- - Have you ever heard of Scrupulosity? This is a mental health concern that is impacting more latter day Saints than you think. Scrupulosity is religious obsessive compulsive disorder where individuals are hyper obsessed about their worthiness and repentance. Sam Baxter, a former bishop, sat down with me to talk about his lifelong struggle with Scrupulosity and how he got treatment.
You can watch this interview for free in the Mentally Healthy Saints Library by going to leading saints.org/fourteen. This gets you 14 days free access to Sam Baxter's interview about Scru and 25 plus other interviews about ministering to those who struggle with mental health. The content is priceless for leaders. So visit leading saints.org/fourteen for free access. Before we jump into the content of this episode, I kind of feel it's important that I introduce myself.
Now, many of you have been around a long time. You're well familiar with my voice and the the with Leading Saints as an organization. But if you're not, well, my name is Kurt Frankham, and I am the executive Director of Leading Saints and the podcast host. Now, leading Saints is a nonprofit organization dedicated, helping latter-Day Saints be better prepared to lead. And we do that through well content creation, like this podcast and many other [email protected].
And, uh, we don't act like we have all the answers or, uh, know exactly what a leader should do or not do, but we like to explore the concepts of leadership, the science of leadership, what people are researching about leadership, and see how we can apply them to a latter day Saint World. So here we go. Hey, everyone. I'm excited to invite back Gayly Condi to the podcast. Uh, GayLynn and I are great friends, and she's a content creator herself.
So we're often sharing notes, connecting, giving each other support. And for a long time, she's been sharing about this PMG experience she does in her home. Now, PMG stands for Preach My Gospel, where, uh, this is all youth led and it started with her son, uh, years before he served his mission later with her, her daughter. And they use the Preach My Gospel Manual in a way of gathering youth, having really real vulnerable conversations that build faith, uh, that stimulate testimony.
And they've had remarkable miracles and things come, come from this. And so she gets so many messages from people around the world asking, how do you do this? I if I wanna start my own group like this, inviting people over to study, preach my gospel, what does that look like? And so, uh, I wanted to get her in here and go through all the details. And this will be def definitely inspiring. You'll probably find reasons to, uh, start your own, uh, PMG preach my Gospel experience with youth.
And again, it's just a one more idea in your library to possibly engage the youth and, and stimulate faith there. So, uh, she'll go through all the, the format how to, how to encourage youth to be involved, the type of youth to lead out, um, how long they go, uh, you know, and how to just make a place where all are welcome and, uh, to stimulate faith. So here's my interview with Gain Con.
I am here with my friend Gaya Lynn Condi, how are you? I'm - So good, - You know, now I don't even have to think about your name, I just say it. I can, like, that's how long we've known each other. - I watched you and I was like, there should be a little award. Like I hand out coins. Yeah. When you get to a point where you don't have to pause. That's right. This is the special Gaina Lynn Coin. That's - Right. I'm, I'm in the club. Yeah. So how do people know you? I what? I don't know.
You're like, you're just the, uh, the Ryan Seacrest of Mormon, Dom . You just show up in everything. Can - I say that's the greatest analogy and compliment I'll mosh together? You know what's funny you ask that is, I think some people know me from very specific things. Like I think the Ryan Seacrest Analogy's Perfect. Some people only know him on American Idol, but Uhhuh, all of a sudden he's guest hosting, and now he's hosting Wheel All Fortune. Did you know that? Oh, yeah, - That's right.
Yeah. He's in new and he's on the, uh, the Regis show, whatever used - To be that one. Yeah. He's not on. Yeah. Then he got kicked off that. Yeah. Yeah. I don't follow Kelly's husband. Mark is now co-hosting. - Where are we going with this podcast? Well, . - Anyway, so yeah, I think people know me from - You're an author. I think that's like an - The core of who you're an author. I I have 18 books published at this point, and I've hosted four different weekly shows.
I had most recently, a four year, almost four season stint of a Komi podcast. Yeah. Real talk. And then I'm a speaker and I do local tv. So some people only know me from that. Yeah. And I've had the chance to speak kind of all over the world the last decade. And some people only know me from what they call the Green Dress Ted Talk. And it's not actually a Ted Talk. It's the whole, because the church did it. It's the Hope Works Talk. Yeah. Hope works.
And I'm wearing a green dress and I'm talking about my sister Meg, who died by suicide. So I I have done a lot on Yeah. Mental health front, so Yeah. Yeah. And I'm a new empty nester and a new sourdough bread baker. That's - Right. Yeah. Love it. Yeah. Now we, there's sort of this behind the scenes, there's sort of this support group that happens that most people don't realize is happening.
Like all these content producers who just need a shoulder to cry every once in a while, - Kurt Kurt's shoulder is wet and it's because of me. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Kurt. Kurt, I don't feel like you call me to cry. I think I call you to cry. - Well, I, I'm a man, so I do it differently. Right. It's true. - He asked me how I'm doing and then three hours later
I'm like, so how are you, Kurt? No. - You know, but as in these discussions, it's fun to hear different things you're doing and trying. And you've had this, what do you call the preach My gospel gathering? What do you call it? - Well, that's exactly, we call it PMG and pmg, and it stands for Preach My Gospel. And I kind of feel like I'm indebted to you.
I mean, I did bring you sourdough today, but I, I feel indebted that we're taping this because over the last 10 years, our family has hosted a PMG group in our home. And then every time I post anything about it on social media, I am inundated with DMS about what is the group about? How did we start it? How should they start it? They wanna do it all the things. And I have like, I have carpal tunnel from like DMing people back of like, don't do this, do this, don't do this.
And I am so grateful to leading Saints, because now I'm just gonna send them this episode. That's - Right. We can get it on the record here. Yes. We're gonna answer all the questions. It's - Gonna be so great. And, and I'm, I'm just so happy. But you're gonna have to like, I'm gonna have to consciously pause because I could talk about PMG. Yeah. All - The time. So where, where does the this story begin? - So it begins, I have a 26-year-old.
