“It’s About Tom” with Kevin Nealon

is comedian and SNL alum Kevin Nealon. You'll be shocked to hear who he identifies with. Let's get into it. I'm so freaget excited right now. I can't even I've been like thinking in my head. But the first time I was in say to you and um, so I love First of all, I love you, and I was just thinking, like, what are we we? How do we

define our relationship? Like Kevin was on so nice to do that like gift talk show practice, and then I called you about stand up and then we did just be And I feel like if best friends are a ten and people who don't know each other are zero? What are we? Well, honestly, I have a lot of respect for you. I have a lot of respect for

you because how just how complete you are. You're just you're such a business woman, you're a great actress, um, you're you're a fun person to be with, beautiful, and so i'd say we're like, I don't know, maybe you're well because we don't hang out all the time, I'd say maybe we're set a point nine. Jesus Christ, you're like me. You don't have that ment. You have few people that you like, really dig. That's why you said that.

I like that. Well that's pretty good. Yeah, well no, then I might invite you to my and the next time I have a birthday party, which happens like every decade. I'm now I'm putting on it's about it's actually never well, I have to be totally transparent. I don't watch a lot of TV. I've never seen a Bachelor, I've never seen any of that Housewives set for my wife and h and I watched it the episode they sent me, and I was watching here for the first time. I'm going, okay,

I see what you're doing here. Okay, okay, maybe there's something improblem going on, you know, maybe they're kind of steering it one way, and it was really interesting to watch the dynamics of it. Well. I it's funny because when I was talking to my partners at I Heart, they wanted you know, and I think initially when I talked to my fiance about the idea, they thought like, should be Housewives fans, And I'm like, there's so much

of that. And while there are some Housewives fans like Elizabeth Muss is a fan of some so there is absolutely no um no, one has to have seen the housewivestort, and so I like that because it's fresh. You're just jumping into this thing. But you could tell from one episode, not on like a soap opera or tele novella, that like one episode you could be hooked and you can understand where all the dynamics and who the characters are or do you not feel like that? Yeah, no, no,

that's totally true. I watched it twice. Actually I watched I watched the episode twice. The first time I watched it, and I was I was kind of like learning each character's name and thinking, Okay, I know Bethany, but I don't know any of these other people. Um, okay, she's

the one that got cheated on, you know. And then I, um, you know, I was almost like I had to watch it again to really like watch it and forget about who's who and knowing you and then really finding out the meat of what's going on the way you have to go back and watch Game of Thrones again. Oh yeah, totally. I could watch Game of Thrones again and not know what's happening exactly. That's exactly me. It's so many right, okay, So, and I have never seen this since back then when

it aired. I only watched something once we get sent the video or sent the link the week before it airs, and I will watch it then and but just some inside scoop. But I just realized now from a business television perspective, I had left the show after three seasons, four three seasons, and they had three new people come on and during uh the time that I left, the ratings declined significantly. They went from like three million to one point six. And this these were the episodes that

that they spiked back up to three millions. So these are like iconic episodes. I mean, this was when everybody a Bravo was high fiving each other. So this is like I set you like a good Meadi one. Um, and because you're married, I thought you'd find it, you know, just interesting. The dynamic of do they want to know? I mean, you live in l A, you live in you know, suburbia, and like there's a world of people

who just don't want to know. And this is the That was that lightbulb moment when I realized, wait a second, not usually, not that early in a relationship. Did I think that that I realized as a concept for financial reasons, for you know, wanting to hide your head under the covers, for for public perception reasons, there are just many people who don't want to know. What percentage do you think of people would not want to know that their their fiance is having a fooling around them or or or

spouse Yeah or spouse. Um, that's a good question. Um, I would say the percentage would probably be maybe I wouldn't want to know. Would you want to know? I would want to know? I would, But I will tell you something I relate mostly with Luanne. Wow. Yeah, And I'll tell you why. Because I had a girlfriend cheated on me and I took her back. I thought, okay, that was just you know, one time deal. Um, I didn't know the phrase wants to cheat or a year. And so I took her back that soon in like that,

like how soon into the relationship. Well, first I discovered the emails. You know, I wasn't even looking. It's fact when sometimes you share the same email, or you had a couple of different emails, and um, and I came across her communication with a guy and I literally got sick to my stomach because I totally trusted her. I never even thought of this. I never imagined that this would ever happen, and and it did happen. And I confronted her about it, which was not easy because I

knew our relationship would never be the same again. It would never be the same even if you don't think we worked things out. You know, I could forgive her, but not forget it. So I took her back to it like Luan wanted to do. Luan was like rationalizing and giving him, you know, all this whole reason why he did. He was drunk and never happened in and you know, and so that's what I did with her. You know, I thought, well, maybe I haven't been that,

you know, attentive enough tension. So we got back together, and within a month I discovered she was seeing him again, and I took her back again, totally win. And and then you know, of course, my trust is waning even more than I never did. And and I said, and I even, uh, I even called the guy, and I'm you know, I hate confrontation, I hate it so much, but this one I had to do. And he never answered the phone, never answered the phone. I left a message,

