Does a youth leader ever feel like they have it figured out? This hasn't been my experience. However, I couldn't be an effective youth leader today without Dan Duckworth's presentation about going from youth worker to youth mentor. Mentorship is a key concept to understand when leading youth. In his presentation, Dan talks about ways to really turn the traditional approach to leading youth on its head. How can you better know your purpose? How can you find out their life goals?
How can you build a relationship that is transformational rather than simply filling time during the weekly youth activity? You can watch Dan's presentation in the Young Saints virtual library by going to leading saints.org/14. You'll get free access for 14 days, and that will give you plenty of time to watch Dan's presentation a few times. Let's give youth the leadership they deserve.
I got an email the other day from an individual, I forget where he is in the world, but he says, Kurt, I love Leading Saints and I listen to it every time I'm on the treadmill. And then one time during an interview, he heard that Leading Saints has a YouTube channel and, like, all the interviews, at least the vast majority of them are video recorded and you can watch the video recording of the podcast episodes. And I'm, like,
yeah, man. Get on there. Go subscribe on YouTube to Leading Saints, and you can get a visual of the interview and not just an audio experience. And even if you're not a big YouTube user, do us a favor because this actually helps us gain more reach and expose our content to individuals who could really
benefit from it, leaders around the world. So regardless if you are on YouTube a lot or not, go to YouTube and search for Leading Saints, find the familiar red logo, and just subscribe even if you don't plan to view every episode there, that's gonna help us, gain a larger audience and more reach, dial in the algorithm, and, we'll start showing up on leaders feeds that they didn't know how much they're missing
here at Leading Saints. So head on over to YouTube, search for Leading Saints, and subscribe to our channel, and leave a comment every once in a while, but be nice. Welcome back to the Leading Saints podcast. I'm excited that we got in the studio Greg
Trimble who actually owns the studio. You may not realize this, but we this studio that I use every, you know, as much as I can, at least for the in person interviews, is in the basement of a business called Lemonade Stand, and they're so gracious in allowing us to use the studio, and Greg is the owner of that business and is also a phenomenal bishop. And as we talked to you know, we're good friends. We talked about different ideas,
leadership concepts. He shared a phenomenal, a revolutionary approach that he's been using with his youth, with his ward mission, as far as how to engage the youth and help better prepare them for missionary service by allowing them to visit and teach different
families in their ward. And, he goes through all the nuts and bolts of it, how it's set up, and I think you'll be inspired, especially if you're looking for a unique way to engage the youth in your ward, calling them as ward missionaries and giving them specific assignments, you know, coordinated by the ward mission leader, and it is a phenomenal interview. Definitely listen till the end, and, you'll be inspired. So here's my interview with Greg Trimble.
Alright. Today, I'm logging in Greg Trimble to his own studio here. Most people don't realize this. They probably think, oh, that's a cool studio that Kurt has in his basement, but it's not in my basement. It's in Greg's basement, his work basement. Right? Yeah. That's right. And this is Lemonade Stand. This is your company, your baby. Yeah. Right? And, you let podcasters like me rent this out and create some good content. Yeah. The best. Nice.
So glad to be here. Yeah. Well, I'm excited to finally, bring you down here and and talk with you. We've been This is round 2. Yes. This is round 2. It was several years ago. Yeah. I think you we interviewed you about your experience as Sunday school president. Uh-huh. And you were in Southern California at the time. That's right. So we'll link to it so they can Yeah. Get even an more perspective of yours. So No. No. No. Now early on, I feel like you had sort of this personal brand as
like a blogger. But is that still the case? I mean, you're a writer. But Yeah. I wrote a lot. I blogged a lot. I haven't been blogging lately. I've been very busy. And so I write a lot more infrequently now. But, yeah, I used to write a lot, but it's hard. Yeah. Writing content is hard. I know. And it takes time. And and it also got kind of stressful with the amount of The trolls out there? Yeah. I mean, the Internet's a crazy place. It is. Right? You put in a bin out there, and somebody
will always tell you that you're Yeah. You're gonna end civilization Yeah. Because you would think that way. Right? Yeah. So But I love writing. Yeah. I I started it just because I wanted to try to share the gospel online because I ran out of people to talk to in my area in Southern California and thought, you know, I know what to do with the Internet and search engine optimization and all that. And so I tried to share it with as many people as I could. Yeah.
Yeah. It's awesome. And you've written several books that come out of that Mhmm. That writing. So people see your name in popular church bookstores. Right? Yeah. So now you've been a bishop for how long now? It's almost 4 years now. Okay. Yeah. Just about to land the plane. Getting close. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. And and what's that I mean, just thinking back in those 4 years, just generally speaking, what's that experience been like for you? It's been amazing.