So, uh, 10 years ago, my husband and I were called to serve . Do you like that? Called to serve as the 16 to 18-year-old Sunday school teachers. Okay. Now let's do tweet - Calling, by the way. - Yes. It's the best. We had 26 of them. Oh, - Wow. Little seminary class there. - Right. And let's do a little timestamp to our church. Mm-Hmm. . It's pre-phone calls for the mission. Mm-Hmm. . It's pre preach my gospel slash preach my gospel's out.
But it's the come follow me has kind of started to be launched. Mm-Hmm. . Just that idea of like, how do we have youth lead more out and teach lessons? Mm-Hmm. . It's all before that. And it's right around the time we're new in this area, our son's in the class, so I'm like, that's not gonna go great. Like, does he really wanna go to Sunday school and have his parents come on, mom?
Right. Yeah. Exactly. It actually was really healing because he watched all other 25-year-old teenagers think we're cool and it forced him to be like, maybe my parents aren't totally lame . Um, but this is also during the time my sister dies by suicide. And I specifically remember as my husband and I would prep for lessons. Like this is when teachers were like always trying to problem solve the phone coming out. Oh, yeah. During lessons. Mm-Hmm. .
I think there are still teachers that are freaked out about that. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna just say, this is extra for our topic. Let it go. All of our Embrace it. Embrace it. All of our scriptures are there. You have kids that are a DD and maybe they're hearing, I brought crayons, so I would like bring old school handouts and, and paper and let some of the kids and some of the phones went down for that reason.
But I didn't care because I felt like if we were having an honest, authentic conversation, the kids would like, wanna be there and be a part of it. Mm-Hmm. . So one of the things, and I think I can say this on your show, like Sex and Jesus, it would come up regularly Wow. In the same conversation because 16 to 18 year olds, they're gonna notice if that's what you're gonna talk about, because that's what they're talking about and thinking about.
And their music is about, and all the things are about. Mm-Hmm. . And I remember one Sunday thinking, uh, how are we gonna address addiction? Because I knew it was happening for some of our kids, especially with porn. And, um, I wanted it to be really neutral. And this plays into PMG because I decided to have a code word. So it started in the Sunday school class with these 26 kids. And it was addicted to broccoli. And so that was our code word for pornography.
For pornography, or any addiction. It covered any addiction. Okay. And it just neutralized it. And so the kids would, in normal conversation around scripture and principles of the gospel and teachings of the lesson, if we were talking about whatever we were talking about that Sunday, they would introduce their addiction by saying, and I have an addiction to broccoli. And that could be all sorts of things. It could be anything. And, and we would always joke about it.
'cause you know, everyone's addicted to broccoli. Like it's a problem. It's an epidemic. People are eating vegetables like crazy. Interesting. Right. And it just neutralized it in a way. And so we started that there. Around this time, I think my son may have gone to some mission prep at someone's house. Honestly, I, I can't remember exactly, but I think he went to a mission prep, hosted another stake by some friend, and wanted to kind of start something similar.
So he and a couple of the kids in that Sunday school class decided we were gonna do one in our house. Hmm. And I honestly believe, Kurt, we built this house and finished the basement when we built it, which all the Utah families know what I That's a big deal. That is a big deal. Just so we could host BMG. We didn't even have much furniture, but it started with just a couple of those kids in that Sunday school class and grew.
And there were one, I think the record was, we had 65 kids one Sunday Wow. In our basement from all over the valley. Yeah. Not our stake, not our ward. And kind of the rule was this, um, we were gonna use the PMG manual, so the preach my gospel manual is the jumping off point. But we never became those Sunday school teachers that we still have in the church. I've seen them where they're like, we've got stuff we gotta get through. It was never that Mm-Hmm. .
And it was very youth led and broccoli addiction was gonna be part of it. Mm-Hmm. . And those were kind of our starting rules. And then I'm a hugger, everyone that knows me, and so everyone got a Mama Condi hug when they came over and the front door was open and kids would just show up. And it grew so quickly and so fast. And I think we can dive into why that is. Yeah. Um, that stake presidents from other stakes were calling our stake president wondering about this
gathering. Yeah. Now this - Is, what is it? Like what is it suspicious a little bit What's going on? - Honestly, because it was kind of like, why are teenagers literally leaving Sunday dinners or not wanting to go on vacation through Sundays, or not wanting to miss the Super Bowl? Uh, like, or willing to miss the Super Bowl. 'cause they didn't wanna miss P mg Mm-Hmm. like, it was not our calling. They were come as you want.
We've had non-members come, we've had transgender kids come, we've had kids that weren't going to church, but they wouldn't miss PMG. I mean, that's how authentic and Spirit directed it was. Mm-Hmm. and most stake leaderships were trying to figure out how to get their own mission prep classes to be attended. And they wanted to know why. And it was kind of open door policy. I'm like, any adults wanna come, they want to.
And we sometimes would have parents come, sometimes the full time missionaries will come and they still do. Mm-Hmm. . And what we really realized is that it was pre Come follow me. And so there wasn't this model of like home centered, church supported. Yeah. We were kind of on the front end of that. And I remember where I was driving, I was coming home from speaking with Brad Wilcox at an event, and the church announced this Come Follow Me program.
And I just, I wept because I felt like we were like five years into knowing why that is powerful. Why when you have youth that lead and when you have home focused church supported, it works. Yeah. - So the original idea that your son had is he experienced a mission prep type of experience - In someone's home. - In someone's home and wanted to do the same thing. So that's how preach my gospel sort of became the backbone as far as the the content Right. Of these gatherings.
- And our family had served a navu mission in two, two, uh, pageant seasons. And if you serve in a navu pageant, you become a part of a mission district and you study preach my gospel. Our family was one of the first, like PMG, the book, the manual had just been launched. And so our kids had kind of grown up studying that and they understood. And it's really great because it gives you some interfaith background. It gives you some mission life stuff.
