Dr Umar Johnson (RETURNS) Breaks Silence on Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese, Andrew Shultz & Flagrant, Ryan Clark, Rg3,Shannon Sharpe , Piers Morgan & His Return to The Joe Budden Podcast

Yo, yo, yo yo. Welcome to It's Up There Podcast.

I am your active and attractive hosts for another episode of the fastest growing podcasts in the market. Right now, I do want to salute to each and every person that has clicked this video. We have one of my favorite people in the world back on this up There podcast. We are in high here in season two and we have my friend, my partner, doctor Umar Johnson.

How are you, my brother some in Pan Africanism.

Glad to be back in Nashville on Its Up There podcast.

Good to see you, my brother man.

I got a lot of love for you, and you know, always always position that first right because no matter our conversations is to learn it's for people to actually grab something from it, and a lot of the people enjoy it. I do see some of your fan base, which you have a rather large fan base, some of.

Them don't understand our dynamic.

They don't understand that sometimes I give you room to clarify position you know what I'm saying, and I try to push a little more for the peopure is necessary exactly, and so I just want to set that standard before we even move forward, that it's a lot of respect in this room between us and what we do here is for our people to actually get something from conversations rather than just sit down and have this powerwow and no one actually deposits anything or withdraws anything.

So I want to set that standard. First, how have you been up. I've been well, my brother, I've been well since the last time we connected. What has been going on well with regard to Frederick Douglas Marcus Govey.

Brother, we down to the doors and the floors. That's it.

Once we get that done, we'll be applying for certificate occupancy by the doors. What I mean by that is when we took over the building, we got everything rekeyed, but I didn't get the classrooms rekey.

So I'm working with a black locksmith.

He got to rekey every class you know, give me three copies mass the key, custodian key. I'm waiting on him now, so once he gives me an estimate of what this is going to cost. The doors. The other thing is the floors. So we had there's sixteen rooms in the school. There's more than sixteen, but we have sixteen that we got to either tie or carpet because we had twelve of them that had rugs in them, we had to take them out because you know, they

So we got about twelve that got to be covered.

The other four I want them to match the other rooms, so it's going to be sixteen. We did get to estimates from two commercial companies, pretty expensive, you know what I mean. They wanted about sixty g's to do them sixteen floors, and I'm like ouch. So I'm trying to see if I can work with some of my brothers, and as you know, we haven't had the best of luck with our brothers. But miraculously, coincidentally, one of the brothers out of Chester, PA contractor, he reached out. He

Yeahel you noticed that interview next thing? You know? Six months?

What? Yeah, I would say the one downside of speaking and traveling and interviewing, your life speeds up twenty four all a blur, Yeah, the life.

I'm like, the year's over.

Yes, So you know I learned that you got to keep your foot on the gas because if you don't fire another five years ago by, we still not open, you feel me? So we've been done except floora's doors and paint for yet.

Wow.

So technically this should have got done last year, but I'm not going to complain.

All things in divine toim in facts?

Do you feel as though you still have the same desires? The fire still burning? The fire still burn.

Sometime the fire go dim, right, you get discouraged, you know, but something always happens to bring you back. You know, I'm very heavy into my spirituality, so I do a lot of solitude. You know, in fact, when people ask me about romantic relationships, a big reason why I'm not in one is and our sisters are good people, right, but when you are on a political mission that has a spiritual foundation, sometimes women can adjust their life style

I can't do that right now. I got to get myself right again.

And so when I'm learning on the romantic side that when you date a sister, when you have a spiritual calling on my life, because although my work is political, it's spiritually based. You got to make sure you have a woman who can accommodate your mission, because a lot of women want to take you from your mission and put all of your attention on her. And don't get me wrong, you have needs and you have a right

You see what I'm.

Saying, I'm not the rapper, I'm not the actor, I'm not the comedian. I'm not the dancer. You know, I'm not the entertainer. I'm an activist. You're forgetting that, yes, you know what I mean. And so sometimes women can drain you even more.

Exactly, and it becomes more of a detriment to the balls than an addition to them.

And that's why the honor.

But Marcus Gorvey said, as much as I loved my wife, being married was a detriment to my work exactly because you got to constantly appease the queen. Yes and understanding, she got needs. But this is about the race, This is about the people. And if I got to constantly keep debating with you, pleading with you, explaining to you

A loon like me.

And see right now, me and you speaking of it is like it's and it gets harder. And I'm gonna tell you something.

I greatly undervalued the ability to find a partner on this level. Before I got to this level, I would assured you that.

Our boy to be boy, what is it? Peas and beautiful.

Cover girl or seid shit like man, we get money, we successful, We read, and we up earth.

We taking care of children. It's business being took care of. But as you get further and further, you see, oh, this is deeper than just a bed mate. It's a soul mate.

Soul mate.

It's deeper than that. It's sober than that. And so man, I definitely understand that. Let me ask you this, how long have you been on the road chasing this thing?

WHOA I'm going to say, I've always been into activism since elementary school. You know, blackshitt and Union president graduated, Garvey Movement, You and I a Philly. But if you sow the activism been there throughout life. But if you say on the national and international level, that would be since twenty ten, that would be with the Chicago interview September eighteenth, twenty ten and the Horror Lecture October thirty

I remember, Yeah, what's up on it?

Versus your boy Big Long and the G five just rolled in and we're clear for takeoff. You're locked in the season two of It's Up That podcast, the most prolific conversation engine in the culture. But here's the part of that that blows my mind.

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It's up that podcast, enjoy the show, let's get it. What for people who don't know a getting this grind? And you know what you've been doing? What receipts does that leave on a man's body?

Right?

Just moving that long, doing this mission on this goal, and you gotta constantly taking information to be updated as you are voice to our people.

Yes, what receipts does that leave on a man?

I would say the biggest cost is in the spiritual weight you got to carry. The biggest cost is in the lack of time you have to invest in the relationships you have, not romantic but just family, yes, social, you know, community, Yes, you're not there the way you want to be there, you know. And again I look at some of our great ancestors. Of course, brother Malcolm, we just celebrated his one hundredth on Monday. You know what,

And as you know, President Dwight D.

Eisenhower of the the US government ordered his assassination and they cut his body up into little tiny pieces like a cake bro and dissolved him in an acid. The only thing that remained was a tooth that his family just got back after more than fifty years.

Yes, sir, when was this?