It's been humbling. It's been stressful at times and exhilarating at times. And I've just been so grateful to work with the people. Honestly, the people in our ward, like, there's a million other people that could serve in that capacity. I'm not sure why I am. But the people in our ward are so good, and it makes it a lot easier than it might be otherwise. But I just I get to work with amazing people, and and it makes it great. Right. And now you're no longer in Southern
California. You are in Utah. Yeah. Just to make sure. Yeah. We moved to Utah about 5 years ago and and I've been loving it ever since. Nice. It's a little less crowded. A little less. Right? Now what do you remember from, like, the the first 6 months or so? Like, just certain expectations you had walking that calling and then I mean, if you were to go back in time those, you know, 4 years and talk to yourself in those first 6 months, like, what comes to mind first
about, what you've learned? Yeah. I actually had somebody ask me that on a golf course. And it was a younger brother, and he he asked me said, what's the most important thing you've learned as serving as a bishop? Same question. And it boiled down to 3 things. And those three things were the very first one, everybody's dealing with something. Everybody has something
really tough that they're dealing with. And I know president Irene once talked about I don't know the exact quote, but he said, hey. Everyone you see assume that 50% of them are going through a catastrophic issue in their life. And I actually feel like that might even be higher, you know, with the amount of things that are going on in the world. But that was the first thing is everybody is dealing with something. And it's so important to just be kind and understanding and and not judgmental.
You know, judge not according to appearance. Yep. And so that was the first one. And then the second one was that wickedness never was happiness. I've never seen anybody that I've talked to that were that they were happy about making decisions that impacted others or themselves in a negative way. And then the third one was that Christ is the solution to every problem. Mhmm. So those 3 three things I've just seen over and over again since I started.
As far as what expectations I had, you know, going into it, I I knew it was gonna be difficult. And it has been difficult, but it's also been really rewarding to see people change and get better and have a desire to get better and to see the way that they serve each other behind the scenes without anybody really knowing. Oftentimes, it's just been so exciting to watch the goodness in people. Yeah. Now is it would you frame it as a pretty typical Utah
Ward? Or how would you describe the demographics or the makeup of your Ward? I don't think it's a typical Utah Ward. I think that there's a lot of people that have served in various leadership capacities in that ward. And they've moved from various places, you know, to be there from all around the country. A lot of them have come from California and the East Coast and and all over. And it's sort of like a melting pot
of of really cool people Nice. Which, you know, has kind of helped in the direction of some of the things that we've done inside that ward, actually. Wow. So youth is obviously always the priority of a bishop. Is that is it a heavy youth program like a lot of lot of youth? Or how would you describe that? We've got about 60 youth. Okay. And so it's a good sized youth program, and they're all amazing. I love them. If they ever listen to this someday, I hope they know how much I love
them. But it's been amazing working with them. Again, we have the best elders quorum presidency and relief society presidency. And everybody does so much to help and support with the youth. And so I really have been it's as designed, I've really been able to just spend a lot of time with the youth. So take me to, like, the typical Sunday morning. You wake up and obviously there's, you know, scheduled meetings and appointments and things. But, like, how do you how
do you show up in that calling? I mean, what how do you keep your mindset straight? Or I mean, how do you walk into that day? Because it can kinda just swallow you whole at times. Yeah. So Yeah. Does anything come to mind with that? Yeah. I mean, this is kinda funny. On Saturday night, I start getting really I get worried that I wanna make sure I wake up. You know? I I never don't. I always wake up. Yeah. You never slept in? When the when the sun comes up, I feel like
I'm I'm up early without an alarm. But there's always that thing in the back of your head, like, what if I don't wake up? You know? So I'm always asking my wife to set her alarm, and I'll set my alarm. And so there is a little bit of anxiety going into Sunday night. I felt that in another calling as a seminary teacher down in California where it was, like, a Sunday night, I felt going into Monday was, like, oh my goodness. Like, this is
a lot. And sometimes looking at your day and the schedule and all the things you got ahead of you, it can get overwhelming. But sometimes I just say, gosh. I gotta do my best today and and get through this day if it looks like a hard day and then try to make the best of it. But that's really my approach is just to say, you know, I just wanna do my best. I wanna
give it all. You know, I wanna give it my all until I'm released so that I can look back and say I did everything that I could for the people that I served. Yeah. And that sort of is that benefit of knowing that there's a sunset to these callings saying, you know, in this period of time, I don't have to Yeah. I don't have to give it all in this way for 30 years or 40 years. But for 5, for 6, I could probably do that, you know, and Yeah. Really make a difference until I pass the baton. Right.
Right. Yeah. That's awesome. Now I would, like, classify you as, like, you're, what what's the word? Like, a thought leader in the world of the Latter day Saint world. You're quite involved with Faith Matters. Mhmm. They also record their podcast just around the corner there. Yeah. And you're involved with the Millennial Choir and Orchestras. Mhmm. Maybe just give us a if people don't know what that is, give us the the pitch or the explanation of that. Yeah.
I, you're talking for Millennial Choirs and Orchestras or okay. Yeah. They are, you know, an an organization that does things that I could never even dream of doing. They make the most amazing music. And a lot of most of the organization are members of the church. And so they are creating music that youth from age 4 all the way up to professional musicians and a professional orchestra are coming together and and playing arrangements of hymns and composed music.
