Attention leaders. If you have recently been called to lead the rising generation, I have a next step for you. Listen to an awesome presentation by Y yvonne Hub and Peter, who are both respective members of the young women and young men general advisory Council for the church. Their presentation really helps clarify ways on how to effectively lead the youth using
the children and youth program. They also cover topics like youth lead groups, how to lead through personal ministry, how to meet youth where they are, identifying the youth strengths and capacities. This presentation is part of the young saints virtual library and you can access it at no cost by going to leading saints dot org slash 14. Again, simply click the link in the show notes or go to leading saints dot org slash 1 4.
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Welcome. You're gonna love it. I'm happy to announce that this interview is the first interview with a sitting general authority in history of the leading Saints podcast, and it was with a phenomenal individual to have on the podcast elder or president Alvin f, Meredith of the third, who's the current By Idaho, president and he was kind enough to get approval to come down to the studio and sit with me and have a conversation
and like most leading saints episodes. It's like none other that you've heard because we dig into his leadership, journey his experience from being a young missionary in the Salt lake City Utah mission to being a young bishop in Tennessee, then a stake president, Tennessee, mission president, area 70, General authority 70, and now the president of
By Idaho so many jams in here. Listen for the advice that he's received about how to facilitate counsel meetings and how to get people talking and gather the revelation from around the room together Also as listen for those moments of how he's walked into this calling as or in this role as the president of By Idaho, when he then so many remarkable men preceded him. Right? And how he benefits from their experience and their their encouragement and but still sets off with his own vision and focus.
And 1 of the key principles that I took away from this is his approach of when he starts that new leadership role. The hundred days of listening, where he tries to listen to as many people understand the dynamics happening in the organization and the ward in the state and then lead out from there. So you're gonna love this interview with president Alvin f meredith, the third. Elder Alvin f meredith the third. Welcome. Thank you. Great to be here. So tell me about the
third. A note you still hear about that much. My my grandfather's is an Alvin Fraser Meredith, my father's an Alvin Fraser Meredith then I'm the third. The funny story behind that is I go by the name trip. U. Which is a nickname for being the third. So if you're from south and you go by tray your trip, that's not likely your real name, it's likely a nickname be in. The third like. Yeah. I was trying to figure out how to get trip from Alvin. Yeah. And I've done by trip since I was born.
But really. Except from from the pulpit at. Sure. So I'm always introduced as Alvin f meredith the third. When I was called as a state present. I was called by president Packer. And that he's he's not a big fan in names. And he said, so... What's the story with trip? And so I explained that it was a nickname for being the third. And he said, but you're really name's Alvin. Right? And I said, yes. He said, after pausing the bed, said, the prophet Joseph would love that name.
He said, you go by Alvin while your stake president when you're released and you go by trip, So I've always kept. Yeah. My full name for the pulpit up, but everyone calls me. The the release never really came. Right? You just move on to the next thing. In new York present Meredith. Right. So... About you... This so is there an Alvin in the fourth? No. There's not.
Okay. We discontinued. Alright... That's great. Yeah. Now you are how long has it been now that you've been the president of By idaho? Just over 10 months. Wow. Yeah. Tell the story of how that came to be because this I should I. I mean, you are the first active 70, general 30 70 on the leading scenes podcast, which is a milestone for us. I appreciate you being open to that. We're treat you nice. I promise this So but you were a 70, and then and the typical...
Your educational background, maybe isn't the typical path to being at college presidents. So yeah. Where that? I don't have any of the typical qualifications of the university anniversary president, but I do love those kids. Yeah. And if that's what they need then we've got that in space. And I say we because I really feel like this is... It's an assignment for both my wife and I. Mh. But yeah, this came out of the blue, we had no indication that this
assignment was ever coming our way. The Tuesday after April general conference, there's an assignment meeting. This happens every year, all the general authorities and their spouses gather in the auditor in the church office building. And there's 15 chairs up front, the 15 rat chairs you have the 12 and the first presidency. And it's a little bit like a, like, a mission, like, a transfer meeting. Yeah. Mh. And so there's a powerpoint.
They get up and they just... They flash up the assignments and my wife and I went to that assignment meeting This was this would have been April 20 23. With no expectations of change, I had been serving in the Middle East African North area presidency for a year and if you're in an area of presidency, it's a 3 to 5 year assignment. And so we expected that we were gonna continue in that area of presidency, which meant that we were gonna continued to
live in Utah. That's the only international area presidency that's based out so lot all the other international. Yeah. You go live that you live in the Philippines are in Brazil. Yeah. So he went to that meeting. I believe it was present Oaks kind of tab through the Powerpoint presentation, and my assignment came up, and it said no change, which is exactly what we thought. I went back to my office, my
wife went home. And then that afternoon, I get a phone call from Brook Hills who's He's a General authority, but more importantly is the secretary of the first presidency, and he says, Elder meredith, the first presidency would like to meet with you and your wife in 3 weeks. Well, which is a long time to wait. Imagine And and we could not for the life of us think of why the first presidency would wanna
meet with both of us. When I was called as a general authority, we met with 1 member of the first presidency in we were recall as mission leaders, it was with 1 member of the first presidency, but this was the entire first presidency. Wow. As the date approached, Dawned will I'm in the Middle East African North area presidency. It's the only area presidency based out of Salt Lake. Maybe we're moving the office.
