“Clip, clip, clip” with Tyler Florence

We're heading back to rony Derinda fights old school with Sonya while the ladies lunch in the Bronx. Despite the tension between myself and Ramona. We all had to Vermont for a snowy weekend, but over dinner, Tinsley feels ganged up on when the group discusses her current life decisions My Body, My Choice.

Chef.

Television and podcast host Tyler Florence joins me to break down the episode. This is Real Housewives of New York Season nine, episode thirteen, a Bronx tale. Let's get into it.

Good to see you. It's been a while.

It's been a while. It's been a while. I don't even know if you remember where we met.

Was it Sundance? Was it chef Dance?

Chef Dance, That's exactly where you met. That's exactly where we met. It was and I don't remember what year it was. It must have been like two thousand and six, thousand and seven, something like that. We were the group they were hosting it before you hosted it.

Oh that first year that I went, oh, yeah, okay, great. I remember I was a guest. I was like someone's plus one exactly. That's amazing. Did you kind of start that? Because that was an amazing you do.

Well, I didn't start it starting. I hosted the second year. So rock CoA spirited rocko to spirit. I hosted it the first year and I hosted it the second year.

Well that's telling because that was like my only goal in life then was to kind of just like be in like a you be in your world, be on TV as a chef, or like to be associated. I've always been fascinated by chefs since years ago. I used to produce events and we used to do like the Emmys or the Grammys, and we'd get to we had

I was always enamored by it.

Those events are fine, yeah, but.

I mean it's it's really wow.

So I was you are like a rock star, but always have been to me, And I know your friends with Amy who produces this show.

So the Sugarman, Yeah, you call her the sugar Man. That's really funny.

Yeah, So what are you up to, like what's going on in life, Like what are your biggest.

Projects right now?

Kinds of great stuff. Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me on your podcast.

Of course, thank you for having to be.

Here with your audience. Because I'm not like a huge Real Housewives watcher. You know this, I've seen a couple episodes, so we'll kind of jump into episode thirteen, season nine, right, we'll kind of jump it out. Yeah, but what a phenomenon and what a ride you've been on with this whole thing.

It was a crazy, crazy ride. Yeah, it's been well, like anything. I mean, look, you know, it's what you make of it. I mean, it's what you try to make chicken salad on chicken shit. It's chicken shit. It's me being a chef dance just wanting to be in your world and trying to figure out how to capitalize it and then make the money later. I mean, as a chef in the beginning, you probably made no money.

Well, I think it's interesting that you just saw the value of being out there, and I think that's a really good life lesson for a lot of people like you can't necessarily think about the money as you need to think about your career and build it and know that if you're doing what you love and you're in the right place at the right time, money's going to follow. Money's going to show up one way or the other, right, especially because you just get a name for yourself and

But that's the frosting, Like the base is your restaurants, because if the food's not good at those base restaurants and if the business isn't running properly, and if you didn't have the foundation, there'd be no frosting. So I guess the restaurants has got to be delicious.

It's not about the frosting. It's about the cake. The cake has to be like worth it, right, And so I think there's things you make money on, and there's things you make money with. Right. You make money on your reputation as a great chef, but you make money with the credibility of being a real legitimate chef and a real legitimate you know, restaurant tour the house chops, yes, yeah, So with.

The foundation the structure of the cake. I mean, it's a great analogy because the base cake on its own can be fine and can be boring, but it has to have a good substance, good texture, good structure. And I feel the same way. And I think I come in contact with so many young people that are thinking about the money first, the lunch break, the hourly, the benefits, those things that are important to be value. But I just never thought of any of that in the beginning.

Yeah, and you have to be. And I think it's a really great life lesson for everybody out there, yeah, trying to figure out, like do you and I listen to I think everybody has probably done this a couple of times, taken like the quick short road somewhere in your career. You know, if there's no regrets, I wouldn't change five minutes of my life anywhere, because even I think some of the mistakes have been really good life lessons,

Yeah, but I think you end up. I think all roads lead to rome. I think you kind of go down different paths, but somehow there's certain things that you always get pulled.

Back to the things you really love to do.

Like there are many ways to get there, but you kind of find yourself there. I think like, whether it wasn't podcasting, would it be a speaking tour? Would that would those two things be so different? I don't think so. It'd be just conveying a message. But I was always going to be like messaging, It's just who I am. So I think that's interesting. You could have been like you could have been doing you know, the Veguus cooking tours on stage. It's different, but you would still be you.

So anyway, yeah, well yeah, so television like landed in my life twenty seven years ago. It was nineteen ninety six. I had my first opportunity on Food Network and I was the executive chef in an Italian restaurant called Chibo in New York City on forty second and second, okay, and the restaurant just closed to you, by the way, I mean, it was just such a what it was open for twenty something years. It was crazy, and you know,

Oh wow, wow, that's.

Like I knew exactly what everybody does. I know all the positions in the room. I know what my camera was, right, I knew it.

That's amazing. That's amazing. Find it you out, that's amazing. So I like, you don't really watch the Housewives either. I do for this show and I've been on it, but I used to not really watch even myself except for just to see if I was in trouble or not. So it's not like I'm I'm, I'm right exactly. So I'm I'm Obviously I'm not fluent in Housewives. I mean, I speak the language and I can completely get by, but I'm not like an expert on all the characters.

Obviously, this show I am in, so I remember.

But it's funny because when we just sat down right now and I watched this yesterday and I lived it, I was thinking, let me look at my notes.

He's talking.

Wait a second, what was this way Ramona where we're And I was like, oh, I was in this one, So now I remember. So this is the Housewives, and this is like I think that this particular group for the most part, with maybe one or two exceptions, but this group is like the real group of like New York broads on the Housewives. So I'll remind you names,

So there's a dance. You order the whole left side of the menu.

I would, or the whole thing. Well, especially if it's a restaurant, I want to check out right because I want to walk ei of there and not miss anything.

That's your job, though, I feel like that's that's fully It's a tax, right.

Do you ever take food home? U?

Yeah? Sometimes sure? I mean, like, god, where did we go? I mean recently, there's a restaurant just open up in Oakland and it was like a burger place and a friend of mine just opened it. I literally, I think there was like eleven or twelve things on the menu. I ordered the whole menu.

You literally, But do you say to them just give me half of the portions because I.

Know I want to see it. I want to take pictures, I want to taste it. I want to see what it's all about. Also was their first night of opening too, so I'm like, it's nice for a restaurant to get their reps in.