Some of the best I've ever heard in the entire world. Incredible. And they come together, and they their testimonies grow together through music. And, well, actually, I wrote a book about this concept. And I'm not a musician, so it took me a long time to just try to, you know, delve into that world. But it's just so neat to watch. I feel like I watch the atonement manifest itself as they get onto a stage because you've got people, all these different instruments playing a different sound.
You know, if they all played independently of one another, it just wouldn't sound good. Mhmm. And then they all come together and they they play this movies or they play this score and and it comes together and it's just magical. So I've loved that and loved the mission that they have as they as they help strengthen testimonies. Right. Yeah. And I've had opportunity to attend
a concert. It is it's impactful. It's and leaving that, I really feel like, you know, it's one of those things, like, there's always the popular musical that that tours. Right? Like, right now, you know, Hamlet if Hamlet comes to your town, like, hey, you know, spend the money or Yeah. Make sure you get there and see it. This is like if you ever have the opportunity to experience millennial choir and orchestras, like, get there. Like, make it a priority because it is impactful when
you experience it. For sure. Yeah. Or even the point that I my kids have joined the choir. It's like, you just wanna be a part of that spirit of it. And so Yeah. Whenever you Where's it, like, a good home base for to learn more about them and their tours and things? That's just millennial.org. Perfect. Yeah. Millennial.org. You could link to it. And your book's available there too about about their journey and
their their history. It's cool. Yeah. Awesome. So going back to that, my point being is that, like, you're my type of leader where I just love the person who sits back and says, how can I just make this better? You know, whether it's being part of this or that organization or even how I lead a ward. Right? And and so I'm, like, intrigued to listen to listen to learn about your experience as a bishop and things you've done. I don't know how long ago you wrote this article and we'll link to
it. It's on your on your, website, the the future of missionary work. How long ago did you write that? It was probably 6 months ago. Okay. Yeah. So what's the story? Like, you woke up one day and you're like, I've got you gotta get these ideas out? Or how did this come about? Yeah. Yeah. It was kind of a kind of an organic thing that took place. You know, in our area, there's not a ton of what you would
say traditional missionary work going on. Right? It's not like a and I'll just try to speak openly about, you know, it's it's not like what you would consider, like, a high baptizing area. Mhmm. And so missionaries, when they go there, they often have a hard time because there's, you know, people moving in and out. There's a lot of tourism. And it's
there's just a hard time for missionaries. And then those missionaries and, again, you know, they're great missionaries trying to keep the mission rules. There are mission rules that they need to to abide by. And and they do. And what happens is a lot of the people in their area, they've moved from other places where the missionaries were traditionally in their house on a regular basis. They might have been
having dinner with them. They might be having a discussion with them, sharing a scripture with them. And what I found was that there were a lot of our members missed that interaction because the missionaries bring a special spirit into a home. Mhmm. You know, it's just different. No matter what missionary it is, they they
walk in and it's just different. And it was always special to my kids, and I know it's been special to other youth to have the missionaries walk into their home and just spend some time with them. And so, you know, because of various you know, how things are in various areas, missionaries aren't really allowed to spend a whole lot of time in the homes of members unless they bring, you know, a friend, formerly an investigator, into the home to be taught.
And and so it makes because that's not always an option because that doesn't happen all that often, they haven't been able to have those interactions. And so what we've done is we've created sort of a, like, a mini mission in our ward where we've called most of our older youth, both young men and young women, to be missionaries to be ward missionaries in our area. And they would meet with our ward mission leader. And our ward mission leader is an amazing teacher.
And he would sort of act as sort of like a mini, you know, mission leader in this mission. And instead of just a traditional word mission leader that often doesn't get enough time to do missionary work and and spend that time doing what that calling is supposed to do. He's actually working with these youth. They spend some time going over a lesson, learning the discussions, learning lessons. And then they go out into the ward.
They go to families that are maybe they have primary age kids or maybe they have youth aged kids. We start there and then we go out from there. And they go out 2 by 2. And they go into the homes of the members of our ward as missionaries, and they share a lesson as if they were giving a missionary lesson. And the result, the benefit has been twofold.
The members of our word have felt that spirit come back into their home by having missionaries come in and share these basic but powerful and simple truths of both the plan of salvation and the restoration. And then, secondly, these ward missionaries who are prospective missionaries, they're getting almost like a year round mission prep course, but they're getting in the trenches work. Yeah. Where they're going into these homes, they're expected to give a lesson. They do give a lesson.
And they get the feeling of knocking on a door, waiting for someone to answer, the anxiety of walking in into the home and saying a prayer, and then working hand in hand with their companion to give a lesson to these members. Wow. And sometimes it takes 15 minutes. Sometimes it takes a half an hour. Sometimes there's more questions and and more discussion, but it gives the ability for these prospective missionaries, these young men and young women to be entrenched in missionary work before
they even hit the field. And I've gotten feedback from some of our youth where they're saying, bishop, this is so cool. Like, I thought when I got on my mission, I was gonna be able to talk to anybody. I didn't think I could do it. And now they're saying, oh my gosh. I just had this amazing discussion with this family, and they're so excited. And I felt like I could articulate myself, and I learned
the scripture, and I used this. And and to see their the excitement on their faces and then to also see the members of the ward get excited by having those youth come into their home. It breeds connection in the ward, number 1. You know, that's that's biggest problem I I hear is a lack of connection nowadays. Mhmm. When they're in this Internet age where everybody's connected, a lack of connection. So we're fixing that between the youth and the adults and the families.
