church, the specialist could be a, you know, children youth initiative specialist. But you, you'd wanna report this, your efforts and your wife's efforts and your families maybe to this process of finding the home.

The third part. And, uh, from what you've already expressed, I can tell you there, but the EE would be the third one to be emotionally connected to it. Hmm. Too often our youth or those that we're ministering with, uh, they, they set a goal based on what you think as the bishop or as their parent that they, but you really gotta hone down, Hey, I love that goal. That's great. That'll make me so happy as a bishop parent. But man, do you really wanna read the book of Mormon in a month?

I mean, that's, is that something you're emotionally connected to? Hmm. - Yeah. In your, it - Said the, you, you want this remarkable house, you know, and, and yeah. For great reasons. - And I would imagine even in the context of, you know, you're at a, in your, uh, priest corps meeting and, you know, everybody's filling out their, their, their quadrant here and you're thinking, I just gotta write something down to move on. Right. They're, they'll keep asking me.

And there's no emotional attachment there. - Yeah, exactly. And so it's a good goal, but it's not something they're emotionally connected to. So as an adult advisor, bishop, whatever you might be tempted to say, or as your parent, Hey, that's awesome. And they now have checked off in their list, I pleased my parent, my bishop, my advisor, but they're never gonna look at it again. - Yeah. So, I mean, what would you say about, I mean, sometimes, especially with youth, it's hard, right?

Like, they just, they're good. Like, I just wanna play Minecraft all day. You know, like they, they're, they really struggle. And I, I was this youth as well to connect emotionally with certain goals. 'cause they think, as long as I'm fed and you gimme at least a couple hours on my screen time, you know, I'm good. .

- Yes. And you know, it's, it's a hard balance, Kurt, because kind of in the old model of, of leadership, we as leaders, we'd kind of create a menu and of things that we already thought were great. And then say, Hey, choose from one of these , and yeah. And then, and then you'll be right on. And it's - Like, which merit badge do you wanna hear? Yes, exactly. Here's the - List.

Exactly. . But it's, it's important to say, listen, I, I can help and here's some suggestions of ideas, but you, I really want you to find something that's helpful. So I'm gonna give you some ideas. Don't be limited to the list. Even just saying that phrase like, don't be, don't feel limited, don't feel locked in. But a lot of these people have a hard time. What's an intellectual goal? What's a social goal like?

Mm-Hmm. . So having someone break it down, a mentor figure to then given some counsel on like, here, let's, here's some ideas, but you don't feel locked into it. Okay. Yeah. And yours, I didn't choose at all. I wasn't never gonna guess, let's get a house. But . So you're emotionally connected to that. You're like you said, you're living in the van, you know? Yes, yes. And, uh, you wanna get that. So the next step is one that a lot of people are familiar with.

It's also in smart goals, but more, the more fit m is measurable. And, uh, this should take a lot of time. Making our goals measurable is difficult. It takes time to really evaluate, how will I measure this success will look like. What? And and so obviously the end goal for you is to be in a house that'll be very measurable, but it'd be really wise to make steps in between, um, things that, like I need to talk, go visit homes on these weekends. Um, really hone down on what I'm looking

for in, in a house. Like, I, - Like we need to go out twice a week to look for homes. Yes. Like, we can't, we can't just expect a home to, to show up. Yeah. We have to be out there. Right. - And I, I think that, and I know that this is something that's already part of what you do, but you know, a spiritual component of that would be like, we're gonna include the Lord in this process. Hmm. You know, where, where can we really strengthen a community?

Or where could our family be strengthened by help us find, you know, that's something that Latter Day Saints would incorporate into their, you know, their process. Okay. - And so it's not just one measurement of this is how much weight I'm gonna lose, or this is what I'm gonna do. It's, there might be 10 different measurements throughout this process that you've identified. - Yes. And I, I thank you for bringing that up, Kurt, because the physical equivalent is the scale.

Like people use scale one measurement, and it's the scale. How much weight have I lost? And so, like, you know, for example, a woman might go in and her, her overall goal is to change body composition. She maybe wants to be more toned or, uh, you know, appear thinner, whatever. And, and the one measurement she's familiar with is to scale.

She goes in, if she had measured herself ahead of time, and then two months later she's doing the str she's her, the circumference of her arms or legs or whatever that look was, is actually shrunk. But her body mass has increased in weight because she has more muscle mass there. Right. She feels like a failure because she chose the wrong measurement. And so you gotta, I would say choose multiple in your case. You know, I want to, here's, I'm gonna meet with this people.

