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So my name is Kurt Frankham, and I am the founder and executive director of Leading Saints, and obviously the host of the Leading Saints podcast. Now, I started Leading Saints back in 2010. It was just a hobby blog, and it grew from there. By the time, uh, 2014 came around, we started the podcast, and that's really when it got some, uh, traction and took off. Uh, 2016, we became a 5 0 1 C3 nonprofit organization, and we've been growing ever since.
And now I get the opportunity of interviewing and talking with remarkable people all over the world. Now, this is a segment we do on the Leading Saints podcast called How I Lead, and we reach out to everyday leaders. They're not experts, gurus, authors, PhDs. They're just everyday leaders who've been asked to serve in a specific leadership calling. And we simply ask them, how is it that you lead?
And they go through some remarkable principles that should be in a book that should be behind a PhD. They're usually that good. And, uh, we just talk about, uh, sharing what the other guy's doing. And I remember being a leader just simply wanting to know, okay, I know what I'm trying to do, but what's the other guy doing? What's working for him? And so that's why every Wednesday or so we publish these how I lead segments to share.
Today we're going to Switzerland with Christiani Laer. How are you, Christiani? - I'm fine. - Great. - Fine. Thank you. Thank you. That we can meet. - Yeah, for sure. And, uh, it's, it's about lunchtime for me and it's about bedtime for you. So I'm excited to have this conversation and make it work across time zones. So maybe just give us a little bit of background about you and your, uh, are you born and raised in that part of the world?
- Yes. Uh, I was born and raised in, uh, Switzerland, uh, in Baren area. And, um, yeah, I lived here all my life. Uh, my father is Swiss. Uh, my mother though is Canadian. Um, but she moved here when my parents got married. - Nice. Awesome. And then how would you describe the, the church in your, in your part of the world, - I guess compared to like your part of the world or other growing parts of the world? It's always been more of a modest number.
Like, uh, the Saints in Switzerland are somewhere around, I guess between nine and 10,000. Um, we have one temple, but very important one. Mm-Hmm. . Um, there are five states. Um, the, they're like, Switzerland is part of three missions, which is, uh, very interesting. We have four national languages or, or official languages, uh, spoken in Switzerland. That makes it, uh, very interesting. Also at church, like, uh, you'll have some areas or some wards who are, have a French and a German ward.
Um, so where it's, um, I, I would say the the Swiss Saints are, are modest and sober, but, um, believing Yes. Yeah. - Awesome. So how does that language, all those, the diversity of languages show up at, at church on Sunday? Are there multiple languages happening there? - Yes. Uh, there, there are, like, uh, in, in the Stake I am, we have, for example, in some words, there are several also, uh, Spanish speaking members.
So they try to accommodate that and have like Spanish, uh, um, Sunday school and, uh, yeah, just for those members. And, uh, in, in other wards where there, like I said, in bi, that's one, that's the word where my mother goes to, that's always been bilingual. So there have always, over the years been a French word and a German word, and they kind of meet on Sundays. They alternate one year, first of the French word and then the German word, and then the other year, uh, changes again.
Wow. So I guess, and of course we have lots of expats also, maybe not as much as we used to have. Um, uh, English speaking, um, members who work, uh, in Switzerland. And, uh, so, uh, in some words, uh, they're also English speaking Sunday schools or meetings. Yeah. Mm-Hmm. - . Yeah. And then, um, you've been a, a, is it a two-time relief study president? - Yes. Uh, I've changed, um, mistakes that, uh, three times I grew up in, um, in the Baren State when it still was a district.
And then I moved to the Zurich State after my mission because I was working in Zurich over a while. And then, um, the, the state Zurich State was, um, parted and then we had a Sanal stake, and that's where I was, um, that's my first round of Relief Society president. And then we moved back to the parent Stake 10 years ago. And now for two and a half years I've been really Society president. - Yeah. And - Then it's my second round. Yeah. - So how many or what languages do you speak?
- Uh, well German Okay. And then, um, some French and, uh, English. Yeah. Right. - And so on, uh, church on Sunday, generally it's, it's German, what you're going to hear in the hallways and things, right? - Yes. Yes. In our parts of Switzer. Yes. Could be German, Swiss German. - So tell us about, um, you know, just starting in that, in that role, maybe most specifically the second time, um, what, what concerns came to your mind as you were beginning that?
