“Improv Boat” (w/ Ty Sunderland)

told me that you've been using lately. So the one that I've noticed you using is saying, well, the headline is blank, so I was just sure, but this is I I can't attribute that to me. It's just something I've picked up. I love. It's not a creation. That's okay, You're you're propagating it. So you're saying, like, um, whatever, brunch was fine, but the headline is the mimosas were great. Yeah, And like that's an example. And then the other one, can you know, the one is everyone when something is

shaking your world. So, for example, we'll talk about Camilla's new album. All right, So I arrived at the studio today and I've been listening to new Camilla and I'm I'm gagged. I actually have to come out today as a Camilla's fan. So what I would say about this new album is when I listened to it, I would say the word all rock has been used. She's given me some almost alternative rock wisps in her new music. I'm not kidding. What are your references like? Like, feel

she's serving you some atlantis? Oh, I feel like she has made a turn away from and this is again so that the headline is the thing I'm saying is the word blank has been used. Okay, so the word breakout has been stop. But this is so this is the little brag from my girl, just a literal alert. This is the this is the new catch the word the word the word blank has been the word blank has been now moving out to Camilla, which is culture. Yes, just what this podcast we should be talking we should

be talking about it. I just want to say Camilla is saying both her performances at SNL were I'm sorry but giving you acting. Okay, we can talk about her wardrobe, we can talk about it, but in terms of the musical content, it's it's good we're being served and we're also it's it's risky stuff. For me. It feels very emotional and lyrical and almost like pop rocky. But listen, that's what she was giving you on her eponymous album,

her debut solo album. I mean, never be the Same and Never Be the Same is so good, Such a slow simmer of a song that just like grows and grows, and oh it's so thick and juice. I feel even a progression on this. Do you know the song speechless? That song is be good and easy is easy, is very good, not to be tampered, not to be tampered with. And wow, I mean what I mean? Yeah, I are we standing Chamilla in this house? So anyway, those are the headlines. It's been a long time since we've recorded

you and I hear sitting together. We have backlog, we've backlodged, I think, yeah, I think we've um backlog and and the listeners are a little upset. But we but here, we are, here, we are and we will we will have this worked out. I think we have proposed solutions to each other that I think, well, everyone will be very happy way, so don't you worry about that. And can I tell you what the headline is from me in l A driving okay, behind the wheel of a car,

and it's not good. It's dangerous. Okay, Okay, let's let's get into this. But I just want to say that that is not the best use of that phrase. The headline is driving driving, that's great. So are you good at it? Are you bad at it? What are your what are your habits? What do you like to do? What's your what's your comfortable point? My habit is panicking. So I'm in a habit of every time I get in the car being like, well, this year, here we go, and I do have a full ask license. I don't

want anyone to be concerned. I am legally allowed to be there. It's just that, like, you know, let's just say I don't always know that I can make a turn onto a street. I just I'm doing it, Okay, you know what I mean? Does that make sense? Like if there's a if there's a red light, and I'm trained to turn right on red, I don't know some cities and cities haven't figured out what the situation is with l A, but I am turning right on red. I think if you're in a part of town where

the buildings are more than ten stories tall. I think what I think you can't? No, no, no, this is my arbitrary made up okay, because for all I know, that could be really And I'm like, what, like I just learned that you can't park where there's a red paint on the sidewalk. What the fund is this? That's what it means. That's that's thenation. But it's Um, I feel like in a heavily in a dense urban area, you can't make right turns on red Okay, So I think that should be your rule of thumb. But just

I just turned. I can't drive without turning on the ways. As long as you have ways, it won't, it'll it'll. I have my and you know, luckily my whatever device. I mean, I'm using a Google like drive Directions regular app. So maybe I shouldn't. Maybe I should get a better one, Maybe I should get ways. And all I know is the woman who's talking to me from the phone, Yeah, oh this gives me enough time, Like it's like you need to turn right here. I always have enough time.

And I'm thankful to that woman, who we'll call Allison. Allison. Um, I think you'll get better at it. I think it's something that people acqual It's a skill that people acquire through through time and practice. Um, please be careful, I'm going. I'm I'm extraordinarily careful. Parting is very much a thing. But I'm here in one piece. And can I tell you what they don't have in l A. They don't have our guests. They don't have our guests, and they

are talking about it. They don't have our guests, are they really? Because you go into some piste off queens who are like, please give us songs with damn lyrics? Do you want to know? And they're but they're also just saying the vibe is not present in Los Angeles.

And I'm sorry, I know it's not shade. It's just a stating of the facts that, like, you don't have parties like but you know what that in Los Angeles you do not be Also in New York you don't have parties like let's say ospin Off where they sell giant slices of watermelon outside. We love, we love, and we stand. But it's it's it's not I mean, nothing can compare. Nothing. Talked about how much fun we had this year at Pride. This year at Pride we had.

That was one of the best parties I've ever been to. Mind, I was gonna say superlative, the funnest night of my life. Our guest is a working entertainer. It was the funnest night of my life. It was all the people I cared about and loved in one place. It wasn't even about like, you know, debauchrous behavior or sex or anything.

I truly like joy. It was pure joy. I was so it was just so so fun And there's and like there was such a history around the party, Devil's Playground and bringing it to Webster Hall and like bringing sort of that back into Webster Hall with like this queer uh he's sort of like uh funnel like Athos. Truly truly truly got like I get emotional thinking about it, and also just talk about music that you hear and you're like he turned to someone on your side and

you go, who is this fag? This which you know? I am Madison the Third I don't know a better DJ. The moment moment of Devil's Playground, both Pride and Back to School was him playing who do you Think You Are? By Spice Girls and all of us, O, my God, this song. It's it's you. It's a gift to be able to pull out of thin there the next song that you know what I mean, like you in your heart knew it was the next song. And I'll tell you something. You take to the feeling into emotion by Mariah.

You can't be the gag every time you hear since you've been gone in a set the gag. I literally it'll be a since you bring up will come on. Everyone will drop their arms and all my friends that know me will look at me and I'll just go I'll just not like that. I'm telling them I'm okay. And Ty has our guest, has facilitated that for you. Okay.

So it's Devil's Playground and Webster Halt to come back on Valentine's Um Love Prism at three dollar Bill Gay Flower in the summertime themed Booze Cruises basically um Circle line and oh my God, what else means? Heaven on Earth truly take over? Uh, It's New York Knite life is going through newyr gay Knight life is going through a moment right now, and even even like I was gonna say say even but like Susan Barsht esque s but like of that, of that DNA. It's it's all

glooming back in this way. That's very exciting that everyone feels a part of an included um and good about it and good about it um. So we're so happy to have our guests and talk the name, know the name. Please welcome to your ears. Tie Sunderland Tie is called We. We saw Tie at Webster Hall for Back to School Devil's Playground and we said you have to come on the pot and then Tie says the thing that I will never forget. He goes, oh, I have to you

guys are gay hardball and we laughed. In days it's like there's a lot of things going on. Everyone's talking. It's like culture culture, culture, Like it's like really loud. I'm like, yeah, this is gay hard I mean I thought I thought about like what gay hardball would actually be if I actually were Christ Matthews, like asking Kelly on Convery, how do your bottom hardball? In that way? But I'm happy that that's I'm happy that Chris Matthews

isn't here. I don't trust him to ask you those questions. No, no, of course not. I trust Bowen, but not in that abrasive way. No, but that's Chris Matthew's Christ Matthews ERG, that's Chris Matthew's energy tie. Um, how was however these past two weeks both weeks I meant to I bought tickets. Um, I meant to go oh sorry I um oh no, I didn't buy tickets for Love Prison, but I unceremoniously damn you and was like, hey, I might be able to come up. I may roll through. I may roll through. Um,

how are they? How are the last two parties? They were amazing? Great? Yeah? I mean how is orange? Orange? Was? It was a nice move orange, Like you know the colors for Love Prison. Every time more and more people are wearing the color, and like orange is such a bright, chaotic energy. It was, yes, yes, but it was like very chaotic, and I was like, I was like, wow, a lot of people are in orange, and like who

owns orange? Honestly I own some orange items, but it's truly once in a year moment that you wear anything. Right right next when it's gold, that will be fun, yes, because I was going to do yellow but liked because once you've done yellow, you can't do gold exactly. Oh that's not true. I believe it is, but I mean by the time you've done yellow, you want to move on to something else, right, right, right? I live in

the same family. Okay, that's true, And we're doing gold and I think that will be I think people will turn out with their gold stuff. And then there's a Navy one beginning of next year because and then I will be doing a full spectrum party. It's like a full of colors. I want to do like a warehouse function. Now I would say that you have some you have one party for like every kind of scale of group of people. Does that make sense? Is that? Like that's

that's all intentional? Right? How do you program out your own stuff? Like? Is that? Um? I just try to be like diversify as much as I can. Like, I don't want to be the one pop d J. I don't want to be like the house guy. I want to be doing a bit of everything. Great finger in every pot? Okay? And what what? What pots are there that have no fingers in them? Well? That's like literally what I was looking around when I started like coming

up with my own parties. After having on Earth with such a success, I was like, well, what else is it? Happening because there's no like big pop party. It's either you're in like a big rave setting listening to house music and techno, or you're in the basement of monster right on like a broken sound system. You know how much communication is there between you and the space of like what kind of vibe? Just say, like you come in and do your I literally rent out the space

and no questions are asked. Wow, I was wondering about that, But then I've been I've seen you on the day or the week of an event, let's say Devil's Playground, and it seems like you approach it with the same kind of creative anxiety that like we would like a show that is nowhere near as big as a Webster Hall of thing. But it's like no, But that's what I mean when I say you're an entertainer like that, you are like facilitating and controlling that environment. So that

is a huge show. That is a huge entertainment responsibility. The day of Pride, I was in Mobile. I could not walk, I couldn't like I was catrified. Well, I mean it's such a big space and like being there all day doing setup, I was like I have to deja on this fucking stage, you know, Like it's one thing to like produce the party, but then I have to perform, yeah, and like I have to be introducing like these acts and stuff, and I'm like my big thing is like, how am I going to introduce Kim?

