"Fire Is Family" (w/ Parvati Shallow)

I've just been so excited because this is a moment. Well, first of all, we should both say that we're both on her free seven day yes, and very much enjoying it. In fact, I recently I was talking to a friend the other day and they were having an issue and I specifically used us from our guests UM exercises. That was very helpful. And she's told me that it was

very helpful for her. And we'll get into it because I am genuinely, like very inspired and like feel moved in the right direction by seeking out this person's content outside of what she is best known for. Now, here's actually the deal. If you don't watch Survivor, you may not be aware of our guests. But if you do watch Survivor, this is a legendary moment. For this podcast and beyond. Yeah, yeah, it's it's a it's a big deal.

And again she was asking us if we not not I wouldn't say fair weather viewers, but she was asking us to we watched every season and we had to sort of level with her and be like, well, really, Quarantine has accelerated us on the syllabus that is her seasons of Survivor first and foremost as like the as like the Nucleus, and then we just sort of branch out into other ones and then you know, it's it's it's the honest truth. But it's impacted us in such

a way. In that moment, we had to level with her. We had to say, look, have we watched every season every year? No? But has Quarantine pushed me into so far into the fandom that it is a concern for those around me, including my loved one Jared Freeder and

my boyfriend. He said to me he came over the house about two weeks ago and we were watching I think Cagayan the incredible season and we finished the season and I would like, wow, that was amazing, and he was like, I don't think I can watch another episode like we've watched like ten, fifteen thousand in a row, and I said, Okay, well then I don't think it's too late for you to go home. And he had to go at that point because it's it's been so

what's Kip kept me together during this quarantine? I think everyone has these has little things like maybe people are doing creative, creative outlets. I find that I'm so busy outside of quarantine that I'm using this as a I found Survivor and it was so like my north Star and I forgot what an incredible television show. It was on every level. And I pointed out to you, and your journey has been one I've been very excited to watch. Yes, yes,

all of it has revolved around our guests. Why should say and um, you know we we kind of mourned that the journeys sort of at its end. We should say it's it's it's been resolved for her, but it's it's what we'll talk about it. Well, it's truly there are moments that are Shakespearean you and I have talked about. In every season, there's a least one scene that's like how was that not a written dialogue? But there's I

think my favorite let's just bring her into this. We gotta bring her in and I'm I have the credits, and then we will talk all things with our guests. So, like I said, widely considered to be one of the best Survivor contestants of all time. After placing six on soever Cook Islands, she returned to disoever Micronesia fans for US favorites and won the title of Soul Survivor, and in the process of doing so, made iconic moves that

are talked about to this day. Then, a couple of seasons later, came back with probably the biggest target on her back anyone's ever had, and still managed to come in second. Arguably, we can argue that she should have won that season. I am in that count. I'm sure she is as well, but I'm sure she's made peace with it. I hope that she has will discuss it. And then she just competed in the recent iconique season

Winners at War, the Survivor's forty ye season. Outside of that, she's an internationally renowned yoga teacher, life coach, motivational speaker, incredible human overall that we are so thrilled to have and host and um author of a children's book on the honor. You can get Articulation books dot com, which mine is on the way. I actually bought the limited edition signed version. I'm gonna buy the sign version for

Ali for my niece. Yes, and I'm giving it to Raymond Jared's nephew after I read it, of course, because I feel and I really want to talk about the book, because I heard about the genesis of the book and I really want to dig into that and so much else and so much else. So everyone, please welcome into your ears party. Hello. Oh my god, guys, I'm so excited to talk to you. I feel like I just

won an Academy Award by that introduction. Honestly, you are a bigger start to me than Julia Roberts yourself, and I feel that you are the Julia Roberts of Survivor in many ways. You know, we're both from Georgia. So that's so you where from Where in Georgia are you from? I grew up in Marietta, Georgia, Marianna. That's far from that's nuts north Atlanta. No, yeah, it's like thirty minutes north of Atlanta. Okay, got it, got it? So my

sisters in Dunwoody. So I'm gonna send her on the honor in Dunwoodie and it's gonna it's gonna be a full circle thing. Oh my god, what a great gift. I'd like to go and just knock on her door and read the story to her personal Honestly, I think the young would be moved by that. By that one. I'm like, I love the idea of the book. Can you talk a little bit about the book and like also about what was the idea for? How how how

it came to be? Okay, So it's kind of funny because I had to leave my ten month old baby, yeah, little girl, to go back and play Survivor season forty, which was the Winners at War, which, as you mentioned, was an iconic season. All twenty of the greatest winners of all time come together to battle it out. So I'm like, the bomo is so real. If I don't go back, you can regret this for my whole life. So I go back and voted out promptly at a swap that did not go well for me but had

nothing to do with you. Could it have been worse? It was so bad. It could have been worse. But we could talk about this, but we feel the deck was stacked against you and also the old school players, but just in terms of numbers and in terms of the personalities, like the Wendle of it all. It just sort of like irks me still to all the wind of it all truly bothers us because I also thought Michelle could have been thrown a vote and Wendell that

was where you were supposed to come in exactly. Yeah, if he was really there for his girl ride or die, let's talk about that. Any who. I was voted off and then I had to go thrive on the edge of extinction, which is just it was like a zombie paradise really, like Tyson was walking dead. Danny is just shriveling away. So everyone it is we really had She looked like she had a hard time. Yeah. Yeah, it

didn't go well for Danny either. Ethan, my dearest darling friend, Ethan, who survived cancer twice, is sitting down next to me saying this is worse than cancer. No, you know, Oh my god, but did you guys get at least one dame in Ponderosea, Like what was the deal there? Yeah? I mean once the game is over, then I think it's stay thirty six. Then they put us all in a speed boat and we speed over to ponder Oas

and eat our faces off and drinking. But before that, you're on the edge and like how bad is it? Because I feel like we see like we get cut two's of like you living like sort of like a very bad life there. But I don't think they get into like just how bad it is. It's like demoralizing already to get voted off, so you feel like if you it depends on how you were voted off. So my vote off wasn't a total blindside. I saw it coming, so it wasn't that big of an in the phase.

But it depends. So you give voted off, you already feel bad about yourself, and then you're on this island

of other rejects who it's like loser island. You're in pravatory and the food situation is so bleak where we would have to walk over like slippery rocks where the tide would come up and climb up a mountain like a mountain of staircases and then all the way up to the highest peak and then you'd get this tiny portion of rice, and then you have to bring it all the way back down over the slippery rocks, and then you have to build a fire, so you have

to gather your firewood, you have to do everything that's required to start your fire, and then you cook the rice. By time you cook it, you're like fully emaciated, all right, like you've already burned off all the calories you're going to get from that little handful of rice. And sometimes the tide would be up too high, so a production would be like you can't go right now to go get your rice. Sorry, So your l in terms of food, you just do not get it. Yeah, which is why

peanut butter factored in such a huge way this season. Yeah, it was hugely popular peanut butter on the edge. It seems to be the dish of Joanana from the gods, Like peanut butter is a huge success here on the edge. I mean, you guys have no idea. And it looked just chunky. It was a chunky as peanut butter. It was so it was like Costco's like you want you bought a peanut butter jar bigger than your head, and

it was like heaven. It's like heaven on Earth because there's nothing to do there, and so the peanut butter situation became an extra layer of the game. Yeah, it was reward basically. Oh, there was no reward challenges. There's a challenges on Edge of Extinction. There's nothing. You're just it's like quarantine, but you're also starving. Yeah, wow, thank you for putting into perspective. That was another thing. Well, and so you're there and Ethan is saying he's miserable.

He's like like feels like he's like truly like going through it all over again, and it's like messing with him. Yes, So I sit down and I talked to Ethan and I'm like I'm there with my buddy, and I'm just like, are you going to to pull the flag? Are you out of here? And he's like, I can't do it. I can't Like what would my community think, Like, I can't be a quitter. And I was like, all right, we're gonna get your mind right, we're gonna keep you positive.