But it gives you, what we like to say is we call it PMG, but it's life prep, not just mission prep. And we really made it clear. 'cause a lot of the kids that attend now and attended 10 years ago, over the last 10 years, weren't sure they wanted to serve a mission. Mm-Hmm. . So when you say, Hey, it's mission prep. Um, why we call it PMG is preach my gospel and I think the new version of Preach my gospel is even more this. Mm-Hmm. . But it gives you study skills.
It gives you, um, Christlike attribute sections. It gives you gospel doctrine topics. Right. But it's really just whoever's facilitating and it's always a youth, it's not us. Um, they start reading. We de depending on where people are at, the spirit is in charge of the discussion. So we pick a place we keep picking up in that place in PMG, but sometimes we get through one section of reading.
Mm-Hmm. . And then it goes off onto this tangent where kids are quoting scripture and asking about a conference talk. And, Hey, I had this question seminary this week, or I met with my bishop about my broccoli addiction and, and I need some help. 'cause I, I need to talk to my parents about it. Wow. I mean, those are, those are the kinds of sacred conversations that have happened in really authentic ways.
A lot of mental health conversations, a lot of family dynamics changing over the years where kids are dealing with divorce or, um, they're feeling lonely at school and they're not kind of fitting in. And what I will say about our group that's been amazing is it's all the groups. It's Breakfast Club. Mm-Hmm. . It's like the, the football players and the cheerleaders and the drama kids and the, you know, high tech science kids. It's all those groups coming together. Hmm.
And the full-time missionaries show up all the time and they're just like, where was this when we were trying to prep ? Yeah. So, and what I really love is we have some OGs, my son and one of the original of that Sunday school class is now married with a baby and he comes still every month. Oh, cool. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. So you have it on a monthly now. Okay. Yeah. There's been times we've had it weekly. Mm-Hmm.
the kids will beg. And when our kids were both at home, we both are, you know, we're empty nesters now. So both of our kids, our daughter's on a mission and our son lives close by, but he's, he's outta the house and sometimes attends Mm-Hmm. . So we've gone through versions of it. And so for those that are listening and like, I wanna start this, be open to maybe just starting with once a month.
Mm-Hmm. . And, and I would just choose a consistent, right now we are only doing it first of the month. So every first Sunday, which makes it great for conference weekend because we end up always having a post-conference kind of chat. Hmm. Um, we've had during the summer, had to pull back on scheduling. 'cause there's all the travel we've done second and fourth, we've, we've done weekly.
We've done that multiple times, which is really cool when you have kids that are coming to a not required church activity. It's not sponsored by the ward of the stake, it's not our calling. And they're coming of their own free will because they just wanna come and talk about scripture and talk about mental health and talk about faith and preparing for missions.
It's phenomenal. Wow. Yeah. And it's interesting to see when kids bring their friends that they've been working on, you know, like we have all these testimonials of all these kids. Like so and so, Andy, Andy, shout out to Andy 'cause she's gonna take over. We have someone that's been facilitating since her daughter left on her mission is leaving on a mission. And so we have a new person taking over this next month at the time of this taping. And Andy has, is just like our great ambassador.
And she's like, um, convinced huge groups of kids to come for the first time. And, and last one she was like, I brought this group last week and last time. And they weren't in fi on fire about it. They didn't love, they didn't see the purpose in the passion like I did. But then there were a couple that were converted, you know, that were like, Andy's been wearing me down, inviting me to come to PMG. But it's hard even for the kids to describe to their friends, why is it different?
Why would you wanna go to the Gandhi's house on a Sunday night and talk about church? Mm-Hmm. . And then they come and see that it's not like any other class testimony meaning slash Yeah. Support group, whatever mission prep that they've ever been in. So - Take us to like the, the structure of it. And especially with this youth led that's sort of Yeah. Like really is Yeah, it is. Is it really? Youth led? - A hundred percent . I talked to my missionary today, it's PDay.
And uh, I said we're gonna talk about PMG on leading Saints. She's like, okay. I said, so what do you wanna make sure? She's like, make sure they understand the adults gotta get out of the way. She said, you and dad have a lot to do with that. 'cause you created this very open, honest, authentic conversation in, in Sunday school where this kind of all started. And when you come to our home, it's obvious that we talk about all the things.
And broccoli addiction is right there with depression, anxiety right there with Joseph Smith testimony to all these things. Mm-Hmm. , she said, but you guys hug and you participate as if you're part of it. Now there's moments where it can kind of go off or, you know, there's a really, there's been tough conversations of women priesthood and why is the missionary age different? And you know, we went through all the prop eight time, like mm-Hmm.
. We had kids coming during some really high profile like triggering culturally doctrinally policy handbook change kind of stuff. And what I've felt as an adult in that is that if they see that you are, you are needing the meeting just as much as they're needing it, then you're there to support it and model when it gets maybe stalled or off in the weeds, but make sure it's youth directed.
And that means you, you know, you have someone, if you have one teenager that wants to do something like this and here's this maybe episode and feels like their friends need a safe space to get together and have really spirit directed conversations that really help them get ready that's not so formal and wearing a dress and at the church and all that, have them be in charge of getting it started. That's what my daughter said. Mm-Hmm. .
She's like, have that youth be the one to lead How it is creating the space and having hugs. Now we've had times where we had treats. Treats are not the thing now, if we have treats, it's 'cause one of the kids bring them. Mm-Hmm. , you know, don't make it so complicated. They're used to going to weekly activities and seminary being this way and they're used to that. Mm-Hmm. . But what does home centered feel like?
Why is that different than having a church meeting and when the youth feel like they really are there? They've modeled teaching discussions to each other. We've had times where we've had goals to memorize a certain section in the DNC or or or other things like that. But mainly we use that PMG to start the conversation and we really have allowed for them to practice what it's like to have the spirit direct it. Mm-Hmm. .
So that's the first thing I would say. So - When your son started this, what did he feel like this pressure of I have to prepare a lesson? No. So how do, how do you help the youth feel comfortable? Like, okay, you're in charge tonight, so good luck. - Well, I mean, I think , I don't think it, it's unreasonable to say there's always within Ward or in a family or in a community that one youth Mm-Hmm.
that is like willing, and I, I wouldn't say my son was that personality, but he had seen one little taste of it and we did our version of it and then it snowballed and it, it only took one time for the youth to want more of it. Mm-Hmm. . And then all of a sudden by making it very casual in that like, if you show up in your sweats, great. If you show up 'cause you're still in your church calls, fine.