I mean, what, what obstacles were you faced with first? - Well, I was surprised. You know, I don't, I didn't think I would be asked a second time, uh, to fulfill that calling. And, uh, I, I think what was the most important part, uh, of being called is I really wanna make sure that, um, the, the state presidency was inspired, I guess, , that was really important to me.
And, uh, I only found out much later that the state president actually didn't knew that I had a first round and I calling and he said, if I would've known, I don't know. So for me, that's why it was so important. Um, - So are you the Stake Relief Study president? Maybe I missed something. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, I missed that detail. Okay. So you're, sorry. And this is your second time as the Stake Relief study? Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. And had you ever been Ward Relief signing firm?
Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. - Gotcha. I guess in Switzerland, how should I say? If, if, if you take church serious, I guess you'll have all the callings once in your life. So I've been in the primary presidency. I've been twice in the young women's presidency, and, um, once as a ward, uh, release society president, and now twice, um, besides other callings. Yeah. - Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, um, how many words are in your stake then? - Uh, to begin, we had eight units, and then they had to close one.
And so now it's seven. Actually, it's very modest. It's not, you know, like it's still some distances I have to travel, like between, uh, one and a half hours and, uh, and, uh, a half an hour to the next ward. - Yeah. And then what, what does that routine typically look like? What, how do you decide what ward to visit, and then what do you do when you visit - There?
Um, visit, well, if, if, uh, if it's Swar conference, um, uh, we visit the all, uh, the wards and, um, branches together with the state presidency Mm-Hmm. And I'm also invited to be part of the, uh, the meeting, uh, the, how should I say, before the conference starts. So we get together and I really, uh, appreciate that we get together with, um, the board leadership, the Bishop Break, or branch presidency, and the Elvis Quorum and, um, relief Society president.
So that helps me every time to kind of get to know what's happening in the board. And you kind of get a feel for the dynamic in the board, and especially also for the communication between, um, Bishop and, uh, relief Society. I always think that's, uh, important to, to feel how that's going.
Yeah. And then, yeah, I, we usually have then, uh, a meeting with the Relief Society presidency, but we also do it since Covid, of course, that has, I guess for you two has changed lots of how we do meetings. Most of the meetings nowadays, um, are over Zoom. Yeah. Because of the distance. So what we do is, on a regular basis, we have Zoom calls with the really study P of each, um, ward or branch Mm-Hmm, - .
Yeah, that makes sense. And it's probably a little more efficient as, as we've headed that way with Zoom meetings and whatnot, especially when distance - Is involved. - So as you, um, talk with your Relief society presidents, in various words, uh, across your stake, what are sort of the main concerns they're, they're worrying about, um, in their, in their callings? - Well, I think, um, maybe as generally in a, um, in, in the Western world, people are just overburdened with activity.
Um, so much is pulling us and we, it's hard sometimes to decide where to set priorities. And then the other thing is, I guess generally women, um, suffer from a bad conscience because they think, oh, I should do this and I should do that. And, um, and, and they kind of feel responsible for, very often for the welfare of a, of a whole ward and how things are developing or when problems arise.
And I think one of the, the problems that I realize now that wasn't there in my, in my first presidency round, uh, 10 years ago, is that the, the problems, especially with the young members, uh, with the youth, so many, uh, mothers in, in the relief society now worry about, um, especially their daughters suffering from depression, suicidal, um, uh, problems that, that arise.
I can, I can see how social media, like the first time I had that calling, social media was in existence in, in, in our area, maybe already in the States, but not where, uh, where we were. It was not such a thing. And, uh, but now you can see how, what influence it has, especially on, on the self-esteem of women in general, but especially on the young women.
Um, so that's, I I would say that's probably one of the biggest challenges, uh, we have that we kind of wanna, um, portray a picture of ourselves as, as women, as mothers, as leaders. And, uh, we kind of feel like we cannot, um, um, do the part we would like to do. We kind of, we're kind of always thinking we're underperforming. I think that's maybe, I hope that comes across All right. Uh, I think that's one of the ver worries, uh, sisters have.
So if we plan activities, it, it's, um, the like stake activities, the attendance is, is pretty modest. - Yeah. And, and you know, that, uh, I guess I shouldn't be too surprised. I mean, I think if you were asked, uh, uh, stake Relief Society President or Ward Relief Society President here in the United States, they would probably, the answer is something similar. You know, people are worried about, uh, mental health.