To the Middle East dubai, and maybe they're just inviting us in to let us know that our family will be moving. So to make a long story short, we went into that meeting with the first presidency, thinking we might be moving to dubai and we walked out with an assignment to go to Rex idaho. I to tell you, that meeting was so sweet. President Nelson was just so warm and encouraging. We walked in his office he had a chair up against the wall. And they set their 3 chairs just right in front of us. He
said to me and my wife. He said you 2 sit on that couch and sit real close in act like you love each. And so we held hands tightly, and he said, a few weeks ago, we had an assignment meeting, and we've invited you here to change your assignment, and you're gonna be the new president, Be. Wow. And then I should tell you before we left, he said, he said Elder Meredith over on my desk as a vase of flowers. You said I want you to go pick the prettiest flower and give it to
your wife. So we left out of his office with with the beautiful red Rose and a ticket to rex bird when... And we have loved our experience there. We love those students. We love the faculty. We we love the employees. It's it's been a real privilege for us. Was there any in, like, a charge they gave you, Like, here's some things we're gonna to focus on or how did that go? So it came the assignment came with a job description and were 7 points in the job description. And
there's not points... The points wouldn't be things that surprise you. You know, 1 is to to model a disciples ship in Christ to stay aligned with the board, which is the first presidency and other apostles. The 1 that I thought was interesting was to maintain and preserve the spirit of rick that is a it is a elder Bed nurse phrase about the campus. It is a special set apart and sacred replace. And there will be things that we change because we're in a new time and a in a new season.
However, we will always hold on to those things that make that campus unique and and is often captured by that phrase the spirit of bricks. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Pulled you walk into this role. Again, no no plan to be in academics or to be a leader of of academia. And this is a dynamic that a lot of even, you know, lay church leaders experiences that you're replacing a remarkable leader. Yeah. Right? And you don't want to diminish their
progress or momentum, but you also wanna... You know, you have your own personality and maybe direction that you wanna go. So how do you begin in that role you know, establishing vision and and really making it your own. Yeah. A lot of listening at first. But let let me back up a little bit. You talking think about replacing a remarkable leader. If if you were to ask me what surprised you about be where
Idaho. It's that, you know, my rec... Growing up, my recollection of the Rex campus, whether it it was a small little junior college, and it was a great junior college, but it was a junior college. And I hadn't thought through the leadership that's gone through that campus since the transition. So David A Bet led the transition from Rick's college to Be what Idaho. And he only left to be call in to the 12. Right. And 1 may have thought, how do you possibly replace David Bet?
Well, can be Clark, the Dean of the Harbor business he's probably up to the desk. Right. Exactly. And you can feel you can feel the end of Elder Bed and you can feel or see Kim Clark's fingerprints all over that university. And then Kim clark only left to be to be a General Authority and the Commissioner of Church Education, and you could have asked the same question.
Well, he was followed by Clark Gilbert. Elder Clark Gilbert, the current commissioner of Church Education, masters from Stanford Doctorate from Harvard Harvard professor, And as credential as he is, most importantly, he is cons in a disciple. Yeah. He's great. And then he was followed by Henry Jay, who is just a poster child for innovating
at the university level. And so, like, to follow those men, first of all, There's no organization, whether it be in higher education and business or in any other walk of life that can go through that transformative innovative list of leaders without becoming something new. And so when we got there, we were just blown away by the quality of the education just how stunning the campus was. And for the most part, I was in a pretty good head space until I would think about that list of
leaders who came before me. You walked now hallway with all the the pictures right? Right Well... And they were all very kind to spend some time with me before I began my assignment. And they all used different words their message was pretty consistent. 1, be Idaho is a special and sacred place and 2, you better not mess it out. So that message was communicated loud and clear, but, you know, not having a background in higher education.
I was very intentional in the first hundred days of just listening. And I was on a listening tour. My wife and I were doing we were doing weekly focus groups with students. I was doing college breakfast with colleges, and now I'm doing department breakfast.
We were out meeting with Alumni, and we were just listening, And we would we would ask them the question, what do you hope that we preserve And then we'd ask the follow question, what do we need to do different given the time and season that we're in right now? And that that hundred days of listening shaped what we're focusing on now and was, you know, incredibly instructive for me. And I think it was easy for me to approach it that way because I literally knew nothing. Mh.
But I think that's a good... Even if you feel like you know the ward or you know the quorum or you know the relief society I think with going into a new leadership opportunity. I think if you just take time to listen, then you're gonna get great revelation. We we've been taught multiple times that revelation is scattered amongst us.
