How's your teaching calling going? Have ever asked a question during this second hour, and suddenly, everyone is looking at the carpet and silence. There are proven methods to stimulate class discussion that work like a charm, second David Farm worth does a mass job presenting on this very subject in the teaching Saints virtual library. What questions get people talking? How can you effectively listen to the answer they're saying without being distracted of where you wanna take the class next?
These are... Crucial principles to consider especially in this time of come follow me Sunday school. You can watch David Far presentation by visiting leading Saints dot org slash 14. There, you can gain free access for 14 days to the teaching Saints virtual library, where you'll find hours and hours of content to help you be a better prepared Sunday teacher. So my name is Kurt Frank, and I am the founder and executive director of leading saints and obviously the host of the leading
saints podcast. Now I started leading saints back in 2010. It was just a hobby blog, and it grew from there by the time, 2014 came around, We started the podcast, and that's really when it got some traction and took off, 2016. We became a 05:01 seats. Free non nonprofit organization and we've been growing ever since. And now I get the opportunity of interviewing and talking with remarkable people all over the world, Now this is a segment we do on the leading Saints podcast called how I lead.
And we reach out to everyday leaders. They're not... Experts, guru, authors, Phds, they're just everyday leaders who've been asked to serve in a specific leadership calling, and we simply ask them. How is it that you lead? And they go through some remarkable principles that should be in a book that should be behind a Phd. They're usually that good? And we just talk about us sharing what the other guy doing. And I remember being a leader just simply wanting to know, okay, I know what I'm
trying to do. But what's the other guy doing? What's working for him. And so that's why every Wednesday or so, we publish these how I lead segments to share trying Hello, everyone. And welcome back to another episode of the leading Saints podcast today. I'm welcoming in welcoming in some fellow Utah County, heights, whatever. We call ourselves here. But, Garrett Shields and Monica fell from Spanish for. How are you too? Good. Happy to doing well. Awesome. Doing well. Thanks,
Kurt. So maybe Garrett, lay the lay the... The the whole scope here for us. So you were recently released as a Sunday school president. Maybe... And what... Basically, you you reached out to me said you're kinda seeing some success with, a different approach in Sunday school and your ward. But lay the groundwork for us, what to put us all into context here? Yeah. Happy to. So, yeah, I was serving for a Sunday school president for about 3 years and was released a couple months ago. Monica was...
Part of our presidency, and she was released at the same time. But, when I was first called is sunday school president in the ward, Bishop invited me to, kinda think about how I wanted to structure because it was a brand new award. And so as I read the the general handbook for the responsibilities of the Sunday school president, it said, you know, Sunday school president serves as a member of the Ward Council.
And then the very first bullet pro bullet point after that, under study school president said that, my job was to oversee the efforts to improve gospel learning and teaching at home and at church. Now answer here, Gary. You are a Full time seminary teacher. So this is, like your bread butter. Right? This is... You're... That probably got you excited. Oh, so excited. I was so excited to get this call. Especially when I realized it's all about teaching and learning. Yeah. Because that
is. It's my work. It's my my passion, not just a church, but also professionally. But, once once I really started thinking about k, I'm supposed to help not just teaching a church, but also teaching at home, I started thinking about the the teaching, the gospel teaching and learning that takes place at home and a church. And at least in our ward and we live here in Utah where we have a really large ward.
And given the dynamics and the family dynamics in our ward, it was clear to me that most of the teaching, gospel teaching that takes place at home. And, Well, most gospel teaching that takes place at home is done by women by moms in our ward. And if you think about the teaching that takes place at church, much of it you know, including the release Society and women and Sunday School is done by women as well.
And especially if you include primary and the primary presidency and and all that in our ward. So in my mind, it made sense if my my responsibility was to overs see the efforts to improve gospel teaching and learning at home and at church to have women as part of our presidency, see And so, you know, I counsel with the bishop about it, and and I guess maybe backing up. I thought that it made sense to have women serve in the presidency.