Well for you, you're also going to put them on the map. I mean, so they want to give you everything that's not waste, that's advertising for them. But like so you'll say, can I take some of this home?

Sometimes? Sure? Yeah, of course. I mean I do it at my own restaurant all the time. Like so, we have a steakhouse in San Francisco called Miller and Lux right, and and so like I tay, I definitely the big bone on the Tomahawk.

I was thinking. I was literally just thinking a big bone. I was thinking a bone in.

Dog that's right there behind my shoulder, bad badly Roy Brown bad a dog in the whole damn town loves it when Daddy comes home with a bone.

Okay, so I am not ashamed to take food home.

But anyway, this group liked when I ordered because of what I'll order and they don't have to think about it because we're in the action. And also because there's not a lot of waste, so I take them to this restaurant Auto Novae I think it's called Yeah, and what do you what do you think of these people? So now you have Carol comes in wearing a Safari outfit, which I thought was hilarious, Tinsley's wearing a ball gown, and then the broads and those are the two that

To be past with a little heat on or still from you fully marinated.

If you just like liter if you put him match and you add another cocktail, she's going in flames.

It's yeah.

So she was a very good housewife.

So what do you think about this dynamic she's calling sonya?

I think an ass wipe?

Yeah. And then there was like the clip clip clip, What the funk that means? Like, like, what does that mean? Shut up?

Shut your mouth?

I think shut your mouth, clip clip I've never heard that. Have you ever heard that before? Is that a face say that.

Never since then, never in my life either. That's the first time I've ever heard. Now, yes, it's a meme because and Derinda will go below the belt, which is effectively what The Real Housewives is about. It's about signing up and you never know what you're gonna get in that box of chocolates. And so what's happening here is Sonya Basically there's a previous thing where she did what I call a cheater brand, and she she partnered with someone on a brand called Tipsy Girl and cocktails.

So I created the whole Yeah.

And this is the same time you're launching skinny Girl.

No, skinny Girl has been a success, it's already launched. And I was the first one ever to do cocktails on this show, and even one of the first really public people.

But now they're coming on.

And I took the bait in another scene with Sonya, and I basically say to her, I want nothing to do with you because of the cheater brand and I don't like copycats, and I take the bait, which is a rookie move. I should have just been like, oh, that's adorable and not talked about it. It wouldn't have aired, but for some reason it really bothered me and I took the bait. So now Sonya's basically saying, wait a minute, Ramona thought about doing that deal, and so did Drinda,

I couldn't even follow the conversation, to be honest with you, right, So so back up a little bit, because I actually watch it with my wife. I'm like, God, translate this for me because I'm a dude. Okay, I don't understand. I don't love us standing the way women talk to each other like that sometimes like what are they saying? She goes, ooh, this is what you got to look out for, and ooh this is what so okay, so

Yeah, a cheeter brand is Snapple Smartphones, you know, like it's a cheater brand. So I had a brand called Skinny Girl, and then on my show, they're doing a show called Tipsy Girl. And when the producers see that fruit that's ripe, they want to bring it down. So I'll take the bait, which I did.

Yeah. So Sony was on Worst Cooks in America too, by the way, right, So, and she was launching you know, she seems like very like publicity oriented, right, I mean, and she just wants to take everything U say as in commercial. Yes. So she was on Worst Cooks in America and I have got this like thing pull up on my screen. I remember what season it was. Right, as a matter of fact, well's Adams, who's my co host on Two Dudes in a Kitchen. By the way,

Oh you're asking me? Well, so first of all, she no, you can. I think you can make a lot.

Well, now they have like now Breville has like major ones, and then now they have air fryer and toaster oven. So I'm actually curious. So I feel like, let's go through it. If you had like oysters that you wanted to like broil with some cream, spinach over and some bread crumbs, you could do that in a toaster oven.

You think that sounds kind of nice. Brebel makes really nice ones.

Yeah, right, Like you're not roasting a whole chicken in the toaster oven. But you can make flat bread, you could make you can make couldn't you make a lot of things? Like what could you not make in a toast drive?

And you could how about twenty pounds of lamb chops? Right?

But she's only she's saying she's the single woman who lives in her townhouse and that you don't need I'm trying to think of all the things that I could make in my toastrove, and I'm thinking about like, uh, you can make chicken tenders and tots and I mean, I'm thinking about crab cakes you could broil in there. I mean, I feel like, do you use an air fryer.

I think the technology has really come a long way as inter affected. This company reached out to me on Instagram direct message the other day and I did some research on their product, and I'm like, Okay, that's kind of hot, you know, especially like in a restaurant situation when you just need a little heat and a little crisp and a little cheese melt right that a full oven is just sort of like a little too bulky and a little too overkill.

Like a salamander's like to like it's on, it's on flames, it's too much.

Well, it's just it's like it's too big of a piece of equipment. You can't move it right. And so once those things get installed and gas lines get right, yeah, get laid in, you can't really move that. That's like permanent decision that you with a restaurant. As you change the menu, it may not stick around. So I think sometimes having this equipment that does one good specific job in air fires, I think they make things brown and melt cheese really really well.

Hold on, I'm going to give you homework for the first time. I think anyone's probably giving you homework in like forty years. That people really believe and I've done it, that you're taking like a bagel once it's out of the freezer and you can defrost a little, and that you airfry a bagel, because think about it, you get this like crisp on the outside and the inside is like steamy. It's like reconstituting a bagel, which you can

Well, you know, the first of all, you can do the same thing technically with a convection option on the oven exactly, right, So that's kind of the same thing.

So the difference is kind of is it really the same crisp though.

It's a little more concentrated. It's a difference between having like a fan in the back of your oven and having a hair dryer on something. Right, It's like that.

It's so yes, I get it exactly because I thought exactly because it sounds like a convection of it has got that noise.

Right because it's it's literally blowing and circulating super hot air, which is just going to like give you more of a rounded sort of crisp crisp texture and around, you know, more even color.

It's like a on our steam. It's like everywhere. Yeah, I agree with you. And they make I don't know why this is so funny. We're talking about the rewives. We're not talking about it at all. They make this one machine that I have that is gigantic, almost like a massive look cruse pan and you can put a whole chicken in it and you see like the air it's like and it's two air fried chicken, but like you could see the whole thing.

It's not like those handle ones.

