00:00 Phil Southerland
It's a game, right? Glucose management is a game. And the more you play the game, the better you're going to get. The more you play the game, the better, the more you're going to learn how to react. Let's try to look beyond ourselves as individuals and look, you know, who are our friends that could be struggling right now? Who are the family members that could be struggling right now? And try to, let's, we've got this addiction to activity. Let's try to spread it to more people.
00:22 Andres Preschel
There is only one supplement that I think almost everyone on this planet should be taking, and that's a full spectrum and highly bioavailable magnesium supplement. Because, well, let's face it, ever since the Industrial Revolution, our soil has been depleted of magnesium, and therefore our food is depleted of magnesium. And on top of that, our modern environments, which are inherently overstimulating and stressful, are constantly depleting our body of magnesium. And unlike other nutrients, this is not something that your body can produce on its own. It literally needs to get it from the diet. And one individual kind of magnesium alone is not enough. You actually need seven different kinds to support over 300 biochemical reactions that help regulate your nervous system, red blood cell production, energy production, managing stress and emotions, et cetera. And so the folks at Bioptimizers have made it very easy and convenient to add back in what the modern world leaves out. They've created magnesium breakthrough. Now, I've been taking this for the past two years, and the biggest benefits that I've seen are related to my evening wind down sessions and my sleep. I tend to be pretty overactive in the evenings, just totally overthinking everything that I do. And this has helped me wind down and get more restorative, more efficient sleep. So I wake up feeling way more refreshed, more energized, more clear, more ready for the day. And the way that I see it, sleep is upstream of essentially every other health and wellness related habit and decision. Because if you're sleeping better, automatically you're going to have more regular cravings. You're going to have higher insulin sensitivity. You can derive more of all these inputs like fitness, right? You make more gains, you gain more muscle, you burn more calories and you wake up feeling refreshed so you can do it again and again and again. And then beyond the fitness, you have more energy to go for a walk, to do fun activities with friends. You are less stressed so you can socialize anxiety free. And you're also going to be retaining, refreshing and refining your skills and information much, much better. So you won't forget any names. And yeah, I mean, like I said, over 300 chemical processes that you're supporting with magnesium. And sleep, I mean, wow, better sleep is just a better life in general. So I found it extremely helpful on a personal level and I'm sure that you guys will find it helpful to your mind and body and maybe even your spirit will thank you. So anyway, if you want to get a sweet little discount off of this amazing, amazing magnesium supplement from Bioptimizers, all you have to do is visit the show notes. So you scroll down right now, takes just a couple of seconds and boom, you'll have access to all seven different kinds of magnesium that your body needs. All you have to do is hit the link and use code KYP for know your physio. KYP. That's all. Enjoy 10 to 22 percent off depending on the package you choose, whether or not you subscribe. I'm obviously subscribed because I don't even want to think about whether or not I'm going to get this essential supplement in the mail. And yeah, hope you guys enjoy that awesome stuff. And that's all for now. I'll see you guys on the show. All right, so Phil, here we are finally. I've been spending the past few weeks, past couple of months planning this amazing episode. And in the meantime, I've had the chance to dive into some of your amazing work, your movie, your book. And I've also had the chance to dive deep on all things but glucose through your amazing platform with my high performance clients, everything from executives of Fortune 100 companies to some of the best tennis players in the world, a world series of poker finalists, LeMans, race car drivers. And what I love about Super Sapiens is that it's the most reliable platform, in my opinion, to showcase one of the number one proxies for all things health and performance and has helped me help other other folks to get their glucose to work for them and not against them, as is often the case with a lot of the guys, gals and aliens that live on this planet. So welcome to the show. And if we can start somewhere, why don't we start with why you do what you do?
04:54 Phil Southerland
No, Andres, first, great to be here. It was fun getting to know you just for the sake of helping some of your clients to begin and then hearing how you work and what you do and how many people you serve out there is awesome. This educational platform that you build with the podcast, it's, you know, it's thrilled to be here with you. So I look forward to diving really deep and then simplifying it so people can go out and achieve some targets. But why? I want to help people. Like I was given the gift of diabetes nearly 41 years ago. Everything that I've done to date was people told me I wouldn't be able to do or textbook said I wouldn't be able to do. And I think a lot of people face similar doubt doubters in their lives. And if you get a person to believe in themselves and then you give them tools for that will help them, that belief turn into reality in some goal or dream, then you've had a positive impact in someone else's life. And then that person is going to go have a positive impact in someone else's life. So, yeah, I mean, the most simplified version of your question is I like to help people. You know, and now through Team Ebonortis and through Super Saviour, I can help a lot of people at scale. And I'm just counting on the athlete mentality of when we feel that someone helped us, then we're going to go pay that forward to somebody else in the future. And let's change the world. That's what I want to do. When you get to help other people, do you think that in a way you're reflecting back on the help that you had or even wish you had earlier on in your journey? Yeah, I mean, look, it's I was raised by a single mom. I had a number of surrogate fathers, you know, just my baseball coaches or mentors or advisors who really filled voids in my life, people who gave me free clothing as a kid when I couldn't afford clothing or paid for my entry fees because I couldn't afford entry fees. And, you know, I just I got helped by a lot of people. And it doesn't take a lot. It takes 30 seconds to change someone's life. You know, I had a lot of doubters, but amongst the doubters that I had, I had a few key people who believed in me. And when you have someone who believes in you and then you achieve and they tell you what that means to have seen you achieve, you know, it's it's really fulfilling. It was meaningful. And to get to kind of, again, pay that forward. Just I know what it means on the other side. It's not doesn't take much of my time. It doesn't take much of my energy. And when I see some young kid achieve their dream selfishly, it makes me feel really good. I feel like I played a small role because I didn't do the work. I didn't take the time. They did everything. But if I could have played a half a percent and they're 100 percent success, then I feel like a winner. So I get to I get to win a lot these days by being a very small part of a lot of people's success around the world. And that's it is very fulfilling.
07:56 Andres Preschel
And what would you say is the most fulfilling thing about leading Team One?
