When I do live gigs around the country, I'll be honest with you. I sel t shirts and swag to the folks who are there, and then people always say, can we get this wag without sitting through a whole evening of you. Well, it's happened. It's finally here. You can buy Craig Ferguson merch on the Craig Ferguson Merch website and you can buy it for yourself or someone you hate or someone you love. For more information and link to the web store, please go to the Craig
Fergusonshow dot com. That's all lowercase, the Craig Ferguson show dot com. My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is joy. I talk to interest in people about what brings them happiness.
My guest today.
On the podcast is someone who is, let's be honest, Canadian. But he's a friend of mine and I've been aware of him for a long time.
He's about the same age as me.
He was on The Kids in the Hall when I was in We Have, He was in news radio when I was in The Drew Carey Show, and then we worked together.
On hat in Cleveland.
It's my favorite kid in the hall apart from the other ones. No, he's my favorite. They fully everyone.
I'm going So you're saying Czech is now called Chechia. Yeah, Turkey is no code Turkey Canada Canada ayah, Canada aya canaday ayah. Because you are, of course famously Canadian. I am. I'm I am an official icon. Yeah they do they have a fully day or anything like that. No, no, they don't.
You're much beloved in the Land of the North, I believe. Yeah, but you'd think more No. No, in Canada is like Scotland. Yeah, it's like, oh are you you're doing well?
Well, good for you. Yeah, I'm actually I would say probably more blarge in America.
That's definitely the case with me and Scotland. Yeah, they kind of don't like me.
When you come back and say, oh, yeah, Jim Carrey told me a thing. He's Canadian y Yeah, right, yes, we know who every Canadian is, going back to the beginning of time, the first Canadian. If there was a Canadian, is there a hymn at the Earth Canadian came in? Yeah, if there was a Canadian of the Crucifixion, we'd be proud of him.
Yeah, it's like any Canadian no matter what. Well, so you know Jim Carrey's Canadian. Yes, And he said to me that when he goes home, they say to him, oh, hi, Jim, what are you not eating now? Because of his Hollywood connection, you see. Yeah, I don't know how it is now. I haven't seen Jim.
Do you know Jim Carrey? I don't know, Mom, I've only met him a couple of times. I've already met him a couple of times too over the years.
And I did a movie with him briefly, and he was in the movie a lot, and I was in it briefly.
But he's sold a cameo if you're famous. I think it was more were you famous at the time? No bit part, bit part? Yeah.
I think it was more a kind of bit part that was cut down from bit to micro micro part. But he was very pleasant, I have to say, in that Canadian way of you know friendly.
Yeah, it's all stereotypical, yeah, because those positive aggression there, it's really just something we put on for foreigners. When so when the lights and you're all Canadians together, Oh that's it's crazy vicious. How long have you lived in America twenty more than twenty eight years. I think it went way. Yeah, yeah, almost. I moved here in thirty three when I was thirty, nineteen three thirty. When I moved here, it was.
Kas was imagining as no, that's anyway, look America refusing to join the war.
That's right, Well there wasn't the war. Yeah, if there was going to be a wall, they were thinking about refusing it. Yes, was that the kids in the whole? Was that in Canada? Then? Well we ended like we finished shooting the show guess in ninety four and they finished airing in ninety five.
Yeah, but you show you showed them in Canada. We shot them all in Toronto. Yeah, but they were aired on CBS.
We were on the last two or three years were CBS, Yeah, and Comedy Central. So that's where I first noticed the Cobody Central. I think, Yeah, we were on, well, we were on HBO first and CBC in Canada, and then we were on Then Comedy Central would air the shows. I forget how many weeks after HBO aired them a censored version we did a reboot for Amazon. Oh god, you know what I knew? I watched it. It was
just the same. Oh yes, no, No. The reason why I forgot about it was because it was like, because the whole it was actually very satisfying, because it was more episodes. Because the whole, I did like it. I'm so sorry. No, well, that's what we wanted it to feel like. I mean, we always like within the Troop, we always referred to it as season six. I think that's correct because I was like, oh my god, it's the same, except you know everybody, you know, nobody sits
in sugar Mint Forever. No, because you were also young and promising, it wasn't so ironic but started. That's the thing with Kid and the title, Yeah, Kid rock. Kids in the whole didn't play Kid didn't play. You're gonna, You're gonna. They'll become a time when you think, I I wish I didn't call myself that it's too late now. Yeah. Do you think sting Ever thinks that? It's like, oh my god, Now, I don't think sting Ever. I don't think sting Ever has a negative thought about himself, you
know what. I think that's true. Yeah, Well, who's the it was the other one, the American one, Yeah, the drummer. Yeah, great drummer. Yeah, do you think, Oh sure, I think he's too busy as a drummer. I like him.
I like a drummer who's like a little more kind of like all right, Raina and st You know what really bothers me. Drummers who stand up, Oh yeah, knock that ship off like little end up at the end of a song.
Or what if they do it just to take their T shirt off? Well that's bad too.
I don't mind them standing up if it's the end of the show and they got to go home. Yeah, standing up during the show at the end of a song here, you know, Yeah, no play the drums and let someone else do it.
Mail Part never stood up or took a show. Never did that.
Now New Part was a busy drummer, but he could get away with it.
Yeah, you went to Rush when you were you know what? II. When I was a teenager, I wasn't really that into them. I knew there was a band that used to open for them all the time that I was more into, called Max Webster. Okay, and then I, as an adult, I got to be I got to know their music more as an adult, and I became friends with them all as an adult. Yeah, when I'm in back when I was making news radio. You know what I'm going
to get to news radio, isn't it. But the thing about Russia is I hated Rush when I was a kid. I hated them.
And then I saw that documentary on I think it was Netflix or something, and I was like, I'm a Dick Russier. Awesome, And I had to go back and listen to their bike catalog and I was like, this is great.
Why did I hear this? Because you were in the punk That's exactly what it was. I was in the punk and you weren't allowed to like anything that wasn't punk. I know, well I have. I've even been going through things like my my daughter has been educating me in music of my youth. Yeah, thats to me too. Yeah, Like she got me to like not even like love E l O, which at the time I didn't as a deep cup for me. Man, I'm not into yellow. Yeah,
but they're great. So you say I mean like me amazing? Yeah, I don't know.
I remember they did a version of Rollover Beejove, and I liked when I was a kid.
Mister blue Sky is amazing. Can't do that it is a great song. Can't do it to I was. I was with you until until what happened to you? School? You you used to be like the whole youth was the kids in the hole was like you guys, yeah, no, I it's those forty five minute drives to my daughter's school up in La you know. And it was always her playlist, so really, oh yeah, we listened to her playlist every morning to schools. And it was full of she was. It was full of elo and and and
she was. She was playing deep cuts from the Kinks and the Zombies and the King.