They're worried about their children, you know, and, and just the world we live in with social media and all this, it just seems like it's coming from, from every angle, uh, that the, the attack, you know, it's, so, yeah. Um, so let's just focus in on like your role when you think of like, specific principles that have, that have served you well, or things that you keep coming back to as you strive to be an eff the effective leader of what, what, what are one of those principles?
- I think for myself, it's always been, um, conversion. I think the need, uh, let me, I'm sorry. I put on glasses, otherwise I can't be . Um, but, uh, the prophet said in his, uh, the plea to my sisters, I don't know if that was in 2000, I think thousand 15, uh, general conference. And, uh, where he says, uh, he also quotes, um, Spencer w Kimball. And, um, the prophet says, my dear sisters, nothing is more crucial to your eternal life than your own conversion.
It is converted covenant keeping women, um, who stand out in a deteriorating world. So for me, that that is, that is actually central that women understand that conversion. And I think conversion has lots to do with if you're willing to, to make and keep covenants and understand them. And that will lead to the next point that the prophet has, has told the women to understand them, the, the oath, uh, and, and the covenant of the priesthood.
And I think too, too many, uh, women in our church don't understand, uh, uh, the power and authority they have through the priesthood. And that's actually, that's my focus. I, uh, I would like to have, because I can see it in my own life, how important or crucial, uh, conversion has been. Uh, when we look around, I can see, uh, you know, um, women bright and intelligent, uh, women leaving the church because maybe for whatever reasons.
And, uh, I just feel that my conversion has been my anchor, especially in, in times where, um, where there were doubts and I think everyone has them. - Yeah. Yeah. And then how does that, you know, that that focus, that feeling you have of the importance of conversion, um, how does that manifest or communicated through your calling? Is this something you're talking about the wardly side presence a lot? Or at, in, in ward conferences, or what comes to mind?
- Um, yeah, I, I think I, I think I, I always make it a, um, what's a priority to, to bear my testimony. And I think there's a big difference. Like the, the word to bear testimony is like, you know, caring, it's a burden. It's, and you have to, um, you have to kind of show that, that you mean it, uh, in German, you, you say it different. You say you share your testimony, you don't use the word bearing. And I think, uh, that makes, so you mentioned that - That is really strange that we do that.
I don't know why we Yeah. Use that word, but it, yeah. It's in our vernacular. - Well, I, I think that's actually, it's pretty accurate because a, a testimony is a burden, but it is a light burden because we carry it in Christ. And, um, to, to me, I think bearing my testimony, especially about covenants and keeping covenants and how it can, uh, transform us into women of God. And, and then I just also, which is not always easy.
I, I would like the women, um, to, to follow the call of, uh, the prophet who said that we need to step forward. We need to be heard. So, um, I guess I, I make sure that I, I participate in our, in all the councils and if, if also in meetings with the state presidency in, um, state councils or wherever I am. And if I'm asked or, or if it, if there's a chance where I can bring in my perspective, my council, my inspiration, um, then I will make a point of doing it.
- Yeah. Is it, uh, sometimes difficult for you to step forward in those meetings, uh, those council meetings? Yes. Not what, yeah. Yeah. Tell me about that. - Uh, like one , I, I was stepping forward and saying to my stake president, besides visiting the wards on, um, on ward conferences, I would like to visit each ward during the year and give a, give a talk.
But 15 minutes in and in fulfillment of my calling, as I see it, as Emma also received it, Indian C 25, you know, that I will read the scriptures, interpret them, and teach, teach the members about it. And I also als always make the, the scriptures and the teaching teachings of God and of the prophets central in my talks. And I would like the members to, to, to hear the voice of women. It's not me, it's my calling.
But I think the state president and I, he, we haven't kind of found the pattern yet. Yeah. That, um, that fits. I, we were just discussing the, the new handbook of the church. I mean, they're doing some changes, and it says in there that the stake president, uh, can decide on who he sends forth to, to teach and give talk. So it's in, actually in his responsibility or in his ability to do that, he doesn't wanna make a rule out of it. So that, that's another big change.
Like, uh, in the state before where I was serving as Relief Society president, uh, the, the state president was just so glad that I took the initiative. He, whatever I wanted to do, and whichever initiative I, I brought forth, he said, go ahead and do it. He was just glad that, um, yeah, I was, I was putting in, uh, yeah, all this effort. And I think that's what we should, um, be happy about.