But then as I looked at the handbook, it clearly states, and and I can read it for you here. It says, if counselors are needed, and if there are enough men to serving in these positions. The Sunday school president may recommend 1 or 2 counselors, and then it says that a man may be called and set up as the Sunday school secretary. I wanted to follow the guidelines in the handbook. I believe it's inspired. I believe it teaches principles and guidelines that part will help us in our service.
And so I called 2 2 counselors and a secretary, 2 men as counselors and a, man as a secretary in our ward. And we were serving for a while, and I kept thinking about this idea of having sisters to serve in the presidency. And after counseling with him ship brett, and what we called decided to call teaching advisers And when the time was right and the right people came to mind, we extended the call with the Bishop extended call.
To monica first and then to another sister in our words as these teaching advise these sisters in our presidency, and they were fully functioning of our presidency, think they, have abilities, they help help council meeting, things and things like that. And so in Monica, you can chime in on this too. But I think the biggest benefit was was just having the perspective so so so,
so helpful. So that's that's kind of the general gist and that specific part of of what we did in our Sunday school presidency. Yeah. So, yeah. I wanna be as clear as possible. Here here's as you started, you say, oh, yeah, Monica is in our presidency. Some people pray. Their ear ears perk up. Right? Like wait a minute renegade war that's gone off of the path. Right? But you know, at line 9, I appreciate the
examples you've your fall the handbook. And, usually, this, you know, whenever this comes up of, like, what's like, changes you'd like to see in the structure of the church, you know, everybody goes to. Why can't women be? In the Sunday school presidency. Right? We give that out there and believe me, I've talked with many people, in the in the church office building, and and they're well aware of of that dynamic that could be, considered, but for whatever reason,
hasn't moved that way. Right? So you... But nonetheless, you found a way through these teacher advisors to include more of those the women voices in Sunday school, especially, as you mentioned when the majority of teaching this happening in the home or even at church art is done by is done by women. Right? Yeah. And I think you bring up a good point. And as we've talked to people about this, like, family members and friends and other awards.
That's... The that idea has come up, the idea of, well, what is this is this just? You know, trying to be politically correct or what what is this? And and it really wasn't kurt. Like, it was directly thinking about gospel teaching a home in a church, and I talked to my bishop about, and he said the same thing he's like, if we're talking about home and church, then, yeah, having women to help out, makes complete sense.
And so So that that... That's... That was kind of the inspiration and the thought process behind that. Yeah. Monica, anything you'd add as far as this process or how you became became aware of it? Just other than... Yeah. They had called me in, the bishop with Called me and said we have a little bit of a different calling for you. We'd like to extend to you and And, I was excited. I knew Garrett and thought, yeah. Why not? I'll give it a try. It was it was kinda of fun to
see the reactions of others. Out in public when I... They'd say, oh, and what calling do you have? And I'd say, I'm in the Sunday school residency, and then what have to you explain. So... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That that raised some eyebrows. But... Yeah.
Yeah. It's it. It was fantastic, and it was fun to get to, work in the Sunday school presidency and really bring you know, a a woman's or a mom's perspective, to the table when when like, he said a lot of teaching done in the home is done by mothers So, yeah. It was... Yeah. It was really... It worked out really well. Yeah. So it sounds like, Gary, I mean, you you call
the Sunday school presence. In a traditional fashion, but it's almost like you extended that say, now we're gonna call a sunday school counsel. So we're various people could could sit in on on our presidency meetings and see we could counsel together. Right? Yeah. That's a good comparison. And it was cool to see cool to see like, the Word Council, for example, the release Society presidency asked Monica to help with a training for their release Society teachers. I didn't even attend.