and then finally going I called him. He didn't answer. I said, you better pick up the phone now, or maybe I should call your wife Hello, Hello. And I have had this speech prepared for so long, but I was gonna say to him, um, But he never picked up the phone, and I kind of forgot the speech. And then I was overwhelmed how much anger I had toward him. I just I just started swearing to the phone, you know, I just kept swearing and swearing. He's actually

started chuckling anyway. So I gave my wife one more my girlfriend one more chance. I was before you slipped, uh, and and about I don't know. A month later, I saw tickets where she had rendezvous with him, you know. And and then I came home and I found a book in her purse that was all yellow highlighted, and it was a book like I'm breaking up, you know. Oh yeah, so um yeah, and then it was over. Well, it's interesting that you brought up you thought you weren't

paying enough attention, etcetera. Because I think that infidelity is not black and white. I would assume that in certain situations, if someone is really treating someone like shit. I know people in certain situations where I know the reasons why they're staying together and they're not. They're more logical, and in some ways it's such a complicated situation that I I think, I don't know what you're supposed to do. Maybe maybe you are supposed to have your own thing going.

If that person is going to do what they're doing, maybe you are like, I don't. I don't think it's that black and white in this case. But so it's funny what you said about you thinking maybe it was you not giving up attention, because I do think that that does exist in relationships. There's not there's never there's always some gray. But I also think, um, she was at a low point in her life now you know as it plays out years later, And I was what it sounded like you might have been at a different

place in your life. And I wonder if cheaters seek out people who tolerate it on any level. Like I can tell you right now that if I held someone's hand for a second and kiss them on the cheek, he would literally never speak to me again. I'm not I'm not even he's not a real jealous guy. He just it's just he's a more like morality code. Here's the line, here's not the line. And he's not the guy that would ever comment on the way another woman

looks or even look the other direction. He's very sort of like poised in that and just very formal and like chivalrous. So yeah, he gives out what he expects. He's not it's not like he's a guy who's like, wow, she's hot or look. He just wouldn't accept it whatsoever. So I wonder if people attract people who kind of would be lenients on that, Because if she knew that you would never tolerated, do you think she would even have done it? And do you think that Tom definitely

knew that Lom would come back. I think I don't think he took the relationship seriously. Well, you have to assume that no one will tolerated, you know that you got to go off of that base right there. And you know, I know some people who have that open relationship, but they don't want to know that their partner was with somebody else. Just don't tell me, right and yeah, yes, And I know a lot of gay relationships like that too. And you know what, that's a different story, but that's

an unspoken agreement that I get. Like, that's a different everyone's allow to live their own life with the rated divorce. Well, she even asked me one time, she said, you would you like to bring someone else into this relationship? What do you think about that? I said, now, what are you talking about? You know? Or would you like to be with so and so? In front of hers, kind of like baiting me, Yes, I want to be with you,

you know. But you know, here's the thing. I was with her her many years, and Luanne was only you know, dating this guy for four weeks before she got engaged. That's why it's different than you. That's why I thought it was surprising that you related to her. That's why it's different because also there's a woman at a certain age in New York City with a bunch of barracudas

all competing for the same men. And I feel like women, you know, men, women are like they could smell like blood in the water men when you know, women desperate to grab a guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well you know, as as they said in the episode, it's guys looking for rich women women, you know, the Upper east Side. That's what I thought. And how about you know, guess what this guy makes more than she does. Okay, you know, yeah,

that shoots down your theory about that. Well oh well yeah, Also, um, I don't know guys now men now want a woman with their own program. They're not looking to pay for some of dental bills like I've just found that overall. I've even I know some wealthy guys though that are dating women who have their own career, and you know, the women are paying for a lot of the things. I think that men are kind of the days of men kind of just wanting to pay for every single

thing that those days are over. My fiance's old fashioned in that way too. He doesn't matter what it is. He would never allow me to pay for anything, which is glorious. Don't get me wrong, but that's not that that's that's sort of archaic in ways to people. I get it's too because I'm like that too. I'm just uh. And there's a certain guilt that comes along with you cheat, Like if you were out with friends, you always want to pick up the check at the restaurant because you

think I'm guilty because I make so much money. You know I should have it, you know, because you you know you you google the net Worth dinner. Okay, I'm making the mosk. I'm gonna have to pick up the chech. You looked up their house, the real estate taxes and value that it's increased since I'm Zillo, all right, So it's about Tom. And now here's the thing. I was

not close friends of Luan at that time. There are moments that we've had more closeness, but at that time, like you could see, it looked like a drawing room comedy with two different groups of you know, trios to two groups of women. And I was not on the Luan group, in the Luan group at that time, so it was weird for me to have this piece of information.

