This episode is one for the books. Nini digs up dirt on both Phaedra and Candy portious stress censor to the hospital. I become a doctor in analyzing this episode, and Mama Joyce isn't holding back on how she feels about Candy marrying Todd. TV personality Caitlin Bristow joins me to break down the episode. This is Real Housewives of Atlanta, Season six, Episode six, The Old Lady and the Shoe. Let's get into it. Are you a Housewives fan overall?
You?
Are you seasoned in all of the cities? Do you like one city in particular? And do you watch Atlanta?
I am nervous to even say this, but this was the first Real Housewives episode I think I've ever watched in my whole life. I'm a fan of certain people from this show. For you, for example, Very I look up to you as a business woman so much and listen to your podcast all the time and get so many ideas, So thank you for that. But so I'm fans of certain people. But this is the first time I've actually sat down and watched an episode.
Oh my god, amazing.
Yeah, So it was it was fun for me to watch.
Okay, So that's because some people do come in with that perspective. So to give you So Atlanta's on now, I think I don't know what season they're in. You know, currently it's a very different show. It doesn't do as well as it used to, like currently the ratings. You know, these cities have different it ebbs and flows, and for a while Atlanta was the star during like I think it was the Porsche and Naney days, Atlanta was the star. And like New York, when certain people have left the
and it gets refreshed and rebooted, it gets ruined. So I haven't seen the current but I hear I hear nothing, which is now a good sign. I absolutely hear nothing about it, and that means that you know, it's not doing that great right now. Not that it's I'm sure it's a fine show. People are invested, but it's just not where it was.
So this to me.
Was I mean earlier than this, but this was kind of in its heyday, Like this was in because I had seen this episode and I haven't seen I have not seen most of Atlanta, but back in the day I really liked it and really tuned in, and this was part of that era, So it was good for me to throw back back and go back into it and be reminded when Atlanta it was really good and I'm sure it'll be good again.
You know every show takes you know has Yeah.
I feel that way a lot of a lot like The Bachelor Bachelorette. Oh yeah, Like the ratings go up and down and it's it's like it ebbs and flows, same thing as what you're saying. So it was It's interesting for me to watch too, because I'm I got invested or I was like, well, what are they doing now, like after that girl fainted this year? Okay now? Or is it like what came of all these things? So I probably have questions for you.
It felt like you were watching a soap opera that you had no idea who these people were, and all of a sudden you just cared about what the hell was going on. Yeah, this was a pretty so I've seen a lot of Jersey episodes where men are like fistfighting and crazy stuff, and people are in Atlanta where people are ripping each other's hara. This to me was
an iconic Atlanta episode. Shout out to my producers for choosing it it was iconic because of that bridal scene, and we'll get into it, but it was an iconic Atlanta episode.
This is back.
I just thought the show was so entertaining then, because I keep going back to this thought as we have a current new cast in New York and a newly, very very glossy produced show. This was back when it was messy and I like things messier. And you brought up The Bachelor and the Bachelorette and people have said that, you know, Chris, of course that's who they've cast in
the show, but Chris Harrison leaving affected the ratings. This is one The show is really messy and not perfect, and what do you think about that?
In a bachelor here?
I love that too, I think you know, I think people well, first of all, there used to be alcohol flowing all the time, and it was just kind of like, I don't know, comical to watch from a fan perspective, because there was no limit and there it was messy and people could do whatever and get away with so many things, where now everybody's worried about certain things. And now we've gone back to kind of the same format
where it's the same bully every season. The same victim, the same thiss and I do miss the messy days because now there's a two drink limit and it's just not what it used to be. And I and I agree about the Chris Harrison thing. It just kind of changed after that.
Interesting, So we're saying the same thing.
You're saying, it's more heavily produced now even without the alcohol, that there's a format and you can predict it and you could study it as a bachelor. You could study it as a bachelor or a bachelorette walking into it and try to produce yourself, and it just doesn't It's a the same thing for the final product is not the same. The audience doesn't trust it. We're also in the world now where there's citizens journalism.
TikTok. Real is very real, unedited, no lying is very in.
A girl pretty much got canceled for having fake eyelashes on in a mascare ad on TikTok.
So I saw that.
Yeah, So I feel like we're in the era at the same time that we're in the era of people wanting real reality. Ironically, reality shows are overproduced, over sanitized, over waxed and shiny now and the viewer can tell the difference the viewers.
Getting really smart, and I do think you're right. There's so many people myself included, where I go on my podcast and I talk about, well, what really happens behind the scenes and how you know, so many people now are going on to be TikTok influencers, to be Instagram models and influencers, and we as viewers see right through it.
And I think it's because, uh, you know, people like to expose the shows like that too, because it's nice to know what is real, what is edited, what is fake, what is you know, manipulated.