08:05 Phil Southerland
So, you know, Team Type One, Team Evan Ortis now has spent the last 10 years is each year I was over in Italy last month at our talent ID camp. So I got to ride bikes with my 18 professional athletes who most of which I known since they were kids. Now they're, you know, married, they're having children. They've achieved a lot in their lives. And then seeing the young kids who are 16, 17, 18 coming into our program, trying out so they get a chance to be like those professionals and just seeing the joy it brings having that family environment of we're here to make a difference in people's lives. But we're going to do so by pursuing our own dreams. Yeah, those guys keep me young. I mean, I still sprint with them for the town signs, which I'm an old man. So I'm crafty on how I can win some town line sprints. But I got some young competitors who make it a little bit harder for me each year. So it's, you know, Team Evan Ortis is what I wish existed when I was growing up as a kid. You know, athletes with diabetes out there paving the way showing that you can compete against the very best because when I said I was going to be a bike racer, that's impossible. When I said I was going to be a, you know, go top 10 in national championships for diabetic athlete, that's not possible. I'm going to be a professional cyclist with diabetes. That's not possible. So, you know, fortunately, I was stubborn, right? And my mom's extremely stubborn. I, you know, she was adopted, so I'm sure her parents were extremely stubborn as well. And I was able to overcome those doubters and say, OK, you said I can't, so I'm going to prove you wrong. But for a lot of people that when you're told you can't, you know, that's an absolute. And the fact that we've removed that one absolute for anyone with diabetes in the world, no matter if you want to be a pro bike racer, you want to be a scientist, you want to be a podcast host or anything in between, you know, we've now proven you can. And I think at the end of the day, it's like if this existed when I was a kid, you know, it would have made a big impact in my life. And I know now for the parents of children who were just diagnosed diabetes, for the people who've had diabetes for a long time, they know they can. And hope is priceless, especially when you live with type one, type two diabetes. And mechanistically or physiologically, what's the criteria and the ammunition that the folks have said that you couldn't do this? Like what, why couldn't you do this years ago? Why did they bet against you? If you go back into the 80s, right, you know, diabetics were not supposed to compete in sport, right, because of the and mainly that was because of the science that showed, you know, it increased the risk of hypoglycemia. And hypoglycemia is the same for a person with and for a person without diabetes. And that it means you're going to fail and whatever you're doing now for an athlete without diabetes, you might go hypo during a competition or, you know, or a training ride. That'll be short term failure, but your body will react for a type one diabetic. There's the risk of hypoglycemia during activity and then your metabolism increases and the way the insulins were formulated back in the day, how they worked, when they worked, it wasn't so precise as it is today. So there was also the risk of hypoglycemia in the night and which would be, you know, create the dead in bed syndrome. And that was very real. So, you know, doctors didn't have any data because there had not been athletes, so they couldn't use data as a means to prescribe an exercise. And it was often safer. And you tell a person with type one diabetes, just sit on the couch. That's low risk, right? You might have higher glucose. It might be harder to control your glucose, but you're not going to have immediate death because of that sporting activity. So because of that mentality for, you know, from 1921 when insulin was invented up through really through team type one and when we came to the floor and proved what you could do, you know, it was just it was too risky for doctors to promote exercise. And so physiologically, you know, nothing really stopping us. And we've we've since published papers and we've published scientific journals proving that people with diabetes are in no way physiologically different than people without diabetes. I've got athletes with their VO2 maxes in the 80s. Average VO2 max of team no more risk is I think 70, 77. Some guys in the upper 80s, right? They're physiologically weird, exactly the same, but we have to micromanage our metabolism on an ongoing basis. So I think it was just it was the stigma that was associated with the disease at the time. And, you know, 12 of the 18 athletes on our first year of team mobile notice, you know, when they were diagnosed with diabetes, their doctors told them they will never race a bike again. That's that was the mentality of the health care professionals. Fortunately, a lot of us with type one diabetes are stubborn and some more than others. And so those 12 athletes who were told they can't went ahead and did it anyway. And they made their way to professional athletes. And, you know, nowadays, you know, we've got people who are applying to our talent ID camp from the hospital bed. And there's not a doctor in the world in the diabetes space now that doesn't know about team mobile notice. We've been present at every medical conference for the last 18 years, you know, having my athletes in spandex, you know, in the added booth in this, you know, novenour's booth, talking to physicians and tell them how we do things, helping them learn, you know, how to how to educate their patients on just going out there and pursuing a goal. Because if you're just controlling diabetes to control diabetes, you're going to burn out. Right. It's it's 300 decisions a day, every single day of their life and death. That's a lot of additional cognitive load that the non diabetic population is not aware of, at least they weren't until super sapiens came to be. But when you're controlling diabetes for the sake of a goal, right, I controlling diabetes because I want to be a good bike racer. I'm controlling diabetes because I want to be a good student. Then it's, you know, then there's a purpose to it and that purpose, you don't get burnt out from that purpose. So you get sustainable, good control over time just for the sake of having a sporting goal. And it doesn't have to be being a professional athlete. It could be, you know, I want to have a good day at the gym this afternoon, so I'm going to focus on diabetes control to go to the gym. The trick, though, and this is it's magic that applies to people with diabetes and people without diabetes is once you go to the jammer, once you do a bike rider, do a run, do some form of physical activity, your metabolic stability for the next 18 to 24 hours is much easier to manage and great, greatly improved. So once people with diabetes start controlling glucose to be good during activity, the unintended consequences, it's much easier to control glucose until the next activity. And so that kind of the success because to set success and it becomes addicting. And I know what's in that now in that transition to super savings, we see this with people without diabetes exercise for everyone. Disease, no disease. I so firmly believe it's the billion dollar drug that does not get prescribed enough. So I won't say it never gets prescribed because we're starting to prescribe it more. But if everyone got out there, if I together under us, if we prescribed that exercise, all of your listeners and they went out and did it, the metabolic health and longevity is going to pay off in dividends as a consequence.
15:44 Andres Preschel
And interestingly, because you guys built this platform with that intention early on and you set a standard in that sense, it's now something that anybody can appreciate to improve their performance, to prevent disease, to boost their longevity. And before I continue on that rabbit hole, my curiosity is in what was the early evidence that you had to really pursue this? Because maybe stubbornness is a prerequisite, right? When the world is against you. But what was the very early evidence that actually showed that this is possible?
16:18 Phil Southerland S
o let's clarify the question early evidence to show that I could be successful as an athlete or early evidence to show that glucose, there's a proxy for performance. That folks with type one diabetes could in fact perform at this level. So Gary All Jr. won Olympic gold medal in the 90s as a swimmer. And that was end of one. I guess there was my own personal performance. I mean, at 18 years old, I was eighth place at the Junior National Championships. My dream was to go to the Tour de France. And as I kept competing and skidding top 10s in professional races around the country, I could compete. And it was still a wow factor. People didn't understand it. But it was end of one. So it wasn't really until we had end of eight, an eight person all type one team racing across America that this became truly possible. And you saw it wasn't just an exception of one person with diabetes, but it was a team of people with diabetes. And once it became team, that it was real, that it was I can be a part of that team. And we've just we've done amazing things since. We I will say I've been privileged to be a part of the scientific community who's now really fast tracked the scientific evidence to educate doctors and health care professionals how to teach people diabetes to exercise safely. You know, when we talked about this, Professor Michael Riddell of York University, Canada, back in 2006, no one wanted to fund type one diabetes and exercise studies. You know, it was just it was too niche of a market, too small of a market. And we kept pounding on the doors, asking for money, asking for research. And then ultimately, I just paid for the research myself and started to get some publications. And then Mike started to get some publications. And the cool part is, is like I was at a diabetes conference in Berlin in February. The exercise sessions had a they were standing room only like 500 people in the room coming to hear, you know, Professor Mike Riddell, my good friend, you know, talk about how we can prescribe exercise. And we've now proven the exercise 30 minutes a day as a type one diabetic, you get a six percent improvement in time and range. You know, that's clinical evidence today. Meaning six percent improvement in time and range might not sound like a lot, but that's 84 minutes per day where you are in range now that you wouldn't have been if you didn't exercise. So think of that for a person without diabetes. All it takes is 30 minutes a day and you're going to have an improvement in metabolic health. You know, time and range for a type one diabetic is metabolic health for a person without diabetes. It's you know, we're so much more alike than we have ever thought of ever known before.
19:15 Andres Preschel
And that's where I think the advance of continuous glucose monitoring for the whole population is going to make a really big impact and health and longevity as we go forward. And interestingly, I've seen a lot of folks in the scientific community, in the nutrition community who will dismiss continuous glucose monitoring for anything to do with health for the average person, let's say, that maybe only diabetics should be, you know, tracking their glucose and anyone else. You know, all right, they're just wasting their time. It's that it's that it's that so insightful. What would you have to say to those folks?