And so I felt particularly in this assignment that my role as a leader was not necessarily to have the answers, but it was to ask the right questions so that revelation that was scattered amongst people that cared about that university with bob all the time. Yeah. Yeah. And it was the hundred days, like, the goal from the beginning. As far as listening and just I'm not gonna make any major change in the at least the first hundred days. That's right? Yes. It was just... It was just
listening. And we've continued we've continued that listening towards just because we've gotten such rich feedback. But we gave ourselves a hundred days and we communicated to the faculty and the staff there that... Because when you assume a new role, people always ask so what are you gonna focus on? And we were really intentional about saying I don't know yet. But on day a
hundred will I you know. Yeah. Yeah. Now, in a large institution like a college, you know, campus and an organization, you know, the... It can become very bureaucratic. Yeah. Right? And that sort of has a negative connotation. But how do you go about that? Like, cutting through the bureaucracy and making sure that you're hearing everything from the jan to the, you know, Dean. Yeah. Here's a little bit of a parallel. This came from our a recent come follow me
study. You'll remember and I think it's Mo messiah chapter 22. So Am stumbles across the people of Lim high, they're in bondage and they realized that they have to get out, and you've got Am and Limb... Is the king, Am is a great leader in and of himself, And the first thing that they did, the scripture says they began to consult with the people. Mh And they did cause that all the people should gather themselves together and this they did that they might have the voice of the people
concerning the matter. And that was kind of the guiding principle of what we did, and then the way we executed on that was, we did mass surveys, so a survey to the entire employee base but you also really have to get kinda need and knee with people, and and we primarily did that through focus groups. Meeting with small groups of people, like, for instance, with the students, on Thursdays, we had this pattern of bringing at 10 to 12 students and, we we'd feed him Jimmy John's
or Papa John's. We don't know who to John's family but they made a lot of good focus group. And we would bring in a couple questions, and we would just and we would just listen. We also... We've got a really good leadership team at By ui. And there's, you know, there were 2 groups, there's the president's executive group, which is my assistant as well as the vice president. So that's a small group. And then you have a president's counsel, which is kind of 2 layer
leadership in the university. So it's all the vice presidents and all their direct reports. That's set out 45 people. And we try to transform those meetings into from stan and deliver to to counseling sessions. Years ago when I was in area 7 had an assignment without a Christ to reorganize a stake. And when a new state presidency sees called, there's a little bit of training that the visiting authorities do before they leave. And Said something to me that really shaped my
approach to leadership after that. He said, if I were called to be a stake president again. He said, I think I would bring to my high counsel and state counsel just a couple questions. And I'd bring in 2 questions and then I would just listen. Mh. I just thought that was brilliant. And so 1 of the things that new leaders need to wrestle with is so what are those forums and mechanisms to gather that feedback and listen? Yeah. Yeah That's really helpful. And a a few things come to mind as you
tell that and that story is they... Because it's so easy, like, in a church setting for this, the state presidency to just focus on counseling with the state council or the bishop focusing on the word council, which is good... There'll be a cadence of that ongoing. But just sort of push through that and go down to the the everyday member? Like, what are you seeing? Like, what are you experiencing? Because there can be an echo chamber
that happens in that dynamic. Yeah. I now Echo chamber is a great is a great phrase. Yeah. I think just being being with the people that you're called to serve And just as importantly, inviting the leaders to be with the people that you serve. Mh. And so, you know, we've got have established some patterns at B now that not just my wife and I that are doing these focus groups now. It's other leaders in
in the organs organization. Yeah. Yeah. Anything else principle whether you learn from others or just your own experience. As far as facilitating a council meeting because as, you know, that's a big emphasis in our faith tradition and in leadership and, you know, that we we counsel together. Yeah. We seek that the revelation that's spread among us. Anything else that the a leader could consider to fill sales data a better counsel dynamic.
I think if a leader will discipline him himself or herself to limit their contributions to questions as opposed to statements. Yeah. Then they'll get much richer feedback. So going into the council with 1 or 2 inspired and then asking follow up questions. And again, resisting that temptation to kind of descend from the mount with the answers. Because once you do that, the counseling over. Right. We're a very differential people, particularly to those that are in
leadership. And and there's nothing wrong with that, but it does make it really important for a leader to create safe spaces for people to share their ideas and their thoughts. Yeah. Yeah. It's really good. Kinda bounce around here, But I wanna, like, go back to your developmental years. You grew up in tennessee. I. Right? And pretty traditional Saturday, Saint Home and No. Very traditional. In fact. My mother joined the church when I was 6. My father has yet to join the church.
He is a good good principled man. We're hopeful that that will happen at some point. So I grew up in apartment member family. I was baptized when I was 9, And we Tennessee... That's the buckle of the Bible bell. Yeah. And so I grew up with good faithful members of the church also surrounded by other really good Christian people that happen to be of other denomination. Yeah. And then when the mission came along, it was
pretty easy decision for you. It was, I think, probably for my teenage years, I really felt like that's what the Lord wanted me to do. And and I even in my professional career, drew upon... Just from a leadership perspective, was constantly drawing upon things that I learned for my mission. I mean, those are truly formed of years, certainly for your spiritual growth, which is most important. Mh. But also from a leadership perspective. Right? And you were called to the Salt
lake City Utah mission. Is that? Why? But was there a story behind that? Or wouldn't think when you're in the house? Well, you know, you never expect for the mission call to match return address, etcetera true. But... Yeah. Every missionary called the Utah has their little stories about, you know, they thought it was their friends pulling a prank on them. But that was the perfect place for me to serve. Yeah. As it is for every young missionary. Yeah. But I
was... No 1 grows up singing, and I hope they call me on a mission with with dreams of the salt lake temple in the beach. Alright. Yeah. But it was a great place to Serve. I had a wonderful full mission president. Dominic Macarthur was just a great mentor to me and really yeah taught me a lot about the gospel and about leadership, and I'll forever be grateful. Yeah. So take me that Dynamic. What did mentorship from him look like I think primarily, it was probably 2 things.
It was example and it was feedback. He was just a constant example of what good leadership looked like. But he also led with High love and high expectations. Elder Anderson has talked about that recently and and mission leader seminars. And and that's not a phrase that was used back when I served in the late 19 eighties and early
19 nineties. But when I look back on that, I I think, you know, that's what president Macarthur was to me, he led with great love And he would, you know, always take us under wing and there were times that he would pat us on the back. And other times he'd give us a little swift kick a little bit below and And I appreciated that because I felt like I became a better missionary and a better man because of
him. You know, there's... If we're were not careful, and church, leadership, sometimes we will become caretaker instead of difference makers. And my mission president was a difference maker. He wasn't there just to take care of things. He wanted things to get better, and I felt like he had a personal investment and me, which I was for Abe pray
for. Yeah. So. Every recently I heard the the quote, I think it came from a 70, in a, private leadership meeting that you can either run award or you can inspire award. Yeah. Right? Because that... That's the temptation phrase. Yeah. Is there's so much administrative or sort of those day to day things pounding on your door that you can fall into that rat race. Right? Of just making sure the lights are on and the doors are unlocked on Sunday. Did we do it, you know,
but to have push through that. Yeah. Right? Well, you know, an example from a Sa life in that and and Luke chapter 5. This is early in the Savior minister. Any comes to the lake of Genes, and there's these 2 ships here, and it's Peter ships. And Peter was just taking care of stuff. He was cleaning the mats at the time. And this is that great story where the savior gives Peter the command to launch out into the
deep. Mh And Peter says, master, we've toil all of the night and have taken nothing and the savior wasn't interested in just taking care of the ships and the nets, but he wanted to make a difference. Mh. And by the way, there's a you know, there's a big sermon and just that phrase of launch out into the deep. And what the deep means and what it means to launch and But
anyway, to take a full circle. I think that's that's what I appreciate about my mission president, and I think that's what good leaders do is they invite people to change and and to be better and to reach new heights and stretch to reach their full potential. Years ago, Elder Maxwell coined this phrase divine, discontent. Michelle Craig gave a talk on this in general conference a few years ago.