Also, so back then, it used to be normal, messy human beings cast on the Housewives, totally imperfect. Their homes weren't perfect, nothing was perfect, no one. There was no social media. So now I bet you on the Bachelor and Bachelorette series, people are being cast because they have a social media following, and so it's a circular reference where they're they're going on the show to get more famous,
and they don't really have good intentions. I found that on my show that most of the people that came on to the show the big shot wanted.
To be famous. They didn't really want the job, Yes exactly.
I feel that, and a lot of reality TV shows now I find that, and it's it's losing the charm of it as well, because I find that watching people who really weren't on for anything but like you know, for example, Obviously, that's what I'm going to continue to relate back to because I experienced it, but it was not an opportunity to have a brand or a business, and it was it was more charming back then because people were really there for love and they didn't really.
Know what to expect exactly.
And so now you kind of see through people and nobody's being as authentic as they used to be, and it's just all not as enjoyable to watch.
So the medium has changed so real the headline is that reality television ironically has morphed into something scripted, formatted, produced and perfect and normal people who are literally reality are becoming famous and that's being celebrated.
Interesting.
You look like a cross between Jenna Dewant and Megan Fox to me, which is certainly.
Nothing that anyone would be upset about.
I'm like sure, and she's wearing a sweatshirt in the morning with a ponytail, so and don't worry.
I haven't. I haven't washed my hair in two days, all right, So, oh the beauty, this is greasy.
The thank you, as are you? And this is greasy. I just came from the gym, so this is dry sweat as well, So thank you so much. That's very nice of you.
Beautiful okay, but very sweet also. So all right, so we're getting into this. This is the Real Housewives of Atlanta.
Okay.
So Candy's assistant is her best friend. Like that's a headline to me, Like, let's just start with that. You imagine your assistant being your best friend.
I cannot. I could not. I could not either.
Although my assistant is like one of the most loveliest human beings on the planet that I could see her becoming almost family, but a best friend. I could never tell my best friend to do stuff for me.
That's what I'm saying.
You have a best friend your whole life, since it sounded like they were twelve years old at least, and then later and there's.
But it goes both ways.
Because you want to help your best friend. Maybe she needed a job, maybe she could use the money. Maybe you overpay her. It's amazing, but there's definitely a fine, fine line, and this show really really crosses it because now we still come out of the gate with Carmen her best friend, saying that Candy's mom thinks that she's having an affair with Todd, Like, okay, and they're about to get married.
I know, mom is her name, Mama Joyce. That's who it is, right, Yes, the mom.
Okay, she.
From what it sounds like on this episode. And they even say I think she likes to make anything dramatic, so she's just I feel like she just made it up to cause some drama.
She's like, no, let's say that you're hooking up with that person. Let's cause some drama.
Well I've never said this out loud, but I have thought that she wants to be famous. But like you could see when people around you really like it, and that's okay. But it seems like she's gotten attention for it on the show and really likes it. But I think it is who she really is, because Carmen sort of indicates and implies and sort of says that this has been a dynamic that's been going on a long time.
Right, I mean, she's not in the center of the photo wall and she wants to be this and that's right, it could be really who she is. But also she's really really leaning into that.
She's not cheating it up. I think that, yes, reality TV. It's exactly what that is reality TV. Anything that would normally happen gets maximized and highlighted and blown up thirty like thirty times. Like if you would say to someone, oh, I'm not sure that I would have chosen that top. On reality TV, you'd be like, that top is whack, you know it's.
And then and then the music that they can play behind it, that adds to the dramatic effect.
That's funny. Yes, that's really funny. So you wouldn't know this, But Todd, Candy's husband is a Real Housewives producer that she met on the show. So they broke the fourth wall, got together, got you know, and are getting married on the show. And now he's a cast member. He went from being a crew member to being a cast member.
WHOA, I didn't know that. That's yeah.
I like when shows break the fourth wall. But that's crazy.
Well, right, because on the Bachelor, people have gotten trucked in trouble because producers have had affairs.
We haven't thought about that.
We've never made that connection that producers have had affairs with cast members and then both people have gotten fired and taken off the show, and on the Housewives it's celebrated and now he gets rewarded and becomes a cast member because that's good TV on the Housewives, but not on the Bachelor.
Definitely not on the Bachelor.
Interesting, Okay, So like somehow psychologically it feels like a young cast member on The Bachelor's being taken advantage of by a member of power or member of the crew, and it doesn't feel like that on Housewives.
Oh that's a good point. I have seen some and stuff has come out in the past about it. But there's definitely been some inappropriate relationships between people in power, you know, and and the cast members of Bachelor. And I'm surprised more hasn't come out, but it definitely happens. It's a shame.