Invit him to do yoga with me when meditating every day, just to have a momentary reprieve from the desolation of our present situation. And it was super helpful. So when I got home, I wanted to offer a gift to my daughter for having been gone for over a month

and a half. And so I sat down and I write this story ohm the Otter, and it's really inspired by my time with Ethan on the Edge of Extinction, where it's like I'm basically embodying on the Otter, where he's just this adorable, playful, fun little you know, not to like say all these great things about myself, but I love almost like hot, almost like really like looking started running down the beach like almost an icon, almost

almost a cultural icon, wearing his high top sneakers, crystal necklace, and he's like, let me show you what's up. So he runs down and he sees his buddy Davo, who's a dingo from down Unda, and that's Ethan, and dab was looking sad, and om just pulls up next to dav and he was like, here, I'm gonna share with you. I'm gonna be with you, may be present with you, I'm gonna breathe with you. We're gonna have a moment where you can start to let go of this you know,

sadness or whatever you're feeling. And start to become present with your own heart and start to let your mind lift. And there's breathing techniques through the book. So it was just it was fun to kind of work through that whole like edge experience with Om and Davu and then also bring it back for my daughter because she's outrageous. She's almost two years old, and she does not stop moving. She's challenge, She's training for a challenge constantly. I'm looking

for a venture like her mom. Yeah, definitely, I have my work cut out for me with her. So we sit together and she'll do the breathing techniques in the book. That's great, and I'm like, oh, this is really rad. So I just want every other parent and family to

have this experience with their kids. What I love the most, And I thought about it like this morning as I woke up, I was like, oh, I love the the language around home, helping a friend with difficult feelings, not like good or bad, not bad feelings or not feelings that are qualified by like shame or anything, but just like feelings that are just hard, like you have to sort of sort through and um label and figure out and and then But that's that just generalizes in a

way where it's like you can, you can just do these exercises no matter what you're feeling, and hopefully it gives you some reprieve. Yeah, And I wanted to make it really clear that it's not the kid's responsibility to make it better for the other person, right, So the

home isn't trying to make it better for Dabho. He's simply sitting with him and being with him as Dabo has this hard, difficult emotional experience, and then offers him this golden egg, which is basically like a like a magical kind of of trink it where Dad can hold it and start to become more and more present with his own breath and his own sensations in his body, so he can start to let go of those difficult feelings himself. But it's not the kid's responsibility to me, right,

And that's actually really important. And I also love that it just really stresses this the power of being a good friend and being there physically or emotionally with that person. And I just that really resonated with me when I read what it was about, because I remember that I had like a tough moment a few years ago where I had like an anxiety attack after getting off a plane. And I was with a friend and I'll just never forget.

We weren't like super close friends, but she just sat with me and breathed with me, and I'll never forget that experience of like someone just being there for me. And so I love that the book is going to instill that in really young kids because it's that that is a such a formative time. So just that compassion being instilled, that was I love that. Yeah, And people don't know what compassion means, No, they do not these days, girl,

The children have forgotten compassion. The adults have forgotten compassion. Yes, well we we actually refer to all the adults as

the children. So I have to ask you, like, because after becoming such a fan of you on the show and then finding like your content offline and now being influenced by you in this way, it really feels like two different people sometimes, like the party that they have created in the edit, who is this you know, winner of Survivor who like used her whiles and like was cut throat and like then got put on the villains tribe and still clawed her way alongside Russell, Like you

know what I mean, and even controlled Russell, the biggest bad villain of all. And then I had to wonder, do you think that part of seeing yourself depicted that way? What did that do to you? Like? What's it like to watch yourself characterize on television like with the music underneath you and all that, Like what does that do? What is their dissonance? Is it? Does it? Does it sort of like go against the ways that you self identifying. That is such a good question. Yah, going deep girl,

this last cultures and we're happy to have you. We want to ask all the questions. I love. Yeah, I mean, it's it's really such an interesting question. And you know, for most people, you go through your life, you don't have to rewatch yourself back and hear the criticism of how people really feel about you as they watch you

and depicted as this character. So at the time in my life when I was on Cook Islands, Micronesia and Heroes Villains, I was in my twenties, which was a huge I don't know about you guys, but for me, it was like I was creating my identity at that can confirm Yeah, it's like who am I? I don't let me just try something and see how it goes. So I was like, oh, I'll just you know, I'll use what I know, which was flirting. And I was working as a bartender and waitressing and I got tips

through charming people and flirting. That how I made money. So I just used that same exact thing on Survivor and they turned me into this like black widow, diabolical, like crush all the men, rip their hearts and eat them alive and all those things. And I watched and I was like, Oh, is am I really that? So it was kind of a identity crisis for me where I was like, wait, do I even know who I am? I actually have no idea because I thought that I was a really like, kind and generous and fun person.

I mean, I know that I have certain talents in the male department at this point in my life, but ultimately they will do what we say, right, you know what I'm talking about. So yeah, it was a huge like moment for me of kind of an awakening that was like, oh, well, is this who I want to be moving forward? And is there some way to create more depth in my life? And am I gonna How am I going to do that? And What's where is

this going to lead me? So it really woke me up to start act asking a lot of questions of myself of if I keep going in this direction, where do I end up? And I didn't want to be like this alcoholic real housewife who just like cared about my Louis Vuitton bags, and it wasn't It's not me sure, So I had I had a moment where I was like, I don't I didn't like the backlash that I was getting. I didn't like how they portrayed me as like just running people over and not caring, especially guys. And I

was like, I'm gonna do something about this. So I just I got into yoga, I got into meditation, I started going to therapy. Guys. I mean, I've really been on a journey of self discovery. I think Survivor put me on this path. I really feel that from from you.

And so that's why I'm so happy and excited to talk to you about it, because I was really thinking about how even when so after you win Micronesia, you are now not only do you have like the image that they've created of you, but you're also well known as one of the best players of the game deservedly, so, I mean Micronesia, I think is like up there with some of the most masterful plays in terms of season long.

The way you won was just so incredible. So not only do you have the reputation for being good, but you also have this reputation for being a character. So when you go back to Heroes Versus Villains, did you find yourself sort of playing the character or did you find yourself playing the game? How did that sort of negotiate? I always go in to play the game first and foremost. It's funny because I go out on the island and then I kind of forget that the cameras are around

because I get so absorbed into this game. And at that point I was reading the forty eight Laws of Power, the Art of Persuasion. I was like, I have to know all of these tactics in order to win this game, because at that point in Survivor's history it was all about socio dynamic. It's changed a lot now it's there's more advantages and unexpected twists. So something falls out of the sky and it's like this is a super idol, which is good for the rest of the game. Like

what is happening. What happens to people talking? Yeah, well they've really fast tracted. Jeff Probs is now the executive producer, and he loves throwing throwing more twists and turns into the games. Yeah we we actually, we actually love Jeff Probes in this house. We respect and stand. But the fact of the matter is, like, I feel like what would have been fun for season forty is if they had gone all the way back to basics, no idols

know nothing. But you're you're a purists mindset, Matt. Yes, yeah, it turns out the new school players wouldn't have done as well if that was the case. Sure, well, I mean, I what I like about Survivor. I'm going to generalize, but for the most part, it seems like the way it treats its players and the way it treats the people you see on screen, it it doesn't it leaves them with their dignity in a way. It's not like, let's say, this is not the best one to one comparison.

It's not like a bachelor bachelorette situation where it's like people are like abjectly humiliated in some in some way, shape or form. At some point like it feels like everybody on Survivor, And what I what I like about it tonally is that it's not It's not a show that's meant to embarrass anybody or bring them to their load,

to like to bring them down so low. And so I feel like, I don't know, I just really respect the show for giving people an opportunity to just like evaluate the narrative that they see being produced of themselves and then being like, Okay, well I can either accept that or I can balance it with what I know to be true within myself. Does that make sense? Yeah? And the thing is what Survivor too, is you go

in as a contestant. You have to if you want to win, then you have to go in considering all the multiple layers of game that you're playing, so you have your own Okay, so nature is one rival basically you have you're going to be pushed your edge physically. You have no food, very little food. You have like really gross well water that's so yucky and has a very distinct Survivor flavor that you I hope never have

to taste, and then you're sleeping in the dirt. I mean, there was one scene where I had a spider on my head at night, which is like, oh, I wish they wouldn't have showed me that, because I have to live with that forever inating my dreams, I know. So there's nature, and then you also have like your own body. How does your body react when you don't have any food? Like I don't know about you, but I get angry. And other people don't think straight when they're pushed to

the edge like that physically. And then in addition to that, you have the other contestants that you're playing with, so you never know. They always cast for people that are from totally different realms of life, so they want to have as much drama and conflict as possible without having to produce it or created because they don't script anything.