That little training meeting. It was Monica, who led that and helped with that. And so it it was something that the the whole award, the word Council, understood and and embraced. I'd say, yeah. I think it did become much more of a counsel. Cool. And, Monica, you were 1 of how many teacher advisors that were called. 1 of 2. 0, okay. Great. And both of them were were female, I assume. Right. We were both female. Yep. Nice. And then just maybe talk about either of you... Like, the the cadence of
these roles. I mean, you were you were meeting together sort of as that that council or that presidency pretty regularly or how often? And then what what type of things did you, do in in these roles? So we... What did we meet every couple of weeks? Was it once a month every couple of weeks? That was weekly twice a month? Twice a month, we'd get together. And yeah. Just kind of a an example of
what... Kinda came about 1 of the first things that happened, after I was called is that I felt strongly that teaching in the home and doing come follow me. The women were not feeling really good about it in the home. Like, we didn't I understand what we were supposed to be doing or what it was supposed to look like. And so So I just felt strongly and I brought this up, at 1 of our
meetings and just said, Hey. I think we need to cancel on what come follow me looks like in the home because I feel like as women, we we feel like it needs to look a certain way, you know, we need to sit down and do we have a scripture and a snack? And does everybody and so due to a lot of women not really knowing what come follow me looks like now. I think a lot of families weren't doing it. And it was it was funny in
the presidency meetings and the... The minutes and say, no, I think we're... I think we've got this. I think it's going well and and Ga suggest... Well, let's do this. Let's let's send out a survey in Sunday school or or the Sunday school that we did it. So we sent out a survey to men and women and just said, hey, how do you feel like come follow me going? And wasn't it like 99 percent of the women were, like, we're family miserably
at home. None of us feel like we are do come, follow me at hope, like, we all have this huge sense of guilt, mom Gil. Oh my gosh. And the dads were like, oh, no. I think we got this, like, 1 mention of a scripture or, you know, so it was it was good too... That was 1 of the first... Oh big things that we had done with having these, you know, women in in the Sunday school presidency here being the teaching.
Advisors, and it was fun to bring that perspective because it was funny to see the women go absolutely not we're failing miserably and so we don't even do it. Because we don't even know how to start and the men thinking nah. We've got this. Yeah. Think it's I think it's going well in our home. So that... That's a great example of of the difference between how a man and a woman teaching in the home,
you know, think. Yeah. That's all. That... I think that's just underscores that the the structure of this of having some, women voices involved that are able to sort of uncover this. And again, not that men when, you know, a group of men wouldn't if they thought of surveying things. But, again, it's... I think it really makes this smooth this information arrive quick more quickly. So... And I have... Kurt. I think that's 1 of the beauties of having a presidency or having a council. Right?
As I think of about our presidency in general, 1 of my counselors was a retired. Wonderful man retired man who, is an empty nest now, doesn't have kids at home. My other counselor just had really, really young kids got kids kind of in the middle. Monica has has her kids have now moved out of the house. The other sister adviser Julie, She had some kids who were teenagers. And so it was just really beneficial, and then multiple secretaries and they, at different times. We had
different secretaries who had. Kids at different stages of life too. And so... And Monica as a single mom also brought in just a lot. It was cool to see these different perspectives and these people different stages of life, bringing things into it, bring things Not just perspectives we're bringing insights, bringing suggestions, bringing just life experiences that were really helpful. Really helpful. Yeah. Then another, like, sort of the paradigm shift
I wanna highlight here. And I think more and more Sun school pregnancies are are understanding this, but In my experience just being an observer in our in our faith tradition. The sun a presence called, you know, they're they're making sure that that second hour, every other week that the teachers are called. Right? And, yeah, we got the youth teacher called, and that's happening and and, you know, if they're... If you're building still has a bell, maybe, you know, the old joke it
it, you know, that's all they do. Right? I don't know why you need to call a council, Garrett to ring the bell, But that's sort of where... Is That's sort of where it it stops, but and we we forget or we don't know what to do with the dynamic of, no. You're actually supposed to be a resource. For all teaching in the word, including teaching that's happening in the home. Right? And I think another 1, I guess that a lot of, you know, the teacher council
meeting is something you deal tip leasing. Like, that's happening. Is it the most effective meaning, I don't know. That's maybe hit and miss. But... And so for you as a sunday school presidency or counsel to deli take that next step and say, no. We're going to survey the members. We're gonna identify Wow there's some need here for teaching doing come follow me in the home, So how could we be a resource there? Right? And that just sort of blows open revelation to take those next steps.