I think that's 1 of the characteristics of good leaders is they embrace and share this concept of divine discontent, which To me means, hey, we're not satisfied with where we are today. We're intend On being better tomorrow than we are today. But we have all that in a very in a divine way. Yeah. Some of us are really good with a discontent piece. It's the divine piece of truth. The divine piece that somehow that we've really got book.
And your great leaders do that. They inspire you to be a little bit better, but in an encouraging way and not in a discouraging. Yeah. Because in I move you're too heavy on that discontent turn to cy and right. And just that toxicity that that doesn't motivate for inspired not. In half. Yeah. And I don't think that's I don't think that's the way the the savior leads. Yeah. So... So you come over your mission. I mean, you're ready to take
on the world. I mean what was your your plan or what was your education to go to By, and I went there and I studied a psychology, always with the intent to go on to business school, which is eventually which is eventually what I did. Nice. And then what did you do for your... The main part of your career. So I was in business. It was kind of a jack of all trades master, and they worked for general accurate and Boston consulting group and then
went to a... Which at the time was a smaller startup that drew into a pretty good business until I was called a full time service. Yeah. And then... So what does your leadership journey begin where you called as Bishop or what was the... Sort of that big the big heavy responsibility and leadership in the church? Yeah. I was called as a bishop and Murphy squirrel, Tennessee, and learned great lessons there. I had a had
a stake present. His name was Wan Martin from Cook, Tennessee, and you won't find a better soul, but he was... I just right when he was country cornbread. He he had this brilliant way of giving counsel, but I still draw upon. In fact, He was ahead of his time a little bit. When he called me as a Bishop, he said, bishop, you spend your time with a you. Those adults they ain't gonna listen to anyway. So if you think about where we are now.
Yeah. And how responsibility really has changed for the bishop rig to really, shift their focus to the verizon generation. Another thing that he did that I ended up using in my professional life and and certainly my church service as well. I remember we have 1 month as a stake where we had 0 baptism. And back in Tennessee, that that just doesn't happen much, and he called an emergency meeting He called us all to to his chapel in Cook, which was an
hour and 40 minute drive for me. And he said, I want you to bring the name of the very best man to this meeting. And we had no idea what that matter or why we were doing that. And so he pulls us all together and he says that bishop, we had 0 baptism last month. That's not gonna happen again on my watch. She said the name of the man that you brought unless it's 1 of my counselors of the patriarch we're gonna release him from whatever he's doing, and he's gonna be the ward mission later.
Holy we go. Wow. I'm not admin Katie that approach. Was this was an inspired approach where we you're there. And so there were half the high council was released There were bishop counselors that were released, and they were called as were mission leaders. And and you wanna guess what stake led the mission and baptism every month. Oh, wow. It was our state. Yeah. And he... If they're swearing in a secular setting, I would say that hiring decisions are the most important decisions that
a leader makes. Yeah. But even in the church, making sure that you've got the right people focused on the right things is really key to getting things. Yeah. So those were some of my learnings from Yeah. From a young bishop, from a good good country steak. Yeah. That's great. And I... What I appreciate again another dry saying, every stakes should do this, but it's a inspired move, But I just love that So I guess the temptation is, let's get everybody in room. I'm gonna talk
at Yeah. Yeah. I'm in gonna lecture and until you understand this is a problem. Yeah. But to say we're gonna make a bold move here. Yeah. And we're gonna take the best man and and and put them in the place to to have change here where I feel inspired that needs to be changed. I love that. That's Well. And and implicit in that kind of command asked was a confidence that he had that the revelation would come to the local leaders. The brilliance of present Martin's leadership was simplicity.
He'd never overthink anything. Mh. But the council that he give was just so practical and and tactile that it facilitated divine revelation, which is the most important part of Leadership. Yeah. So let's get our time machine go back to maybe that first year of Bishop trip. Yeah. You know, what stands out like, with the with the experience you have now. What advice would you
give to your yourself? At that time? Well, I would start with present Martin's advice, which is now very in, much in line with prophetic guidance, which is focus on the youth. Yeah. And recognize that leadership for a bishop primarily is minister administering to the 1. Sometimes we feel in in leadership, and I felt this as a young bishop that I was called minister to a multitude. Mh. And there are... You know, if you look at the, kind of the pattern of the savior
leadership. By the way, Elder Brag gave a great recently. I think it was called the a master class on leadership dating the life. Yeah. That was a good 1. But... And he talked about some lessons learned about leadership from the Savior ministry in the Americas is just 1 day. 1 of the things he points out there
is that that is focused on individuals. Remember how you had this multitude, but he brought them to him 1 by 1 and administered 1 by 1. I wish I had caught the vision of that earlier as a bishop? Because I spent a lot of time thinking about what do I need to preach to the multitude? And I wish I had spent more time thinking about how can I help Damon and how can I help Lisa with you know, things that individuals were wrestling
with? Yeah. And now on a highlight the recent Encourage we've received from president Nelson leading up to his hundred of birthday to focus on the 1 That's right. And that's that could be the best gift for for him and really, that's the best thing we can do for for our eternal father as well. Yeah. Ultimately, this is a work about individuals. Yeah. I love the account in Mark chapter 2 where the para man was born 4 then they carried him to
sage. Yeah. And, you know, there's several lessons learned him that 1 is 1 is that they were focused on 1, 2 is that they they worked together, when I teach this in a state conference in a leadership session, Always ask people to be be the man on the bed just for a minute. You're up on the roof, they've broken it up and they start to lower you down. What do you hope is happening between the 4 that are lowering you down. You you hope they've been coordinating them if they're working together.