19:48 Phil Southerland
I understand my chief science officer, Dr. Howard Zisser, who I tried to hire, you know, year one super sapiens is like, Phil, you know, look, I'm a pioneer. You know, I pioneered CGM and closed loop systems for type one diabetes, which are now on market. I pioneered CGM and telehealth working at Google for remote care using continuous glucose monitoring type two. Athletes without diabetes, their glucose is going to be between 90 to 100. Like, what's what? How could I improve? But then the data told a different story. Howard, you know, who's been a pioneer in the diabetes space for a bunch of years, has also been overweight for a bunch of years. And at the start of COVID, he said, Phil, I've always been like, Howard, exercise. Come on. You're a leader in this space. Let's go. Let's get it. Keep moving. I can help more people than if I just help. It's not important to help myself. Then at the start of COVID, he said, I want to help myself. So, Phil, will you be my coach? Yeah, sure. OK, what I need to do is get a sensor and get a bike. OK, how far I need to ride? Is it 30 minutes a day, five days a week? If you want to go more, go more. How fast doesn't matter. Just do 30 minutes a day, five days a week. So over the next nine months, Howard, you know, lowered his average glucose 30 milligrams per deciliter. Essentially reversing his onset of type 2 diabetes. He lost 45 pounds and he became an athlete, right? At least in his own head. And on top of that, we had now years worth of data of professional athletes, amateur athletes using continuous glucose monitoring and seeing people who can run a marathon without diabetes with a glucose above 200. Seeing other people without diabetes in the middle of the night after trainings would have glucose in the low 60s, mid 50s because they didn't recover well and how that was disturbing sleep. And most importantly, we did a Canyon Sram training camp. And if you look at these nine athletes over eight days of training and there's swath of data points, it's just like you took paint and threw it against a whiteboard. There was nothing consistent. And, you know, so I presented this data to him. He goes, This is different than everything they teach in the medical textbooks. This is different than anything I learned in medical school. This is different than anything I've seen published in any journal in my entire career. There is a chance to pioneer here. And so, again, based on the textbooks, based on what has been taught for hundreds of years about human physiology, the people are saying what they think is right. But I now have over a billion data points of people without diabetes. There is an opportunity for everyone to improve their glycemic control. And it's a different way per who you are as a person, per the speed of your metabolism, per what your goal is. It could be weight loss. It could be going faster. It could be I want to have a better night's sleep. It could be I have a very important meeting and I want to ensure cognitive improvement. I want to ensure cognitive function is at my peak for the next one hour. Whatever that goal is, you as an individual can optimize your glucose. And people without diabetes are in a lot more control of their metabolism than had ever been thought before. And people without diabetes have a lot more glucose variability than anyone had ever thought possible before. So they're not bad people who say that there's no business here. There's no case here. They're just misinformed. And that's why education is at the forefront of what we do at SuperSavians. Just like it was it and it has been at Team Up and Otis. We have to educate about what reality is, what's possible, and what you can do to control for it and provide the data. So scientific publications are critical because if it's not published in peer review journals, then it could just be magic fairy dust. It's taken a couple of years, but we're finally starting to get our publications out in the world. And I think the benefits are going to be we're going to get a chance to rewrite the textbooks. And not many people in their careers get to say that.
24:01 Andres Preschel
And that's also a motivating factor for me. And in order for us to take this evidence-based approach to higher performance, cognition, longevity, disease prevention based on our glucose data, what's the minimum effective dose in terms of a prescription? Like how long do you have to wear this if you just want to get enough insights about your typical training nutrition to feel really good and more empowered by the habits that you've built with that information?
24:29 Phil Southerland
Good question. We see sustainable behavior change come after six weeks on sensor. So the biggest improvements come out in the first sensor where people, whoa, this did this to my body. I don't need to eat that.
24:45 Andres Preschel
Can I interrupt you for just a second? I want to second this. I want to emphasize this because it shocks me that the high performers that I work with, they see this and they've never seen anything like it before. And they are they actually genuinely are shocked. And I'm talking like people that are already at the top one percent, top point, oh, oh, one percent of what they do. And it's like you look at their glucose and it's just wholly out of control. And they are so shocked. And I'm just like, hey, look, I feel good about my role because I know that I can help them and I can help them feel even better and simultaneously invest in other areas of their life and other areas of their health that would otherwise be neglected with this super, super valuable and tangible information. So I just quickly want to jump in and emphasize that point.
25:34 Phil Southerland
I mean, it's some of it's just it's so simple. One guy I know in Austria, he's like, yeah, I always knew coke was bad for you. I mean, we because I knew it, but I still drank three, four cokes a day. And then that I was wearing super sapiens and I saw my glucose go up to 200 with a coke. And then I saw the impending insulin response and the crash that came from it. I was able to associate the bad feeling I had with that crash, say, oh, I don't need this in my life. Now, I live in Atlanta, Georgia, the home of Coca-Cola. So I'm not going to say don't drink coke, but maybe you want to drink coke at the end of your exercise or drink coke during your exercise so that you can have your cake and eat it, too, so to speak. And so you can you'll see some like easy victories in the first two weeks. This I've got one couple, some investors of ours who are both record good, very good recreational athletes. You know, one is in the 60s, one is in the 70s. One of them, when they rice, the glucose goes up. The other is flat. The other when they eat potatoes, glucose goes up and the other is flat. So you get to find out, you know, even if you're eating healthy foods, which healthy foods are the most healthy for you? If you're eating bad foods, like which bad foods are the most unhealthy for you from a glucose response perspective? But how how you know, I still learn things. Right. It's I've been on a sensor for 18 years and I've had two sensors on my arm for the last four years constantly. And I still learn new things every day. And so as the metabolism changes, the speed of your metabolism changes, as the stress in your life changes, how your body responds to the things that you put in it is also going to change. And so it's not so much about like what happens to my glucose, but what do you need to do to mitigate that spike? So if your glucose is going up, you know, what do I need to do to try to get it down as smoothly and quickly as possible? Is it drink a bunch of water? Is it go on a walk? I mean, ironically, I've had diabetes for 41 years and it wasn't until I heard anecdotally from our customers that, yeah, when my glucose is 140, I go on a 15 minute walk and it comes down to 100. Now, I used to get back from meals and my glucose would be 150, 160. I'd give more insulin and that causes my glucose to drop. I started going on 20 minute walks and I go from 160 back to back to normal because the insulin I'd injected during the meal was going to go down. I'd give more insulin and that's how I got my glucose to drop. I started going on 20 minute walks and I go from 160 back to back to normal because the insulin I'd injected during the meal then kind of gets supercharged a little bit. So that's funny. Like it's really helped me as a person who's been a master of metabolism, at least a master of my own metabolism for many, many, many years. I've got to learn a lot from people without diabetes. If I didn't train yesterday and I go to work out today, my glucose is going to go up. I don't need food for about two hours typically. But if I did a decent training ride or run yesterday and I go out to exercise today, I need to have some carbohydrates before I go out to get the spike on. I need to eat within the first 30 minutes because my metabolism has moved. If I've done two days in a row, then it's a different algorithm for how much I fuel. Speaking of that's my glucose alarm. So a different algorithm for how much I fuel and how much I pre-fuel so that I'm in optimal glucose range for training. And so it's, you know, and then we've seen things like Bobby Julek, George Hincapie and another recreational friend of mine, Jeff Brown, run a bike race together. And their average glucose for a four hour race was 172, 178, 179. Relatively similar. The difference for the first three hours was, you know, some went more up and down, some were more flat. But the one consistency amongst all three was at the three hour mark, all their glucose started going down. Meaning, was it their liver glycogen that was now, excuse me, their muscle glycogen that was now empty? Were they not having as much access to liver glycogen? Did they not eat enough in an hour or two? And like, wait a second, because I normally get a spike at about two and a half hours in. And I used to give insulin at that time. And so I thought, hmm, because then I'd get a big crash at three hours. And typically from three to three and a half hours, I'd eat 60 grams of carbs, which that's not fun on the stomach to eat 60 grams of carbs, especially three hours in an endurance event. So what I what I started doing was I at two and a half hours, my glucose would go up. I just let it ride. And maybe I'd go into 220, 240 milligrams per deciliter. But sure enough, right at three hours, the glucose would start to come down. And because I learned from people without diabetes, I don't need insulin at two and a half hours because at three hours, my metabolism is going to speed up and my muscles are going to start being hungry for that fuel. You know, it's it's been priceless for me. But anyhow, we're all different. You know, what you do, what works for you is different than what works for me. And ultimately, it's a game, right? Glucose management is a game. And the more you play the game, the better you're going to get. The more you play the game, the better, more you're going to learn how to react. And, you know, I think once you understand the language of glucose, which, again, it's incumbent on us as a company, on the scientific community to teach and to make sure that we're not going to be a community to teach and to make that teaching easy to understand for all. We're not we're not there yet, but we're we're improving and we're learning a lot. Once you understand this language, you'll realize you need one of these. You know, you need you need the sensor on your arm 24 7 because you always have a chance to be a little bit better. And, you know, if you take five chances a day to be a little bit better that you see today, you know, you compound that interest day over day, over day, over day, over day. You know, think of the gains you can make versus five chances a day that you didn't seize because you didn't have the data compound that declining interest over time.