Yeah. And, Monica, you can chime in on this too. But, Kurt, 1 of the things we we knew about teach teacher council meetings, and we we did those from the start of my presence Ema before Monaco was called. My presence he was doing teacher council meetings for the teachers and the ward. And then, after Monica was called after we did this survey, we counsel together about doing what was mentioned in the handbook, but none of us had really seen this happen before And that was
a teacher council meeting for parents. Mh. And so we did... I I don't remember when we did the first 1 probably year and a half, maybe even 2 years ago. And it was partly in response to seeing this need that we saw in the ward, and we... Decided given the dynamics of our ward. We have a lot of families that have really young kids, and then we have families that also have teenagers And so we decided, okay, let's have a teacher council meeting for parents where we, you
know, talk about teaching principles. We discussed teaching in the savior way, which by the way, is such an incredible resource kurt. I wish even just getting people to look at and study and apply teaching in the Savior way would go miles into, like, helping people with their teaching both at home and at church. But we decided, let's discuss teaching principle that can help with teaching in the home, but then let's split up into discussion groups and
instead of having a discussion altogether. Let's say this discussion group is gonna focus on the how to help teach young kids like primary age kids in your home. And then this discussion group is going to discuss how to teach the gospel with teenage, kids. And and so... And I was partly just, like I said in response to what we saw as needs in the ward, and and given the dynamics of our word in particular in other words might not need that,
we felt like that would be helpful. And and the feedback we got was that it it was helpful for people that they enjoyed that. Monica, I don't know what you would add to that. Yeah. No. It was great. It was more like, we'd set it up more like discussion, so we'd kinda do a round table discussion, and it was it was great to hear. You know, you're not the only 1 struggling. This is kind what we've done and it's worked. You know, this kinda how my children react. When we do, come follow me, and we
go, okay, Good. We're all, you know, we're all in this together. Is it know, teenagers or teenagers. And it was fun just to sit and counsel. And I think that's what was helpful is we didn't sit and just teach them what to do in their home, we sat and just did a round table on, k. What works for you, what doesn't work for you? And and so I think that's why it was so well received by parents. So further explain, like, the structure of these these
discussions. So was it, like, it wasn't during the 2 hour block or was it after church or... I mean, what did you do it exactly? So we always did them during the second hour. When we were doing our teacher council meetings, it was during the second hour, and our ward has... Especially the teacher counseling means for parents since our word has 2 gospel doctrine in classes, what we would do is once a quarter, since teacher accounts is usually once a quarter.
Once a quarter, we would say, okay, this room is still gonna have just a regular gospel doctrine class, but for anyone who's interested this other room instead of having gospel doctrine in there, for example, the relief society room. Instead of having gospel doctrine in there today, we're gonna have a teacher council meeting for parents. Today. And so once a quarter, we would we would offer that. And in those start together kind of like I said, discuss
something from teaching in the Savers way. And then when we break out into the discussion circles, and it really was it was usually like just circle chairs together, once when it got big, we would actually have 1 of the discussion circles, go to a different room that was available, the High council room and just does have the discussion there since it was allowed to have 2 discussion circles going at the same time. And so it was...
