Everyone, Kurt Frank from leading saints here and over the next few days, I'm gonna do something a little bit different. Give you a little extra content because Here's the cool of things that's happening. I'm really excited about this. On starting June eleventh, the Hello Saints
virtual summit is beginning, and this is... After the same pattern that we've done with some of our virtual conferences where we have a online place, people can gather across the world and listen to various presentations as if we're all attending a conference together. And, of course, this Hello saints virtual conference, Virtual summit is all about inner faith work. So Pastor Jeff has taken various people from the Latter Saint side, and from the protestant side, I'm included in that
mix. And he's talking about how we can better come together in it with a spirit of inner faith and understand 1 another. And start these conversations. And so I had the opportunity of leading 1 of these, I guess you could call it a panel discussion, and I was 1 bishop talking with 4 protestant pastors, and we talked to all things leadership. You know, how how do you... What's your typical week like, how do you lead? What what are the problems that really keep
you up at night? How were you... How did you feel called into this this ministry? And we have a phenomenal, you know, leadership discussion. And so this is 1 of many, clips That I'm gonna share over the next few days. Various clips from this discussion. And it's all in an effort to get you excited about this virtual conference that you can sign up for at no cost free. If you go to hello saints dot com, you
can see all the links. We'll put the links in the description with this, recording, and go sign up for free. Just put your email address in and you're good. You can watch it day to day and benefit from the experience, and I'm excited to watch day to day. Myself. So here is a clip from my conversation with 4 evangelical pastors. Everyone, my name is Kurt Frank with leading saints, and I have the opportunity to host.
This session of the Hello Saints virtual summit, even though Jeff is is on stage with me, I'm I'm taking control and leading out here. Because before, Jeff and I, with 2 other ladder Saint bishop, we had a panel discussion that Jeff led. As a as a pastor. And we talked about, some of those dynamics that, Latter Saint Church leaders experience. And so we're kind of turn on the tables on that dynamic where I'm the the Latter Saint Bishop who is talking with 4 fantastic.
Evangelical protestant pastors. And we're gonna just have a good casual friendly conversation see what we learn Discover and, there... They seem like a a group of of great guys. So there may be some laughter here and there and I welcome that. So, just by way jet, introduction. Maybe Jeff, let's start with you. I'd love to just go around the room. And just maybe give a a paragraph introduction, put yourself into context if how long you've you been past where you're from? Those types of things?
Yeah. So as far as I'm concerned, I, pastor in Belle, Illinois. For, many years and pass it alongside Curtis, not at the same church, but we... Our church has partnered quite a bit. Yep. And Yeah. I I have been in various roles in ministry, which is a pretty common thing. I think all...
All 4 of us are gonna start nodding our heads when I talk about the typical path that a lot of pastors take where you you kinda have an interest in student ministry slash youth ministry, you dabble that for a while and maybe go and get some more education or coordination and,
Kyle, I don't know if you... If you were in there, but I didn't I did music for a while as well, but you know, eventually, after moving beyond what was more of a volunteer type of situation for me, became full time at a church, almost 15 years ago, more and pastor up until a couple years ago whenever I stepped aside to focus more on Hello, and relocating the Utah, Awesome. Curtis. Let's go with you next.
Hey hey. Yeah. I am Curtis Gilbert and, like, Jeff mentioned, I was able and been blessed to pass alongside of him, and what call Metro East, which is a kinda of illinois suburbs of Saint Louis. And, been passed during for many years. Starting as a youth ministry, the youth... Youth pastor,
at... Even at the the church that I'm leading at now, was used pastor left for about a decade to lead another the church and and, a year and A half back into leading as a senior pastor of this church in a community called Shiloh, Illinois. Awesome. Kyle is jump you next. Kyle. You can go ahead. Oh, sorry. Didn't hear you. Yeah. You're good. Yeah. Yeah. I catch you. Hey. My name is Kyle Bash shea. I don't pay attention to think this like at all, I'm just kidding... You're there is the.