Second, I can go with a little. The Kings, well, they were proto punk. They were proto punk. Actually they were. They had a they had an attitude about them. They didn't get along. They were kind of like Ote and what was the other one?
Ray Davis and then Dave Davies and Dave Babies and.
And then there was Regis Tito and Jermaine Thing. That was a lot of Davies and I love.
Yeah, and they were like when I was a teenager before punk really kind of hit in my high school, right, all of us we were like neo hippies, but we all listened to like Early Who and Kinks.
Early Who was like a big deal. Hope I die before I get older. Yeah, I member see.
Because they're all quite the ones who are still alive yet old. Yeah.
And some of them did die before they get old. Yeah, some of them died they wanted. One of them died old, one of them young.
Yeah. Yeah, I know he looked but he looked terrible. So he made me feel better about it. Look very thoughtful of him.
Well, it's a way of you know, giving the little sugar with the medicine.
Maybe, I don't know. It's bad though. He had a thirty three. I mean that's terrible. That's alcoholism. I know. Are you still single? Yeah again? No, single again? Single again? Yeah, because I'm good at relationships. But how long? I mean he times to be married? Uh twice but well actually well sort of three times? Oh wait, divorced bad it survived. Yeah, I don't know what. So twice married, but I was with my second wife twice Okay, yeah we were. We
were married, separated for ten years. Okay, we got back together for I think I remember this. Yeah. Yah, we got back to there for five and now we're separated again. Okay, well, I'm sorry to hear that is everything cool? Oh yeah, everything's fine, all right, We're very We're very close. Still. Oh that's great. That's good. That's the advantage of being
a little older all that rage. Yes yeah what yes, yeah, and having a truly nightmarish for comparing to the first one, everything was always gonna.
You failed famously. Yeah, yeah, wow, big one. Do you I remember me talking about that one point. I was you were telling me the the conditions of your divorce agreement.
I was like, that doesn't seem possible. Yeah, it's not uncommon in Canada. They still do that. You still under that. I'm not I'm not. I know, I'm but only like from over a little over a year. Oh my god, and you were apart for twenty thirty years, you know. Yeah, geez, I don't know many.
Let's see, I've been married three times, yes, but I'm on the third one.
Yes.
First one was when I was twenty one. Yeah, divorced when I we were like twenty four.
Yeah.
I kind of feel that doesn't count that much because you know, there were no kids.
And then I got married again when I was thirty eight, divorced when I was thirty or thirty six hours, something like thirty six, divorced when I was like forty one, Yeah, and then not being married to Megan for one hundred and fifty years.
At this point, it's a lot since two thousand and eight, so that seems like a long time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and we were together before that. Yeah, now that's all good. Well I'm thinking, well maybe maybe someday. Well, I think it's fine for you. It will be all right.
You didn't ask me for my romantic guestory, and I don't know why I felt the need to tell you, but.
It's nice to figure out. It's catches. I met, I met, I met your your your at the hockey the other night. We went to the New York Rangers. Yeah. Yeah, my youngest son. I have two of them. Yes, because you're and he's Yeah, because you're you're was about the same. It's just one of my kids, yeah, right, twenty three three three yeah, Yeah. I have a daughter that's twenty one, just turning twenty one on the sixteenth muscle toough. You're
gonna have a party. She is, because she's turning twenty one in America, right, So what that means, Yeah, you could drink yeah, without taking her fake idea out with it.
Yeah, it seems to me coming from where's was the drinking age in Canada?
Canada is nineteen yeah, Scotland. I think it's twelve five five? Yeah, No, I think I think it's I think it's eighteen in Scotland. Yeah, maybe sixteen. Yeah. The effective drinking age in Canada is much lower. Yes, the effective drinking agent for me. I started drinking I was thirteen. Yeah, I was around there. Yeah. Yeah. Did you ever run out of problems with the booze? Oh? God? No? Oh? Good for you? Yeah yeah, yeah, little.
You know what I've always meant to ask you. You related to the fully people that do the special effects, remember the fully thing. I don't think so, because I should try to find no. Or I don't think we're related to the catheter people either. They make catheters.
Yeah, the fully there is as a medical instrument that so far I have.
I used to avoid that one so far. Aaging is an undignified process, though, isn't it? Oh it is, yeah, it is. I find that you and I are almost exactly the same man. I was nineteen sixty two, I.
Was born I'm sixty three. Yeah, oh I'm older than you. Yeah, January January sixty three, Oh right, May sixty two, so much less less seven or eight months. But I find myself you're drinking black coffee. I'm drinking a very unpleasant drink called pure green. Yeah, it's garbage. I just I just was in my pharmacy. Uh, you own a farmace, Yeah, I bought a pharmacy because for you, of acting isn't stable. No, it is. No. I wish I owned a pharmacy. I wish I owned a farm, and I kind of part
part of my life. I wish you. And at this point, I don't even own a car. At this point, well you live in New York. Yeah, I need a car. We down a car for no. But I went in and was looking at like a big tub of powder that said, you know, greens on it, and asking a young man who worked there, and you basically just said you look healthy. Is this any good? But no, but I was born in two thousand and four. Yeah, you ready said yeah, this is good. So I haven't tried
it yet, but I'm yeah, I'll be drinking that. It's just there's so many unpleasant things to eat and drink because you Yeah, yeah, I'm doing things like but I'm taking a bag of supplements this big right, you can't see this on your radio football. I was going to say small lord to mid sized watermelon. Yeah, and which is about the size of Yeah. And do you do you have that that red Every every day there's that period I have to go take a fist full of pills. No,
I don't. It's oh, it's good. And and some of them are prescriptions. I had prescription for No, No, that's that's your balls sophag Oh, yes, the gurd meppersol right, netpersol. Yeah, you take that, that's one of my supplements. Well, let me tell you about that thing though. You gotta be careful. You take that too long and then suddenly you're you know, I've already been taking it too long. What's up? Don't worry about it. It's fine. It's totally totally harmless every way. Yeah,
it's right, you call it that. Yeah, So yeah, I get the Jared and I had to have a school. My dad died of cancer. That's yeah, that's why I that's why I'm still taking the metpersolts because they told me, if you don't treat it. They can, they can lead to that. Yeah, have you got the Barretts? Is that where you got? I don't know what's what's that Barrett's esophagus? I don't know what that is. Well, it's two things.
One it was one of the forgotten bands of woodstock, and the other one is that it was inflammation or some kind of disease of yours.
Yeahocracy until they get to what do I have to do?
Don't listen to any of the Yeah, yeah, here here's the thing, Bob, have you been on vacation this year?
All that stuff they say, yes, that take this.
I don't know, though, I find myself a little more health conscious than.
I used to be. Yeah, because age is terrifying. Yeah, well, but there's all this great science on aging that's being done. Oh really, Yeah, Like you've read me up with like David Sinclair. Who's David Sinclair? He is a scientist. Where is he from? Was he with them out here? Harvard? I can't remember now, but he wrote a book Aging and Why Maybe we don't have to something like that.