Just get together and it's okay, what are some of the challenges we're seeing? And what are some of the things we're seeing that are working that what can help with these challenges and it was just getting parents together to talk about Here's a resource we use user. Here's something we've tried to do with our teenagers of having these 1 on 1 conversations with them on a regular basis and try to help with that. That's kinda how we structured it. Yeah. I
love it. And so depending on how many people show up who are interested in that, then, you know like, well, we got a lot of people, maybe we do 3 groups or 2 groups or if it's just a handful people, we'll just stay in the room and have a discussion there. Right? Yep. Nice. Love it. What what else any other dynamics that made that work or things that things that would be worth mentioning? Yeah. I just think the support for teachers
and for parents. For doing, like, the manual said to support teaching at home and at church. I just can't believe how well received it was with how we had structured it. And just just filling that support and you're not alone and just having a place to start with come... You, you know, come follow me at home or at church. It was it was nice just to to talk to each other and go okay. We can do this. We've got this, other people have these challenges or this works for other
people. So I think it's really just the support and and brought it to the forefront, you know, sometimes you go home and you don't think about... You know, I won't think about Oh, come follow me and because I didn't really know how to do it or what it looked like, especially at my stage in life, and it was just nice to talk and and talk with others and and get ideas and go, okay. Nope. I'm not
alone. Yeah. You know, the next store neighbors aren't doing at perfect to either maybe perfectly imperfect for their family, but... Yeah. And it didn't have to look the same. That was the beautiful part about it too is that there isn't 1 structure of how come follow me looks like Garrett was talking. You know, we were all... Our counsel was all at different stages. And
in life. So it's gonna look very different not to compare ourselves to the Jones next door on, Oh, well, they've got They've got charts and pictures hanging on the wall with come follow me, and I'm at home by myself going? Well, I didn't make charts for myself. So is it okay the... Come follow me is just reading the lesson and and and the... Or just reading, come follow me and reading a scripture and and that we don't have to compare to each other It's really individualized.
And it's gonna look different in every home. I think that was the beauty of having the discussions as well. Yeah. We we tried to make it really practical or, like, we... We really tried to say, hey, like, boots on the ground. Like what is actually going on? What are the actual things that are helping the actual questions that you have? And sometimes that came out through surveys, but most openings just through those discussions.
Right? And 1 thing that I think was really beneficial And this goes for teaching in general in the church, but especially in these teacher council meetings and especially when you have parents, teacher accounts meetings for parents. We tried to have these discussions and then give people time at the end to actually think about, okay, what am I taking from? So how am I applying this? Right? And so we would usually list on the board some people's ideas or some people's questions?
And then give, people time at the end either on their own if they were in the class alone to kind of mentally make a note and maybe jot something down under phone, or if they were there with their spouse or or or whomever to talk together. Okay, What does this look like for us? What does this look like for us in the home? And and I heard different parents saying different things. I think we can use videos more on Sundays and here here's how we could maybe
make Sundays more christ centered and think... And and and really try to get really practical with it. And I think if we give some time and some space for the spirit to speak to people, especially parents were trying that artist to to teach the gospel in the home, the spirit can really help and and and and that was always part of the the, teacher council meetings, they talk about planning and inviting.
As part of those teacher council meetings, we tried to make it so that there was always time at the end for parents to make a plan and for us to extend an invitation. And also the regular teacher council and meetings too. But I think it was especially valuable with parents. It's And I know for, like, our award as well. The bishop has really wanted us to focus on the savior. In our teaching, you know, all roads lead back to the savior. And so it was a great way to
get that message out quickly. So we did really try to emphasize the importance of no matter what your come follow me looks like. Bring it back to the savior somehow was really the push in our word with our bishop. And so it was it was a fast quick way to do hands on you know, sending out hands on messages that that were practical for people at church and at home, in a quick.
Way applicable way of so. Yeah. Again, going back to the teaching and the Savior way manual, the first part of it says focus on Jesus Christ and then the first section in that, focus on jesus Christ, a portion of the manual says teach about Christ no matter what you're teaching. No matter what you're teaching about make sure you're focusing on Jesus Christ and teaching about Jesus Christ. I I think we we spent... I don't
know. Maybe half a year in our trainings both for teacher accounts meetings for teachers at church and teach accounts meetings for parents. Just on that idea, right, of making it so that making our gospel teaching and learning as Christ centered, as possible and that extends, like, like Monica mentioned or bishop, Like to
do that with Sac meetings and everything. So, the following the spirit and following our bishop and and the Ward council, but also following the resources that we have out there, there was just some real power to it I'd say. Yeah. Is there anything you did as far as the different types of families? Like, because I know... At 1 time, I was visiting my...