I'm a I'm a pastor Mobile, Alabama where I've been serving at a non denomination church for 11 years, and I've run the ga of responsibilities. Ryan? Anything from facilities to preaching and teaching. Mainly what I do now is preaching and teaching and counseling, Married, we have a little girl, originally, from Indiana, so not from, Mobile, Alabama, if you're wondering what's wrong with the accent. But I also have AAA keen interest in, in,
studying the Latter Saint. Faith in tradition. So when I did my Phd at southern seminary in religious studies. I looked at ask, a history of within, the L history, and I have a book coming out as an introduction to L j's in practice and traditions for a traditional Christian audience. Awesome. And then we'll end with introductions with my fellow Utah, Nate. Right. Yeah. My name Dave Fox. I'm a pastor in Here, Utah, and my story of becoming a pastor pretty
pretty un timely. Like, I I went to bible school, Chicago, Moody Bible institute, my my wife there. And then I was working in kind of the sports apparel industry kinda launch my career into that, but kinda dabbling in what's called church planting where I was hanging out with you know, other guys who were starting brand new churches did that in the Seattle Tacoma area And then wasn't really full time as a pass, but just just,
you know, helping out as I could. And then, my career took me to a sports apparel company in Pro, Utah. Moved here 22 years ago as a marketing director, product development director. And then, in 2010, after a crew in that, I ended up becoming the youth pastor and a church called Center point Norm. Her and I was there for about a decade, and now I'm lead pastor at a church called
Left Church in Here Utah. So little bit different pathway than a lot of guys, but I'm, I'm here in Utah and I'm know Love bit pass. Love it. Awesome. Awesome. Well, and this kinda will launch us into the first
question I have, just from the... My my own context, you know, here I was living in a condo in South Salt Lake, sort of the inner city, newly wed, just a few years, and, and had no attention of, you know, going into ministry as as you may may call it or being asked to to be the lead pastor or a bishop of a congregation. But as you know, we we function by a La ministry. And just the nature of that ward with a bunch of with our condominium complex, A bunch
of apartments. Leadership was generally... We called on as an in a younger age, so I'm got 28 year old marketing grad. I get the phone call to come meet with our our stake pet president and the the the invitation is extended to me to serve as the bishop of the Lee ward or the Lee ward congregation for about 5 years. And so there I was thrust into that, trying to to to swim more than I I think and and learning all sorts of things And so I'm curious just about that
dynamic of the calling. You know, in our our faith tradition, the calling is almost overly formalized where... Sort of like your assignments, what you've been asked to do to help out around the church. But if someone had asks you, like, where did this calling of service come or start, what how would you tell that story in in in a... Or summarize that story? He wants to jump in first. I'll go ahead. So I grew up in a pastor family. We moved current quite a bit all over the country.
Into Canada, did a did a little missionary stint for 3 years in Cameron in West Africa. So pastor missionary kid, and we call it MKPK in the evangelical world. And I was also homeschool school, So I home kid, pastor kid, missionary kid. I got all the strengths against me. There's no reason I should be okay. I don't know if that's a joke that anybody else get, but I... I it's it's the joke in the even evangelical community.
That being said, along the way, even as a kid, you know, we you would grow up in in church and back in the... Probably the eighties and nineties. This was more prevalent Sunday school. And I know that was... That's a thing in the the L community, we've go to Sunday school, and I just... I remember Sunday school teachers going, you're gonna be a pastor or someday. You know, it's just got affirmation,
you're gonna be a pastor someday. And it was always... I took it as a compliment because I really do like my dad. You know, I was like, a, hey, I could be like that someday. That... That that was just a little kid dreaming of kinda going... Okay. I like my dad. I could be like that. But then later in high school, I was like, no, I don't wanna I don't wanna be a pastor. But this sounds terrible.
And really started to look into other things and, but that same messaging from my fellowship of Christian athletes leader, other other people in ministry going, hey. I really think you... You might wanna pursue that. And so that came to a head after graduating for me, right around my senior year of high school, praying about this a lot more. Crazy enough. I'm the high school Inquire and I had a choir teacher that had graduated from the Moody Babylon institute Chicago, and
he was amazing, great mentor wonderful man. And and he he he poured into me Ton. And I was like, I'm gonna go to Moody. I'm gonna go figure it out. And sure enough right before going to Moody I just really sense, God was laying on my heart to go into ministry. And then it didn't happen. Like I said before in my introduction, I was an full on ministry for, like, another 14 years.