And then you have the challenges and the actual gameplay, and then you have the idols, and then you have Jeff Probes, who is either on your side or not on your side, and you can feel that as a contestant, you feel like you do Yeah, I think he loves

you now. But in the in the beginning, he was like, oh my gosh, you're so perceptive, Matt Well, I mean, let's say this, He's come a long way, because I actually was really impressed with him calling himself out on the finale of Winners at War because and that whole discussion was really well worth having at this the Lisena discussion, I think was like a beautiful encapsulation of the progress

that he's made. I think, Oh yeah, well, I mean the thing with Survivor is very masculine dominant, and it's so oriented to honor and celebrate the masculine in everyone. Right, So the women that are given the most time on screen and in the game is the women who are CrossFit dominating. Yeah, it's not like the soft you know, Kim and I go back and we're like crying about our babies. They never show that we have to k

This is the thing people. People actually overlook One World and they have to watch One World because a Kim Spradlin is one of the best winners ever and be that season is serving you Comma d you cannot believe some of these people live in the world bow when you haven't seen One World. This young girl Coulton that they have on the show, Oh my word, wow, you

love a Culton. Anyone named a Coulton. That's actually real culture number you love anyone, Okay, but this is this is can I just say really quickly and this is the scene that I was referencing earlier before we brought poverty on. To go back to your point about it being this like male masculine game. Um, my favorite moment, one of my favorite moments in all of TV. I want to hyper this is my This is Micronesia, season sixteen, episode eleven. You and James come on bibliography, James r

Jay girl did the research. This this this is this is the apple eating die down. Know I just like I just like we're obsessed with the show now, you know what I mean, Like we've just recently found it again. And so I think both Bowen and I have like a little bit of addictive personalities. So now I'm what

I'm being a completionist about it. And when he was watching that season, we were texting each other saying that exchange between you and James is so it really boils it down to like that that dynamic of like James looking at you like I really expected better from you almost and you being like, well, I don't understand why I can't play the game the same way that you can. And also it's funny that you wouldn't expect me to

play the game as well as you. Yes, and it's the way that you are talking to arguably one of the most physically capable players ever on the show. Um, but then James is superhuman. Yeah, it's what you can tell, you can tell. But it's just it's just and this, this is the thing that we're saying. It's like this is out of like a Madman episode. It's like, there's always gonna be someone who bites the apple. Why can't you just leave the apple alone and enjoy the heavens? Well,

hopefully stay around hopefully. Sorry, sorry because you because you wouldn't give me credit for having a plan anyway, what an exchange. And then also then then how he is like you basically called that out. You're like, you think that I'm stupid, you think you have an assumption about me that's not true. And then he's like, no, I didn't say that. I didn't say that. I said you were selfish. It's like, well, you have to examine the

whole way that you have. He got got, and I feel like he got got and also AZZI got got and the way that he spoke to you, what did it feel like the way he spoke to you with that tribal council, Oh my god, was brutal. And what you didn't see what did not make the edit is Azzie stood up and asked me to do an interpretive day. Yes, I heard about this for how it felt to have been to have betrayed a friend over greed. Was it a thing where he wanted to humiliate you? Sorry? Yeah, yeah, okay.

She literally said, dance for me. That's that's that's that was his where he was at right. Well, and I think, honestly it just it does show the evolution of the game now that because people didn't respect my game before, and it took a while for people to start to become fans of me and of how I played and how we've gotten the women together and done some really incredible things that you know, had never been done in the history of Survivor before, but we didn't get any credit.

I certainly didn't have any accolades until probably years afterwards, where like the culture I think has shifted enough where women are now given like more respect for having intelligence and a strategic mind and really being willing to be brave and challenge the status quo and not have to bow down and play this nice girl role. You know, I'm glad if I helped kind of lay some bricks there, because I know, girl power, we gotta get up and

take stands for ourselves. You really did. And also in the casting of heroes versus villains and how they put put the tribes together, I'm like, this is so interesting to me. That and this it's like, we're weird to qualify people as that anyway, because Survivor just in the inherent like tenants of the game, it's like you have to be both of those things in different moments, and it's about that complexity in the gameplay. So they put

you on the villains tribe. Meanwhile Amanda and Surree are put on the heroes tribe alongside some other people, where I was like, is Candice a hero? That's interesting to me? I never thought about it like that. Actually, at this point, she mutinied on cook Islands made out with Adam like hello, no,

not cute, But here's what happened to the Survivor. They with casting, it's so funny because they have these themes like they'll cast people and then they'll be like, oh, well, we gotta make a theme right, right, and so they just put this theme together here versus done. It's like, okay, now we have to make our cast fit this theme. How are we gonna do that? So you can tell which typically you can tell which team or tribe you're gonna be on based on the color that you are

allowed to have from wardrobe. So they made me get blue for everything, like blue grays whatever, like cool colors. Yeah, so I had that great top. I had lists like blue bikini, and the night before the game starts, They're like, I had a yellow bikini for press photos because you have to have two bikinis, one for press one for the game. So I'm wearing a yellow bikini for my press photos, Like you're gonna need to wear your yellow bikini for the game. And I was like, oh weird.

They swopped me in Candice the day me on the villains tribe and you know why, It's because they didn't want you working with your girls exactly. And I mean there were four of us from my Carnesia on that tribe. Was James, Amanda answering I would have been in there around the house. Natalie was also on deck right that season. Oh yes, Natalie better. She deserved better. She's really very crafty.

So yeah, I think if the story of the whole of Micronesia is like you and the way that you kind of like really put together that alliance and like from bringing Alexis to Natalie in and also with Serria Amanda and just the expert way that you did that, I think that an underdog for like story of that season is the way that Natalie played, because I think I think Natalie Bolton deserved more, and I know that she was like on the island for Heroes versus Villain

was you're really going through the archives, girl, I'm going deep down deep better. She was in Ponderosa. So the place that we hang out before the game starts, they call it Ponderosa, And so you're there for probably three or four or five days kind of just not talking to anyone because you're on a agord because they're not filming anything. They don't want any interactions between people, so just sitting next to people, just giving them a side,

I like, kind of checking them out. Natalie's sitting there drinking her coffee and I was like, oh my god, I hope she's playing fun. Yeah, she's so fun. She's so fun to watch. She gives great confessionals and she makes big moves and it's like works great in teams, like fun to watch. Such a babe. I had a question, This actually is a question I asked my sister, who's

also a huge fan. I was like, what do you want to ask Parverty And she was like, she wants to know if it's a person that you've been You've always been kind of like a in a team like you you really do, like you have your alliance member and then you work in a team really well. Is there someone that you've worked with in the game of Survivor that's been your favorite person to work with? Oh? Yeah, I was Amanda. She was the best. Oh. It was like she and I could read each other's minds. Yeah.

I didn't even have to say anything. She was like, got you. I was like, how do you? How do you have You can't even script a relationship like that. And we hadn't even met ever before the game, and it was just like instant chemistry, instant connection. She and I were like day one, here's what we're doing. You're working, Assie, I'm working. James We're gonna pull in Surrey. Here we go, like, that's our game. Wow. And you hadn't even seen China

at that point because it wasn't air it wasn't brought. Yeah, I don't think that China had even started airing. Yeah, we didn't didn't know her or James. But I was just like, this guy is pretty cute. Yeah, he's literally the hottest man alive. Everyone that I tell to watch Survivor, the number one thing I get is where parv nation. And the second thing I get is James is small, the hottest man in the world, literally literally crazy, and he digs graves by hand still to this day. Wait,

how does that work? He has a shovel and he just digs grapes in Louisiana. Still. Yeah, it's his family business us and he has not like gotten into the technology of this century. So he's he's just so like an old school grave digger. When he first had a baby, he sent me a picture of him with his baby and like his baby Bjorn digging a grave with the baby in his pouch, dangling over, dangling over a plot.

So you keep in touch with people from the show or do they become your friends in real life, Like, you know, the relationships inside the game we see, but what happens after. Yeah, some people, I mean Ozzie and I have certainly buried the hatchet. I saw him at the farmer's market a couple of weeks ago, and you did not. Yeah, we just chit chatted with our masks on six feet apart. Wow, that is so funny. Yeah. Well, in l A, there's a lot of survivors running around,

so you're gonna jump into a few. I mean, I married Ron, so I see one every day. You married John Fincher, who was on SAMOA. Oh my god, you know everything. I mean, I'm like the thing about the survivor fandom, which I didn't realize until we started watching it was and we would kind of go on Instagram and just like say our takes or whatever the amount legion, legion. The feedback that we got was like, yeah, whoa, it's great. It's like a great vocal fan base, which is what

you want out of anything. Oh yeah, it's perfect. Like I'm like I don't mind. I'm like okay, yeah. Like people have their opinions like this is great, like this is an active whatever. The community of people well, I think what it is too, and you guys can tell

me if this is your experience. But when you're sitting at home watching the show and you see people get this opportunity, like there was an idol hanging from a tree and the choices do you take the idol or do you think if this is a trick and walk away,

like what would you do? And I think you can project yourself into the characters or the personalities that you're seeing on screen and one archetype that fits you and be like, this is me, this is how I would be in this adventure, and there's you can sort of play the game through your favorite person. Wow, yeah, that's definitely true. And then I also think it's always just easy to see yourself doing the right thing because you're not starving on a beach. You're not like you haven't

been privy to the edit of the episode. Like, so whenever anyone does something quote unquote dumb, I always try to take a step back and think, like as someone who can appreciate the edited television series I'm watching, like they're starving this and you might have done something even dumber in a way earlier episode and got voted out like trying to like that kind of self awareness is what we really validate. So would you give us your necklace?