And like I said in the episode, And thank god I had all that information because I remember later and I don't know I would have been a great detective and a great lawyer. I just I am so thorough with details. But I remember playing the chess and my mind when So I have a friend who lives we're not even friends anymore, but we were never good friends. It's a girl that I know. I've known her since college. And sometimes you when I'm in the summer in the Hampton's,

you run into certain people. You'll beach walk with people and you become sort of more summer friends, and then you don't really see them during the year, you know what I mean. They're like summer friends, so um, and it's just filler. It's like, let's take a walk on the beach. It's a body to go take a walk on the beach with. That's the person you've known since college.

Check so this person just for some reason, um. You know, some people watch these shows and it annoys them because these shows are often very superficial and don't tell the truth about people's like to your point net worth, or a person's renting a car and they really don't have it, or the husband's cheating and they're pretending on television. So some people, you know, if you're honest about everything, it's fine,

and if you don't say anything, it's fine. But when you go on television and whether you're Theresa from Jersey paying with hundreds of thousands of dollars of cash, when you know your husband's stealing or you don't have it like that, it annoys people. And I get that it's kind of a lot of part of cancel culture. People who get pulled down are the people that are like going on and on about how nice they are, all

that they have. So I believe that this girl was irritating her because she knew the behind the scenes of this guy Tom. She had friends who had dated him, and it was like crazy to her. He was cheating on lu Anne with her friends and he was just a dog. So seeing this on television about Prince Tom,

I think annoyed her. So she happened to be at the Regency, which is this Upper east side watering hole that all these rich, you know, nouveaux reche douche bags go to, and she happened her her friend was there that night and got the and took that picture and sent it to me two days before we were going to fly to go to Lunne's engagement party, which was in an episode prior that I did not go to. So she sends it to me, and I'm on this show and I'm like, what the funk am I going

to do with this information? It's not my best friend and it's not my enemy. It's like right in the middle. So I'm like what And I'm on this show and um, and in the previous episode, I'm asking Luanne like, are you guys monogamous? Because I'm thinking maybe Kevin neil and

said maybe they have an arrangement. So that's what I'm giving you that I walked into this thing with not knowing when to say it, and um, the producers wanted me to drop it the second we got there, and I like, I just didn't want to ruin the whole weekend, and I didn't know when to say it. And I had all my facts because I knew that she would say like no, you know, and that he would deny it like she had to have him corner, So I had all my adit. I had a time stamp on

that ship. So Kevin, what do you think about how I handled it honestly. All in, I'm gonna be totally honest with you. Yeah. First of all, I don't think there's a time stamp on a cell phone picture, is there. There's a way to go into the data. I don't remember who found it from me, but there's a way to go in and find out when the page doesn't No, it's not like just there, but you could go dig into the data and find out when it was. Because

I wanted to have those receipts. It could have been three years ago, and I called the hotel to make sure because I needed that information to You did total thorough research, which was good. Before you start accusing somebody, Well, here's what I thought, um, when I first started watching the show, I saw how upset you were and under the covers, and then Lunn comes in, she doesn't seem as upset as you do, and I'm thinking, what who

who got cheated up? It looks like Matthani's boyfriend cheated on her, saying because Lunn doesn't seem that upset, you know, because because she doesn't want to believe it, I guess. And so you dropped the bomb on her when you did and again you still see more more upset than she was because you didn't know what to do, and you know what a blow that would be by telling her.

And um, and then I started thinking, Yeah, if you're a good friend, do you tell your friend that someone is cheating on you because it will change their life. I mean, it's it's better to know sooner than later, I guess. But then you start thinking, what if they get back together. It's like when you when somebody's breaking up and they're asking about you know, your their spouse

or their boyfriend or girl friends. You go, yeah, you can't say I never liked her him, I never liked because then if what happens get back together again, you know, then then you're like cut off from them. Well, an interesting thing that I'm going to say, because the show is about me really like giving the behind the scenes of what really goes down and the dynamic of being on a show like this. So let's I'm gonna be totally totally honest. So this is why friendships and family

relationships do not work on these shows. If people are good friends right now, it's because they're on the shows at the same time. Um, It's not like Survivor where you can make a true alliance. I guess I haven't been on that show. But my point is, you're on this show. You're not great friends with Luan. You're not not friends with Luan. If you're on the phone with your best if this is your best friend you're on the show with. Now you're just telling your best friend

off camera and what on camera? We're going to the party and we're all pretending everything's okay, and I'm never gonna tell the show the world what's really going on, when then it's all a ruse that I'm compromising myself on this show too, that I agreed to, like go onto,

and it's an unwritten rule. Robot doesn't call you and be like, hey, listen, if your friend's husband's you know, cheating his taxes, you kind of have to say because you think you're not gonna say it, but you're gonna say, like everything comes out, which is why it's a toxic environment, because it's very gotcha. You're always in some corner. It's a zero sum game. You're either getting fucked or someone else is getting fucked. It's just never the middle. There's

sometimes you're coasting for a second. But it's just like you're that loser in the middle of the Apprentice season that like it's just playing under the radar and everyone realizes, like you have to be in or or you know. So that's the problem with the show. This is a real serious issue with a woman whose fiance cheated on her, but she brought this fiance onto the show as perfect. He had already dated and slept with Sonja, he had dated Ramona. It's a fucking joke. And now you're in this.