And if the mom's willing to hug everybody and make it a safe space, and you kind of set out the ground rules, which are, it's okay to cry and it's okay to talk about addiction. We call it broccoli addiction. That's kind of what we do in a review. Um, the youth figured out. And I think especially we've gone through the 10 years of this, so if you think 10 years back youth weren't being asked to teach the Sunday lessons, then Mm-Hmm. those kids really, I watched them grow.
But we have a good chunk of kids over the 10 years that say that was the most important thing they did to prepare for the mission. Wow. Yeah. That they could have ever done, number one, because they had those authentic moments where a kid would throw a question out. Mm-Hmm. . And whoever was facilitating kind of can feel that. Mm-Hmm. , Hey, like my daughter and my son. I've watched them both facilitate it over the years. But who's been currently doing it?
Claire, she's done a great job. She'll stop and go. Okay. Is anyone some feeling weird about that section or is there a question on that? The spirit, the other rule I would always set out is the spirit interrupts. Mm-Hmm. . And I'm an interrupter. And so I totally like, I just totally wanna validate that the spirit is not linear. And so when you are the adult, maybe hosting, make sure you create the environment where it's safe.
And then if you feel like whoever's trying to learn how to facilitate is struggling to kind of figure out they are learning those same stalls that we have as teachers, as missionaries, as parents all the time. Yeah. I mean, that's real life. And there's, there's not been one PMG that's the same because the spirit has been in charge.
So even though we've gone through the whole PMG manual multiple times in the last 10 years, we have not had one PMG discussion that's the same because the kids come with their own questions, their own insights, their own needs. There's new issues happening in the world. Mm-Hmm. . And it causes a totally different discussion. So I would say first and foremost, gather, we always start with kind of a review of the rules and introduce whoever's new.
Um, if kids have gotten mission calls, we make a big deal about that. If kids are about to leave on a mission, they kind of give the closing testimony. Mm-Hmm. We always sing God Be with you till we meet again and everyone's crying. We kneel in family, family prayer. That's kind of what we call it at the end. Um, but we start with a song and that kind of loosens everyone up and whoever's facilitating, it's pretty easy if it's like, where did we left off?
Where did we leave off in the PMG, we start reading a section teaching those youth what it feels like to have the spirit really direct to meaning is powerful. Mm-Hmm. . And you don't know how to teach it until you experience it. Mm-Hmm. . And so I would say give it some time, maybe it doesn't feel as magical and vulnerable and authentic at first, but give it some time. Yeah. And, and stay out of the way. That's what my daughter kept reiterating is stay out of the way. Yeah.
- And so typically, what are you, you're, you're there. You may make a comment here or there, or - Come on Kurt. You know me. - . Well, I don't - Know, maybe one or two. No, there's, there's some PMG groups where I probably comment more than I need to, but I have really shown the kids that I need this group just as much as they do. Mm-Hmm. . And this gathering is a really good touchstone for me month to month. Right now we're doing it once a month. Mm-Hmm.
. So I would just say I try to let, I think my husband and I kind of try to let it get going first. Um, but I, I feel like those that attend know that Mama Condi and Brother Condi are there learning with them. Mm-Hmm. . And there's times where the spirit is really clear that I need to share something. And there's times where it's really clear, I just need to sit and hug a kid. Mm-Hmm. , you know, and, and ask them how they're doing. But our biggest problem is ending it after two hours.
It is not getting it go, you know, it, it may start out slow. There might be points in the middle of it that it gets a little stalled. It's usually we're kicking kids out. Yeah. And we have an actual family prayer at the end for the stragglers that aren't leaving the house. And we go, okay, now literally lights are going out and we're having family prayer. And that's a code for like, it's time to go. So I would just say Rob and I really try to be alongside them. Yeah.
- And sometimes there's other adults there that, uh Yeah. Show up as well. Yeah. - We had, for a while we had a single mom who was raising seven kids on her own and her son was obsessed with being there and loved being there. Mm-Hmm. . So she liked to come with him once in a while. We've had parents like, what's going on? What are the condi doing at their house? Uh, we have a lot of bishop and stake support now, but leadership has changed over the years.
Mm-Hmm. . And I think Word has gotten out, uh, that we're not doing some crazy, we're using the PMG manual. We're not going into some weird doctrinal thing. Mm-Hmm. . But it is a youth directed gathering that is not our calling per se. And so if parents are you, you know, interested, genuinely I've invited some parents that are struggling, like, you wanna have a boost in the arm. We've opened it up to anyone 16 and older. Mm-Hmm.
And, uh, we've said if you, if you're feeling like you don't see hope in the world and you're pretty sure everyone's going crazy and the teenagers of today are wacky and you're so afraid, come hang out at the cones once a month. Mm-Hmm. . And you will feel inspired.
I love that the full-time missionaries come because we've watched a whole variety of personalities of sister missionaries and elders come from all over the world and come to this gathering and they get to practice, you know, witnessing and testifying and teaching to these youth. But really they're right alongside of them.
And what has been cool is the youth that are on the fence about, I don't even know if I wanna serve a mission, they'll see all these full-time missionaries show up and they all have different strengths and weaknesses. Mm-Hmm. and personalities. And my son shared this like, it was a few, maybe a month before he left on his mission to Zimbabwe. And I think any knew about to go out missionary relates to like, I don't know the scriptures well enough.
Mm-Hmm. . I haven't read the Book of Mormon as much as I should. And he was kind of in his head and a couple of the other kids were about to go out too when he was leaving. And we had full-time missionaries that were bless their hearts, you know, not scripts not super personable. Mm-Hmm. not super comfortable even having an, an, an face-to-face conversation almost as if you would think they were brand new missionaries. They were both about ready to go whole.