Matt Um literally you I might, And then you know, honestly, can you can you even imagine? That was so insane? It was perfect that it was perfect, Like the sequence of events leading up to that was perfect, and like the oral history of it all, like that's on like Entertainment. Yes, he's talk about her super fan amazing, He's gone down for every season, He's covered every season is for Entertainment Weekly, and he does these massive write ups and stories for

like each episode, like do you ever sleep? How do you Deserve? Because it's so layered and it's like the like the the gameplay is so like manifold and complex and it really is like three D chests that everyone's playing because I think I don't know. I just to know from you. What do you think? What's the quality that you think survivor brings out in you anytime you're on the island? Is it? Is it? The social aspect is that you're using your powers of persuasion, like try

to tell people what to do. It's really um, I think it's the connection to nature and having a complete separation from any of your day to day responsibilities. That puts me into this space of I am like really deeply connected to my intuition, so I can follow. It's like guidance just moves me, so I can follow that inner guidance. I'm like, oh my gosh, if I feel really gored and uncomfortable about having this conversation with this person like Wendell or whatever, then I have to do it.

I have to actually step up, put myself out of myself, risk embarrassment, risk looking stupid, and have this conversation that's awkward, like that conversation that I had with James after I voted Azzie out. Like I have to face the music and have those conversations, and that is what moves the game forward, because like in real life, I don't love conflict and I do not want confrontation in my life, so I'll just you know, smile walk away like not interested.

But on Survivor, I have to show up in a totally in just a braver way, yes where socially, especially with those social dynamics, I have to say the things that maybe I normally wouldn't say, and I have to ask for things that normally would feel uncomfortable for me to ask for, so it's it is empowering. And then watching how the how that moves me forward or moves

the game forward. I mean inevitably those conversations always make the edit, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I felt so awkward having that conversation, but look at how it showed up. It doesn't actually look awkward on screen, but it's just how I felt inside that it was. You know,

I wanted to um ask too. So speaking of conflict, like you, I think, without really knowing who Russell Hans was because you hadn't seen his season of Survivor, ended up in a extremely close alliance with Russell Hants and heroes versus villains, And then you find yourself sitting next to Russell Hans and Sandra dis Twine queen at the end of the not the queen, she would say, Queen stays queen. She's a queen. Man um, We'll give it

to her she deserves. But there you are, like at the end of it, sitting next to Russell and Sandra and watching the way that they interacted and sort of you in the middle of it all. What was that experience, like you know, sad your wins. Russell's there, he feels some type of way about it. You can tell that you're disappointed, because I think that after watching the season, it's pretty clear that you, I think deserve to win. But like there's lots of going on. What is that

situation like navigating that it's it's it's just awkward. I'm sitting in the middle of these two. Sandra already won, Russell lost, no votes for Russell, and it's over. Now they're going at each other and you guys just can't stop. It's like the game never stopped with those two ever. And for me, it's like when I'm done with the game, I breathe this, I really if I just like heavy sob and then I move on. I'm like, okay, time to see what's next in my life. But I was

just I was over it. By then. I'd gone through the experience of Heroes Villains, which was hard enough, like really really scarring and wounding and traumatic for me, and then sitting in the finale where they're just like hands in my face, I was just like, okay, I walk away, get out of here, I mean, and then Sandra and the Bone pointed out the other day, like Sandra will be an interview is like I hate life, hates him too now, but it's it's all it's all in acting,

that's all facade. I hate likes him and he thinks about me all the time, and I don't think about him ever except for now while I'm talking about that. She is quite iconic. And then you have to you have to hand it to the show because truly all twenty winners, like you could argue about who should have been there whatever, an iconic bunch, and I know we're pretty like very distinct. Everyone's very distinct in their own unique way. Yeah, and how an interaction between everyone is

that's really where the magic happens. Truly great and I think that like me as like a like a real fan, like I of course wanted to see it be like old school at the end, Like I would have loved if at the end it was like you you rob Sandra. You know, that's I think what we all dream of, But ultimately it didn't pan out that way. How do you feel watching it about the way it shuck out with Tony winning and you're own vote for Natalie and Michelle receiving no votes, Like, what's your take on the

season now having seen it? Well, I would have loved to have been at the end with all of those people as well, like me, Rob Tyson with this baby girl, Oh my god, that episode. They're just the best and just so real, and I don't really get caught up in the drama. It's kind of like, Okay, we're just going to be friends with whoever we want to be friends with and then moving on. But yeah, I loved

how the season ended. I really, I really did. I feel so delighted to have been a part of season forty, even though I didn't do like as well as I typically tend to do and survivor being at the end with Tony, who is so wild and outrageous, and it's truly like, no one is making a spy nest in a tree? How are you doing this? How are you been thinking about that? It's like so freakish that you wouldn't even think to look for it, and yet you're watching me like, Natalie, look up, look up, he's in

the tree. It's like, whoever, dude, you walk Okay, the guitar sort of proke. I'm thinking about what how that would have been for me, like walking to the well and having a conversation with Sarah and then just would you feel this presence of or would you just be so caught up in the conversation that you're having, because there's the conversations you have are so intense towards that point in the game that like it's all you can

focus on. So I don't know if I would have felt like the hair on the back of my neck standing up. I'm telling you, it's like sitting over the branch about to fall. And the fact that he took a torch, like he made a torch, and Midnight goes out hunting for an idol, Like if he found an idol, come on, come on, you're not even a human being.

Who I was like, there's no way, and that I was watching it, and I was like, if he finds it right now, I'm gonna have to think this ship is fixed because it is the pitch black dark of the night. You can't black, you can't see a single thing. And also there's a lot of crazy sounds happening in the jungle at that point. There's like scurrying, there's squaw talking. I mean, you don't know what you're gonna put your

hand in in the middle of the night. It's going to be hard no from me, actually on that one. Hard no. And here I am saying the other day I was like, I think I have to go on. I was like, I think I must go on, and I think I want to go on. I think you should go on. But listen, you have a real shot. You're a super fan. You can pull out trivia like any super fan that I've seen. Jeff loves that. So that's what you really want to lead with in your interview.

And then also just be like, oh, I'm so dynamic. Everyone loves me. Look at how great I like. You love me, like, you can't stop thinking about me. Just the man, the man would not be able to get me off as mine. There's a chance and he he doesn't send a chance that nerd anyway. Um wait, okay, so we're gonna take a break and then we're gonna come back and we're gonna ask party the question that the capital T capital Q. Great, and we're back, so

let's ask poverty the question. And that question is poverty, what is the culture that made you say culture is for me? Matt what is that question? So basically, this is like when you were coming of age, becoming parv. This was the culture that entered your life and you said, oh wow, I feel moved to to become myself. Maybe you didn't know it at the time, but you can find it now. Oh my gosh, I am feeling this

question so much. Yes, okay, So I don't know if you guys know this about me, but I grew up in a commune basically like a Hindu spiritual community in Florida, and it was yoga, we chanted, we ate vegetarian food. And then when I turned nine years old, we packed up my mom's silver Chevy Spectrum drove up to Georgia and we moved to the inner city of g A And from there, I was like all my friends were black or brown, and I was like, oh my gosh,

this is so fascinating. All these new people with all these new like tastes and experience food and sounds, and I was so curious about it. So I got into really got into R and D in a major ways. Tony Braxton and Vogue, Mariah carry Whitney, you're talking to a full lamb right here. And also, like I am in the Emily and like, what's your favorite Maria album? My favorite Mariah album? It was the one that was like, honey, it was okay. I mean, the old school of the

fast love it every day of my life. And I was so torn. I was like, who do I love more? Whitney or Mariah? Whitney and Mariah and they would in the radio stations they would have those battles between the two, and I want to dance with somebody, like, how do you top that? I mean, can you even beat that? That's one of the best songs of all time? I mean, And also you mentioned Tony Braxton, who I feel the

children have forgotten Tony. The fact of the matter is Tony, you know, that is an iconic voice, a once in a lifetime that sounds straight butter, butter. You can't really replicate it. I mean, you can't replicate it. But it's like you would immediately think Tony Braxton if it was that low, that velvety. Yeah, you're like, that's that's a throwback to Tony. Can you can you do an impression?