So are we now going to pretend this is all serious when this guy's dated three other housewives, But here we're gonna pretend we're on like real life privacy. That's why the whole thing is all mucked up and muddled as a concept for like reality. Did that make any sense? Yeah? Yeah, I mean you know, I think you know, Louie could have gone to Sonia or son you could have warned

her and said he's a player. He's a player. And by the way, you said, you've never been on survival, But I think that the Real Housewives is just like Survival. Everyone's trying to survive exactly exactly. Here's here's what I think could have been an option for a year. Care for you is you go up to Tom and say, Tom,

you I don't that you cheated on Lune. Now you eat go up to her and admitt it and be honest with her and trying to do whenever you can to salvage the relationship or I'm gonna go tell her, and would have been. We were leaving for the trip the next day. Everybody was leaving for the trip in Florida and in housewives Land, they want to get it

out now that they wanted me to say it. Friday, the second islanded and we waited a lot of it got pregnant the whole weekend through which is on previous episode. This was like a three episode arc of a shitty little trip in Florida. People go to Morocco and don't get the meat out of the Like we could have gone to se Caucus and had a three episode arc, you know what I mean. Like they've spent all this money to go to and where the New York is the queen of shitty trips that deliver, and I'm part

of those shitty trips. We go to like always go to cheesy Miami and like a cheapo Mexican trip. Other people are going to Bali like we always are, like on the low. Yeah. So this was a three episode arc, and it would have been I would have said to the producers to your point, that would have been great. I'm staying. Called Tom he has to shoot. He'd call away and be like, they want me to shoot? Why? And she'd be like, why are you guys shooting? I want to be like, I can't imagine that would have

been The producers would be too lazy for that. But that's a superb idea. I should have waited all weekend and then. But they like things to bust out like a pinata on the trips as you saw later the pinata. Yeah yeah, but I like, that's a thank you for coming into this prepared, Kevin. That was a very good That's I didn't even think of that, Okay, oh yeah, I'm like Elizabeth Mosty, I didn't realize how much resources would I haven't take night courses on this two. You

could do a side she already asked. Right after she did, she asked she could do it again like she love you guys could do a side podcast on it, like you could do behind the scenes of the behind the scenes up after Dark Waves. I watched the interview when I said, uh, like I dropped this bomb, but like I want to I want to go back on my merry way, like I okay, get out of my like I told you, like I did what I was supposed

to do. I told I don't want to be like in this now with you in the room, like with you and Tom and the thing. You know, this is the quintessential shoot the messenger. Is this not oh totally totally. It's putting the blame of the wrong with the person. You know, it's it's the blame should be on Tom. Yet she puts it on you again. She's deflecting because she doesn't want to believe that Tom would have an affair. I mean, look at all excuses she had. Well it's

not timestamp. How do we know what data this was? And how do we know you know, is that really calm? And this could have been like a year ago. Right now, I'm defending myself. Right now, I'm defending myself and now you and then you you bathing that guilt for a long time. But you know, maybe you shouldn't have told her, and you know, you know, like I said, I thought you were the one who got dumped from the beginning,

who got cheat that's crazy from your perspective. Let's hear about the characters, like your first instinct about each character and how how they responded, how they reacted, and what you thought of them. Well, you know, I know that that is that is a strategy, as some people happen to.

Can't help it, you know, when you know, when you're you feel horrible, and then they start talking about how they got cheated on, and all of a sudden it becomes about them, right right, So and I find myself doing that too, the only because I don't know how to, you know, console somebody who's had a tragedy in their life, like somebody said, uh, oh, you know my my parents died and I feel horrid about it. I love them

so much. Yeah, I remember why parents died. I am you know, I still feel like right here and you know, all of a sudden, it's all about you. And I think that was her Ramona's you know, unknowing strategy. Yeah.

I don't even know if that's an incorrect strategy, because you know, I think it does make someone feel better that someone else has cheated on after twenty five years, you know publicly and that it's so funny how page six comes up so many times in the show too, like it's gonna be you had to hear about it on page six. You know, it's not even the near post. No, right, did you think that Luam was overly focused on the court of public opinion? Yeah, this is around that's interesting

to me around town. Yeah, it's get around. Everybody knows it's around the city. But ultimately she didn't care. She ended up marrying Tom. Right, She ended up marrying Tom and ended up divorcing Tom shortly thereafter. I was the you know, here's the thing. It happened again later before they got married. I was always the most vocal one on the show in general, there was a girl, Um,

you were the most vocal one about. But about like there was years ago, there was this woman that I was like, no, she's not okay, Like it's not she's not, I kept saying. And I felt like I was on Three's company and I was in the other room, and like things were happening that no one could see, and then everyone, you know, cut to the other room and all the crazy stuff that happened. But no one saw. It was like the tree fell and no one heard it.

