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So my name is Kurt Frankham, and I am the founder and executive director of Leading Saints, and obviously the host of the Leading Saints podcast. Now, I started Leading Saints back in 2010. It was just a hobby blog, and it grew from there. By the time, uh, 2014 came around, we started the podcast, and that's really when it got some, uh, traction and took off. Uh, 2016, we became a 5 0 1 C3 nonprofit organization, and we've been growing ever since.
And now I get the opportunity of interviewing and talking with remarkable people all over the world. Now, this is a segment we do on the Leading Saints podcast called How I Lead, and we reach out to everyday leaders. They're not experts, gurus, authors, PhDs. They're just everyday leaders who've been asked to serve in a specific leadership calling. And we simply ask them, how is it that you lead?
And they go through some remarkable principles that should be in a book that should be behind a PhD. They're usually that good. And, uh, we just talk about, uh, sharing what the other guy's doing. And I remember being a leader just simply wanting to know, okay, I know what I'm trying to do, but what's the other guy doing? What's working for him? And so that's why every Wednesday or so we publish these How I lead Segments to share.
Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Leading Saints podcast. And today we're going to the other side of the globe to chat with a leader in Freetown, Sierra Leone. And really cool to engage with somebody in this part of the world where the church is just booming as far as the growth, the faith there. And it's really fascinating to hear of church leadership's experiences in that part of the world.
Uh, this is with Sar Doe, who is almost joined the church at a young age, has seen a lot of the growth in that part of the world, experienced civil war. I mean, all the, the darkness of the, of, of Civil War in that part of the world came through, has had a lot of health struggles with accidents, things like that. But throughout all this has served as a branch president and mission presidencies. He's currently on the high council of his district. And, uh, just a fascinating guy.
Now, I must, I must admit the connection we had, talking all the way across the world was a bit spotty. There was a delay. Hopefully you don't notice it after our masterful editing. A shout out to Lillian, who helps you with that. Uh, but there was a delay in our conversation about 10 to 15 seconds, which made for more awkward back and forth conversation. So you'll hear that I just ask a direct question and, and wait for his answer to come back.
But nonetheless, some great stories, principles, think about an inspiring man for sure. So, buckle up. Here we go. Here's my interview with sar. Do - My conversion story start, um, in 1988 when I was eight here, and, um, I come across the church and, um, I was not able to get baptized, um, at that age, and I had to wait until I was, um, 13 because my parent, they are Muslims. Um, I, I was from a, well, I'm from a Muslim background, so to speak.
My, my parents were Muslims at that time, so they didn't allow me to get baptized. And, um, I needed to wait, um, for some time until the time was right for me to get baptized. And I was baptized on the 13, uh, on the, when I was 13 year at, uh, um, on the 5th of September, 1993. - Wow, that's awesome. That - Was when I was baptized. - Uhhuh . And then you just spent, uh, you know, those growing up years in the church.
And, uh, what was it like being a member of the church, uh, after your baptism? - Um, it, it was a great experience after my baptism, especially as a, as a child, a teenager, it was a great experience and I, I learned a lot, um, doing primary classes. And, uh, even when I, um, had the opportunity to pass sacrament, uh, for the very first time, it was, it was a great joy for me to see me holding the sacrament tree and passing it around to the, uh, the branch president at that time.
And also the communication. I, I felt, I felt the spirit and I, I was, I was touched with that, and I, I felt belong. - Yeah. Awesome. And, um, at what age did you want to serve a mission? Did you always want to serve a mission? - Yes. Uh, in fact, um, when, when I turned 10 years, um, even before my baptism, I was, I was so, so connected with the missionaries, the, the full-time missionaries and the couple missionaries. And, um, if my memory can serve me right?
I remember even before my baptism, I was sharing pamphlet to my neighbors and to my friends in school, telling them about the church, um, before even my bap. And uh, since that time, I have the desire to grow on a mission. To serve a mission. And even when I was, uh, during the Civil War when I was, I was captured twice by wow, the rebel or the rebels.