31:58 Andres Preschel
You know, the Data is quite significant. So, you know, that's that's my pitch to the value of the technology, part of it at least. Yeah. I mean, you guys have one of the most insightful platforms that I've ever seen that really allow really catered to gamifying this experience and in motivating even marginal behavior and nutrition changes and decision making that helps that optimizes for performance. And curiously, what alarm just went off? What kind of glucose alarm just went off and why did it go off?
32:30 Phil Southerland
So this is my Libre3. That's my diabetes sensor. This is LibreSense, my super sapient sensor. I can both produce my adult laboratories and, you know, this was my high alarm going off. So I was, you know, so 10 minutes late today because I had a meeting run long. I was trying to get some lunch. And here we are. One hour later, I didn't give enough insulin for my food and it started to creep upwards. I gave four units for the meal at about one or excuse me, twelve fifty five. I gave another two units in the first 20 minutes of the call. And, you know, I'm now one sixty four with an arrow turning up, you know, in the next ten minutes, I'll decide if I hit one seventy five, I'll probably give another two units, which means by the end of our discussion, I'll be back to normal. We could pause and I could go take a walk and I get there a lot faster. But I'm here to talk with you and so we can keep this game going as the call goes on. But five more milligrams and I've got more insulin on board and let's go.
33:32 Andres Preschel
That's amazing. That's amazing. And you know what is I've noticed that when I'm in a conversation and I'm doing a lot of mouth breathing inevitably, right, because you're speaking with your mouth, that all of a sudden my glucose levels will rise and my HRV will fall. So it's nice now that I get the chance to talk that you get the chance to nasal breathe diaphragmatically, pausing between inhale and exhale. You start to, I guess, interestingly, it's like I was about to get to the point that I was about to make the point that your platform is such a great way to cross reference with other tests, other health tests, and I'll get to that in a second. But I've seen how modifying my breathing impacts my stress response and as such helps lower the glucose response. So I've helped a lot of people enable breath work by looking at the blood glucose when they're stressed and breath is the most accessible way to influence your physiology. So if you start nasal breathing using the belly or the diaphragm and therefore it innervating the vagus nerve for more parasympathetic activity, you pause slightly between inhale and exhale, you create that cardio inhibitory response, all of a sudden you're going to start to improve your blood glucose levels. And another really, really cool and exciting cross reference. And by the way, I measure this also. I've also measured things like HRV and heart rate and everything just falls in line. So, so, so nicely. Another really, really good cross reference is food sensitivity testing. I have people that, you know, are eating all these, you know, amazing foods, but it's like they don't know that it's harming them because let's say they don't have the necessary gut microbiota to process it or they have some kind of sensitivity. And so when they eat these foods, it can be something as simple as broccoli. It can be something that seems healthy. But if you have a sensitivity and it creates a state of stress in your body, that cortisol spike gets your liver to pump out glucose. And now all of a sudden that food indirectly gives you a glucose spike. So I've done a bunch of, you know, food sensitivity testing and then I cross-referenced it with this. And now people have my clients have all the evidence they need to, you know, counterbalance that effect. I don't know if you saw it while you were telling me this, but we'll see what the numbers say now because I've just been doing the nasal breathing, pausing. Yeah. I'm going to put this into practice going forward just to just to test and see how it works for me. Absolutely. And something else that could be helpful is because I know you're, you know, you're a high level decision maker. You're a leader. You're a professional and you're always trying to find unique ways, even subtle ways to improve your body's stress response to, you know, balance your glucose. Another really, really, really good platforming device that I use is this Apollo neuro device, which resonates at what's called a bioidentical frequency. So it vibrates and it innervates your nervous system. And you can actually select it into different, you know, it's like different modes. So right now I have it on a focus mode, but you can put it on a recovery mode, on a meditative mode, on a sleep mode. This is actually developed in a clinical setting for folks with depression, anxiety, PTSD. But the researchers started using it themselves because it's amazing benefits. Eventually the investors start to use it and now it's widely accessible to the public. It's super, super, super effective and it trains your nervous system. So over time, you actually become less and less dependent on it. In a way, it kind of shows you what's possible and then you can readily access that state. So it's like great for improving your HRV over time, really just reflects improvements in your autonomic nervous system. So just wanted to, you know, drop that in here in case it could be helpful.
37:19 Phil Southerland
And, you know, when you asked, what was that beep? I was 164 going up. I breathed cautiously for a couple of minutes and now I'm 161 flat. So we now have data that, you know, breathing is faster than insulin.
37:32 Andres Preschel
Yeah, I mean, absolutely. So, and again, the combination of these platforms has helped me guide a lot of these high performers. You know, so something as simple as breath work before a serve in tennis or right before or even during a business meeting, which is like a nice little secret weapon. If you think about it like it, you're not going to pop pills during a meeting or, you know, go for a walk like you can modify a breathing. No one knows. And you're regulating your physiology to be the most effective communicator decision maker leader that you need to be. And boom, you have all the evidence to support that now your glucose is working for you not against you. By the way, I want to get your take on something. I tend to describe this glucose response to stress from an evolutionary perspective in that, you know, we spent millions of years as a species that when we endured stress, typically it was life threatening and our bodies are designed to help us run away from that stressor, whether it was a predator or some extreme weather, some kind of catastrophe. And so glucose gets pumped out and into our bloodstream. And now we have the fuel we need to effectively run away, except nowadays the responsibility and the danger that we face, we face it head on while we're sitting down. So the glucose is kind of lingers there. So it's like that alone, I think, is sufficient and incentivizing movement around stress. But I want to get your take on that evolved response. What are some of your thoughts and how do you think you can maybe add some further incentive to get people to move before, during or after stress?