Sometimes, like Ramona got really mad when we haven't even gotten too the showy because this is a BTS, but Ramona got Ramona from The New York Housewives got mad because a crew member ate our crab cakes, the food that I had made for us, and it was when we were on this Scary Island iconic episode that went sideways, and so one of the crew was like eating their feelings and stressed out because it was it went crazy. So they were eating our food, but like normally the
crew isn't using our bathroom eating our food. I'm shooting from my YouTube series with a with a Housewives producer and at my house, I said, because we were all sweating it was super hot. If you want a shower here, and I have guest houses and basements and other areas and it could be in my bedroom, I don't care. And he was like, it's okay, but thank you, like he felt it was like a very thank you because cast is not telling crew to shower in their house
and they're not. So crew isn't using your jacuzi or your pool. It's like they have their own place to stay. So it's interesting.
It is interesting.
Yeah, there's a lot of a lot of weird gray areas and lines don't know like what's appropriate to cross or where it gets weird. Especially on that show. You're spending so much time with you know, the crew and production and you get so close to them that that line becomes a little bit blurry of what's appropriate and what's not.
And the boundaries have really been blurred.
When I went on The Apprentice years ago, crew did not even speak to cast unless it was like doing an interview bite or something professional.
There's no ever talking to them.
And so I walked into Housewives thinking that and it was completely different. Jill had, you know, producers staying at her Jill from New York Housewives had producers staying at her house to go cast people. And you're eating meals with them and drinking wine with them, and it's the lines are blurred. They should maybe go back the way it was, so you know they're not So speaking of boundaries, where do you stand on setting boundaries with a parent
and child relatedationships when both people are adults. So I even I have boundaries with my daughter who's thirteen. But I've seen so many people before who don't know how to say to their parents, this is where the line is, this is where it's not, and this is unacceptable. I'm an adult, I make my own money or whatever it is, and it's not acceptable for you to behave this way. And Candy and Mama Joyce's dynamic could not be more of a blurred line, and I think it's wildly inappropriate.
And Candy really is a little bit of a doormat to her mother. She just has creates no boundaries. So what do you think about that?
Ugh, I have I've done so much in her child work and therapy, and like I did at the beginning of the year, this whole week retreat of it, so I feel like so aware of certain boundaries and things that I've worked on personally. And when I was watching that, I just kept thinking, Wow, that they could really benefit from Hoffmann the retreat that I just went to for inner child work, because she's just grown up like that.
I mean, that's all she knows, and she's never it seems like, I obviously this is just from me watching one episode. It feels like she's never been able to stand up to her mom, because even Todd was like,
you've got to stand up for yourself. And I just don't understand personally, because my mom and I have such an incredible relationship, but there are so many hard boundaries and you kind of have to become the parent at some point as a child when you turn into an adult, and I know that's hard for parents sometimes, but my mom does so much work on herself too, that it was like a very easy transition for us as long
as we could have healthy communication. But it just seems like they've never practiced, that, they've never had that, and like it would be hard to start now.
She's your mother's meeting you where you're at and vice versa. And I don't get into like opining so strongly. And Candy's smart and strong and a badass in her own life except for this one relationship.
And that's what's really fascinating.
And I've seen it before, grown you know, successful adults with her with their parents. So Nini and Greg, it's so interesting to watch, is Nini in my opinion? Well, Nini not. In only my opinion, Nini is an iconic Hall of Fame housewife. She's sitting with her husband, Greg, who has now passed. They had gotten yep, they got divorced, then they got back together. I think this is before
they even got divorced. It has been a rollercoaster with them, and he's passed away, and they're talking to these other two people about Phaedra, who you later see is studying to be a mortician, which is real and Nini's sharing that Phaedra has the reputation of being the head.
Doctor Dick surgeon.
So I mean, I'm sorry to bring this up to you, but it sounds like Nini's saying that Paedra has a question of reputation. So it felt to me like, and that's what Nani's messy, okay. And the thing about reality TV is that we want them to be real, but we also want them to edit themselves, and it's not fair if you were talking to a girlfriend. There are some things that your girlfriend would say to you that they would never dare to say on TV. And what I like about Nini is she's willing to just be
who she is off camera on camera. So while it's not appropriate for her to share that with two other people, which is where you lose me, you're kind of like, Okay, that's what Ninni thinks of Phaedra, and she's just saying it on television, So what do you think about this?
I struggle with that too because I'm I am such an open book and on my season of Bechelort I was considered like the most controversial because I talked about sex because I had sex before the fantasy suite and it was Wow, it was a whole thing, and I was so confused by it because I grew up in Canada. I grew up we talked very openly about like what
was happening in relationships. Would sit down with my family and have like feelings meetings and just really open, honest and you were always accepted for just being who you were and we would talk through it. Where I went onto a television show just so naive. I have never done TV in my life, and I just thought, like, I didn't understand that I was going to get backlash, and then I didn't understand the backlash when it happened.