Like like you know, no, not many people know she's performing, and like I'm like, I don't. I'm like, I'm not going to introduce her. I'm not going to say who's coming out on stage? Right, And you didn't. You didn't

say anything. She just came out. I was like, I was like, please make someone for the next performer, like like and she trotted herself and I was like, I want everyone to know that it's Kim when they hear the beginning of I don't know, I don't, like I mean, and then she just comes out to that and that's like wow, Yeah, it's like drama and I really appreciate that, Like it's it's got such a flow, it does have

a narrative, it's it's so much fun. Honestly, there really is something to just like when the when the song shifts to those next iconic moments of a song, that's when you really realize, like those opening moments of a pop song are hugely important, and the iconography of that song where everyone's keys into it and they're like whoa, yeah, I don't know that's that's just what it felt like all night. And I used to stay to that and that's very incredible, now, was it. No, this is what

Josh told me. Della's playground a party at Webster Hall. Drag party Webster Hall in the twenties. Yes, so um. They used to have a drag party at Webster Hall a hundred years ago and it was the only place in the city that you could see drag really and so it was nicknamed the Devil's Playground. And so when I was going through the history Webster and like coming up with, like, you know, my idea, my manager was like, well, you know what, it used to be called Devil's playground,

like when they had their gay parties there. But you can't call it Devil's playground because I know you you're just gonna go around calling it a a d P. I was like, oh, um, okay, well, I guess we're calling a Devil's playground. Because I was looking for an abbreviation. I wanted loves and I mean we are we are in for all types of purposes. LC. By the way, there is a there's Mimosa material in front of us and I forgot to pop it. So this is what I'll say, one, two, three, and I'm this still makes

me nervous to this day. Just do it. Here we go, baby, that will always make me nervous. And now I'm going to service the mimosas. But yes, resume thoughts on Camilla h talk honestly, okay, um, I don't think I really have an opinion about her, like really, for like, in terms of playing her music, I like playing Havana, but that's really it because it's the only song that's been

iconic so far. I mean, even just stuff that works in club space is like you know Miley for example, like her new album was you can't play any of that in the club on a role which had no promotion whatsoever. You play now at a gay bar, everyone freaked the fox out. It's like the first five seconds of that song. And if it's like you know it's coming, you know it's already a classic. I mean that's that is the vibe whenever it comes on. But like this,

this is the thing. It's like there's no telling, at least for the gays. There's no like proportion of like promotional muscle behind a song or like an artist or an album. Two The response, I guess does that make sense? I just it does. I just feel like it's so funny to me that, like it's obvious to me that she must not care about making that kind of music right now, she's genuinely making music that she wants to make because it's so easy for her to just be

involved with something that is that level. By the way, cheers, it is Sunday. The is our brunch. Will nothing else truly, I mean I could right. I'm curious about ties schedule, sleep schedule, what is whatever. It's all over the place, honestly, because like Tuesdays and Wednesdays, I work late, so like I'll get home like four, and I'll be bed by five weekends random, but and then like Sunday, Monday, Thursday,

I'm hopefully in bed by midnight. So it's like you're doing you're doing a seven a m or yeah, but then but then on the other evening, but then you wake up at like noon or what like two. Okay. I love my sleep, and I think that is like everyone always thinks I'm much younger than I actually am, and it's fully because I get ten hours and there you go. That is crucial. Yeah, that is crucial. Wait where you would were you? Were you at in my U? No, but you went to school here in New York. I

went to school at Purchase in Westchester amazing. Yeah, my parents would't let me go to school in the city because I said I'd be out every night. And they're not wrong. Where they where? They would you always from high school age? Where you going out? Where did you grow up? I grew up in Florida, so like I grew up like going to house parties and stuff. But like pretty much the second I turned eighteen, I was like into music, playing music, producing music, like going to raves.

Like I I've always been about it. The culture culture. I guess that must have been something accessible in Florida. But it's very accessible. I mean there's like dance music on the radio, so like that's how I actually started djaying was because when I went to Purchase, there were no parties where you could hear dance music. Everyone was like sitting around listening like a Yeah, I was like, no, this isn't for me. I was like, I'm just going to throw my own parties. And then I couldn't find

a DJ. I was like, Okay, I guess I have to do it too. And so was it just as simple as like let me put some playlists together, and like you started that way fully, Yeah, I'd be like, let me put my iPod on, you know when everyone needs to just plugging an ox. Yeah, that's like what I do a partis like this music sucks? Can I put some music on? And then I was like, Wow, you're really good at you a DJ? And I'm like, no, this is just like what I listened to see. You've

always been good at that. To the you'r a playlist queen, and I like like making them. I don't always make good ones. I don't know, yeah, but they always come from you, you know what I mean? Like I always think it's it's almost it's almost well it is. It's like whenever you're like writing something, it's like it's like that's like a little. If they're really good, they can be like entertainment. It's it's a little, it's it's a form of expression. Absolutely, Yeah, playlist start. I don't I

also love your names for playlists. Yes, I'll be I'll say, well, no they're not like too clever. Sometimes they try to sometimes they try to be too clever. This I'm I feel very vulnerable right now talking about it is a

vulnerable thing because that's the thing too. It's like when people are listening to your stuff, it's like your taste, and so if they're not to respond to something that has to be like a moment, you're basically saying like, this is what I like people are, and people can be like, oh well this is like yeah, you have awful taste. Well then okay, so then let's lock us through different parties where you'll do like okay. So so

DP is very much pop party, huge space. It's it's pop meets like big room classic anthems, you know, like like it's like you hold the pop stuff and then you're gonna hear like, um, you know, was it mad enough for me? Tony Braxton or like like um, how did you get here? Which which is the best song of all times? I mean it'd be hard to argue. It's pretty, it's pretty wild. And then but then for love President, you'll do like you'll do like um, disco

e stuff. It's like disco leaning. House leaning is just like very joy based, how stuff that has vocals in it, you know, because like a lot of the parties in New York that playhouse music, it's like kind of dark. It's like dark energy, and it's like it's you know, there's different strokes for different folks. But I was like, I want to go to a party where I can just like feel joy, but not necessarily pop music. You know. I was like I was already doing pop music, Like

how do I create that joy with different music? But it feels like we're still in a place where the music is on owns, no lyrics, no words, nothing to latch onto. And it's it's good for if you're like, yeah, in a K hole. What I think they're for a certain vibe that is what it requires. Nine times out of ten. If I want to go out, I want

to hear a damn song. Oh, I mean yes for us, I think like if this crowd and I love I love the Circuit Boys so much, but just be open to maybe dancing and sucking dick to a song with words in it. I don't know. I think the Last Love Prison they're definitely coming around. Like there was a lot of yeah, yeah, it's getting How does it make you feel, Um, I'm crossing over? Yes, yeah, there we go for everyone. Yeah, exactly what I don't This is

just me not understanding how circuits work. I famously called poppy juice circuit party on this podcast. Um, and they gave me a short for it. But it's fine, Um, we make mistakes here, please, you have to forgive. We have a recursive duty. I would say that I would like I would say that, like, if you're going to cross over into circuit stuff, you're gonna have to like throw like a circuit destination party, wouldn't you or you wouldn't have to. But it's like, is that mean? I

would love to. I would love to do like a big party somewhere else, you know. Well then I was going to ask because with this l A stuff, they want you they're bad because l A is happening. Can I just say l A is happening? But I heard about a rumor about a boat The boat is canceled because literally I did. I did a poll on Instagram. I was like, I was like, l A if I do a boat party, you guys gonna come or not. Everyone who said no lives in l A w whose ideas.