But at the same time, we're also helping them be able to become missionaries before they even hit the field. So Yeah. It's been a really incredible experience to do that. And we're trying to help them to feel the impact of service too and to know that they can be successful even if they don't go into their mission and have a bunch of baptisms, that there's different nuances and different missions all throughout the
world. And to work on themselves and to serve their companions and to serve the families in the area and to to build the reputation of the church and leave a mark on whatever area they go to regardless of the numbers that they output. Right? We want the focus to be focused on the number of people that you serve versus, you know, some of the other metrics that are are very important and they represent people. But sometimes it's hard to control,
you know, some of those other metrics. You can always control how many people you serve Yeah. Because they're everywhere. Let let's get into the nuts and bolts of it as far as so you have a a word mission leader. Uh-huh. And he is sort of the leader of this Yeah. Of the word missionaries. Of the word missionaries. Okay. It's pretty Yeah. Yeah. Similar how it's always been started. Right. Right. Similar
as a not changing anything. So and these word missionaries, they are they always involve youth or or the it's a mix of everybody? They involve youth and a few adults. Okay. But primarily youth. Okay. Yeah. So 2 youth, would set an appointment with someone in the ward to just stop by for a visit and teach a lesson. Yeah. Is that the idea? They spend some time after church right now spending about 20 minutes going over the lesson that they would teach out of preach my gospel
on that given day. Yeah. And then they make an assignment of, like, okay. This family needs a visit, and then they'll And that family's are has already been approached and expecting them to show up. Right? Word mission leader kind of sets up the appointments, and then they send them to where they're gonna go. Now and this isn't a like, an MTC role play that we did. Like, these you they're just going in. They're not pretending that they're No. Investigating the church. They're
just No. They're learning. They're they're real discussions in these homes because, I mean, the odds are there's a lot of primary age kids and maybe even some youth and and probably even some adults that it's been a really long time before someone has gone into their home as a missionary and born a sincere testimony
Mhmm. About aspects of the plan of salvation and aspects of the restoration and their their testimonies of those events surrounding those big principles and historical, you know, monumental events that we have in our life. It's been a really long time since they've heard that. Yep. And it it's powerful. So with these youth that are involved, are they being sustained as ward missionaries then to do this? Or is it just sort of part of the youth experience?
They're sustained as ward missionaries. Okay. Yeah. We call them as ward missionaries. We we sustain them in sacrament meeting, and they're set apart as word missionaries. And it's as close to a mission that I think they can get to before they hit the MTC, but, man, they're gonna be so prepared. Yeah. Yeah. Just the the simple nuances of these things that I remember, you know, it's it's hard to train for because, you know, I'm seeing that someone's how do I small talk? You know, how do
I Yeah. How do I warm up the conversation and actually jump into the Right. To the content? Yeah. Yeah. How do they switch between, you know, who how do they make it a natural flow between conversation? How do they answer questions properly? How do they respond if they don't know the answer to the question? How do they respond if they feel challenged or embarrassed or whatever? I mean, there's so many different details, things that you don't learn until you're
a year out in your mission. So the goal is when they hit their mission, they can hit the ground running. Yeah. Because, you know, 3 weeks, a week or so in the MTC, it's great.
But having that real world experience of teaching and feeling the anxiety that is associated with going into these new situations, learning how to deal with that, I think, is just critical to their success and and to their to the longevity of their testimonies that they can come home from their mission feeling valuable, feeling like they did something worthwhile, and that they become more converted themselves and that they help their companions and others. That's
the goal. Yeah. Anything to say as far where does the the content or the lessons come from? Does that the word mission leaders simply come up with random topics? Is he using Right out of my gospel. Okay. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. They study how to preach my gospel. They have the lesson. They review it. They look at relevant scriptures how to preach my gospel that apply to the lesson. And then they go in and and they deliver their message. And then they either the family has some questions or they
don't. And and they go from there. Yeah. So these could last 30 minutes to an hour Yeah. Type of thing and Yeah. A nice visit. So is it connected at all with the ministering effort, or is that just sort of its own thing going on? Yeah. I mean, the elders quorum and and relief society, they really do a great job with, you know, managing that for the word Yep. And leading out there. I definitely believe this is a form of ministering. Actually, I think it's one of the most
effective forms that because people are excited. Families, adults, they're really excited when 2 young men or 2 young women ages 16 to 18 come knocking at their door and saying, hey, Can we just share a message? People are a lot more receptive to that. Yeah. You know, if it's somebody else, this is their neighbor coming trying to do their ministry. And, obviously, we we hope that everyone's doing their ministry and then coming in do
doing their best on that. Right. But it's a different feeling when a couple 16, 18 year olds knock on your door and say, we just wanna share something with you. Yeah. Yeah. And and I imagine I mean, I love these things because in the long term, it just shifts the culture of the ward completely where a youth that's engaging with another you know, a couple in the ward that maybe they are not youth leaders, but they suddenly have this connection. They'll see in the hallway like,
oh, hey. How are you? Like, there's that connection that's already established because of this simple thing. Exactly. Yeah. When words get shifted and shaken up and boundaries get changed and and even just if not, one of the biggest things that I hear as sort of, you know, I don't know necessarily a complaint, but just feedback is that it feels like oftentimes the word can be disconnected.
