Denise Richards (Part 1)

Hi, Denise. I was thinking about the first time we ever met, and I think I'm I think it was when I had the talk show in La but it may have even been before before that. Tell me what it was.

I think we had dinner with Rina and a couple other people and then we met.

I don't you wait?

Was it maybe at the Soho house We're not, I don't remember, I.

Don't, I don't know, but you were renting a place in La I think for the summer.

That was around the same time, that was around the talk show, and then you.

It was right before the talk show.

Okay, and you came on. Jill Fritzo is both of our publicists, so I'm now thinking she must have been there, been back there with you, and I can't what would have made you come on except for like a favor, because it was probably a favorite of the show. It was a test show, so some people like Justin Bieber were doing it. It was crazy, guess because they were doing favors to Ellen and.

I wanted to go on. It wasn't just for a favorite.

Well, I remember. I think it probably was like I don't know if it was like seven or you were You seemed guarded then and having met you since then and before then, I've now been seven.

Yeah, I was going through a bad divorce. I remember, And I'll refresh Jill's memory. Jill's here, Yeah, Jill's here.

Something happened.

I got a phone call in the dressing room, literally right before I went out on your show.

About your situation.

Yes, and I had a heart attack.

Okay, because I have to tell you. You agreed to do it, and I had met you before and you seemed stunned.

It was funny something happened.

Oh yeah, Which you can't say what happened all these years.

Later, you know what?

Now I can, Okay, I just remember. It took a real experience. I remember you were like, I was like, does she know she's coming here? Like it was as if someone put.

You know mark Berg? Yes, okay, I used.

To I was held on everybody. Mark Berg was a manager of Charlie Sheen and a producer on Two and a half Men, and years before that he used to be I was his assistant, and he worked under Chris Blackwell, if you guys know, he founded the Marleys and Island Records. So I worked for mark Berg and he had to let me go because his wife didn't want me working

So literally, right before I walked out, I got a call that someone close to Charlie's circle was going to hold a press conference and disclose his health situation. He's been open to public right now about HIV, but at the time he wasn't and he was doing anger management, so it would literally I found I got that called thirty seconds before I walked out on stage.

How crazy is that? Like in life, you have an opinion of other people or as an experience, and it's all these years later. I mean, I didn't have a negative opinion, but I thought you were guarded. You don't know what's going on.

It's behind closed doors.

Even in the life, if you even if you like someone takes your parking spot and is a bitch about it, you don't know what happened.

That happened. I know that's what happens.

Oh my god, because because I called Denise to get everyone to where we are today. I've there are certain people I just want to talk to. I feel like, does anyone really know that person fully? And you're one of these people to me that I feel like I've met you and superficially we know each other for so many years, but I don't really know you. And I've always liked you, like you. My energy with you is

For having me.

You're here, and I'm so glad we cleared up many many years ago because.

I had a perception not that not that you weren't nice, but you seemed none why not why.

I was there?

But I was having a heart attack inside and I couldn't even think because it was not a good Yeah.

No, no, I don't mean it in a bad way. I just mean sometimes someone books an interview and then might feel like they don't want to share, And I just thought, oh, interesting. So I said it to Jill and she's like, She'll said to me, she's an open book. I'm like she is, so anyway, Yeah.

Here's a little distracted. Yeah, I'm so sorry.

Yeah, well, you've had a really outrageous, incredible life. I mean, I think about you coming from Illinois, midwestern girl. Yes, I remember that your dad moved into your house. Is it in Calabascia.

Yeah, after my mom passed away. My parents were together since my mom was seventeen and my dad was twenty well actually she was sixteen when they got together, but since she was a teenage young and they stayed together until you know, my mom passed and she was very young, and my dad was going to come for two weeks and was with us for five years, which was such a blessing that my daughters got to have such a wonderful, you know, parental male parental figure in their life, which

Especially, So I am so blessed.

That he was able to and did stay, you know, for as long as he did. And you know, I had such a huge impact on my daughter's early years of growing up.

It's amazing. And I think about you growing up in a Midwestern environment. Did you have a quote unquote normal childhood?

Yeah, I would say, I mean we were actually a Nielsen family and a lot of people don't know this. Born in after whatever nineteen eighty or something. Nielsen were these boxes that they would put back in the day on family's television to record what a typical family. We were a family, four, middle to lower class family, and they wanted to see what we were watching. And I'll never forget when the people showed up and gave it to my parents.

So funny that happen they show up at the door.

I don't you know what.

I have to ask my dad how that happened, because that's now that I think, like, that's weird, Like why would you let these strangers into our house and put a box on our.

Right in twenty twenty three, that would be like, what are you recording?

So yeah, no, we were a typical all American family of four, went to church every Sunday, had dinner together every night at six pm.

So that was our family.

That would be a great sitcom or a really show called and the name is actually the Nielsen's exactly. It's a good idea for a show, to.

Be honest, Well, you should produce that.

I love to. I would love to. What were you guys watching? What does the name?

Okay? So back then, I remember my sister and I we were allowed to stay up late on Friday night nights to watch Dallas, Okay? And I actually told my my husband who's here too, that my dad every Friday night would make us some mint chocolate chip milkshake.

Every we got the milkshake every Friday night.

Uh. And so we would watch Dallas on Fridays. And then I was the Facts of Life girl. I loved the TV show Facts of Life my favorite growing up.

Same.

So, how did you get into acting? Were your parents for it? Was it a great opportunity to sort of get out of the lower middle class? No?

Actually, my dad saw what was that show? A Battle of the Network stars?