I mean, I, I think in my calling, I would really wanna go forth as a, as a, as a teacher, as someone who brings the word of God, um, in, in this authority of this, um, of this calling. But not everybody is happy about that. They, they think it's, it's too progressive. - Hmm. But nonetheless, you, you put your, put your voice forward. And like you said, sometimes some leaders, they're may be more open to different changes. Other leaders aren't, but they, yeah.
I guess the point is being in practice of putting your voice forward and being heard and, and not backing down even when maybe your idea's discouraged. - Yeah. I, I've decided I'm not gonna back down. Yeah. I'm gonna keep, uh, bringing in my ideas as I, I, as I see fit, as I, I feel inspired. I like to bring the story that, or the experience I once had as a, as a young mother years ago, uh, my son was getting baptized and he invited, uh, a friend from school.
And not only did this friend come who was also eight years old, but he brought his entire family with him. So we were so excited. I thought to myself, wow. And it was really a special family. They lived close by where we lived. And, uh, I was really excited and I thought, wow, this is the perfect, um, how should I say? Perfect show of, uh, meeting of the church is a baptism. I always think, I mean, I don't know how you, I just love baptism.
So I mean, people are just so joyful and happy, and everyone comes together. And, and, um, but then the mother of this friend came up to me and asked, I asked her after, it's how she experienced it and how it was, she says, oh, I, I really loved it. It was great, but where are all the women in your church? And I only realized then that at that baptism, my son had asked, of course, his cousins to speak and his grandfathers, and, and while he was baptized by his father and everything.
So it was just really just men leading, talking, praying. I, I, I think maybe there was one woman praying, but that was it. And I hadn't realized that when we were planning, uh, that, um, meeting. But it was too bad because I know this family, they joined another church within weeks after, and I knew they were, they were searching for a, a church where they would feel comfortable. And it was, it was a lesson to me that we cannot just expect people to know that women are special in our church.
They have to be visible, but not everyone feels the same. I, I would like the relief society presidents in each board to be seen during sacrament meeting, to be seen as the leaders of that board to sit up front. Um, some do it. And they've had really great experiences.
They're, they really also received a testimony on how important it's because not only are they seen, but they see the members, which for a long time they didn't realize, you know, when someone had problems, you can see so much just sitting up front. I'm sure you have that experience as well, just sitting up front and seeing who's coming, who's going, who's not there, who's maybe a bit stressed or whatever it is.
And I think it's important for the relief society also to notice, um, um, these dynamics of award. But, um, uh, I would say there's, uh, this is, um, how would I say? Some people think it's a good idea, idea, some members, and they support the idea, and others, uh, are not happy at all about it, I think. - Yeah. Yeah. - But I don't, I don't know how it is in the states. I mean, it's only been about five or six years where the young women stand at the doors, uh,
in our, in our ward. Hmm. They - Do the sacrament meeting or during the passing of the sacrament. - Yeah. Right. And some even, uh, would assist the bishop in whatever he needs during sacrament meeting, know, sitting next to the bishop. And so for me, uh, that having the young women also visible in a, uh, sacrament meeting, that for me is a big step forward too.
And for the young women also to realize that they have responsibilities, uh, not all only, uh, just being there, but being part of the meeting, contributing, uh, by, uh, yeah. Being at the door or being the assistant to the bishop and, and, you know, whatever needs to be done. - Yeah. I really appreciate it.
You, you're bringing that up as, like you said, some people, they may be, they may think that's, it's maybe too, too outside the box to have the relief society presidency sit on the stand, or even a relief society president alone, sit on the stand.
Uh, but I think it's important to recognize, and every bishop or Bishoprick knows this of the value of being able to, to appear into the eyes of those attendings, meaning, and or kinda seeing who's there, who's not, who's, you know, just gauging the, you know, from the look on their face. Wow. I mean, they seem like they're, some, they're going through something, I'm gonna reach out or whatnot.
And so, uh, regardless of if you actually, you know, implement something, what that gives the looseside president the same experience, just, just processing and taking this, uh, this question to God as a, as a bishoprick or as a word council, of how can we make the women more visible in our church, uh, routines and experiences and meetings and whatever it is. So that Mm-Hmm. those visiting that can pick up on those cues.
Right. That 'cause Yeah. If you're visiting one of our churches, you, you don't, you probably don't realize that there's a whole organization for women that they meet together and it's a beautiful thing. Yeah. But you, you sort of have, need some visual cues or some type of cues to, to really make sure they get a better idea of that experience. Right?