It's the title of the book. It's like an easy click. Yeah, but he's been doing stuff like he's actually in the lab halted and reversed the aging and mice, and believes he can do that in humans. That, yeah, you can actually just turn your age back about twenty years. Uh. And then I bet it involves fasting. No, this is just basically a pill. Uh Yeah, hang on, I'm listening. Yeah. Is it colder zampic by any other? No? No, although he does, he does promote the fasting, which I do.
I do. I do too, I do too. I actually get a kickout. I can't. Like, I haven't eaten anything today, and I've had a banana, Yeah, only because my wife was here. Yeah, eat a banana forgot? No, I haven't even I haven't eaten breakfast in years, like right, I don't usually eat till like at least two o'clock.
Yeah, I'm kind of like that anyway. I I kind of it's not that hard to do in mid fasting.
That's kind of. Now your sleep for most of it. Yeah, that's right, you're sleep for most of it. Yeah.
But one thing I have to see, this is a geezer thing that I have to say. If I don't eat for like four or five hours before I go to sleep, if I can go to sleep, hungry.
I sleep a little better, yeah, because yeah, no, I think I yeah, I stop eating at ten right when you go to sleep? Uh me, usually around between midnight and two usually, Yeah, what do you do? Are you at the club? No? No, I'm lying in bed, fasting alright, worrying about things. Oh my god? Yeah, god, I still worry about everything else. And well, you have children, you're never gonna don't worry. Yeah, you're gonna be worried all
the time. Yeah. The Craig Ferguson Fancy Rascal Stand Up Tour continues throughout the United States in twenty twenty four. For a full list of dates and tickets, go to the Craig Ferguson show dot com slash tour. So you are there, do you believe the adage you're only as happy as your least happy child? Oh? I oh help not? Well wait a minute. What if you don't pay attention to that child? Well, well then you're all right, all right. That's that's part of the reverse aging process. It's a
reverse reach around of age. If you only think about yourself, then you'll be fine. Yeah, somebody talk to me about a zempic because a friend of mine who you know, lost a little weight with a zempick. And I was like, is it good? Because I was you know who couldn't lose a little way, I'd love to lose some weight.
And he said, yeah, it really works. You just you know, really, you have no appetite. You know, you're just not hungry now, Like I haven't been hungry since the nineteen seventies. I don't eat because I'm hungry. Are you because I'm sad? Yes, I'm sad. I totally understand that. Yeah, I need something to cheer me up. I'm thinking more cocaine. Cocaine cheer issue up.
And loan calories and lone calories and you don't feel like eating.
Yeah, it does seem to have dramatic behavioral side effects, not that I've ever noticed. Well, okay, fair enough. In that case, we read my screenplate. You read my screenplay.
So how does it start for you? You're in Toronto.
Yes, you're a beautiful little boy with a school uniform and you're the pride of the Foley family. You go, this is the new catheter boy for us, right, because you're not from a show business.
Family or no, I'm from a construction family. Right, So they're like, yeah, that was a pipe yeah, Dave. Well my dad, my dad was a pipefitter who wanted to who want wanted to be lumberjack No, no, no, uh jack kerouac basically oh wow. Yeah. He wanted to be a you know, working class poet. Right. Yeah. But but the only part of that that he really got down was the alcoholism. Yes, yes, my old yeah, you know,
we're you know, he was like second generation Canadian Irish. Yeah, and so it was it was kind of a working class family, but a working class family with pretensions. I guess you'd say my mom was just straight up working class English with no pretensions. Yes, it was no dive. Yes, oh well why would why would they want you to do that? Yeah? Do you want to you want to invent the catheter? Invent the catheter? Yeah? I know. Yeah,
my mom was, Yeah, it was. Her philosophy was you're only two philosophical ideas were don't fuss, okay, and her second was, oh that's how they get you. Well, you know, it's not bad.
Actually it's a little it's a little stark and bleak, and it's and it's belt and yeah, but it's.
Okay, Yeah, it's always everyone's always out to get you. Yeah.
Yeah, my mother used to see. My mother used to say stuff whenever we went to a store.
I was a kid. I remember that.
She would say, like she would get this when back when people had money instead of you know, cards, so it would be you know cash and coins and stuff and notes and coins or now case coins.
And she would say, once we walked out the store, she would say, did you see that girl trying to take my change? I said, I said, yes, she was thinking about taking my change, but then she saw me looking at her. She changed mind. And I was like, I don't see the world like everyone trying to take your change. Yeah, but I understand that some people do. Yes, Andy, I do see the world.
But I thought, anyway, So you're the pipe Fitter's alcoholic pipefitter son, Yeah, I think I feel like that's the beginning of a limerick. It was only an alcoholic pipe fitters son.
Good'll work out the rest of Yeah, we'll put it in and post. So the So what happened? How did you get the show business? Accidentally? Really? It was? I think when I was a kid, I thought I would I thought maybe I would be a writer, right, I like writing a lot, and you know, I thought, I, you know, and I would write funny things. It was my you know, because I was always the funny one in my group of friends when when I when I would have one. Uh. And to be fair, that's that's
pretty little bar Canada. Yeah, have you met Jim Carrey? Just kidding it was a joke. Oh man, the uh but so we're in Literally it was little. I was in high school and an alternative high school, which meant I was not doing anything that was ever going to make me graduate. Hold on an altenative high school. It was like a hippie high school. Oh, it was like one of these high schools that started in the late sixties. How does the Pipe First Sun get into an aeutenative
high school? Well, my older brother went there and in like the early seventies, right, and I went there and I saw it. I went down and visited it. It was you know, when he went there, it was like this crazy school that was full of hippies and graffiti on all the walls and it was just very cool. It seemed very cool. Is that boarding school? No, No, nope, And this is public school too. It is run by
the Board of education. So it was all free, right, And so I thought though that when I get when I'm old enough, I'm going to go to that school. And so yeah, so I after, you know, during like one year regular high school, I transferred to this alternative high school, and which I said was kind of like a school for smart troublemakers. So it was a way funneling all the people who were causing trouble in regular
high school out of the system, okay, you know. And so I went went there and we met had this great group of friends that were all everyone. Everyone was a poet and a painter and and troublemakers. Yes, ye, troublemakers. They're all kind of caravac Yeah yeah, right, and you know,
and it was you know, it's the thing. You know, you called your teachers by the first names and good or classes are only about seven or eight people, and at the beginning of each class, we only had tutorials, not really classes, right, and you would we would vote on whether to be a smoking or non smoking class. Wow, yes, and uh, no class ever voted to be non smoking. You shocked me. Yeah, wow, that's this is incredible. Yeah, And then we had we had a little common room
for the students. Uh and literally we would just go in there, listen to old Pink, Floyd and Kink's albums and smoke pot and drink wine.