It was like, you know, like okay, but then I see it on the map. But I was like, yeah, Marina Delright is far from you. Sure it's harder to get them out there. Yeah, I mean like when West Hollywood is there, and when like even some stuff on the East Side is there, it's hard to get I think the gates to travel. Yeah, I mean it's not New York. You know, it's different. I mean, the boat's

right there. But for l A, it's so weird because the center of gravity is his West Hollywood so much so it's like it's a it's a monopsy, which is different than a than a monopoly where it's just like one okay definition like one thing, like it's one thing has contains all of it rather than one thing whatever. Anyway, Um, I totally bift that. But I but it's like in New York it's fun because there's this whatever. It's it's

more fragmented, it's more plural. It's like you can you can get different people from different crowds together, where I feel like in l A it's like you gotta you gotta like appeal to one specific sector of the population, and that is the only sector, and that is the biggest sector of the game in terms of the queer popular. It feels like there are West Hollywood gaze in their East Side gays for sure. Yeah, like that's just there's definitely more a fragmentation, whereas it's a little bit more.

But also in New York there's like hell's I mean, it's it's really the same thing. Sort the number one thing is just the travel of it all, and you have to go to spaces that are big enough. But like you've have you been to a you know you've been of I haven't been to. Oh that's really fun. So I have done one party in l a last May, not this past May, the May before that, and I did a warehouse downtown and it was like the Britney

theme and everything and it was great. But like I was like, you know, everyone's gonna want a party to like six o'clock in the morning. It was it was done by three. Yeah, that's I mean, that's a whole other thing. It's like you're in you just go home? Really are you going to house parties in our which I personally hate going to someone's house. It always feels like the next like a last ditch destination. I like as are like a game night culture. Yea, he is

a place celebrities that you know nothing. I feel like from my sampling, it's just like let's play no bowe Yang has never been on a plane, boone Yang has only grown up in your He doesn't know any other culture. Absolutely, But Ellie is happening though, But like what, like are what can you drop? So next year? I mean obviously I'd planned it around November. I had a weekend, had a boat at everything going, and then I was like, no, this isn't gonna work, so now I have to like

start from scratch. Damn. It was gonna be for this November this next year. I was about to announce it, like like last week. I was going to announce it. I had it already, and then I was like, no, this isn't gonna work. Okay, if this is too painful, you can not answer. But what what was what was going to be key? Because it was gonna be it's Brittany boat l a W Yeah okay, And then honestly the bote of it all sunk. Itwhere we went to Brittany boat herebulous um. I missed Gaga vote, but I

was gagged, like thinking about what I was. Did you see a Quaries makeup for that? Yeah, she didn't. Aquaria at the Fendy show that was. I was like, and I was watching it with Dave and we were saying, like, and the thing about Aquaria she can have the steps. I was like, you know what, Like, not only does she look amazing, um like, and it is part of the diversity of the event, but it was like she

could fucking hit that. She's a performer. Yeah, I mean talk about like the most knockdown drag out, one of the most for me drag race wins. Like like you watch some of these seasons now when you're like talking about who should win, and you're like, funk, if a Query was in this season, it wouldn't even be a competition totally. I felt that about the last season for sure. A great winner, a great winner. And I was watching her on that show and I remember we saw you

after the Robin concert. Oh my god. Yeah, because I went with Withy to Robina. That was hilarious. That was a good show. That was That was like a religious experience for me, She's another one where if you play Robin you got him like this truly defining songs of our generation. I I don't know if you guys saw the Pitchfork list of songs was like three, Well, Dancing my Own was like yeah, in the top five it

was for me. The top one to three were three, four, five, I believe it was Dancing on my Own and Information was in there, and then one other thing I'm Forgetting was also up there, and I was like, that's a great call, but what was what was what was the number one for? It was all Right by Kendrick Right, Yeah, I mean it's a great song, it's a it's a great you can't argue with it. It's just for me. It was like if you I see Dancing on my Own at three, I'm like, that should be one. And

then and then Blonde was the number one album. Yeah, there you go. I thought that was over all the good list, but I was. I was on the podcast Keep It last week and we were talking about how for me, it's like it's always gonna go skew more made stream like anything Pitchwork is saying like, of course, I'm not listening to almost any music that men make, except they're really big. Carly stands, they stand Harley so hard to get it with her taste, taste, but they

hate Gaga. The only not one correct on the song list, the only Gaga on the album list was Fame Monster, and they were like two thousand nine. But it kind of informed the rest of the decade after that, So you can't I'm sorry, but you can't talk about the two thousand tents of music. I understand she was more popular in two thousand thousand nine, but you can't talk about the last decade and music without even mentioning Lady Gaga.

That doesn't make sense. That doesn't least Born this Way, something from Born this Way, or just throw something from our pop on there, just to just to get out of your own way, because our pop justice for our pop of course in terms of tracks, in terms of songs of the decade shallow. Why not just just think it's it's ignorant to ignore it ignorant. It's ignorant. You can't talk about the last ten years in culture and then get to two thousand and not mention the star

is born like, talk about it however you want. But it was a moment in culture. It was so last year we did a Gaga boat and that song came out like the day before the party happened, but everyone already knew all the lyrics. Yeah, yeah, of shallow, you have shallow. Yeah. So someone I played it and the whole place was like singing along and like some s Angela ever posted and the Bronson posted the video of the boat. I'm like, wow, this is so cool now.

That was like a moment like that was like one of those songs that for some reason, the melody of it just like it's in your brain. It was kind of like let It Go. I don't know if you ever watched like kids sing let It Go, but like I used to do children's some children's theater and to warm them up, they would play this song let It Go. And what would happen to the children. I can't describe it. It was like a trance came over them where they

were just like Letica. It's almost made you feel like what subliminal messages in this song to make them do this? But something about Shallow, Like when we even heard like the trailer or the show the trailer, and they were showing that it was going to be a song. We were like whatever that is and then it was. And then I do feel that that song had a life like let It Go did, where it was like just always in the culture. I mean it won the Moscars, Yes, I won the Oscars. It was a cinematic moment are

you gonna are you gonna do? Because Josh Sharp had pitched you a Beyonce boat? Is that is that? Is that going to be something in this next summer? Or no? It's so hard to like because the boat I can only do like three of them, right, It's like it's I'm like, who's going to be the top up three selling because like really, you know, it's frankly not cheap to rent a boat now, and like get all that going, you break you make, you make a profit off the boat.

So I make a profit off the boat. Yeah, mostly okay, but it's still like you know, who do you? Who do I pick? With Brittany and Gaga. It's it's smart because it's like you get, you know, the vibe and also everyone is a vocabulary for it. Yes, you know,

so those are knockouts always. And then this year it was like Madonna because I was like, yeah, I knew she was gonna be I knew she was going to be like the surprise performer, so there's gonna be hyper around and she's albumat I was like, let's do next year. I think I'm gonna do Spice Girls because like, it's been a while since I've done a Spice Girls party. This January will be two years since I've done a

Spice Girls party. And I was talking to Bobby Campbell, Gaga's manager, last he was like, he was watching Spice Holder, and I was like, oh my god, what an iconic movie. He's like, you need to do a gay flower Spicels. I was like, that's perfect because the boats only three hours and they only have two albums, so you know, it's hard to do like a fower forever a rature Okay, okay, right, I say goodbye five of them. If all five of them are not on it, it's not Canady, right, You're right, right.

I mean, I think Spice Gross Boat is a fucking hit, And I do think if there was one of the other girls that I could say you could build a boat around, it was obviously be Beyonce. I mean Beyonce, you get you know exactly what I would say Rihanna. Rihanna has so many like dance songs, like this thing with like Beyonce's music is like it's not all club ready,

It's right, you know, like some of it is. Most of it is, especially a lot of Destiny's Child, a lot of earlier stuff, but like her more recent stuff besides Formation, none of it really works in a short

in different worlds. Well, I was gonna say the thread for all the boats for the gate flower boats this past summer, where it was it was Chrona launched them, Donna, Brittany, Gaga in terms of like like pop star girl about and like successors to Madonna, even where Brittany was kind of like the princess, and then Gaga comes in as

like the joker. The gesture, I would say, if you wanted a threat and take a relieve it but definitely leave it is um, if you wanted to start with Spice Girls, you do girl groups where you do Spice Girls, Destiny's Child and you throw stuff and then the third Then the third one is like who I think it would be so fun to do like just like a girl group, but what you could fucking do is like obviously Spice girls, Little Mix, Fifth Harmony, you could cc

it was just gonna say Destiny's Child, honestly, Pussycat Dolls like you could, but I mean we can. We can talk about how it's mostly in the call. We stand in the cole in this house, Um, do you know this so poison? I got that poison? I don't think so. Oh my god, she's got so many bobs that were only I literally already pitched my manager like I want to get in a coal for pride, dude, the gaze

would there would be an army of boys. I had to explain to my manager who she is, and I was like, really, yeah, he's a game, but he's like a bad gay. I think the thing is like, even if you don't think you stand the culture singer, you do, and you would fucking the second she plays buttons, you're gonna be like on the floor. And also, don't you mean don't don't stick with you? Even I stand a ballad and stick with you every time? What's that song? Um?

It's funny how man only things about that Forever and always so good? It's actually a real culture number fourteen Forever and Always. I think a girl group bout yes I don't have to be the boat, but it has there's some container for girl groups. Okay, I mean maybe it could be Heaven on Earth concept there, but it's it is a good idea because honestly, and also just to revisit Spice World for a second, I said it on this podcast, but it is a communic tour to force.