Right? But that's because we live in an internet age, a video game age, a stay home and don't bother me age, don't knock on my door, make sure you text me before you come over. I mean, all that stuff that was never, you know, relevant back in the day. We wouldn't even imagine what we'd be living in right now. But a lot of isolation, a lot of those things that take place that I think is causing a lot of the the issues that we see our youth facing today. A lot of those things are fixed.
And we tried to create these different ways to get the adults, not just the youth leaders, but all of the the adults throughout the entire ward to be invested in the future of these of these kids, invested in the future of these youth. So when they see them in the hallway, like you said, they're gonna be like, hey. What's up? You know, like, as that happens over time, they're gonna start forming these these bonds and this support and this love for one another.
I think one of the most important things that youth can do is to not write off the old people, you know. Like, I think that's the worst thing you could ever do. There's so many people that they might consider old that you're, like, if you knew how much experience they have and how much they have to offer, and if you just could know that and listen to them for a little bit, it'd be so much better for the youth.
And so we were really trying to create that even on Sundays where we we bring some of the youth into elders quorum or relief society, and we have them do kind of a spotlight on their parents and vice versa. Oh, cool. So they they can you know, at the beginning of class or quorum, and they can begin to learn the names and the faces and the backgrounds and the interests and the hobbies and all those things. So there's just this revolving support that takes place on a regular basis.
Yeah. That's what really the biggest thing that we've tried to solve for is creating connections, meaningful connections that last a lifetime. So that anytime anybody walks in those doors at church, they're like, I'm home. I, like, I wanna be here. These are my people, you know. Yeah. So all youth are called is word mission missionaries. Is that fair to say? Most of them and the 16, 18 year old group. Okay. Yeah. So you're focused on the 16, 18
year old group with this. And then the award mission leaders simply just rotating through those companionships and every few weeks, you know, an individual youth may go on a visit every few weeks or once a month or They go every week. Oh, they go everybody goes every week. Okay. This is helpful. They switch companionships. They will they might teach a family in in succession for 3 or 4 lessons, and then they'll switch. And so they'll learn
how to work with different companions Interesting. And they'll they'll learn how to visit the same home multiple Mhmm. In sequential weeks. Yeah. Okay. Nice. Very good. Very good. And then it's not I mean, this is more of a preparation experience. It's not like you're seeing baptisms coming out. That's not the point per se is you to That's not the point, but it is. I always love, you know, this analogy of, like, using sports, for instance. I mean, Karl Malone,
one of the all time leading scorers. Right. Would he have been that way without John Stockton? Probably not. Right? The the all time assist leader. Right? And so I think we don't give enough credit to the assists, and I think it actually comes back to bite us when we are only focused on reaping the harvest instead of planting the seeds. Mhmm. And so I look at it as a long term vision of if we strengthen our youth, they're gonna do better on their missions.
If we strengthen imagine there's a family and you'd like to believe that every single family has come follow me going on in their homes every week and everyone's sitting in a circle and singing hymns and everything's perfect. Like, the ideal situation of what we would hope. But, honestly, you know, I mean, is that really happening? Nobody knows that for sure. We don't have any way of measuring that. But I think it's possible that that's not always happening.
And so, imagine how many primary age kids or youth aren't being taught those things. They might not have missionaries in their home, so they're not getting that example. They're not feeling that spirit. And so, imagine one of our youth ward missionaries goes in there. Mine and my wife's kids, they would look up to the missionaries coming in. They're like, oh my gosh. The missionaries are here. You know? It's like, wow. Missionaries.