- Yes. Well, to me, it's, you know, I go to the temple and for me, uh, the, the balance there is much more visible where I moved to, if it is in an endowment room or if it is just entering, you have this balance of, of, of visual. You see men and women serving together. And sometimes I miss that in our meeting rooms, in just, you know, in a regular church. So I, I think, I think we can do more. Yeah. We can do more. - It's worth, it's worth considering.
And again, we don't have the, you know, the five point plan that's gonna solve every reward's issue with this or whatnot. But it's, it's a question worth taking to God and, and pondering over to see how - Yes, yes, yes. Awesome. Well, to me, to me it's, yeah, it's been, and especially, uh, we had, uh, um, area authority elder, uh, from Germany, uh, uh, visit us in, um, may this year for steak, for steak carpets. And to me, that was also a pivotal moment.
Um, I don't know if, if the church in the US is so much aware, but for, for many years now, this is my experience. You always kind of feel like, yeah. Which is there they come and visit us and say, Switzerland is beautiful, but we know that we are just not really that important for the growth of the church, or the stability of the church, or whatever it is.
It's kind of like, they're just kind of entertaining us and unhappy where they're, but to have a, um, area authority come and say, uh, I'm paraphrasing here that, that we are the motor in Europe and because also 'cause of the temple and how important this is for the growth of the church, and maybe our growth is a bit different.
I can see, and the statistics that, you know, up to, I would say the end of the fifties, the members, many of the members in Switzerland, they immigrated to, uh, the us Well, more specific of course, to Utah. Yeah. And then, um, my father-in-law was one of the first ones he was living in the US when, uh, general authority came up to him and say, he has to go back to Switzerland and build up a church there. And he then became the first, uh, state president.
But, and then you can see between the fifties and the sixties, the church made almost double in, uh, membership because of course we could retain the members here. And ever since then, we've been trying to catch up with, with the growth we had before, but everyone leaving, of course. It was really, it was really hard. So, - Yeah. - And we have some really great pioneer families. And, um, and with that came the, the, the, the building of the temple in, in Switzerland.
And I, I think not many members, not even in Switzerland, are, are aware of how pivotal that moment was also for the growth in Europe, because, uh, Switzerland was for, for three years. It was the only temple in Europe. And, uh, all the members came from all over the countries came to Switzerland. That was quite, um, a sacrifice they made to come here.
But I think that sacrifice, that willingness to, to, to travel for a covenant, for a covenant with God, I mean, what kind of a, a blessing is this also, I can see it from my parents. They were sealed in the Swiss temple. It's, it's just beyond words. I think we, we don't even understand how much that really, um, uh, I would say directs, directs our life.
And I, that's actually my, the, the kernel, or I would say the pearl of my testimony is, uh, the temple and the privileges and the covenants and the blessings that go with it. - Yeah. Yeah. That heritage is so important. And I think on both sides of the globe, we're, we're always grappling with that, of, of trying to remember the sacrifice of where we come from.
'cause now, you know, uh, uh, through the, the miracle of, of President Nelson and what he's doing with Temple Building, I mean, which is beautiful. Yeah. But, uh, the temple experience is a little bit different when, you know, it's 10 minutes down the road or, or even yeah. A few hours or whatever it be. So, uh, yeah. Any other, any other principle or concept, uh, come to mind that we need to make sure we hit before we wrap up? Or, - I dunno.
I think with the changes that President Nelson has initiated, uh, just since he's been the prophet of the church, I don't think the members really understand the, the depth, uh, of, um, what it means. Just for example, uh, teaching, family teaching of, uh, of, of principles that, that actually, it, it the place where, where we are taught and where we build our, our, our testimony, um, because in the next life, well, you know, it's gonna be families.
It's not gonna be, we're not gonna have state conferences or whatever. I think just, and I think probably part of it is because of Covid that really changed many things. So I, I would say the, the, the importance and the worth of families just never been greater than in, in this, in these days. So we have, it's now 30 years since we have the proclamation, and it's 70 years since we've had the temple in Switzerland.
So I, I, I make it a point to, to highlight those two things that they go hand in hand and how, how farsighted the prophets, and of course, God is with the problems that arise in, in, in this day. So if, if we can have a family and temple centered, uh, a membership in Switzerland, I think, I think we'll be safe and we'll be ready for, um, for when Christ, um, comes again, I think then comes to mind.