And so it was, like, guy was, like, pause, you know, and and The coolest thing about it is sensing not just a call ministry, but a call ministry here in Utah. And all of the nuances that that kinda of flow in and out of what it's like to do ministry with L mds people. And with people in this culture, and I love it. And I feel called to this, and I had an experience moving out here.
And this wasn't for ministry, like I said, I moved out here for marketing and, product development with a sports company. But I remember having in this experience. Right as we were about to cross the Columbia river from Washington into Oregon right there by Vancouver and Portland. And we were moving to Pro Utah. Didn't know anybody except all the guys that I worked with at a company called Pro Sports, and they were all really devout return missionaries, buddies from Southern Utah University,
And I... And I didn't know anybody else, and I said, I feel like we're going to Utah. And we have... I don't I said, I told me my wife. This is I I feel like this is more than just a job. This is a ministry. This is a calling. This is a mission. And deeply sensed it in that moment, you know, in a parking lot at a at a Fred meyer. And and then they're crossing the river into into Oregon and driving the rest of way of the Utah going. K. This is where god wants me to be,
and I've been here for 22 years. For a guy who's only lived about 2 and a half, 3 years everywhere during the course of my entire life to for god to kinda plant me here for 22 years straight is a little odd. It feels weird. But my wife and I raised our family here, We'd love it here. But I don't think we would have stuck if there wasn't a profound sense of calling from the Holy Spirit to be here. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Curtis, what about you? Did did god put this calling on your heart?
Yeah. He did. You know, I think my story, you know, a bit different in, much of my younger years was was not what I would... What would call walking with the lord in any way or Christian in any way. I lived life for myself. And passionately did so. And so, I went off to college at our State University, to study business. It was a number 1 business school at the time of the area that I was folks again, and I went there because I just wanted to make a lot of money and live the leave them at east.
And, that's actually was my plan for this my life to just be, either vice president of sales and marketing. Or Ceo or whatever case may be, where year after college, that's when I that's when Jesus just invaded my life, and it was in it was soon after that where Christianity, Jesus Christ became real to me that I sent kinda that call Like, I think there something else he's gonna do in my life. To be honest, I didn't want that, but to be to... I I love business still
do love business. In fact, I had have been looking for way out of ministry for a long time. The lord was like, nah. This what you're gonna do, fool, quit asking. Oh, And so and so and so, you know, soon after that, you know, my... I I just was Sir surrounded community that 1, I knew enough that he was calling me to do something just to help people I had a love for his
word. I thought it was just on the side as volunteer, but just do circumstances into the encouragement of my wife and friends, I stepped into youth ministry, and that's when I realized. Okay. I think I think it's more than just a hobby or side activity that I think it's actually supposed to be my whole life. And and I've been doing it ever since. That was 2006 or 7 that I stepped in, And here I am, still at it.
And and the best I could say is has been the calling Like, what the scripture says is the the word of the lord came. Was like, that... That's that's kinda how it came. And, you know, It's was like, as mysterious and weird does that sounds? Like, I man, I wouldn't be here, Jesus didn't called me, I had other options. He just over overrule those. And so and and and I said that with Joy as in, I get to be a part of serving, god's people. So Yeah. It's my story. Awesome.
And I don't imagine. I mean, I'm I'm sure, you know, God puts the, you know, some puts an invitation of service or calling on individual's harp. That doesn't necessarily mean they have to go full time or maybe it's just a volunteer effort or, yeah, I mean, it's probably a. Yeah. Yes. I would say most people functioning in that way. And And I and I think that's a good thing. You know? Right. Just give you... The goal just give your life away. In whatever capacity that it calls you to? Yeah.