Don't mean? And then well, the thing about her is you don't think that because she comes at you like with all of this and then like she also has range, like she's belting her ass off to break my heart. And I was like, if I could only be like these women, like just belt it out and really like take a stand and be sexy and strong and sensual

and total badass. That is what formed my identity. It was like sixth grade, seventh grade, eighth grade, R and B those ladies and like the groups like s w V. Do you remember that w V and Taj from s WV was cast on Survivor and I just lost my mind. I was like, oh, my god, which season I honestly don't remember. You guys are probably played. Yes, look it up to Wait, why don't I know this either? That's crazy? Yeah, get into it, Matt. Wait, Matt, you have to listen

to STVUV. You have to have es sisters voices seen. And yes, now it's all I think. I didn't know your brief so weak. Oh that's a Jim. It's so fascinating that you say that, like, because I did feel like that that like time in the mid nineties, like when it really ate good. Oh we were eating Never, I guess it was never, not that edge of extinction in terms of rich musical culture, you could say it was quite the opposite in fact, but it was chunky,

peanut butter and rich as well. But honestly, like when Mariah like found, when Maria like truly the Chrystalists opened and Mariah became the Butterfly. There are some tracks on Butterfly album like the Roof, like Breakdown, like there are there's so much like good, rich, good stuff, and it's true like that was the point in time when R and B music was truly I think, like running everything

Brandy to get Brandy. You're like, this is what life is about because it was true storytelling and then I'm learning so much, yes though, and yes though, but there is like also like I remember, like when Christina Aguilera came out too, I was like, see this is this is the clear choice for me? Yes, I remember, Yeah, we we all wanted to. We we all saw ourselves on our mind's eye as that. Yeah. But what about the Mandy Moore situation when she came out, she came

out around the same time, was Mandy Moore, Brittany Christina? Yes, and then we had Jessica in a distant fourth That's right. So Mandy So Mandy is so interesting because I feel like she like took a hard left on her third album, which do we think that's too early because it was because because no third album was when she just did pure covers. She did like I feel she did like Carol King covers and she did like, um, you know, Spanish harlem Mona Lisa's and Manhatters by Elton John. Like

she was going. She was like basically turning into a forty year old white woman by the time she was like seven, you know, which we which we love now, which we related to, but back then, like an eighth grader was like, what is she doing? Yeah, this is not pop star, yes that no, but she she actually um like Candy. There's some vocal moments on that that was high school for me though, So that was a little bit after my formative years at the R and

B moment right right right. And also it's like once you've been once you've been in middle school and joining the R and B moment Mandy Moore, Mandy Moore isn't impressing you with like I'm fdic, yeah, but I will say my the gag of her whole discography for me is cry well and remember I was gonna say anything from a walk to remember, but also what a b with you that day? Love and the way that it starts where she goes, she goes, and sure, but I just can't do It's just such a weird song. Weir,

what is this? It's crazy? It's crazy. Amanda Moore, Amanda Amanda, Amanda Lee Silver scre in Godess. Yeah, I'm just really transformed, raking in the dough, as they would say, being the lead actress on This is Us. Good for her? Wait, can we ask about your parents? Because I love that, I love I love the anecdote of in Micronesia you're holding up your round for six hours using mantra mantra that you that your dad gave you, and like was

he was? He just kind of like sourcing you with like certain things in terms of like being able to spiritually psychically like connect to all the dots in your head like while you were playing Survivor or like like like talk about like how they kind of influenced your gameplay, but like what they sort of gave you the tools? Yeah, did give Oh we know that story. Dads, they famously

have tools. It's actually a real culture. Number one and three, Dads, they have to I really wanted to join you guys on that one, but feel feel free to join anytime. It's actually it actually reinforces the rule of culture even more when the guest joins in. Okay, So yes, my dad. The first time I played in Cook Islands, my dad was so fired up about this because he loves camping.

He's from the woods in New Hampshire. Like they used to play games when he was younger where they would get a bow and arrow and shoot it up in the sky and like dodge it. That was his childhood game. That god, that is such like a like fill in the blank like dad used to play this. So be happy with your video game. Like when I was a kid who used to shoot a bow and arrow in the sky and it fell down, it would kill you

if your great day out of the way. So I'm sorry, I can't charge your game boy right now while we're in the car. Okay, So anyway, when I get when I get cast on season thirteen, Micrones, I mean Cook Islands, my dad's like pumped. This is his childhood dream from true and he is going to live vicariously through me. As I throw myself into this adventure. So he calls me, He's like, you gotta come home. We gotta train. He sets up this um archery set in the backyard with

like a hay barrel. I mean he lives in the suburbs of Georgia. I don't know where he got this hair. Hey, robot, he got it. And so he set that up. We're doing fire making with flint and a machete. The whole works, and he's just like trying to teach me how whittle sticks and like build a shelter. He's like, here's an a frame. This is how you build an A frame was the best to like guard you from the wind. And I was just like, okay, Dad, here we go.

So then when I went back from Micronesia, I mean he realized, like survival, okay, nature, I got it handled. He taught me all of that the last time. So this time I just remember we were just sitting at the dinner table and my dad was like, oh, hey, you know, just just like off the cuff. Hey, if you were ever you know, need need some help out there, you should try out this mantra. It's own money pod hump.

I used to chant it a lot when I was in New York City, when my dad's lived multiple lifetimes. In his long lifetime, he was a yogi in New York City who would just meditate like six seven hours a day, and he was part of this like spiritual group there and he's like, oh, my money, pud, my home. It means the strength of the universe is inside of me,

So you chant that whenever you need it. And it just like it was like a nothing, and then we moved on to whatever else when we're talking about and I remember in that challenge, I was holding my arm up and probably in the first five minutes, I'm starting to feel the fire, the numbing, and I'm like, oh this, this is going to be challenging. And I knew I had to win that challenge in order to pull off

the whole blindside of Assi. So I was like, all right, no one else, everyone's stepping down for peanut butter and pikis and milk and chocolate, and I'm like, I have to win this. And Jason would not get down because he thinks we're going to vote him. Yeah, and he's tough. I mean, he was a good challenge competitor. So I'm I'm feeling it. I'm like, oh, it was just my dad's It just popped into my head. Oh, money pad my home, and I was praying. I was like praying.

I was honestly asking for assistance. I was like, okay, God, like can you help me? Like universe gottas like divine creative power, please help someone. Anyone's like are you listening to me? Like I need your help to keep my arm up. I don't know if I can do this, And all of a sudden that that mantra popped into my head. I start repeating it in my mind and I can feel the power of the universe expanding inside of me, and I'm like, oh, if I'm the universe,

I'm going to hold my arm up forever ever. Ye did you leave your body? I left my body. I don't remember so much of that challenge. I remember seeing a butterfly and then like the challenge was over and it was ranked out six hours that you held your arm up. Yeah, it was. It was a little over six hours. And you know what happened after that was Jeff and the art department and challenge apartment was like,

We're never going to have production do this. Challenge like this ever again because they don't want to sit there and fill it for six hours, so they make it harder and harder every time they make the post that you have to stand on skinnier like the valance you can. He's like, Okay, today we're gonna flip a coin that's gonna be a hedge of tails. And if you had to get aheads, you get to do the puzzle right

because we gotta go those long. It's the end of an era with the long, grueling endurance challenge, which is a bummer because I love those. I mean, I'm so good at them. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you really did transcend. And then I mean, is that something that you end up wanting to engage with like throughout your life? Like, I don't, like, you have to be pretty selective with the moments in your life where you want to like fully leave your body. Oh my god, stop, No, it's

one of my favorite things to do. Really, yes, how often do you do it? Now? I So I practice Kundalini yoga, which is a style of yoga that is really makes you high. Basically, it builds the strength of your nervous system and helps you to be able to adapt and handle stress really like helps your expand your awareness so you can just do more things in your life.