This was he was assassinated January seventeenth, nineteen sixty one. Whoa. And it took out Malcolm for in fact, Malcolm often spoke of Lamomba. And I believe Malcolm's black glasses, the what we want to call them, the patent Malcolm X glasses, those were actually PATRICEA. Lamuma glasses, not that pair. But Malcolm wore the same, yes, yes, and I think he got it from him. I never heard him say that, but he wore the same glasses as like a nod.

And he kind of was the Patrice Lamoon Bright of Blackham. Right.

Also, brother, please don't record this whole thing, because of course you got to go to our heart.

Exclusivity is to our heart.

So we're going to get into some of the our heart stuff too, because they reached to Candice and for some reason.

We'll get to that the second.

So on your journey, you basically have to bury your relationships to keep the fire burning for the mission.

I wouldn't say bury, but I would say you are not able to. I guess the best language to use is invest in them the way that you want so they're still there, and when you have your free time, that's when you double down on that time.

Right.

But the bottom line is when you do this kind of a work, when you're serving the people, your universe, your satellites, they have to also appreciate your mission. Otherwise you become a hindrance to them. In other words, if you don't appreciate the mission, then it's best that we really don't seek to keep this relationship going as strong as it is, because you're going to see me as nothing more than a hindrance. Same thing romantically, because you

I know what this is about. I was ready for the end. Was you understand?

Because she was about it too, And when he got locked up, she kept the movement going. Most activists you get locked up, mission dies with you. Oh she ain't you feel me?

Yes?

She was only there because you was popular, which has been a big problem I've run into. I want to ask you, how do you shift through the women? You can tell, you can tell if the women are there for the mission energy. You could just tell the way they speak, the way they talk about your work. The best way to find out is to listen to the jokes, the things they say inadvertently, Oh, you off running to serve the people again. You know, anything sarcastic that lets

Yes? And some of that is due to the fact that the mothers became.

Voice dis enchanted over the fact, Yes, that they saw how their husbands gave their life to the people and the people did nothing for their family after they died. Think about that, Think about that that hurt. Don't think about that that uncom died, right, Betty struggled.

You see.

Now, King's children that may have had a little better because you had the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.

I'm sure they looked out Andrew Young and others.

Right, So Corretta probably had a little bit more, But it was still hard on them because they saw firsthand my husband gave his life goodness and y'all ain't even reciprocate at all to us.

Do you worry about that? Uh? Worry.

I'm gonna say no, and I'm gonna tell you why, because it's a given you didn't already seen it. You didn't already seen it. You see what I'm saying, So you didn't already see it. And that's why I tell people. And as I observe activists, I'm always telling them, brother Low and I'm like, listen, everybody who come to me talking about they want to do some work for the community. I got to study their political character, not they personal.

They looking like, I said, who is this guy? You know what I mean? And ill in love?

Right? And I love because you know, they think they got to know everything. They come over, who are you? I feel like I should know you. Listen to that though, I feel, why do you feel you need.

To know me? And then I say I'm just a psychologist. Then they still like, okay.

But first of all, they shot because they thought you was gonna say rapper or athlete. But even when you say psychologists, they like, well, psychologists, doesn't.

Make sense that reaction psychologists. You see what I'm saying.

And I just kind of leave it like that, because you never know who you're dealing with, Like the stewardess to ask you. I don't like to give them too much unless they black, right, because you might put some shit in my drink, you see, militant in that. Yeah, you got you, bro, You got to keep your head on the swip.

What I've always appreciated about you, whether you would getting millions of views or not, You've always understood the seriousness of your of your banter.

Of your rhetoric, of what your position is, of your mission.

And I think that's very important to see a black man militant. I was telling him earlier before you got here. I said, Umar is probably one of the only ones. And there's a lot of strong black men in the space, but you will not fold. No, and bro no trust me. Us us are the black men.

We say.

If they let on seeing then if they let him on, he's not fold Oh no, Sun, So don't sit in invite and that's why they ain't gonna send me.

You never see me on there. Now. I just got an invitation to be on pears Morgan got to be about to talk rit in just a second, you know, And.

I didn't accept it because I noticed with some of them, even though he's really popular, he got millions, don't bring me on there for no nonsense. And what I noticed, and I went through this a little bit with Fox Soul. No disrespect to Fox Soul, because they just reached back out to me I'm gonna give him another chance. But you don't take somebody with these kind of credentials and this type of following and this seriousness behind his work and put him on a panel with goofballs at all

Before. He and I have shared in ways maybe three times, right, Okay.

I turned down down interview right because I said, I am not going to go on this show. And this was live in studio, and I think he's in Florida too. I Am not going to go on this show and debate another black man, even though he is a coon for the entertainment of white people. See when he first reached out Loo and I'm thinking we're gonna have a conversation like us, We're gonna talk, go around the world and talk. No, I want you to debate jesse Lee Peterson.

I'm not doing and I appreciate you, I'm saying. On that matter of fact, let's get to peers. So Piers Morgan has been in the news or in black culture going viral right now, in particular for he was a panel Let me get the names right. I think it was I want to make sure I have these young the young lady, the young lady's names.

Uh, I mean I don't have the names.

Nonetheless, it was Piers Morgan, Mark Lamont, Heel marrin games from.

Freddy Clip right, and and so what we had.

What we had is Piers Morgan was in a scenario where he he asked for this young lady.

He invited her to say a racial slur.

People stand up for themselves. We're a labeled And by the way, you call people when you want them to stop talking about.

No, No, I called you because you admitted you were hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. I called just to be clear, I called you because you openly, proudly admitted your artist. So it wasn't the question of exposing you or pointing my finger or trying to get this out of you. You proudly sat there boulders bras. But yeah, I use the N word all the time against black people. I'm a racist and I'm proud of it. That's what you did.

Racism is just having a preference. I prefer not to live around black people. I prefer not to live in a country where white people in our country are disproportionately attacked by black people. Where in my country you can have an Austin Metcalf where he asks a guy to leave and he gets stabbed in the heart. I prefer that that's a preference. Now, what a real racist is, in my opinion, as seeing someone as less human. I'm a Christian. I believe everyone's creating God's image, so I

Because you've literally made black people sound lesser humans, you don't want to live around them, you want to use the N word in relation to them, a word that you know causes that community unbelievable fact, my fault is.