That sounds like every you don't usually get it kind of you know provide. So is that where you met the other kids in the mill?
No? No, that's but that's where I a friend of mine on the way to school one day, I've been making her laugh all the way to school. Evelyn Chippea. Always give her a credit. Right. We were riding the bus, you know, like a forty five minute trip to the school, and we're riding the bus together and I was making her laugh all the way to school. We were just
having fun. And then as we're getting off the bus, he goes, you know, you should do stand up And I went on, I never thought about it, and I said, well, you know, I'll see if I can write something right, And that's basically it. I decided, Okay, I'll sit down and I'll try to write a stand up set, and you know, sort of dug into like studying house stand
up sets work. How do the work? I don't know, but I did a lot of like research on maybe too much research on Lenny Bruce, right right, because I decided I was really going to set up to be a seventeen year old Lenny Bruce.
Well that's a caraway aspiration, you know, that's the kind of I'm not only going to be funny, I'm going to be important and respect and maybe perhaps even dead. Yeah yeah, that's very comedic. I yes, I must very comedian, you know, I must be respected.
As well as be fun yes, yeah, and you know, and I always and I was already a fairly heavy drinker at that point, so for you know, all lighted up, ready to go, yeah, and like you know, and enjoyed a few different drugs. So so yeah, so I started writing set, and I thought, well, the only way to find out if this really works is to go down to the local, the Yuck Yuck's Comedy Club Yug Yucks Toronto. YEAHYX Toronto. Yeah there's still one. I think there's still
one there. Yeah. I never played. I've never played at Yuk Yuck. No. No, they used to be the only thing you could play in Canada, right, Yeah. So I went down and started doing open mics and uh and then they do and they went okay, yeah, yeah, it was sort of a I would. I would be a hit every time I do it, and I would, and I would. Every time i'd go back, I'd write a whole new set. Wow. So like you know, you know, you go down, you're doing like five to seven minutes, right,
And so every time i'd go i'd have it. I'd write a new five to seven minutes.
Which would eventually turn into you go to an hour eventually if I kept at it. Well you didn't keep at it, no.
Because somebody suggested, oh you should do there's these improv classes you could take. And again going back to my Lenny Bruce thing, right, I knew he did a lot of improv and enjoined him.
Not an improv classes, No, he wouldn't be like, okay, give me the name of a political ideology that you're angry.
Yeah. Yeah. So I thought, well I'll go try to learn some improv skills, right, and and so I started taking went to Second City classes.
And now that's real, that's that's like proper show business.
Second City in Toronto is like, yeah, it's like their legendary yeah of court. Yeah yeah. And so I went and in my very first class, I was paired up with a guy named Kevin McDonald. Oh no, we're the kids in the whole are beginning to form yes. And that was just random our teacher Alan Gutman doing okay, let's pair off one two one two one two, just like that. Wow, And Kevin and I got paired together.
We made each other laugh doing a stupid mirror exercise and uh, and we both were like, you're very funny man. Well and we were clearly we were mocking the exercise as we were doing. As you're doing the exercise, Yeah, that's good, you know. And so it was like, I go, oh, I like this guy makes me laugh and he has the same attitude to me about anything we're being asked to do, right, and uh. At the end of that class, he asked me to join his comedy troupe. And what
were they called? They were, well, I think at the time he didn't really have well, he did have one, but Kevin likes to say he didn't. But the truth is he was in a group with a guy named Luciano Kasumiri and another fellow named Scott Stewart that they were called Uncle Vanier and the three sisters at the time. Okay, and uh, so I joined and ko Oh. Yeah, so I joined them and actually it became just Kevin Luchen myself and we became eventually the first version of the
Kids in the Hall. Oh so, the three of us were the original Kids in the Hall, and then we met up with Mark and Bruce's troop called the Audience, and then we sort of merged into when.
The big kids in the Hall and then what you offered buy CVC, come and see and they go, these kids are great, Hey, let's get them on TV.
Well no, oh god, no, Canada. No, that's not how it works. No, No, these kids should be in jail. Yeah. No. We started doing these shows and eventually Scott. Then Scott joined as the fifth member final and we were doing these shows on Queen Street in Toronto, which is kind of like you know, the like the the hipster sections. Yeah, it's a little more upscale now than it used to. I guess the hipster scene has moved further west.
Well, I guess it had to. Yeah, Toronto is a vastly chased city in the last twenty five years. Yes, the density is believable. You know, when I first went to Toronto, I think it's probably in the nineteen nineties, there was only one condo in Toronto.
Yes, and it was shared. It was it was a time share with Gordon Light Lift Gordon and he sang that old song only condo in Toronto, which is a favorite Buffy. Saint Marie got its Wednesdays and Friday's right of Saint Marie. And then I think Rush used it over the Christmas period and that was it. Yeah. But now it's just like it's condo city. Yeah. The lake is walled off by condos.
Unbelievable, right, I mean it's crazy. Used to be able to see that thing on the drive in from the airport and now it's just like bang, yes, you get off the plane and it's condos everywhere.
Oh yeah, and it's insanely expensive. Traffic is horrible, worse than Los Angeles. Yeah, Small, they have terrible smog in Toronto. How can that be in Canada? Yeah, Small, I know, smog should be the name of a puppy and it's it's it's really strange. Yeah, Toronto has changed incredible, believable.
Yeah, so you got your troupe together and how do you get on CBC?
Then, well that happened because we were doing these shows on Queen Street, and they gradually became more and more popular, and you guys like Beatles in the cat Yeah, it was it was getting like that, but you know, but comedy so smaller. But we were, yeah, we were. We had like lineups around the block for show what you know, and uh and we were you know, and and people from s c TV started coming to see our show, you know, especially Dave. Dave Thomas became a mentor to
we're talking about Catherine O'Hara and her sister Mary. Margaret used to come to the shows all the time. I remember now late Joe Flaherty used to come down, Marty Short would come down, so uh, you know, so we had all these you know, I think Eugene came to some of the shows. So we had all of our heroes comings.
Like me, Me and Peter Cook and stuff like that. It was like crazy. So we were like, you know, overwhelmed by that. So that we were coming really sort of known in Toronto.
So then we got scouted for Saturday Night Live in I guess, uh it was eighty five, but because Yvonne Fassan, who was a late night vice president at NBC at the time, I know nothing about that world. Yes, I really don't. Yeah, well he was a vice so he was there, and then he recommended us for Saturday Night Live, and then shortly after that he left NBC and started running the CBC in Canada. So I think it was Al Frankin, and I kept thinking it was Jim Downey.