Absolutely it is. It is a great film. It is a comedy period and it's got a great performance. I say snub for best Supporting Actress. It's Adams as Posh Spice in Spice World. What are your line reads again that you do? Um? It's this dress is dry clean only Melanie. It's very good. Shut up Jerry, because they're playing I spy on the hospital. I spy with my little eyes something that is blue hospital. Shut up Jerry.

Just so it's the timing, wow, the actors timing. So just you know, a great supporting cast includes coming and Elton John He makes a cameo. Elton makes a cameo. Okay, So speaking of this formative, we're talking Spice Girl. So that brings me a little bit back, which makes me want to ask the question bow and we got a little preview of it before we hit record. I mean, I just truly I know that there's a lot to say about this topic. So we're gonna ask bow ahead, bone,

take it ahead, Okay, take it away, Take it away. Hi, what is the culture that made you say culture is for me? This is the formative culture that moved your life into a cultural direction, something you latched onto it and imprinting early age Hansen. Okay, very good. I feel like that's what I know is gay too, honestly, yes,

explain this go. I mean I feel like when you're like young and queer and you don't know that you're queer, Like you're like you're like, oh, I want to be friends with them, but really like, oh, you have a crush on them, and you just don't have the words are Like even the concept of that you can have a crush on was a boiler, Yeah, of course, right? But was it that for me? The the imbut video was like a sexual awakening. Yeah, I don't know what it was. It was it was because it was and

this is why Hanson is queer. When they first broke out, it was like my first kind of taste of androgyny. I know that sounds crazy, but my Mom was like, oh, oh, those girls are really pretty. I was like, Mom, there's are boys and she was like, oh, I don't like that. And I was just like, but Mom, I was like, was it what was? She liked it until she found

out they were boys, like what's that about? It's yeah, it's so funny because the way my like culture, I guess on Long Island, like absorbed Hanson was it was like they look like girls and like that means that they must be bad. I remember, like inherently me as a kid watching Hanson and be like, I don't like this because I think I want I I really saw in my culture as boys as boys and girls as girls, and the fact that they had long hair like through me.

But I remember Bob is such a forgive me, but Bob that it was like this music is there's something to it, And now with their new iteration you realize it's because they've always been musicians. Those have been great pop songwriters and musicians. They whoever's on the drums slays the fucking drums. But I want to say that I'm Hanson. Hanson broke the binary and that's actually a rule of culture in handsOn broken the binary. Now because I didn't listen to their album though I have to be honest,

I only listen to him, I mean expert here. They have a Christmas album that I still listen to every single Christmas. They have a cover of Stevie Wonders. That's what Christmas means to me. That is my favorite Christmas song after Carrie. Of course, it's so good. And I didn't even know he was a cover of TV wonder until I was like looking in and looking into it and I was like, oh, that's how freaks you out.

But they are legit good musicians. I mean that. That's like I think that they sort of for for people that love them, and I remember some older people like some friends of my parents, like me too, because I think they threw back to like a family band type of which is very relatable to people. But also they were very appealing to a young crowd obviously because the melodies were super simple, like like you know what I mean, like almost Beatles ish or it's like it's just like

you can't help but sing along to this. And that's what I'm saying about their musicianship and now to see them as adult musicians that are still doing it and still creating good work. You're like, that's because they've just got it. What would it take to like really bring hands and back into the into the zeitgeist for let's just say, for queers, I would I would want them to like that have to be it have to be

a dance moment. I was gonna say, dance like all the girls can I just say for a mint, all the girls are putting out music and none of it is danceable, Like who are you trying to appeal to? But you know, was it just that we're like in an algorithm age where it's like truly it's it's these streams. It's all about like music that is streamable. Yeah, I think the girls are trying to um all say something right now. I think I think the girls are emotional

right now. I want escapism, like like pop escapism is my go to always period. So I think this is such a This is such an interesting thing because I am such like a ballad queen, and so the fact that music is in this place right now actually kind of excites me. Though I do love dance music. So when you were younger, let me ask you this, because I think this is a definitive question. Was it Brittany or Christina for you? Brittany, okay, and I'm a Christina guy.

That is it, it is. It is the yeah yeah, Brittany. And that was just because because why just it was the dance of it all it is and it still is. But even the ballot, even the Britney ballads were ballads and good ballads. So I don't I don't think that's like a fully you know, we've split. No, I do because it's like Christina was interested in a different kind of entertainment than Britney was, and they both did crossover.

You know, Brittany had her ballots, and we stand some of Britney's ballots sometimes is every time one of her only songs that she's credited with writing, I would actually also go moves to say, don't let me be the last to know. I would say shadow. I would say, honestly, it's a goofy song. But even later in her career Perfume, I do stand. She sounds a thousand years old on it, but I do stand. And Christina, I think obviously was giving you some up tempo moments like you know, and

she gave you pop star. But at the root of what they're really good at. Brittany was giving you something to this day is giving you beats, bobs, vibes like energy, and Christina's giving you story or you know what I mean. At the end of the day, I think that they're such different artists. It's so interesting to see them put together. But because they were together so long for us, I think in your heart, if you really ask yourself, which one am I like? Just so I'm a Brittany, I

think you're a Brittany. And I know that about you because I mean maybe One More Time was an album that like it was that and Spice World because I

didn't because my sister got Spice World first. And this is truly like birth order is so interesting for gay men will say, is that like if you have an older sister who like is able to like funnel you her stuff, that's your way in culturally, and so like the gang like would buy all these albums, and like I would just like should buy albums you would buy like sister of the Traveling Pants, and I would like take it from her and read and consume all this.

But anyway, with and by proxy, Gaga was huge for you, so I'm assuming Goga must have like fucking stomped your honestly, Honestly, I don't love Gaga. Initially, turn the turn was I saw her live, um like right before New Year's Eve in Florida, Like it was right before right after Faymonster come out. Famous had been out like one month, and I saw live and I was like, Wow, this is like really freaking good. And then and then Bad Romance the video came out, and I was like, oh, undeniable

that this is great. I feel like with Gaga it's like either just dance interest you or it didn't know didn't it didn't interest me because at that point in my life, I was very much like indie and like listening to like blog music, and like I was like pop music is to look down upon, blah blah blah. Like I was in a place I was like, you know, eighteen in the closet, first year of college, Yeah, mess

mess yeah. Um. For me, the moment that it clicked was Love Game video where she's fucking like dancing around the subway train and I'm just like oh and or just it was just the lyric like disco stick and it was her being like um um, You've indicated your interest. I'm educated in sects, yes, And I'm just like, that's what's the fucking craziest sequence of words and so funny and like who the fund is she? She's very cool. That was a love game. I think was a huge moment.

People don't talk people don't talk about love game. People talk about programs and just dance paparazzi. But from from from Fame era, it's like love game and he ain't nothing else I can say. I'm just like, wait, you guys gems over here and you do in your in your and we noticed when like when we go to your parties you do throw the I mean, the Fame for me is like such a solid album. I think it's it's it's it's just a great album. It's very

like Gwen Stefani. So I'm gonna be honest, like she was giving me a lot of Gwen on that album, and I love it like boys boys boys, some like yeah, she was she was giving you Gwen. When she first came out, the comparisons were Gwen and Christina, right, remember that when she whenever she because she was specifically doing

what Christina was hinting that with Bionic. I remember that was around the keeps getting better, keeps getting better, Like that music video came out, I think, and it was Gaga derivative, and there was this attitude which is like this new girl who just looks like Christy and Aguilera.

I remember that moment, and then I remember the reason Lady got from me started to get more credible was because specifically Perez Hilton was like standing her and really that was like you were propressed literally at the time. At the time, I was like on pres Hilton's website, and this is before he said his whole thing. I

think I'm actually gonna be nice now. This is when he was being a true county like and he was like calling celebrities like shit stains and for us to go Jennifer Aniston, Maniston, this is like Baale Wolf was his name for Beyonce, and he would only ever post pictures of her with her arm up like this, so her arm pit was showing. He was gross and very

internalized homophobic. I mean, he outed celebrities like Pat Patrick famously um and one can argue about whether that was like as quote unquote for the great good or not. But he was like a militant in being a dick, and to the fact that he liked Gaga was like a signal, like and for me it was like the fact that he liked Gaga, I was like, I mean, I know she's to be taken seriously now, but I don't trust this and so maybe that was part of it too. Oh that means you suspicious. It's a little bit.