I'm, we're gonna pray about it, we're gonna talk about it, we're gonna, and so you have multiple ways to, to judge, Hey, have, have I been successful in measuring our progress here on that? - And, and just being aware that you may pick a measurement that is hurting you more than helping you. Right?

- A hundred percent. And that's, again, spiritually, that's so often that comes one of the measurements that we sometimes accurately or interact use in the church is the temple recommend, do I have one? And there are, you know, there's requirements that, you know, a bishop, as much as he might love or be compassionate, they're, they're just, this is what the standard is. But helping a member understand, I'm on the course progressing toward God. I am a hundred percent, my salvation is intact.

Even though currently I'm working through some things to increase worthiness. I'm still worthy of salvation. And temporarily I can't go to the house of the Lord on earth, but I'm a hundred percent okay, I'm gonna continue to progress toward his house in heaven. Yeah. So, alright, - Love it. - You see how I'm going back and forth. My mind can't stop here, Kurt. I just a physical spiritual, alright, I think we're on. We just did measurable, right?

- That's right. - Yeah. So the next step, the fifth step would be the T and, uh, make 'em timely and tied to an action. And there's some crossover here. Kurt, you already have yours. I wanna be it by August. It's really important to have a date when the youth and adults or whoever was involved in January set their goals. Um, it just loosely says to do twice a year. I think goal setting really should be done. 60 to 90 day increments is usually the, the best.

But, um, you know, if you did 'em twice a year, there could be goals that really do take six months each time. So how having and that, and, - And that gives them an opportunity to sort of reassess or think, okay, maybe, maybe I am measuring the wrong things or whatever. And so, uh, just because the, the church says too, that's probably a, a bare minimum, right? I, - I would say so. I mean, I think to revisit them, and I think in July when we, many will probably start doing that.

Hopefully we're easing back into church July, August, we're having more meetings, even though this one could be really well done over a, a zoom call with your, your priest of laurels or whatever, but, or what used to be called laurels. But, uh, yeah, this, we'll see it again. And, and hopefully some of these steps might help some of those leaders or parents that are, that are working on it. So we, we have a date, I wanna lose this much weight.

I wanna have my house. Um, I, by this time I, I wanna have indexed this many names, whatever their goal might be. And then the other TI add there is, is tied to an action, like an actual ING word that someone could put on their paper. So your original goal, the way you stated it, ker, what, can you tell me that again? How you, how you have that written out? We - Will live in a remarkable home by August of 2020.

- So maybe the word could be like living or, um, buying or, or some kind of word that would be the, or exploring, you know, 'cause you're looking at all these options, but trying to find a, a key word that you could have on a wall. And, and you'll see another step here that's kinda like this, but having some kind of action that you could quickly associate with the process of the destination where you're wanting to go is, is very helpful step. It should, should - Be.

It should be a verb you're saying? - I, I think so. You know, that's, yeah. Yeah. What little I know of English. Those action words, you know, are crucial. So Okay. Throwing one of those in timely and tied to an action. Step number six is fear. Confronting and flexible. Um, our goals, shoot, we don't have to tackle our biggest fear right away, but we should identify where it is on the track and start doing exercises or making adjustments so that we can get over that when we do get there.

And boy, fear, I mean, here being on the show, you know, writing a book, Kurt, I can't tell you for, for 20 years I had this idea to write a book, but I had so many hurdles on the track that kept me from doing it. And I had a great coach in my corner, my wife that was always like, sky, you gotta write that book, man. I think this could help a lot of people. You're passionate about it. It seems like the Lord's kind of kept back other resources like this from other people.

Get it out there. And she kept coaching and encouraged me to hit the hurdle. I didn't know how to write a book. I didn't know how to find a publisher, an editor, you know, contact Kurt Frank and get on a podcast . I, yeah, yeah. None of this was in my lane at all. And, but I, I finally started addressing the fear and it's, it's made, it's huge. It's, I mean, writing a book is, is such a vulnerable thing. And other people have different fears.

Maybe it's coming to see the bishop, maybe it's applying for that new job. Maybe it's, they've been in a rutt in their family. They've never done family home evening Come follow me scriptures. And they're, and they're that dad that wants to, but it's been a fear. How do I do it? How do I actually, what's that look like? And so they see that fear and now they start heading toward it on track. They get some mentoring.