Let's go to Kyle, what Tell the brief story of how how you were called in this in the ministry? Yeah. It sounds my story sounds like it parallels a bit with Curtis story. If you were to tell me when I was, you know, in my early twenties, I was gonna be a pastor, I would laugh. Out loud at you. Like there's no way. That that would be who I would become. But in the Lord has other plans. In evangelical, calling to become a pastor is typically slow and informal, and there's kind of a lot of streams
that pull into it. There is this kind of inner subjective tag to ministry. There's a very famous baptist London pastor Charles Spur who basically is like, look, if if you can see yourself doing anything else besides preaching, go do it. But if you can't and and got fixed you in a certain white pursue it and pursue it relentlessly. So there is that kind of, like, inner tag, and then there is kind of external affirmation. People
out of nowhere. So have you ever considered being a pastor or, you know, your natural talents, in the spiritual gifting that the holy spirit have given you are kind of pointing in a certain direction. I don't know if you have noticed that or not. And then and then just, like, looking back at your life in in how the Lord orchestrate certain seasons of your life to prepare you. To to to enter into a local ministry. We've had incredible opportunities.
I... We... We're... We got to live overseas for for a season in Germany and England and in those times, in Germany because we're English speakers, we were, like, quickly promoted to teaching English speaking bible studies. So, like, like minister administering to people, by teaching in disciples ship 1 on 1 in evan that was kind of our our first stop.
We moved to England to Cambridge, and we lived there for 3 years and we were given the opportunity to to lead and to oversee a cluster of community groups, disciples ship group, so that kind of, you know, got our our our appetite wet for ministry. And then the a church in mobile, Alabama that we've been associated with before we left the United States called, and they said, like, this is a long shot. Would you ever wanna come back to the to the Gulf Coast,
We have a position for you. It's gonna be, like the pastor of miscellaneous. Long story short, the church that I'm a part of, like, ax I planted a second church. It started as a a bible study and just blew up. And so they said, like, we we know you... We we sensed, like God's calling in a ministry, would you ever come back. And that was a really big step of faith for us, moving from Cambridge to movie, Alabama.
But the Lord blessed that and honored it and, there's not quite an instruction manual for ministry, but what I've noticed is, there are other men and women around you that that got that got intentionally. Places around you to to help you. Yeah. And so I've I've been personally enriched by ministry, by being in this role, it's it's difficult it... The burnout rate is very, very high for for pastors.
So if you don't have that calling. Like some days, when I come home, it's just because the calling is still there that I wanna keep going. Like, that that I wanna return, that next Sunday. So, yeah, that's a great question, and probably a pretty mysterious opaque process from the L perspective looking in. Awesome. Jeff, what about you? What's what's your story? Yeah. It seems like I articulate quite often how I ended up in Utah being a Youtube pastor, but there's so much backstory there.
I grew up in a Christian family, and it was, you know, probably junior high camp that I went to in 19 93 that I was like, I'm gonna... I wanna go on ministry. I'm wanna be a pastor. And then never thought about it again. Every kid that goes to camp past. So... Yeah. I I pretty much went into college. My mom telling me you're gonna be a pastor 1 day and me saying, no. Thank you. But, I started leading worship. I was really involved in the music at the church.
And in 2000 pretty much took the position as the main worship leader at the church I grew up at, and that was when I was graduating high school going into college. And and intern at that church for a summer during college. And it was after that internship that I was, like, no. Thanks. I don't think ministries. Internships Do that. Didn't money y'all just say out to you that you did internship and it was like, no thanks.
So... Yeah. The long the short of it is, I, you know, got the degree in audio video production went into radio Tv, marketing, I was working at a company called Network Solutions in Swan Illinois, and I was standing outside of Hr after I just fired a guy, And it was like, it was almost a the damascus road type of experience almost. I just felt the lord quite clearly say
this isn't it. The ain't it. Like, I want you to take all of these desires, passions gifting I've given you and use them for something that's more directly tied to eternity.
So that was probably 2007 and, contacted, you know, the the church that I was associated with at the time, started helping out with student because when my wife and I did that when we were in college, we did some college ministry, And so, yeah, 2008 was technically when I really started pressing into ministry while I was still in the corporate world. And here's the deal. And and it it's it's crazy how this works out.
It was a big decision for us because we're stepping out of... I was flying up the corporate ladder. Secure job, insurance, we're getting ready to have kids. It it didn't really make sense. I mean, stigma was attached to it. Pastors do not make money. K? We make a... We we... We're vocational, a lot of us. We get paid to do our ministry, but I ain't didn't ain't that much. So we're looking at a paid cut. We were looking at, you know, worse insurance, all that stuff.