But I also remember it being in the moment where I was like, Oh, we're gonna have to like see this person around and I didn't. I as a person who rejected Just Dance, I was like, I don't know, and he felt to the princess of pop, and I was like, after Just Dance, you're going to call her the princess of pop. And then a couple of songs later, I mean, Paparazzi is what got me. It was like,

it's pretty true. Yeah, I mean that the performance with the blood was like I should have been stand immediately, but I wasn't. Yeah. I was like, yeah, I wasn't until after Bad Romans for You, And honestly, Art Pop was the first time I started like really because because you know what I mean, it is like she had an underdoge narrative and then it was that's honestly what made me like is to watch her watch it kind of spin out of control a little bit, like the

image of it all. I was like, okay, cool, So this is like a relatability now that I that I need. Yeah, I don't know that. I'm talking as me, like a Kelly Clarkson stan who like needs vulnerability and relatability, like that was who I was. But remember when Roar and Applause came out the same day, Oh yeah it was. That was those tweets. Those tweets are so funny. Those tweets are very funny. But I would say Applause has

aged better. I was still like a very good catchy like I'm amazing, but I don't play roar out at the club. Actually a lot of Katie is dance floor ready, but it doesn't work. People don't stand Katie for some reason. What is the too corny? Like I don't know. I'll tell you the first time I've been excited by her in years over and I really love never really over.

I mean I think it's like if this is a sign of what's to come from her, and I'm like, well, thank fucking God, just please come back to making simple. So I'm like a closeted Katie stand like I love her in my private listening Birthday, I saw Birthday. Whenever I'm sad, I can just listen to Birthday, and I'm like, in a good minute, she remix that's really good. You know, she her Teenage Dream, which is an iconic you cannot deny. I think generation number one, five number one, so basically

it's Thriller level and Whitney Houston level. I mean, so basically a teenage Dream was like a hundred and one on that Pitchfork list, and I was saying with our own Lewis and keep it like this just goes to show like the people that are making this list consume music differently than me, because me, as a pop music person, that's in the top five for me, songs like that was defining. Okay, why isn't Out Magazine making like a real definitive like gay list, Thank you Out, get on it. Yeah,

let's let's just get like what it's. When we saw Robin that night at Barclays, when she performed Dancing on My Own, it was just so clear, place place, silent on, the lights on drama of that, I was like, I was like, we are one. Everyone knew that we were singing the defining song of our generation. Like I think you know, and you know how you know kind of I was gonna say, this kind of sucks, but like the reason you know it was the defining song of

the generation. Honestly, Girls at that time was the defining song of defining TV series of our generation. And then in that one episode when she's tweeting all adventurous women do in the iconic episode of Girls where she thinks she where she gets HPV and like, also she has the conversation with Andrew Rynolds. That episode was amazing, and then dancing on my own clothed it and her and Alison Williams danced together and they're embracing at the end

of the episode. I was like, this song is important, that that episode is important. Um, and there's a song Exploder episode where she talks about writing honey and another great song. I think it's I think that's her best song. I think that's her I know that sounds blasphemous, but like just on like a on a sensory level, like it's yeah, it's I still want to hear the version that they have and girls Girls, and I'm like, I'm like,

what happened to that version? They because they they played in a bit of it in the episode where it which is just pulled from the audio from the credits, but like it doesn't feel right. Actually I used to think the same thing where it's like it should have been dancing or it should have been what the girl's

credit sequence was. But um, you hear A talk about and she was like, I was in a really emotionally raw place, like my close collaborator here just passed away and he helped me set up the speed and like they were just like they called that like you know, because the beginning of Honey, I think is very distinct and recognizable and you can identify it where it's just like whoa, no, you're not gonna get which and so like she called that like the sauce, Like that production

was like the sauce, And that was like what blanketed you, Like it's a perfect rave like Molly song. I mean also it's a I will say this when you're on drugs, that that song does something to your body. It is literally specifically designed to be there for that moment and she opened the show with Honey or Missing You. She opened the show with no it was it was some deep cut off of the album Honey. It was like, I will say that, Um, I believe Missing You came first.

Missing came first. She that and that's that's that list order is only rob only Robin can do that, where she just she blew it out like a little bit over halfway to the concert and then the rest was just a party that she essentially you know what I mean, Like it was danced around. She was so cute. She was It was a concert that was made for poppers. Yes, it was just like you could bring or whatever, pick fight.

But you know, I was happy to see that. Like at least Pitchfork, like when they were making that list, they really respected Robin, Like Robin was all over that list and I was like, okay, cool, so you're at least hearing us and run Away with Me by Collie rage Epson was one gay at pitchforking like guys like we're not the gay delicate like to speak, and that's important. It's very important. And there's gonna be a musical list written.

There must be gays president in the world. Yes, Um, I'm really curious to time, and I've thought about this constantly, like where like what do you make of this is such a broad question too, but what do you make of nightlife now? In because I think they're like something very cool it's happening. I love nightlife and I've always been a nightlife fanboy and I think it's having such a beautiful moment right now. And when people say that like nightlife is dead or nightlife is over, I want

to smash my fucking head against wall. I'm like, especially like all these old people writing, you know, articles like oh, back in the day, it was this culture changes and the way we consume culture changes, and nightlife is a reflection of culture or it's like where culture begins, and so it's gonna change. It's not gonna be the same. We're not gonna have Studio fifty four. And that was a great moment. Okay, move on next thing. So I think it's having a great moment and I love night

life and I'm I'm just excited. Well and even like it's even bird of people to be like, well, it's not like how it used to be in these new kids don't have any respect for the for how things were. But it's like you're you're literally throwing a party at Webster Hall, like the first nightclub in the world, and like you're throwing a party there that is a tribute to the drag parties that would happen there a hundred years ago. And it's like you're working with Susanne, You're

working with Lady. It's like, right, is that is that accurate? I don't really work with either of them, but you guys, you guys are all so safe. I love them both so much, like I look up to everything they've done. You know, if if have you seen Susanne's documentary, I still haven't. Okay, you have to. It is I cried because you know, she has done so much for a community and just so much for the nightlife as um an economy. It is like she created this economy that

you know, people like me benefit from so much. So whenever Susanne, you know, text me like, hey, I need a favorite, I'm They're great. I'm there. That's great because I feel like, and this is what you're saying earlier. What this probably just has to do with why you like escapism in your music, is that your nightlife is just it's an escape, an escape that thing too about

like people being like it's not like it was. That's literally a voice that is always going to be there and the only thing we have anything, right, the only thing we have, I mean, you know more than anyone, Like with SNL of it all, it's like not what it was, like those like with any institution and nightlife is a New York institution, like there's going to be that not what it was vibe And the thing is all we have is at present, So like let's make sure that we're not those people in the future and

create a good vibe now because also those people saying it's not what it was, you're also not at the party, you know what I mean. So it's like you're also not currently out enjoying it to the party. But I also understand that I think it's just a thing of you know, even nowadays, like certain certain things that happen with like the generation like that's coming up, like certain choices that are made about culture, like the way they consume media now, like like certain things that have become

and vogue. I don't really get it, Like I'm still trying to find Billie Eilish, you know what I mean, like right, and so I am finding her in this, but I've it's taken me a minute, which is surprising to me because I feel like you love you just said ballances. I don't know what it is. I didn't know that was there because all I knew was bad Guy, and I heard Bad Guy and I was like, oh, if this is indicative of what she's about, then I'm not about it. Then I'll be honest with you. I

saw her perform on SNL that second song. I was like, there's a lot more depth here than I think I realized, which happens to me all the time with Lord had happened to me too. Well. You should listen to the album the whole way through and then the last track it's called Goodbye, and you know what I'm about to talk about. She just does this long it's not long, it's like two minutes, but she just like it's one melody and it's one like motif basically in terms of

the production. But she just in reverse order of the tracks on the album, pulls little snippets, little lyrics, little melodies, little lines, and weaves them all together and ends with and bad guys. The first technical track, the first one is hurt taking out her her in his line, but like the last line is her going I'm a bad guy.

It's it's it's genius. It's a geniusly constructed album. And I think if you like on the Plane, when you go back to late tonight, like listen to it the whole way through, download and save it offline, listen to it the whole way through and just pay attention, because I think it's a good plane album because it puts you to sleep if you want it. I am looking for those. It's a great album to put you to sleep too. But if you can stay with it for the for the twelve go where do we go? But

the last track is what made it all click for me. Literally, I mean it seems like too simple and deceptively like artful, but it is like she literally weaves one melodic thing out of the entire album. She's she's captivating everyone right now because like obviously, but like I'm talking about older people too. She was just I just started driving in a life, so I have a serious streaming like free subscription, so I listened to Howard Stern. She was on Howard Stern.

She did like an hour's long interview with Howard Stern and she kept up with them and it was it was equals talking. It was crazy. It was like she was so smart and her brother was there too that she like, I guess works with expl and it's very cool to watch how proud he is of her life and she's so young and so to listen to her just kind of be unfazed by talking to this like, you know, intimidating like Titan of media who owns so

much of that space. Like, and he's also so like aggressively adult for her to be like he can be like he has a history of being like predatory towards women, which is grea, which is why we love him. But it's like that's how he is. But she went in there and she was She had people calling in afterwards being like I like her, and it was just she's obviously got staying power. Honestly though, But this makes me think of Gaga whenever she goes on Howard Fantastic interviews.