But 3, the most important part of that story is that their focus was not just on a temporal service. And I I think they may have thought that that's what they were doing is they were taking this man who had a physical element to the savior to be healed. But they were taking him to the savior. And ultimately, that is our charges leaders is to help 1 by 1 people come to the savior. Wow. And then... So did you go from Bishop to Steak president? I did I served as a it for 2 years. Oh, 2
years. John was called as a stake president. So you replaced that your mentor there. I did. I replaced 1 to a present Warren. And I'd never, yeah, Never anticipated that happening. It was kinda the sweet tender moment for us. Present Packer, he had had a friend in our stake. And this was, you know, prison Packer was well and well advanced an agent wasn't doing state comp. But when he saw that a stake was being recreated in Mc, Tennessee, which was our stake. That's where his friend led,
he assigned himself account. Oh, wow. So I called as a stake present like present Packer and... Yeah. Usually, I mean, puzzles aren't doing that Right? Now. Yeah. Wow. But that was really that was cool sweet. And I'll tell you as a stake president, I did a similar thing that I did that I just explained to be where you ui idaho. We took a hundred days and just listened, we counsel with our counselors. I had I had the bishop in a meeting that I wasn't in put together a list of...
But I put together a list of questions for them to answer, and they compile those answers, you know, questions like, what's going well in the stake? What do we need to continue? What do we missing? What areas do we need to focus on going forward? And then spend a lot of time talking with, sister leaders about what their observations were, and that that helped shaped the things that we focused on in our stake after that. Wow, that's awesome. Any other, like, from that time at steak
present because it was... Then you were called as a mission president, after that? Or... Well, actually, so I I was... I served for 4 years as a stake president. My company came to me and said, we were just starting to do business in Asia. And the exact words that my boss said to me said, we're doing business in Asia. We need a mormon boy. So we can trust.
Yeah he had no commentary on any skills or abilities that I had, They just wanted someone that they could trust, and I really I was really torn by that, and III called my area 70 who was Devin Corn who have... Oh, yeah We... He's I've interviewed him. Really. He's he's gonna love Elder Corn. And he said something that was interesting. I I explained to him what my company had asked us to do. And I said I've I've been serving for a little bit, a
little less than 4 years. And I said I'm loyal to the call. And he said you'll be a greater blessing to the church if you go to Hong Kong, And if he's staying in Tennessee. And I think he was very... I think he was very prophetic in that. I mean because I with the benefit of Hindsight, I look back and I think about growing up in Tennessee, serving as a bishop and a state president in Tennessee, kind of the buckle
of the Bible bell. And then not only do do we do that 1 stent in Hong Kong, but we also went back and spent some time in Singapore And so served in the Asia area there, which is kind of kind of the Ke era. You know, the the church there. It's
still... It's bloom and blossom that's in the early days And then I served as a as a missionary and a mission president and the heart of the church in Salt Lake, and I think about what I've been called to do now and I can just with the benefit of hindsight, I can see how all that fell into place. But so I was released as a stake president, we went to Hong Kong for what we thought was gonna be a multi year assignment.
And it ended up, I think the company thought that there were some things were broken that need to be fixed turned out. It wasn't that bad at. Was kind of cosmetic and, we got things in order, So we came back a year after that. And when I came back, then I was called to be in a a mission presidency for a few months, and then I was called to be an area 70. Oh, wow, So I served as an area 70 for 4 years in Tennessee, and then my company came back and said, we wanna grow more in Asia,
will you move your family to Singapore. Wow. So we moved to Singapore. I I served 2 years as an area 70 in Singapore. We were there 1 more year after I was released as an area 7. And then from there, we were called to be mission leaders in the... Wow. Salt lake City south. Wow, that's quite the the journey. I mean, all over the place. That's great. Over, but here, I should say the heroes and that were our children. Yeah. Yeah. That can be tough.
Taken them all over the world and they've made great sacrifices, so my wife and I could serve in the church. And and they're better for it, but it's still tender to me that they've just been champs. And just kinda rolling with the punches and I know that they'll be blessed for sacrifices of they. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Highlighted dynamic that p doesn't get talked about enough is that feeling of because some of these leadership roles can be know, the 10 years a good chunk of time. A decade for
a steak present typically or near decade. And there's this feeling of you wanna be a loyal dedicated servant, but there's also demands outside of that that may move you around. And so there's often this dissonance when I think, how am I giving up too soon am I disappointing, you know, the the local authorities are even God. Right? And just to breathe into that and say, you know what? Like, in hindsight, this could be a great blessing down the road. Right. Yeah. Absolutely. I think you
you articulated that very, very well. You know, our president Hi lake gave some counsel to bishop years ago. This was back when the we used to have worldwide leadership brought Oh, yes. Yeah. And he and some counsel to bishop, he gave them their top 4 priorities. And it was wife, children work and then church call. And we've gotta keep those priorities in mine. And it's tough. It's much easier to talk about than it is to live and to do, but the Lord wants us as leaders to
focus on our families. Yeah. Those... I don't know what calling that are in the next life, but I do know that there's husband and wife and father and mother, and those are internal relationships that we need to... Their sacrifices to be made, but we need to make sure that you know, prudent those. Yeah. So you called as mission president. Yeah. And you're headed back to your mission. Correct. Was that I mean, because I know the typical thing is you get those initial calls and you don't know
where you're going at first. Was there was the hope to go back to you time, I mean, or what, you know, I kind of, I and I I think I would speak for my whole family. We kinda thought that we would go somewhere international then We done spent some time in Asia. We done Hong Kong. We done Singapore. Our kids were really really resilient and So we've done those expat assignments, So we thought that that might be the case, but I called back my old old stomp grounds. It's fun. That's fun. How
would you describe the dynamics? So, I mean, I grew up in West Valley. You know, I'm a Utah boy, so I somewhat understand this. But what's different about being a mission president in Utah. So we had 73 stakes in our mission, and the mission back home in Tennessee there were 6 steaks. Yeah. Most of presidents know. They're... The steak Brendan first name basis. You know? They're like, Yeah. And I would recognize and probably know the last names of the 73 stick presidents. But
that is something that I missed. You know? Because they were just really good man and and your spread really, really thin Mh Utah missions. Yeah. And then as far as the... Was there any type of vision or Charge you gave to those missionaries that... I mean, because you can get distracted maybe by so much or, you know, the tracking isn't necessary thing. So you're you're make sure that you're... You wanna keep them effective. But. What what comes mind as far as leading missionaries that.