39:01 Phil Southerland
Makes plenty of sense. Right. And when people are going to go out on a really hard run, like if I go out on an easy bike ride, my glucose is going to stay relatively stable. But if I go hard right off the bat, my glucose is going to shoot up. Same with anyone really, because the body knows where the amount of glucose it needs in the system. And it does a really good job of getting it there. Some people respond differently to stress than others. So like Bobby Julik on our team, when he gets in the car with his wife, he can have a stable glucose of 80 when he straps the seatbelt in. Within 12 minutes, his glucose is above 200 because she drives like a bat out of hell. That's his, you know, like I'm going to die. Like I better hold on and protect myself. But other people don't have that response to stress. So again, that response is individualized. You know, and you can see, are you someone who like, you know, think for an athlete who's got to take that shot, you know, shot at the very end of a game? Like, are they going to have a big glucose response, which if you haven't utilized that glucose, then insulin is going to produce and you're going to crash. You know, what's the counterintuitive? So how to manage all this, whether it's breathing or other techniques that you as an individual have to help optimize, I think are really important. Now, when it comes to using activity, I think me personally, one of the highest stress points I put on my body is Mexican food. And I love Mexican food. I've got like data point after data point after data point that says this is bad for me. Like this will be, you know, I'm at 159 flat right now. It's just that's too high for me. Like I really like I'd rather eat 10 grams of gummies and 30 minutes because I gave a little too much insulin than hover around 160. But I know that let's say my normal Mexican meal, if I add it at lunchtime, I need about four injections, 22 units of insulin for that meal. If I go on a two hour bike ride in the morning, I only need five units of insulin to get back to normal. So if you know you have a very stressful scenario coming up in your daytime, you know, or you're going to have a stressful situation like a big meeting at 12 o'clock or big whatever it might be. Let's get your metabolism firing because you might have that stress response and glucose might go up. But if your muscles are there and they're hungry, then they're going to absorb it back in quickly for to for fuel rather than your body responding with insulin and then causing a rapid crash, which creates a call. It's a reactive hypoglycemia. And I don't care who you are. If you have a reactive hypoglycemia, that's a moment of weakness that you're going to have in your day. And your body as a non diabetic will correct for it with glucagon, which released the liver glycogen. But you're still going to have 15, 20 minutes of cognitive weakness or physical weakness with that reactive hypo. Now, maybe you didn't get exercise in the morning and you have that stressful meeting and you're sitting at the computer and glucose is going up. You know, take a break, just go walk for 10 to 15 minutes and again, let your muscles take in that that that glucose for fuel. Because if you don't, your body's going to produce insulin and that fuel in your bloodstream is going to get converted to fat. Right. And it's probably like it's the cortisol that causes the brown fat in the stomach area. Well, if you don't use the fuel that's in your bloodstream, it's going to get converted to fat eventually. So find little ways to just ensure you prioritize some form of activity throughout the day. And like I'm a middle aged man now, I put on a number if I have to for race situations, but I tend not to consider myself a participation athlete. I can still go fast if I need to. But what I found is best for me metabolically is I need to stay active six days a week and I prefer seven. Now, some days I run, some days I ride. You know, I try to do some light, not light gym work, but I'll do 20 minutes of weights, probably five days a week now. And having these kind of different stressors to the muscular and cardiovascular system makes glycemic control much, much easier the rest of the time. So, you know, back to exercises, what's going to help at all. If you know something, stress is going to come, just reiterate, try to try to do some activity in the morning. That's going to help with that N equals one situation. But if you want to be better prepared for stress on an ongoing basis, exercise every day, right? Because it's one, it clears the head from the past stress and two, it prepares the body for the next stress. I just think it is such an important tool for performance in life, is activity.
44:00 Andres Preschel
Absolutely. And it's like it, once you start to track your glucose and especially with a platform like yours that is just so insightful, you all of a sudden gain agency in the underlying game of like biological chess that's happening. And like you can be very strategic about what you're going to do, when and how to win every single time. And interestingly, you know, you mentioned how the exercise isn't only good in the morning before a stressful day, but in general, it's good. And if I can just add my two cents here, it's like all of these sort of stressors, these hormetic stressors like exercise or fasting, cold exposure, even sauna. You want to dose those appropriately so that you can build that stress response and that reflects in things like your HRV. So if I can give a quick analogy here, it's like imagine you take a yogi in a deep meditative state, eyes closed, lotus pose, hands at the heart, and all of a sudden a lion appears. And this yogi has to quickly snap out of it, get up, run away and deal with that stress. And then all of a sudden, these zookeepers come, they put the lion in a cage and the yogi is asked to return to the meditative state. So yogi that has really good autonomic nervous system control can very effectively deal with stress. And then once the stress is gone, they can return to baseline effectively of yogi or an individual with poor autonomic nervous system control. Stress happens. They don't know how to deal with it. They just kind of sit there like what's happening. And then even once the stress is gone, they're still kind of hanging on to it. And I think we can extrapolate this to HRV and to glucose and show how they're interlinked in the sense that if you don't have the awareness and therefore the management of your blood glucose, it can work against you. And if you don't have the awareness management of things like your autonomic nervous system control, it'll work against you and it'll continue to keep you in this state of danger. And if you can optimize the two, then all of a sudden you're in a great position. You're optimizing for all things health, performance, longevity. And on top of that, you are practicing stress response through things like exercise, cold exposure, fasting and heat exposure, sauna, steam room, etc. You're practicing stress response in an environment where you have control over that stressor, where you can dose it appropriately. Like if you're taking a cold shower, you can immediately step out. And that helps you for the unplanned stress business meeting, dealing with loved ones in a difficult time, being in a race environment. So it's like if you can do these things when the stress is planned, you can effectively track your metrics, make sense of them. Then all of a sudden when things are unplanned and up in the air and all full surprises, your body is prepared to engage and to work for you, not against you.