So with this sometimes it will take several seasons, like in life, several years where you've said something and then you get vindication. It could be and in you know a parent in law that thinks the son shouldn't marry someone. They see the writing on the wall, and you're screaming, you're jumping up and down. And I guess that's a question. How does everybody have to learn for themselves because it

seems like a long, expensive, exhausting lesson. How do you really convey to someone that there are a d going down the wrong road, like there was no doubt in my mind. There's other scenes months and years later, Mee saying to her, No, this guy's a bad guy. No, don't do this. Yeah, well, that's that's the peril you put yourself into. If you start taking sides and then they get together. What kind of relationship can you have

with that person? Again, if I found out that three significant people in my life I felt the same way about somebody, I think I would listen, that's my problem. Yeah, I never had that in my In my marriage, it was only one person that thought significantly that like that it was a mistake and somebody else who didn't mention until later. So I guess people have to subtly mention it so we can get this map going. Three people

have to say it. Yeah. My wife is my most significant person in my life, and if I come up with a joke for my end up, I'll run it by her. And I mean, I think it's a really great joke. We should go. I don't know. And then in my head I'm thinking, you'll see, I'll show you I got stage, and I do it and sometimes it gets a laugh, other times it doesn't. I'll come back on that. You're right, You're right, that's so funny. Right, you did it with three people. Three people thought it

wasn't funny. There's no way it's actually funny, that's right. And why do I even ask her if I'm not going to listen to her, you know, And I think, oh, well, I'm the comedian. I've had over forty years of experience on the stage. What do you know? Well, how did she add over forty years experience laughing the audience? Probably more than that? Yeah, Um, that's interesting though. Yeah, And also yeah, but you're probably delivering it differently to her?

Do you deliver your jokes differently to her than you do want? So we were very dry anyway, Like meaning, what's how do you deliver a joke of sam where you're going to do it on stage to your wife at home? Well, first of all, this joke comes out of nowhere at home, it's just like, hey, you want to hear listen to my stage. I have a long build up to it. They get my style and I think already, and they assume that this joke is supposed to be funny sometimes and they're just laughing because they

used to laughing. You think they said this must be funny because you know the other stuff was funny, right, right, you should have sex in the middle of sex. Just tell your wife a joke like a build up and then you see it like it's it's a plant lands better right? And then if you're having sex like out of the blue, um, and she doesn't like you, go, well, you know, we didn't have sex st yesterday, so how could exactly that's exactly? Yeah, exactly, that's really funny. It's exactly.

That was good. That's why you get paid the big box, haven't it? Um? Okay, So now we're at the pinata party, um rest of all moving for the ten dollars worth of moving towards the pinyada. That was actually I had to say, I thought that was a very good idea for desperate women, you know, desperate women that live on the Upper east Side. Yeah, and so for wealthy desperate women.

You know, I was proud of myself to put like some jewelry in the middle, like the you know, the degradation of having to like go through TUTSI rolls to get a bracelet. You know likes it lets. It's Florida. You make up you can only have one each or something you know, you only have to each. I made up. But yeah, I just made up because I know, because I know, because Ramona, I knew she would go grabbing it.

In fact, off camera, Ramona there was another pair of earrings that I knew hadn't been found, and I was like, where's that pair of earrings? And Ramona was hoarding an extra item from she took. You have no idea she took from someone else and she lost a shoe. I mean, it was hysterical. So I'm surprised that I I didn't hit each other with the up sticks. I know that should have happened. In fact, um, it's the finales when they try to piece everything together. Did um, do you like

my hair better long or short? I liked it short. I did too. I was shocked at that particular episode. I didn't mind it short. I might have to do it again. I I don't have a good in my mind. I have a bad memory it. But in that episode it felt pretty like sharp and sleep. But by the way, by the way, if you I've learned this, if you're let's say I have a girlfriend or whomever, and this happened. That girl I was telling about. She came home one day and her hair was almost like a you know,

it's almost looked like mine right now. She cut that short. And you know that means they are ready for change. They want to change in their lives. Let may start with the hair. Oh interesting, Okay, that's funny. That's one analysis of it. Anyway, I like it. At that time when I got that haircut, I was ready for change. That's very interesting. It was a moment um. Also, my my my jump suit was inappropriately revealing and my boob

was popping up. But I thought, yeah, yeah, I noticed that the most provocatiately dressed at that party, and of like my whole housewife's career, I've never worn something like that. I just look like I like it. I nailed it, but it was it was almost the wheels were almost coming off, yeah the way, Yeah, the wheels were coming out.

So Jules, they're divorced now, nasty, nasty divorce. Louanne and Tom divorced now, Ramona divorced from the guy that cheated on her, and sonja Um divorced from a Morgan like a grandson of JP Morgan. So uh. And Carol still friends with but not with that younger man that she was with on that like a little step and repeat. Oh, I was going through a gnarly like a gnarly decade long,

decade long on a two year marriage divorce. And I when they said that the divorce was over, it was funny because I thought to myself, it was only really recently, just over. But at that point it was legally custody wise and monetarily over. But I went back in for custody and it's been it was a decade long nightmare, nightmare. So at that point that was like one gauntlet I had gotten through. I don't even think guy had gotten through the custody portion. I think that was just a

financial portion. So what a nightmare? One nightmare? Divorces a nightmare. There's nothing that compares to it, Like it's just a nightmare, especially if you have a kid. To your point about the people that you know that you were wondering if they should get married, Um, fundamental differences are very critical in a relationship, Like meaning, Paul, my fiancee likes to go to bed very early, and it's actually a good influence on me because it makes me go to bed earlier.