Like they were two years in and they were still struggling. And both of them, we gave them an opportunity to bear testimony at the end. And they were so vulnerable and simple. Mm-Hmm. just simple testimony about Jesus Christ that they, one of those elders said, I have a thorn in my side. Like Paul, I've prayed for two years on my mission for it to go away. It's still here, but I know Jesus is here with me and I'm grateful I've been his representative. That was it. Like one minute testimony.
All those kids that were about to go out were like, oh, I can do this. Like, I don't have to be fancy in my teaching and know everything about the scriptures. Like I can do this. And so I think that's been beautiful to see. And we have loved when adults have come, but it really is about the youth. And I would just say this, I get asked this question because, you know, it's hard being a parent between 13 and 15 and you feel like you might be losing your kid.
I do think the sweet spot for this group, this kind of gathering is 16 and older. Mm-Hmm. , they have cars. So if you're not living where everyone can kind of walk to somebody's house, that's helpful. Number two, there, there are some younger than 16 siblings that sometimes come and, and they do well, but there's something about that dating age, the maturity, the questions they're asking that kind of wrestle that comes up from 16 to 18.
That is a really good place where there's some maturity and some context. So the gospel discussion around a scripture or a principle or a doctrine turns into a very unique thing when they're 16 and older. Mm-Hmm. . And I would also say it's beautiful that we have return missionaries that come. We have early return missionaries that didn't serve as long as they anticipated come. That's been a really good place for them to transition.
Yeah. I was just talking to my daughter today that like, when she gets home, it's been a very high school with some YSA RM backfill. I am almost hoping that PMG in our home shifts a little bit. So maybe it's a 60 40, 70 30 of more YSA return missionary. Because I think that demographic really needs a place. Yeah. Um, my husband and I were on a date one night Rollerskating. That's a whole nother episode. We were okay. We were alphabet dating and so Oh yeah. Yeah.
So someone recognized me from my show and that I had been hosting and I had talked about PMG on, on top of him and she was with her fiance Rollerskating, and she's like, you're gay along Condi. And I said, yeah. She's like, are you on an alphabet date? I said, yes I am. And uh, she said, I heard you talk about PMG on top of him. I said, oh yeah, we're having it tomorrow night. You should come. She goes, oh, no, no. We started our own. Oh, nice. And it was all YSA mm-Hmm.
, you know, it was all return missionary in that demographic too. And so I'm, I'm kind of hoping our family shifts a little bit like our, our group allows for that because I think that demographic needs a different conversation too. Um, but I do love that there's a diversity of ages. Yeah. I would say 16 and older is a really helpful place to kind of start this. Even if you're wrestling with, for all those parents of 13 to 15 year olds that are like, what do I do?
Create your home to be the place to hang out. Host a movie night, host a game night Mm-Hmm. Host a something to create a gathering place at your home, but PMGs just a little bit different. Yeah. It is a gospel discussion. Yeah. And it is within context of real life. - And I appreciate the informality of it all that, you know, you're just, you're taking so much stress off the table. Don't worry about cooking the refreshments. No, don't worry about teaching the lesson or doing all these things.
It's just, just let it be what it is. It's in a home and just, there's a natural energy of a home of like, okay, we're comfortable here, we're chatting. - Can I tell you a little different thing? This was going on so long and so well, and our son was about to leave. A lot of his friends, her, that original group had gone out on missions already. Mm-Hmm. . And the Stake wanted us, they called us to be the mission prep teachers.
'cause they wanted us to translate this thing that we had created in our home at the stake level. And this is not to throw anyone under the bus. Right. But I have an actual test case of the difference. So we push the stake to kind of incorporate different time of day. And church clothes are optional. And we even tossed around the idea of having it in our home. But it's hard when it's a stake sponsored something or award sponsored something.
Sometimes award thing can be a home base because the whole ward knows we know where that family lives. But on a stake level, you know, how are you gonna communicate to like 18 wards that this is where mission prep is every month or every week. So it didn't turn into that it was church, it was before church because that's at our time. Our stake leadership wanted all the meetings done by 9:00 AM Mm-Hmm. . And it was, it was church close. Mm-Hmm.
did we having that as our calling help bring some of what happened in our home, I think to that church meeting. Yes. Mm-Hmm. . But for those kids that kind of transitioned with us when it was our calling, we stopped for a while doing it in our home because it was now our calling and we wanted to support our stake in doing this calling. And our daughter wasn't 16 yet. So there was a little window there where we were called to do this and it was different.
Yeah. We, we still tried to have broccoli addiction conversations. PMG youth directed, uh, you know, vulnerable spirit directed meeting, but it was different Yeah. To have it at the church, in church clothes at 7:00 AM teenagers, anyone that's a parent of a teenager or YSA, they wanna talk after nine o'clock at night. They don't wanna talk it before nine o'clock in the morning. Right. Yeah. And so there is something about the fact that there's this informal setting and it's home spirited.
Mm-Hmm. The other thing I would say is don't get in the way. My daughter said that today when I talked to her about our, our conversation. Mm-Hmm. , she said, don't get in the way Trust a little bit that it feels the, the youth of today are brilliant and they've lived through Covid and . They do two hour church and they, they don't have prescribed lessons. You teach on the mission. They, they've lived through PMG, where remember that?
Yeah. When it was like, you don't have a lesson to teach on that doctrine. You have to just like be spirit directed as a missionary. That's our youth of today. Let them be really there and, and you join them and watch how they teach you. It's amazing. It's beautiful, it's fabulous. And every time it's different. And I feel like my daughter reflecting that back, she's like, I think you and dad have a lot to do with the environment.
Maybe some adult hosts don't feel as comfortable as we do about talking about mental health and addiction and, and the savior and repentance in the temple. Mm-Hmm. Um, and if you're not comfortable with that, that's okay. But ease towards that where it's obvious to these kids that you want them to have real life conversations where you want them to see that the doctrine and the hope of the gospel of Christ is not over here and their real life is over here.