Working with members. Mh. And we drew upon our experience in Asia. The way we would teach this is we'd bring chopsticks into zone conference, and we'd have a piece candy up on a table, and we'd give a missionary 1 shot and say you pick that up without stabbing it. Of course, she can't do that. Mh. We give them another chops stick, and usually, we would call on someone that had spent some time in nature because that everyone can work a pair of chopsticks very well.
But working with members, you know, the obvious object lesson there is members were 1 chops stick and missionaries is were the other of 1. And if we work in concert, then we can do then we can do great things. Is there any advice you give to leaders as far as of the being and helping out with that more... With the member work. I mean, yeah. Because I mean, we've all been there. The missionaries come over for dinner or whatever There's sort of this
passive aggressive, like, encourage. You know. You should really send us your friends. Like, okay. I know I should. But I don't know if I want to. You know, well, you know, present, Nelson coined this phrase a little while, go called spiritual momentum. Leave a lot in spiritual momentum and 1 approach is is just invite people to do something. There's a tendency for missionaries to come over and say, hey, will you give us the names of your friends or family? That we can teach this week.
But sometimes the invitation is, hey, if you have someone great, on the other end, could we invite you just to pray for missionary experiences and there's a whole host of things in between. Mh. But I think if we just start taking baby steps. There's some spiritual momentum that sometimes will catch and and maybe that will end up and finding someone to teach. And if it doesn't, then it certainly it will, at a minimum, we'll increase prayers for the work, which which make a difference. Yeah.
After that it feels like, like to run a marathon tomorrow. So can you do that? But it's really, like, can you maybe just get up a little early and put on your tennis shoes? And can we start there? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's awesome. Anything else from those mission... Those 3 years is leading the mission the... Well, by the way, it was only 2 years. Oh, really least Call. Okay. Because my service was cut short. Our service was cut short because of my call to be a general Gotcha.
You've never really done a full term of and now. III can't finished 3. Let's get to 70. Okay. In the seventies. We... And I get them when I say, we, my wife has just been such a big part of everything that I do. We are a a couple and in every respect, but we just grew to love the rise generation. Mh. These young people, and we got to know the things that they wrestle with, their struggles, their trials. We saw all of their war and all their
blemishes and I just loved them. And that's what's been real sweet about the assignment that we have now At Be what Items. It's a bigger mission. It is. Much bigger you're much bigger. Yeah. But, you know, I think goes, you know, the present hiring at 1 point said there are 2 things that great leaders need to have. There's are so lots of other things, but all great leaders in the church need 2 things. 1 is to be led by the spirit and the second is charity. And
as I said before we... As I think about the assignment that be you we don't have any of the traditional qualifications. But we love Yeah those 2. You can do that part. Yeah. Which is the most more environment. And we loved love those missionaries. Yeah. Yeah. And that's sort of takes me the transition to the next broader topic of the Ys sa and that rising generation. Yeah. Right? I... Just yesterday I got from, Bishop just... And and I feel this from a lot of leaders. Like, is
there, like, what else is there? Like, kurt sort of this feeling of, I just wanna help and there's so... It's such a difficult part of life. So what comes to mind is, what are you learning Or what have you seen? What... How do you approach that? Right? Generate? There's 3 impressions that particularly my wife has had, and I think she's spot on with us and working
with the rise in generation. When do we need to point him to the savior, 2, we need to encourage them to be aligned and follow aligned with and follow the council of living prophets and apostles. And I think those 2 would be obvious to most leadership, most leadership positions in the church. But the third is we have to do a better job of conveying that living the gospel Jesus Christ is joyful. If we don't get the joy, we're gonna lose this rise
generation. When I was a young bishop, we had some pretty heavy meetings before Sac meeting, we walked in into Sac meeting, When the meeting was over, I walked off the Ross and my wife met me at the bottom of the stairs with kind of a stern look, and she said are you happy? And I said, yes, I'm happy and she said, well, when you're sitting on the stand in front of the saints remind your face. It's so true And, you know, you think about how many times the savior said to
his disciples be of cheer. And it was off and in the midst of really dark and trying times. Like when the disciples were on the boat that was tossed with contrary winds, and he walked to them. They fought They thought he was a spirit and they were afraid and he said, be a good cheer at his eye. And even before he went into the Garden of Geth, he invited disciples to be of good cheer. And I think
we have to exhibit that. In our count is and the things that we say and the way that we live, and I think the savior wants us to be revere joyful. Yeah. And sometimes, sometimes we over emphasize the reverence and and we come across as stoic. And that's not what the gospel is. The gospel is is it's it's joyful.