My body, you know, stays away longer than his. But he's like tired early and he's real, you know, mellow energy and I'm obviously not. But that is not something I call fundamental. That's more like habitual. Fundamental is like the things you find funny, like who you are as a person, your goal set, you know, your vibe with family, or like having guests at your house, like are you a person with the party all the time or you

in homebody? Like religion, you know, culture. So I feel fundamental differences are massive in in relationship, and I want to know what you think about that. Well, I totally agree with you. My my wife was a better early too. Um, when I'm more laid back, I'll go to bed early, just so we have that companionship, and then i'll get up. I'll get up with Jesus sleep, and I'll get a lot of work done and do the things I want to do. But but yeah, I mean, I I agree.

There's a lot of things that are that you need to have in common. You know, I was a vegetarian when I met my wife, and she wasn't. She was from the South, so that would be a fundamental right going to better early as a habit, and I would call being a vegetarian and then someone who loves animals and hunting, that would be a fundamental difference. I want

to hear about that, right, right. And I never pressed on her to change, and but she just saw the way eight and she saw it was healthier, and she changed on her own. You know, I was never somebody who was telling anybody wanted to eat. But also I think, and I've been telling people this that if you want to have a good marriage, I find that if you um from the same background, if you've had a good relationship with your family, and they haven't. There's a lot

of issues there. There's a lot of issues and so you know, I always ask people when they're about to get married, and so you guys, you guys both like your your family and your parents. And somebody will say, oh I hate my mother, I hate and then the other person I love. My mind, you know what I think good look absolutely, and you know, or something you

have to really work on. It's true, like my challenges in my childhood, um, or something I really have to work on and intervene in in a relationship with someone whose parents have been married for over fifty years, you know. Um, but there are these It's funny, like we are true, true to the core homebodies. We will venture out sometimes and do things and I'll do it. It's always if I have to do it for work. There's literally there's almost literally no exception. Um. Those types of things come

up all the time. Like if I've been in relationship to people that want to go out all the time and want to go out and big groups all the time and go on group vacations all the time, and it's it's like asking a dog to be a cat for me. You kind of you know, what I mean, you want to, you want to be able to. You can be opposite, but it has to be that the person can really be who they who they are. That would make me who I'm not um And I think about the fact that funny though, because Tom and Lamb

were very similar, because they had a lot of fundamental similarities. Yeah, I mean that maybe that made her more for giving to him. Maybe you know her, I get it. Yeah, And maybe she's had an affair before that she's never talked to. Maybe that's another episode. Oh well, definitely, yes, and another relationship. But yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, you know what else? What I was thinking that, you know, you know, people meet and they just they're wondering, you know,

are they good for each other? And as a friend, you're wondering that. I come to, you know from line relationships and you know, I have a son now and I want him to be with somebody that's that we really like and it's good for him. And sometimes you're young, you're just doing it for the looks. You're looking for her, you know, somebody that turns you down. With them looks, you're not thinking about their values and their morals and what they believe. In life and and so I you know,

I became a real believer and arranged marriages. Yeah, I agree, by the way, I agree because we have the experience. We know we could see it because we're not. Yes, I mean, but you should give like you could have your own version of the bachelor. I'm explained to you. My assistant is twice years old. She met her, she met her um. They're they're not engaged. Her boyfriends they've been together four years. She met him at her in college and they got more serious during the pandemic. And

they both had houses in Florida. So the parents all got to be close. The parents, all four of them are best friends, talk every day. The parents talk to the other kids. It's literally like an arrangement. It's like two families. It's very game of Thrones, but everybody likes everybody and it actually it would be more enriching to your life too, Like you love your son's wife's family. You guys, you have a new friend, you know, someone

to go on your hikes with. You could do caricatures of them, like you know, it's like a whole thing. You should work on that, like get started now, like get like ten good candidates and do your own internal reality show like that. But the problem with both sets of parents liking your your partner is if you ever break up, they're all gonna getting up on you. And also, I thought you were gonna say the parents get competitive because they want the kids to come to their house.