That my fault if they have bad behavior, if they want to act in a certain way, if I have to cross the street and be afraid that maybe because of the statistics that are very real. By the way, is that my fault or is that their fault for having bad behavior?

That's mind boggling to me for multiple reasons. I mean,

The people who are.

Defending this woman are saying, yes, we know you call it the five year autistic black child the in word, and we want more of it, we approve of it, we support it. These are not the same thing, and it's bonkers to me that we couldn't all stand and say, hey, it is wrong to call a five year old autistic black child.

The racial slur was in front of Mark Lamont Hill and another guy who's who's a black man. The other guy who's a black man, had a gun and he would press the trigger and it'll, it'll, it'll, put out a flag and say you're on it. During the interview doing it, I didn't see that part because they would blur out on certain platforms, they wouldn't let it, and so I wanted to ask you, what is your reaction to that clip of that situation. That is the exact type of situation that I don't want to be a

In anything, no community activism, no type of corporation that she's established, you know, no type of political resume, just a nobody. My thing is at least let it be someone who people listen to, you know what I mean, and listen to for serious opinion, not your shock value.

And that's what they'll do.

They'll they'll try to mix out greats with they bullshit and trade.

Yes, I'm not doing that.

And when he reached out to me, brother Loom, if memory serves me correctly, it was a week or two before that interview, so I believe he wanted me as a part of that because in the email that I got from his assistant, it specifically said that they wanted to discuss the fundraising behind our brother down in Texas.

Right, the young brother who ended his life.

Okay, and it's now facing charges and hopefully he will be victorious. We're gonna pray Mello, right, Carmelo Anthony. They wanted to discuss the fundraising between Carmelo Anthony and the Shiloh Hendricks I believe is her name. Yes, And I'm looking at this request and I'm saying, of all the things we can discuss, we want to talk about gofund me. I already knew it was nonsense, right, this is all you want to discuss with the UMAR, this fundraiser and

Did you see Mark Lamont heel's response to it where I thought he did a good job? Okay? Did ado.

He's receiving some backlash because because he this is what I say, this difference between what did he say and didn't next and I didn't see the old thing.

This is what he said.

So he says, here's Morgan advice the young lady to say that in we're go ahead and say it. Go ahead and say she said she no. Mark Lamont jumps in, Okay, I do not want you to tell her to say the N word in front of me, because I'm the only one up here that's gonna be. He was on the right track. Then he uttered, Piers, I know you don't mean any harm.

And then that's when and when that's when a lot of people were took him back because.

Why would you give him any out in that moment? He clearly is inviting this discourse. Why is he as the white man who's facilitating the conversation. And also even if he was there quiet, I would say he holds some responsibility.

Because he engineeredhographically.

But the fact that he was the one to say, go ahead, say it and then the hook, yeah, for you to let him off the hook?

Now, Mark Mark Lamont he a response to this and says, I only done that because I didn't want them to cut out the part where I where I told him do not allow her to say that, Well, it's like a strategic bag down.

I don't respect those right, like in that setting. Now if we're talking war and you know, other settings.

Great, but he received some backlash for basically letting Piers.

Morgan off the hook in that moment to that, what do you say?

Okay, I don't want to speak on that directly because I didn't see it. I'm going to give doctor Mark Lamonehill the benefit of the doubt.

Okay, do you want to see it, because we can show you the clip. I don't mind. I can take a look at it.

Take a look at it. You know, it could have just been human error. I'm hoping, you know, if that's the only thing that took place, it could have just been human error. I'm hoping it wasn't as egregious as what I saw the other day when President Donald Trump had a meet and greet interview with.

The President of South Africa.

I don't know if you caught that, but I was very disappointed in the way that President Ramapulsa of South Africa conducted himself with President Trump. I really feel that he allowed President Trump to drive the conversation.

And to see him meet. I didn't get the chance to win. We got to watch it.

I felt like he completely disrespected the South African people,

In his face, I would, I know you not say nothing back.

Really felt he dishonored all of the great South African leaders that have come before him.

You understand, no way Shakazulu was gonna do that.

You found no way, Chris Hani, no way, Steve Beeko, no way. Robert Sebukwe was going to sit in the White House understanding what the US government has done to Africa and sit there and let President Trump accuse you of being complicit in genocide when this country has financed genocide against different African populations throughout time. I really felt he did the South African people a disservice by letting Donald Trump treat him like he was a child.

That's what I'm talking about. So and I got respect from Mark lemanheiel. I think he's a scholar.

But what what what is that? Like? What is that like? What it's it's the coon chip?

And what I mean by that when you're raised and white public school, when you're raised in a black church that's filled with white Jesus images. We are conditioned from childhood brother Loom to serve and service Caucasians, and you have to become conscious of your subservience in their presence so you can work to undo it. Because what in effect, is happening in that moment with President Ramaposa, if this happened with doctor Mark lemon Hill, their unconscious takes over.

You feel me.

So if they say doctor Uma, we might have one or two whites in the room.

Cool, But I need you to know something.

I don't change my message, So make sure you understand that I'm not changing. Same thing. With the universities. Well, you know there's going to be white students in the audience. This is a predominantly white institution that's fine, but I don't change my message. Make sure they understand that.

And that's what it to us is so important because yes, you see these scholars that the smarter they get, it's like they lose the veracity that that black men have.

And I'm gonna tell you a big reason why there's a few fears associated with the black male ego. One fear is money. Unfortunately, we'll put cash above the honor that we should have in defending our people. Right right, I disrespect if I offend, because you're not disrespecting. If I offend this Caucasian, it might mess with my pocketbook.

I couldn't care less.

In fact, I tell people all the time one of the best things ever happened to me was growing up in the North Central Philadelphia ghetto, because once you taste poverty, you're not afraid of it.

Exactly.

You feel me exactly, I'll go back if I need again. You see what I'm saying. So that's number one, the loss of money. Another one is the loss of access to white space man, both in the media and in the social world. I'll give you an example, and I know we're going to talk about this later, but I want to give you an example, take Shannon Sharp, real Quick.

It's all about views.

Right, Financially, I think he still gets his contract. You know where he may lose. You know where Sean Puffy Combs may lose if he wins the case. They will ever again get invited to certain privileged white functions. And as a member of the black bourgeoise, having access to white's fanities.

Is sometimes worth more than the money. Yes, do you feel me?