Like for me, the PMG magic is that it's this, it is the gospel and real life in action and it's youth directed, spirit supported and pushed. Mm-Hmm. , not adult pushed. Mm-Hmm. not calling. Pushed not Right. They have enough of that. And I often feel like the adversary doesn't take the fifth Sunday off. Like, Satan's not like, oh, it's fifth Sunday, I think I'll stop like attacking everyone on TikTok. You know, or Oh, it's a Wednesday night. Everyone's at Mutual. Do we call it mutual stuff?
- ? I don't think we do, but we get it. - so old, you know, like, oh, everyone's at youth activities, we're not gonna, you know, we're not going to tempt them with broccoli today. Yeah. Like Satan doesn't take a day off. Right. And so I would say meet your youth where they're at. Yeah.
You know? Yeah. If you have sick people that are over by the river, you take the medicine to the river, you don't sit over at the hospital and hope, you know, they find a car and a ride and they get some money and they get to the hospital. Mm-Hmm. . And so in many ways, I feel like our home has been this space of like, yes, they gotta get in their car and drive to our house. Mm-Hmm. But after that, you know, they show up and they, they're met right where they're at. Right.
- So, and with the invitation, obviously it's done mainly word of mouth, but is there any like, like if you cancel a a a time because of holidays or whatever, like how, how do you project, communicate the message out there? - Well, it's funny, I have the original PMG group on Facebook, but none of the kids are off Facebook. Uh, unless they're on the mission at the time. Right. Yeah. So I've stopped using that for a while.
Um, I was using Instagram 'cause for there, we've gone through all the social media platform Right. Times over 10 years for a while their Instagram was where now Instagram's gotten older too. Yeah. So that's not as young. Um, GroupMe is what is currently being used by the group. Yeah. And it's cool because the youth are in charge of it. And so they add everyone to GroupMe. I guess GroupMe is still an approved, uh, teen communication - Because I think it's so tech centric. Right.
- It's so tech - Like, you can just text - Yeah. And be part of the group. And what's really cool is like if there's a mission farewell or homecoming, they'll put it all on the group Tech GroupMe. Um, we've had some missionaries leave PMG, that's what we call it. Like, they leave our PMG group, they go out on the missions and they've started PMG groups on the mission. And that's been really cool to see them.
And I've always said to the kids, you have now witnessed what it's like to be in a spirit directed, gospel focused home-based group. Mm-Hmm. now you can't unknow it. Now you have to go out in the world and replicate it with your roommates in college, with your future spouses, with your future leadership positions. Like this doesn't end here. Mm-Hmm. , this is a taste of what Zion to me is gonna feel like.
Yeah. And you're now in charge of talking about addiction, mental health, real life stuff within a gospel context in authentic ways, in positive ways about the church out in the world. And that is gonna grow. And so on GroupMe, what's cool is they'll send like, I don't know how many times there's been been a P mg discussion about, okay, I have a question about this and it will be some gospel question.
And it's a kid that is like raising their hands, saying like, I'm really wondering about prayer. Mm-Hmm. , I'll just use that prayer. And all of a sudden all these kids are getting prompted by the spirit. Okay, well in verse da da da da and the doctrine covenants, and I love this talk by Elder Holland, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. Mm-Hmm. . And all of a sudden the GroupMe is filled with, Hey, can you throw that on the GroupMe?
Right. So it's the, it's the song that the praise music they love or it's this verse of scripture that they love or it's the quote from the talk that they just taught to each other that is now on the GroupMe. Yeah. And that is real, like, that's real gospel learning, not because anyone was called to do it. Yeah. It's magic. And, and what I would say the root of all of that is it's because it honors a law of God and the law of God is agency.
Hmm. And when we honor agency, the spirit can do some amazing work. And so you're watching these kids that are coming by their own choice. Some of 'em have been worn down by friends that are like nagging them. You have to come to PMG. Right. Um, and most of them, their hearts soften. They come, they go, oh, this is what you've been saying. We're there because of agency. We're not there because, and I'm not trying to take away from I love that I've been called to do callings Mm-Hmm.
that I'm wasn't comfortable doing. Yeah. IE primary Coer . - Oh, you're born for that? - No, I almost wanted to be a Methodist Methodists have donuts on Sundays. Right. Cribs, . Yeah. No, that I sound great in my car, but no one wants to hear this singing. So, you know, I mean, I've been called to those callings that push you outta your comfort zone. Yeah. Um, but what a beautiful thing to just like choose to gather. Yeah.
- So it sounds like someone wants to start, it's a matter of like, Hey, here's the time, here's the home. We're using this youth, why don't you lead out this time? Here's the Yeah. The preach my gospel manual - And just start reading. And I would just say suggest, if you don't have an obvious first time leader, it's fine if you wanna rotate. But I would, if you find a facilitator that you have a kid already in your home. 'cause let's be honest, this is , this is parents.
Like, I don't know what to do to help my 16-year-old right now. Right. Right. That's gonna be an obvious, um, connection that you already have that facilitator, facilitator in your home. Don't rotate that. Mm-Hmm. unless it's just not working or your kid says I'm sick of doing it. Um, I think it's been helpful to watch chunks of time where we had the same kid facilitating because you've watched them grow in leadership and they start to see the patterns.
It's the same consistent, you know, if someone can't be there or whatever. But we've had Claire doing it since our daughter left and she spent a year watching her brother and my daughter preparing for a mission. And so to see her in her first year of college, come home every month and facilitate this, she's blossomed.
Like, she's like, I've watched her learn her how to hear the spirit and direct and how to help when the conversation gets a little off or it goes too long or someone's really feeling something. And, and so allow the facilitator, if possible, to be the same youth for a while. Okay. I think that creates, um, some consistency because you're gonna, you're gonna have kids that, I mean, hopefully eventually everyone knows that it's an open door. It's the same time every month.
It's always at the Condi house. You don't need to knock, you just walk in the shoes start. You probably have seen my post. Maybe you haven't. Yeah. Yeah. Like I do shoe posts on Instagram, so floor full of shoes. 'cause it's literally an ocean of shoes. 'cause all the kids take off their shoes in the front door and area and you know, and they just walk in. And so I think it helps when, you know, there's that one facilitated, um, voice that the kids start to do.