Fantastic what I'm saying, Goga too. I mean that's I think that when they come up with their first singles, it's always like you always judge like are you and you know, so think about it. Like Gaga's first single was Just Dance and that was like, you know, it definitely was a hit. Like Katy Perry's first single was I Kissed a Girl Like I was. That was a huge hit and I was like, you're a one hit wonder. Yeah.

But it's like I mean, she was on the Van's Warp tours, like okay, that's where she literally came from her with like an asymmetrical haircut on the Warp tour bit. I'm curious. So this is I think we had the same sort of timeline in terms of coming out of the closet, in terms of in terms of sonically like accepting it. I think because I would be on all the fucking like said the gramophone or whatever, like indie websites and like downloading tracks and listening to Machine Machine.

I was gonna see high Machine Machine. I'm still still around. I still have MP threees that I downloaded from Hype Machines that I play out. Oh my god, because there was there were some real gems and like it was it was kind of like the algorithm was set up nice because they would just surface like the top tracks of the week or whatever, and they would be like

you couldn't download them on iTunes. They were like specific remixes, sometimes Hype Machine, and then like last I would scrabble on last FM all the time and make sure that like I was signaling that I was listening to Radiohead

and whatever all this um. But I feel like when I came out of the closet was around the same time that like I was living my sister in college and she was like shap burning me being in the closet because I had just gone through conversion through every my parents said you can go down my u as long as you live with your sister, because she will

like protect you, she will be our eyes and ears. Um. But then like Circus by Britney Spears came out and both of us were like because both of us listen to listen to Britney growing up, and we were like, oh my god, let's listen to Womanizer. And she was being like she was like, I guess my brother's gay, but this is nice and we're listening to the same

music and we're enjoying the same things. And so that like two nine was like the moment when when it shifted, but you're saying it was like maybe a year after year after that, I didn't like really come out until them Fatal if we're talking about Britain, if we're talking about if we're talking about Brittany, Like, yeah, and so what were your first Like so, I'm this is a weird question, but do you remember like the first artists albums, songs that you like truly like Fused into your Body

and yeah, go only Girl in the World Rihanna Great. When that came out, I was like, yeah, I'm gay. It's like that's like what it is, Like I love this music and you know, I'm accepting myself, Like I just transferred from a state school in Florida to purchase and I was like, I'm gay. I'm starting a new life in New York. Imay, Wow for me, that was dancing on my own that I know the moment you're talking about and Rihanna did have such a moment. There's so then like honestly, I was going to bring up

What's my Name? Like that's a song that I feel is a race today, Like that was a huge moment. Did that come out before Only Girl? It was the only girl in the World was the first single one that I believe. But then but then the Only Girl in the World became a number one after something like that. I remember. I think it was just that loud album like that's the red Hair, the Rihanna moment, Yes, and I'm raining man California King bad. But oh um the song um um cheers to that an Avril Levine sample.

Are you kidding me crazy? Um No? But then what's my name? What's my name? The song structure, the pre course is I think my favorite part of the song. She's table. I think if you can go down and don't want to go like an incredible melody. Wow, Okay,

does that question make sense? So like it does, like that moment when you were like, now I can celebrate the gainess within me a little bit by really liking y. Yeah, I mean that Only Go in the World is still my favorite Rena song for the reason and I played all the time. I mean I played it, yeah, Like it might not be everyone's go to Rihanna, but it's my go to Rihana. Also for the ballot queen and me,

like Stamp California came back. I mean, I can tell you are that queen that would look at me every time I was at a party putting on the ballot and like you gotta stop. Next she blew her damn voice on that. On the recording, it sounds it's it's like okay, like closings. You can her pray. She would never do that now. No, No, she went on high or she like sucking scrolls. Oh, I mean fully, you can hear her have a hemorrhage. Do you think we're getting music by then? She didn't, she say she was.

She keeps saying though, yeah, that's Rihanna. Rihanna will say ship whatever whatever she wants to say. You saw that video where she was like she's like she lied, she she knows. I mean, but I do that. I was reading that. I was getting the recent like I think it was a Vogue piece on her, really good piece on her, and she talked she gets really into politics. And the one that guy where the guy was like,

I didn't have questions for you, sorry, I'm not ready. Yes, that was well, what happened was she moved the interview up, I'm going to it and she was like whatever, cool it wasn't it wasn't like a super serious thing. And he did get a great interview out of her, so for what it's worth, But like she Um is really really candid, and she's just it's that thing of she's

kind of hinting at new music. But there's a moment where he asks and you and he says he details in the article about how she gets a moment in her eyes like why did you ask that? Because my fans are going to kill you now, Like now, it's it's bad that you asked that because now I'm going to like have to go on record and say something and then I'm going to get roasted if I don't follow up on that because the Navy is Um, it's the opposite of what Gaga is doing, which is basically

her tweeting back in March I'm pregnant. The specific words are rumors, rumors, I'm pregnant, question mark, Yeah, I'm pregnant, pregnant with elder hashtag LGI last week next who. I also think we're gonna I mean, they say we're going to get another album from her this year, which I thought she was taking a fifty year retirement. Um. And then Fiona, which I know is not like the same level of like stand um I couldn't. I have no vocabulary for you have to balance. You don't know, Fiona Apple,

you know what I don't know. I'm a series of contradictions. I will say because because it's the fall, because I'm experienced before. Right now, I am listening to a lot of Adele because I'll always think of her synonymous with leaves everywhere, the Sepia tone, big coat of it all, for sure, a big, big, big sad. Do you remember seeing her on VH one when she had like chasing Payments a song? I stam, did she have a behind to like like um amy, She was very much doing

I think like I'm from England. Yes, she had like a hair bump and she had the bang and she was at the time, I remember she was a lot heavier. So I think that's why they were leaning into sort of like more matronly look, because she was a lot heavier. And you know something that I'm actually happy people don't talk about because I'm happy we're not putting the emphasis on this. But she has definitely her aesthetic has changed. She is now it's certainly a glow up. Absolutely she

has transformed. And now I look at her and I'm like, no, it's so funny because we got to know her for her incredible voice and like the way she articulates music, but she's studying. She is a gorgeous like presence. To look at us, you have to get into Fiona. You should start with either wheel and then do criminal or then do title. Sorry, I mean I have a vocabulary

for criminal, you know what. My One of my favorite stories of the past few months is j LO calling up Fiona Apple and being like, can we use criminal in the movie Hustlers and Fiona being like, yeah, she had never licensed it before for anything, like they were saying, Jlo had an idea onset. She was like, it would be fun if this beginning song where I stripped I did it too criminal And they were like, we feel like why I ask Fiona is like famously difficult, etcetera.

She called and Fiona was like, yeah, for sure, And it's not that fionas difficult. She just did a really good interview in Vulture where everyone's like where the interview was like, so what do you make of people saying that, like you have this reputation for being so distant and like aloof and sequestered, and she's just like no, I just She's like, yes, I never leave my house, but like, I don't have a relationship with my managers where they tell me what people are asking, like they just like

stockade me in every single way. And she's like, I'm happy to give my songs to people. I just like normally don't like to be mired in that. And but when j Lo calls, you pick up. Yeah. So anyway, Um, Hustler is so good. A second, my feeling about Hustlers is it actually for me. Um, there was a lot of hype and it actually it's the same. Gay Twitter was like freaking out about it and I was like, oh odd and I hate it. But then what you

liked it? I loved it. I loved it. I always tend to um any movie with gimme more so, and especially because the way this is my song, SAME's I mean? And just it's shocking how fun it was to watch. You forget that movies can be like that. And then I'll tell you what's so frustrating is you read all the articles about it and you find out it was hard to get made. It's like, I'm sorry, but what about this? When this movie was getting marketed I was like,

this to me is the biggest slam dunk ever. Like you have j Lo, you have Cardi b you I needed more Cardi. It was a cameo. She needed a full role. I mean, she knows how to act. She absolutely I mean was she really acting? No? And that's the thing is she absolutely knows how to deliver star quality. No. But when she was getting in the argument with that man and at the bar, do you know what I'm talking about? Sure? I was like, Okay, she's like acting

reacting well, she was certainly having emotions on camera. We can say that, yeah, and it pops and you're like, Okay, I want more. I don't care, Like I don't care what her fucking I don't. I don't care Like how she gets to this headspace of acting in front of a camera. She's good at it. She was really good in this scene with all the girls back, like when she was like taunting everyone, I was like, this is obviously someone who's lived this experience and she's bringing it

to the screen. Yes. And also, let's just say, for your consideration, Lopez, give it up. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, give it up because guess what, Like I believe that there's not many people on this planet that could have given you the star quality that that character needed to have. That she is, to put it in these words, doing what the other girls won't do and I can't do,

and showing what the other girls. You're right, and you needed to believe that that character was going to like had to gravitational poll effortlessly manipulate everyone and also be able to physically pull that off and look like that. Oh god, the woman is fifty years old. She and I get that she's in a financial position. Of course, I'm not saying like people should at fifty. She's in a financial position to be able to make herself look that way. And she cares about that obviously and has

the space in time. But give it up because not for nothing, but she's had decades long career and she makes a ton of money for the industry. And if the OSCARS is about, like let's celebrate good performances and also like you know, pat itself on the back, like sorry, but get your nose out of your out of the air, and like understand that, like that's someone who makes a town of money for the industry, and like, don't spit

in her face. On Oscar Morning on the on the morning on the morning, because she needs a nomination, and then I feel like everyone will be happy. No one's saying she's gonna win, right right? Um, how could you say that? I think you should be Jolo for Pride h probably impossible. J Loo Bow would be good to Jlo does have bobs. Yeah, and that's why the super Bowl doesn't shock me at all. Yeah. Oh, Shakira too, we love that's all excited. And it's in Miami too.