Yes, getting invited to this, getting invited to that, going on these exclusive retreats with these billionaires.

You may never get that invitation again.

And so sometimes the black scholar not saying doctor Hill did this, but I've seen it done, so I know what you mean.

I'm going to compromise my people's truth.

I'm going to compromise my people's truth in this moment because if I get branded as a black man, think about that, if I get branded as a black man by the white man, I might lose opportunities to be around white people.

Yes, and that's kind of your only one up in a lot of black spaces.

Is that?

No? Know?

I be at the white party bingo because we value everything they do more than what we do. Exactly.

This is while we'll go to the bet Awards and we'll fight. Yes, we never fought that the grammaro.

Do you feel men? Will Smith slapped Chris Rock and they banding for a year? You feel me?

And I still don't know if he's allowed to go back. Now you're not gonna do that, yes, in white space, right, but you'll do it around yes.

Yes. Now let's take a look at this. I want you to look at it really quick. One second.

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Yes, do you feel me? Yes?

Getting invited to this, yes, getting invited to that, going on these exclusive retreats with these billionaires, you.

May never get that invitation again.

And so sometimes the black scholar not saying dot that he'll did this, but I've seen it done, so I know what you mean. I'm going to compromise my people's truth. I'm going to compromise my people's truth in this moment because if I get branded as a black man, think about that. If I get branded as a black man by the white man, I might lose opportunities to be

You feel me? And I still don't know if he's allowed to go back.

Now, you're not going to do that in white space, right, but you'll do it around Yes, Yes, Now let's take a look at this.

I want you to look at it really quick. One second half.

I want you to invite this woman to say a racially harmful terment on me because I'm the only I'm the only on here, so if she says it, I'm the victim of it. So please don't invite her for ratings to call me the inwork because that's basically what it's going to be. There's a bunch of white people up here, you and what one uncle Tom on the on the left ear and ask for her to say the N work while I'm here.

As ridiculous.

You would not sit here with a Jewish person and say, please use a Jewish slur in front of the Jewish. It's ridiculous. I understand you don't have any bad in tip Piers. I understand what you're trying to do. I don't want to invite a racial harm to.

Me, and I accept that. I'm gonna leave it there, Thank you all very much.

Now, I didn't hear him say what you said.

Okay, it might be another speak because I appreciate what doctor Hill said.

There. He stood his ground.

Ok here we go.

Oh no, that's not it. Hold on, he's definitely said it. But uh well, yeah man, this is this.

Is and he addressed it. He actually addressed the fact that that it blew up online and people like yo, you saying why.

Would you say labeled a racist him by the way, this is a long racist. When you want them to stop talking about.

No, no, I called you a racist because you admitted you are racist.

You can get a respect.

Hang on, hang on. I called just to be clear, Just to be clear, I called you a racist because you openly, proudly nitted.

You're a racist.

So it was a question of exposing you or pointing a finger or trying to get this out of you. You proudly sat there, bold as brass and said, yeah, he's the one.

All the time.

I guess black people, I'm a racist and might proud of it. That's what you did.

This is a racism is just having a preference. I prefer not to live around black people. I prefer not to live in a country where white people in our country are disproportionately attact by black people growing my country. You can have an Austin Metcalf where he asked the guy to leave and he gets stout of in the heart. I prefer that that's a preference. Now, what a real racist is, in my opinion, is seeing someone as less human. I'm a Christian. I believe everyone's creating a buzz image,

How is that a bad thing?

How is that not just a preference?

Because he literally made black people sound less of humans.

You're able to live around them, You.

Want to use the nation to them a world that you know causes that community unbelievable.

That my fault.

Is that my fault if they have bad behavior, if they want to act in a certain way, if I have to cross the street and be afraid that maybe because of the crime statistics that are very real, by the way, is that my fault or is that their fault for having bad behavior?

It's it's it's it's mind.

I want to live in a country where people are allowed to say what they want unashamedly, and you can.

You will go on and say it. You will not have gone say go on, say the N word.

Go on, No, no, no. I don't want you to invite this woman to say a racially a hartful term for me, because I'm the only I'm not only on here. So if she says that, I'm the victim of it, so please don't invite her for ratings to call me the N word, because that's basically what it's going to be. There's a two white people up here while I'm here as ridiculous. You would not sit here with a Jewish person and say, please use a Jewish slur in front

Harm to me, and I accept that. I'm gonna leave it there. Thank you all very much of it.

We approve of it, we support it.

These are not the same thing, and it's bonkers to me that we couldn't all stand and say, hey, it is wrong to call a five year old autistic black child the N word.

Okay, damn. So it must have been in the other one. You may you may just missed this. That's happening.

This is not a standalone statement, and that's why people felt like it was a slippy jest to appease the man.

Okay, yeah, yes, so it was. When he would say, don't you just say any way? It was dead.

It wasn't a just in other words, you should have checked him for even inviting her to say it. But he did say, don't have her say that. But what you're saying is he also said, I know you don't mean no harm, so I'm holding I'm not holding you accountable for the fact that you actually invited her to.

Say and that line actually blew up, and he responded to it, and he said, again it was a strategic move on his part, but I don't compromise my integrity. You can't for a strategic move for the white folks. And so that's he responded to it. So, but but we'll move on from that. Let me ask you this, because I know that Joe Budden podcast is somewhere where you go, you do a lot of views that I'm of the belief and a lot of my fans are of the belief that we were very, very instrumental in

Right. It ain't just because for me, I feel as though our dynamic kind of changes the way that people deal with you, right in regards to.

Umar is an intellectual.

He invites this, he invites, make me clarify, make me stand on it, because I'm gonna tell you why it makes sense.

Yes, sir, you know, and I believe in those moments you shine so so bright that even in your twenty fifth hour, it still brings in.

More new people.

When absolutely, yes, yes, absolutely are you. Are you prepared to go.

And do the twenty v one on Joe Bunden's podcast at this point.

Uh, I didn't know he was interested in the twenty v one. That's what is.

If you go to Joe Budden's podcast, they have Mark lamont Hill there to combat you on your way there.

Right, But I thought twenty v one was when you pop. I mean, I mean twenty b one just twenty versus Yeah, you know, let's just talking about so Drake rephrased that when when the Kendrick thing was happening, when everyone seemed like they were going there, Drake, he was like, oh he caught it twenty one. I got so now, So now I just kind of playing on that to say, yo, Umar, the next time you go to Joe Budden, it's definitely.