Elder Kieran is he's just a wonderful addition to the quorum of the 12, and he's given the senior leaders of the Church, the general authorities and law officers there's great, great training on being joyful, and he exhibits that. And we we we all need to. Yeah. Yeah. That's so helpful. Because the frame of that... This isn't just like, a list of commandments that god really want you to keep, but this is a It's is a lifestyle that really
works. Yeah. And I mean, I've I've experienced that my own my own journey, but, you know, to convey that sometimes as is difficult And then there's the balance of... If you don't also don't wanna... Because this can see through fake. Right? And so if you're just smiling to smile. Yeah. Trying to sell the deal. Yep. You know, that you really have to it feel it. Yeah. No. And that's a great point. I good. So the first step is to find the joy within. You. Yeah. And then to exhibit it.
Yeah. And let people know that that's... And again, I think the joy comes from following the savior and following the profits and apostles. It's not this kind of concept of f happiness. It's a deep rich joy. Yeah. That uniquely comes through living the gospel of Jesus Christ and by striving to be his disciples and by following the council of his of his profits. Yeah. And again, I just think those are joyful
joyful things. Yeah. For sure. Is there anything you do as far as to make sure that... I mean, you, you know, it's making sure your face knows, the joy feels is 1 thing Anything Do that help convey that or set that culture of conveying that the gospel leads to Joy. I... Does need come to mind? I know it's a it's a nuanced Oh, hey, it's a good guy... And nothing that I'm conscious of, and I think to your prior point, that's probably in important. I mean, like, whatever I
convey is what I can convey. I'm not trying to sell joy. Mh. The gospel genuinely brings me joy. It gives me some hope when times are tough and it gives you kind of an eternal perspective, which is so helpful. It's... So little bit of a D tour. I was at a state conference a little while ago and draper, my wife and I were getting acquainted with a state presidency and and 1 of the counselors confessed he was just this rapid baseball fan.
He was really passionate about the La Dodgers and he told us that he records every Dodgers baseball game. He doesn't watch it live. He just records it. And then once the game's is over, he checks the score. And if the dodgers win he watches the game, and if they lose, he deletes it. So he said. So If I'm watching the game and in the fourth inning, they gave the dodgers give up a 3 round home run, I don't fret because I know in the m. Mh. The dodgers win every game them watch.
And we have that perspective in the church as well. So even within in those innings of life where we give up a home run or commit a few errors, we know that in the end, those that strive to keep their covenants with Christ when. Yeah. And that can give us if not joy at least peace when we're going through half times. Yeah. Yeah. That's really powerful. So at So you're still a 70. Right. And that's your office in your general 3 70. So are there still lingering responsibilities Yes
that you do for that? I was in Rupert Idaho, last week weekend in For state conference and we'll be in Ash Idaho this week weekend in on Conference. And So I still have state conference assignments. They're lighter than the load of of other general authorities, which, I'm appreciative of, but first and foremost, I'm a 70. And then when it comes to church... But your day job is you work at to
call college right. That just happens to be general authorities always have assignments and the role and sometimes you're assigned to the missionary department other times you're assigned to temple and family history and my assignment this point service just happens to be the Way home. Yeah. Now you have Fried done several state conferences or pre reside to steak commerce. What's your approach walking into a state conference or working with the steak presidency, anything
that's unique or come to mind? Yeah. I it's my approach has probably summed up by something that president Nelson has said recently. He said, true disciples build, lift, courage persuade and inspire. And he was teaching us about disciples shift then, but I also think that that's great
counsel for leaders. And so my general approach is the first and foremost to testify of the savior be a witness of his name and special witness at his name, but also to look for opportunities to build and lift and purge persuade and inspire. President Nelson articulated that in a way that's been really helpful, but I learned that lesson for my wife. Our youngest son is 14 years old. His name is Christian, and he has autism. At this stage in his life, he's very high functioning.
If you met him, you probably wouldn't guess that. But when he was younger, it was tough sled. And we had lots of therapy. He was in a special school, part of a requirement to be in that school was for the parents to get coaching and therapy to help our children with special
needs. And 1 of the things that we learned there and it's something my wife was constantly reminding me of early days is the best way to change the behavior of a special needs child is to catch them doing good things and praise them for it. My tendency when when he was younger, he would just smack the fire out of his siblings. He'd... You know, we had... You know, we had 1 of those many bands when, you know, 1 of those church member minivan vans. And there's 3 car seats in the
background. Right. And we'd put him in the middle. He would just lean over. He grab his sister's hair. A heat smack in the face and Wow, my inclination as a father would be to say stop. Yeah. We don't do that. And my wife would say, we're not gonna change his behavior if we if we do it that way. So what she would do is she would grab his hand, and she would say,
Christian, we use soft hands. And then she would grab his hand, and then she would have him stroke his sister's knee, and then would say Christian, good job. That's exactly the way Mh. That we touch our siblings. And over the course of time with that type of love and that type of praise, he became a new kid. Mh. And he's just such a loving kid. Right. And he loves he loves my wife because of what she's done for him. And in fact, he asked me a little while ago. He said, hey
You. When you die, I can marry mom. Right? Christian, that's not the way to work. It's And then he asked me a little while later, He's like, hey, when you die, I get all your money. Right? So so I when I slept with 1 Eye I open for a wild. But I think So to go back to your question, it's, you know, it's to first and foremost, it's to teach the gospel of Jesus Christ in the witness of him. And while doing that look for opportunities to
build and list and encourage. And sometimes it's a congregation more often than not, it's an individual. Yeah. And I would hope I've been with your good brother. Yeah. As a stake president, and I would hope that stake presidents would feel. You know, at least a little encouraged or at least feel like they had a friend after I left their stake sense. Yeah... I, for my time I'm in a stake Pre, there was sort of that, you know, okay. And visiting authorities c you know, man.