But I really wanted to stay true to who I was, and I kind of channeled it into women empowerment and having a voice and being you know, a person who can talk about this and I'm you know, it kind of let me step outside of this box of what has been made for the bachelorettes.
And so now we did it Land did it ultimately?
Land?
Yeah?
Yes. It went from me feeling rock bottom and like getting a lot of hate and slut shaming to turning into like, no, this is who I am and built a community around it. And it's been like one of the most empowering things for me. Where now I just go like, if somebody were to say that on TV about me now or talk about that time in my life, I have like pride in where I came from and how it happened and who I am. So I'm kind
of okay with it. It just kind of depends on the person if they are or not me personally, I could talk about anything. I don't know their dynamic and relationship over all the seasons. So I'm like, is this typical of Nini and is Theedra she is? She hurt by it?
Well, I mean, Faedra is a great TV character. I mean it's embarrassing.
I think.
I mean, I once my only regret ever on television is calling someone like a sort of slut slur based on behavior that I had seen that was hypocritical to be honest, but that's not what we're talking about. I feel like it was just a random shot, So I don't, you know, it felt like a random shot just to
like she doesn't like Phaedra. And a lot of times on these shows they want to just character assassinate versus calling out the thing that's actually going going on, and that's just a lot hanging fruit, no pun intended, so no pun intended. So and yeah, and I guess, but that's hard to resist. Sometimes if someone has a reputation, often it's that someone's hypocritical, and you know, Phaedra acts
like she's very a Southern bell. So then if she's giving you know, blowjobs to everybody she knows and it's got and she has a reputation, it's going to be tempting on these shows to call it out. It's like, for me, it was a woman who tries to act like she's a royal and tell other people how to act in etiquette, and she has a very you know, questionable reputation in many areas, so it's irresistible to bring it up because of how much someone tries to act
like they're better. Then, so it's never in a vacuum. If you were on the show acting like you were a complete prude and a nun and then people found out that you had had sex before the fantasy suite and all this stuff, it's the combination, I think, versus the thing in and of itself.
That's a really good point. It feels more like and Nini was just trying to like, like it might even be her humor. I'm not sure to just take jabs or yeah, that's so. I'm kind of like that too, where that's sometimes where you got to put your foot in your mouth and go, oh, I just did that thing that I do and it might hurt somebody's feelings.
Exactly, but we're on a reality show, so I gotta be me and then I'm gonna right now, it's a whole circular reference. So if Apollo, Apollo later goes to jail, is Faedra's husband and he's texting Kenya, So I don't know what the hell that means, and I know that Kenya and Phaedra don't like each other, so it doesn't matter. I don't even need to know what the hell that means. I vaguely remember it, but it's fucked up. It's unacceptable,
and it's literally black and white. There's nothing I need to discuss, right.
Yeah, I agree. Even just watching that one part, I was like, and his apology was just so uh inauthentic. It was it didn't feel real. He was just kind of dismissing her feelings and just being like, oh, it's not a big deal. But really, if it was the other way around, it probably would have been a big deal.
And I just hate the double standard.
But I could see a little bit from him. It seems like a man. You know, men, I've had this experience. Men get a masculated by strong, successful women, and it seems like he has no purpose and no real job and he's emasculated by her success. And he's saying that he kind of wants the old Phedro, which to me
says before the show. And even though he seems like not the greatest guy, it brought up to me how relationships really can't weather reality television, like the person is going to change, and it's just it's not natural for this to.
I had that written down in my notes. I literally had it written down when I was watching the show, being like, he is so emasculated, he's not getting the attention he used to do. I'm not a man hater, love men, but they are such babies and that's how I felt watching this me too.
He's an insecure he's not the moneyed spouse and he's displacing it and he feels inferior. And so the way that men do this with women is to then find other ways to exert their power because they really don't have any, so they find other ways. And you can see this here. I've been through this so she I mean the fact that I love the fact that she's opening a mortuary. I think it's genius on television. Noone's ever done it. She should have renamed her character on
the show Mortsha, you know. So what do you think about I am by the way. I literally this is such an example of not until you have a tween understanding something. I cannot imagine talking about anything to do with sex or the sex talk, or my daughter having a boyfriend on television. I think it's a violation. I think the pan I actually in watching it in a vacuum. I think they seem like great parents. Cynthia is a great co parent. He seems like a great co parent.
She seems to choose good men, even though she's divorced from both of them. She may not choose good men for her, but she has good, really relationships with the men that she's been in relationships with now. And that's hard to do and I haven't been able to achieve that. But I'm struck by how much of a violation and breaking a boundary it is to talk about anything about Atween's dating or sex life on television. It's just it's wrong.
It's not good for them. I agree it there's nothing good about it.