Living in Illinois blizzards and it was January and my father told us that he when I was older, that he was he couldn't believe that the celebrities were wearing shorts and a T shirt in January and here we're freezing. And my dad worked for Illinois Bell, the phone company, so we had to climb the telephone polls.

When it was winter.

And so he up and moved our family to California with no job.

Your job. He had a friend that.

Did leave the phone company and form his own payphone company, and my dad eventually worked for him, and my dad would drive every single day from San Diego to Los Angeles collecting the payphones.

He had a payphone route. Wow, this is yeah.

When I was fifteen, Yeah, after my freshman year in high school, we moved.

So you really did have like a very rock well.

You know, we had rock wells, your rock Well scol the sculptures in the book.

That was my mom's favorite thing.

That'sious you said that.

So yeah, yeah, literally you're the in the.

Rock well exactly. That was my childhood.

Okay, So then.

When I was fifteen, my mom submitted me for do you remember the clothing company A Spree? Yeah, oh my god, yes, I was in a Spree model search and then I made it to the finals. I went to to like competition things. And then I came in second and an agent from Los Angeles signed me to model.

Wow.

But I always wanted to act, Like I took drama in school and that was something. But I never thought living in Illinois that was ever a possibility.

Right, But you did dream about it as a kid.

And yeah, I always wanted to act, even when I was younger, but I thought that would never happen because of where I was living, right, California seemed so far right. So, and then when I was I modeled, and then then I just got an agent. I was twenty an acting agent and I played fifteen years old, so I was in the children division of the theatrical agency was Harry Gold at the time, and that was Tracy Gold's father

I booked my first two jobs.

So I was a PA Unsaved by the Bell. I don't know if you know that. No, I was a PA on Save by the Bell for the Beach episode I did buy no. So mine plays tricks on you because years later I'm in my late twenties and thirties, and I'm seeing you and your Denise Richards who's more famous then, and you're in more movies, and I'm like,

We could have been Frances. I was terrified to do that show. I had to pretend like I was drowning. I was so I remember yeah and yes and I yes, yes, Oh my god, all right, So that was saved by the bell.

So sorry so that I didn't realize that. So that was your first That was my free real gig. Okay, So then were you a good actress at that time?

No? I couldn't say a word. I was so nervous. I was so nervous and so naive.

Well, you were also twenties. You're still living with your parents.

No.

I moved out when I was eighteen.

So you moved out when you were eighteen? What area?

Uh? I was Wilcox and Hollywood Boulevard. I remember my friend that modeled too. When I was modeling, I saw her apartment. I had pink carpet, so I wanted her apartment when she moved out. I'm not joking. This was a studio. Yes, And my father came about three weeks later and saw where I was living, and through my shit and a pickup truck and he goes you're moving.

Out of here and you moved to another place.

How because I got some of the units. I'll never forget this. I moved to a place on Bluff Side Drive in Studio City where they had these special units for people that didn't make a lot of money. I forgot what it was called back then. So I qualified for that.

What was your rent? My rent I had? I had six hundred. I was living in an apartment for six hundred dollars.

My pink carpet was six hundred.

That was six hundred.

So I got a deal with the place in Studio City that had like secure gates. You had to go through a gate with you know, security there, and.

So you were responsible for your own finances.

Yeah, I paid. I always paid my everything.

You had jobs in high school too? Or no?

Yeah, I've had so many jobs in high school. My first job was Hoganda's ice cream, which was my favorite. Well, I like, uh well back then it was mint chocolate chip and I love that it was like vanilla.

Well, they also had slab chocolate, which I liked. Versus Baskeroom Robins, it was like the little slivers.

I worked at Robins to see it's not the same. I went back to Hogandas.

I understand so all of us girls in high school worked at Hogandas, and we were terrible. We'd have the boys block the camera and kind of give out free ice cream to some of.

The boys at school. So nice, nice, you know.

But yeah, I worked. Uh, I had a lot of jobs in high school. I started working when I was really young.

Did you have bad experiences with the casting couch or people. I once met with Aaron Spelling's main casting person, Tony something, and he told me that I had to lose like eight pounds and he just I remember feeling like a real loser because I was trying to act. And I remember feeling like having seen the Pink concert last night and listening to her lyrics about how she doesn't look like Britney Spears and when she was trying to be a pop star, how there's like now everybody can fit

Well, I've had many, I you know, it started with modeling. I went to Japan the day after I graduated high school. I was there for at that time for two months and it's ironic.

I remember going there and they wanted me to model bras and underwear.

This was before I had my boobs done, so I was very small and I was but I called my dad crying and my dad was going to come out and get me. So I told the agency what's ironic is then I do wild things and Playboy later. But that's at the time though I was felt very uncomfortable. They were gonna rip up my contract and send me home, but they ended up keeping me.

And if you didn't wear lingerie, yeah okay, but.

They kept me and I still worked even though I didn't do lingerie, and but that it was very awkward going to auditions there at the time because they had us put a bathing suit on, so even if you were modeling a hat, they was just like.

And there's no disrespect there.

It was just at the time with modeling at that time, and it was just eye opening with working and getting into the business. But I said no to so many things when I started working, and then I worked in New York. I had some similar experiences there, but I think it was more.

About just making you feel uncomfortable.

Yeah, yes, yeah, like.

You just feel awkward and you feel like you're doing something wrong. You're not going to get the part.

But well, the agency that I was with in New York, you were expected to go to parties. I would not go. I didn't want to. I didn't want I just wanted to work. I didn't want to, you know, I was very naive about the business. And it was a lot of pushback with the agency with that, and so it made it a little difficult.