47:00 Phil Southerland
I fully agree. It's not that again, is the beautiful thing about sport and training is that we suffer when we do it. We're a little maniacal, a little twisted in the brain. If you've been an endurance athlete for many, many years and people say, why? I say, well, it's suffering that has a beginning point and it's got a known end point. Right. And once you have that, that like the bookends, then you can analyze how to try to make those what's in between the bookends better. But it's it finishes. And once it finishes, it doesn't matter how much mental stress went into, do I really need to go out train today? I don't want to. But no matter how much you did not want to do it beforehand, the moment you're out there, you feel better. And when you get done, you feel exponentially better. And it's just exercise is not the only health pillar in life and like continuous glucose monitoring. It's not you don't just put one of these on and then everything in your life gets better. Right. It's it's the little pieces. And so I'm the big believer that it's like there's activity, there's nutrition, there's sleep, mental health. Yeah. Well, those are for my perspective. And is there are the four pillars of health in society? No, but there's one that I think really stands at the center of this exercise, because when you're active, you typically eat better because you want to feel better in your exercise. When you're active and you eat better, you typically sleep better because you got more glucose stability overnight, which is a new thing that we've been cracking lately. And when you're active and you're eating better and you're sleeping better, then mental health is going to be through the roof. And mental health is important. It's been under looked for a long time. And as a CEO, entrepreneur of a startup company, like my mental health has been put to the test this year. And I'll say if I did not have like some exercise goals in my life, I might have broken this year. But I was able, to your point, right, to go say I'm going to go suffer for a period of time. And I worked out so much of the stress of my life when I was on my bike or out running at odd hours of the day because that was the only time I had. And exercise and activity got me through one of the darkest periods I've had as an individual in my life. And I'm at the other side of it now. I feel great. And everything's going to work out just the way I want it to. Little twist or turn here or there. But without exercise, who knows where we'd be right now as a company. And I don't know where I would be as a person right now. So I just would strongly encourage. I know your listeners, the people who are following you are the ones who are out there and active on a regular basis. And that's great. Like I want to applaud all of you. But let's try to look beyond ourselves as individuals and look who are our friends that could be struggling right now. Who are the family members that could be struggling right now? And try to let's we've got this addiction to activity. Let's try to spread it to more people. And like we said at the beginning of this show, like, yeah, I feel good when I help somebody. We can all help some person get active. And as that person's life changes over the next nine months, you get to say, I was the tipping point. I pushed that small speck of snow and look at the snowball turning now. You will feel a sense of pride and reward for that person's success. And who knows the positive implications you could have on their life from a health perspective. But more importantly, from a mental health perspective, it's I think it's one of the best drugs possible when it comes to stand strong in the head.
50:33 Andres Preschel
That's wonderfully said, Phil. And I will add I will second this by saying that if you do exercise with the people that you care about, it's a win-win across the board. And it works synergistically in the sense that you have a much higher endorphin response, which keeps you coming back, makes it addicting to exercise. And because you have folks there that are literally there to have your back, you go harder than ever before. There's a really great book by Kelly McGonigal. She has a PhD in psychology from Stanford. She's a professor there. And she has one of the most amazing, I think it's the most downloaded TED talk of all time. It's called Making Stress Your Friend. And she wrote this book called The Joy of Movement, where she describes how group exercise, group activity is so good for so many reasons. And again, going back to the evolutionary perspective, we're designed to suffer together. And one of these endorphins is oxytocin. And so it's actually when you're in a stress state, you create this human connection and that has a cardio protective effect. So we can combine to it and combine exercise with social. We get the best of both worlds. We improve our stress response. We improve our glucose response. We improve our HRV. We get fitter than ever before. We're safer than ever before because now people have our back and we keep showing up. We keep coming back. And then let's face it, that has a domino effect. If you can inspire someone, you're not only helping them, you're helping their inner circles and those inner circles, inner circles. And I think that's the greatest gift that we can give anybody else is a domino effect of joy, happiness and a long, healthy life. Yeah, man, I really appreciate you sharing that with us and sharing, well, being vulnerable enough to tell us that this has been a difficult time, but that you have shown up for yourself to be the leader you need to be for this community and for this movement. Let me ask something. If you could put a message up on a billboard, what would it say and where would you put it? It can be a word. It can be a phrase. It can be a sentence. But imagine someone just driving on by. They see this and hopefully it makes a difference in their life.
52:31 Phil Southerland
Dream big and get moving to accomplish it. No matter what. And dream big has so many different possibilities. It could be I want to see my grandkids grow up one day. That's a massive dream. I want to be a good role model for my children. That's a massive dream. I want to win Wimbledon. That's a massive dream. No matter what these dreams are, without movement, none of them are going to come true. So dream big and get moving towards the dream. We can all be the best of ourselves. Right. Everyone has that power as an individual to be the best version of you. And I think realizing that you want to achieve something and then taking the action needed towards that goal, towards that dream, it's going to be really personally rewarding. And it doesn't have to be big. It doesn't have to be massive. It doesn't have to be newsworthy. It's got to mean something to you. It would mean something in your heart and you worked for it and you try your best to make it come true. Then life's about the journey, not the destination. Right. And let's just make it the most exciting and meaningful journey that we have time for. Thank you for sharing that. And is there anything in the incoming horizon for SuperSapiens that you want to share with our listeners? Yeah. So we got some exciting things coming up. You know, we've got a US on the horizon. Finally, I now know when we're coming. It'll be public when I can make it public. But America, we're coming, which I'm super excited about. For European clientele, we've got things like an Apple Watch integration. We've been testing that. It's going to go live hopefully middle of August. We've got a daily score coming out, which will be it's one thing to see all this glucose data. Right. But how do I what actions can I take? So we want to help people understand how they did yesterday and what are a couple small behavior changes they can make today to get a better metabolic response. I will say just for those of you who might be using this, there's one way to hack the system and it's go out and exercise because I don't care what kind of activity we do. But if you exercise and it's going to help your SuperSapiens score be higher, because that's a win for my consumers. Be active. That's my goal on a daily basis. Be active. That's what I want for all our consumers to be active and feel better doing so. So those are a few of the big things coming. I mean, I probably make them sound small, but coming to America for a company like ours is really big. It's the biggest market. We've learned a lot in Europe. Excited to bring those learnings, education here, and then bringing it to the Apple Watch consumers and the daily score to help people get more out of the system faster. Understand the language of glucose. It's pretty cool. We've got some pilots going on, whether Formula One, thanks to you, with Bianca in the tennis world. You're playing with one of the top football clubs in the world now, working really closely with them. It's fun for me to see that people are now understanding this mythical subject that I brought up a few years back of glucose and its importance. And now people are learning from it. They're using it. They're getting success. It's slowly spreading. So, yeah, it's been an exciting journey so far. The destination will be where it's going to be. But until then, the journey continues.
56:07 Andres Preschel
Amazing, man. And I have one more fun anecdote here for us that, by the way, when I say anecdote, even though that's at the bottom of the total pool of research, I think it's a way to showcase and bring to life what a lot of the real research support, the systematic reviews that we speak on behalf of. But this is a really fun little anecdote. And it's that I had the chance to introduce the first time I ever came across your platform was I had a client who was a very high performing, very successful CEO here in the U.S. Who was also an elite cyclist. And he had a buddy that somehow managed to get the Super Sammy's device on his Garvin computer while he was out cycling. And it was like a cheat code, man. I think for a lot of cyclists, once you get a cycling computer and you can see, let's say, your cadence and your heart rate, that's a cheat code in its own right. But once you add the glucose layer, now you're really pushing it. And so it was a mission to at least to get him set up here in the U.S. Since you guys were strictly in Europe. But once he had access to that man, oh my God, the PRs just came flying in. And now it's like almost I'm super excited for you guys to come to the U.S. But it's unfortunate for this gentleman because all his buddies are going to start catching up to him now.