I agree they don't know, Like they're so fragile at that time in their life and they have only their parents to look up to for advice, and so if they're they don't really have a choice, like, oh, I'm my parents are talking about this on TV. You haven't given them a choice. It feels my God, and it feels like what you said, like two things can exist.
They are great co parents. They look like they have like a strong relationship with their daughter where they have that trust and respect to have these kinds of conversations. But at the same time, it's in my opinion as well, wrong to expose that on TV because I don't feel like you're protecting your child at that point.
I really don't, And I really did not know this at all, then I wouldn't have thought about it's a scene in a show. But like, you can't say the daughter agreed to it, because she's a child, and my daughter will do anything I want to make me happy for the most part, you know, and you sometimes can see when your kids get a little uncomfortable, but they're going along with it and they can't process their feelings
to use their voice. One of the things I say to Brand a lot about she's been in situations in the past where she's felt uncomfortable, not with me, but
about circumstances in my divorce. And the one thing that the therapist says is to it doesn't matter if she gets the results she wants, so she has to learn to use her voice, showing me that they would not their their mind and their voice can't keep up with ketch up with their emotions to say like, I'm not comfortable with this, Well, how do you know how it's going to be perceived in school?
Like they don't. They might be they might be playing chess.
What are your friends gonna be saying when you're walking down the street with your father talking about having a boyfriend, and then the father saying to the mother she's going to have sex.
I really hate it.
And I wouldn't never have even said this years ago. I just have a tween, and I think it's a violation also from the network, from the Bravo and the producers like, let's not exploit a thirteen year old's relationship in sex life, and if this happens, we're not gonna air this, like it's disgusting.
How old do we know how old she is?
Now?
Maybe she's fifteen or sixteen. I don't know, Hona, Okay, I don't know how well she hasn't seen. She looks to be fourteen. I mean she's a teen or a tween. I don't know exactly how old she is, but it's not great.
Oh she's she's twenty three. How old was she then?
She was like thirteen?
It's terrible. Yeah, oh my god, she's my daughter's age.
Horrible.
I'm gonna say I'm not. I think I love Cynthia. I think she's lovely. I think her husband seems lovely. I think it's a terrible decision by everybody, and most importantly, the network should not be exploiting thirteen year olds and referencing sex.
It's disgusting. So I have a very different perspective.
Now, okay, the cat Cardio cabaret is adorable. That's like a producer scene that they want to have everybody do something together, and Luanne should have been there. Because Luanne from New York. Her life is a cabaret. She's a cabaret singer, and oh, I love that.
I love watching them dance.
I think Kenya was a great dancer, and I would have liked to see them dancing more like I saw Nina. You could tell she had good moves. Candy was really into it, and it's like sexy and sexualized, and I love watching it.
I didn do.
I grew up dancing my whole life and anything that has a dance scene, I'm into it. I'm obsessed with it. And they were like working their hips and getting all sexy, and it felt like it felt like something that you could tell it was like the producers maybe wanted them to do it and they're like okay, and then they got into it and it was a lot of fun, and I think they enjoyed it.
Well and that they were competitive about it because you could tell Keny wanted to be the star and she's talking about her booty workout that she's going to give to Phedro because Kenya had a DVD that she she launched and it was competing with I think Phaedra's, so she's like competing here. But they wanted to, like, it looks like Kenya is the best answer. I don't know Nina's got the shit.
That was about. I was confused why she was, like, she just had a baby and I sent her this workout and the Okay, I didn't know she had her own thing.
Okay, that makes more sense now exactly. So it's funny because I think it was I think it was.
I think it was like sloppy is not the word, but like not well done for the producers to not let the audience have a final answer on what Porsha's condition was, because it's vasovas. It's vasovagel when you get up quick, when you get up and your blood pressure drops and you faint, because it happens to me. My blood pressure crashes, and some people wear compression socks and people have to leave their legs up. But it's called vasovagel.
And then this is long before people were talking about pots, which is autoimmune. And Porscha was dehydrated too, and these are all symptoms that I have. Literally I didn't realize this then, but her fainting, her having vasovagel, her being dehydrated, it's literally it sounds like pots POTS, which is an autoimmune syndrome, and I'd be interested to know because that's something that the audience could have related to, and it's actually very popular and many women have spoken to me
about it, so I'd like to get a final. But I know that that's what it was because she described it, and she probably didn't even know the word pots because I learned her last year. But vasovagel is a common term, and that's what that was. So I think they just I was worried about her.
I was.
I was like, I got to look into the so many people now I need to do my research on and check in on how they're doing now. Like I was worried about her. And the show ended and I was like, what happened?
Is she okay? Exactly exactly? Oh my god.
The girls are like shook that it later came up that she does have vaso vague. Actually I'm a doctor. I guess I'm a part time doctor.
I literally.