But I worked. So that's why they kept.

They wanted you to go to parties. Did you feel pressured to drink or do drugs?

I didn't go to the parties. I wouldn't.

I was the type that would go to bed at nine or ten o'clock at night.

I got up early.

Even then when I started acting, I didn't go to any I wasn't a party girl. I wanted to really study my two lines over and over and over again. I went to acting class a few nights a week, so I really took my job very serious and wanted to do good. I wasn't in that party scene.

As a mother. Do you think that is from your parents or do you think that was just inside of you to have that discipline. I'm very much I take things very seriously and if I do it, I'd do it right, and that in my case, it definitely wasn't my parenting, except that my father was a Hall of fame horse trainer, so I sometimes think that he was just the best at what he does. So maybe it's just genetic, But I think about that because I'm like you,

I think seeing my dad, you know, he had good work ethics, and it's I think that, you know, just being raised that way and you know, to be professional and you show up, you work, you have to do your job.

So I was raised seeing that.

Yeah, it's it's just, yeah, that is that work ethic is entire I think. I think that when people now in the day of filtering and Instagram and the quick fame and instant gratification, I really do always say that I think that the key to success, longevity and success is just that work ethic, that old school work ethic. It could be nineteen fifty, like, it's just are you a person that really like works hard and doesn't count

Yeah, that's how I was, too, and to do one or two lines on these shows. Actually I forgot the name of this one show, and it was basically I was an extra. I was there all day, like, but I didn't care.

Right in the game.

Yeah, yeah, I would work and I would stay. I never complained. I would stay as long as I needed to stay. If I was sick. There's no even you know, throughout my career, if you're sick, you have to show up. There's no one to replace you because you're on camera.

Pros play hurt period. Yes, and I will. I will get into this after with your daughter or your daughters, do you feel like you've instilled that work ethic in them? Do they have a work ethic? I feel like true.

I think that everyone's different though, and I think you know, it's the generation of our our daughters is a little different, and it's hard too because I feel that sometimes it's a quick they want everything right now.

Instant gratification. And also they grew up with a mother who's famous and wealthy and a father who's famous and wealthy, and it's hard to be successful and have money and access and tell them not to you grew up with a father who was climbing up telephone poles Illinois. It's not you can't. It's hard to recreate that, right.

But my daughters weren't born obviously when I started my career and see me, you know, all the auditions I went on and all the rejection and the stuff that I did deal with.

It's funny because they say that fifties moms spent less stay at home mom spent less time with their kids than we do now because we're so use your inside voice and let's talk a bit, you know, and like all this stuff. So it's like, my daughter never really sees me working because I'm so present when I'm with her,

Yeah, it's true, you know, very different.

Yeah. I think for the longest time they thought I worked in a trailer because when they would come to set, they would come in the trailer, see me get my hair makeup done, right, But they wouldn't come on set because god forbid, they made a noise.

Right, right, they screw a take up I did not want.

Yeah, oh my god, what if my kid says something and someone's take messed up?

Yeah?

You know, so I think they thought I worked in a trailer for the longest time.

I don't even think they knew what I did.

Yeah, they really don't see the struggle. That's really interesting. Okay, So now your career when pops off. When you're saying the your wild Things popped it off, or.

Like, yeah, I think that when you experience a successful product like television show or a movie or song, whatever, your career is. The work that it takes to get there is not overnight. But when something hits, that's overnight, right, it's the.

Swell of the wave crests.

And like you say, you go overnight when people when you go from people recognizing you or not and then to recognizing.

You, right, And that was wild Things, and that was like astronomical fame.

You know, you go to the grocery store and people recognize you, or you're on a cover of a magazine. That was weird to see yourself. No one has magazines really anymore. There's only a few, I think. So, yeah, it's very different. But back then, when you're you know, in line buying your groceries and you see yourself on the cover of something, it's weird.

It's it's a little different. Y.

Yeah, So how first of all, how did you handle that? How did that feel? And did you have a support system? Did you have good friends? Like you're in la, You're not in your.

Well, you're out the front. There are certain friends that then get.

Jealous, okay, because they're also actresses.

Because that's where I met friends, was acting classes and you know, the little jobs along the way. The I did so many pilots that didn't get picked up, and you know, became friends with so many different actresses and actors along the way, and some of them I'm still close to and and some of them along.

The way were couldn't handle it.

Yeah, And it's funny they say fame changes, and for some people it does change the person that becomes famous, but sometimes it's the people around you that change.

That's interesting. In my life, fame was one thing, not at that level. But money. When you make money when I want, I had my Forbes cover, that's when people really get crazy. Yeah, because the money. I just always thought they were the same thing. When I saw you unsaved by the bell, I thought like you had to be rich because you were acting, but you definitely weren't. Now that I but but money too, and you added to that absolutely. So you pop off And are you

Because everything a lot of bad choices.

I mean, no. Then like now you're really famous and everything's getting thrown at you and everybody wants something.

From Oh, it's hard because then it's right away, Oh you need to hire I'm so grateful. I Jill was not my first publicist, but I'm so grateful, and we've been together almost my entire career. But there were there was like a year or so where I was with other people, not the best choices, and then it's like, oh, you need a business manager, you.

Need this, this, this.

It's overwhelmed, especially someone in your twenties. You become famous and you're you're a commodity and people you don't know, you're trusting the people around it.

Of course it all sounds great, Yeah, it all sounds great. It all sounds that you need it.