They talk to an elders corn president, they listen to a podcast, whatever it might be to get some strength on hitting that hurdle. And, uh, trying to get over it - And, and really just creates this expectation that there's gonna be some fears that crop up and we gotta be flexible. Yeah. You know, you can't just expect this to all go, you know, one thing in front of the next and, and, and it'll just happen. And I hit my goal 'cause I was focused on it.

But that allows some of that, uh, room to absorb that shock of failure. Maybe along the way. Maybe you're scared to Yeah. To move forward and, and that's expected. - Well, and part of the flexibility of it too, Kurt, is realizing I'm not actually as emotionally invested in this as I first thought, you know, that was our Mm-Hmm , our letter E our third step. We have to be flexible and sometimes realize losing 20 pounds actually wasn't what I wanted to do.

I feel great. I weigh the same amount, but so 20 pounds, I'm taking that off my, I'm successful even though that's not what I hit. Or some other, you know, professional goal. Like I, my goal was to do this, but now I'm adjusting it because I really found success wasn't in what I wrote down on my paper, it was this. And so I'm adjusting it to that. Cool.

Alright, the last step is, is the o and that is a word I made up, I don't think this is actually in the dictionary, but it's, it's to make our goals one word able or one traceable. And it might very well incorporate that tied to an action verb thing that we did earlier that ING word. But this is again, like on my phone here, I'll flash it to you Kurt, so you can see it.

But on my, uh, my home screen, I have written down my key words or phrases that I, I also have written down the actual statement, like onto you've made. But as it's gone through the funnel and filter and come out, I now have that statement that's very clear and measurable and all those things. But it's also got a one word or phrase.

Oftentimes it does have that action word in there, but sometimes it, it doesn't, that action word helped me to create a different word or phrase that I can put on a sticky note or on the home screen of my phone around my house. And it's private enough that no one else is kind of getting in unless they're my reportable person, my, my teammate, or, uh, they're clear enough for me though that I, I can remember the whole statement of my goal.

Hmm. And so I just have this quick reminder every time I look at my phone, what my goals are, and I can remember it because if you, you know, having it written down isn't so just in January, it's for the first day of the month, the second it's so you can keep looking at it and remember, this is the destination I'm gonna go to. I'm making these exchanges in my life of time or energy or effort to get to that point. I'm gonna stay on track 'cause I want this so bad.

- Yeah. I, I like that because especially for youth who maybe you're a little bit more bashful about, you know, what they're trying to do. They don't, you know, it's always good habit to, you know, put something on your mirror, right? Yeah. And put, put put this goal on your mirror and they think, I don't wanna put it up there and my little sister's gonna see it, you know? Yeah. So it sort of makes it a code of, uh, but still is motivating.

- Totally. It masks it, it's individualized. It's your word. And, uh, if you wanted to share it again, I, we talked about making it portable, that's fine to that person, but not everyone needs to know. - Yeah. Awesome. So there, there's the more fit model, that's - The more fit model right there.

And again, we didn't, we didn't do it in more fit, but, uh, it's, uh, I can't even say, or I, or ear, I don't even know how to say it out outside of Morph Fit , but Morph Fit are all the elements and they're, they're scrambled up there. - Nice. And, uh, we'll put that in the, the short notes if people wanting to, uh, take a quick glance at it. And of course it's in, in your book as well, right? Correct. Yeah. Um, that's awesome.

And then let's just round up our discussion with the last point here. As far as overcoming plateaus. Have we, have we hit on that much or, yeah, - Just slightly.

But you know, Kurt, and there's a story of, of Michael Phelps in the Olympics, and you, you might remember this, more people are familiar with swimming, especially Michael Phelps, but the Olympics that he was going, I think it was 2008 when he was trying to, uh, tie the record of Mike, uh, mark Spitz seven Golds and, and break it and go for eight golds in one Olympics.

And again, it, it is un unworldly to be, yeah, not alone qualifying for eight events, but be the guy that wins the gold in eight is unbelievable. But he's in this one event, it was the hundred, I think it's the a hundred butterfly, it's just down and back once in the, in the pool.

And this was the one event they thought that if, if he was gonna slip up in his quest to tie it was gonna be in this event because the other guy he was going against, um, Milo Cabbage, Serbian swimmer trains in America. But Serbian swimmer was really good. They were all really good. But anyway, so he's in this event and it's down and back at the first down, he's in second to the last place. He's got six swimmers ahead of him that he's gotta pass up.

And Phelps is known for having just in this incredible endurance and never tapering, but it's just still looked like an uphill battle. He turns that wall and he's coming back and they're just meters away from the wall. And he made an adjustment, and this is where, this is how we overcome plateaus. If he had stayed the same way he was doing this incredible Michael Phelps swimming, he would've lost. But he, he chose to increase the, the frequency of a stroke.