Kevin keeps saying it was Davis Frankin and Davis, I forget his name, Tom Davis, Tom, No, No, I don't think so, I remember him. But so they came. We did like an audition at the RIVALI our club in an empty rivaly to just like Frank, Al frank and Dave Thomas, and I think it was Jim Downey and we did an and eventually they hired Mark and Bruce as apprentice writers for the first Saturn Life in eighty five. Okay,
and then they wanted to split up the band. Yeah, And but what happened was they went down and started writing Kids in the Whole sketches for Saturday Night Live and none of them got on the air. What a surprise, And oh no thanks, I'm good here. And then this is not my this is not my prostate, this is me pouring war. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, you can hear my prostag is going home? What's going on? I'm here. Yeah,
there's a time, it's always time. Yep. But this they kept coming back on the weeks off because turns out they have a lot of time off on Saturday A Live. I never worked on US. I know they talked about how hard it is the off show a week yeah, and then yeah, they get week off every three weeks. Yeah,
I mean come on. So they'd come back and we would do shows in Toronto, and again they get more and more popular, and and eventually I think, you know, David, Marty and Catherine all kept telling Lauren that you should come up and see the troop yourself. Right, So, and which is this is almost never happens. I've never heard of Lauren leaving New York City. No, say it for the Amys. No, Lauren flew up to Toronto, came to a nightclub, you know, on Queen Street, Wow, and watched
us do an entire show. And and we did a really long show and a lot of we even did new sketches, that's how arrogant we were. And so then it was the after about Lauren was deciding whether to take some of us to SNL. This is did we say, Lauren Michaels, Yes, Lauren Michaels, and so it's uh. So was Laurene who decided, after a few days of thinking about it, that he didn't want to break the group up.
Good friend. Yeah, so he decided he wasn't gonna take anyone to Saturday Live, and he was going to try and find a place to do a Kids in the Hall show, and and he flew us all down to New York for six months. Wow. Uh to uh to write and to be hardened as he said that that I'm sure that doesn't happen anymore. No, it was amazing.
I mean, and Lauren, you know, as I said, like, it was totally Lauren's call, that that that the Kids in the Hall still exists, because if he was going to take some of us to Surnent Live, you know, that would have been an end of it. Yeah, that's weird. Would you have gone, Oh my god? Yes, oh yeah,
I still wish. Sure those guys so, because the whole runs for a while and then you end up living in la right, Yeah, we do our five years of kids and then I get then I got hired to do news radio right after.
That's what I was going to say, because news radio, you were doing that right and about the time I started on the Drew Carry Show.
Yes, because you guys are what finally killed us. No, yeah, oh yeah, because there was a guy, the guy in church of scheduling at NBC had been trying to kill us since we since we did the pilot. Wow, he hated the show. It was the name Preston Beckman. I was Preston. He hated news radio. News radio was a great show. Oh, but he just despised it and was
mad that he got picked up. But he was in charge of scheduling because like when we were first scheduled, we were supposed to get on that that Thursday line up, Yeah, the Thursday the Friends and yeah, but this guy said no, He refused to let us on, and he kept pairing us with shows that were struggling. Yeah, so I think, but we were. I think we originally paired with Wings
that were struggling. Okay, that show lasted forever, yes, and but we brought up Wings ratings like once we were pairing the Wings ratings went weigh out right, And so then he moved us to Sundays with Mad About You, which was struggling and I'm seat yes, And then then he moved us I forget what night it was, but with a third Rock, which was also struggling at the top all right, And again the pairing put the ratings up and and and our show kept building to be
a top twenty show over and over again, and but he kept moving us to try and so we had like eight time slots. What a dick. Yeah, And eventually the Drew Carey Show came on and he put us up against Drew Carey, right, and it was kind of a I think we're both going for the same audience in a lot of ways. That's probably right. Yeah, So that and and that show was such a hit.
That but you know, I didn't pay any attention to that show when I was doing it, funnily.
Enough, because you were succeeding. That's what happens when you're Yeah, you don't just you just don't pay any attention when you're failing like us, Oh my god, when you're failing. I pay a lot of attention to my failures. You know. It's funny.
I was talking to somebody, a woman not in children very intelligent, accomplished woman who's not in show business. And she was telling me how much she liked David E. Kelly's work. I was like, yeah, no doubt, he's a genius. And she said he never fails, and I'm like, no, no, he does. He feels as much as everybody else. But you don't hear about his failures because that's what show business is. If you succeed, people know about it.
If you fail, the only people that know about it other people in show business. That's it. That's it now, see, that's that's American show business, Canadian show business.
All anyone talks about the failures. Yeah, I don't know. It's been a while since I've been anywhere I went. I did a show in Scotland, I think just before the COVID thing, so probably like twenty eighteen or something, twenty nineteen. I hadn't done a show in forever in Scotland and I kind of liked the doing the live thing with a live audience.
But I don't know. I don't think you can go back like that once you leave, like you did an actual TV show, No, but you don't know, like a stand up fuck. No, I didn't do a TV show. No.
I did it one night at the Edinburgh Festival in the playoffs and I liked it. Yeah, but I think that's as much as I would ever do.
Yeah, TV show. No, I was wondering, Yeah, you would never do a sitcom first a BBC. I couldn't afford to the BBC pay people. It's like, oh, that'll be uh, you know, forty eight pounds and your own vouchers for the county. The news radio. Phil Hartman was in news radio. He was, Yes, it was Phil killed. Durdan was just killed during the hiatus of the fourth between the fourth
and fifth season. It's a terrible, terrible story, that isn't that. No, it was, Yes, it was, and I was I was on set in Toronto shooting a movie when when I heard it. Yeah, it's such a horrible, horrible tale. And that was what ninety eight or yes, yeah, it might be around that time, Yeah, because I remember everyone in Hollywood was like the whole the whole town was like yeah, God, it was crazy, just crazy. And I don't even think TMZ existed. No, I don't think so. I don't know, I don't think so.
It was like it was so I think because you were there at the time. I always thought. And then I'm not talking about Phil Hartman, but I'm talking about the time in Hollywood, the nineties, the late nineties.
It was covered expertly in BoJack Horseman. Actually I think, oh, yeah, I have I have to watch more. I haven't watched the whole song. Oh BoJack is great man watching it, And then I didn't follow Oh no, yeah, you got it. It's it's insanely good. But in the the medt to late nineties and nearly two thousands, really as well, I thought all it was it felt kind of like a sleepy sort of a place, do you know what I mean?
It was kind of yeah, quiet ish. You know, maybe it's because my life was quiet h then I suppose it. But show business felt different then it did. It felt Yeah, it felt like less dangerous. Yeah, it was really it was nice. It kind of was you know, it was it was like, you know, you didn't expect to get attacked all the time publicly for making some dumb joke, which is great because my career has been almost entirely dumb jokes. Yeah, there was no yeah, there was no social media, right, you know.
I think social media is like I'm all for technology. I'm all for smartphones and like, you know, electronic you know, age extension, penis extension.