Yeah, yeah, that you need the help in this, But it's also not knowing. I find it overwhelming.

Everything sounds good, Yeah, everything, everything sounds good. It's like a horoscope and everything could apply to you, but it doesn't necessarily apply.

Yeah, because you're young, you're you don't it's it's a totally different job and experience, and so you rely on people that are in your life to help guide you. But I definitely have made a lot of bad decisions for sure.

So did you get really screwed financially many ways? Many And what have you learned? Like what what what is your what is your infrastructure like now?

Like what if I learned if I could go back? I think to follow my gut. That's the thing that's the biggest advice I give my daughters. Always follow your gut. And that was something my mom would always tell me, but I didn't always.

Listen to it.

Is that little voice that's telling you your guardian angels, you know, if something doesn't feel quite right, just listen to it.

Board.

Yeah, that's the biggest lesson that I have and that I've learned, and what I'm trying to teach my daughters is always follow your gut because even if people don't agree with it.

The times you've been screwed over are all of them. You kind of saw it, but you just didn't listen. Yeah, And that was that was business wise? What about personal? Obviously your relationship with Charlie and Richie Sambora was public. Did you date a lot of other actors? Were you in were you like doing the whole scene?

No, I wasn't the type of woman that had to be in a relationship. I was okay being single and alone, so I didn't I have Obviously I dated and dated others, but not long term relationships.

But I I was okay not dating.

And how soon after Wild Things if that's the crest did you meet Charlie?

Probably about four years after four or five years so, but.

You were still at the height of your career. You were very doing very well. Everything was great success wise.

Yeah, I was working a lot.

Because I for me, just being a fan and a viewer, I understand the attraction to Charlie Sheen for you having been in a relationship with someone that had having experienced people who are have addiction, there is the highs are very charismatic and very electric, and those types of people with the promises they make and the excitement and the

I don't, you know?

He's very so so sorry, yeah okay, so oh you have a good relationship with Chari. Okay, great, that's so not that's amazingship. I you know, and I also have I have sympathy for people who suffer from addiction. It is, it is a disease. So I just want to know what that attraction was like. And we're going to get into that ride a little bit. I, first of all, was incredibly naive to addiction.

And when I met Charlie, he was sober for four years, so and people would ask me, oh, are you afraid he's going to relapse or this? For me, there was no question. I said, no, I don't. I didn't know that person. I only knew who I met, and that was a man who had been sober for four years. I didn't judge him for his past because I figured, well, his past made him who he is today. And the person that I met was very different from the person that spiral during I didn't, you know.

I didn't know that. I thought I didn't know that he had already been recovering for well he was.

And a lot of people said, oh, you you reformed the bad boy or this. I said, no, I he was. I wouldn't have dated him. I didn't know that if I met him when he was in his addiction, deep in addiction, he was sober and a completely different person.

So that's who I.

Met And did he so he so? Did he not? He didn't drink or do anything else. So was it boring? Was it exciting?

I'm just yeah. I wasn't a partier, so I was I didn't want to be with wasn't thinking, Oh shoot, I just started dating Charlie Sheen and I just read all these crazy stories about him, and how come we're not doing it? That wasn't part of it. And also, you know, back then we didn't have social media. It was all the tabloids. Obviously, I knew what was in the tabloids and just knew bits and pieces, and I didn't know what was true what wasn't true about his past.

We are and.

To get here, Well, what was your thought about him?

I really liked his work ethic. I thought he was a great actor. I thought it was funny. He was very kind, and you know, obviously there was an attraction in chemistry with with he and I and and so then it you know, evolved into a relationship. And also I wasn't one of these actresses either that was dating all my co stars. That wasn't my thing either. I there was only one other actor I dated that I worked with, and I dated him before we work together.

Do you know what I mean?

He just jumped off the page or pursued you.

Well, because I think we worked on a movie a year prior and we had a lot of mutual friends. We just you know, started talking more and just had.

It started as a friendship.

It started kind of a friendship.

And where was being a bond girl and Playboy before this?

Playboy bond before Playboy after?

So bond was before? What was it like to be a Bond girl? Like just saying the pressure of doing it or after?

Well, I had never People don't believe me, but it's true. I had never seen a movie. I believe I was cast. I flew I auditioned for it in la and then they I'll never forget this because it was Thanksgiving. They flew us to do screen tests with peers and I think there were six of us actresses. I brought my dad because I was sad to miss Thanksgiving, and so my mom had my dad go with me while I screen tested in London.

But they were freaking out. Your parents were like, you're going to be a Bond girl at.

The well, I didn't know if I was going to get the part.

I had to fly there to do a screen test, and they fly, Yeah, they flew. They took very good care of us, and I went an audition. I was nervous as hell. I had to do scenes with peers at Pinewood Studios where they shot, and it's a very well known studio. I do the screen test and fly back to LA and then Jill set me up with an interview with details magazine. I think it was Our D I can't remember. I'm literally with the journalist when I get the call that I got the part.

Oh did you tell the journalist?

Yeah?

I was like, oh, I just got bond and he was like, what, what the fuck? You're gonna be bond girl. I'm like yeah, I go, well that's good.

I'm excited.

And he was like he was so excited that he was able to break it. But then I get home and it's on CNN and everywhere, and I was like, I call my agent. I'm like, why is this such a big deal? Why am I on the news about a role I got? Goes, Do you understand this movie?

I'm like, no, that's amazing, that's so amazing. No one can ever take that away from you. Were your parents freaking out? Come on, your parents had to be freaking Yeah.