And so I really love the style of yoga, but it's it's weird, and you have to do weird stuff like hold your arms up for X amount of minutes and do this certain type of breathing, and it's just like you expand out of your body, like the edges of your body are totally gone. You don't even know where you come and where you go anymore. You turn into a pink cloud of love. I've done that before. I mean, yeah, I'm just giving away all my goods

to you guys. But I go to UM. I go to this Kundalini yoga festival in New Mexico and they do this every year around the summer solstice, and I will do three days of this thing called white Ton Trick meditation, where you're sitting cross legged in front of your partner and there's thousands of people. Everyone's wearing white everyone's got a turban on, so you look like a total whack job. Some people are wearing crystal headgear that

they've made homemade themselves. It looks crazy, But the experience that I have is transcendent, like I love it, and there's no when I'm done with that meditation, the colors in the world are so beautiful. Like people explain, I've never done to see I've never done an asset, I've never done like hallucinogens. Really it sounds, I mean literally as people that like that. It sounds like that's what you are saying. I was going to ask you if you've if you've done that now, I think you guys

would love it. We'll get into the Cunali Yoga Festival. We knew the podcast from there and something. So you're saying we can get the same thing we get from LSD, except we don't have to drastically change our body chemistry with drugs. You don't. You actually change your body chemistry by doing this kind of meditation. There's some kind of like hormonal changes that happen. I don't. I'm not like a neuroscientist, so I can't tell you what exactly goes

on when you do this, but they do. They've done a lot of studies about this specific style of meditation in yoga, and the brain changes when you do it, and it's like helps you to have a more a broader perspective so that you can live your life with and like have a connected experience with your own inner divinity, your own creative you know wisdom, that life force that flows through you and guides you to the best, you know,

best life possible for you. That is unbelievable. Today, I just play you guys, like hi right now, just yes, I know I'm a little like I'm listening to you, and I'm soothed to be honest. I always talked myself out of um, well, many things, but like like with meditation. I had an ex boyfriend that got really into it after we broke up, and I was just thinking to myself, like, oh God, was that me that I caused him to

go nuts? But he but because I I it was just so not a part of my culture, like I'm like from like a working class family on a long island like where it was just kind of like the emotions of it all kind of got swept under the rug a little bit, and I didn't really become like emotionally in touch with myself until my twenties. And so this was the first experience I had being close with

someone who got really into meditation. But it was such a positive change for him, and I I would try to do it, and I find that, um, this is probably just the beginner thing that people tell you all the time. It my mind would just race and I could feel like I could never get comm enough to a place where I would let it work for me, and so I've just never really committed to it. Do you have any advice for people who it's probably most difficult in the beginning, but want to push past that

because they want this to work for them. Yeah, totally. And that's a that is such a common experience for new meditators. I mean, it's just like you have all of these patterns and habits in your mind of thinking and you haven't ever tried to change them or really look at them before. They're just kind of operating in you. So it's a natural thing to sit down and just be totally wired. So what I would encourage you to

do is two things. One, get some like physical activity before you try to sit down, which is this real purpose of yoga is to prepare the body for meditation.

So your people are doing this more strenuous Spanyasa flow yoga classes or Kundalini yoga classes, so that they can calm the body down or tie or the body out enough that you can have a little more spaciousness in the mind and have a little more relaxation in your mind, because the body and the mind are intimately connected, right The body speaks in the language of feelings, the mind speaks in the language of thoughts. They're just trying to

get your attention. So when you sit down, what you want to do is have a little more relaxation in the body and then start to get some understanding of what you're doing. In meditation, it's like you want to know if you're beginning to be a painter, you can just go to the store and buy some paints and buy a canvas and just start doing it, and it

might be good or it might be horrible. But if you have instruction, or if you have like if you've gone through some YouTube videos and learned about like some painting basics, then you're just more prepared to sit there and be okay with yourself being a beginner and messing

up and trying over again. So meditation is similar to that, where it's like, just learn a little bit about what it is what you're trying to do, because what you're really trying to do is calm like activate the prefrontal cortex, which is your um it's your CEO in your brain. Basically, it's your decision maker. It's the like it's the thinking part of the brain, the executive functioning. You want to activate that, but you want to close down all your

other senses. So you want to close your eyes. You want to draw your attention inward, and you want to focus all of your attention here at the front of the forehead, so like the third eye area, that like mid brain area. And as you do that, these other parts of your brain, like the reptilian brain that's responsible for habits and survival all those things, starts to calm down.

The limbic brain, which is emotion, starts to calm down, starts to get quiet, and really so then only what's really online and what's active is this prefrontal lobe, which is where you can start to have some more deeper awareness about yourself, like what is this What is causing this negative consequence in my life? Like I haven't I don't know what's going on, but my relationship is not

going well. I wonder why that's happening. How am I somehow creating this situation, co creating this situation in my relationship, you can start to ask yourself questions like that to develop some more awareness of how you are ultimately responsible for creating your own reality. So it really puts you in the power seat of your life doing that, so then you can actually make different decisions and choices and

and actually change your life for the better. You're very good at just breaking this down in a very clear way, because I've I've always wondered like how to verbalize this

and that, like it makes complete sense to me. And I was watching one of your YouTube videos the other day when you were talking references before, but when you were talking about scarcity mindset even just like um, which is the fixation on what you don't have, and how that's ultimately not productive um, and how that's a choice to feel that way actually, and it's it's not necessarily easy to stop thinking about way it's And when you can identify that, you can identify why you're in a

like toxic holding pattern or you're focusing on negative stuff. Yeah, it's this false sense of we think we can change the thing that we're obsessed over by obsessing over it. And it's like, actually it's a trap, but that just feeds it more. Yeah, totally. And in quarantine, I think that a lot of us are having a lot of problems with that because we're just sitting around and with not much to do and a lot of a ton of uncertainty, and that, of course, like is a breeding

ground for being alone with ourselves. It's so funny when people say, right now, we're quote unquote alone, because I think we're not really alone, because we're with the thousands of voices in our heads. How have you how have you been dealing with the quarantine of it all? Have you found yourself like coping with a lot of this stuff or do you feel prepared for this or I'm

wondering where your head is at. Yeah, Honestly, it's been super helpful for me because what I've recognized through this quarantine experience is how asked I was moving and how I was trying to keep up, Like I had this external pressure on myself to keep up. And it wasn't like I was trying to keep up with other people

or compete with other people. It was more like myself like I was putting all this pressure to keep up with myself and like make all these commitments and say I saw this stuff and go go go and figure out childcare and do the best thing with my baby and be the best mom and be the best everything,

literally everything. And when this quarantine hit, I was like, oh, I'm doing that to myself, and it's so stressful to live that way, and so it just gave me a sigh of relief, honestly to not have to put on clothes and go to a social engagement and like make sure that my child was getting like puzzles or whatever, like brain stimulation. I was like, you know what, she's gonna be fine. She's actually okay, Yeah, she's like eating just spilling a huge tub of popcorn in my living room,

literally eating popcorn off the rug. Fine, she didn't we all do that as kid? I do that to I do this, do that once a week. No, that's great. The part because because because the other the corollary I guess to the scarcity mindset um lesson I would say is that, uh, it's it's slightly more productive to imagine how you would feel if you had the thing and behave let that affect and inform the behavior from from

from that place instead of constantly fixitting on the lack. Yeah, so it can shift you out of this hamster whiled as I was comparing it too, because it's like, if we think we're missing something like stay on the edge of ex stanction. We don't have food, right, and when you start obsessing, like Survivor, people talk about food all the time. Production will just sit there and start throwing rocks at each other. They're so bored because we're talking

about smores and like pancakes. Again, we just get obsessed about the thing that we're missing. And this happens in every aspect of life, like time, money, relationships, jobs. You obsess over the thing that you think you're missing, and you think, oh, if I just go faster, if I try harder than I'll get the thing that I'm missing. But just for the mere fact that you're thinking in terms of what you're missing means you're going to get more of what you're missing. It's like focusing on what

you don't want. If you're paying attention to what you don't want, you're like, I don't want to be single,

and that's all you think about. You were going to be single for the rest of your life, sorry to say, so you have to shift over into what would it feel like to be in a relationship, like with someone who I really loved and cared about, and what would we be doing together, and how would we be interacting and what would we would be how would we be spending our time, what would be staying to each other? So I like, did this at one point in my life?