And he, he did a quicker stroke at the end than he'd done the whole time. And instead of gliding to the finish, he took an extra half stroke and beat out the other swimmer by one, 100th of a second. Like literally, you - Remember this? I remember watching it. Yeah. Just, you almost couldn't tell even in the slow motion. Right? - Honestly, I still can't tell if it weren't for still shots like this. The other guy looked like he had the race won and they, they, they filed a complaint.

They've already had it won, and finally they had a still shot. And like it is a fingernails distance. And, and sometimes that's all that it's gonna take in our life, Kurt, is to make an adjustment in one variable if we're in a plateau, physically, spiritually, socially, intellectually. Ask yourself, is it a matter of duration, frequency, or intensity? And in, in Phelps case, he adjusted frequency.

I'm gonna take a little half stroke, but if we apply that to another area, let's say it's a scripture reading. Okay, I'm gonna plateau scripture reading. I'm not getting anything out. Well, maybe it's the frequency with which you're reading it, you're only reading on Sundays, so maybe you wanna go for the daily read or the daily Listen, we say, I'm already reading seven days a week. Okay, maybe it's the, uh, the duration.

Maybe you're only reading five minutes and you want to go, maybe 10 sounds good. Someone says, Hey, I, I'm reading 10 minutes a day. That's all I got. I'm so busy, I don't want anything more on my plate. Well, that's great. You're reading seven days a week, 10 minutes a day. That is absolutely great. Maybe it's the intensity. I don't want you to increase any more time. I don't want you to increase any more frequency.

But maybe while you're reading, you could just incorporate prayer into that 10 minutes pondering into maybe you just ask a question ahead of time. You look for a specific thing, you're underlining a certain word, it's just slightly adjusted the intensity of your scripture reading. And now you can break forth from a plateau. Now something different will happen. You've made a little exchange, you're gonna get to a different destination than you were before.

And so that physical fitness principle applies for runners and it definitely applies, uh, for the spiritual fitness seeker who just wants to get out of a play. I'm in a rutt not getting anything out of it, adjust one of those variables. - No, and what a great model to, um, as you're in these coaching scenarios as a leader, you know, you can sort of pull those three items out and say, you know, what's, what is it about our quorum that we feel plateaued?

Well, let's look at the frequency, the, the, the duration and the intensity. And, uh, the inspiration will come and new ideas will propel you in a new direction. Yep. Awesome. Well, what, what, anything we're missing Skye that, uh, , I mean, we could, there's - More - Chapters of your book. I appreciate - That. We've appreciate you asking, and it's been a great time to just share. I'm, I'm really passionate about these things.

I, I would just say again, and we talked about it early on, the message I would give as a leader or a parent to anybody, and certainly this can come across wrong when you're saying here, I've got a book called Morph Fit for the Kingdom. Like someone can feel guilt or weight like, oh, my spiritual fitness is so bad. And the the effort is, is more. So it's not about crashes. We're all gonna have 'em. It's not about being, having a perfect run.

It's about looking to the savior and having, allowing him to make your weak thing strong knowing while you're working on those self-improvement efforts. You don't need to feel guilty. You don't need to have a spiritual lo self-esteem. You can have confidence. I'm improving and he's proud of me. And even when I'm pausing on the path, I'm acceptable in his sight because I'm looking toward him. I'm aimed toward that de destination and he'll help me get there. He'll make my weak thing strong.

- That concludes this episode of the Leading Saints podcast. We'd love to hear from you about your questions or thoughts or comments. You can either leave a comment on the, uh, post related to this [email protected] or go to leading saints.org/contact and send us your perspective or questions. If there's other episodes or topics you'd like to hear on the Leading Saints podcast, go to leading saints.org/contact and share with us the information there.

And we would love for you to share this with any individual you think this would apply to, especially maybe individuals in your ward council or other leaders that you may know who would really appreciate the perspectives that we discussed. And that concludes this throwback episode of the Leading Saints Podcast. Remember the Jody Moore presentation about youth and mental health is waiting for [email protected] slash 14.

- It came as a result of the position of leadership, which was imposed upon us by the God of Heaven, who brought forth a restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ. And when the Declaration was made concerning the only, only true in living church upon the face of the earth, we were immediately put in a position of loneliness. The loneliness of leadership from which we cannot shrink nor run away. And to which we must face up with boldness and courage and ability.