You could do the whole chicken, the whole chicken, bones, the whole.

Everything, and air fried chicken.

So then you're getting like a fry, you know, deep fried chicken, but no, not the calories and the fat. So that's something that's and it's good and it's fast.

Son was on Worst Cooks in America. Okay, so she her whole thing was she spoke to the producers and she was launching some like toaster oven line, right, and yeah, you could. You could do a lot of stuff on a toaster, right. I don't think you can cook twenty pounds of lamb chops, no, yeah, but she could.

But you could take a you could take two lamb chops with some olive oil, rosemary, garlic and lemon, and yeah, yeah, I think I think it's something you should think about. But she never made the toaster oven because like most housewives, they need a storyline and it's usually fake yeah, so Sonia, you know, the toaster oven never came to fruition. Someone might have talked to her about it. She had an idea she'd put it on the show, but it never.

It never. It never happens. No, Yeah, because I don't know if she was like the best like spokesperson for the technology. Yeah, yeah, worst cloks in America as like an infomercial for like my greatest toaster oven. Ever, I don't think that was a very slick demo.

Well she was, Yeah, Well, the thing about Sonia, she's very sweet and she gets away with these like sort of ethel antics. And in this scene it seems like she's she's drinking and she's on the loop and so this is that's like a producer's dream that scene because it's just it's dramatic, but they don't kill the party with the drama, meaning it's still funny with the clip and the safari and you know, my point, my place in the show is like just like the sort of

So that's Ramona.

And now Ramona sits down with Luanne and Sonya, and Luanne has just gotten married to this guy Tom that she is now divorced from because he cheated on her, and Sonya has slept with Tom, she used to date him, so and Ramona has dated him also but hasn't slept with him. So that's why Luanne and Sonia get into that argument because Sonia fires a shot basically saying referencing that she's slep with Tom, and that's why Lang gets

This is between my wife and my daughter. This is kind of like the dialogue that I listened to every day of the house your daughter. Not the details, not the details, right, But I just like this, that person did this, and this person did that, and like they did this, and I'm like, I'm like, real interesting. I don't know, it's like you know, I don't know to be honest, but like, what's my take on that? Like, because I remember, are you sort of sort of flashed

We're getting there, we're talking about it now, that's we're getting there. We're at the we're at the lunch.

Where we're still at the lunch.

Ramona doesn't know she's getting invited because it's my trip. Aka, it's my trip because there's no it says Bethany's Lodge and Vermont Trust and believe I didn't pay for that snowboard.

You do too, I know that, Yes, I know that from Sundance. I know I've seen you.

Yeah, I don't pay for the trip, like we don't pay for the trips. So when it says Bethany's trip, it's not my trip, and that's a whole other scam. Like it always makes it like someone rented a yacht. It's it's productions tripe. Yeah right, but it's so it's my but it's my trip, your trip, and I get to control who's coming. So I have control over this trip and also the Mexico trip I'm inviting them on. So that's why everyone's gonna hate me soon because now I'm controlling two trips.

Yeah.

Yeah, So anyway, so that's that lie I'm saying the take on. Yeah, so if someone slept with your spouse and you've just gotten married, there's got to be a moratorium on discussing that.

Yeah, I mean that just is that dinner conversation is especially like you know, I don't know, it seems like, you know, you they kind of come to the opportunity with the cameras lit, with like kerosing in their pocket, just ready to throw it whenever they've got a good camera angle on them, right, And so that to me is like when I'm watching this thing and I'm like, okay, she's dropping that right now, and then if and so like in the real life situation, would you ever bring

I'm glad you asked, because that brings up a conversation going on overall in society about reality television. And it used to be real. It used to be more real, like it used to be Fly on the Wall, and now it's.

Heavily Real World season one, yeah right.

And even Housewives season one, And now it's happening for years, and it's evolved because a couple things are happening. Someone, I'm bringing it back to you. Someone's taste buds are shot. They've tasted every hot pepper, so now you really have to burn them for them to feel it. Because for years, it used to be that a girl said to me at a restaurant that she was up here and I was down here, and that was a massive scene.

It like shook everyone.

That would be nothing today because today people slip at each other's husbands, toss their prosthetic legs on dance floors, flip tables like the bar keeps getting raised, and reality what or lowered right, and reality TV means use your you know how you tell your kid, like use your use your inside voice, like it's telling adults, use your whole inside voice. It's like, don't hold anything back and

On friends, would have no job. You know, like some things I think about are really funny but really inappropriate, and some things I think to myself like okay, I would just never like I'm sort of quietly shocked, but I would never bring it up. Or some things you notice or you may have some inside intel on someone's private life that is none of your business, right and not your story and not your headline.

So that's what reality TV is. Mention it all every single thing. You were saying it to your wife, you're saying it to your daughter, you're saying it in front of people at your country club. Because if I go to pick up her drop off and there's a mom next to me, and she's wearing an unattractive shirt. You can trust and believe I'm not going to say that. On the Houseise you'd be like, what the hell you think you're wearing that shirt?

If it feels like you're kind of like, you know, busting beans with somebody you know at a further friend, you know what I mean. I think sometimes you can kind of get away with that kind of conversation. So I don't know, like, listen, it's very entertaining, it's super entertaining.

That way, right the psyche?

Yeah, And like the only close thing to Housewives that guys do in public would be like barstool sports. Yeah, Like that's that's the closest example of just like unfiltered, un edited for profit content.

You know that could could be kind of funny. Sometimes they'll mean, you know, yeah for sure.

Yeah exactly, So a couple of inside little easter eggs. Like this guy at that Italian restaurant says to Carol that she looks Malania Trump. She's like hates and despises Trump. She's fully for Hillary Tinsley, who is like a little Vallery in a box, which Dorinda said. I don't want to give away too much, but she has pretty much walked away from reality television. She's found happiness in her personal life. So I want to give a.

Shout out to her and.

Luanne and Tom, the man who had just gotten married have been long divorced. Now that's what's so crazy about how the tide turns on the show. Okay, so now we are getting to Vermont, and I'll also say something to you. What I noticed on this episode is like everybody looks normal, Like people don't look like aliens over glammed over chanel. Like if you see the Real Housewives

Yeah, and so it looks like because my wife goes on girlfriend trips like that all the time. She's going to Portland next weekend. Yeah, a couple of girls just to go for the weekend. She does that kind of stuff all the time. And then it's like this really good kind of friend pile up where they've got reservations and a couple of fun restaurants and they're just going to go and kind of connect with each other. And

She's just turned to, Oh, I'm fifty two. When's your birthday?