Gonna be a alliance.

Then I see what you're I see what you're saying. I'm always ready. You know, sometimes because of things people might say or do that I don't agree with that, I take his slights, I might not necessarily agree to have those people present sometimes, right, so I have to look at who the team is and I'm like, okay, let's do it. But I'm like, you know what, he kind of did something I appreciate. Then I might exclude

Do you feel like people are Do you feel like you abolve the undermind and even though you see it right, it's almost like a skull despite the file.

Do you I'm cool with the political undermining. In other words, me and lun are about to have a conversation about something, and I know he fundamentally disagrees with me on this point. I'm good because we keeping it politicalactly, But if somebody said, well, you know, Loon had to say this about you when you were and I'm like, ah, you just cut me in the back.

Can't do it now, you see what I'm saying.

It's one thing if it's a political disagreement, it's something else when you're actually trying to make me look bad off camera or trying to put some of my business.

Out in the street that shouldn't be there.

Then it becomes now do you think that, like, let's just say you do go six people, won Oumar, You probably are gonna be the one standing on you know, you.

Have your beliefs and you don't fold. This is why we love you, you know what I'm saying.

So I think they can kind of anticipate certain things that you're gonna stand on and kind of develop a.

Strategy or a I can see that, right.

That's kind of common though across platforms. But I'll say this though, at the Joe Button podcasts, even though they stood on their squarz, I also felt they was very respectful of my positions though, Like, even though we went at it, even me and issue on the store Buddy then we went at it, But at the end of the day, it felt like all loving it. Like when I left, I didn't that there was any animosity with anyone.

Okay. If you notice your.

Interview never came out for a long time on YouTube, word is in the industry behind the scenes that it was upwards of tens twenty thousands of new subscriptions, which is a so it's a substantial amount of money, right, And so that value you bring, that dynamic you bring is always social valuable and I just want you to know that, which I know you know. But again, the debate style thing they've done with you came from what

And I know you invite the discourse.

But yeah, man, you brought a lot of value to that platform, and I just wanted to know, you know, moving forward, how you felt about going on now.

Oh, I didn't mind. I'm looking forward to the return. Okay, great, Yeah, they alright with me? Yeah, Now, I really enjoyed it. It was a good conversation, great conversation. Now, Pierce Morgan, is that off the tape. It depends on what he wants to talk about and who he wanted to talk about it with. In other words, if that would have been me on that panel, I would have kind of felt like it was a waste of my time. You follow me because that other brother who was up there

Me about a year or two and I didn't go.

And the reason I didn't go is right before I received their invitation, somebody sent me a clip of a black woman, young sister who was on a panel, and they got into a disagreement or an argument. I don't know, was it a fist they actually they put their hands on that girl. Yeah, like physically removed. So when I saw that, I couldn't. It's one thing to say I don't want to date black women, completely disrespectful for black

I need some new doctor Umar.

So to your point, I do know that my supporters are waiting for the next interview, you know what I mean. So my thing is I gotta be conscious of that. I'll give it to you. Like I probably turned down at least a dozen podcasts because I felt that you have made a crystal clear that you don't respect black people if they're Caucasians. Right, Andrew Sharks or somebody should he wanted me. Somebody sent me a clip where he shared him with Shannon Shop.

I don't want to get it wrong.

I don't want to misspeak about the man, but I think it was a conversation he had with him and Shannon Sharp or somebody where he kind of said something disrespectful about black women. I forget what it was, but I do remember in the moment, I said, that was a bit too far.

I can't go on that platform. You'll shows have always had this.

Funny relationship because he's all I don't know him, right, but because my time on the Breakfast Club, because him and Charlemagne have a podcast together, right, so he Charlemagne was the first one to say, you know, he wants you on there, and I said okay, but he got to pay, right. So then finally when they came to me and say okay, we'll pay, I'm like, all right, I might do this. And then I see the clip with him and Shannon or maybe with somebody on his show.

I forget where it was.

But he said something disrespectful about black women, and I said, because what he said, in my opinion, cut too low. If you cut too low, I'm not bringing you my listening audience.

I'm not saying you need it.

You're already doing fine, but you're not gonna have the benefit of minds too.

And you disrespected my community and and and and you know, both things together is what makes the explosion.

Right.

You need wal I mean, you need heat and cold to make Caitlin Clark and Andrews. Yeah. Yeah, so when they when those mashups are way more powerful than just how are we doing another episode this week?

No?

Right, Umar and Andrew Schultz would be a moment. Yeah, It's like that's a moment. And he verse, right, he said they didn't pay their guests. I said, you really think? You really think?

Doctor Umar E five to day the number one black scholar in the world. Number one Pan African is it ain't even close. Well, number two Pan African. It's because I'm gonna give number one to President Iberhem Tree or they of Burkina Fossil. Right, So the number two Pan African is number one in the West. And you think I'm gonna give you a conversation that we know going to go viral, Oh my god, that you know you're going to get paid on a bunch of money, and you think I'm coming for free.

That's why.

But guess why the expectation is that is because the other black scholars in those positions that you are in will charge us and go to the white man for free, not me. In fact, you got to pay more, you understand, That's why we laugh. Most of the podcasts I've turned down have been white and they've offered nice amounts, but I can't do it because I've seen you say and do things that to me was too deep of an aspect of disrespect that would allow me to sit down and have that conversation.

So do you think Schultz is racist? I believe all white people are racist, So that's not the question. The question is do I think Schultz is a bigot right.

Yes.

Racism is what complete controlling domination for your group of resources, opportunities, and privileges are OPI that's it. It has nothing to do with how I feel about loan. It has nothing to do with how I feel about doctor Umar. You understand I want white people to have the advantage always when it comes to resources, opportunities, and privileges.

It's not personal. It's business, the business of political, economic control and domination. That's all racism is. Bigotry is when you bring in that emotional component. Bigotry is where you made it personal. Bigotry is when you say I.

Not only want to have I not only want white people to dominate the resources, opportunities and privileges. The reason I want them to dominate is because I think black people are monkeys. I want them to dominate because I think they are inferior. I want them to dominate because I think God invented them to be our slaves. You see that that's bigotry. Racism ain't personal. Bigotry is Wow, it shows to bigot I don't know. I don't want to misspeak on them.

Yeah, because I know I don't know him well.