That I would say is when internationally when things really chang, because I shot the movie. So I remember it was Thanksgiving that I auditioned, and then January they fly me out there with They let me bring my mom to look for an apartment because it was a six month shoot. So we find an apartment and then fly back and then I had to fly back again film six months, wrap in June and the movies out in November.

Wow.

And then I'm on a month long press tour worldwide.

That's fine.

I was like, oh my god, the fans for this. There's a lot of people here.

That's amazing.

It was crazy. That's really a crazy experience.

That's a ride. That's amazing. Wow, that's so cool. Okay, So then you're with Charlie and you have a pretty normal relationship. You're like, he's sober, you're in love, You're just a normal relationship, Hollywood normal.

Yeah, No, we were.

And then I get pregnant with Sammy, and that was probably a year into our marriage. I have Sammy. Five months later is when I shot Playboy. Okay, And I remember Playboy asking if he wanted to be the photographer.

If Charlie would be the first a photographer.

No, that's why it was like, No, they wanted to get behind the scenes of him shooting me. They said, the photographer can set up the shot, he just has to put the Oh yeah, they just wanted that.

Whole thing do it.

No, because he he got Two and a Half Men while I was pregnant, and so then he went into production, so he was, you know, nervous about starting a new TV show after God then City got canceled and so he got that, which, by the way, I read the script.

And I'm like, you have to do this show.

Oh, you were part of the decision.

Oh he was going to do a different show.

Oh weird.

And I read the script. I go, you're crazy for not doing this.

That's amazing. And that obviously was his most huge instrumental role in his whole life. Wow. So, now why did the wheels fall off? Was it about a holiday? I mean about a Hollywood relationship? Did the wheels fall off for him first? Did they fall off for you both together?

Oh? No, I think because the success of Two and a Half Men and the money I think led to him getting back into being sober, but he was in.

He was he believed his own you know, I drank his own crate.

Something that he would have to answer, right, I just know it that he was no longer the person I married.

He was on a hit show. And was he on a low in his career before that?

Well?

He, I mean he did.

He was on a low before he got Spin City, right, replacing Michael J. Fox, And he did a great job on that one, a golden globe. He had to go through struggles, and he's very public about that, with not working for quite quite a few years because of his addiction. And but I think the with the fame and the success of that show, whatever that is, that's something for him to talk about.

But all I know is he.

Was no longer the person that I married and no longer sober.

So and how quick did that happen? So the show was, it was an instant hit, It was explosive, and then how quick did you start to see?

Well we got let's see, after Sammy was born. I got pregnant six months later with Lola, and I filed for divorce when I was six months pregnant?

Now, how bad is your family life inside? Like in what because we're reading in the tabloids, how insane is what's going on your house?

Or is it well insane enough for me to file for divorce six months pregnant?

Right?

It wasn't like I moved out and we had a little separation.

It was get out. Yeah, we got to get out. And what about your parents or what are they saying? Did they understand why you married Charlie? Are they like who is this person? What are we doing?

They? Yeah, they liked Charlie and they were very supportive of us being married and getting married. Like I said, he was very different from what the public saw when he spiraled after all that stuff with publicly when after two and a half men, when he was fired and going through all that with the Tiger Blood and all that show.

So when you file how soon?

There was a lot of stuff.

Obviously people did not know that it was not public, But when I filed it was basically he went to work. I packed a suitcase and took our daughter, who is just not even one, and went to the Beverly Hills Hotel and I went to file for divorce and went to a fitting for a pilot that I was doing.

So how bad is it publicly? Then? Like what's going like? What's going on publicly?

It was again, I was stupid. I was shocked that it was so public. I thought, oh, it'll just be a little blurb. It wasn't a little blurb. It was we were on the cover of tabloids for a couple of years. I was insane and I couldn't understand why.

And where was he in his career and in this public aspect on.

The hottest show ever?

And they wanted to protect him, and they knew something must be mad for the wife where no one read stuff about us, And that's that's the thing now, looking back, why people weren't quite surprised was because it wasn't as though people saw us fighting in public or again, there was no social media where people could, but even at that we weren't the type of couple to do that. They saw us three weeks earlier at the SAG Awards, and then three weeks later, I'm filing for freaking divorce.

And it was just the first time you saw like the spin of fame, like fame biting you in the ass, like.

You well, it was the spin of my personal life being so public. I was not getting at that moment any negative publicity. It was people felt bad for me, Oh my god, things must be really.

You were sympathetic because you were pregnant. Yeah, you were a woman and.

So but I and I didn't want anything bad for him either, you know, negative in the press. I didn't want that. I didn't want it to be so public. But it was what it was, which is very difficult. It's hard enough going through a divorce or anything, you know, personally, but then to deal with it so publicly, as you know, it's really hard.

I was thinking, you've been churned through the machine many times, I mean a lot of times over and over, being turned through the machine, no or not really.

Back then, yeah, yeah, and that was a big risk for me that could have gone either way. I took a big risk doing that. I thought this could maybe I won't ever work again. But it was such an amazing project and a great script and good people involved.

I felt like it was worth the risk.

That was risky. Playboy it was risky too. You're on top of the world and then you're doing Playboy.

Well I did Playboy when, and like I said, I was you know, I felt like it was also a little I was offered it actually during right after Wild Things or I don't remember, but I turned it down, and then they came back again after Sammy was born, and I thought, well, you know what, why not It's okay to show that I can be a mom and still be perceived as sexy. It doesn't mean well.