March third?

Okay, I'm November four, I'm fifty two. Also, So and you have two kids.

I have we have three, my old oh, and we have two teenagers. We have a sixteen year old son and a fifteen year old daughter. And so my wife is just like in their life as you know, the person who runs the house, right, and she does an amazing job of that kind of stuff. And then this thing will kind of pop up where it's like, well, our friends are you know, my girl, my other two friends are going to London for the weekend, and I

And she's an unpaid intern like me, I'm an unpaid intern. She's doing everything for the kids and like you need that. I think that's great. And also she's living her own life. You are living your life like you can't live her life for her, and vice versa. So I think it's great. And these girls trips, it's funny. On the house, I didn't really love them because they're obviously work. But some

You guys know each other off camera, you.

Don't really know each other when you enter the show. Some of the women pretend they've been friends for fifteen years because they've known each other in a circle in the way that you might know another chef for fifteen years, but you don't really know them and you're not like best friends at them. When you're working, everything you're talking about is effectively the show. It doesn't seem like it,

And did you gravitate towards anybody in particular? Like what cast member are you still friends with?

So I was very close with Carol, the one who was wearing the safari outfit, and I wanted to compliment her in this episode because she was humorous and I remember really really liking her. And I don't think it's I don't think it's possible to sustain really good relationships within this environment. And we did meet and become friends during this experience, but we also broke up during this experience, and I've had my friends since high school. Like, it's

She was on our podcast, by the way. I mean she she loves a grandkid, she loves cooking.

She's like, you know, Durnda's great.

Yeah, I mean she's very amusing, and she's a great housewife. Tinsley the Valerie in a box is somebody who was a good not great housewife. But butt Head's a little on the show, which bums me out because I really like her off the show.

I really really enjoy her. I like her.

Luanne reminded me on this episode that she really always is in a good mood when shooting, Like she comes in and she's pretty positive. She gets aggravated, but she's a good housewife. Like this is a good this is a good group. We may not we're not, we may not be friends, but I'm going to give them the respect that they deserve when watching truthfully, I can't just like, I gotta be honest yeah, So let me ask you a question.

The room rule.

You go on a trip, your wife goes on a trip with a bunch of people. You go with a bunch of guys, what's the rule?

Like this, you get the worst room?

But then why would you ever get their last? You get their first.

You'd want to get the you'd want to get the best room.

Like what if?

Yeah, but what if the show got booked cars and then that other car came later? Like shouldn't that be discussed ahead of time? Like who cares? Like what do you think? I never cared because we're never going to be in the room. I never cared.

I wouldn't care. I certainly wouldn't complain. I certainly wouldn't make a big deal about it. But that's the rule, Like if you because we go to you know, French friends trips all the time, and whoever gets to the house in Mexico first gets their first choice room, and ever shows up last, you get what you get?

But is that at a restaurant too?

Like, so you pick a restaurant and you get there, lest the people you're going with, they're going to sit in the seats facing out, and you're going to sit facing in because you got their last. But it's your restaurant, Like, what what's that?

Well, if it were my restaurant, No, literally.

Your restaurant, your front Bobby Flay, you're boning a Bobby Flay's restaurant.

I wouldn't you know? When I go out to dinner, I always give my guests like preferred seating. Okay, I walk up to a table of the group, I'm like, I sort of give them the best opportunity to have the best seat, because to me, I just think it's a kind thing to do. But if you get there last, and you know the clock is ticking, and I've got my bags and I want to drop it down that I don't know where you are or what time your car is showing up, and your schedule is not my schedule,

Take the room of the view.

What is do you think the best seat is the one that's looking out, that's like the furthest you walk into a restaurant, it's the seat that's looking at the hole room that to you is the or the one with the view.

I guess right, it really depends on the restaurant, right, So if there is a view, that's the best seat, and if there's no view, then the seat that faces the room is the best view. Right.

But then if you're going to get recognized, it's not the best because I always want to sit facing the wall, sadly, because I don't.

It just depends. And sometimes I'm with you. Sometimes when I go out in public, I just don't really want to be bothered, so I'll just, you know, quietly sort of put my back to the room so nobody walks up to me. But I'm sure that's the same thing with you, right.

Yeah exactly, I said, yeah, exactly, because.

You just want to be present. I don't want to be you know, on or have to have a common as much as I love it. I mean, listen, twenty seven years on television, just like you, like, people walk up and they they they have a relationship with us, with you, of course that we don't know anything about,

Oh my god, no, of course, and that person. And I've had people come up to me in the bathroom at airports and then be a little jarring and then feel guilty and think about it for the next two hours looking for the person in the airport, like wanting to like take back that moment that I was a little bit like, can I just wait one second till

I will.

It's just worth being so present and so positive, even in a restroom, because I don't like that feeling.

I hate the feeling of disappointing someone. It's a worse feeling.

Last week, this dude, I was in this public space and I could see out of my peripheral vision. There was a guy because like sometimes when you can tell you clocked him, you can see him, right, I see this guy, but I can't really tell tell, you know, and unless he like taps me on the shoulder, I'm not going to walk up to him going hey, did

You know you gotta because it's a big moment for them, exactly.

Okay.

So Ramona, the one who I told you every trip to her is like her honeymoon. She can have the best time, it doesn't matter. And Ramona thinks there are special rules for her. She makes up her own rules that she no the one the blonde who says, well, sonya and I like to share a room, so that means we should get the bathtub and get the back every trip, the same thing that we should.

She should just say, I'm the oldest.

She's in her she's in her sixties, and she should just always say I'm the oldest, so I.

Should get the preference. She should. I don't know why she didn't go with that years ago.

She's always been the oldest, and she should have just gone with that, because it'd be hard to argue with that. Who it's not a well would if you're there with your elders, your grandparents are somebody you're gonna parents.

Yeah, but not like a friend who happens to be ten years older than me.

No, she's not well yeah, she's twelve, thirteen years old. Yeah, I mean, I'm just no, I'm saying it would work. I'm not saying it's true, but she doesn't care.

If it's true.