I think which about Florida more because this is basically a Florida boy. So were you central? Were you part of Florida? So I grew up in Hollywood, Florida, which is like right north of Miami, And then I did two years in Orlando at UCF. And what was Orlando like for you? Because we're Orlando queens as you know. I love Orlando, but I hated my time in UCF. I was like deep in the closet. I was like working at urban outfitters the dream back then, and that

was the goal. That was all you want to do is work at urban outfitters and like be included in like that cool club. Um. I was going to like indie bars and like getting really into like New Order and stuff, because like that's what Eyebar Eye bar in back Booth, and I was like so into that culture. And then I just that's how I got into like dance music and everything was just like going out to

these places and hearing it. And because you can go to clubs in Orland, so I was going every single weekend. So this to me is like to be closet in Orlando at that time must have been kind of brutal because I would almost compare it to New York because I was closet here for a year. Like Orland, it was a pretty gay city. Oh yeah, Like every time I go down there, I'm always struck by how gay the culture is. Like, um, I remember I was down

there one time for my sister's graduation. I was at UM University of South Florida UM Tampa, Tampa, like close to St. Pete, and I went on Grinder and it was absolutely happening. Yeah, like it was. It was popping off, and I was just like, so that must have been like a kind of tough place to be closetive. Well I wasn't even at that point. I hadn't even accepted I was gay, Like I didn't check grinder. I didn't

like think of going to gay bars or anything. And like at the time, my roommate was like, do you want to go to a gay bar? Like obviously gay? And I didn't even always gay. You know, she was trying it. She was yeah yeah, but then like what was it? And like finally you just left because you're

just like I'm done, ready, Okay. So the summer in between my freshman and sophomore year, I came up to New York because I took an improv intensive at the magnet Y. We tie as a as a short as not a short form queen, but you're an improv queen's yeah yeah, can you see Ever? So I signed up for one and one recently because because like you see the like so intimidating. I like, like I don't know.

I was like a theater kid in high school, so like I've always loved improv and I came to New York and I was like, I was like I need to just go do something like get out of you get out of Florida for a bit. And I came to an intensive and like level through was topped by Armando Diaz. It was like really wow. So I was there for my birthday. On my birthday, it was my

nineteenth birthday. Armando was going around just like telling stories of like Tina fe and like you know, Chicago back in the day, and I was like, I was like, oh my god, this is so cool. I was like, okay, I have to get to New York. So I figured out how to get to New York. I came to purchase and then I didn't follow up on improv. I became a DJ. That's but that's so funny. I know. But I'm saying, and this is disgusting, pitch and please

shoot it down. But I feel like there's there's some capacity. There's room for like a Thai Sunderland functioned, not yes, some comedy event with TI like want to That's that's what I want to do. Is like imagine if I got back into like the improv scene, just like had like fun shows where it's like, you know, I have a Mandalapoort, come and do it like a like a

monologue like monologists asking to be created. Right this thing like like the world of music and the world of dance, in the world of comedy that that's that there's a moment there because you create an amazing live event out of all all of those things and ship there's like there's like a comedy standard, but it's it's not quite structured like that. But I'm saying, like not even it's not even a festival, but it's kind of close to

what I'm imagining. I want. I want If if I can help make it happen, that'd be great, But like I want something where it's just like gathering of queer people and there's music, dance, comedy, some kind of thing where people can just like, yeah, I feel included and not have to and just like choose how they want to engage with with what they want to do. I have a question about Orlando. So when you're there, this is just just a question for me. The social center

are there? Is it like actually the theme parks or no way, no way, no way, okay, because literally when I was on a grinder and this is this is why I asked the question. When I was on grinder, every gay guy on Grinder, if you click on their like info, like what they like to do, it's all pictures of them at the theme parks and it's because there's so many Disney gays to be near the part of my there's a part of my personality which is that,

and so we've resisted it so far. But like when I was down there, I was like, God, like, this is like something that like in a in a like upside down stranger things universe, Like I am this like Disney gay. Who's like and on my Saturdays I go to Epcot and I drink around the world. There's definitely those gays, which I love them and I say hello to them. But you're literally opening up grinder like at

fucking Pork Caribbean or Port. It wasn't but I guess, I guess, you know it might be right the property, you idiot, you're not out in the city, stupid. It is the dumbest question I've ever Honestly, they're big parks, so I didn't know. Like also, it's like a lot of people work there. Well, no one really lives around there. It's all hotels like like like kiss or you live, Like no one lives in the Cinderella Castle. I'm an idiot, shocker. For a price, it's a hotel. Now see it's like

the Cinderella Say, would you want to stay there. I don't know that I stay in the castle. I think it is nice to stay in a castle in theory you, but it's also like a theme park that's like, I don't know, thousands of people around you. Also, the Disney wedding of it all is truly scary, you guys, Like how much people will pay to get married in Disneyland. I'm like, this is what I'm sort of embarrassed to be like out here, like, oh, well, I'm a Disney gay.

It's because like the way that that can be taken is like so far. Okay, Okay, I've always wanted to do Gay Days though, Yeah, I mean I wish it's kind of les Yeah, let's go. I went. I heard it's a moment. So Michael Hartney and I went to Jeans Ago. We just happened to be there for some improv everywhere thing and we were in our Lando and then we were just like we had a day. We went to Pandora had just opened up. We went to Animal Kingdom. It was in the middle of Gay Days.

All it is, you guys, you were matching T shirts and you travel in a group together, and that's it. Maybe you're on drugs. Literally not big yah, and like you might like make eye contact super intense at one point, but that's like every gay spaces. But I had a manager at my restaurant a long time ago tell me, oh, yeah, you gotta go down to get doesn't it gets because everyone's just having sex everywhere. I was like, that's not it can't be. She's like, yeah, everyone's having sex over

the over there, It's everywhere. And there was a woman telling me this, and I was like, how did you know. She's like, I got lots of friends that went. I was like, I don't think they were telling you the truth. You can't have sex in Disney, even if it's like a day designated for gays. You can't just be fucking.

And it's not even essentially, it's not like all of a sudden become a funk fest because like you open it up to mostly gay, it's like there's still kids there, it's still closes at tam Oh my god, oh my god, we should do gay Yeah, I would love. And also I am a season pass holder and oh of course you are a sp a week two weeks. I've been there for like three weeks and I already have a season past. I can replace that. I have been. Luckily, now I'm dating someone that also identifies us as a

Disney not as a fall blown Disney guy. He would be furious if I said that about him. But you're you're proselytizing, You're gonna make it sure. I think it's time. I think it's time. I think it's typer. I don't think so, honey, honey. This is the segment of the show we take one minute to rail again something in culture. It's the culture that we're saying, you know what, not this, not this? Please um and I have something, I have something to I should I go first, because let's go first.

Let's let's have you go first. That's what That's what I meant. This is Matt Rodgers. I don't think so many as time starts now, I don't think so, honey, what Spotify thinks. So sometimes I'll be listening to a certain song and then Spotify will start thinking for itself

and suggest something to come after. On my way over here, I was listening to Jesse j Thunder because I do forgotten Bob and I recently spoke about how it was a forgotten Bob and then the following song that came after that, and I don't think so high what I ever want to hear this? But was literally a sound effect of thunder for three minutes, and I thought to myself, what about this? I think Spotify was so fucking dumb.

Spotify use its dumb branching thunder by just the day he's gonna want to hear the literal sounds of thunder. I don't know why it's on Spotify it is. I don't think they Spotify, if you're so smart, like and you know the playlists I want, like listening to kind of song I'm listening to, and then serve me that if I wasn't jested today, then give me I don't know, like Kylie Minogue or something or something of that ilk. I feel that Spotify is to take too much of

an active role in my life. I don't think so honey, I can make my own choice. And that's one minute. Can I offer something. I think what happened was it was not an algorithm like discover weekly playlists. I think you searched in the search bar thunder, And can I tell you something? This is what happened? What happened? And and it was it just made it and in the order can confirm. Okay, So it was more me being an idiot. Actually, Spotify is really good at creating playlists

crafted to your mood. So seasonal playlist on Spotify. If you want to hear the recent chart toppers, listen to our tar Toppers playlist on Spotify. And also country hits. I do listen to the country here. That's my Spotify voice. That's really good. That's really good. Whatever, that's the same whiteo voice that's on like Wendy Williams. That's like after this RuPaul spills the t on everything that's gagging and slaying not not not Wendy. That would be like Kelly,

Kelly Ripper. After this, Janet Mock slays us with her knowledge what's going to happen when Susanne barsh comes in to stop our next Kelly? Can you imagine that would actually just come in and god dang face off, slay mothers, continue to slay. I'm Deborah that woman also on E it's always like, well, Kim Kardashian turned it out on the gig. It's really bad. Okay, So bone Yang are

you ready? I'm ready? This is think so honey, as time starts now, I don't think so, honey, Marquis is a a safety hazard to have someone take out a ladder and a bunch of transparent letters and have to walk and go all the way up there and change it to you know, some stupid thing like Casey Musgraves at the at the beacon. No, you're putting a person's life in danger by doing that. Secondly, there are screens now.