Brother who's older me. He had some teenagers in the house, and I happen to be there when they were sort of gathering for their quick, come follow me review of the day. Right? And I... I spoke I'm like, well, this is interesting. Like, you get... You have, like, teenagers who could make, like, comments and, you know, well thought out perspectives and things and I'm like,
I'm at home with my... 456 year old or whatever, where it's like, you know, we're just keeping a very elementary and and primary ish. You know? And so there's different dynamics of different phase of life. So did you... When you're gathering those parents together? Are you grouping them in certain demographics like that? Yeah. We we recognized that there was a
difference. Right? And and I think that came out even in our presidency meeting that there's a difference in in teaching methods and learning methods, whether you're talking to a 2 year old toddler or you know, 12 year old twain or a 17 year old who's about to graduate and and go off to college go on a mission or whatever the case may be. And so it was with that in mind that when we set up the teacher accounts meetings for parents, we knew we wanted to have
the different discussion circles that... That allowed people to to kinda get more specific and applicable for for them in their situation Right. And so we had the primary age discussion circle pretty much every time we did a teacher council meeting. We had a primary age discussion group, and then, teenage age discussion group. And it was funny to see some parents were like, what if I have both, then we said, well, go to whichever 1 you you feel is best fit best fits what you are
wanting or needing right now. And I feel like a lot of them went to the teenage 1 if they get if they do have kids in both. Yeah. And so that was more... That was a scarier thought to have teenagers teaching, yes. So a lot of them would say, oh, I think I'm gonna go to the teenage 1 today. And then we really tried to get Like, I really wanted to hear from the because I had teenagers at the time seniors, but I really wanted the empty nest to come and just... Share
insight that you're you're gonna make it. It you will survive. It'll it'll it'll all work out, you know, and we we didn't really... That was our 1 our 1 demographic that we didn't really, you know, because they thought, oh, we don't... You know, our kids are grown and where they're out of house and but, yeah, I think that that would have been great to have even empty nest the have multiple grandchildren to come back and just give us, give us
hope and that it'll... It's all gonna work out, you know, raising teenagers and and little ones, but. Yeah. That's awesome. Now did you do the traditional teacher council meetings at the same time, like with your... The called and set apart teachers in the ward, or was that a different time a different meeting? We would rotate through those as... Well, Still hold those once a quarter. They weren't on the same Sunday. Right? Okay. We didn't wanna
spread our presidency tooth in. So we usually would have well let's say we did teacher council meeting for parents, 1 Sunday in a month, and then the next, Sunday might be a teacher council meeting for the call teachers. Either the Sunday school, teachers coming to the teacher council meeting on their off week when they're not teaching, and or then the next Sunday would be the release to Society elders Quorum young men young women, teachers coming again on their off week when they're
not meeting as a as a class. Mh. Nice. And, anything else, and Monica may able will go out to you as far as your role and... Put. I mean, you're obviously, you're you're counseling together during those presidency meetings. You're involved with these teacher counsel meetings, anything else that comes to mind as far as things that you did in that role. I just think yeah. The most important, the the most beneficial 1 was just a perspective of... Of a mother, and and the different age groups.
But I, it it was great to sit and counsel. It was so powerful to have the men and a women together to sit and counsel in different times in life and and just... They they were such powerful councils because we were able to bring so much perspective, in teaching, kinda covered every area of truly teaching in the home and at church. And so and and we were just the, you know, we'd all just sit together as equals at the table, and it was fun. Usually,
snacks and and we'd laugh. We'd... You know, Garrett always have the meeting structured so well. We'd always read little a little bit from teaching in the years away, and that's how we kicked off every meeting of hours. And so we could laugh and joke and half fun and kinda catch up and then 5 that really set the tone and the spirit for the meeting and something that we could focus on. And so the meetings were always structured so well, and I just... Just just sitting there together,
counseling together was just powerful. And, yeah. It it's just... Yeah. Love it. So I can comment a little bit on on the presidency meetings, and even just the presidency des structure, and not that this is how it has to work for everyone and every ward. But for our ward, the way we decided to have and structure it as far as the administrative responsibilities and kind of how we were del different aspects of our job, or our responsibility.