If she said it, we'd go for it. I think I would go for it. She'd be like, I'm older than you and I you know, and I'd be like, you know what, Ramona, You're right. That's why Tinseley always got stuck in the shitty room. She's the baby of the group. So it's like, so it's okay, you're young, go in the twin bed. Yeah, I think, like I think we should have. She should have gone at that,

Why, and Carol's like, I don't know, huh.

Do you remember Carol was the one who was very passionate about, like Drenda getting her room and scrambling for the room.

Yeah, I saw that, and it was it was a big sort of mash up, all right, I did it seem like there's a lot of cameras going on. There was a lot of chit chat, a lot of chatter going on. There was there was I think four or five different like two person conversations kind of happening at the same time. So it was a little, like I said, from a dude's perspective, it's a little hard to keep up with, you know, sort of watching all this exactly.

That's Countess, Countess Luenne de les sep. She just got married, but like not yesterday, and I don't we don't know the correlation. I don't understand the correlation to Ramona getting the best room because she's sharing with something. I understand that more she's sharing. So she's saying two of us together could get the best room. But like, we didn't

Yeah, like I just got married. It would be nice if you guys gave me the good room. And I can't believe I didn't get the good room. And don't you know I just got married and I just got.

Married and you agree with that or it's bizarre logic.

Oh, it's a cheap card to play, Like I don't, I don't understand, Like you get okay, that's that's the adult rule of sharing the house for the weekend. If you get there last, you get what you get.

Okay. That's the telephones, that's the rule.

That is the rule. Like we're all going in together, you know, and like especially if somebody's paying for it, like if you're not paying for it, right, you know what I mean? Like if it were like we're all going to split this house four couples, and I would probably want to know the room accommodations set up if

Well, first of all, you offer a service. It's like if you're a massage therapist and you're coming on the tub, you should get the bigg roomcause you're gonna.

Be the best person a vacation with.

Yeah, you're cooking, so you should have the big Yeah you're yes, forget I mean if you're a d J, yeah you probably DJ. Also you offer ser idea I'm the party fucking yeah, no, you deserve two. Yeah, you are an exception. You should never be in the bad room.

Get the broom.

Yeah you should, But I don't know if ever, But first of all, what if it's your fake trip. It's my fake trip, so I should get the best room. I didn't pay for the goddamn trip.

Did you get there first?

Yes, it's my fake trip. I got there with other people, my fake trip. Three of us came together boom.

But who walked the door first?

I mean that's no, because then Ramona would be ripping limbs off. I once had a pinata at a party that had fine jewelry in it, and Ramona like lost the shoe trying to get that jewelry out of there. I mean, she will cut a bitch, She will cut a bit. I mean, you can't imagine they'd be like.

They'd be like, that's a difference between Real Housewives and New York City and Real Housewives of Salt Lake City.

Yes, exactly. That's hilarious. Okay.

So the best too, is that I wish that we had the word gas lighting, that we used it when we were shooting The Housewives. It just wasn't back then a word that was used like every day like now, because Ramona gives a whole synopsis, she's saying that like

So that's real if I sing no, is that okay? Yeah?

Yeah? Do you not understand?

Like this is where I kind of get lood?

Okay, Okay, You're put in a house with chefs that you don't know, and all of you are just living there and cooking different recipes and you have to tell Bobby Flay and Michael Simon and all these people what you really think it's too much salt. It's like shit, I can't believe you overcooked it. How have you been

That's a nightmare. Thank you.

I'm trying to explain your body, your human being. You have blood running through your vans, so you're standing next to someone, you're exhausted, you've been drinking alcohol, you're dehydrated, you're working. So when they say your croquettes taste like shit, you might punch somebody. You're not a person who punches, but you might punch somebody. That's what I'm saying.

Now, do you understand, Yeah, well, I mean push, come to shove if you start insulting my croquets. You know, three and a half classes deep, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, those croquettes buck those cats. I mean sometimes she gets crazy.

Yes, so that's that's thank you. Yes, I needed to let you know.

So the ballerina in a box.

She's a pretty born with the with the yes braids, the cool braids on top of her hair.

Okay, yes, yes, she's like perfect, she always has. She was a socialite. She still wear tap it in go to like the met Gala, And she had a fall from Grace and she dated some of the wrong people and she ended up on page six and she was.

Right.

She had dated someone and married them Topper Mortimer. She's from Virginia, Like, she kind of did everything right to tee her up to be in w magazine. So she did everything right to get herself to the met Gala and had a lipstick line and a handbag line and then it all crashed and burned because she made some bad decisions.

And so this show was her comeback.

But she's still tinsely, she's still beautiful, she has the long last she looks perfect everyday she's Southern. She's dressed to it the nines every day. So now she comes back and this is all produced because the show wants to get her into the show. But she doesn't live in New York. So she's living at Sonya Morgan, the Toaster Oven girl, who has a townhouse, which is like a character in the show her townhouse because she it's mortgage to the hill, so she's never kind of getting

Right, Okay, I do remember that situation. So she was kind of upset that she was living with this other person, and then there was like rules of the house if I remember that correctly.

Right, right, So Sonia is trying to control Tinsley because she's saying Tinsley came back to New York and they weren't real friends. They've known each other for years, but it's another one of these friendships that gets more concentrated because of the show. So now she's living for the show with Sonya, and Sonya's effectively imposing rules on her even though she's a forty two year old adult, and

Rules were, that was Azinger.

By the way, what I said, yeah, thank you.

That's the only reason I'm there is for the singer, So I don't really probably add any other value. So so Sonya's input, do you agree Sonya's it's Sonya's how Sonya's rules, It doesn't matter what they are. Is that fair or that's not a friend or what do you think?

Well, I listen, I never think about the situations like it couldn't happen to me, right, because you got you never know you know what I mean?

Like that right? No, right, you're right.

Yeah, It's like you have a bad couple of years and you know you end up like staying at somebody's house and stuff like that, and there's like bad croquettes, bad croquetes, let's sleek at bad croquetes get let's say, shit gets crazy and your back BET's take over the world.

And then you end up No, you get a reputation. You have bad croquettes the whole restaurant. It's bad for you, bad for your career. Bad croquetes are bad for TV chefs exactly.

And then take two. You're staying at somebody's house, right, and so you sleep on the couch, right.

Well, so in you's house, and you're sleeping with stuffed animals, which.

Is what was happening. Your croquets are so bad you end up sleeping on the couch is somebody's house, right. Yeah, that's a downward spiral, yep, that you could have corrected if if somebody had given you some real advice and say your croquets are salty toast or an airca I tried it, or an area to try it. Yeah, yeah, maybe you should have used an air fryer. They could a little crisp beer.