And I always knew that, I always knew that nothing will happen to me because, um, I knew that some days, sometimes I was sad a lot, so nothing will happen to me. So I was not even afraid when I was captured by the rivers, um, twice. - Wow. And so wasn't the, the Civil War there also delayed your mission? You, you weren't able to leave at the, at the typical age?
- Yes, absolutely. Yeah. So because of the Civil War, the Civil War actually ended in 2002, and, uh, just after the Civil War ended and we had our election, I, I went to my mission. - Yeah. So maybe tell us about what's it like, uh, being a member of the church there today, uh, with, uh, you know, in in 2024. What, how would you describe the church in, in Sierra Leon?
- Um, in one word, I'll first say is the fastest is the fastest, um, growing church in this part of, um, in the, in this part of Africa. Like, um, Sierra Leone in particular, as I reflect my mind back, um, decades ago to how the church is now in Sierra Leone, it's really a miracle and it's a huge blessing.
And I remember in 2005, um, when I came to Sierra Leone from the Ghana, MTC, um, the area president at that time, present Charles or elder child, elder child, um, in one of our conference told us that the Lord is an east in Sierra Leone, and many things will happen. And in less than, in less than 10 years, we have seen it with so many stakes. And as you can, as you know, we have, um, juah would have about two mission in Sierra Leone, this of July coming.
And we have many states now in Sierra Leon, and we have a lot of church building, church build building, and a temple is going on, and, um, the membership is just, it's just increasing. - Wow. So you do have, there is a temple announced for Sierra Leone, right? - Oh, the temple is under construction right now. - Oh, great. Awesome. And what is the closest temple to you currently? If you need to go to the temple? You - Mean the closest temple? Right now it's Ghana,
and that is where I do my endowment. Oh, - Cool. And that's a few countries over, so it's, it's quite, uh, you have to travel there. - Yeah, it's about three hour flight. - Oh, okay. Uh, what are some of the leadership experiences or leadership callings that you've had there in Sierra Leone? - My first leadership calling was, um, uh, young Men district, um, council in the young men district presidency before I went to my mission.
And, uh, and after my mission, I, I serve as a district eye councilman. And, um, and then after which I was called, um, as a councilor in the, in the district presidency. That was in 2006 after my teaching appointment from the Mt C in Ghana. And, um, after which I was released, um, and then I was called as a branch as, uh, elder president. And later I was also released after probably two to three I was released.
And then, um, I was then called as a branch president, um, for my branch, the Lomb branch, which is now a ward in Sierra Leone. And then I sat for, uh, approximately three, three months. Three to three months, yeah. Three to four. Yeah. And then I, I went to BYU Hawaii and I did one semester. And then when I returned back in 2013, I was called as, um, secretary to the mission presidency, the Freetown Sierra Mission presidency.
Uh, that was in 2013. And in July, in August of 2013, I was called as a first counselor in the mission presidency in Sierra Leon, the Freetown Sierra Mission presidency. And I served, um, with two mission president, um, when, when I was called in the mission presidency, because the first mission president that I served with there was, uh, uh, because of the Ebola, um, um, pandemic, um, the mission president and the senior couples and all the missionary evacuated, um, to the neighboring country.
So I was, um, serving as an assistant mission president at that time during the Ebola. And after which, um, in 2015, um, they called a new mission president. Um, and he arrived in November. And in December I was called as a counselor or as a first counselor to him. So those, those were, um, currently I'm serving as, uh, a stake, a stake high council member, - Uhhuh .
Great. And when you were first called as a branch president, uh, was that something you were nervous about or what did it feel like to be called as a branch president? - Um, I, I, I'll not say that I was nervous, um, about it. Um, the first question that came to me when I was called as a branch president, um, how would I able to, to connect one-on-one and know the heart of the members that I was serve as a branch president? That was a first, um, that was a first thought that came to my mind.