They're shook shook because I I'm a doctor, Okay, Bethany, I part time doctor. How funny I and I did say it was such authority. I said it was such authority, like I knew what Yes, Wow, okay, well I'm a part time doctor. So they all go on a bus trip referring back to another bus trip where they couldn't get there.
Uh.
And then you get to really you, Caitlin, get to really meet Kenya and see how she's with her aunt who raised her as a daughter, and with her dog, who she's kind of turning into her child, which a lot of people do. Yeah, you know, it's displaced, it feels like. And the question comes up, which I've asked people, the child or marriage if you had to only have one.
And I remember once being in a glamor room with a bunch of people and they all said the partner first, which shocked me because I would have always said the child, and she kind of meant.
One percent child. Well, I consider my dogs my children at this point. But I froze my eggs when I was thirty two, and I always think about how I'm just I'm not a very traditional person and I've never really dreamt of like a wedding, and I've never really had that vision of oh, I'll get married and you know, you go to school, you go to college, you get a good job, you get married, you have kids. I've always been like, I'm just going to go where the wind blows me, and I'm going to do what makes
me happy. And I've always thought of having a kid before marriage.
Well wait a second, you were on the Bachelor, Yes, so what does that mean If you were on the Bachelor, weren't you there to find to find a partner?
And I did, and we were together for three and a half years. We were engaged for three and a half years, and he came with me to freeze my eggs actually, and then we broke up.
And now I'm with a new partner, with a new partner. But marriage isn't necessarily a prior to you, just like having a partner.
We've been engaged for two years, and both of us like we're so focused on our careers. We're so focused on ourselves. I've never really dreamt of having a wedding, and it's just like we've just never worked on it.
We've always talked about having kids.
You have a life partner, which sounds dorky and weird, but I have the same thing and I'm the same
in the exact same boat. And we've been engaged probably two years, and I just like it's like we've chosen each other, and you know, one of us was more into that than the other, but was into more of the like formality and the tradition, but we both ended up evolving to be in the same place where you know, people can choose to be together and people can choose to be in a committed relationship and you don't have to have a legal document to you know, to seal that.
Okay.
So so that was just interesting that the mother figure has kind of suggested that she put that she get the child first, and knowing Kenya, knowing that she she does have a lot of trauma to heal from her childhood, I understand. I think that the child first is the right move for her. That's what I think.
Yeah, I mean, it feels like she's had such a you know, the silent battle of you know, being abandoned by your mom. And then also she said she was having like infertility struggles or something along those lines, right, And both of those feel like really silent battles, and it's I'm glad she has somebody like a mother figure to her to talk through.
Self worth battles and my damaged goods battles and in your own head but yeah, it sounds terrible. I mean there's a lot of reason why Ken you can lash out and can be really tough and scathing, because she's definitely one of those people that's like a wounded bird that's caged.
That like, yeah, a wounded animal that comes at you and we all, I mean I can relate to that.
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Now We're at the Now We're at the wedding salon, the bridal salon, which is probably one of the best scenes I've ever seen on reality television. I really didn't realize it because the juxtaposition of the white and the dresses and what this experience is always marketed to be.
And it's great.
I love my producers for choosing episodes that fit with the guests, like you're here and I don't think they knew half of this about your childhood trauma and all these things we're talking about. So we got that as a bonus, and all the commentary on reality TV we got as a bonus, and the sexuality, et cetera. But like the wedding dress scene, going to trying a dress is supposed to be angelic and so perfect and so like sort of almost phony, and like drink it as
a champagne and it's gonna be perfect. Even if the wedding is gonna be perfect and the people end up divorce, that scene in your life or on television is always just perfect. So did you guys have those scenes where someone will go trying the wedding dresses on the Bachelor Bachelor, right, you must have.
It's so funny because this is all just I mean, I don't really believe in coincidences, but just the fact that two days ago I was watching I went to try on wedding dresses with Jimmy Kimmel and Germo for like a funny bit on their show, and it was so funny because the girl at the bridle shop, you know, it's like all these white dresses, and you know it's supposed to be like the virgin getting sent away by her father to another like the slot on television, right, right,
So they're like, oh, do you want something like maybe different and pink, and Jimmy was like, oh, that's not fair, is that because you watched her season and you don't think she deserves to wear white? So that's whole It's just so funny. So I just watched that two days ago to show my friend just this funny bit that
we did about trying on wedding dresses. So then watching this scene, I found it comical to be like, oh my gosh, this whole scene and what you said, it's supposed to be just this magical moment and the tear falls when you get the right one, and here the mother is trying to throw a shoe, and it was just incredible.
Right.