And so, that's really the goal is is to get them to say, man, that's I wanna be like them. I wanna I wanna serve God, you know. I wanna do do those things. And and that's really the goal is to get them is to see the long term versus the short term. When it's short term, like, oh, how many baptisms we have in our area? Well, we didn't have any of this month or this this transfer or in 3 months or 6 months. Oh my gosh. Like, what's everybody doing wrong? It might just be the nuance of a different
area. I mean, you could have one area that baptizes a lot. But then you could have one area that doesn't baptize a lot, but they plant a lot of seeds. Mhmm. Maybe they do really good at teaching their youth how to be great missionaries and those missionaries go out into the world. And then they baptize people. So I think seeing the whole picture and not just defining success by a baptism, defining success by how committed is somebody's heart to God and how willing are they to serve in whatever
capacity and whatever area they come to. It might just be 1. I mean, I love the Abinadi concept. Right? He goes into this place. He might have thought he was a complete failure as he burns. Mhmm. You know? And yet, there was this one one of the priests Mhmm. Sitting there that's like, oh my gosh. I gotta change. And then what happens to him? Alma goes, and then it starts this whole line. You know? So Abinadi might have gone down thinking he was a failure. And maybe the the leader in his
area went, you didn't have any baptisms. You know? You don't have any converts. Well, actually, yeah. I planted a seed. My example, I didn't get to see it. But, you know, that changed the course of the book of Mormon. Yeah. I mean, draw a diagram of the effect of Abinadi. It's unbelievable.
Yeah. And so I think that's really what I've hoped to try to do is, obviously, if there's people in the area, we wanna teach them, we wanna find them, we wanna do our best to be a good example and and find those people that are ready. But what I'm focused on is how to prepare the, you know, the Abinadis that are gonna go out there and and change the world one one little interaction at a time. Yep. You know? Yeah. That's powerful. Is there any connection, interaction with
the full time missionaries in your area? Now in Utah, one commandment should may be assigned to multiple stakes. So Yeah. It's not like we see him every week, you know, but is there any connection point there, or this is mainly just focused on these word missionary experiences? Yeah. There's connection with the word with the full time missionaries, but you're exactly right. In Utah, it's a little bit different because oftentimes, companionships are split between multiple stakes.
You might see them, you know, once every 6 weeks in your area or in your ward. And so the ward isn't able to develop as much of a of a relationship with those missionaries. But when we do see them, we try to integrate them, you know, at mission prep or or things like that. We try to integrate them. There was a time where they were spending a little bit of time in our stake kind of doing some training with our youth, with our our youth presidencies and word missionaries. But there's not a ton of
interaction. But that's because they're they're spread thin. And they also have you know, they have to be out proselyting, and it's hard for them to get into members' homes when they're busy, obviously, doing important
stuff. But I'm certain that the members miss the members that have moved from other areas, from California, from Arizona, from East Coast, from wherever, they do miss that regular interaction with the full time missionaries and the ability to build a relationship of trust with those members and the missionaries so that they feel more comfortable referring people. Yeah. Right?
And and this is such a, like, an upstream approach where it's not necessarily maybe in your specific war that it's, you know, having this huge shift in, like, missionary work or whatever. But when these young men and women go on and serve their own mission, I mean, those mission presidents probably wanna kiss you. You know? You're just like, thank you for, like, taking the time to prepare them so that when they get out here, they can hit the ground running
and be a more effective missionary. And then those badges I mean, it's that's so so impactful thing about that. Your ward in Utah is impacting wards in Peru and, you know, in Europe and, you know, all over the world because of this. That is the exact point. Yeah. Because and sometimes in areas you feel like, oh, man, the the missionary work is stalled. And I know somebody somewhere is gonna be back. Well, you just need to do better missionary work. And maybe that's that's true. Sure. That's
true. I I'm totally open to that. But at the same time, until we figure that out, I do know what we have sitting right in front of us. Yeah. Which are a bunch of prospective missionaries that also in their life need to feel the impact of bearing their own testimonies and discovering their own testimonies and being out there with people and teaching them.
And I honestly believe that there are some there are some people out there in our ward or in our area that need to hear the testimony of these 16 to 18 year olds deliver the message of the restoration, the first vision, the impact of the book of Mormon, the atonement of Christ. They need to hear that message. They're members of the church. And they may be wavering. They may be sitting on the fence. They
may be struggling. And they need to hear that testimony even more than somebody that is considered an investigator or non member friend, whatever that might be. I think of those people that how badly they need that in their home. Yeah. Yeah. My mind goes to the you know, I hear this this story a lot where, you know, I got in the MTC and I started learning about Joseph Smith and the book of Mormon. I kinda got the had this epiphany that I better really reflect on. Do I believe this? Because I'm
gonna teach it. Do I believe this? Right? So you're almost moving that up where just going through this exercise of articulating the story of Joseph Smith or, you know, these principles that they teach, they have to it kinda forces us in a place where, like, I can't just say this. Like Yeah. I I'm gonna engage in that journey and really know for myself Yeah. And gain that
testimony. It's powerful. I've watched them go from not really thinking about any of this stuff to what scripture can I use in this situation? Uh-huh. How can I be more effective in teaching this principle? What chain of scriptures can I put together that helps me articulate this concept better? I mean, to watch their minds be invested in it is something that doesn't happen to missionaries until almost a year into their
mission. Yeah. And sometimes ever. And so, being able to do this with them in a controlled environment, to work with them and prepare them is, you know, outside of a of a mission prep class, which is usually just a few weeks and, you know, hoping that they're getting that at home. It's just been probably the most exciting thing that I've seen while serving in this capacity. I'm thinking about maybe those parents or youth
leaders listening or like, Greg, listen. I'm like, I'm lucky enough to drag them to seminary and, like, duct tape them in their seat. Yeah. And, like, I mean, there's a seminary and, like, duct tape them in their seat. Yeah. And, like, I mean, there's natural resistance with all teenagers, really all humans, but this you know, the resistance of I don't I don't wanna do that. You know? Has that come up or I how did anything you would say to that?