I had 1 of my counselors who supervised directly the adult or Sunday school classes, the gospel doctrine classes and then another 1 who supervised directly the youth, Sunday school classes. My secretary helped with, you know, the administrative task. Such as attendance and agendas and minutes and things like that, but he also had responsibility over the library. Our award building has a resource center a library. And so he would be the 1 over that. And then our teaching advisers, Monica, and
and other sister who was advising. We had them serve as youth subs... Sorry. Substitutes for youth, Sunday school classes. So our gospel doctrine classes, we had you usually just 1 teacher, but it would alternate. So 1 person teaching 1 week in the month, and then the next person teaching the next week, And so if 1 of them was gonna be gone, they would usually just get the other 1 to cover for them or they would swap weeks. But our youth classes we just just had 1 set of teachers.
For the most part, I think all of the ones that we had while I was serving where it was a married couple. And if they were gone, they didn't have a built in substitute. And so we decided to have our sisters that were our teaching advisers be youth substitute Sunday school teachers. And it was cool to see them thrive in that and meant that there was some continuity for the youth. Right? So their regular teacher was gone and there wasn't continuity there. They at least usually had Monica or
Julie there as well. It meant and then I also had, 1 of the sisters in our presidency was over communication with the ward. So, like, in the ward newsletter, letting them know anything that we wanted the war to know about teacher accounts meeting schedules or anything like that. She was in charge of communicating with the war through the newsletter or, the gospel
living app, the circles messages. And so that that was kinda of just the bread and butter the structure of it, but what 1 thing that we loved and Monica mentioned this, it was really important for us to know each other and kind of develop our our, you all, friendships and and the love for each other in the presidency scene. And so we would. We would end up laughing a lot. We would end up studying together a lot. We would have snacks often. Sometimes there were tiers.
Happy tiers, therapeutic tears. Like it was just yet. Yeah. And it was so cool, Kurt. You wouldn't normally think that some of your closest friends would be retired. Empty nest man and someone who's at a totally different stage of life as a... With just brand new kids of young kids or no kids, and then 2 sisters who are also different. But these became somewhat like closest friends. It was so cool. I thought this church is incredible.
Like, it puts people together in ways that you wouldn't think would work, but it does. And and you end up becoming, like, close and caring about each other and helping through, you know, ups and downs and health challenges and other things. So just the... The structure of presidency, There's there's power in that. There's real power in that, and and we got to see that firsthand. Awesome.
I love it. I love it. Any other dynamic principle, approach, activity you did that would be worth mentioning or you give us a good good summary there. Yeah. I guess the only other thing I would mention, Kurt is, what you said, I think that Sunday school, the Sunday school presidency for, you know, generations was in charge of just the second hour Sunday school classes. Right? And just making sure those were staffed and Todd effectively. But when we were called, we...
We decided to be really proactive. And I think when they said Sunday school, you're now a resource for all the gospel teaching and learning at home and at church. That's a game changer. That's a total game changer. And so we we were really proactive When we thought all the time, how can we help? And and some of my... 1 of my counselors said when his dad, Found out that he was in the Sunday school. He's like, oh, you're
gonna hate that calling. It's super boring, and you don't do anything, and he's like, no. We do a lot. We we do a lot, and we try and really help. We had teach accounts meetings for the primary teachers, and that's a challenge since they're teaching every Sunday. To figure out how to do that. We did it you
know, outside of the church block sometimes. We found substitutes for them so that they could, come in and and made during church, and we just tried to find different things that worked best, but we were just really proactive. We went to the primary presidency and said we wanna help. How can we help? We we we really tried to to be a resource, for for them no matter like no matter what.
And as I said, we we try to be creative and think of other things that might help and and so we decided to try to teach accounts we decided to try surveys and other things. And so I think if you really seek inspiration and get passionate about what you're able to do, there's there's some real power there there's some real power there. Yeah. It's just that productivity is is
so crucial in some of these calling. And and again, that I love the the idea you, of just reaching out to the primary or the others quorum and say, hey, I'm I'm here as a resource for all teaching and teaching happens in your organization. You know? So let's do it. Let's let's figure out how to help. Elder Meredith, you just had an interview with elder meredith hurt while back that came through and I listened
to it. And he talked about the difference between being a caretaker and a difference maker. Yeah. Right. And I think that the more we can be difference maker the more. Think that's what God wants. He wants us to make a difference, not just take care of what's going on. Chad Webb, who's now in the general Sunday school presidency.