57:34 Phil Southerland
Yeah, it is a it's been a blessing in the disguise for my own personal journey, because now all my friends are getting past her. Right. Because it's like I want to like anybody's I mentioned, you know, he were on a five hour ride and he's like, this is before he could get it on his on his Garmin and problem. He's like, I'm feeling I'm not feeling good. I'm just going to sit on for a while. It's like. What's your glucose? And then he pulls this this app out this phone on like I'm one forty five and I'm flat. I was like, man, you're you're not bonking. You're just mentally weak. And I said, come on, you got gas in the tank. Let's go. And just the knowledge that he had the glucose was all he needed to go to the front and start rotating for the next hour of the ride. Right. And but on the flip side, I've seen like him when his glucose is in the 90s with an arrow turning down and he goes from a very stable position to a you see you see probably you would know more than anyone about the breath changes with the glucose. Right. And all of a sudden, breathing becomes uneasy. The body moves in a little different fashion. For me, it's super exciting. I wish I could do. Yeah, I'm not a better like I don't do any sports betting whatsoever. But if I did, you know, understand how glucose response, I can see when riders are about to ball when I watch the Tour de France, I can see when someone's about to crack because their breathing changes. That's not changing because of the output. It's changing because the glucose, I mean, they're all tied together. Right. There's nothing wrong with that. But I mean, talk to me about that because you you've talked about, you know, HRV and glucose response and vice versa. Like, what is your perception on just kind of the importance of one with the other? How did it how do they correlate from your own use one perspective?
59:22 Andres Preschel
Well, in a way, and I'm sort of I'm not totally speculating here. But if you notice that someone is calm, they're focused on their sport, their nasal breathing, you have a relaxed breathing, you know, you're not really doing anything. And all of a sudden they start like, you know, hyperventilating. I think that's that's almost a built in mechanism of stress that helps pump out the little glucose that they have left in the tank. You know what I mean? Because when you start hyperventilating, you create a stress response that pumps out more from the liver and through gluconeogenesis to break down your muscle fiber, your, you know, anything other than glucose and converted to glucose. That's gluconeogenesis. So it's like you need cortisol to promote that process. You literally needed to promote that process. And so it's like they are compensating for a lack of glucose as a valuable substrate in this case. And yeah, I mean, it's unbelievable how being in a stress state can exacerbate that response, how it can lead to all kinds of poor decision making. So it's like once you have this sort of backbone, this evidence based backbone, you can then develop the necessary interoception or that kind of visceral, that deep bodily awareness. And then when you notice certain signs and symptoms during sport or even living everyday life, you can give your body what it needs to perform and to feel good. So I think that's another thing that I want to emphasize here that we've kind of brushed on throughout this conversation. But it's like this is so valuable, not just when you're using the platform and the device, but it's also really valuable in helping you harness interoception, a deep bodily awareness. And when you get those two to link up, all of a sudden, you're like, it's like being fitted to a bike. It's like I always tell my friends that have a regular bike. I'm like, you don't know what it's like to be fitted to your bike. You're like one machine. Everything that you do on that bike translates like 100 percent. And you're like one machine. So it's like if you can use the glucose and the metrics as a backbone, then you have total control over your physiology. And the things that you feel all of a sudden can incentivize the decisions that you make to get you feeling even better, performing even higher. But yeah, I mean, I'd have to look at the individual sport and the player and tell you and maybe give you some more specific feedback. But I do think that hyperventilation is almost like a way to compensate for a lack of substrate or you could even see certain breathing patterns when you are hyperglycemic, when you've had too much. You know, there's a number of different reasons and situations that I can maybe provide some specific insight on. But generally speaking, yeah.
01:02:03 Phil Southerland
I'm curious now that you've got me doing a lot more nose breathing on the call than I normally would on a call. But I'm curious because people talk about yoga before bed and how that leads to a good night's sleep. And we've been starting to see now or at least in the past year or year and a half, I've been really hyper focused on sleep. We see that a lot of people don't feel appropriately. They have more variability in the night leads to poor quality of quality night's sleep. You know, a lot of athletes like the Norwegians, Blomendal Gustaf Heden. Oh, you help you super sapiens for fueling while you're on the bike or out in training. Actually, the biggest thing for them was eliminating nighttime hyperglycemia. I'm curious as to like, could this nighttime read and exercise just before bed really help you to get to a point of stability? Because if you go to bed and you have a nice stable glucose, 90 to 100, that's a broad stroke term. Yeah, everyone's got their own individual happy place. But if you go to bed 90 to 100, you can be stable through the night. You're going to get a great night's sleep versus 80 going up or 110 going down. You're going to it's guaranteed you're going to have a disrupted night of sleep. So I'm going to my CSO Howard is in a house today. So I'm going to see him and talk to him about potential sleep study regards to breathing techniques. And can we it's one thing to say better glucose overnight, you'll have better sleep. But how can we help people get the better glucose overnight?
01:03:34 Andres Preschel
Yeah, there's a number of different ways that you can accomplish that. And I'm happy to have further conversations and see if maybe that's insightful for you guys. But I think so, you know how you mentioned your four pillars. My four pillars to health, you know, sleep, nutrition, movement in mind. I kind of tackle them in that order. For me, sleep is like the foundation of everything else, just simply because well, for a number of reasons. But I would say generally because it helps regulate the nervous system. And if you have better sleep, better recovery, repair, they're able to restore, then all of a sudden you have your automatically making better decisions about your nutrition. You have better cravings or regular cravings, choosing the right foods. You have higher sensitivity. And then if you're sleeping right and recovering well and you're eating right, fitness comes easy. And if you're sleeping right, you know, you're eating right, you're you're moving right, then your mind is suddenly in a good place. That's that's how I that's how I approach it. I mean, we're totally different. Our secret sauce tastes similar, but it's not the same. Yeah. Yeah. So I would say that, yeah, I mean, I'm really big on regulating the nervous system before bed and there's very accessible ways to do so. One of the most accessible is through the breath. Also having an earlier meal, because again, you have less of that glycemic variability. The body can really just focus on sleep because digestion is such a taxing process. I mean, by taxing, I don't mean to add a negative, you know, I don't mean from like a negative lens. But what I mean is like it just requires so much energy and focus for your body to digest food. And so if you're eating late, it might make you sleepy because you have, you know, this increase in tryptophan and serotonin melatonin. But it's not going to give you deep restorative sleep because your body is going to be preoccupied in a sense by the digestion. Another really helpful thing, by the way, that pairs nicely with that and is kind of thinking in the same perspective is, believe it or not, taking a very powerful exogenous ketone supplement like ketone aid, which almost guarantees a deep state of ketosis. So for a lot of these athletes that I work with, they're high performers, or if you're traveling and all of a sudden you see this big shift in your nutrition or you have to eat late, taking a very, very potent exogenous ketone supplement will do a few things. Number one is, all right, put some ketosis and stabilize your blood glucose. But in addition to that, if you ever measure something like your RQ, respiratory quotient, you'll notice that when you're in ketosis, it shifts. And that actually allows you to afford less breaths per minute, and therefore you're in a deeper parasympathetic state. So I can do a whole podcast on just that, honestly. But in a way, it's like it does two things. It helps stabilize your blood glucose and it helps regulate your nervous system. I think there's also some research that points to ketones being almost like an adaptogen as well. I think I spoke to Ben Greenfield about that recently, so maybe in a future episode we'll dive into that. The breath is huge. Yoga before bed is also big because you do a lot of breathing and movement-based breathing. And in Sivasana, the corpse pose at the end of the yoga session, there is a lot of GABA-urgic activity. So it's a very calming neurotransmitter that your body produces. And in a way, it's almost like compensating for the effort. So it's like a really nice endorphin response, a GABA-urgic response that tends to be really good for sleep. And so when you pair these together, when you pair breathing and regulating nervous system, being in a ketogenic state, whether it's by eating earlier or adding in ketones or finding some other means of established ketosis and doing something like yoga, yeah, you're going to get much, much nicer sleep. And I have a whole…
01:07:06 Phil Southerland
Yeah. Listen, really interesting, the ketones. I have experimented this past year with exogenous ketones during exercise. And I think the response is phenomenal and the feeling as well. But I've not played with them before sleep. So I'm going to try this.