Whatever the hell you go going on? Yeah, my penis is over four feet long. Now, well that's the electronic. That's the wonder of digitization. My mine. I haven't begun working mine yet, but yeah, you know I used to mind as a as a walking stick. Well you know, age comes for result. But the thing is about it. I think with the social media, I find myself I
really hate it. You have to do it. It's kind of like like people say, oh, you have to do it, I have to yeah, oh yeah, And it's I remember like like doing honest think that this sitcumb Doctor Ken, Right, that was the first show I was on where they had a social media person. Right, that was their job and that we would have to do. We would all the whole cast would have to gather in a room to do live tweeting or you know, live tweeting the episode that's airing.
I had a conversation with Kevin Bacon about this very thing. He was he was pissed about it because he did this. I can't remember which show he was working on. But he said he was doing it was a drama. He's kept big and he's a proper actor and he is not that you aren't, but yeah, I'm not, but Kevin is.
And I was talking to him about it, and he said, it's so weird because they want me to live tweet, you know, the show going out, and the entire job is me trying to convince everyone that I'm not Kevin Bacon, but at the same time putting out stuff saying, oh, I remember this day, it was really cold and we had you know.
Our coffee was late arriving, ruining the show absolutely the wrong thing. Yeah, but I think that everything has turned into something different, which is I suppose one of the effects of living long enough that you start saying because I noticed when I drive my family around, I say, my kids, you know that KFC that.
Used to be a subway, and he's like, things used to be different. Oh yeah, and the generation right now, the Zoomer's a lot of people say bad things about it, and I'm happy to join.
I know they're fucking Jesus, what a bunch of touchy up type fucker. I know. Well, I have to say I'm delighted that my daughter and her friends are fully aware that they are part of the worst generation of all time. It's not I look out.
I'm sure if they were called on to do something spectacular, they probably rise to the occasion. And it's a ludicrous idea to say a whole generation of people is. But they are in the fashion and the popular culture right now.
I'm like, fucking keep it.
She Yeah, like when you go, you're gonna be nostalgic for that ship In twenty years. Yeah, I don't think so, you'll be recycling your shit like my shit, my seventies and eighties, nineties shit is being recycled like a motherfucker by these guys.
But yeah, but they said, my daughter is teaching me about my own youth exactly, and that.
Stuff's being recycled. Who's going to recycle what's going on now?
No, but they might. I don't know. Yeah, I think it's part of the agent process.
I guess as you complain about the youth, But I don't think all the youth, just the ones that I hear about.
It's just it's it's a weird, and it's largely our fault, as the people that gave birth to this generation. Maybe that we I was reading everyone gets well, it's also just that we, in our paranoia, we didn't allow our children any space to become individuals, to to to take risks, get hurt and cope with being hurt, you know. And because we, you know, we we protected them and sheltered them so much for no real reason, because it was like nouse.
Statistically, it wasn't any more dangerous than any other time.
No, in fact, probably it was much more dangerous. There were probably more incidents of harm to children back in the sixties right than we're in the nineties.
Years and thou shit that was going on when I was a kid in the sexties, Jesus Christ, it was so awful shit going down.
So we silo our kids away from the world, did everything for them. They never learned how to even navigate around the block. They never walked to school on their own, never went you know, never did like you can, never never sent to the store to buy bread. You know, all the things I was doing when I was six years old. You know, your alcoholic father. Yes, everyone should have an alcoholic Buy me some smokes. I wonder though, if.
It's not just a product of aging that you just complain about the youth.
Well, I don't know, because this this is sort of a sociological study that basically we there's a period of time in your life when you should be going out and individuating and taking risks, and our kids didn't. So we have kids who are ill equipped to handle risk or conflict, yes, or conflict. And then and then at the same time, we give them this technology that makes the feel under threat all the time. Yeah, and that
allows them to destroy each other. Yeah. So we give them technology that is absolutely destructive and we give them no skills to cope with it. And it's a terrible mixture. So what's going to happen next that? What are they going to do with their kids if they have any kids? Well, their kids, well they won't There won't be many of them. I was said by they said, all what we're going through, that will end when your kids are old enough to
hate you. Yeah, and that's coming. Yeah. I noticed that there are changes afoot.
I mean, look, if I have one discernible skill, and I think this one is even doubtful, But if I have one discernible skill, it's being able to read the room. And I'm kind of going things are changing again, yeah, because they always do.
Yeah, well, I mean back in the in the eighties, right, right, it's a tricky time for me. I was pretty chemical. Yeah, in the eighties, this is when the first the term politically correct came about. Yes, that's right, remember that. Yeah, And like us and the kids in the hall, we were, you know, people would always we would always have to be interviewed about you know, how do you feel about
political correctness? That's right. I remember. I remember Bill Maher had that Politically and Correct show I used to go on time. And one of the greatest achievements of the political correct movement is that they managed to make Andrew Dice Clay a stadium performers as a as a reaction r. You know, they took they took a really mediocre Is that too generous a term?
I think it's it's kind of yeah, it's it's nice, but you're a nice guy.
Yeah, all right, So a really mediocre comedian and turned him into a guy that can play like multiple nights at Madison Square guard he was huge. Yeah, and that you know, and that was that's how political correctness paid off in the eighties, you know, and we asked about it, and we'd always say, look, we believe in it. We believe that, you know, the political correctness is just about being aware of people and their history and their and it's been done to them and wanting to be sensitive
to it. And then we're all in favor of that. But you know, but we don't think you can tell us that there's something that isn't funny or something you can't joke about.
Well, that's the interesting thing about comedy is because it's completely subjective. Like my father used to say when we were watching Top of the Pulps in Britain when punk rock was going on, he would.
Go, that's not music, that's just a noise.
Yeah, And I'll go, well, that's guy, what music is that it's a noise that it's arranged in certain different sequences that you find either pleasing or not pleasing.
That's what it is.
I didn't quite say that at the time because I was like fourteen, but I remember thinking, no.
Dad, you didn't understand.
Yeah, but people say that about comedy all the time, to say that's not comedy, and you go, well, all these motherfuckers that are laughing disagree with you, so clearly it is a matter of opinion, what is funny and what's not. Yeah, And I think that that's kind of interesting because there is at this point it's really interesting that if you don't share the opinion of a group of people, they try and invalidate you by not having
that opinion, which I don't understand. Yes, it's like it's like in a political debate, you know, in the political arena, if you take the most contentious political stance, well, all these people are wrong.
Well, all these people think you're wrong.
So perhaps the job is not trying to make these people think like you, but create a society where everyone can think different things, yes, and still be treated yes, decency.
And that seemed like that seemed like that was the target when we were young. I seem to remember it being the thrust of it that we were working towards. As I said, I felt like we were trying to dissolve the definitions that separated people into different categories, right, you know, we were trying to dissolve the gender differences and the racial differences exactly, and so that they would not be a consideration categorizing people based on an instant decision,
you know, or large groups of people. Yeah, whereas and now it feels like the goal is to create narrower and narrower definitions for different sections of humanity. It's like everyone's defining themselves these very narrow contexts and which is which is totally fine.