That's coming that comes into play with the only fans, which I'm really interested in too. But all right, so Charlie, the wheels come off, and then but the wheels haven't yet come off at work because he's just like a Hollywood bad boy and he's still working, he's still making money. So when does this really devolve? Like because hete because what we saw publicly was like it was kind of like Kanye ish, like Kanye was on.

Wheel when his wheels fell off to your.

Work, because well, his wheels are your wheels. His wheels came off, and then it became it always splattered back. Yeah.

I mean anytime there was anything public about him, I would for some reason be dragged in, Right, that's what I saw. But we were divorced quite a few years. That's the thing that people but you're co parenting, were co parenting. So I know because it was twenty eleven because that's when always the year she was born. But he was fired in twenty eleven from two and a half men. I filed for divorce in two thousand and five,

His wheels fell off, went to and half men.

But you were trying to co parent while no one else saw. What I'm saying is it reminds me of, for some reason, of Kim and Kanye, because Kanye everyone loved and respected. He's so entertaining and he's a genius. And you know that Charlie was a genius and charismatic, and no one's thinking about his addiction because they're watching this entertaining show, and it's making all this money and it's the highest paid actor on television, and Kanye was

Yeah, that's when it happened.

Yeah, so I'm saying, did you feel any Not that you wanted that to happen to him, but like somebody seeing your side of it first, you're not, you know, because you got so so so trashed in the past.

I think there there was definitely a part of me that felt okay, now, I think people understand without me saying it, what was going on, and that there was a lot going on behind closed doors that I didn't divulge and I didn't say and and to be painted as someone so bad by a lot of people on his side was very hard for me because I had a whole studio, I had very powerful men that were involved in his production that tried to paint me as this horrible person when all I was trying to do

And this is why you're not together. While we weren't together, Oh so you had a sort of amicable co parenting relationship.

We went through ups and downs.

There was a period when I took care of his sons, and then there was a period when things were really bad. So it would go up and down, and so during the times where it was up, I wanted to have the girls experience wonderful moments with their dad and I, and I wanted them to see us be able to be together at whether it's a birthday party or whatever. We did go on vacation together, and it might sound

Underneath all the craziness. It sounds like that says a lot about both of you. I went through a very public ten year divorce and stayed quiet too, and it's impossible because you know what's really going on, and you don't feel vindicated, and you feel like you're a villain. And I really relate to that. But also that a child's daughter's first relationship is with her dad with a man, so you have to really try to foster that being positive.

What, right, yeah, no matter what happens.

That's really amazing, shock, it's amazing and shocking, and so you went through a complete ship storm beyond belief. And what were the financial ramifications of that from his because he's he's supporting supposed to be supporting you or child support at alimony and his show.

And again I go back to there is certain advice I would give someone going through a divorce is to settle it as soon as possible, because the people that make the money.

Are the lawyers. Right.

I spent a fucking fortune.

Million, I spent millions millions, same million.

Yeah.

No, yeah, it's a lot, and you can't get out.

No.

I felt like sometimes they would meet for drinks, our lawyers when we would get along and say what can we do to try to fuck this up so that we can continue like stringing this out. I don't know if they did, but that's how I felt, because it was just it was things would be good and then something would happen.

I was like, oh my fuck.

It's really hard. But it's impossible to even implement that because both parties are never hearing you, and people often hate the other person more than they love their kids.

It's terrible and it becomes about something else, and that's what it shouldn't be. But we didn't have a prenup. But I also I didn't go after half of I could have gone after half of two and a half. Men, I was with him when yes, you know all of that, and a lot of people have said that I was a gold digger and all this stuff. And that's the thing that was terrible when we were going through our divorce, like, oh my god, if they only knew.

Oh they thought you were going after the two and a half.

Yeah, but you know what I could of Yeah, by the way, rightfully so, and I think I would have deserved every fucking penny. What I had to deal with. The money was the last thing that we dealt with. It was more about the custody, yeah, and all of that stuff. And that's the thing that was so hard, was you know, thank god my kids were so young at the time because they but they would hear little things as they started to get older, and I lied to them all the time, and yeah, it was it was not easy.

But did you have you able to have any compassion about the fact that he is an addict and so he's making these promises he literally is capable.

Of absolutely And that's the thing that that's why I protected him and lied to the girls. Is because I didn't ever want to trash him. I didn't want to say anything negative about him. I would cover up for him as much as possible because I didn't want to influence their relationship with each other, no matter what my feelings were at the time on and off with him.

Very mature. It is important too, it's important. And did he want custody or it was just was it a battle about that?

Or it was more about the fight.

And this is like sometimes I say to when people I get asked a lot about divorce and custody and moms and dads that will reach out to me and and you know, I finally was just like what do you want? What do you want? Yeah?

I was like this this is I go. Done. And then it was like okay, I go.

You got it a new thing each time, you know what I mean?

Yeah, I think it was more about the fight and to keep it engage us engaged.

Well, it's a passion and that's that's the addiction too. It's something to focus on and obsess over.

But then he was also going through another divorce while going through our divorce.

Was he leaning on you during that like off and on.

He would go back and forth between the two.

Of us and are you friends with her?

Yeah?

Yeah, that's amazing. And Aaron was just here saying he's friends with Charlie, So I don't know, you have to so I.

Could say, there's hope if he and I, by the way, yeah, be in a room or vacation or have dinner together, or him and I want to go on.

A vacation with you and Charlie Sheen. That's just what I'm saying. I'm just saying that, And Aaron like, I just can I be invited? I just really do I want.