But I've been in his presence a couple times, you know, me and Charlamagne has business together with Alheart. So I've been on Brilliant Idiots and I've been I've been in this in his vicinity.

I don't think he's racist, but I don't know what's going on with him. Oh right, your definition of racism I understand, So I can't.

Did you say you don't think he's biggest.

I think he's bigger to yes, but that's still that's for you too, damn. And and that's for you to distinguished as it pertains to your feelings, that approach to how you gather your information.

You know what I'm saying. And let me say this to you.

A big reason why I haven't been on these popular white podcasts is because I understand racism and how it operates. No matter what you learn from me, you're not going to change your ways because there's no Caucasian on Earth that's going to abdicate their white privilege.

So black people can get a fair opportunity.

So for me, it's almost a waste of time to have a conversation about race and racism with white people because you're never going to change. Yes, you do not change racism, you destroy it. You see that. So when I sit back and I get these invitations from these white podcasters, I know what y'all want to talk about.

Y'all want the doctor Umar shock moment, and y'all willing to pay me for it.

That's all right, But at the end of the day, I value my time and for me to sit down and have conversations about race and racism with people who are never gonna stop being racist is a waste of my damn times.

Effect.

I have nothing to prove to Caucasians, and that's what I'm telling you.

Man.

That and a lot of people talk I can I feel that coming, Yes sir, Yes, sir. And that's the difference I would say between you and a Mark lemont Hill, right, is because in those moments, I just don't end my heart. I don't see you excusing that behavior on any level. I'm not even Joe Black. You can't say if he did, but I'm not even his. He works with Joe Budden at this point. Even his boss, Joe Budden came the next day and kind of got him online.

Are we good? Is what? Okay?

Switching to Tennady because it probably, Uh, it probably was that. So switching to Tennady, this is still going, so we'll keep moving. So Joe Budden actually came and kind of had a conversation with him on the next episode and he told him, He's like, why are you even own Piers Morgan.

You're on Joe Budden's podcast.

Now.

This is Joe talking to him.

Like saying that, hey, our platform is huge, we got a lot of people listening.

You're smoking right now, You're viral here, viral there. Why go there? And he was like, why should it?

Because in Mark Lamont Hill, I did have a problem with him going though, because I do recognize the need to sometimes clarify who we are, and that's what I'm in white space. Yes I wasn't. I'm not against him doing it, so it's okay to do it, but just standing on the business stand on the business and for me, I'm going to pick and choose what white space is I'm going to go in, you know what I mean.

You feel me.

Because I know you ain't going to change who you are. White people have never changed, never will you understand? So I know that, but at least let it be serious. But for me to come on your program, just for you to try to make a mockery of my way of life and what I'm living and dying for, it can get real personal, real quicks and I don't want to subject myself to it because at the end of the day, anybody will look me in the face and say, you knew what you were walking into.

Why did you walk into it exactly? Are you familiar with the Ryan Clark and RG three forth? This happened?

I am Ryan Clark and RG three, Ryan Clark and RG three.

Here's where I am.

So as we know, Kitlyn Clark's team was playing Angel Reese's tea and that was a hard file. Kitlyn Clark made a hard file. I saw the folk. I definitely thought it was unnecessary because I saw how she kind of pushed her a little bit.

I saw it it was on purpose.

I think Kitlyn Clark still arbors some animosity towards Angel Reese because Angel Reese still won the national championship so even when people saying Kaitlyn is the better player, you believe she still hates Angel Reed. Of course, because Angel Reese prevented Caitlyn Clark from getting an n c double A Women's National Championship.

That matters. Yes, do you feel me? That matters?

And Angel Reese is the reason Caitlyn Clark is not an nc double A champion. Angel Reese is an NCUBA champion.

Have your actual achievements in your profession. You see what I'm saying.

So, doctor Umar may be very popular in the community, but I also have my achievements as a school psychologist.

You see there's a difference there.

So somebody can say, you might be more popular than me, but you ain't save more children from the school to prism pipeline. In me, I can say I'm more popular than you, and I save more children from the school to prison pipe.

You understand. So Caitlyn Clark can always throw in Angel Reese's face, I'm more popular than you.

White people have made me the face of the league, right, yes, And Angel Reese can say that's fine, but I still got this and you don't, and I got it on your time.

Do you see that? Do you see that?

Because you got to understand the narcissism that is at the heart of the collective white personality. They're not supposed to lose the black people ever cooking. Now, let's go to this. First of all, I think it is such hypocrisy for white people and the nigroes who serve them like RG three, to try to turn Angel Reese into a perpetrator of a crime when she was the victim. Here once again, they have made Caitlyn Clark the victim. She committed the file. Yes, they made her the victim.

This is how white America operates.

Even when black people are victimized, you're somehow responsible for it. They made Angel Reach responsible for the hard Fire by Caitlin Clark. Now let's get the RG three and Ryan Clark. RG three does a podcast a couple of days ago, and with his white wife in the background, sitting there like a slave master supervising her slave on a plantation. With his wife in the background, RG three proceeds to insult, denigrate, incriminate, and insult and belittle Angel Reese.

He mocked her using.

Stereotypical, exaggerated black ghetto behavioral demonstrations, talked about how she hates Angel Reese.

He said, excuse me, Angel hates Katelyn Clark.

He said, blatantly, Angel Reese hates Caitlyn Clark, and I know this.

Excuse me. RG three Angel Reese hates Caitlyn Clark. How do you know this.

I'm a psychologist and I can't read nobody mind. I tell people all the time, I'm not a psychic. I'm a psychologist. Difference, I can't read your mind. I can analyze what comes out of it, but I can't read it. RG three became a psychic in front of his Snowbundy, telling the world.

That I can't read Angel Reese's mind.

First of all, even if you were a psychic, you didn't been around snow Bunny's too long for you to even understand black women. First of all, he was already married to a snow bunny, That's what Ra said, got a divorcee. She eating on the first snowbunny with the current Snowbudy. So you went from snowbunny to snow bunny. And then you got the audacity to try to be little a black woman to make your white wife feel

I'm gonna call him RG two.

I'll call him RG three when he get divorced and get a third snow bunny. So he's RG two, two snow bunnies, RG two, right, yeah, yeah, And then you got her in the background showing the world how proud I am to be married to this white woman.

See that. First of all, you know my position.

Yeah, black men who date and marry white women wish they were white themselves.