Yep, you're growing.

Could have happened, could have You're.

Growing as a chef as we speak.

I feel like that, I feel like them. And then you end up in that situation, and then you know, then you're sort of like stuck in this thing, trying to like claw your way out of it. And then so if somebody says, what were the rules, by the way, was it like whether harsh rules or she was complained about the rules or what, like, I think Midnight, don't fucking yeah.

I think we're talking about the fact that she was starting to date, and I know she wasn't bringing guys there. But Sonya was imposing her opinion on the way that Tinsley was dating. And Sonya was saying that Tinsley had expressed that she didn't want to get a bad reputation, and Sonya Morgan was like back in the fifties, saying that she, you know, she was being like a fifties mom, which is interesting because that's what Tinsley's mom is like.

Sonya thinks.

So we're all chiming in and being like forty two year old women move out like this is her rules. So I'm saying, her house, her rules, no matter what they are, I think.

So. I think when you're in that situation like that, you're just inviting somebody to have an opinion about your life. You're inviting that it, You're accepting that as part of the responsibility of yourself right there at that moment in your life. Like if I moved in with my mother in law, I was just then expector to give me a blow by blow daily recap of how she would

And so, well, what if you don't eat breakfast? She wants to eat breakfast.

You woke up and you're you know, she's going to think that you or if you go swimming right after you eat croquettes, she's going to say, you make a stomache.

If you don't wait a half an hour, you're going to get cramps.

Right, So you wouldn't know that if you were in the house.

Yeah, she gets crazy. So I think, you know, hopefully I don't know where she is in the world right now. I hope she I hope she moved out. Do we know where she is right now? What's her up right now?

She? I mean, I don't want to hear it.

By the way, I don't even know who was president. I was trying to like watch this stuff like this.

I think Luanne was president. I'm not sure that Glenn still separate president. Well, no, I think it was around that. No, it was for the election, for the election for Trump.

Okay, it was.

Right around before.

That's why the Milania reference to Carol looking like Milania. It wasn't as bad a reference now to her because Trump hadn't been elected yet. But we did shoot, Yes, we did shoot the election night.

Yes.

So to answer your question, Tinsley.

Is very, very happy and her life is exactly where she has wanted it to be. So she doesn't live in the town how she doesn't live in New York, and she is very Yes, I'm so ry. She's very happy. Sonya still lives in the town house. I'm related, and her reputation is intact good.

Yes.

Yes.

Do you think a lot of women have a hard time surviving Real Housewives?

Well, there's something going on. It's the biggest conversation happening right now. In one of the biggest conversations in entertainment.

So there's a dance a line.

So I was invited to be the Bachelor one year stop and I turned it down. Wow, turned on a bunch of stuff. I turned down Let's Apprentice.

Same, I turned down the Celebrity Apprentice because I did the Regular Apprentice.

Yep.

Same. Turned out turned down those two things.

Because like who's like, who's your the Bachelor.

Fame is a dangerous game, and you know, there's a line with it. And for you, if you did the apprint, you're very successful and you're on TV. If if you did the Apprentice and you got fired in the first couple of weeks, it could be worse for you.

It wouldn't matter.

Well you don't know, well.

I mean it might matter if it will, because you've always got this baseline thing. I just think some people are kind of in this reality thing and that's their full time job. It's just kind of being in the reality world right where, you know, like like we said earlier in our conversations, like the cake has to be good. It's not about the frost, and it's about the cake.

That's different because that's more dramatic to the point of what I'm talking about at least it's grounded in a competition where it stays contained. But it's funny that you're saying this because, first of all, it sounds like you're not willing to gamble something you're not willing to lose, so to go on the Apprentice, the upside does not outweigh how bad the downside could be, like going into a casino, Like, how what's my upside and what's my downside?

You have too much to lose show. I think like Gary Busey was on that same season, I can't remember who, like the other cast member was like, there's no way I'm doing.

That right because I don't think you.

I don't.

I think that if you look like a clown, that's a big downside, And what's the upside? You win the prize, you know. But the difference is your show. It's not scripted, but it's got guardrails. You're talking about food, you're not talking about politics, you're not talking about each other, you're not gossiping, so it's got some guardrails. But you could

And you get a little sip of success and you think that's what life is going to be like for the rest of your life, and then it goes away, and then you left and then what he left with. And so sometimes I see these folks and like, you know, you know sometimes when when people were like the fourth runner up on season twelve of Top Chef or whatever it is, right, and then they they're like, where's my agent, where's my book deal? You know, where's my television series,

But what if you're me and you have nothing going on and you have no money, and you have no family and no safety net, and you're in your late thirties and it's not that cute. You were about to go work actually for Bobby Flay. I went to masa Grill and was like, I need you to give me like some sort of an internship or however you start in a restaurant. But I ended up going on. I did the Apprentice, was the runner up, nothing to lose.

Yeah, I called everybody. I called.

I.

They all liked me, but Bob Tushman wouldn't let me through. So I wanted your job. And then the housewives comes and I said I had nothing to lose, not unlike you.

I did not.

I had only it didn't matter. I was living in a studio Iqia apartment, So that's why I did it. But I am the exception, not the rule.

Some people come out of it. Some people there's always a success, and I'm worry about everybody. I'm swaying that way. Yeah, I think the people who are successful are going to be successful one way or the other. Likewise, people who are you know, the cream always just rises to the top, like leaders just leave right. People who are going to be successful are going to find that root one way or the other to be successful. And sometimes there's a little a little fake it till you make it, till

It one hundred percent. And a lot of people are saying because of this reality reckoning. Without Bravo, I would be nowhere. I'm like that was seventeen years with I'd be nowhere. I would be sitting in the same place. Am I a key a studio apartment? With this brain inside my head? It's just like that's what housewives at home on keyboard say. So I'm like, yeah, it's okay, we can have better treatment for people. Sixteen years later. So it's like I always bring up Kim Kardashian sixteen

I'm still though, I mean, she's just super successful. This is what I'm saying, Like so that I don't know if that was planted, right, I mean, do you think that was planted?

Yes, it doesn't matter. What were you doing sixteen years ago?