But no one who has been in charge of facilitating has really, they say a few things at the beginning. They may help in the middle and they know how to close it out. Mm-Hmm. . That's it. The rest of the time is, it is group led. So it really is an image of testimony meeting meets really great gospel doctrine class meets support group. Yeah. - Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. That's awesome. Um, anything you'd say about, I mean, what if, what if the conversation does take a left turn?
It's, and you're sitting there like, what do I do? Like, do you step in? I, what what advice would you give to Okay. - On that? So I wasn't here for this gospel doctrine lesson, but just a couple weeks ago in our ward, it got a sticky topic happened and I was out of town and my phone was blowing up. I'm like, what's happening at church today? Right. . Everyone's like, why aren't you here today? And I'm like, what's happening?
And, and it was this, and it was this honest, authentic, awkward kind of those conversations that we, we've all gotten less accustomed to. Mm-Hmm. , I grew up having politics and religion talked about at Sunday dinner. Mm-Hmm. . And I think we've lost the ability, we now just liken unlike posts, Right. Mute - For 30 days. Right. Yeah. - Mute for 30 days. Wait, do you have a secret camera in my house - Checking me . - And I talked to our bishop about that Sunday school lesson.
He goes, it was fine. It was great. He got up at the very end and he said, I love our award. I love that this set of people that have this wrestle. We're honest about their wrestle and this set of people have a totally different opinion, spoke up. It's not what Sunday school should be about, but because we're not accustomed to it as adults, we get really uncomfortable about it. Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. I think we do more than teenagers do.
So I would just say if it goes off and we've had that, we've had moments where there were some really, I would say more than anything really emotionally charged topics that kids needed help with. Yeah. I have never seen it go so long or so off where there wasn't multiple kids attending. And I call 'em kids because I could be their mom . Um, that helped bring it back. Yeah. We didn't have to worry. We were there.
Um, there have been times where the kids are like, okay, we want parents to tell us what they think and they'll put us on the spot and say like, mama Condi, what do you think about that? Or Rob, what do you think about that? And my husband will share Mm-Hmm. , you know, from his mission or his experience.
But most of the time I think if we don't panic, they know that the sense, this is the thing I would say, and as a content creator, I know you're gonna understand what I'm saying about this without me throwing anyone else under the bus. Okay. As a content creator, I value having the awkward conversations. Mm-Hmm. , that's my sweet spot. I love it. It doesn't make me uncomfortable. It actually makes me feel like the needle's moving in someone's life. Right.
- I I almost have the theory that, that the concept of, um, of oversharing is not, is actually not a thing. It's not a thing. It's, it's usually we make it, oh, that person's oversharing. This is awkward. They're talking too much. There's something in you that it's really, it's being triggered. That it's being triggered. And that where in reality that person isn't that beautiful. That they find safety here. Yes. That they can bring that up.
- Yes. Right. So I would say in that situation when I feel like there's an awkward whatever, there are a lot of content creators out there that take that same topic. And, and this feels like if you were to put like graphics on this episode, warning, the warning banner is now going across the bottom. There's the same topic could be discussed with a lens of criticism of church leadership. Mm-Hmm. or criticism of the church as an organization.
Or the same topic could be discussed by another content creator with a lens of faith. Mm-Hmm. with a lens of let's have an open conversation. So we find a way to stay in our faith. Mm-Hmm. . And we stay in good standing, whatever that means with the church. Mm-Hmm. . So please be aware of what you just said, that as adults we're the ones that sometimes the uncomfortable radar goes off.
Our kids are used to talking about, I mean, I gave a fireside a few weeks ago to a stake that had just dealt with a suicide and there were some parents not comfortable even saying the word that that's about them. Mm-Hmm. . And if they don't think their kids who just went through a suicide in their high school isn't hearing about it on TikTok and at school every day, then that's about adults that aren't aware of how much our kids are hearing.
So I'd rather have a space that has been dedicated, which our home has with a lens that is focused on positive views of church leadership and the church as a whole within that space, having a conversation around things that are genuine questions. Because all of us have had that experience where we put it up on the proverbial shelf so long, and that's what I've said to the kids, don't do that. Mm-Hmm. , this is a room full of faith friends.
These are, these are kids trying to go to the, the temple overall, be in seminary prep for mission. Some have gone on missions. This is exactly where you should be asking that question. Not on social media where you don't know what the agenda of that content creator is. Mm-Hmm. , I mean, I just said this to someone the other day when I did a post about my feeling on my garments. Mm-Hmm. . I, I could be click baiting and grow pretty fast. Mm-Hmm. , I don't value doing that.
I, I value having a conversation about maybe nuances or struggles with certain principles or living the gospel in a certain way with a lens of faith, abs staying.
And so realize that if you're gonna host this kind of PMG group, uh, you trust that these kids, if they're choosing to come because, and maybe their parents are making them go, but within a few weeks, it will just take, if it's two kids, it started with two kids, my son and one person, and then it grew to three and then it grew to 13, then it was 30 pretty regularly then it was 65. We had kids under the foosball table, , it was up the stairs. It was crazy. Right. No treats.
There was no like, here we're gonna give you Snickers bars if you come and talk about Jesus. Mm-Hmm. . It was literally the word had spread because the teens were able to tell each other, this is unlike anything else. I can talk about broccoli addiction, I can talk about how I feel about Joseph Smith. I can ask questions about women in the priesthood in the temple.
And it doesn't, we didn't try to, we had some parents come at one point and I'm like, we're not, we're not taking into some higher secret lost 116 pages . We're not doing that. Yeah. We're not doing that. This is real life application in real terms of the gospel in action. And you're having kids tell other kids, Hey, I met with my bishop. I'm working with a therapist. I haven't had broccoli addiction for 90 days. I'm working on my papers. My parents are getting a divorce.