And I, I quite remember that day when the, the mission president called me that I'm going to serve as a branch president for my ward. And I was not actually sure, but I, I, I asked myself, how, how, how am I going to connect to my, to my members? How am I going to know, uh, my members? Am I going to, to understand their spiritual needs and their physical needs, those who are the top plane on my mind?
- Yeah. And then, um, serving in the, the mission presidency, what were some of your responsibilities in that role? - Um, I was assigned, um, to few areas like the McKinney, um, zone, and then the eastern part of itan. My responsibility is to do, to help do temporary recommend interviews and to, um, represent the mission president in few conferences. And also, um, I helped release, um, return mission, I, who returned from the ambition, I released them.
And then I normally, um, the mission president normally delegate me to go with him to do interviews whenever we are calling district presidency or branch presidency, especially district presidency. So I normally go with the mission president and we, we do the, um, the interviews together. - And then what, um, in that role in the mission presidency, what's are some principles that you learned about leadership serving in that, in that role?
- Yeah, so one, one of the leadership qualities that I learned is that, um, to a willing heart, um, nothing is impossible no matter the age, no matter the educational background, uh, but as long as you have a willing heart, um, you would able to to do the lots work. And then I also, um, learned re return and report and, uh, and most time the mission president will assign me, um, to various district, and then he would, um, at the end of the day want me to return and report back to him.
And then how would also want the, the district presidency or the branch presidency, especially district presidency that I was working with, to also return and report. And in doing that, it helps the Lord's work move very smoothly, and it help us understand the needs of the district and of the mission.
And it also help us to get connected, um, with the leaders one-to-one, both spiritually and physically in returning a report, - I'm, I'm curious with working with the young missionaries, um, the, this message of the willing heart, nothing, you know, to a willing heart, nothing is impossible. How did you teach that principle to the young missionaries as they came through?
- Um, you know, um, as, as, as, as working with the young missionary and, and you can see the anxiety on them, on their faces, and wanting to know exactly how they can go about their mission or how life after mission will look like, and I would normally help them to understand that, um, when you have a willing heart in doing the Lords work, nothing will be impossible for that. Um, I'll give you an example.
For instance, um, a return missionary or a full-time missionary, you and your apartment, I remember, um, talking to few, um, missionaries, full-time missionaries, and I told them that if you have an appointment, which your investigators and you find it very difficult, um, to leave your apartment to go out that day, you feel homesick or you feel tired, or the investigators are not receptive, as long as you have that will in mind, that will in heart
to leave your apartment in the morning and to go out and teach the gospel, or in other words, pro slight, as long as you have that will in heart, when you go to your investigators or to the members who is going to help you to refer you to the investigators, every tool will be possible because those members or those investigators will be prepared by the Lord, not by you as a missionary. So I told them in a nutshell that the first thing that you need to have is to have a willing heart.
And when you have a willing heart, the Lord will help you in whatever thing that you are doing. - That's great. I love that. Um, is, is the, are most of the missionaries in the, the Sierra Leone area, are they mainly from other African countries? - Yes. Mainly in Nigeria, Ghana, and then Ivory Coast. And then we have, um, we have missionary from America also full-time
missionaries. That's - Great. And were the mission presidents that you served with, were they African or were they from the, another country outside of Africa? - They're from, um, outside of Africa. The one is from, the second one that I summit, um, was from New York. And then the other one I think is from Salt Lake. And then the, the first one that I also serve with is from Montana. That is President that I serve as a secretary to.
- Awesome. I'm curious with, there's so much success that may a missionary can experience by coming to Sierra Leone, and what advice would you give to a new missionary who's coming to your country to, to serve as a missionary? - Um, the first advice I'll give to, to them is love the people and love the country. That would be the first two advice I would give to them.
To love the people and love the country, and also to be more focused in what they are coming to do as a missionary in helping, um, the people of Sierra Leone to come onto Christ. And they should also have it in their mind that the people of Sierra Leone are in haste, um, to listen to the gospel of Jesus Christ and to come onto Christ. So that would be my, my advice, advice that I would give to them, to love the country and love the people. - Awesome. I love that.