Let's just keep it a buck. You're talking about a group.

Of people who have historically and systemically devalued, dehumanized, and destroyed, destroyed African life and culture, and you want to marry one of them. To marry a Caucasian is to play for their team and fight for their army. To marry a Caucasian is to play for their team and fight for their army. And then RG three, like a coward, Like a coward, he comes back at Ryan Clark. And he says, you hip below the belt. When you brought my family in this loom, he didn't bring his family

Look at this.

Ryan Clark is wrong for reminding me I married two white women. But I'm not wrong for disrespecting Angel Reese. Do you think on the internet, do.

You think that him saying you went too far bringing my family and is him signaling to ESPN?

Of course, because he said ESPN. He said this is not a good look for ESPN. See he said, I'm y'all. I'm I'll see me.

Man's standing enough for white folks now.

He is a house Nigro. And don't get me wrong, Back when he played for the Broncos, excuse me, the Red Skins, I believe it was Mike Shanahan I believe unfairly cut RG three's career short when he made him go out there and play while he was injured. I don't know if you remember that. I think he was not fully recovered right because he was a damn good

I think it was wrong.

So the brother's career was cut short by racism because they would have never done that too, Like why would he not say I'm not going out till I'm healed, Like the white man can make you go out knowing that you're not healed.

Depends on the politics of that situation.

You don't think I wouldn't have done Tonio Brown took your shirt obviously, and I'm out of here.

Right, But at some point to point it comes back to whether or not you're willing to compromise your black masculinity. A big conversation that we as black men need to have with each other without our women around, is when are we going to start compromising our black masculinity for money? When are we going to stop compromising our black masculinity to get access to snow Bunny Kuchi? When are we going to stop compromising our black masculinity to get jobs?

When are we going to.

Stop compromising our black masculinity to access privileged white spaces? You feel me because black men, unlike any other men in this country, and understand why, because we're more under attack, we compromise our masculinity too much, too much. And for RG three to sit up there, to sit up there and say, this is a bad look for ESPN.

Why are you bringing that man's job into this.

That's crazy, his podcast, your podcast, your private podcast, his private podcast, and you're going to bring his job in it. So you said, because he reminded you you married two white women, he's supposed to lose his job, but it was okay for you to disrespect angeuries. Look at the difference. Don't even mention a white woman. Don't even mention a

And this is what I'll say to that.

I don't know him personally, and I don't know his background well, but from what I've seen, Ryan Clark is one of the more racially conscious sports commentators we have. Stephen A goes back and forth. Sometimes steven A stand hard and other times he will sing out, you follow what I'm saying. So I believe that when Ryan Clark made that beautiful child right, he was not politically speaking who he is now.

I believe he had to evolve.

Yes, And as I've said before, and I don't know if you and I had this conversation, but as I've said before, if a black man commits an offense against the race, such as bunny hopping, but you learn from it and you self correct, and you promised to know,

And if that is the case, if he.

Is completely completely healed from the snow Bunny crisis, he has a right to speak on it. Because Ryan Clark's wife ain't white RG three, she black, right, Yeah, and then it's true. Hey check these cameras too, sir, make sure that's still going.

Also, I want to talk about this because there's a growing concern with me that I'm noticing, Like because now I have a community, right with this podcast and all of this, So sometimes I go in there and I speak with the community. I went in there and there's this constant conversation about interracial dating, and it's you. As you know, it gets a lot of traction online. People are interested in why is it divided or why is

They abandon all understanding and love that they had for black women, even their mother.

Right, It's almost like the way that they speak about black women after they now are dating white the way that they feel women keep them away in the I heard one guy say something that highly offensive, keep the.

Dirty mouth black women away from it.

And I'm like, your mother is black, how did you abandon the love, the nurture that she gave you?

What happened in that process?

As a psychologist, what is your outlook on black men getting with white women and abandoning all understanding and love that they had for even a black mother.

There could have been trauma from the mother in some of them circumstances. Sometimes the trauma can be so acute that the pain forces you to go into a completely different direction. That's very true. My mother abused me, My mother sexually assaulted me. My mother allowed other people to abuse me, sexually assault me. My mother was emotionally unavailable. Trauma can do that, But even in trauma loom, there is still self hate involved because you know what white people have done.

To you and continue to do to you.

You understand, no snow, Bunny How is ignorant of the fact that white people have been the greatest enemies of African people. Nobody is ignorant to that. So because remember now, although I don't support you going to the a rap I don't support you going to the Asian, I don't support you going to the Indian or the non African Latino. Those were still options for the Bunny Hopper. You chose white on purpose, you see. So in choosing white, you're

Smith because steven A.

Smith responded to the RG three Ryan Clark situation, and I thought he gave a pretty reasonable and leveled critique. But where I'm going to disagree with my brother stephen A.

Smith.

And I know he had to say this because he got a bag to protect, right, he told Ryan Clark, don't bring up his wife and children. He didn't. He just reminded him that they were white. And steven A. Smith said this too, right, right, But stephen A. Smith kind of stated or alluded to the fact that his wife being white has nothing to.

Do with it. You're wrong, steven A. Smith.

You're wrong that man's wife being white has everything to do with this situation. Because he's disrespecting a black woman while sleeping with a white one.

It has everything to do with it.

You can't say a snow buddy Hopper is publicly disrespecting a twenty three year old black girl, young black sister. It has nothing to do with the fact that he's married to white women. It has everything to do with the fact that he married two white women. And Ryan Clark has a right to speak on it because he's a recovered bunny.

Hopper no longer participate.

Do you think that what was his logic behind why it's irrelevant personally.

I just think he was protecting his job because you got to remember something with our celebrities and entertainers. And I respect Steven it because, like I said, sometimes Stephen Gohall, sometimes he coons out, but he's better than most.

He's better than most. Some don't even touch it.

Steven A. Smith will at least touch it. So I got to give the brother some respect in the white world. And for you to survive in it, you have to assume a racially ambiguous, a racially ambiguous attitude towards all political issues.

It's a tight rope, you understand.

It's a tight rope and the reason why people are trying to call for Ryan Clark's job. And I do want to support Stephen A. Smith in standing up for Ryan Clark. He said, this many is gonna lose his job. A powerful voice over there.

Yeah, Steven A. Smith said, I'm going to raise Holy Hell.