He he's over... He's the administrator over seminar and institutes in the whole world, and he gave a talk to seminary as while back, and he said, just thinking about sometimes we might ask the question. How can we move the dial or move the needle? So that's not cod. God wants us to move mountains.
Come on just to move mountains. So what can we do to to show the faith and really try and put in the effort to to move mountains and I think whether you're a nurse leader or a Sunday school teaching adviser, which is a made up calling or, whatever you can. There... You can you can really move out. And I think we've seen that and and it's been really, really a powerful blessing to be a part of it. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Well, last question I have for both of you.
And maybe Monica will go to you first, and then Garrett, you can you can lead us out here is... Monica because, you reflect on your time as a leader, especially in this role, you know, as a leader, you could say, you know, in Sunday school, how's is being a leader helped you become a better follower of Jesus Christ. Oh, I would say that...
As a leader, I've prayed for the attributes of the savior for humility patience, purpose and to align my will with God And I think when we try to emulate the savior, it brings us closest to him So to strive to teach, like like the savior, the savior gave such great examples, and I think that that being a leader, yeah, definitely, like, has made me a better follower of the savior or the savior made me a better leader.
It goes both ways, And. Reciprocal. So but trying to live like him, teaching in his way. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Garrett. What about you? How's of being the Sunday school president at this leader, helped to become a better follower of Jesus Christ? I think that when you're a leader you get to spend just a moment in... Hard in the savior place trying to help people. You get to just catch glimpse of how he cares for individuals, the love that he feels
for individual people. And I think that that as a leader being able to to administer 1 on 1 with people is really what what helped me feel close to the savior and help me feel like I was doing what the savior wanted when when you're... When I was Sunday school president, I felt like my, team of people that I was to was my presidency. And so I really tried to think about them and even pray for them by name. Right? And and help.
Them so that then they have the power to then go help their individuals that they're ministry to, their families and and the people they work with a church. But the beauty of that is when when you spend that time trying to minister 1 Wanted of people the way the savior would, you're being minister to in the process. Right? And then after I've been released now. And but I I had those glimpse. I've I had those times, I just can... I can remember how much he cares about
each person. How much the savior really is wanting to help. As saw Karen said, I he's in relentless pursuit of individuals, and I got to see that as a leader, and now I can continue to try to emulate that leading in new calling and leading in my home and leading at work or whatever the case may be.
But but sir serving on a leadership position as a sacred trust, and an incredible privilege and opportunity to to really get closer to the savior and and really try and help out the way he would want us to. So And that concludes this how I lead interview. I hope you enjoyed it, And I would ask you. Could you take a minute and drop this link in an email on social media in a text. Wherever it makes most sense and share it with somebody who could relate to this this
experience. And this is how we how we develop as leaders just hearing what the other guy's doing, trying some things out, testing, adjusting for your area, and that's that's where great leadership discovered. Right? So we would love to have you a share this with somebody in this calling or a related calling, and that would be great. And also, if you know somebody, any type of leader, who would be a fantastic guess on the how I lead segment. Reach out to us. Go to leading scenes
dot org slash contact. Maybe send this in individual email letting them know that you're going to be suggesting their name for this interview, we'll reach out to them and See if we can line them up. So again, go to leading saints dot org slash contact, and there you can submit all the information and let us know. And maybe they will be on a feature how I lead segment on the leading saints podcast.
Remember, up your teaching game by listening to the David Far worth presentation by visiting leading saints dot org slash 14. It came as a result of the position of leadership, which was imposed upon us by the God of Heaven who brought fourth a restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ. And when the declaration was made concerning the own and only true and living church upon the face of the earth. We were immediately put in a position of loneliness. The loneliness of leadership.
From which we cannot shrink nor run away and of which we must face up with bold and courage and ability,