I think as long as you don't try and invalidate everyone else who isn't like you.
Would you want to live forever? I don't know. I used to. I used to really want to live forever because I wanted I didn't want to miss anything. I didn't want like I really wanted I want to Will you be missing death? Then? I mean that might be the best part. I know, Well that's what I'm starting to think. Yes, But I used to always just want to, you know, I want to know what's because I kept I was very obsessed with science and technology, and I wanted to see what was coming next, what cool things
are going to happen? And and I was an atheist. So you're not anymore, Well I'm still an atheist, sure, but but but but no, I'm an ath I'm an atheist, but I'm no longer as steadfastly a materialist.
Okay, see, I'm no longer an atheist. I I was at sand point an atheist, and I'm like, it's far too arrogant, that's to take it. It is an unscientific, ludicrous position to take.
I don't know about that. Yeah.
For my for I feel like if you say this is the definitive, there is definitively no deity.
It's like based on law. But that isn't the definition of an atheist. What is it that the definition of an atheist is I don't believe there's a god. Not that I know there's a there is, isn't. I don't believe there's a god. Yeah, I don't have a belief that there is a god, right, And a theist is someone who does believe there's a Well, I'm a theist. Like, but a theist can't prove there is a god or
is it a god? I can't prove it at all, and either can an atheist, but one one believes one doesn't, right, So like the true definition. That's why I always say agnostic doesn't mean anything, right, because it's really just you know, for people that hope they can it'll be a.
It's in your bad Yeah, gnostic does me, I mean I means without.
Gnostic means knowledge, So it means without knowledge. So it's quiet.
It's fair to say I am without knowledge, isn't it?
Yes, But being a theist it has nothing to do with knowledge. It is to do with belief. There's no knowledge in being a theist.
Well, unless you define what you see as evidence, you have to decide whatever. If you go, well, you know the fact that you know what reasons my suspicions that it might be a god is when I see a dog using a crosswalk, I think there may be more to.
This, and I thought, but evidence isn't proof, and it's not. That's true. That is not proof. I could not prove it.
But at the same time, did you see Miracle in thirty fourth Street when they had to prove Santa was real?
Yes? Did they I can't remember at the end of that movie. Did they prove Santa? They? Well, they didn't, right, but the movie tells you he's real. But they they through a legal, legal trickery, right, Yeah, they brought in all the mail from the US post Office and that proved Santapais And the judge said, well, I'm not going to argue with the United States, right, and then Santa's yeah, Well, Okay, so that's that's not bad. Here's what I thought. I've
become quite interested recently in Renee Descartes. Yes, who, as you know, is the I would say, arguably the father of modern philosophical thought. Right, yeah, yeah, all right. So his famous thing is about I think, therefore I am.
But what but leading up to it, of course, the reason why he gets to that point is he wants to use reason to prove the existence of God, or approach the existence of God using reason instead of revelation, so using basically belief. Right, So he says, Okay, what I'll do is I'll begin by doubting everything.
I doubt everything. So he doubts everything.
And so if you doubt everything, including the existence of God, I doubt all that, the existence of myself, existence of everything.
I doubt everything. The only thing that is impossible to doubt is that you are doubting. And if you're doubting, that is cognitive. That's a decision. You are thinking yes. And if you are thinking, you exist cognito ergo sum I think therefore I am, and I think, Oh, that's quite a good way of going about it. And he approaching the existence of God talking about the proofs of the existence of God. One which I found fascinating is that all societies have an appetite, even atheists have an
appetite for God. Even if you dismiss the existence of God, you still discuss it.
Right, there is an appetite for it. And for every appetite there is a satiation of an appetite for lust.
There is sex for hunger, there is food for you know.
So in the natural scheme of things he used reason is the appetite, the desire for the existence of God is a proof of the existence of God.
Yes, well, I would I reject, really need to cut I do. That's but in part I think it's an appetite for meaning, not an appetite for God discussed.
Well, then it's semantics, Meaning and God are the same thing.
No they aren't.
Oh I think so. No, God is just one form of meaning. No, God is a huge word God. I mean, look, is God angry Santo in a cloud? Don't be absurd?
Is God?
You know the definition of intelligent design or something beyond the pale? Then I think, yes.
Well, here's the view I came to over years was that through evolution, yes, our brains one of the few advantages we have from an evolutionary standpoint was that we develop a brain that could, uh could codify the world in terms of meanings, right, and that eventually that also that gradually led to language and communities and civilizations and societies.
But the but it's that initial state of a brain that gives meaning to things, a brain that that that picks up a rock and breaks it and goes, hmm, that's not just That's not just a broken rock right now, that's a tool or a weapon that a sharp edge.
And we were able to, you know, uh, sort of rise above our limitations because we're frail animals with like we're shitting, We can't run fast, our teeth are useless, we have no claws, opposable thumbs though, yeah the good but yeah, but not so good against a tiger, you know, like ah, yeah. So that's how we survived as a species was by giving meaning to objects and like like, for example, this is a table not because of anything intrinsic about it. It's only a table because we say
it's a table and agree it's a table. A cat doesn't know it's a table, so a cat will sleep on it, right, you know, So we have a brain that is constantly encoding everything around us in terms of meaning. So that's good, yes, But it also means that at some point you go, oh, I'm going to die. Yes, how do I how do I give meaning to that? But I don't think it's about death. Well, I think it is. I think it is for me.
For me, it's though, I'm quite happy to admit that with the end of life there is nothing.
Yeah, but as associated as a society, as a species, yes we have we don't do that. And even that is you're you're you're ascribing a kind of meaning to death as well. Well, it's both, that's true, yea. And my thought was all right, so the human brain is incapable of observing anything without giving it meaning. Good, right,
I like where you go? So I would say, even to other atheists, said, so, even as an atheist, you're going to adopt some system of meaning, and it may be just as ludicrous and unfounded as any religious system of meaning. Right, you know, like you may decide that you're gonna, you're gonna your meaning comes from having.
Children, or your meaning comes from rejecting religion, which is not necessarily good or meaning or art or art or something.
You know, like a lot of artists who are atheists say, well, you know, I create my art and that's where my meaning comes from, right, And I would say to them, well, that's stupid, because if we're correct, you're going to die and all the things you've created will be immediately meaningless to you, you know, because if we die and it ends, then everything is meaningless. And so you just have to kind of accept that if that's the reality.
If time is linear, you're correct. But if time is not linear, I mean, time is only a construct of humans trying to give meaning to yes, the in the area in which they Well, so if time is not lenear, yes, man, it's all, which it probably isn't. I would imagine it's probably not as simple as we think.