Um, and then in your, uh, in your current role as a, on the high council, uh, do you go around, uh, and, and speak at different, at different, uh, branches or wards or what did you, what are your responsibilities on the high council? - Uh, my responsibility, uh, is, um, assigned to the, uh, single adult. Cool. And then once in a while, um, the, the state present, who would assign, would assign, would assign me. - Tell me about the principle you put down here as far as being grateful.
How has that, uh, been a leadership principle for you? - Um, in, in Sierra Leon, we live, we live, um, in this part of Sierra, we are in, things are very difficult. Things are very hard, and life is, life seems very challenging. Um, after the Civil War and after the Ebola outbreak and the coronavirus, um, that hits, um, Sierra Leon very hard.
And when you are grateful to those that you are working with, you are grateful for their time, they're talent, their resources, their ability, um, it'll help them to understand how important they are in help building the kingdom of God and wanting, I learned from President Inkling, he said, gratitude is a sign of maturity.
And when we are grateful to, when we are grateful as a leader to those that we are helping, or to those that we are helping to grow, um, they feel more important, they feel more loved, and they always have the desire to do more. And that is one greatest thing, um, that I've learned about being grateful. And I normally crack a joke, and I said, most time we have, um, two rooms in, this is just sad, one and two, it's not, it's, it's just a joke.
Um, uh, I normally said, there are two rooms in heaven. You have the prayer room and then you have the request room, the gratitude room, the prayer room is always full with, with request. But the gratitude after Heavenly Father has answered our prayer, will forget back and return to the gratitude room and said, heavenly Father, I thank you for answer my prayer. So, and heavenly Father is always, is always, always happy for people who are grateful.
And when you have a grateful heart, no matter the circumstances, no matter your predicament and your challenges, you have the comfort to do more. And the Lord always grant you that comfort. And that is how grateful Heart has, uh, gratefulness have helped me, uh, in my leadership principle. And the, uh, and the more you are grateful, the more you receive more blessings. Wow. - Tell me about, find an excuse to win. - Yeah. Find finding an excuse to win.
It's one greatest lesson that has, has even helped me in my current, um, circumstances. So in my current situation, um, being on a wheelchair after my accident, um, no matter the, the, the challenges that we face in life, no matter how difficult, uh, the taxis, no matter how difficult your calling is, no matter how, how hard your colonies or your responsibility is that they are assign you to, we must always find an excuse to win.
And there is nowhere in the scripture from Genesis to Revelation where in heaven, father said, life is going to be easy. He didn't say that. What is said to us that, um, if we enjoy to the end and do the things that are right, we'll see into heaven and nearby, we may have call in a state of never ending in ending happiness. And when do you have the desire to find an, uh, to find an excuse to win? You'll never complain. You'll never moment, you'll never, um, say, this job is too big for me.
You'll never say, this calling is too big for me. You'll never use the word, I cannot. I'm afraid I'm tired. You'll have all those words. So in finding an excuse to win, it's one key road that has helped me in my leadership principle. I remember there was a time when the mission president said I should go to, to McKinney during the Ebola to go and create a new branch. And people were afraid to go to McKinney to travel.
But when the mission president called me in Ghana that, um, president, do you need to go to McKinney and create this new branch? And I told the mission president that, um, despite, uh, the lockdown, I'll find an excuse to get a pass to travel to McKinney and I'll get the job done. So that is how powerful, finding an excuse to win you. You go all out no matter how, how, how difficult the tax may look like.
When you have that mind, that mindset and finding an excuse to win, you go all out to get the job done. And when you get the job done, um, you receive the blessing of comfort and of peace. And in a nutshell, or in one word, you would release what we call you release some endo. Fancy that, yes, despite the tax, that was too heavy for me, I was able to get this job done. - And how long have you been in your wheelchair? - Um, on the 28th of April will be eight years.