I'm not in charge, but I'm gonna raise Holy Hell if anybody tries to fire this man for telling the truth about this man.

So shout out to Steven A.

Smith for taking his brother's back on that okay, But because you have to act politically naive in order to be a successful black entertainer that includes sports, you have to assume a political naiva tanne in the face of obvious injustice.

Think about that, Loan, You sitting on him, Oh man, you.

Sitting on the panel on TV and the police just unlive somebody RG three, Just disrespect that your little sister Angel Reese with his slave master handler.

Oversee a slave dr in the back? You anymore with the wet loon, she had a whip, whippity, what pity, tear it down. Tear it down.

But guess what you have to act like him having a white wife has nothing to do with this. You have to assume this posture of political naivena. You have to commit. You have to commit historical amnesia every time you go to work. Loan will think about that.

Every time I go to work, I gotta act like I.

Don't know what my people have been through, because if I show the slightest political integrity or cultural loyalty, I can.

Lose my dereath. Go y'all.

This is why Lebron James stood with Israel against Paliestine but did nothing when that brother was shot dozens of times in Akron, Ohio. Jalen Walker got hit with almost one hundred bullets by the white police, and all Lebron James said is I gotta pray.

I gotta pray.

But when Israel invaded Palistine, it started unliving all those people over there. You stood with Israel because as a black entertainer, if you want to be successful in white space, you have to commit his historical suicide.

Every boys cooking the day you got so okay.

So bag to and see here's the thing though, real quick, go ahead.

Now that the white man knows Ryan Clark is not only politically conscious, they're not upset about you being politically conscious.

Stephen A.

Smith is politically conscious, but Ryan Clark is loyal as well. Yeah, the Lord, it's the loyalty. Ryan Clark's comments made it clear, I'm a black man.

Fire yeah, because the Lord informs your decision making.

Yes. So now the white man is like, damn, he's politically conscious like Stephen A. But he's more loyal to black people. He'll move on he'll move on him. So now Ryan Clark, he's not going to lose his job. But once again, there will be certain opportunities he may not get now because the power structure knows you staying with the negroes in the field, not the.

Ones in the house. Yeah yeah, yeah.

And so also getting back to the community that when I went in and they was talking about, you know, the dirty mouth or just like you said, some of the historical overreaches that they use as it pertains to black women, it just doesn't feel like trauma driven to me because the particular things that they will point out, meaning because you know me, I like to have a conversation, what are you saying?

What is that?

Like? I'm highly upset and you're about to get kicked out of here.

But before I kick you out, what is that like?

Why are you talking about black women in this way in any instances? Like you say, even if honest, that means, even if it's the truth, Why is this even coming out of your mouth when your black mother took care of Because you are proving that you are politically harmless to white folks. See, the white woman for the black man is the political surrender flag loon. When I walk into a space with a white woman, I'm letting every white person know I am not loyal to my community.

I'm not loyal to my mother. I'm not loyal to my father.

I'm not loyal to my neighbors, the children I went to college with. I am loyal to you. The white woman is the black man's nonverbal mouthpiece. By having her next to you, you are making a political statement to the world that I am loyal to the white power structure. Yeah, and so I asked, I'm like, yo, what is man? I don't like they talk too much, they argue too much. I don't listen. Black women love me. I love black women.

You're just using her as the excuse for why you are there.

We've all been mistreated before by women, period, but I never abandoned on you. You understand you wanted white women anyway. You're just choosing black women as the excuse. And this is how I explain it. Who has mistreated the black man more a black woman or the white man. There is no black man in America who can say I've been mistreated more by black women than white man. You a damn lot who locked you up, whoms educated, who

Why you don't have the same smoke for him.

Yeah, and that's why you don't have the same smoke for America that you have for the black woman. If it's purely about how you've been treated, you should be way more angry at white men than black women as a whole. Fast it's because you love white people, and having sex with that white woman is the way you try to psychologically prove to yourself that you're equal to her white man, and an escapegoat is look, Stephen, a excuse me. Shannon Sharp and Terrell Owens said, when I

Are responsible for how they are.

They say, I like the white woman because she's passive, she's dicil, she's feminine, she's supportive. She don't she allows me to lead. You know why, because she don't need you for anything. Idiot, The white woman needs nothing from the black man. Let me say it again. The white woman needs nothing from the black man. Let me say it one more time. The white woman needs nothing from the black man. And when she's tired of you, she just accuse you of rape or get a divorce and

Thirteen year old boy. Yeah, you're gonna.

Pay her twenty five thousand dollars before I ask cheek. She don't even have man. She looked like she needed to be passing somne. And then they got the nerd to be calling black women gold diggers. Well, if black women are the gold diggers, loom, show me a OnlyFans model, Show me a black OnlyFans model who are about to get twenty five thousand dollars a cheek and them sisters got fat ass.

They's worth you feel me?

You talk about set up, They got to set up body and they not getting twenty five granded cheak. I'm looking at this white girl, ain't got no backside, and you about to give a twenty five granded cheek. Because it wasn't about the body. It wasn't about the look. It was the craven.

It was about the color of the flesh.

This is about whiteness. I want proximity to a whiteness. Do you think, Shannon Close? I am to white people, the better I feel about myself. So you think Shannon Shaw, because because I sometimes think that it's the activity, you don't find an odd that the brothers who go the most for the white girls tend to be the darker brothers.

Yeah, I definitely find it.

And I'm saying this as a dark skinned brother and look at him. Don't get me wrong. You get light skinned brothers and mixed race brothers. They got a white mother. We understand not acceptable, but we understand. You get light skinned brothers who only day white.

But in my.

Experience, my dark skin brothers, they go crazy over snow bunny vagina. They go crazy over snow bunny, but activate some get RG three.

You just got a divorce and went in white stuff.

Another funny self hatred brother. There's a book France for Nan I never know. I don't know if you heard of him. He was from Martinique. He's one of our greatest black revolutionaries. They murdered him not too long after they murdered doctor King. They had to get him out the way because he was serious. He was a psychiatrist. He wrote a book called Black Skin, White Mass. Every snow Bunny Hopper needs to read Black Skin, White Mass. And guess what. But he had a snow bunny. But

Wow.

And that's why I don't trust black men who date white women at all.

Ever, never you go home to my enemy and you.

Don't think I know, you telling how what we just talked about, because you got to remember the black man knows he's always at the mercy of her