But then everybody could do it together. They go on family vacation. See, I'm lucky because when you're doing the like holiday negotiation, I have a lot of chips to put in because I'm like, I said it to Paul yesterday, and I did the calendar because I have my daughter and when I have her and when I don't in my business, And I said, I did the calendar big ticket items. Thanksgiving we're with your parents. Christmas we're with

your parents, like big gifts here. So if there's other things that people want from us, we're starting from an advantageous point, Like I'm like, okay, so now we're get you know, we'll get our putting in a lot of chips in the beginning, so if we make mistakes later, people can't get really mad at us. So we give you know, Easter or something forget it. So so when

you don't have two families fighting for the holidays. That one person, you know, has a lot easier, you know, like he doesn't have to split and tell his parents he's got to come to my family for the holidays. He gets to say to his parents, will coming to you for everything. So that's a big gift. Oh yeah, yeah, I mean when you have your spouse that doesn't want to go to your house for a holiday, I mean

that's the beginning of the downfall. Totally, totally yes, And you realize when nobody's asking about your spouse, how are they doing? You know, yes, yes, Luann is in the party and we are literally not talking about her or Tom at all. And she comes over and is entirely paranoid. Understandable, you're on a reality show. There are cameras. When you see a group of people talking, they're usually talking about

you if you're not the one in the group. And then it turns and she wonders why I had all of this information and why I'm so interested in her life, And you see this thing snapped to the other side where it's like, don't be interested in my life. And that was a lightbulb moment in my life of like, oh, you're the one who doesn't want to know, right, because my friends are not that. My best friends are not the one who doesn't want to know, like they're the

ones who want to know. Um. It's almost like when somebody um doesn't want to go get a physical because there they don't want to know what's growing inside of them, you know, they just avoid it. I don't want to go theyn't want to talk about it. I know a lot of people like that. They don't want to they want to find out that they have colon cancer, so they rather not even go. So you're laying in bed with your wife and you're telling her about the fact

that someone's cheating. Is she going to be like, who which of you is saying tell them? And which of you is saying stay the funk out of it? Well with my wife, you know, or what would you are you to stay out of it or you would tell? Would you tell you leave it alone and ignore it? Well, my wife is more of the you know, honestly, be honest, be transparent with everything, and I'm probably more of the

other way. You know, it's none of my business, you know, find out or maybe I'll have somebody else to tell them. You would have told Ramona to tell you would have stayed out of it. Yeah. Yeah. Or if I knew Selbany, I knew somebody who gossip a lot, I would tell that person. Yes, But you had the winning strategy, which was to tell Tom that was that was great. Yeah, that was genius. I want to go back and ask

them if we can reshoot that scene. Um so so I um so, I stay fine, I see him doing something in the street, I will not say it, and then that's the end. So um there, there you have it. I mean, so, so, what was your rose of this episode and what was your thorn? Well, the thorn was, of course that Tom. You know that thorn was that how she wouldn't confront him and or wouldn't break up

with him. That the rose was how everybody supported her or tried to support her, and how much you know passion you have for it because you just totally, you know, told her. Then you took consequences. It's funny that you say that. I think one of the reasons it's rated so well and was a good episode because I've watched back on other episodes of other cities and they don't they don't hold up time wise as much, I thought it was a good episode because I didn't think it

was fake support. There's a lot of fake support on house as I'm supporting you to support your girlfriend's girls, supporting women and women stick toket. I did feel that it was genuine from everyone I did. Oh, what about the fact that Tom I remember this, Sorry everybody, this is behind BTS. I was on the phone with Dorinda. I remember laying in my bed in my apartment and her calling me, and it's usually it's like it's like rats or roaches in the city. You see one and

they're really a thousand underneath. So what Dorinda said on television about Tom telling her this is how it's going to play out. She was on the phone with me. I remember in the morning saying to me, because she was good friends with them, she set them up. So because she was set up, she felt like she was sort of part of their relationship, Like she'd go out with them for drinks a lot and hang out and

they were all a group. So because she was getting all the credit for setting, you know, the layne up with her fiance, and then all of a sudden, pendulum swings and she's the devil for doing it. But she called me and said Tom was like you basically no if you don't, because he wanted her to cover it up and make it like it didn't happen, or like I was lying or the restaurant was lying. They wanted to get the Weiter in on it. They really wanted

to do a whole cover up job. And because they're good friends of Arenda, it was like, you are not our friend, and you will not be invited to the wedding. What about that scandal, Yeah, I mean it just it just breeds and breaths more scandals. Like you said, you see one route, you know, it's a lot around right. I can't believe he wanted it. Yeah, he wasn't willing

to just come correct. Think about that. He's on television now and he's going to be on the show again with Luanne getting married, knowing that American knows he cheated on her, and I just don't care. No, obviously he doesn't care. I mean he doesn't care about a lot of things. He doesn't care about, you know, Luanne's feelings. He's just kind of selfish. He's just out for himself, and that's why the marriage didn't last that long. You know, they got divorced. He was just trying to he was

trying to take a pressure off himself. He don't want to get married. He's just trying to save face, right. I believe that he didn't want to get married, and you know, he probably had He probably had a couple of girls on the side, and that was just the one they caught him with, right, Because I know, if you knew Tom like I knew Tom, Yeah, it's about

It's about damn Tom. Um, it's about damn Tom. I would be worried if I was Tom and I knew all those housewives are getting together and talking about me and trash and uh, you know, um sizing me up. I would be really worried. But that's because you are who you are. Some people who have that charming faue charming.