- Wow. And then the last principle you put here is you are in control of your pain. What, tell me more about that lesson. - Well, um, nobody's in control of our pain. We, we have to be in control of our pain. And, uh, that is one great leadership quality principle that I also learned. And that reminds me of the savior, Jesus Christ. When, um, one of his disciples, um, took his cross from him, I think it was Peter who helped the savior to carry his cross.
And then it could not even to take the cross to the calvary because that was not his pin, it was a savior pin. The Savior took the cross back from him and carried the cross to Calvary. And that is, that is an example. Um, we, we all have our pain. We all have, um, our trials, we all have, um, our difficult times in life, and we have to be in control of, um, our pain. And when we are in control of our pain, we, we are able to accomplish the most difficult facts.
We are able to accomplish taxes, facts that people will think that it is not possible to, to accomplish. And most time, I I I would tell, uh, the single adult and the missionary that I was assigned to that, um, as a missionary, you should always strive as much as you can to be in control of your pain because you have the responsibility, you have the tax to execute your duty. - That's great. Uh, any other leadership stories that come to mind that would you'd like to share?
- Yes. I think it was in 2016 when the mission president for Sierra Leone by the name of President Clause, we went to the, the district center at Kii to call the new district president. We went into the room and we sat down and we start doing interviews. We interview branch presidents, we interview elder current president, we interview her, I councilman.
And after the interview, it reached to a point that me, the mission president and myself went down lower nails and we start to pray about whom the Lord should called after the interview. And in that process, the mission president felt the spirit to called um, a brother, um, to be the, uh, the district president and to be a councilor in the district presidents. And the mission president asked me how I feel about it, how I felt about it.
And because of there was some past to that I know about the brother, and I told the mission president that I'm not sure he'll be good for the calling. I said that. And the mission president, uh, did not deny that what I said to him. Um, we went back home, he went to the mission home and I returned to my home. And that night I was disturbed. I was not able to sleep, I was not. And the next day, even when I was driving my car to go to my office, I was steal the stop.
And the spirit keep telling me that repentance is the sweetest part of the gospel of Jesus Christ and whom the Lord called the Lord qualify. And the spirit keeps telling me that none of us are righteous in our calling.
But one thing that pierced my mind so much that I would never forget in my life, it was when I have a butterfly on my body, and this was a thought whom the Lord called the Lord, qualify I should go back and tell the mission president and sustain the mission president to call that brother in the district presidency. And I called the mission president that night and I told him about how I felt after the interview and how pissed I was.
And I explained to him, and during the district conference, that product was called as a council in the district presidency. And that brought a turn up to be a great leader in the district presidency. And that is one principle that I have learned also, that the Lord is not looking onto our weaknesses. And when we are calling to leadership, calling the Lord has seen two things in us. This is what I believe.
He has seen some good quality in you that he would want you to impact in the life of other members that you are leading. And you have also seen a weakness in you that he would want you to strengthen doing your calling or whatever calling you'll be serving at that moment. Because callings our pause to strengthen our weaknesses and help us to grow and those weaknesses also would turn to be a blessing to those that we're serving. - Wow, that is so awesome.
Uh, any other stories come to mind that you'd like to share about leadership? - Yes. Um, that, that I was also serving in a district presidency. That was in 2006. Um, there was a time when we have the largest district in Sierra Leone, um, with 13 branches. And I was in the district presidency serving as a second councilor.
And the district presidents, um, by the name of President Bundu car always taught us how we can able to, to reach out to, to the members and to understand their needs and to help them to, to grow spiritually and physically, especially in the self-reliance world. Um, how they can able to be independent and self-reliance and help them to, to pay their tied in and their fast offing. And sometimes we would say to the district president that, how are we going to accomplish that tax?
And the district president will always say to us that, um, brothers, you have been called all what the, the Lord want from you is to go healthier and talk to these brothers, to these leaders and help them to do the right thing and to stand tall and to stand faithful and also to be committed to their calling and to love their members.