I did? I wanted a relationship, And so I realized that the choices I was making at the time, we're not going to lead me towards a healthy relationship that healthy period. Cold Turkey cut my man addiction and just stopped. And I was like, all right, forty days, I am going on a nan clean I am not dating. I am not flirting, which was very hard for me. I am not perusing the aisles of Whole Foods looking for hot guys. I am on a break that they're Girlson's

toe up. No, okay, that's actually really get the Galson's rule. If that's real culture numbers up. Yes, toe up is actually one of the phrases that I love the most, Like have you seen clueless? Clearly, so the scene with Dionne where where um they're they're like playing tennis, and Brittany Murphy, the goddess um comes in and she's like not looking great, chairs like, oh my god, that's a new project. And Dion goes share she is toe are Stuck? Would plummet just the best script of all time? But

toe up is music? Come back? Okay? So and a man cleanse. You brought it right back? You just did that. Yeah, So I'm on a man clans. So while I'm doing this, I'm like, I commit to forty a forty day period of stopping the obsession. So this is really helpful for those of you who have been fixating on things. Commit to a period of time. Forty days is good because that's enough time to give your brain a chance to establish a new habit. So forty days commit and then

you decide, what is it? What's my purpose here? What am I trying to do for me? I wanted to create a relationship with someone who could eventually lead towards marriage and a family, because it was like I knew in my bones I wanted to have a baby, and I wanted that so bad. So I did this. I committed. I had my intention. I want to create a relationship that leads towards marriage. Then I start journaling about it. I'm like, okay, well, what do I want this guy

to look like? What do I want to feel like inside of this relationship? What do I want us to be doing? Like? I wanted someone who was adventurous, who was athletic, who liked being outdoors and like doing fun things and musical and sporting, and yeah, took a really handsome rocket scientist. He's a rocket scis I know, I know that, I know this, and as and a gorgeous man. He's pretty your journal, your journal, So I journal about it and literally, okay, So as I'm going through this

process for myself, I have I'm tested. I'm tested guys. Yes, a couple of guys pop up in my field and I'm like, oh, that would be fun to engage with. Yeah, that's going to happen to you if you make this commitment. Just know you will reins sport. So that's happening. I have to keep bringing myself back to my intention, to my commitment to clear the obsession. And I'm journaling and at night I'm going to bed and I'm imagine I'm

like feeling my head laying on this guy's chest. I like feeling what it would feel like to have this guy in bed with me, like laying there being together. And I swear I have this moment where I close my eyes and I see in my mind this blue flame in outer space and this pink flame in outer space, and they're like dancing independently, and then they come together and it's this bonfire and then they separate and they danced in depend I swear, you, guys, I can't make

this stuff up. And as we know in the game of Survivor, fire is life, fire fire is family. Yeah. So then literally a week after I'm done with the forty day cleanse, I meet John from Survivor Samoa. We are in a car soccer game, Yeah, on the way to a soccer game. He slides I slide next to him in the back seat, and I'm like, oh my gosh. We've met before like once, and it was nothing. And then this time I was like in a whole different headspace because you know, I did my thing and I

was so into him, like from right away. He was like so comfortable and I just like leay my head on his shoulder and I was like, don't do it. Part don't do it. Oh my god, that's so funny you say that, Like out of nowhere, I knew what I wanted to be with my boyfriend and I found myself like without even thinking, just kind of going like that. I was like, playing yourself. That's the best. Yes. So then we were and then we were dating ever since.

So it's manifestation one oh one. Honestly, I mean, I'm literally going to do this, do it forty days now. I mean at this point, I mean with quarantine, it's just no apps. But like that's that's that's already a huge shift. It's a huge lurch into committing to this

and committing to knowing what I want. It's also this thing now where it's like, I mean all we're talking about now is like missing human interaction and among other things obviously, but it's like, okay, but the more I think about not interacting with humans, does that create does that set me up for just missing it even more or just obsessing over the lack of that. Well, I'll

tell you how you can tell Do you want to know? Yes, we want to know when you're obsessing about something, just no is how it makes you feel when you're thinking about oh I'm missing interaction and missing humans. Does it make you feel like empowered and inspired? What does it make you feel like? It makes you feel sad and um miserable and like, I mean stress if you want to define it as like being uncertain about the future,

like that's all that that's all that is. It's pure stress. Yeah, So from that place, you're going to keep creating more of that. So you have to shift your body into a state of more like openness, feeling good, feeling more alive, feeling more joyful. That's how you can create from that place. So you notice, like when you're obsessing over something and it doesn't make you feel good, it makes you feel crappy, then that's a great signal. That's great. It's like great information.

There's no judgment around any of this whatever. It's just great information for you to notice, oh my gosh, i'm doing it. I'm creating more of this crap that I don't want. So then you can empower yourself to move out of that. And then that's when you hold your arm up for six hours and you're like, I'm amazing. Oh money, you win immunity in life. You guys are learning that well literally yes, I mean like it literally has.

It's like I mean when I when I got into The Housewives, I was like, not much as positive is coming from this, but at least it is like it's showing people who are like, you know, fully engaging with their lives, and like, even if it is conflict driven, like at least they're saying in the way they feel, and that is something positive that I got from it.

With Survivor, it's like there, I think the positive thing that I get from it is just like understanding people and the way that they act and thinking to myself, like, this is how people act when they feel that they're acting in their own best interest, And it's just very interesting as like a social We talked on our last episode about how like it's a very interesting microcosm of the world Survivor for people, they see what they want

to see. Oh yeah, well don't we all. And that's the thing with Natalie, that's the reason why she didn't win, because because she just she didn't give enough. She was like of hoarding her coins and and like I still voted for her because I just think what she did was totally epic. Being able to vote such a good story, come back and disrupt in the way that she did. She rocks. She she's so much fun, but she's also like the reason she didn't win is because she didn't

get the jurors from the edge. She wasn't like generous enough with them, She wasn't willing to give up some of her I gotta say, I gotta say, I can't stand that um line of thinking because I wanted to

ask you this too. So I read an interview, an exit interview with Sarah Lesina Um, and she was saying how she really wasn't aware of the way she was coming off to the jury who were on edge until Natalie came back into The perception was that Tony was running the game and that Sarah would really have to distinguish herself in order to have a chance. And then we had that moment where Sarah Lesina called out the gender bias in the show, when it led to a

larger discussion. I wanted to ask you, was that the reception on the edge of like were people sort of running the conversation like it kind of feels through the screen like Boston Rob might have been very strong about the way he felt about things that the way they should go and etcetera. Like, was there was there a belief that like Tony was the strongest player and like to anyone else, Like what was that? No, I think

what was happening was Sarah. Yes, Boston, Rob is very opinionated and he's always going to tell you how he feels, so you just know that's coming. Like when Sophie and Kim came back from the game, they were the ones who were saying, like, Sarah, I think Sarah's like really putting it on, like she says, she says all these things. She's trying to create a bond with us, and she's using really deeply personal um things to connect with us, and it feels icky. That's what they were saying about

working with Sarah. So they came back and they were the ones who were saying it wasn't about Tony being the mastermind. It was more about Sarah kind of lloyd ing a more human connection that they felt was off limits and that's why they didn't want to vote first Sara. So they were the one. I didn't meet Sarah in the game at all. I didn't feel any kind of

way about there. And you know how I would feel about girl power, like if she showed up and was like, I am I have been working with Tony this whole time, and now I'm going to blindside him and vote out Ben or whoever whatever, or vote out Tony, Like why didn't you turn on Tony and vote him out? It's really yeah, sure, And people were just falling on their swords left and right at the end, Like how do you guys feel about that? That was very strange for me. I mean it was it was odd to watch people

just kind of give up at the end. I was like, you're here, you know what I mean like this, I don't think this helped your narrative at all in the in the larger grand scheme of things. It's like, I

don't know, I didn't didn't love that very quickly. I want to say that like you, it seems like you had sort of you were sort of the foreman for the jury in a moment where you were like talking to Tony and you were like talk to us about how you lineside at all of us, but that none of us feel any sort of resentment or ill will towards you, Like that kind of like that was the moment We're wearing you like, oh, I actually thought Natalie had had a shot at winning this, but it's probably

go to Tony because none of the jury members really feel that Tony was responsible for them being where they were. That really is truly a testament to Tony's mastery in the Game of Survivor because him being able to blindside and back sub and vote people out, these big ego people like Jeremy, like he windle all these people and not have them feel like I hate you, I'm going

to destroy you. And none of them were campaigning against Tony at all, right, So it's just it was a testament like, Wow, you've done something that I've never been able to pull off in this game. When I vote people off, they hate me. And I don't know if that's the that's the gender bias happening, because I think it could be a little gender bias where it's like, oh, I got got by it like an alpha dude, but

that's cool because that's what they're supposed to do. But when a woman gets you, it's like, oh, I got played by a girl. For sure. This actually correlates to my I don't think so, honey, to be very honest, which we are gonna take a very quick break and then come back and do that right after this, and we are back even and so now it is time for I don't think so honey, and it is truly the joy of my life that Partty is going to

be doing this with us. So for those of you who may be tuning in for the first time to Lost Coach and thank you for that. I don't think so honey is a sixties second segment that we do here. We take something in the culture that's just grinding our gears that we don't love, and we take it down and we say, I don't think so honey that thing, and it's it leaves the culture in shame. Yes, Matt,

you have something. I do have something. I have something that is survivor related even okay, great, um, Just so this is Matt Rogers. I don't think so honey. As time starts now, I don't think so honey. Amber saying that ever and thinks Rob deserved his win her win on All Stars. Girl, you won that season because let me tell you what you actually did. And you need to give yourself credit for and you need to examine

why you're not giving yourself credit for it. You had the biggest strategist in the game literally fall in love with you and then not only protect himself but went out of his way to protect you. And you had him, this guy who's supposed to be all about himself, all about the game, protecting you. That is a move. And at the end of the day, you did have a better gauge on that jury at the time, which was

a time when people were taking things very personally. You were able to get to the end and win rightfully. So because he did not manage the jury as well as you did. I believe that everyone who wins ultimately should win, and I don't think so, honey. You're not giving yourself the credit. I have to say, while I was moved by the emotion in the moment, didn't love the messaging behind the moment. I don't think so, honey. That and that's one minute. Wow, it was so good.