They like to be relevant, even if it's that And because you know, he's not a model or anything, and he's marginally wealthy, very margin so so he you know, likes a little bit of the the shine people talking aboutim and the fact that someone would even call him a player, it usually has to be you know that that probably that's what I'm saying it's a compliment for that guy to be called the player. So I feel like guys, and there's another one. It's another breed. There's

another guy, his name is Tom. And there's another one, Harry. I was. I was like, when are we gonna get a dick? But we have a lot of dick. There were a lot of there's a lot of dick on this show. But there's another guy named Harry and he was the same. He liked to be housewives Adjason in some scene and like be the butt of a joke a little bit, didn't matter, mind it. It's a strange and some money, but not a ton like this whole

strange little subculture of these guys in New York. Stay away from that, and this weird group of women that actually like that because it feels like some sort of Upper East Side micro fandom. It's weird, but anyway, there's a thing with that. And they're all hang out at the Regency. So yeah, it's in the hotel. It's a Lows Regency hotel and it's the restaurant and bar, which where a lot of people do power lunches and breakfasts. In particular because it's up in the sixties on Madison,

like not far from everything. Um, we're ne're all like the you know, the finance offices are and that was like one of the watering holes on the Upper east Side. It's just like Desperado divorces. Yeah, like it's I don't ever, I literally go to l A more than I go to the Upper east Side. That's an absolute fact. That's not an exaggeration. That's a literal fact. Um. So which

housewife are you? Well, I'm not you because you were too you were too aggressive, and you know, I would probably be the straw that stirred the drink a little bit, Like I wouldn't be confrontationial, but I would stir it up a little bit, Like yeah, that's a that's a great yeah. Because Sonya is like saying, making a couple of comments. She let us know she dated Tom. She let us if she was in the mix, but like stepped back a little bit. We knew that she was

sort of in there. She was the straw stirring the drink at all. Fascinating. All right, well what did you think? What did you think at the show? Well, like I said, I've never watched the Housewives before, and uh, and so I kind of saw what the hooplos about. You know, there's a lot of there's a lot of drama, there's a lot of different personalities, and you know, I liked it. I liked it. Um, now I have to follow this episode. Now I have to follow the storyline if I know

what happened. Damn you I'm sorry. Did you laugh? Oh? Yeah I did laugh. And also very analytical. It's like when I watch a comedian. Um, I know they're funny, and sometimes I don't laugh at them for ture, but I know it's funny, but I'm analyzing or I'm trying to be one step ahead enough to see what they're gonna say, you know, like how they're crafting it or anything like that. But yeah, I really didn't like that because I know you. It's fun to watch it, you know,

to see what you're doing. Well. I appreciate that. It's funny that you're probably the first person in your household to watch The house was you know, a lot of people watch it, and a lot of people watch it, I know how of course it's been on for so long, so people like it. You're the best. I appreciate so much you doing this. Um so what are you working on? Um? Well, I have a couple of things. The first, thank you

for asking me. Of course, these paintings behind me. These are paintings I've done caricatures because i love drawing caricatures, and I've only started getting into it in the last couple of years, really going full full, you know, full

power that. And then I got a book deal to put these characters and the caricatures in a book and then opposite page and doodle and abote about them, and um, you know how my experience with them when I met them, or if I didn't meet them, like Freddie Mercury or something, but I just talked about music and going to concerts and things like that. So it's called exaggerate my brushes with fame. I love that. That's like a quadruple on Tendra.

Yeah right, I mean I've got a whole like wall here full of them, you know, Oh, just great passion. That's also that's so amazing. Yeah, I love I'm so excited about it, and people seem to be excited. I'm I'm I'm going on a book tour soon. And my other project is my h have a hiking show. As you know, Ethany and I hike with a different celebrity every week. Great guests lined up. And it's funny because when you start hiking out in the outside and there's

no audience and it's just the two of you. I do it on a self expect People are really forthcoming and revealing, and you know, I hear some pretty good stories that I don't think they would tell on a regular talk show. Really, I love that. How many Well, first of all, how many characatures have you drawn? And then I don't know how many people you've hyped with characters. In my book, there's probably about sixty sixty caricatures, but

I've probably done about, you know, a hundred caricatures. Will you send me a the book because I'll definitely promote it because I want to look at it. I want to look at my Paul want fiance. It will be obsessed with it too, especially the music stuff. Yeah, yeah, I will absolutely promote it for you. I'd love it, but it would great And also like it's a craft that nobody else has like you do, So it's where to do something that no one else knows how to do.

That's what I that's what I find the most interesting about it. Other people know how to do caricatures, and some of them might spread it under heat, but I just like doing it. It's like with the hiking thing. It's not like I got a big contract to do it. I don't even get paid for the hiking thing. No, but not anybody could do a character. I mean, I'm

sure there are people who do it. There are people that also, you know, can make balloon animals and juggle, but but not that many people can do this, So I'm excited. Animals was my second choice. Okay, we'll do balloon animal books of these people and then write a out them. That could be the next time h