But, um, the 10 virgins, uh, they're parable of the 10 versions, uh, and I, I'm, it is my testimony that the five who have the oil are, are the five who go to the temple and make and keep covenants. Yeah. - Awesome. Well, like Christiana, your, your faith is obvious and it's just so inspiring, uh, especially here, the faith of other saints in other parts of the world. And, and, uh, so I really appreciate you taking the time to allow me to ask you some questions and whatnot.
Um, I've got one more question for you, but any other point, principle you wanna make sure we cover before I ask my final question? Or did we do it - ? Uh, I was just, you know, maybe since I have the microphone, I would like to just thank a few who have influenced me in my life. And I think so many people are not, um, aware of what their, especially their books do. Like, uh, just growing up and, and reading.
Um, it started out for me, it started out with Truman g Madson, then Stephen Robinson, then James Farrell. Uh, I'm a big fan of Adam S. Miller. - Yes, absolutely. - Uh, and how he changed my view on Grace.
I, I would think, uh, I've learned more through him than many other talks, uh, than the givens who've, uh, been doing, and of course, their podcasts like yours or, uh, faith Matters or others that, um, have, um, you know, maybe because I have an English background, I can read and listen to all these, not many members in the church know of all those, um, uh, books or podcasts or, so it's, um, still nothing of, not much gets translated into German.
Um, uh, my sister and I wanna translate, uh, or have, uh, Adam as Miller, um, translate one of his, uh, books, uh, A Letter to a Young Mormon. 'cause I think it's so important for the rising generation to understand. Uh, I'm, I was happy to, uh, have to interview Kate Holbrook a year ago, just before she died. Um, she has, I guess her books have really, um, have a, leave a big impression on my spiritual life.
Um, those are actually people who really, uh, make a difference, even here in Switzerland. I don't know if they're aware of it, even if we, you know, leave a little whatever, uh, uh, commentaries this, there it is. But it's important. It's important that we hear those voices here and that we are heard. I think, uh, I think, I don't know how if anyone even realizes, uh, if we're here or not, but, um, I think we need each other. Yeah.
- Love it. Well, Christian, the last question I have for you, as, as you reflect on your time as a leader in the church, how has being a leader helped you become a better follower of Jesus Christ? - I think here I'm gonna have to touch on more on my being a mother. Um, I have, my youngest son is severely handicapped, and it's been a really big challenge now for 24 years.
And, um, I think this insecurity of not knowing how things are gonna turn out and, uh, and being overwhelmed most of the time and mentally and physically tired, I think if, if I wouldn't be following Jesus Christ, I wouldn't have been able to, to, to grapple with that challenge. Mostly because those challenges go unseen and unknown to most of the people. And I think that's what Jesus Christ was all about.
Uh, I think the most important parts of his messages, of his mission, of his, um, his sonship as being so many, um, conversations and encounters, which we are not aware of. And I think that's also with, with other things. I think so many things happen, uh, in my life that I'm not aware of. But if I can give it the same importance just as, uh, interacting with my son, then I have a feeling that I'm following Jesus Christ. - And that concludes this how I lead interview.
I hope you enjoyed it. And, uh, I would ask you, could you take a minute and drop this link in an email, on social media, in a text, wherever it makes the most sense, and share it with somebody who could relate to this, this experience. And this is how we, how we develop as leaders, just hearing what the other guy's doing, trying some things out, testing, adjusting for your area. And, uh, that's, that's where great leadership's discovered, right?
So we would love to have you, uh, share this with, uh, somebody in this calling or a related calling, and that would be great. And also, if you know somebody, uh, any type of leader who would be a fantastic guest on the How I Lead segment, uh, reach out to us. Go to leading scenes.org/contact. Maybe send this in individual an email letting them know that you're going to be suggesting their name for this interview. We'll reach out to them and, uh, see if we can line 'em up.
So again, go to leading saints.org/contact. And there you can submit all the information and let us know, and maybe they will be on a feature How I lead Segment on the Leading Saints podcast. Remember, the Jody Moore presentation about youth and mental health is waiting for [email protected] slash 14. - It came as a result of the position of leadership, which was imposed upon us by the God of Heaven, who brought forth a restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And when the Declaration was made concerning the own and only true and living church upon the face of the earth, we were immediately put in a position of loneliness. The loneliness of leadership from which we cannot shrink nor run away. And to which we must face up with boldness and courage and ability.