This is how I'm handling it. I went and talked to my bishop. I have a temple. Recommend again. I mean I've wept. Um, one young woman had come for two years and she would participate. You know, you can always tell the kids that are like, they're holdouts. They're gonna just watch. They are there all the time. They don't wanna say anything. Great. Then there's other kids that are always like elder hall at the tip of their fingers, you know, .
And, uh, this young woman would participate and she had watched lots of kids talk about broccoli addiction. Two years in young woman admits her broccoli addiction that her parents have no idea. She's never talked to her bishop about it. And everything on the, what we were reading in PMG stopped. And she said, I, I have an appointment with the bishop on Wednesday. And all these other kids said, okay. When I met with my bishop about broccoli, this is what I said.
And she said, okay, but then how do I talk to my parents? And then three other kids are like, guess what my parents did? And we don't know how your parents are gonna do, but my parents loved me. Mm-Hmm. They hugged me. They told me they were proud of me. And all those kids on GroupMe on Wednesday night were praying for you, we're thinking of you we're, we're cheering you on. Let us know how it goes. Mm-Hmm. And she reported back. My bishop was amazing.
And I always tell the kids, not every bishop is ready to talk about broccoli in the same way. Mm-Hmm. , you know, some bishops are gonna make you feel this way. And isn't that great that God calls, calls bishops that are plumbers And, and you know, I don't know NBA players, I don't know. I don't know. Right. Like God calls all of us in these leadership positions Right. And we come from these different walks of life.
And so you're gonna have bishops with certain personalities that really are okay with having certain con of conversations and others that are brand new and they don't even know what they're supposed to say about roli. Right. So the kids have warned each other like, it's okay. You know, my bishop was amazing. Mine was not so great. Mm-Hmm. . And, and this young woman reported back. My parents loved me. They were so proud of me. That couldn't have happened.
I don't, I mean, I would bet anyone I don't, I don't know where else that would've happened. Mm-Hmm. . I don't know if that would've happened in a seminary class or a Sunday school class or a young women's class. I don't know if it would've, it happened in our home because those kids have learned that it's a safe space and um, and they can teach each other. Yeah. And that the spirit will be there. Awesome. - What anything else we're missing about this?
Uh, obviously people can just jump in and try and it'll become their own thing. Right? They may find - It'll be their own thing. - Yeah. Different things and dynamics they can try. But - Yeah, I, I think it's evolved over the years for the needs of our family and the needs of our kids. And it started from that space of our son who needed it. And I was grateful other kids needed it. I've needed them. Mm-Hmm. . I feel like it's been a sacred honor. I have parents that stop me all the time.
Oh, you're the PG mom and thank me. Yeah. And I'm like, oh no, no you for sharing your kid with us. Mm-Hmm. , you know, I would just say stay outta the way. And to me it's a, it's a glimpse into what Zion's gonna feel like. And I think it made when they announced come follow me and the change in church scheduling, it made everything make sense. 'cause I had, we had been practicing it.
And I would just say also that if you are learning to let a spirit direct a meeting, then be patient with yourself. 'cause that's a different language. And so one of the best things Rob and I have tried to model is we will stop sometimes and say, did you guys just feel that? Or the kids will say, someone's supposed to say something. Who is it? ? And they'll call out and tell the spirit, not it. And the kids are cute. They're like, it's me. I've been filling it for 25 minutes. . You know.
That's awesome. I love that. I, I think the biggest thing is once it starts to take on its own spirit and life, um, you're just gonna have to have an end point. 'cause the kids don't wanna go home. Yeah. You know, they just wanna be there. And, um, and we've adjusted. There's been times where, especially that last four months of high school, you know, when my daughter was a senior and there was a lot of seniors that year preparing. They're like, we, we can't do it twice a month.
We have to have it every week. And, and we up to, you know, back to every week. Mm-Hmm. . Um, but just get ready to see miracles and let God tell you what's needed. You may have caveat, you may have leadership that are worried. You may have parents that are worried. I would say use that PMG manual, not as a lesson plan, but as a safe church approved doctrinal point. Mm-Hmm. . And the kids will go back to it. They'll say, oh, that's in section seven in PMG.
You know, and they've come to become so familiar with it. That really is mission prep. But I think all of us know it's after mission life. That is where it gets dicey. And so we always tell kids, yes, you can call it mission prep. You can tell your parents and your friends that it's mission prep, but this is life prep. This is all of us forever. So that's my, my last two bits. - Cool. Yeah. Awesome. We covered it all. We did. Yeah. You never have to talk about it again.
'cause you can just refer people back. . - Yay. - So that's awesome. - No people, people can DM me, but I'm just gonna send you this episode. That's all I'm gonna do. That's right. It's amazing. Nice. It's amazing to put it out here and you can tell I get excited about it because it's really been a sacred decade of watching. I have zero fear about the future of our church with the leaders that I see that have been in my basement.
I have zero fear. These kids can hold the sacred and they sit in the paradoxes. They have L-G-B-T-Q friends, they have parents that are divorced. They deal with addiction, they deal with mental health and they love the gospel of Jesus Christ. And if you love them, they're gonna make it through all the wiggly waggly stuff. I don't even know what that word is. I just invented it. Wiggly waggly. It feels like I get caught in the weeds. And then I have PMG and it re clarifies for me.
I've been in my own wandering the last year and monthly PMG has kept me and the kids know that I need it just as much as they do. And the gospel of Jesus Christ is the good news. Like we should be the most hopeful people. And these kids show me that every month. - The end. That's it for this Leading Saints episode. I encourage you to check out some of the most popular episodes of the podcast that we list at the bottom of the show notes. If you haven't listened to all of those, do so now.
Remember to watch the interview about scrupulosity, go to leading saints.org/fourteen for free access to the Mentally Healthy Saints virtual library. - It came as a result of the position of leadership, which was imposed upon us by the God of Heaven, who brought forth a restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ. And when the Declaration was made concerning the only and only true and living church upon the face of the earth, we were immediately put in a position of loneliness.
The loneliness of leadership from which we cannot shrink nor run away. And to which we must face up with boldness and courage and ability.