I gotta say that kind of like I was watching it and I was like, I should be like more moved by this, but I'm really just disappointed because I want to see her step into her power. She is a survivor winner. She won All Stars down, hands down, and he he won the season that he was supposed to win, he did not win. All starts to me, he was playing a game that they nailed him for.

She's just such a selfless, loving woman and she just she plays that role of wife and mother so traditionally where her whole role is to, you know, expand extol her man's virtues and praise him and make him feeling about himself. And she does a great job at that. But I think you're right with your I don't think so, because she totally earned that. Yeah, then they got married on TV. The whole thing, the whole thing, And I mean,

like I just remember why. I remember that was back in the day when I was still watching it season to season and thinking to myself, like, Amber is the clear winner because she really like was party to every decision. She was quote unquote in troll of every decision. And people also forget on her season, there was a tribe shake up that put her on the other tribe and it was there was no one there for her, and she still survived. So anyway, this is again me being

the ban I'm exposing myself. Um, but yes, okay, so at this time, it's not gonna be bow and yangs, I don't think so I had a non survivor. I don't think so, Manny, but I haven't I have a survivor topic planned. What I actually want you to do, and this is what I always want you to do, is to follow your heart. And you're my best best friend in the world, my best friend in the world. You're my Amanda Kimmel because you look like Amanda, because Amanda Kimmel is Amanda Kimmel is me in a wig?

Is that is unfortunately the deal? And not even unfortunately. She's the gorgeous it's really you're so cute eyes the eyes in the mouth. Me and Bowen are Amanda and parv And at the end of the day, I think Bowen, you would do a better job in Final No Way Get your Fire challenge. Yeah. One thing before Bowen goes is can you describe, like how long does tribal council take? Oh? My, like at least a couple of hours, so it's not this like risk like we have the five questions that

we ask him, then go No Way. There's a lot that gets left on the cutting room floor. Of course, fell off and the final tribal this time it was raining the whole time. Yeah, that looks so bad, Sophy. What the hell was sick and dying? Was dying that you will also? But you didn't hear about that. Can we just say you list the hottest man alive like that, and he's kept it together and he doesn't age. I think it's probably he is kind of like roboted himself

from Facebook and Google and stuff. Yeah, good for him, well done, he's you. That's one of the great tragedies of winners of war for me, is Youle's elimination as well. Would have loved it to be Parverty and you will at the NT would have been anyway. Um So, now at this time, what we're gonna do is we're going to do Bowen yangs I don't think so, honey. And his time is going to start now, I don't think so, honey. The Queen Sandra Diaz Twine herself, How dare you pulled

the flag the second you get distinction. If your whole hang up is about everybody, the whole survivor community, being like she doesn't necessarily deserve her wins blah blah blah blah blah, then you have to make the case for yourself and for the community that you stick it out. Even if you don't earn a single fire token, at least you can say that you stayed for the entire run of the season. Okay, instead you're traveling the world buying the Is that real? Is that? Is that you? You?

You mentioned that? Okay, Sandra, I love you so much, You're you're a true I can, but that really disappointed me. You robbed us the viewership of more Sandra Diaz Twine television, and that's all you want. It's it's one of the culminations of the whole series that you are there with Rob, with Parvety, with Amber, with Tyson, you have you. You robbed us of quality television. And I love you forever,

but I will not forgive you for that transgression. And that's and I don't think so, honey on Sandrads Twine thief of our joy? Joe, my gosh, you guys, can you give some Sandra insight? What's what's your relationship with Sandra? Sandra and I we don't really have a relationship, don't That's great? She seems like it's wonderful. Okay, we're running. I don't have much to say about part but I could talk about Russell all the time. I hate him, and his wife hates him, and his kids hate him.

And when he and he goes home and he sits in his backyard and all he does block about Survivor. And I'm out here playing and continually winning queens. I'm sitting on my damn couch recording cameos for the world and making people happy, bringing the smile people's faces. What's Russell doing nothing? Russell can't even get on cameo girl. My cameos cost three hundred dollars each. Russell he can't get no fifteen dollar cameo everybody. I don't have much

to say about her. We don't have much of a relationship, but I respect her, queen. She's charging. She's charging a pretty penny for her cameo, So I respect that. I respect cameos. Guys. I'm like Cameo Mafia over here getting up all my Survivor people under my wing on cameo and I'm like, get coming. I'm on cameo and I just keep trying to get bone to get on, but they won't let me. NBC won't let NBCNL. I know

I would love to do it. Unfortunately, UM, the National Broadcasting Company has not allowed Bowen to get on CAMO. You're limiting your ability to interact with your fan base. Do this podcast and let us talk about any bullshit we want. So we should be thankful. Okay, all right, UM, worst party, thank you so much? Can you would you do what? I don't think so honey? Okay, guys, I was gonna do, and I don't think so honey about um moms like moms of twins on Instagram. Okay, okay, okay,

because you guys did survivor things. So I was like, oh do I need to do us? You don't know you can do? And the thing is like, just like I said to my sister, I said to follow your heart, and I said the same thing to you. Okay, alright, so we're going to set up the cloth. This is poverty, shallows. I don't think so, honey. Her time starts now. Oh my gosh, I'm so nervous. I don't think so, honey.

I mean these moms on Instagram, the ones to have like newborn babies who have their hair done, who have their makeup done, who are like ten pounds and like, O don't think so honey, you know that you just got vomited on. Your baby just shipped all over the wall, and you're cleaning up, and you just moved to a

different part of the house to take that video. And you know, I don't think so, honey, because your husband or whoever your Instagram husband or wife that's recording that video for you, they are so upset, they're so pissed, they're so sleep deppress. They're like, I don't think so, honey. You don't even like, are you for real? That is not even true. You're just shoveling cinnamon troast crunch in your mouth on okay, Like you're not cooking lasagna family

right now? I don't think so many well kind of cut, that's not a seconds You bought that in the frozen food section, pretending like you cooked that from scratch. Now you're showing us your pan and over the ingredients that you made. Think so howey? You know that as bull shit? Instagram Mom's found dead. Come on, stop making us look bad, truly,

And that's really the poison of Instagram, isn't it. You just log on and everyone says this is the perfect me, and you're like, oh gosh, and especially when you're like dealing with motherhood, which is the I would imagine the hardest thing in the world, so hard, and like you don't't even know what the heck you're doing for the first like six months to probably seventeen years, and you're just like, oh, well, I guess this is fine because

it's like you're I would imagine. I would imagine it's like you're pregnant, you give birth, and then it's like this human, little human is in front of you, and it's like, how do you hold it? What do you do? How do you living? Yeah, especially once that have an adventurous spirit. Oh my god, you guys. I wish I could bring her into this audio podcast because she would just reach wreck shop. She would. I am interested to see, like, in two years your daughter become poverty two point oh.

On Survivor season, Jeff's gonna start doing four seasons a year, and he's like, us quarantine, We'll just keep rolling him out. Survivor Sue Island Kids verse adults, Well, they did say sixteen year olds going to apply no. I saw that. I was like, oh my god, don't love no no, Because I like a good reward challenge. Where they get like little Champagne, a little Red Wild. I just want

I want my Survivor customs personally to be of age. Yeah, okay, So we just want to say that if you have a young one in your life and you're looking for something to I don't know, have them read the book is only Honor and you can get it on articulation books. And honestly, we just want to say thank you so much because, like I said, like we got into this during quarantine and truly survivor it really was like like a totem for me, you know what I mean, helped me.

It helped me like get through the early days of it, and like it was really fun to root for you and you're just your rock guys. Thank you, It's been really fun. I'm so impressed with your survivor knowledge. It's really beyond you know, and we know we know a few other things you actually entered them, but um, you're a very special person who uses your powers for good and we think that rocks. Thanks. I love you guys,

Thanks for hanging out. And here's actually the deal. Um, every episode of Las Coo Teresa's ends with a song. It's just live come oh, me And if you want to hear the rest of that, check out the album Butterfly by Mariah Carry You don't want it only