So it's so funny because this show is so weird in that even more than my other show Just b which is about like talking about people in their lives and real issues. This show about something so ridiculous, meaning this show rewives about tragic, ridiculous, absurd episodeisodes always ends up bringing up so many real issues for me and the guests, like you and I are talking about like
childhood trauma and abandonment and sexuality. It's so I love the show for that that, like there are always always these gems and it's always full circle, and like this is so weird that you're saying that because I'm feeling the same thing. I'm like thinking about my childhood and me my mother and whatever. That's so it's fascinating. So yeah, this is that angelic perfect scene. So let's get so Carmen is there and she's supporting her friend and boss
and it makes total sense that she's there. Yeah, and the mom comes in so hot and is so disrespectful from the jump, like the side eye the well if she marries someone else, and she's just letting us know that like this wedding isn't gonna happen, and that.
This is all just a freaking hand job.
This is a charade, This is just a motion that we're going through with these dresses, which probably the producers is suggested to do. They wanted Tinsley to try and wedding dresses when she wasn't even engaged, so that's what they know what they're doing. That's a low hanging fruit scene that's gonna rate for the viewer. Let's go try a wedding dresses. So now we're all in here and the mom is just you know, rolling her eyes and
also saying they're not getting married. And she's got two sidekicks. She's got the two backup dancers that are on the same exact page. And this is Kandy's family.
Yeah, I know.
That's what made me said, is I'm like, no, you're the family. I actually had a question you because like in Bachelor World, they will say, you know, like you shouldn't be happy about this situation. The producers, I'm saying, they'll be like, you shouldn't be happy about the situation, like you should go in hot and feel this way because this is what this person did to you. I wonder do producers like fire up the mom to go in there and and like amper up for that.
Probably not in as orchestrated as a way or produced way as the Hills and The Bachelor Bachelorette. But what would happened was you're got you're getting out of the car to go into a scene, and then you're being micd. So while you're being miked, the producer will come over while the sound person is micing you, or get into the car. Okay, remember to hit the beats about how you feel about Todd, how you feel about to the mom, to the mom, how you feel about Carmen, et cetera.
And the producers might have said to Candy, are you gonna stick up to your mom today?
Are you gonna whatever? And clearly Candy didn't.
But there's some beat that's discussed that's going to go down and like seeds are and then there's something planted about with happening in this moment and then also the future moment. Like at the cabaret, there were beats that the producer said to the women that were like, okay, remember to invite everybody.
Now, remember to invite everybody to the trip.
Because they always want to set up the next scene, so you're always paying it forward. So in each scene
you're trying to set up the next scene. It's happening while addressing what's happening in this scene and addressing something that happened before, like, and not every talent hits all the beats, and some talents like myself, are like, should stop, I know what to do and leave me alone, and I want to do real but often it's like, oh, remember to talk to the mom or the anthem I would happen last time, like you know, past, present, and future.
So that's kind of how it goes down.
But it's beats. The ant is amazing. I just love the ant I don't know why. It's just like and she gets up and she and the friend is also amazing, Like Carmen is amazing, and she's standing her ground and where is the line? She kept her cool, but she still was fighting with her friends and herr boss is mother.
So like, yes, where is that line?
Like I think.
I think the friend should just respectfully leave. It's a mother and a daughter and she's the it's her boss, and she was kind of almost about to throw down with the mom too, and I agree with everything she was saying, but I feel like that's the moment when it's like and she did, I'm going to respectfully leave.
Yeah, I feel like obviously we needed that scene, but I would have just pulled Candy aside right away and been like, your mom is mommy, your mom's doing the mom thing, and I don't know how to deal with this. But of course we needed that scene for TV. So I don't know where that line is of how to deal with it, because you want to stand up for yourself, but you know that your friend can't even stand up to her own mom. So should you or should you back down and go I don't know.
Well, in real life, you wouldn't do that, because you wouldn't go up to the bride and like pull focus even if someone was crazy. In reality life, you know yes, and you know it's like if you say in reality, like, oh my god, I really hope there's no drama on this trip. Producers just want drama on this trip. So
like Carmen leaving takes away from the drama. If she storms out, it adds to the drama and you have to do real But like her being in the nex room is probably the producer saying stay in here and we'll have Candy come talk to you. And obviously the fight was what made it iconic, so I'm glad that it happened. First of all, before before we get into the show, I think the mom said the words I will fuck you up. I'm pretty sure that she said I will find Okay, you heard that too, I.
Mean I don't because you say that that's hilarious.
I mean, I love like a mom saying at her daughter's bridle fitting, I will fuck you up, like that's insane and amazing, and I don't want it for.
My own shoe in her hand, the shoe in her hand.
I have a question.
I went to a taping of Watch What Happens Live because I love Brian Cranston and he was on there and I'd asked a question at the beginning, and I said, do you think they'd ever do a real housewise of Nashville? And he was like, I think we're good on all the housewise, but I feel like it would be so good to do a show in Nashville.