Ever heard of l C D, honey, L l C D right, L E D S. Look, there are screens now, and you can put pictures on those screens, and you can make so many fun things on screen scenes. The diodes can shine all kinds of light and make a picture and it shines and it glows in the dark, and you don't have to fucking put fluorescence behind the thing. And you know what, Marquis, you remind us of what show biz used to be like. And may I remind you back in the day, rape would happen. It still

happens now, but back then it was more prevalent. In boards would not speak up about it to markets. Are reminder of how dark Hollywood, the underbelly of Hollywood used to be. That's one minute. And I love that you entered on rape. Okay, I will say about Markey's. But I saw my name on the market Webster. I was freaking out. I saw that. I was really nervous. No, I mean you earned it, you earned it well, thank you. You know it's it's scary. It's like sold out thy

Sunderland Webster Hall, what's amazing. That's what makes me nervous, the words, because once you know that someone is paid, yeah, it's like not just someone being like, sure, I'll go to this. It's someone who said to themselves, I'm going to spend money on the event. And that's when you

don't want these people to be unhappy. Well, when I'm whenever I'm coming with an event and I'm like we're trying to figure out prices to make everything, you know, pay everybody and have everything work, I'm like, God, would I paid this amount of money to go to this? That's what it's worth, every dollar, it's worth every fact. But all every time I have that conversation with myself all the time. You know, some circuit parties are like hundred dollar tickets, a hundred fifty tickets for like a

random Saturday night. I'm like, no, no, we're charging twenty dollar tickets to like a comedy show. And I'm like, no way. Yeah, Like I'm from the UCTV school of like, isn't it supposed to be isn't it supposedly five dollars to see ninety minutes of improv like tickets. I'm like, there's got to be a mistake. We can tell everybody, Um, no matter your means, going to a t und event is always worthwhile, I mean truly, like we like we

hype it up. Like among our among our group chats were always like, oh god, we gotta go to tye thing and then we're going to buy an outfit. We're going to do this and that, and that means here, Yeah, I don't know anyone that's not excited when you have something. And here's I'm excited for what he has in this regard, which is that on things. So, honey, yes, this is ready. I'm very excited. This is silly, but we love this ty Sunderlan. I don't think so, honey. As time starts now,

I don't think so honey. Health foods covered in plastics, Like like, I'm just trying to enjoy a salad. Now I have all this plastic, got like what do I do? If they do I have to go home and wash it out? And then recycling, recycling is so complicated to like what are we even doing with this? Why? Why is there no one system where it's like, oh, everyone knows how to do it. They're teaching us the fucking like pythagorant theory, but we don't know how to recycle.

What is going on in these fucking schools. I just want to enjoy my salad, enjoy my fresh cut fruit without feeling like, oh my god, I'm like polluting. Yeah, you know, I can already I get fries in like a fucking paper carton. Why can't I get a salad in a paper like? Yeah? Like what is going on? I just want some health food. I'm gay I need a salad and plastic and it's it's plastic. It's the

worst too. And can I say I'm also delivery. We got to come up with a better way to deliver food, Like it's always coming in plastic and I'm just always like I'm the fucking worst. Anyway, I'm gonna eat this sushi. Wow, Okay, So you know what honestly, the hip the hypocrisy has been attacked here today and I'm I'm very appreciative of it. I wish it was music related, Like we talked so much about music. I should have done a music honestly

much about it. I constantly am confronting, especially now with so much talk about the climate as we need to have in l A. Where it's like you're so much more acutely aware of like how dangerous sh is because of forest fires, forest fires literally every fifteen minutes, and

the air pollution is truly bad. Like I'm always thinking to myself, like and it seems like you never get a single straw in l A. Like l A seems to be aware of it in a way that maybe New York is coming, But it's like I constantly am thinking, like what are we doing to harm the environment? Which is good, but it's also like me not getting a bag is not saving the fucking world, you know, Like we need large systemic change if we're actually gonna be like it's not some bootstrap sort of thing like oh

got to get the climate change fixed. You know. It's what Liz Warren said one time. She was like she was like you like, not buying straws is not the problem. It's the fucking people at the top. We're creating everybody because it's like you know your ear exactly right. It needs to start in big, big, big ways, which is why I'm so propelled by like this idea that like we need a centrist to bring us together. No, we

need like incredible sdemic mandated change literally right now. And I would even go as far as to say, and I think what Liz Warren was talking about, which she was like, they want you to be talking about sucking straws. They want you to be like, yeah, concerned. It's it's it's such a distraction. It's like they want you to feel like you're making some change that actually has has a negligible effect on all of us. So anyway, Wow, we're so woke. How much is she killing it right now?

Oh she's love her, love her. I mean, y'all. Sketch last night was so good. That was a seedy green Frian glaspeed joints. It really was great. I thought that was such an amazing moment. It truly was. It did feel like a real those little moments like having Billy Porter there, it was like a real it was a real reach out to the like, Hi, there's people here that are like writing, yes, that are involved in your community. Yes, yes, um, but yeah, I um. I'm trying my best to make

small changes both. Look, if Jane Fani can get arrested with her granddaughter, with her granddaughter, she moved her asked to d C to be in the middle of the she said she's gonna stay there until fucking after Christmas. No, I'm saying that's pretty huge. Gret is inspiring me so much. I'm moving to d C. I'm staying here to whatever. Jane. That's a little good Jane, it's a it's a little bit of share. And her teeth are hitting her tongue

in the wrong way. But like I said, I said to Frankie Grand Franking Boots, So I said to Boone before I last night, I fell down an Ann Curry wormhole, and I eventually hit like when there was no more Am Curry content, I finally hit like Megan Kelly and I was just like, fuck her. But I did watch her interview with Jane, and Jane's amazing in it, and she asked Jane Fonda, like, what about your plastic surgery. What about that? We're going to talk about that? You

want to talk about this? And then there was like I started a whole few between them and I'm like, Jane fund Is Rule of Culture number seventy seven, Jane Fonda Is, period is is the verbs and there's no object, and you know who else is tyson Um. We were really looking forward to that, and we're talking so excited

looking forward to this. We've been like you truly created all the best nights of our summer, and I mean it was like it was like a very it was a big summer for us, and we like, definitely it's still all your party's managed to be the highlight, such an incredible that they were like ten poles for us. I think because it was it was crazy summer for us, a lot of changes happening, Matt was sort of planning out his his l a move, a lot of stuff

was going on. We were just like, okay, you know what, let's just like it was a fun summer and yours you were an incredible, huge part of that. And I'm sure that every old queer out there is kind of just like absolutely feeling the same way. We're very excited to see I always hear it's so thank you. Um, you'll hear it for a very long time from us, I'm sure. Um, And please go check out ties events, Um Love Prison, have it on Earth, Devil's Playground and Eve.

Yes ready, it'll be announced in a couple of weeks. So New Year's Eve. I have a venue confirmed with a twenty four hour liquor license, so it is going to be from nine pm until noon the next day selling liquor the entire time, all fifteen hours. And the theme is y two k Rave so it is. It is me and my daughter Lennox producing it, and it's going to be starting as like a nineties party like it, but then at midnight the world ends and it becomes a trans rave. Wow. We love that. Is there a

date when tickets go on sale for that? Um middle of November? Cool? So right? Okay, So are you going to be in New York of Halloween? Yes? I would be New York call of Halloween. I'm not doing anything major. I'm doing something with Angela and Banjie on Halloween proper and then I'll be doing a party after. But I love that. Wow. Wow. The Man, the Man, the Man, the myth the lahnd um we are every episode with

the song we sure do. So whatever you and I trying to add natural, have you been backing la me? Do we know the song? Let's go, Let's let's go to the end because the end of the chorus. I'll never tell them you're not so what we're doing right now, Britney. But the actual that what I was trying to get to was I put on put on my poll and I thought you wanted to go all the way to the end, and here you were tricking me up. Go ahead take it. So it's a bad song. It's a

terrible song. Look gonna go by. This has been a Forever Dog production executive produced by Brett Bahum, Joe Silio, and Alex Ramsey. For more original podcasts, please visit Forever Dog Podcasts dot com and subscribe to our shows on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Keep up with the latest Forever Dog news by following us on Twitter and Instagram at Forever Dog Team, and liking our page on Facebook.