And I met with this church I met with the church leadership. There was a desire to bring me on in an administrative role that would be sort of an under study role to move into more of a pastor role And when we joined, I prayed about it for a couple years and finally said yes, a softball size, growth was discovered in my wife's abdomen right after 1 of our kids was born. Our house, that same summer, was falling into a coal mine. It was our first house we ever built. So bricks
are falling away from the house. We couldn't open doors, and our our our... It seems like everything tied to our livelihood was crumbling around us. We could not find a doctor that was willing to operate on joy. We went to the best abdominal surgeon to wash you, and they he's like, I'm not touching this. And it was about a year long process of us being like, Lord, you've called us in the ministry. We're stepping out, and it seems like everything's falling apart. You.
And it was a matter... It it took about a year. Before the lord brought the right physicians in and he'll joy. There was over a year for us to get our house situation figured out, where we're able to sell it, take insurance money, get out of the... What we call the crack house because it were cracks all over it. You're word you talk? He's was actually right at the road from you. It was Shot. Oh, yeah. As a as a pastor when you write that book, the title from Crack house to
minute. You know, Okay. Gonna sell Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. No, right when all that stuff started to get resolved, we've we said yes. We... We notified the church that we were gonna come on staff. I was gonna start a sort of a coordination rule with the idea of stepping into into greater pastor responsibilities. And the week that I said yes to that church. I was promoted to director of design services at Network Solutions. And here we are again. The lord just, like wave after wave.
Being, like, you sure about this? You sure about this. And We were sure about it. I didn't wanna bang the Hollow drum of the corporate world anymore. I wanted to go in into ministry. So... Yep. I said yes to the position because I wasn't ready to put in my 2 weeks. And a couple months later. We we stepped away and and launched in the ministry, and we've been doing it ever since. Yeah. Yeah. That the the... That those are awesome stories. And I don't think... Maybe you don't realize just how
how much we... At least me is a Latter saint, How much I appreciate those type of stories because in our faith with the Lame ministry, You know, if somebody feel... If somebody shows up to church on Sunday, and it mentions someone, oh, wow. I just feel the lord on my heart. I feel like I'm being called it. To to be the next bishop of this ward. They would look at you like, dude. Like, you gotta to pump the brakes? Like, what gives you the rise do those things and it seems maybe upside down or
backwards when you compare those things. And and this is part of our, culture I'm I'm hoping to to help shift where you know, because as we read Timothy. Like, if you desire the office of a bishop, you desire good work, you know, and and and I want people to feel like, yeah, you have purpose here, like God's calling you into this and, sometimes we get overly formalized with our... Well, you know, well, we're gonna ask you to just teach Sunday school and just don't,
you know, just do that for now. We're sometimes where there's maybe more potential to really allow people to feel a calling in their in their, congregation and and lean into that and see what the lord has for them, and and these stories are just example of example of how that can bless your life even when that opposition comes. So it's really a really powerful. I I think maybe Kyle mentioned something alluded to this. As far as that,
you know, I... Obviously, there's some there's some pluses and minuses of being a pastor and the livelihood and and the demands you have and, you know, the burnout that comes from these things. Like, I remember feeling that as a Bishop, but at least I knew that there was a sunset to this calling. You know, it was generally A56 year thing, and I knew that Like, you know, there was life after this type of thing. And and I...
I'm just curious as far as not only the burnout dynamic, but also the sometimes the validation that can coax people into these roles that maybe they're mis mis misinterpreted that validation for a calling for as a calling from God. I mean, what... And what thoughts coming to mind as far as reconciling that that validation that comes as being the lead pastor or the guy on the stage on? On some.
Alright, guys. Look for another clip. Maybe another day or go back to see some of the the past clips that we've we've shared And, go to hello saints dot com and register for free for this virtual conference that starts June eleventh. It's gonna be a remarkable experience, and well, I'm part of it. So, of course, you wanna see it. So hello saints dot com and be a part of these, the Hello saints virtual summit.