Well, that's the thing. Is where I'm heading to is that that was the belief I had until over the last less than ten years. Okay, And here's the and
my route to this came through looking at the UFO phenomena. Ah, you know, which I don't know if you know this, but I actually do a podcast about UFOs now, but it yeah, and it came up basically I started you know, It's something I was always interested in, right, I would take it sort of seriously when something really crazy would happen then and that would sort of buy the stories
and go, oh, well, I'll ignore it for now. Right and then, but like about ten years ago, you know, sort of, I saw a documentary that was so compelling that it got me thinking I really should look at this a little closer, right, And that was a movie called Out of the Blue by James Fox, and it was just went through the history of modern UFO phenomena and was interviewing people who had had, you know, really credible people who had had really amazing encounters and a
lot of real data. There's a lot of real data on it. And I thought, all right, I got to keep I got to keep an open mind about this. And like many people who get into that subject, eventually you wind up in a place where you're realizing that a lot of the phenomena is about consciousness and about how it interacts with consciousness. And then you start looking at, well,
how does consciousness work? And then you wind up getting into things like well, looking at things like near death experiences and you and what is death and taking that seriously. So once you open this aperture of what you're willing to look at. All the things you've been told are silly and unscientific, but they keep happening anyway, and one of them, you know, is like, then, actually, I just watched this great documentary on YouTube called Rethinking Death from
New York University Hospital a Parnia Lab. And these are really mainstream medical people who have come a long way from even just a few years ago where they're not dismissing near death experiences. In fact, they're saying that right now because we've extended the length of time that we can bring someone back after they've died, like over an hour, right Like, people are dead for over an hour and
they're being revived and having these stories of experiences. And they've even changed the term from near death experience to recalled experience of death because they're saying these people weren't near dead, they were seriously dead, almost completely dead. Yes.
For the field, yes, And knowing that from people who have had encounters with with UFOs and that so much of it is is an encounter that isn't about the material world, then I'm no longer a materialist because there's just too much evidence.
See, I don't think that ties with atheism at all, because I feel like if you say, if your definition is atheism and theism is a theist is someone who believes in a God, and an atheist to someone who's just not believing a God.
Then what you're saying.
I'm not trying to dismiss what you're saying, but what I take from that is to not believe is an unscientific stance because it shuts down the avenue of exploration. I don't you know, if you say I don't believe in a God, I find that too didactic and non scientific. If I can say I believe in a God, which I have absolutely no idea what that is, but I believe more than I don't believe.
But how can one belief be more didactic than the other? I'll tell you why.
If you take the idea of saying Augustine of Hippo, an early theologian and Christian Church right who said, trying to understand the mind of God is like trying to pour the ocean into a cup. If you take the mortal and you know human limitations of the cognitive process of human beings. If we are talking about a deity or a thrust or something which is bigger than humanity. Then it would be you can't get something that big into something that small. It won't work. It's just just
doesn't work. So all you're saying is I believe that there is something there. Do I believe it's angry Santo on a cloud or you know, baby Jesus with swaddling clothes.
I don't go with any of that.
But there are aspects of all religions which I find in the same way you find about the UFO thing. I go, I'm going to take this a little more seriously because actually there's very very clever people who are not atheists, and that's kind of what drew me in.
And so I mean, you take C. S.
Lewis or Socrates or Albert Einstein or.
There's quite a lot of ready the cards. You know.
You know, there are people who are immensely clever and deep thinkers who steer the other way. And I'm in more claim to do that. So I don't see any.
View argument between the UFO interest and the interest in But I don't think atheism in anyways ever shut down me from examining the world in fact, in the world. I mean talking about exactly the existence of a deity beyond or over deity. Yeah, but I'm saying I I can be open to the idea that there is a deeper reality without it necessarily being connected to a God. Well, I think you have to define what God is? You know,
is a God? What is God? And at that point, you know, you know it's because you know, I tend to you know, I guess I you know, I'll go with Bertrand Russell over excellent.
Yeah, but atheist thinker, Yeah, a great atheist thinker, no doubt. But also at the same time you're working alongside C. S. Lewis, who was a great theist thinker, but the theists also, and the principal mathematica from Bertrand Russell very good. But is it the Narnia Chronicles. No, it's not, it's not. Yeah, it's fascinating. And you know what I do like is this. You're my friend and we can be on wildly opposing ends of this argument and enjoy the argument.
Yeah. C. S. Lewis, H. G.
Wells, wildly opposing ends of the argument. Friends, Yes, people now wildly opposing ends of an argument of belief.
God seem to be friends.
I don't understand it, I know, which is sad because how you fucking learned stuff?
There's nothing less interesting than agreement. Sadly, I agree, you've painted me into the corner. Yeah, but I mean I used to always you know, tell my kids, I said, I said, you know, I said, the only arguments you you learn from are the ones you lose, right, you know, like winning, I've learned a lot today, but like winning an argument is is about winning an argument, I know nothing more than I knew before, right, and also winning it. It's just a ludicrous idea.
Yeah, when an argument, When an argument, that's like winning a relationship.
Well, what the hell is that? I remember reading like Plato as a kid, right, and hilarious, But it was like realizing their conversations in in the dialectics Yep, sounded exactly like me and my friends hanging out. Yeah, I think that's the appeal is And I'm going, it's the same thinking, the same arguments, the same thoughts, the same interactions, And I'm going, that's just how it's going to be forever. That's just what it is to be human. Yeah, And
it's just going to be that way. Forever, and like you said, meaning the desire for meaning. Yeah, and and I believe, I mean, my belief still is that the human brain is incapable of perceiving meaninglessness unless you're suffering a severe brain damage or you are psychotic. And people who can perceive meaninglessness generally will either commit murder or suicide.
Yeah, it does sound like a despairing place to be.
And it's and it's something that ninety nine point the thousand nine percent of the population are incapable of anyway, right, we're incapable of it. Like I can't look at a table and not see a table. I can't do it. You know, you can drink past that, Oh I have.
Well, it's been a pleasure and will continue to be a pleasure for as long as we are able to do it.
Dave, Yes, Oh my god, it's so lovely running into you. It's great running to you. And let's let's do it again. And next time, let's talk more about God. Okay, No, let's talk less about God and more about drugs. Oh okay, all right, or maybe just do the same again. Yeah, psychedelics, I'll talk Oh man, I do not care for them. No, no, I never like psychedelics.
Oh Jesus, worst time in my life. I took acid like thirty something times just to make sure.
Yeah. Yeah, man, it was bad. It was bad from the first one again. Yeah, I like mushrooms. I would have took mushrooms once because I hated them so much. Oh my god, hated mushrooms. Do you still do the psyches? Yeah? Oh yeah, but there I'm Are you tripping right now? No, I'm actually having trouble getting psychedelics to work right now. I've tried to d MT twice and couldn't get it into work. Well, of course, we've run out of time. Listeners