Sixteen years ago I was. I was, you know, on season you know, like year twenty of Food Network. You know, I've been doing this for twenty seven years. I just finished my seventeenth cookbook. You know, I'm a one trick pony. I've been I literally have been in kitchens working my entire life since I was thirteen years old. I started washing dishes and restaurants and this is my one jam. I mean, so like sixteen years ago, I was, I was, I mean, I was successful sixteen years ago, but like

And well, you brought something up because you just brought something up, So to bring up the Kardashians, like, forget that there are many people. You're one person. I'm one person. But when you've had a layered career and done so many different things, you can get dirty and make different mistakes. When you have a one hit wonder career where you just get fame really quickly and then something goes wrong, those are the people that really dissolve because they don't

Yeah, but if you look at your winning loss column, you still got a championship.

Season, right, That's what I'm saying.

You're so championship season right. Like the Hall of Fame, Hall of Fameme, Hall of Fame, yeah, big time.

So you're in the Hall of Fame of cooking, right? Is that of fact? I mean, is not a fact. You might not be.

You might not be Michael Jordan, I might not be you know whoever, But like you're in the Hall of Fame.

You're in that on those walls.

I'm on the wall of the Smithsonian Institute of American History in Washington, d C.

Really boom.

Why I'm not, I don't know if it's forever, but there was a there's a there was a The Julia Child's exhibit at the Smithsonian in Washington, d C. Has like a sidewall of of her predecessors, of people that came after her.

And I'm on the wall, like, how did they define who came out?

Everybody's coming after?

Well, I mean it's obviously not everybody, because there's you know, there's a handful. I think, God, I saw it maybe.

Meaning very successful did you go to the same school as her?

Or just meaning successful.

Chefs, successful chefs on television. That's amazing that kind of came after that.

That's unbelievable.

That's did you go and like you have it? You saw I took the picture. That's amazing. Wow, well the sea do you see that? The show is not just like trashing house was. It's kind of talking about life via that vehicle. That makes any sense. We could talk about croquetes for two hours too.

We could talk about croquettes and so I I think, you know, having a daughter who I love with all my heart and having a wife who I love with all my heart. I think there's because my daughter deals with this and it's like the mean girl syndrome, right, and sometimes it's really heavy and so and to not getting kind of details. But like all, there always seems

Well, how old is she? I'll tell you because I think I actually think I'm good at that. Okay, so my daughter's thirteen, so I actually think, knock what, I've been very good at this. So my opinion on this, you're talking about something your daughter has to deal with. You're talking about a zero sum game and someone in that age, in a teenager's life of a girl, someone

You've got to be on me. Be nice.

My daughter's known is always smiling and being nice to everybody. She does not get hot and be and when she gets close to getting hot and I see her being be fed with someone and it's every day, I'm like, listen, if you go so hot, there's only one way for this to go so take it town on a little, mix it up, have other friends. It's the burner method, like have a lot of things on the burner, like a lot of different friends and relationships, and don't go too hot or too cold with anybody.

Yeah yeah, yeah. So she's got school friends and then those relationships kind of come and go sometimes like sometimes like they'll be you know, all smiles, and then sometimes they'll there'll be a situation where girls said something about somebody, something to somebody and and you know, feelings, people get their feelings hurt, and you know, uh, it ended up like I'll give an example because it's weird because it starts so early, and as a parent, I mean, I'll get to start.

Very early, and it feels like the stuff we do.

Yeah, the mean girl stuff started in the third grade and then like Dorothy would come home, my daughter, she'd come home and she's like crying her eyes out and she was like, you know, uh, you know, this girl said something really mean about me and and you know, and she really hurt my feelings. And then she got another group of girls together and then they all started talking about me, and then you know, they started isolating

Aren't because it's fomo, Because it's all fomo. You know where someone is in there together and then you're missing out and why are they not inviting me?

You're talking about that?

Yeah, it is so toxic because you see where other kids are exactly from like Dorothy, that is a tracking device on your phone, Like it's kind of cool to see where your friends are. But if you see them together with other people and you didn't get invited, and then you're going to start looking up on TikTok and you know, and.

Then you said dancing together, the TikTok dances. You see them doing a dance together and why they together? And she said she couldn't have plans.

You got it.

But it all goes back to the slow and low. You have to kind of ath like you don't care. You have to have your own life. You have to have friends outside of school. And it's funny because I know someone with a child actually sixteen, and in these cases they kind of treat school like it's work, like they go there to get their work done. They stay on their own. They don't seem desperate. Like they're being left out and needy because kids pray on that.

Kids again, you got to have thicker skins. Kids can have other friends and it's okay.

And you have to act like you don't. The least interested party always wins you. You got to be that person that's treating like your own to work and you have other friends after. And you've got to not take the bait. It's very much like causeway. You cannot take the bait, and you just and you just can't take the bait. You cannot take the bait. You can't be too upset, you can't be too excited and thirsty. You got to stay medium. You got to stay slow and

I think that's really good advice because I think a lot of times kids do take the bait, and I think it ends up with this, you know, this sort of backwards and then they'll counter react all of it, and then they'll have like, you know, I'm going to have a sleepover this weekend and I'm going to invite all those people and I'm not going to invite her.

And then they're wrong. That's why medium, don't go hot, don't go cold. You got to you got to really explain to your kid that because you know from the kitchen, like keep it on medium, and it's not going to be that exciting, but it's not going to be the load.

The loads are really bad at that age.

That's why I want to keep everything, you know, And I help my daughter move the plates around with the different friends, like, okay, just make sure you're keeping you're making plans with a couple of people.

Don't get you hot on that one. It really makes a.

Difference, makes a huge difference. So she has she's in a competitive dance group and she's been dancing. That's another too, right, Well, and that's a whole other thing. Yeah, but I think having like two and specifically like plot this out with your child to have different groups of friends that she

Well that yes, and also you know, as adults, you get a nice car. You're going on a trip something other people want to hear about as a kid. It's not kids don't want to hear that you have a famous dad. You went to LA, you met a celebrity. Like, keep all that shit tight too, Like my daughter has me is a mom and she can meet anybody. We're going to a private concert with Adam Sandler next week.

She doesn't even keep that shit tight too.

Yeah, So don't be braggy at all because it'll backfire too.

Oh, backfire. So like Dorothy went to go see Taylor Swift three times this past summer, right, you know what I mean? And those are like very special tickets and friends and friends of friends on right right right, like twice in Santa Clara went in LA and whatever. But anyway, so I remember back in the third grade when when she would come home and she was like upset that like this girl had said something. And then she got you know, the other group of friends together and they

Oh fair?