To if we could fly on your plane, yes.

Perfect, I will get a plane if we can all go, I will one hundred get a plane because I I really want to be on the vacation Desine, Okay, yeah, I just I've always Yeah, I have compassion. I'm sympathetic to someone who has addiction. I'm really I really think it's so admirable that you all have a modern family. Yeah, you're a modern family, and that you literally all I mean you is Charlie she and a good father.

I wanted him always to be the best dad he could be. And now and he's you know, he's not my father, right, but I always want him. And that's why I was always so supportive is because I and why I would help him, because some people would be like, why are you helping him? You know he's done so much to you, or are you still in love with him? I'm like, no, I want him to be the best version of himself.

For our daughters. He's their dad, no matter what happens.

So I've always wanted that for him and for our kids and for his boys.

And is he doing a good job with that today?

He's great.

That's good. And do you think that because he says that's it, I'm not never going back. I'm never going to touch anything again. Do you believe that he like is very that his addiction is first in his priorities?

Like I believe that his addiction is first in his priorities.

That's amazing.

I was ignorant when we got together about a day because I wasn't educated about addiction, and that's why I never thought he would ever relapse ever. Because I wasn't educated, I was very naive. I think I know his intention is with any addict that gets sober, their intention is to be sober, so but you.

Are more aware. So you and the girls are like creating the support system to I wouldn't.

I'm not one of these that's always like, oh I wonder if he's going to relapse. It's just it's day by day, yeah, with you know, I have a nephew who's an addict, and he, you know, is doing good today, but and his intention is to do good today. But I've learned, and I've been educated with addiction that all I can do is just be supportive. But mine and Charlie's talks aren't always about sobriety.

Oh no, you know what I mean.

Like we're talking about children, his boys, you know, and also with his X and the dynamic of all of that.

So we all help each other.

Your grown ups, your community, and you.

Want to be grown ups. There's life is too short to not.

Yeah, but for people who have been in relationships with addicts or have family members, it really it's just amazing because I'm thinking about all the crazy things that he did say publicly, and like it really can mess with your mind, It can messed with like you.

What he has said about me was awful and hurtful, and this is not an easy road, and it hasn't been. I've been through hell and back with him. But at the end of the day, I'm one that is very forgiving and I like to move forward and keep things as peaceful as possible.

And clean exactly.

I don't like to bring up shit and harp on. It's just like, it is what it is. Let's move on, let's move forward.

And that's why you ended up being a decent housewife. We'll get into that.

Jesus.

No, but that is that is that's amazing. No, that's very I.

Think people have a hard time understanding that about me.

They well, it's funny because I had Hillary Clinton on here and she people really wanted her to not forgive Bill. You know what I'm saying. They really wanted her to

I really feel because a lot of people ask me if I regret marrying him, and I absolutely do not, because I know that we came into each other's lives to have our daughters, and if we were not together, we would not have our daughters.

So we were.

Our journey was as a married couple was cut shorter.

Than what I thought. I thought.

You know, I didn't think when I was getting married, oh, this is going to end up in divorce. I'm sure a lot of other people did, thinking, oh, Charlie Sheen's getting married, you.

Know, yeah, but you're still in each other's lives.

Right, and we have daughters, and as shit, hell, everything was, it is what it is, and it was part of the journey.

It was part of the journey. It's also now it's two actors coming up in Hollywood. It's a lot of ingredients in that pile, you know.

It's there's no handbook on There's a lot of books on going through divorce and families and blending families, but there isn't really one, and it's not to It's not like woe is me or poor us because we're in the public, but there isn't a handbook on dealing with it publicly. It's embarrassing and humiliating dealing with this shit and for my kids. So that's the hard thing that that's the hardest thing that it's been like navigating that part of it.

Oh well, you know, and in each part of it, you've got a deal over here, a movie over here, a part over here, and they're judging you based on what's coming on over here. And he's got the same thing, and he's losing shows because of it, and together, it's just it's torching the whole kingdom, to be honest, It's like people don't realize it's it's it is. It does reflect what divorces are like for other people, just on

Only Fans is whatever you want it to be.

And to me, I thought of it as back in the day when you would join a fan club.

Okay, okay, you know what I mean.

Okay, that kind of thing.

And yes, is there stuff on there that's more scay, Sure.

There's a spectrum.

You're saying.

It's whatever you want it to be. Okay, So what you don't have to do anything you don't want to.

But what it's a So it's a site for fans to get exclusive content, exclusive content, so video content okay, so.

And pictures and pictures and communicating whatever and messaging people.

So it's a world and it's a it's a business for many people, right, it's like a business.

I learned it. It's a business.

Okay.

I didn't know at the time though, So.

Some people are TikTok famous, and some people are Instagram famous and some people are like only fan famous, right, like I have to be famous.

I don't know that.

No, there's a lot of people on OnlyFans that are not uh household names that are. There's a lot of different people on there that do different things, and like.

A niche like Cameo had different categories of people that would send messages.

And it's also but it's also some people do you know cooking or you know building?

How normal cooking like you know, be wearing sexy You could do normal cooking.

You can do normal cooking on there.

There are not fans cooking.

I do potato could be you should, Yeah, it's.

Why can't I do caviar baked potato cottages.

They would like if you were naked, but okay, you.

Could naked, Babe could naked.

Maybe you could do whatever you want. It's whatever you maked potatoes. I think that what gave it a perception was a lot of adult film actors are on the page, and so I think that's where it came from.

I don't know.