I would. I would say that I think that we live in an age where we don't expect enough out of the youth. I think that we live in an age where they're actually impacted by that inability of us to expect more from them and hold them to a higher bar and say, you've been set apart as a word missionary. And this is not some arbitrary calling. It's not some some waste of time that you're going you're going into a home where somebody genuinely needs to hear you
say what you're gonna say. And they genuinely need to feel the spirit that you're gonna bring and the impact that you make could be life changing for them, for their family, for their desire to serve a future mission, for the people that are impacted. So when you go into this, we wanna make sure they understand how important it is. This is a calling. Most youth don't have callings outside of their youth presidencies. This is a calling in the ward.
And you've been called to go out and preach the gospel to our ward members and to the primary age kids and to the youth. And, so that's what I would say to that. That's helpful. I really do believe that much of the problems that we see nowadays is because of adults not expecting enough out of the youth. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. That's really helpful. So, you know, 4 years and being bishop, how long has your word been doing this effort? It's been about 2
years now. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And at this point, I mean, obviously, it's not something that you're coordinating. I mean, the word mission leader is doing that. And so, I mean, at this point, you know, the word mission leader is doing it. If somebody turns 16, a youth, you know, you're making sure that Yeah. Calling gets extended and then there it's it's happening. Yeah. Yeah. We're identifying the youth, you know. Some may not be in a position where they can or or have a desire to do
that. So we're we're trying to stay close to make sure that, we extend that call, you know, that there's inspiration involved and that there's, you know, that it's relevant to their situation, that it's a good thing for them, that it they're capable of doing that. And so we try to stay real close to them to make sure that that that's a good thing for them. Yeah. That's awesome. I
I'm really excited about this. I'm just again, just such a simple approach to really shift culture, you know, infuse the word with some energy around that, build community, connection. I mean, it's just there were so many bases. So Yeah. Any other nuance or part of this that, we haven't touched on or be helpful to explain? We talked a little bit about this, but trying to help them understand. You talked about Abinadi, but
we also talk about Ammon a lot. Where do you remember when Ammon goes to this place? I mean, he his background was tough. They're they're going on what was it, like, a 14 year mission that ultimately ended up being about a 14 year mission before they saw each other again. And the attitude of Ammon going to an area, And he says, I'm here to serve. Like and he says, I'll be here for as long as it takes. And then he remember he says, perhaps even
until the day I die. I wanna dwell among these people and I wanna serve them. And what made Amin such a powerful missionary was that he didn't go in people are smart nowadays. I mean, they were smart in all days, I'm sure. Yeah. But nowadays, with the Internet and so much exposure to everything, you know, that every religion does and everything that we do.
Ammon went in there, and I think that's the way we need to approach missionary work is that we need to go in there and not have anybody feel like we have a specific agenda of I just wanna come in here and I'll be your friend if I can baptize you. And if not, then good luck. You know? That we go in there with the attitude of, you know, I'd love to to teach you. I'd love to share our message with you.
But I also want to serve you and help you in whatever way I possibly can and bring you closer to Christ through my actions and through your actions. And to think of it that way, and I think it will open more doors if the ultimate aim is to be able to to teach somebody and have them convert to Christ and to the gospel. I think that those doors get opened a lot faster and in greater abundance if we go into it as a servant, as a service person.
I mean, I I would love and hope for the day someday where all missionaries are considered service missionaries. Mhmm. There's no proselytizing missionaries and then service missionaries. And if you get called as a service missionary, as as much as people tell you that you shouldn't feel bad, they're still like, oh, well stigma's still there. Shit. Like, gosh. Is am I, like, second rate because I didn't serve a proselytic mission?
I wish every single missionary was considered a service missionary. And maybe in their respective areas, they have different roles, and they have different
commissions to go do. But every one of them goes out into the community, improves the reputation of the church, leaves a positive mark on whatever community they go to, builds trust among all the people of all different backgrounds just by serving and loving and not asking questions and doing that so well that all the people in that area want to ask those missionaries, who are you guys? What is your message? Right. You know? Yeah. And then that's when somebody opens up and says, okay.
Now I'm receptive to what you have to say. Yeah. Yeah. And it So we're trying to we're trying to teach that as well. I hope that that's okay. I don't I don't know. No. It just feels it feels scriptural to me, and it feels it feels right. Yeah. I appreciate that because the and I mean, I hate to take it to a secular example, but, like, is both of us know that, like, there's nothing more powerful in my professional success than my network.
And that network has come from just casual interactions with people, where they gave me a time to connect with them human to human and even serve them or just let them know who I am and see me as a human, and service has such a way to do that Yeah. That it builds that network that it would easily stimulate the baptism number, you know. Oh, absolutely.