And for me, that principle of perseverance, I've also been be a blessing onto me in my life and in the life of my families and even those that I'm serving with right - Now. Awesome. Those are awesome stories and really helpful principles. Um, anything else that we missed before we wrap up? - Yes. Um, I, I don't know if we talk about the, the principle of listing. - Okay. Teach us more.
- One of the principle that I also learned is, I dunno if we talk about listing, listing and listing is one, um, another very important principle that also help help me in my leadership role.
And the way these have helped me in my leadership role is by listen, paying attention, um, to what leaders are saying to what members are saying, listening to them with patient, with love, with understanding, and also putting yourself in their own shoe of what they're explaining to you or helping you to understand.
And when, when we listen, um, to those that we are, we are assigned to, to serve would, would always able to understand their needs and would able to understand what they are saying and what they want to be done and how we can able to help them to go spiritually and physically.
And heavenly father and the savior of Jesus Christ is one great example of listening because even when we are praying to our dear kind father and heaven, he always listen to us without even interrupting us when we are praying because he wants us to know what we are saying. He want to understand us, and he want to harness our prayer.
As we apply that same principle to those that we are serving and to those that we are helping to grow, we become more attentive to them and listen to their needs, would always have the spirit on how to, to help them in life or in their circumstances. So that is one principle also that have helped me in my, in my leadership calling and preach my gospel, talk about Muslim scale.
And it's one great attribute for missionaries because if you do not listen, you'll never able to know the concern of that individual and you'll never able to resolve their concern or help them resolve their concern. Because as I'm speaking to you right now, you also are listening to me to actually understand what I'm saying, to understand my accent and also to understand the point that I'm trying to make.
So listing is one of the greatest, um, principle that have also helped me in my leadership calling, and it is very, very important and it takes patient to listen to someone. Yeah. - Awesome. Well, uh, this is, it's been so fun to explore your leadership experience and understand a little bit more about the church in Sierra Leone. And, um, I, I'd love to come visit someday and, uh, meet you in person and, and meet the other great people there.
Um, and as the last question I have for you is, how has being a leader helped you become a better follower of Jesus Christ? - I I love that question. And there is a saying that I always say that great followers become great leader and great leader, become great followers. When you are a great leader and you are released into your, um, into your leadership position and become a member sitting in the congregation, you become a great followers. You become a great follower.
And I remember quite well when I was released in the district presidency, the first Sunday that I was, um, that I attend my home branch, I asked the branch president, if I can pass the sacrament and the branch president give me that, that opportunity to go back and sit and pass the sacrament. And I felt so happy serving, passing the sacrament to my branch president and to my members who I was once presiding over.
It makes me feel very humbled, very polite, and it helped me to feel the spirit more. - And that concludes this how I lead interview. I hope you enjoyed it. And uh, I would ask you, could you take a minute and drop this link in an email, on social media, in a text, wherever it makes the most sense, and share it with somebody who could relate to this, this experience.
And this is how we develop as leaders, just hearing what the other guy's doing, trying some things out, testing, adjusting for your area. And, uh, that's, that's where great leadership's discovered, right? So we would love to have you, uh, share this with, uh, somebody in this calling or a related calling and that would be great. And also if you know somebody, uh, any type of leader who would be a fantastic guest on the How I Lead segment, uh, reach out to us, go to leading saints.org/contact.
Maybe send this in individual an email letting them know that you're going to be suggesting their name for this interview. We'll reach out to them and, uh, see if we can line 'em up. So again, go to leading saints.org/contact and there you can submit all the information and let us know and maybe they will be on a feature how I lead Segment on the Leading Saints podcast. Remember, go listen to Dan Duckworth's presentation about youth mentorship by visiting leading saints.org/fourteen.
- It came as a result of the position of leadership, which was imposed upon us by the God of Heaven, who brought forth a restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ. And when the Declaration was made concerning the o and Only True and Living Church upon the face of the earth, we were immediately put in a position of loneliness. The loneliness of leadership from which we cannot shrink nor run away. And to which we must face up with boldness and courage and ability.