I actually don't know, to be honest with you, But all I know is my daughter joined it and she got so much backlash, and I was so upset. I was upset for her because I know what that's like to get backlash.

For something and to have people say stuff. And she's so young.

She's nineteen. Yeah, she's nineteen, and she was eighteen when she was eighteen, which is very young, right, But what is she? What was she she went on there? What was her job?

She's not showing she was in school. She didn't have like a job job, but she she wasn't even showing topless, so she.

Still got backlash.

She was just being like she was wearing bathing suits or I've never been on her page.

Why you can't do handle it?

I thought, well, I would think it. Sometimes it's weird for me to even go on my kids' instagram because I'm like, I don't know, it's.

Just a no. I saw one of my daughter's thirteen year old friends in a sexy Halloween costume and I thought, holy shit, so thirteen year old are just in lingerie and I thought it was provocative. I imagine your eighteen year old daughter just being in a bathing suit is not?

Is your on social media?

Yes, she's on TikTok and Instagram. She's she's very young, like she's even thirteen.

Isn't it kind of weird though to see her on a social it was weird for me.

Yes, but I snapped the leash when it's like it feels a little provocative and it's not. But she's thirteen.

I tried to snap in that at thirteen, and yes, but when they're eighteen, it's a little different.

No, it is total. I'm a kid with you. And I was saying Paul last night about some of Prince's friends that I've seen. I said, I don't think it's only because of my quote unquote good parenting. I think some kids just are real curious, real early and just trying to get out there. And they want they want to be their boy crazy or a girl crazy. They just they want to get out there. It's just it's just inside of.

It, right, So different generations.

You're saying, your daughter is on this site and got a lot of heat even though she's not not naked, she's wearing.

Yeah, And so I decided, well, fuck it, I'm gonna open up an account.

I'll see what this is.

Oh okay, And so you open up an account and not with her, your own account, No, no. Okay, so she hasn't seen yours and you haven't seen her.

No.

Interesting, but Aaron has seen yours, and has Aaron seen.

Anybody's He has not seen my daughter, so he doesn't even know how to get on the damn side.

I don't even know what the site is. But have you seen Denise's He shoots a lot of my Aaron shoots the content but doesn't see the result. Okay, So how lucrative? Is only fans for your daughter and for you? Is she supporting herself on this?

Yeah?

Wait, like is it like people are making millions of dollars a year or just like one hundreds? A lot of people make that, so it's a real income, Like she's yeah, okay.

You can make a lot of money on it.

And I feel like she sort of like messed around with the reporters, like taunting them by saying she's a sex worker, like she was paying around.

She didn't understand. This is where I think I am trying to get them to understand, be very careful what you say.

Okay, what you post.

I said this from day one when they got their social media accounts.

Wait, who's they meaning?

My daughters both are no no, no, Lola is not on OnlyFans, but just social media. And okay, I said, you always have to be careful whatever photos you sent to your friends or what you put in writing anything. I said, you have to be very careful because nothing is private. I don't care what you think it's not. And so from the very beginning of them going on social media any you know, social media, TikTok or Instagram, whatever,

When I read about it, I took it that she was.

I don't play the sex workers comment she made I believe on an Instagram post.

Oh and now she's reframing it.

Yes, it so smart, I believe.

Yeah.

So I think it was there that she said it.

And it didn't land. But now she's reframing.

It and she was surprised.

I believe how it was taken and she didn't mean it that way. And so now with Bussele, I thought she did a great job with the article, and you know she was trying to I believe, reframe it.

Yeah, and I think she did. I think she did a great job. And also I feel like, how is a mother. You were young, you were an actress, you were living in your six hundred dollars apartment, you did Playboy, So it's hard for you to say you can't do this. I mean not that she would listen to you, and she's an adult, but she won't.

I mean, she's of age and she can do whatever the hell she wants. It's hard at times, and I don't always agree with every decision. My parents I'm sure didn't agree with every decision. I'm sure my dad doesn't agree with every decision I make, even now as a grown up, you know, but as a parent, I have to let her.

Grow.

But I'm here for her, and I try to also guide her and try to explain certain things too. And I think it is a very difficult thing for kids. You'll see as your daughter gets older, being the daughter of someone famous, and how it's going to be when she's evolving into being having boys like her and having maybe boys say things about her mom or do you know what I mean. Yeah, that's a whole different dynamic too, changing. Yeah,

To be a hypocrite and say you can't do this exactly, but people are are people blaming you? The mom shamers like blaming you.

I don't read any of that crap. I'm sure they're blaming both Charlie and I, you know, between the two of us.

I'm sure they're like these two fuck ups.

You know, you're tall, I've had everything and under the sun set about me. I'm like, I'm not going to read their negative bullshit. Already know what the negative comments will be.

If I see a.

Positive one, I was like, oh god, that's nice. And then I stop at that one, and then I won't read anything else.

Right, And where does Charlie stand on all of this? Where's where is he? Well?

When he when she first did only fans, he was not happy and I think was public about it, which she didn't appreciate. And uh, he's changed his tune.

You guys are being supportive and all together.

I mean he changed his tone when she bought a Mercedes and moved into a house.

So I was like, maybe this ain't so bad after all, when.

She bought the Mercedes and moved to your house.

Okay, So so I mean, I don't want.

To speak for him, but I would love he's one of my people. When people ask me, now, who one of who my dream guest is after, I'm gonna say Charlie that, yeah, i'd like to have him.

I think he's very interesting.

I think the story is interesting. I think i'd like to think that happen. Okay, I really do. I have a natural interest in that