That's the the, you know, bottom line of it as we build those relationships and people see us for who we are and the people that we're striving to be more and more Christ like. Yeah. I absolutely believe that. Yeah. I think if we thought that way in continuity across the entire world, we might see a small little dip, but then we'd see an explosion Yeah. Of converts. Right. Because people will just say, I want that. Mhmm. I want to be there. I want to be with those people.
They serve. They're happy. They're they stand out. Yeah. And then that's when they ask the questions now. How can I be a part of this? It's exactly the same thing Lamoni said. Right? Mhmm. Where where is Amelie? He's feeding your horses. Of course, he is. He's always serving. Uh-huh. Bring him here. What are you all about? Well, okay. Now that you asked,
I'll I'll tell you. Yep. And the minute he told him, it wasn't what Ammon said, it was the power of years of service and building a reputation of a servant and of service and love that was the converting power for King Lamona. It wasn't just Ammon's words. Ammon's words wouldn't have meant anything if he came into the area and said, Lamona, you need to repent. Oh, Ammon would have got thrown in prison, you know, or whatever. Right. Even worse. Thrown out of town and Yeah.
And so that that principle is of seeing things in the long term. Like, I know we're hastening the work, but I don't see any other greater work to do. I don't see any other greater way to hasten the work than by serving people and loving them until they're ready. They'll ask questions when they're ready. Right. And so getting to that point is, I think So going back to this effort in your ward, is there a way that you highlight the service principle or work that in there?
Or how does that fit in? We talk about it. Definitely, I talk about it with the youth. Our ward missionaries oriented that way. He's so good. He's a great such a great teacher. We have another couple in there, brother and a sister that are also amazing at that and are great teachers and illustrate those concepts of teaching and service and all that. So while they're both teaching messages out of preach my gospel, they're also learning concepts of of service and Yeah. The
long term. Cool. Awesome. Well, any other point principle concept that we missed? Or I don't think so. Alright. I think that's it's it's a pretty helpful. It's pretty straightforward concept. I don't think it's, you know, ingenious in any well in any way. There's already a a word missionary program there. Right. Yeah. It's just like, sometimes what's happening in the word missionary program, you know? And and I think it gets pretty
stale and pretty stagnant. And so I thought, man, that's really a way to energize that by putting and get the most out of it. And, actually, it's become one of the most exciting things in our world. Especially for, like, the really saturated areas of Idaho, Utah, Arizona where Yeah. You know, the we call these war mission leaders and, you know, they wanna do a good job. But Yeah. At the same time, it's like especially in Utah, it's like, hey. We got 10 more 10 homes in our ward. Yeah. They're
our members. They've heard it. They get it. You know? And what else do I do? You know, they kind of can feel dismissed a little bit. So what a great way to to help them be a part of an effort, a movement in the ward that's really energizing. Yeah. Yeah. I think some of the greatest missionary work and what we might say is the greatest harvest are by people whose names are already on the records of the church. Yeah. For sure.
Well, is there any way you would point people if they wanna read more of your writing, your books, or I mean, is that a focus right now? Or No. No. Okay. Alright. I just I mean, you gotta go to my blog, but it's it's Yeah. And you you did I will reference this. The future of missionary work will reference that, which is on your blog. Yeah. Right? Yeah. We'll plug Faith Matters, of course. We'll plug millennial choir and orchestra. So there's just so many awesome efforts out
there that people need to be here. So Alright. Last question I have for you, Greg, is as you reflect on your time as a bishop Yeah. How has being a leader helped you become a better follower of Jesus Christ? That's a great question. So I think the greatest leader ever was Jesus Christ. And everything that I do, whether it's the most important work for me, which is being a good husband and a good father, And then, obviously, fulfilling these callings, trying to magnify those callings.
I feel Jesus Christ has to be the center of each of those of those roles. In any way that I lead, I wanna lead the way that he led. And so, I think, as I push myself and as I try to learn and observe, I also think that the best leaders are actually the best followers in the way that they choose the right people to follow. And they become a greatest hits of the people around them. They take the good and apply it. They take the bad and discard it until they become this greatest hits of
these people around them. I think in doing that and then studying the teachings of Christ and trying to live the way that he lived, I've tried to lead that way and then by leading that way, I think it it deepens my conviction because I see the results and and see the joy that comes from that. It deepens my love and devotion to the savior. So I think in the process of leading, I'm becoming a better follower, I hope at least. The end. That's it for this Leading Saints
episode. I encourage you to check out some of the most popular episodes of the podcast that we list at the bottom of the show notes. If you haven't listened to all of those, do so now. Remember, go listen to Dan Duckworth's presentation about youth mentorship by visiting leading saints.org/14. It came as a result of the position of leadership which was imposed upon us by the God of heaven who brought forth a restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
When the declaration was made concerning the only and only true and living church upon the face of the earth, we were immediately put in a position of loneliness, the loneliness of leadership from which we cannot shrink nor run away, and to which we must face up with boldness and courage and ability.