It might, but it's all about the cast and who they can find, and that they might not be starting new cities. They might be like nurturing their own cities, and the franchise is having some issues. Certain flagship stores do really well, like Beverly Hills, other cities don't do as well, but it's their biggest money making, multi billion dollar property that the network owns. And also cable networks
are streamers for old people at this point. Oh so it's a challenging time and space to start nuance in my opinion, But of course I don't know. So Canny is a is passive and she's a stifler. She stuffs it down, and I think she enables her mother. She does not set boundaries, like it's okay to like not go rip your mother a new hon or, be disrespectful, she said to Todd earlier. I would never speak to my mother that way. But she does not set any boundaries.
So I wanted to know from the producers if to this day it still goes on. And I also want to know if she's still in a good relationship with Todd, because on another show the other day, OH, with Jill Zarin, I talked about who the longest lasting relationship surviving and thriving.
It might have Kylo.
Morisio just allegedly sort of split. It seems like Candy and Todd have done a good job of staying together on a show as like main characters.
So I don't oh, so you don't know if they are still together or not. Candy and Todd. I believe that they definitely are.
So so Candy's good at, you know, holding onto a relationship she's had for a.
Long time, and that's positive because she's still with Todd. I know.
I just want you to know that the mom Mama Joyce said she could it was interesting because she was like, oh, they're not gonna end up together. But and and Carmen is definitely sleeping to Todd, but she could have his little lass like so disrespectful.
To your daughter's partner. Like, I think it's good. Tical the best scene ever.
I mean, it's comical, it's really funny. I laughed out loud a couple times, and I just couldn't believe it was real because if that was my mom, I just can't even imagine my mom doing anything like that. But that's now I think about it. Like you said, Candy holds onto relationships. She's probably too scared to set any boundaries with her mom because she's too worried about losing that relationship or her mom just I don't know, being done with her. But somebody said, there's a quote and
I'm probably gonna butcher it. But it's about the only people that boundaries affect are the ones who benefited from them in the first place. So the mom is benefiting from her not having boundaries because she gets to like just you know, yeah, do her thing. But Candy's too afraid to set those boundaries because she's scared of her mom.
Does that mean there's an imbalance in a relationship because Candy's always suffering and the mom is always indulging her own impulses, and it's totally out of balance. It's not like once in a while where someone could snap or you know my message is and know it.
He was great.
I could be a little scathing, you know, I never go below the belt, but like then I course correct and check myself because there's a balance. And in any relationship the best that I'm in, whether it's my daughter or you know, someone I work with or my fiance, like, I'm self aware and the person is going to establish the boundaries and I also set them too. It's just really very imbalanced, and I think it still is. Yeah, all right, So that was amazing. I think it's a
great show. I think you were you know, because when I started doing rewives. I thought about Paul. My fiance was like, you should really need to have people who really know about housewives, and I'm like, I like both. I don't like when someone comes on here and is like, oh, I don't know and I don't know. Like you invested in it, you leaned into it and we ended up
having a lot of amazing conversations about life. I don't think both of us have to be experts on it because then you get a fresh set of eyes and fresh perspective.
So I like that.
But you were the perfect guest for that. So I thank you for really leaning in and doing this.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you.
And we also got to talk about your life and your experience on TV, so I think it was really interesting.
So awesome. All right, thank you. So is there anything you wanted to promote that you're doing?
By the way, I kind of tried to slip in there my podcast, But what's it called. It's called Off the Vine.
Off the Vine? Oh, I think logo is so cute and so is the background.
Okay, thank you.
I've had it for six years and you're the only other podcast that I don't listen to. Other podcasts you're the only other one that I'll listen to, and it's helped me with I started my own wine label, and so yes, it's so helpful. Off the vine, no, so we called it Spade and Sparrows's. That's a whole other story. But my podcast was always a wine centric podcast and always on The Bachelor, everyone knew me for having a
glass of wine all the time. And so I started my own wine label with Don Sebastianian Sons out of NAPA and we're in Target and Costco now and we're just growing. But do I was wondering if you drink wine?
I do.
I just launched it Forever Young Wine. What kind of is it rose or is it white?
Yeah?
I have white rose, pino noir and a cab So sure.
Send it, I'll try it and i'll your review.
I would love that. Thank you, honestly, thank you so much for having me, and I would love an honest review for you of the and I'm count wait to try yours.
Fantastic, Thank you, Okay, goodness so much. Bye.
Well that was unexpected and amazing and she was so insightful and interesting and smart and like that was really great. I mean, I loved her gorgeous inside and out. Well, I like her a lot. That was great, really great, And sometimes you hear like, oh, it's a bachelorette act and I thought, like, you know, is she going to be fascinating and interesting and smart and guess what she really was?
That was wonderful, So I'm really happy today. That was great.