And she definitely is culpable a little bit something. She can't be perfect, right, this.

Is what I'm saying. So all of a sudden, it's like it's like, you know, okay, you know it ended up with some girl calling another girl fat, right, which is horrifying. And then but if you go back like ten steps, there's this thing where I feel like, if somebody has the sunshine and a group conversation that another girl feels like they have to steal the sunshine, yecause you can't let that girl have the sunshine. So this

But you're saying what I just said fifty five miles an hour, keep it in the middle, just just don't look, you don't have to engage, just like that's so nice, amazing be positive about them. Don't tell anyone, don't show anyone in your cards.

But nobody teaches these kids how to listen and how to be friends, right, nobody. You do well because I had to identify the situation first and foremost. I'm like, I'm like Dorothy. Like. So, if somebody says to you, hey, we're going skiing in Tahoe this weekend, your next response is, all, that sounds amazing.

It's wonderful.

That's wonderful. When you guys leaving, all that's great. Do you ski or do you snowboard? Oh? You snowboard. I've still bored a couple of times. I don't that great at it, but but that sounds I'm really happy for you. That sounds amazing. And give them the sunshine, give them the full sunshine. I never said, because they'll give it back to you when it's your turn. But if you steal it, they're just gonna steal it back. I like that, and then it's the same.

But the thing is, then I made a glass and we don't want we know how. I know how painful it was. I know what sixth grade was, I know what being ganged up was. I lived through it. It's part of who I am. It's why I'm successful, It's why you who you are. Like they're gonna have to get dirty and get dinged up. It's a brand new car and it's gonna have to get some scratches.

I totally understand that. And and and it's the reason I pulled my kids out of private school and put them in public school for high school because you know, going to a school with like thirty six kids in your whole grade, thirty six your whole grade, it's not Yeah, it's not real life. Like you're going to bump into different people that are gonna have like different opinions, and

You know what I mean, right, Not everything needs to be said.

I don't need to jump into this conversation and tell you exactly what I think about or what's reminding me of what you're saying that I have a similar experience. Just let somebody have the floor. Let them have the floor.

Well, that's how acting.

If you're in your own head, think about your next line, you should just be in their thing.

And you don't have to pull out your every hand. You're right, you don't, ye.

So, so if you give someone and so that was my life lesson because I with her and I think it's it's it's a valuable life lesson for anybody who wants to be successful is you have to be a really really good listener and you have to give other people the floor because they will have so much respect for you because you are reading as their friend because you're listening, which is such a valuable uh skill to own such of that from a leadership standpoint, learn to

You'll have your moment. That's such a true that's a great You'll have your moment. That's a great note. It's a great note. And it's been so's it's it's funny to think about this environment and this show, and I'm thinking about you and like other chefs, and where the line is. There was the last thing I'll say. There was a show Watch What Happens Live, and there was a woman sitting down, this woman Heather, and I guess she sold her house for like one hundred and something

Who?

Who's house on your show would sell for the least money. So this person is tasked on a show that she's there to promote whatever she's doing. So you're promoting your cookbook on the show whatever, and your tasked with asking a question effectively, who's the poorest housewife in the group? And the woman who she said that? She said, and the host Andy said who he thought it would be the poorest housewife. And then that housewife who wasn't even on the show, sent in a video saying there are

So I always think that the best gift you can give your children is to be their inner voice. You want to be their inner voice when they're having these existential conversations about do I take a left turn or take a right turn? You want to be the voice that pops up in their head, that gives them, gives them good advice. And this is my thing exactly. So there is a pathway for women to have very deep, meaningful friendships. And my wife has them all the time.

That's what the show is.

And I was good at it.

That's sad.

Yeah, I've evolved. I'm trying to better myself. So yes, I think I'm a good example for my daughter like you are for yours. And I think that's that's why I do enjoy doing the show and talking to people like you who haven't haven't watched, because I feel like watching these situations can be paid forward into good lessons for our kids.

So you were amazing.

It's funny because you came on and we were like not even talking about the show, and we ended up really crystallizing the show. So I really I love talking to you, and I really appreciate you doing this with me.

I so appreciate you having me. I'm a big fan, been a big fan.

Thank you.

And I think you are such a wonderful role model on how to be independently successful and not take no for an answer and drive your own ship and when and I think you from a businesswoman's point of view, are one of the most interesting stories in the last like twenty thirty years.

Well, I really appreciate it.

Who's done what you've done? I mean, like and you know, being like blue collar. I grew up blue collar, I had nothing like nobody ever gave me a thing. I paid everything I've ever had, I've either earned or paid for it myself. And so my success is so valuable to me and so frow yes, and I never forget it. And today my goal is to work harder at fifty two years of age, as successful as I am. I'm working harder today than I worked yesterday, right, because I'm

No, I'm not done. It's just different. You're doing things differently, working smarter. It's harder, but it's more in my mind, and it's more in strategy, and it's more in chess than it is in physical labor. Like my mind it always has been always going, but it's really it's sort

Do you love your fifties. I love my fifties.

I love my fifties.

I mean part of it is like thinking about health things that are different, and it's more boring in certain ways, Like some parts of it's are boring because like used to go out and dance and get wasted. Like it's not the same in that way, but it does. It's deeper.

It's what I was just saying.

I try to go to and I'm with Paul, my fiance, I go to bed at like ten. When I'm by myself, I go at like eleven thirty. Yeah, I'm like, he's a better influence.

Like I'm dead.

I just can't write. That's what I'm saying.

So you know what's exciting now is like a good night's sleep is the most exciting thing in the world. Like your coffee, like your ice coffee hitting perfectly, Like every.

Day it's a new adventure.

Like some days you just do the poor differently and some days it's it's just not so when it hits like, these are the big wins. So you know, good night's sleep and and my sleep track are telling me that I got seven and a half.

I'll talk about that all day. That's like a big win.

That's great.

Well, let's get together at some point. But it's so good talking to you, all right.

You bring some steak.

Okay, bring the toaster and the air fry and some croquettes.

Maybe I'll bring some air fry.

We need to air fry something Anon between now and then do some R and D. I mean, what the fuck, just to get a bagel, get some get some dumplings, and air for I'm gonna get you the best ship to air fry. Just try it right, You're not that busy.