I hope there's an encouraging voice and most definitely 99 percent of the time there was, you know Yeah. And so it's... I think that's just so many lessons to learn as a leader when a, maybe a steak president goes and visits award or, the bishop stops in in Sunday school or whatever. Yeah. It
shouldn't feel like an audit. Yeah. Exactly. In fact, usually, you know, we talk about their description of doctor and covenants that there's a promise that when the saints assemble themselves together that spirit will be poured out upon them. Mh. And we'll we'll say, so what does that look like and feel like, and we'll go to galatians where it says the fruits of the spirit are love, and joy, and peace.
And there's a long list of other things, but, you know, usually, my objective in the state conferences is that people will leave encouraged in their faith in Christ, having felt love joy peace. Yeah. That's so I tell them, hey, if we If you stumble over your conducting notes or the technology doesn't work, you sm your way through the atom as long as long as people feel the love joy peace that comes through the gospel Jesus Christ and we're gonna count this
weekend in a success. Yeah. Have you seen that because you go to so many I mean, stay conferences as you see different approaches and different things. Anything cool you've seen or a unique approach that the steak has done? So I was with this stay present and in Rupert Idaho this past weekend, and I was touched by him he every Thursday, he goes out visiting. And he's really caught the vision that you can't mag your calls in the church under
the rooftops of chapel. Mh. You mag magnifier your calls in living rooms and sometimes on door staffs. And I was really touched by that. Mh. And he was a great teacher. Great great messages in the meetings that he taught in. But the hallmark of his service his his ministry 1 by 1, particularly in the homes of those that he does That's powerful. Yeah. And so simple. Yeah. Very simple. Yeah Yeah. Awesome.
Anything else on your notes that you wanna make sure we cover before we wrap up or, I I have 1 little story that I, yeah, could share on the on the wrap app if we're they. Yeah. Let me ask just give us your... I mean, Idaho. I mean, you are the hear the face of your way. Out to some extent. Right? Like, so, you know, the... You're... Have these leaders who are focused on the youth and helping them, you know, make big life decisions you know, ideally, missions maybe in there. And
why do you y you Idaho? Or what would you say, you know let me sell it to us? Well, I'll tell you what we've been surprised. We expected when we went up to be where Idaho that it was... That this was a place that people could grow in their disciples ship. It is a protected enclave. The faculty, and as well as the students are very much aligned with the teachings of living prophets and apostles. The 2 things I was really surprised by 1 was the quality of education and 2 what a fun place.
Southeastern Idaho can be. We have an unparalleled faculty. We have really small class sizes as the average class size is 27. Oh, wow. So the faculty they know their students by name. Mh. And they have impressive pe and a lot of them have made a immense somewhere else and have just decided they wanted to back and so they've come to teach in Rex Idaho help. And in the the second thing that's been a surprise. It is a really fun campus. Didn't know what to expect in Southeastern Idaho.
I should have known better. Maybe people come from all over to vacation Southeastern Idaho to do corporate retreats there. But it's a really fun place to be. Nice. Nice. And it's it's cold, but it's still fun in the winter. So that's awesome. Well, I have... I guess, last question I have. And then if the typical question I I have, but if if there's more that you wanna say, feel free to expand, but As you reflect on your time as a leader, how was being a leader helped you
become a better follower of Jesus Christ. That's a great question. Fact I is that was anticipating this interview I was thinking. And I know this is the leading saints podcast, but I I feel like I'm much better follower than I am a leader. And I strive to follow the savior and to follow the profit, and I think that's what brings me the greatest joy in this life. Awesome. Anything else we left off? Do you
wanna say? Yeah. When I was... When new general authorities are called, there's a a meeting the Wednesday before for that April conference. And it's for the new general authorities and their spouse is. And it's the first official meeting that you have. And you never know who else is gonna be there. I was serving as a mission president at the time. And so the meeting is in the church administration building in the conference room that's right in between present Nelson and present Oaks office.
So my wife and I we were the first ones there. We were standing in the foyer there. Just feeling terribly inadequate About what was about to happen. They let us in a little bit early, and so we could see the name plates in front of all the chairs around the conference room table there of who else was being called, that was in salt Lakes. There there were some brother that were called that zoomed down
from other places. But they're in Salt Lake, the first name that I saw was Clark Gilbert, and I've known Clark Since By days, and we all knew Clark was gonna be a general authorities. It's just amazing and And then right next to him was Michael them who used to run by you broadcasting, he and I worked together when he was in area 70. I was emotionally amazing teacher just so good. And then the other name was Via.
Mh And we're all bi affair. Yeah. And I saw those names and those feelings of ina just got worse. You know, there's this old saying that what is it comparisons the thief of joy? Yeah. I just started thinking about how smart Clark was and what a master teacher Mike Don was and just what An amazing example an athlete that bi was. And I was really kinda wall and Patrick Ke was there. He was the senior president of the 70 at the time. And he told us something that gave me
a great deal of comfort. He said Brothers and sisters talking to us wives. He said in the church today, we need leaders who will love the people lift the people and witness of the name of the savior. And I thought, you know what? If that's the job description, if that's what need is needed of may and this role then sign me up because I'll love, and I'll do my best at left. And I can witness of him because he has been my savior, and I'm happy to witness to others that he can be there.
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It came as a result of the position of leadership, which was imposed upon us by the God of heaven who brought fourth a restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ. And when the declaration was made, concerning the own and only true and living church upon the face of the earth. We were immediately put in a position of loneliness. The loneliness of leadership from which we cannot shrink nor run away and to which we must face up with bold and courage and ability.