01:07:19 Andres Preschel
Oh my gosh. Like, I'll tell you something. Do you monitor your nighttime biometrics? I mean, no. No. Okay. Well, you don't have to because you're going to feel the difference. You should feel a difference. But if you track with like a whoop or an aura or a bio strap, you'll notice when you take these ketones, your HRV, your heart variability, explodes. It just absolutely explodes. It's insane. Like, I think this is one of my favorite supplements for so many reasons. It's like really effective for endurance sport. It's really effective for mental cognitive performance. So like, for example, before a long podcast or if I have back to back meetings and I just want steady, steady flow and focus and to conserve my glucose, I'll take the ketones. But I accidentally took it before bed one time. And my biometrics, my HRV went up to like a 150 average overnight. And typically I'm like a 110, 120, which is already high. It exploded. And so I use it now for more efficient sleep sessions if I ever if I don't have enough time to get the hours that I need. So if I ever need if I only have time for like six hours one day or even four and a half hours, which is extremely rare, I take the ketones. It puts me in a deep parasympathetic state. And my sleep is all of a sudden more efficient. And I've actually this has been such a tremendous discovery that now I'm in a conversation with Gerwin Mollinger, who is a PhD out of Duke. He runs the cardiorespiratory lab and he's obsessed with ketonade. And he's actually now publishing some research studies on ketones and ketonade. And I'm going to be collaborating with him to experiment with this in with UFC athletes and all things recovery. So I'll have a lot more valuable insight and research for you maybe in our next conversation in a few months. But it is a very, very exciting and it pairs lessee with everything that you guys do. So it's definitely something to explore and to make further conversation about.
01:09:18 Phil Southerland
Yeah, awesome. I mean, I travel overseas, you know, very at minimum every six weeks, which is, you know, it's a five or six hour night sleep at best. So I'm going to I'm going to try ketones on my next overseas flight and give it a test because if I can wake up fresh when I land, it just makes such a difference in how those first few days on the ground in your barn. It's I'm not young. I've got family now. So my time over there is focused. It's like I'm there for as little as possible. I'm back home as quick as possible. I need to be affected and sleep for the cognitive aspect is one of the very, very highest priorities that I have as a human.
01:09:54 Andres Preschel
I'm going to send you a it's not released yet to the public, but I have a it's almost 100 page and we tried to keep those clear concise, but it's like a hundred page document that we created. I know your physio that helps you master your sleep. I'm going to send this to you. I would love to get some of your feedback. And I know that it's going to help you sleep better tonight. I guarantee it. And the next thing that I wanted to ask here, believe it or not, most of the Tour de France cycling teams actually use ketone aid. And back before this became popular, it was extremely expensive to produce. And there's actually a video I forget what kind of who the cyclist was very, very famous cyclist. He had a bottle of this on his bike and he accidentally dropped it and it spilled everywhere. He was so upset and it's a clear liquid. So it looks like water and everyone was confused. They're like, why is this guy so pissed off? He can just grab another water bottle. At the time, it was like a five thousand dollar bottle of ketones. So like nowadays it's more accessible. It's still kind of expensive. Like you'll get three vials typically in a pack and it's a couple of dollars per sip or per dose. But, dude, that stuff goes it goes a very long way. It makes a huge difference.
01:11:06 Phil Southerland
For sure. You know, it's like it's interesting because type one diabetics, you know, you don't produce ketones. Because you're on you've got exogenous insulin on board all the time, which completely kills the ketone production. So Professor, a friend of mine, Mike Riddell out of York University in Canada, if you tried an SGLT2, which it's a class of drugs typically prescribed to people type 2 diabetes. And I said, no, he goes, you got to try it. It's a game changer and it causes a production increase in the ketone production. So I went from zero point zero millimoles of ketones to get on SGLT2 to typically between point four and point six throughout the day. And, you know, I lost weight. My perform better. I felt better. You know, it was just a complete game changer. So I started that's when I started paying attention to ketones and like really understood the power that they have. It's like you just got glucose. You just got a gas engine going. But if you got glucose and ketones, it's like you've got gas and electric, you're more of a hybrid engine, which allows you to use the gas when you need to use the gas and then go more on kind of autopilot when it's OK to go on autopilot. So then you throw in the power to use the exogenous ketones. It's like, you know, I did some miracle bike rides that I should never have been able to do. And my buddies like how did you they knew how bad of shape I was in this last year, not this year, fortunately. And how did you get through that? I'm like, I took the Delta G, you know, and I was fortunate. I bought him first and I ran into Seb Pritchard, who's the CEO of Delta G and Kona last year, the Ironman thing. And he just sent me a bunch of them. So I'm like, I've been ketone out for a good while now. And it's if you haven't tried it, try it. It's you'll get your money's worth.
01:13:00 Andres Preschel
Yeah. And you're going to feel better and go faster for sure. Well, clearly we have a lot more conversation to do and exciting research to dig into. And I know I won't be conscious of your time and I have to get going as well. But so this has been absolutely amazing.
01:13:15 Phil Southerland
Yeah, one more for you, Andreas. So we just talked about it's got to be in peer review journals, right, to to to be valid. And so just this week, last end of last week, we had a publication on kind of what is it? It's in the European Journal of Sport Sciences about pre-exercise food ingestion and reactive hypoglycemia. And so what we found over 6800 research subjects are kind of observational data amongst our users. The worst time to eat before activity is like 23 minutes before exercise to 90 minutes before exercise. If you eat carbohydrates in that window of time, you're going to have most likely going to have reactive hypoglycemia at the start of activity. So, you know, it's just insulin will be in the system, as you pointed out. It's a stress response for the body. Your body is going to produce insulin to get you back to normal. Well, if any of that insulin is still on board, once you start exercising, your insulin gets supercharged. You're going to go low and you're not going to feel good. So I'm looking at the chart right now and I can send you the paper after just so you have the journal to read. But it's 23 minutes to 90 minutes is the worst time to eat before exercise. It's been an absolute honor and a pleasure, my man. Yeah, thank you so much. I had high expect knowing you. I had high expectations coming in, but it wildly surpassed them. So I hope you do this again and uncovered the next round of gems for the listeners and the readers out there in the future. Now and in the future.
01:14:45 Andres Preschel
Thank you. I'm honored. Thank you so much, man. Cheers. So that's all for today's show. Thank you so much for tuning in today for all of the show notes, including clickable links to anything and everything that we discussed today, everything from discount codes to videos, to research articles, books, tips, tricks, techniques. And of course, to learn more about the guest on today's episode, all you have to do is head to my website on dress, preshell.com. That's A.N.D.R.E.S.P.R.E.S.C.H.E.L.D.com and go to podcasts. You can also leave your feedback, questions and suggestions for future episodes, future guests, so on and so forth. Thanks again for tuning in and I'll see you on the next one. Have a lovely rest of your day.